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are men 2nd class citizens on child custody
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"I agree all dads should see there kids, but what the Op says is not the case most of the time. Both kev and myself have been through court with our kids so have experience from both sides. If the child is no danger of mental or physical harm a father will get access to there kids. kat " well my ex had me barred from seeing my kids for 2 years in which time she put them in care,for 2 years i couldnt even ring my kids so i went to england,and while there she put them in care,made allegations against me to kops and social workers,the lot,i fought everyone of them when i found out that she had done all this,now the kids live with me and julie,and they see theyr mum,for 2 hrs every friday,when she can be bothered to show up,,,,, kids are still in care of the state but live with us full time,its a long hard fight,and plenty of arguments with judges social workers etc,but worth it cause at the end of the day,they are my kids,,,and that to me is worth more than anything in this world | |||
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"as a divorced father of two young children i count myself lucky that i have no access problems when it comes to seeing them. even though me and my ex still have our ups and down she is aware that whatever our problems the children shouldn't suffer. i see them every weekend without fail and as often as possible during the holidays. my heart goes out to not just the fathers who have problems getting access to their children but also to the mothers out there that have to bring up their children without any help from absent fathers. " Lovely to hear your ex is not making it difficult to see your kids. My ex and I had our ups and downs to start, our kids are 19, 23 and 28 and can have mum and dad in the same room without war breaking out. It makes a difference I think to how they develop. | |||
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 I do believe that my son probably struggled as to what was the right thing to do given his fathers behaviour towards me (and them) when they were young but was as upset as his sister, and organised a Charlton Athletic football shirt for him and his sister to wear at the funeral, complete with Dad 1 on it, it hangs on his wall along with the poems they wrote
I personally think that most women that bar the father from seeing the kids, do it out of spite, for their own selfishness. Its not nice, children have 2 parents, it takes 2 people to make a baby not one. Whats worse is the psychological effect it has on the kids, i know ive been there. Whilst i saw my dad whenever i wanted, my mothers behaviour leading up to the split, taking me and my brother away whilst my dad was at work, will live with me forever, it made me feel like i did something wrong. And the "stepfather" wasnt the nicest of people either but thats another story
My daughters boyfriend has a child with another woman, he has had to fight through the court to see her, won a 2 hr visit once a month, at a special place unsupervised because of the lies this dreadful girl (pushed and bullied by her mother) has said. He is not any of the things she has said at all.
I think the court should take more notice, and investigate more when there is a custody battle, rather than just give custody automatically to the mother. Lets face it, judging by a comment from someone above, they are not always the best person and ive met someone who had exactly the same, all three boys live with him, she never bothers with them and they dont even know where she lives now | |||
"..... sorry but thats just rubbish, ....... but soon as it goes thro court that changes" No it isn't rubbish! No it isn't "as soon as" - It can take years (7 in my case) and a hell of a lot of my own money (won't say how much cause it might make me cry again! ) to win the court case, prove her to be a liar and still the mum can stop the kids from seeing you and the courts do nothing to punish her, cause she's their mum! | |||
"as a divorced father of two young children i count myself lucky that i have no access problems when it comes to seeing them. even though me and my ex still have our ups and down she is aware that whatever our problems the children shouldn't suffer. i see them every weekend without fail and as often as possible during the holidays. my heart goes out to not just the fathers who have problems getting access to their children but also to the mothers out there that have to bring up their children without any help from absent fathers. " It's nice to hear a positive outcome on this. I separated with my wife last year and we have no issues regarding our son, we are lucky to still be good friends and realise that he comes first. 
I really do feel for fathers (or mothers for that matter) who don't get to see their children. | |||
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"..... sorry but thats just rubbish, ....... but soon as it goes thro court that changes No it isn't rubbish! No it isn't "as soon as" - It can take years (7 in my case) and a hell of a lot of my own money (won't say how much cause it might make me cry again! ) to win the court case, prove her to be a liar and still the mum can stop the kids from seeing you and the courts do nothing to punish her, cause she's their mum! "ive had the same problem | |||
"..... sorry but thats just rubbish, ....... but soon as it goes thro court that changes No it isn't rubbish! No it isn't "as soon as" - It can take years (7 in my case) and a hell of a lot of my own money (won't say how much cause it might make me cry again! ) to win the court case, prove her to be a liar and still the mum can stop the kids from seeing you and the courts do nothing to punish her, cause she's their mum! "If a mother or father breech a court order the court can issue community service and even prison if its a repeat offence, so no the courts don't do nothing. | |||
"..... sorry but thats just rubbish, ....... but soon as it goes thro court that changes No it isn't rubbish! No it isn't "as soon as" - It can take years (7 in my case) and a hell of a lot of my own money (won't say how much cause it might make me cry again! ) to win the court case, prove her to be a liar and still the mum can stop the kids from seeing you and the courts do nothing to punish her, cause she's their mum!
If a mother or father breech a court order the court can issue community service and even prison if its a repeat offence, so no the courts don't do nothing."i was arrested and sent to jail for missing maintenance,i didnt even know there was a maintenance order out for me,,,i paid it all,and 2 months later i was 5 pound short and was arrested agin and put in prison,,,yet she could miss all my supposed visits sett up tru the court and not a thing would be said to her,a system it was a fair one not a hope,but its getting better every day | |||
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We have young twin children and she walked out a month after their 1st birthday, and went down to London to meet a guy she knew on the internet through an online game!
They got engaged within two weeks, and she then split with him within two months!
Non the less I obviously had to leave my job and take on a part time position elsewhere as I was on my own raising the children.
Moving on...
I got together with an old friend and things are great... for one we are here, but I am currently playing alone as she is on 'pregnancy leave' lol
Anyway, my twin children live with us, yet my ex partner is now again pregnant and looking to gain social housing as a result, yet telling people she will be having the twins too living with her and partner and new baby.
There is no formal [courts] arrangement on the children's living, and my worry now is she can effectivly 'snatch' them when she has them on a saturday for a few hours and not return?
I am worried to approach the courts as the system is still very archaic and favours the mother in the majority of cases 
Not great really! | |||
"..... sorry but thats just rubbish, ....... but soon as it goes thro court that changes No it isn't rubbish! No it isn't "as soon as" - It can take years (7 in my case) and a hell of a lot of my own money (won't say how much cause it might make me cry again! ) to win the court case, prove her to be a liar and still the mum can stop the kids from seeing you and the courts do nothing to punish her, cause she's their mum!
If a mother or father breech a court order the court can issue community service and even prison if its a repeat offence, so no the courts don't do nothing."The courts may have the powers to punish the mothers but very very rarely use them. While my case was going on there was a mother who was sent to prison (first time in prison) for breaching a court order for the 7th time - yup 7th time! The court had done nothing to her the previous 6 times as "she was the kids mum" and it wasn't until the dad had proved she was also a liar that the court agreed that he could have custody and therefore look after the kids fulltime while the mother was in prison! It was also so rare it made news headlines here as it had been the first time a mother had been sent to prison (in this area) in over 5 years for breaching a court order! The moral of the story is that if you are a mother you get to do what you like and it's usually funded by the Legal Aid system, but fathers need to spend years of their lives and their OWN money (not Legal Aid) to prove that the mother is not always the one telling the truth; as this is what courts believe to start with (in most cases). Disclaimer - Scots Law applies here!  i.e. thats my experience of how unfair the Court's Child Welfare Hearing system really is! | |||
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"I have certain problems with my ex partner. I used to work A LOT of hours per week [Average 85] to keep the house running, car running, good life for kids, etc etc. She started inviting a guy around to our house while I was at work, this guy was actually an employee of mine!!!
We have young twin children and she walked out a month after their 1st birthday, and went down to London to meet a guy she knew on the internet through an online game!
They got engaged within two weeks, and she then split with him within two months!
Non the less I obviously had to leave my job and take on a part time position elsewhere as I was on my own raising the children.
Moving on...
I got together with an old friend and things are great... for one we are here, but I am currently playing alone as she is on 'pregnancy leave' lol
Anyway, my twin children live with us, yet my ex partner is now again pregnant and looking to gain social housing as a result, yet telling people she will be having the twins too living with her and partner and new baby.
There is no formal [courts] arrangement on the children's living, and my worry now is she can effectivly 'snatch' them when she has them on a saturday for a few hours and not return?
I am worried to approach the courts as the system is still very archaic and favours the mother in the majority of cases
Not great really!"If i were you, i would seek legal advice as i know in the reverse a mother can write a letter stating that she shares custody and the council would then allocate a property to fit their criteria ie not a one bed need but a two, however i am not sure what happens in your case. | |||
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"Not all men. My brother could see his kids a lot more than he does but he chooses not to cos he somehow thinks it's punishing his ex wife Twisted logic That and the fact he's a fucking arse" Talk about cutting his own nose of to spite his own face. | |||
" The moral of the story is that if you are a mother you get to do what you like and it's usually funded by the Legal Aid system, but fathers need to spend years of their lives and their OWN money (not Legal Aid) to prove that the mother is not always the one telling the truth; as this is what courts believe to start with (in most cases). " Sorry but what a load of tosh. If myself as a mother, were allowed to do what i want and get away with it i would have saved both myself and most importantly my daughter over 7 years of hell at the hands of her father and step mum. Iv been served with papers for breeching our court order over 5 times because i put my daughters, feelings, wants, needs and her best interests first. The problems with the courts is common sense NEVER comes into the equation, what the law states is all that matters, the end result of this is time and time again my daughter is forced to go to her fathers when she is addement, even to the point of breaking down at school in front of her teachers begging not to have to go to her dads. Why?? because the court order says shes got to, until yet another caffcass report is done to find out what the issues are, which takes weeks if not months which gives good old daddy time to play a clever game and buy her love yet again. which unfortunatly works with a 5/6/7/8/9/10 year old. Thankfully this is no longer working and my daughter see's her father for what he is and although she still goes, she is slowly but surely cutting back time with him, which is her choice, now she is at an age where she herself can turn to her dad and say, no im not coming because.... instead of me having having to fight for her, there is little her father can do. Thankfully now she is 11 she is realising what a selfish, spineless git her father is unfortunately the damage is already done and its been all his own doing, and in the process he as robbed my daughter of a carefree child hood, instead filling it with caffcass reporters (which she hates), court dates and worries. Its also had a serious impact on her schooling. She is far too mature for her age and i constantly worry what lasting effects it will have on her. Its been seven years of hell for my daughter and i hate her father passionately for it, im just thankful that we are close enough for her to come to me with her worries and i can keep her on the straight and narrow, although its been a hard slog constantly feeling like its 2 steps forward and 3 steps back. Sorry that turned out to be a serious rant. kat | |||
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" The moral of the story is that if you are a mother you get to do what you like and it's usually funded by the Legal Aid system, but fathers need to spend years of their lives and their OWN money (not Legal Aid) to prove that the mother is not always the one telling the truth; as this is what courts believe to start with (in most cases). Sorry but what a load of tosh. " No it's not! That's exactly what happened in my case - or are you saying it isn't? | |||
" The moral of the story is that if you are a mother you get to do what you like and it's usually funded by the Legal Aid system, but fathers need to spend years of their lives and their OWN money (not Legal Aid) to prove that the mother is not always the one telling the truth; as this is what courts believe to start with (in most cases). Sorry but what a load of tosh. No it's not! That's exactly what happened in my case - or are you saying it isn't? "Quite clearly it is as my case proves. Obviously all cases are different but such a statement of 'The moral of the story is that if you are a mother you get to do what you like' Then to go on and also say in most cases all mother scrounge of the legal aid system is a load of tosh. | |||
" The moral of the story is that if you are a mother you get to do what you like and it's usually funded by the Legal Aid system, but fathers need to spend years of their lives and their OWN money (not Legal Aid) to prove that the mother is not always the one telling the truth; as this is what courts believe to start with (in most cases). Sorry but what a load of tosh. No it's not! That's exactly what happened in my case - or are you saying it isn't? "if the judge had awarded custody to the mother ,,,,,as is very much often the case. It is then very much up to the father to challenge the judges ruling ,,,,,more times than not at his own expense BBS tale appears to be one of thousands of fathers seeking not only justice but the chance to continue to be a part of there childrens lives after the relationship with the mother has ended. | |||
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" The moral of the story is that if you are a mother you get to do what you like and it's usually funded by the Legal Aid system, but fathers need to spend years of their lives and their OWN money (not Legal Aid) to prove that the mother is not always the one telling the truth; as this is what courts believe to start with (in most cases). Sorry but what a load of tosh. No it's not! That's exactly what happened in my case - or are you saying it isn't?
Quite clearly it is as my case proves.
Obviously all cases are different but such a statement of
'The moral of the story is that if you are a mother you get to do what you like'
Then to go on and also say in most cases all mother scrounge of the legal aid system is a load of tosh. "That's not what I said - but will leave you now to add words like scrounge to the post when I didn't.
PS - You did fail to spot the that I didn't say in ALL cases
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" The moral of the story is that if you are a mother you get to do what you like and it's usually funded by the Legal Aid system, but fathers need to spend years of their lives and their OWN money (not Legal Aid) to prove that the mother is not always the one telling the truth; as this is what courts believe to start with (in most cases). Sorry but what a load of tosh. No it's not! That's exactly what happened in my case - or are you saying it isn't?
Quite clearly it is as my case proves.
Obviously all cases are different but such a statement of
'The moral of the story is that if you are a mother you get to do what you like'
Then to go on and also say in most cases all mother scrounge of the legal aid system is a load of tosh.
That's not what I said - but will leave you now to add words like scrounge to the post when I didn't.
PS - You did fail to spot the that I didn't say in ALL cases
"Fair enough YOU didn't say scrounge that was my word and that was also my interpretation of what you ment. What i am trying to show you is the FACT it is not always this way, everyone is so up and arms over there rights that people (and this is not aimed you) forget that the kids are the ones who suffer, and suffer in ways you could never image or expect or second guess. I know i see it and deal with it every day. While mummy and daddy argue the toss in court, firmly believing that what they are fighting for is what is best for the child, sight if the most important thing is lost...the child. Whose biggest wish 9 times out of 10 is for the fighting to stop. I could go on and on, on this subject as it does touch a nerve, sorry if i offended/pissed you off. kat | |||
"I have certain problems with my ex partner. I used to work A LOT of hours per week [Average 85] to keep the house running, car running, good life for kids, etc etc. She started inviting a guy around to our house while I was at work, this guy was actually an employee of mine!!!
We have young twin children and she walked out a month after their 1st birthday, and went down to London to meet a guy she knew on the internet through an online game!
They got engaged within two weeks, and she then split with him within two months!
Non the less I obviously had to leave my job and take on a part time position elsewhere as I was on my own raising the children.
Moving on...
I got together with an old friend and things are great... for one we are here, but I am currently playing alone as she is on 'pregnancy leave' lol
Anyway, my twin children live with us, yet my ex partner is now again pregnant and looking to gain social housing as a result, yet telling people she will be having the twins too living with her and partner and new baby.
There is no formal [courts] arrangement on the children's living, and my worry now is she can effectivly 'snatch' them when she has them on a saturday for a few hours and not return?
I am worried to approach the courts as the system is still very archaic and favours the mother in the majority of cases
Not great really!
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If i were you, i would seek legal advice as i know in the reverse a mother can write a letter stating that she shares custody and the council would then allocate a property to fit their criteria ie not a one bed need but a two, however i am not sure what happens in your case."Sure am, have an appointment with a solicitor later this month. End of the day I have gotten my twins into a routine, they attend a nursery monday - friday while my partner and I work, which has certainly increased their development tenfold! Unfortunatly on the occasions my ex does have them she stuff them full of chocolate and other "treats" like normal meals, and that makes them think it's ok to have these things rather than eat balanced foods, etc. Just hope when it all comes to a head the courts can actually see what it is I have done for them, and how I am maintaining them in a good and regular lifestyle. Unfortunatly she has a wildcard she likes to throw about... accusations of domestic violence! These accusations only emerged after we split, so there is no proof of such a thing, however it's never seen like that, unfortunatly she says this and all of a sudden I am the class 1 bastard, even though it is not true, I cannot prove it to be untrue. | |||
"When my marriage broke down my initial thought was to move as far away from my ex as possible, but my love for my children outweighed any animosity I felt. Their dad was there from day one of their lives: his love and pride for them was never in question. To move them from him would have hurt not only him (I didn't care) but devastated my children (cared), so I moved just four miles away. He was able to pick them up from school, feed them and keep in contact. Without social services/CSA he supported his children and continued to see them every day. In time we got on. We spend birthdays, anniversaries as a family. When our eldest is in the country we go for lunch as a family. We moved our youngest to uni in Derby together and visit her together. I've been helping and guiding him through TUPE he helps with my plumbing. Our divorce could have been acrimonious but there was no one else involved in our break up, we did that ourselves. Neither of us was going to make our kids suffer: they were and are our centre. I don't understand how some parents make it so difficult for their children. " I know that a lot of my friends back home do not understand my reasons for staying here in the uk after my husband left me when our son was 2 and the twins 4 months old, but my answer was simple..not matter what he had said or done to me, he loved his kids and would do anything for them and I would never ever take them away from him.It has been a very hard 3 and a bit years, but at least finally he has seen the light in that it is so much better if we are amicable, something I was trying for from the start.He has them every weekend and will sometimes helkp out with the school runs etc. Even when he really pisses me off, I have never talked bad about him in front of the kids, would not have been fair on them | |||
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"i went through the courts, and ended up getting custody of my son, but it was hard work. they allways go on the mothers side, even when their not right in there head like my ex wife. then small things like nappy changing if your out in a public place, you carnt do it in a mans loo, and you carnt go in females loos to do it. then you get oh aint you sweet brining him up. silly things like that, got on my nerves. not to bad now hes 17 the nightmare begins lol" I can empathsise with this absolutely! Comments such as... "Isn't it strange being the dad and bringing up your children" "WOW, must be difficult without their mum" "I don;t know how you manage" WHY!?! Is it because I don't have a pair of milk jugs on my chest, or a womb that carried them for 9 months??Does that make me physically or emotionally devoid of the instinct needed to raise my children properly and effectively? I think not | |||
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"..... sorry but thats just rubbish, ....... but soon as it goes thro court that changes No it isn't rubbish! No it isn't "as soon as" - It can take years (7 in my case) and a hell of a lot of my own money (won't say how much cause it might make me cry again! ) to win the court case, prove her to be a liar and still the mum can stop the kids from seeing you and the courts do nothing to punish her, cause she's their mum! "true i was lucky it only took me two years to get to see my daughter. some people on here annoy me when they talk shite on such serious subjects | |||
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"I think its really cruel of any parent to deny access (especially to the children) unless due to reasons of potential harm or risk of kidnap. Change is on the way though this year where the courts are moving to shared parentage options, rather than formal single custody. No longer will people be able to use there kids as weapons in a pointless post relationship battle. " Of course they can in probably a more underhand way. I am obviously not saying this is the case for everyone but manipulating your own child so they feel so guilty and then decide they don't want to see their father incase it looks disloyal to their mother happens all the time. The dad has no chance if you have a mother crying in front of her children about what a bad time she is having because their dad has left as it makes them take sides...which in turn could make the child say they don't want to see their dad at all. | |||
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"I think its really cruel of any parent to deny access (especially to the children) unless due to reasons of potential harm or risk of kidnap. Change is on the way though this year where the courts are moving to shared parentage options, rather than formal single custody. No longer will people be able to use there kids as weapons in a pointless post relationship battle. Of course they can in probably a more underhand way. I am obviously not saying this is the case for everyone but manipulating your own child so they feel so guilty and then decide they don't want to see their father incase it looks disloyal to their mother happens all the time. The dad has no chance if you have a mother crying in front of her children about what a bad time she is having because their dad has left as it makes them take sides...which in turn could make the child say they don't want to see their dad at all." Very true, but it works both ways, a father can and do exactly the same. | |||
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 Sorry rant over | |||
"The only people I know who did it were women and mainly as they had the custody and why I mentioned women. I don't know any men who have custody so don't know on that score." They dont have to have custody to manipulate there children for there own selfish wants. | |||
"The only people I know who did it were women and mainly as they had the custody and why I mentioned women. I don't know any men who have custody so don't know on that score. They dont have to have custody to manipulate there children for there own selfish wants." But it is a hell of a lot easier for the parent with custody to do the manipulating, especially when they stop the kids seeing the other parent therefore they have no chance to say anything to their own kids! In short, it works both ways and no parent should use the kids against the other! | |||
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"been in a possition of not living with my children twice now but would like to say to all the guys out there thats going through it at this momment in time you never lose their love and as they get older they make their own minds up Sam "just read this and agree with you totally because yes children do grow up as i say above and in the end they do what they want to do | |||
"isnt it a shame that the only people that we talk about are the adults and how they will always put their children first, when actually they are really putting themselves first i believe that men do get a very raw deal when it comes to being given custody of their own children and that the legal system in this country is so very biaised on the other hand sometimes i believe that it is actually the children that should be asked first and foremost which parent they would prefer to live with (if they are old enough and able to say without being coaxed to say one against the other), my ex brother-in-law quite a few years back was told by his solicitor that as his children were over 11 years old they had the choice as they were seen in the eyes of the law to be able to say who they would prefer to live with they did choose and both chose their father and not because of their mother being vindictive but because their father was the person that they wanted to live with cut my ex sister-in-law to the quick, but they see her just as much because they live in the same city and their relationship with both parents is very good and very stable now children do have their own minds and their own opinions and it is such a shame that adults appear to think they know what is best for the children when, in fact, the children know what is best for them most of the time because children dont see grey areas all they really want is stability and routine otherwise they will always feel guilty for causing the split! obviously when children are at risk then the authorities should step in, althought placing a child in care is definitely not the answer because that is a very traumatic experience too and then the long drawn out court system where each appearance means that all the dirty washing is aired in public has a detrimental effect on the children and as i said in my first post, it is the relationship between the parents that is beyond repair, not that of the children and so i gave my children the choice they made their choice, my son lives with his dad, my daughter with me, but we both see them when they want to see us and i have told them both that any problems with either of us, then they sort them out with us individually because neither of us (me n my ex) want anything to do with each other yes they are teenagers and yes they know exactly what went on, but end of the day its their choice and we never once went to court! children will grow up and make their own decisions and it is not up to either parent to put into their minds the horrors of what happened between their parents, that is so wrong!" The downside of that is if one of the parents has been manipulative when the kids are little, as i know that has happened to a friend of mine, luckily his sons have seen her for what she is but his daughter hasnt and doesnt see him | |||
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"i have the opposite with my now ex hubby, i had to fight to get him to pay maintenance in end had to get csa, he only sees his daughter when he feels like it and has not seen her since last august and before that it was march and then he only spent a few hrs with her as he had new lady in his life with him, and he wont break breath to me at all" I so know there are men that want nothing to do with their children but those that do really do have a very raw deal and I hope your daughter is just as happy because you (her mum) cares so much about her x | |||
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"Many years ago I worked for an agency that helped fathers that were being given a rough deal via the courts.. now having spoken to many cafcas workers I can say that in the past that YES they are biased towards the mothers.. But that has all been changing lately... and the 4 days with one, and 4 with the other parent is now the prefered choice... Parental aleination has finally been recognised for the poison to the children that it is... And its frowned upon big style now.. I would never nor have I ever, stopped my kids from seeing their Dad.... although its not taken advantage of much. Katie, x" As a father (who has no issue with his x all amicable) i live in hope on what you say in your post for all the fathers who have been badly treated by the courts. Can there cases be reviewed ?? | |||
