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Only in America
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Goodness only knows what they'd make of The All Blacks.  "
Brilliant point... I only wish someone had used in on the Sky news feed I was watching, where some people were being outraged by the continuing use of Redskins as a NFL team name ....  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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What about the Kansas City Chiefs ?
Atlanta Braves ?
Cleveland Indians ?
Chicago Blackhawks ?
Or in Lacrosse the Brooklyn Redmen ?
Just to name but a few  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I personally think it's a bit PC gone mad. Like you can't call a chalk board a black board in schools anymore... Even though that's what colour it is. Or baa baa black sheep is deemed offensive. I think we all know the difference between a racial connotation and the name of something since it was created. |
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There was some actor who got a lot of slack back at Halloween for posting a picture of himself dressed as an Native American for his costume. They said it was offensive. Those Americans (or at least the natives) be trippin!!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What about the Kansas City Chiefs ?
Atlanta Braves ?
Cleveland Indians ?
Chicago Blackhawks ?
Or in Lacrosse the Brooklyn Redmen ?
Just to name but a few "
I'm assuming the outrage is against the use of colour .....so the place names wouldn't be an issue |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think they should change the name
-Courtney "
But that would be like changing walsal from being the saddlers, for horse cruelty reasons.
Or nit being able to call arsenal the gunners, because of the levels of gun crime.
Or not calling wolverhampton wanderers, wolves, because they are a pile of shite |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think they should change the name
-Courtney
But that would be like changing walsal from being the saddlers, for horse cruelty reasons.
Or nit being able to call arsenal the gunners, because of the levels of gun crime.
Or not calling wolverhampton wanderers, wolves, because they are a pile of shite "
*shrug*
Race relations in America is a touchy subject. The name has historically negative implications and Native Americans have asked for it to be changed for years. I think it would be an easy, respectful thing to do.
But the money attached to the name, and therefore the brand, wins out every time.
-Courtney |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Anyone who has ever read "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" or other tracts describing the genocide committed against the Native Americans will perhaps understand better the reasoning behind the desire for change.
Whilst I get the arguments on both sides, simply dismissing this as "political correctness gone mad" is to misunderstand the historical context. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I personally think it's a bit PC gone mad. Like you can't call a chalk board a black board in schools anymore... Even though that's what colour it is. Or baa baa black sheep is deemed offensive. I think we all know the difference between a racial connotation and the name of something since it was created."
Ah, the usual refrain of those dismissive of the actual arguments. If ever any of these things ever happened, they were more than likely to be in the febrile mind of a newspaper headline writer. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think they should change the name
-Courtney
But that would be like changing walsal from being the saddlers, for horse cruelty reasons.
Or nit being able to call arsenal the gunners, because of the levels of gun crime.
Or not calling wolverhampton wanderers, wolves, because they are a pile of shite
*shrug*
Race relations in America is a touchy subject. The name has historically negative implications and Native Americans have asked for it to be changed for years. I think it would be an easy, respectful thing to do.
But the money attached to the name, and therefore the brand, wins out every time.
-Courtney "
Yeah, I get your point, I just wanted to say that wolves are shite in a light hearted way, because I like to take any oportunity to have a pop at them, sorry |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Anyone who has ever read "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" or other tracts describing the genocide committed against the Native Americans will perhaps understand better the reasoning behind the desire for change.
Whilst I get the arguments on both sides, simply dismissing this as "political correctness gone mad" is to misunderstand the historical context."
That is an amazing and moving book. I recommend people who have the time read it  |
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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"I think they should change the name
-Courtney "
I'm thinking,the orange skins.
On the other hand,maybe that would be offensive to citrus fruits.
Snooker will never be the same, no black,no white,no yellow,
and no brown.
  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Anyone who has ever read "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" or other tracts describing the genocide committed against the Native Americans will perhaps understand better the reasoning behind the desire for change.
Whilst I get the arguments on both sides, simply dismissing this as "political correctness gone mad" is to misunderstand the historical context.
That is an amazing and moving book. I recommend people who have the time read it "
100% agree...a must read |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think they should change the name
-Courtney
I'm thinking,the orange skins.
On the other hand,maybe that would be offensive to citrus fruits.
Snooker will never be the same, no black,no white,no yellow,
and no brown.
"
To focus on the color is to show that you don't really understand the issue. The name "red skins" is a derogatory term. If we wanted to name a football team with well known back or Hispanic derogatory terms than people would be outraged.
I don't think they should be forced to change it - and in fact this argument has been going on since I was a child, but I think they SHOULD change it.
I don't think British people can really understand the cultural implications of this debate. Shown by this condensed focus on the word "red."
-Courtney |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Anyone who has ever read "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" or other tracts describing the genocide committed against the Native Americans will perhaps understand better the reasoning behind the desire for change.
Whilst I get the arguments on both sides, simply dismissing this as "political correctness gone mad" is to misunderstand the historical context."
|
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I think they should change the name
-Courtney
I'm thinking,the orange skins.
On the other hand,maybe that would be offensive to citrus fruits.
Snooker will never be the same, no black,no white,no yellow,
and no brown.
To focus on the color is to show that you don't really understand the issue. The name "red skins" is a derogatory term. If we wanted to name a football team with well known back or Hispanic derogatory terms than people would be outraged.
I don't think they should be forced to change it - and in fact this argument has been going on since I was a child, but I think they SHOULD change it.
I don't think British people can really understand the cultural implications of this debate. Shown by this condensed focus on the word "red."
-Courtney "
My experience is that those who don't understand or choose to dismiss the arguments usually focus on the use of the colour words. Hence we get the old trope above about blackboards and Baa Baa Blacksheep.
I'll have to find all the derogatory words being white and then apply them to the argument for balance.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I personally think it's a bit PC gone mad. Like you can't call a chalk board a black board in schools anymore... Even though that's what colour it is. Or baa baa black sheep is deemed offensive. I think we all know the difference between a racial connotation and the name of something since it was created.
Ah, the usual refrain of those dismissive of the actual arguments. If ever any of these things ever happened, they were more than likely to be in the febrile mind of a newspaper headline writer."
No one is dismissing that the historical events took place and that by today's standards the naming of this team is less than desirable. This was my point about us having the intelligence to distinguish from a racial connotation and the naming rights of a registered trade mark. If you were to use the term redskin to describe a person of Native American origin, then that is unacceptable. Surely the emphasis should be on education and enlightenment rather than making certain words taboo. It's all about context |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" Political correctness gone mad ? ....
Is it racist to call an NFL team the Red-Skins .......
 "
At the end of the day someone has created themselves an income by highlighting this 'racism"...it's either entrepreneurship or shenanigans |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I personally think it's a bit PC gone mad. Like you can't call a chalk board a black board in schools anymore... Even though that's what colour it is. Or baa baa black sheep is deemed offensive. I think we all know the difference between a racial connotation and the name of something since it was created.
Ah, the usual refrain of those dismissive of the actual arguments. If ever any of these things ever happened, they were more than likely to be in the febrile mind of a newspaper headline writer.
No one is dismissing that the historical events took place and that by today's standards the naming of this team is less than desirable. This was my point about us having the intelligence to distinguish from a racial connotation and the naming rights of a registered trade mark. If you were to use the term redskin to describe a person of Native American origin, then that is unacceptable. Surely the emphasis should be on education and enlightenment rather than making certain words taboo. It's all about context "
I don't necessarily disagree with any of that, although still can't see why any of that can't be done in addition to a name change.....but we couldn't possibly offend sports fans, could we? 
What I did roll my eyes at was the repeating of the baabaa black sheep/blackboard meme - which has now been used a a stick to beat any hint of this apparently life-threatening plague called "political correctness" since the early 1980's. If ever that song were banned, it was probably by an over-zealous nursery school assistant in Brent in 1981. Now, some people would have us believe that those terrible PC wardens are lurking around every corner just waiting for some poor white person to slip up  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Baa!
The disappointment with it for me is that a word is given precedence over its insinuation. Look at this forum for instance, because my opinion differs from others, I automatically only read red tops and am full of tripe... I should hang my head in shame.. Ha
Other opinions are available
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No its not. I imagine it's just another sensationalist media spin story of which there are just as many in this country. Shame on you Soxy for using a sensationalist misleading thread title  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The world has actually gone mad - and I am beginning to understand why, reading some of the posts on here. At work, I attend meetings now where basically very little is said except pleasant small talk - because everyone is frightened to death of upsetting someone by some comment that was never intended to be derogatory. It really is a crying shame this PC madness. I remember when some idiot politician was talking about apologising for the "black slave trade" on behalf of the UK. I was appalled - you can't change history - we were enslaved by the Vikings, Romans etc. but I don't see a clamour requesting the Italians or Danes to apologise!
Way too many people making a living out of this sort of crap. Live and let live. |
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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"I think they should change the name
-Courtney
I'm thinking,the orange skins.
On the other hand,maybe that would be offensive to citrus fruits.
Snooker will never be the same, no black,no white,no yellow,
and no brown.
To focus on the color is to show that you don't really understand the issue. The name "red skins" is a derogatory term. If we wanted to name a football team with well known back or Hispanic derogatory terms than people would be outraged.
I don't think they should be forced to change it - and in fact this argument has been going on since I was a child, but I think they SHOULD change it.
I don't think British people can really understand the cultural implications of this debate. Shown by this condensed focus on the word "red."
-Courtney "
As you have already said,the indigenous people of America,were slaughtered,
genocide on an unbelievable scale.
One of the human races greatest crimes,we should all hang our heads in shame,at the memory of such an atrocity.
demeaning these acts,to the level of an American football teams name,is shameful in its self.
The pc brigade lose focus on the real issues,
preferring to nit pick on the inconsequential.
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Native American Indians!
The biggest genocide in history and they don't even have a day set aside for them!
Still at least they got a football team named after them, that's better than those white Jews surely ahh but then they never got those Oscar winning films either.... Mmmm maybe them Oscars are racist |
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"I think they should change the name
-Courtney
I'm thinking,the orange skins.
On the other hand,maybe that would be offensive to citrus fruits.
Snooker will never be the same, no black,no white,no yellow,
and no brown.
To focus on the color is to show that you don't really understand the issue. The name "red skins" is a derogatory term. If we wanted to name a football team with well known back or Hispanic derogatory terms than people would be outraged.
I don't think they should be forced to change it - and in fact this argument has been going on since I was a child, but I think they SHOULD change it.
I don't think British people can really understand the cultural implications of this debate. Shown by this condensed focus on the word "red."
-Courtney
As you have already said,the indigenous people of America,were slaughtered,
genocide on an unbelievable scale.
One of the human races greatest crimes,we should all hang our heads in shame,at the memory of such an atrocity.
demeaning these acts,to the level of an American football teams name,is shameful in its self.
The pc brigade lose focus on the real issues,
preferring to nit pick on the inconsequential.
"
Why should I hang my head in shame, I didn't do it or was any party to it? |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Native American Indians!
The biggest genocide in history and they don't even have a day set aside for them!
Still at least they got a football team named after them, that's better than those white Jews surely ahh but then they never got those Oscar winning films either.... Mmmm maybe them Oscars are racist "
Those Muslims in Bosnia just didn't make the magic millions so not much remembrance for them either.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Those terrifying PC bastards are out to getcha folks!!
That's why they all wear sandals, so they can creep up on good, solid, everyday folk who are only "speaking their mind" |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"What about the Kansas City Chiefs ?
Atlanta Braves ?
Cleveland Indians ?
Chicago Blackhawks ?
Or in Lacrosse the Brooklyn Redmen ?
Just to name but a few "
i know the answer to a few of these...
the kansas city chiefs nickname had nothing to do with indians... the mayor of KC who got them to come to town was the chief of the boy scouts.....
and the Chicago Blackhawks (one close to my heart being a Blackhawks fans... was actually named after the Sauk indian chief, Black Hawk, and played a huge part in the history of early ilinois and a lot of the midwest.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Native American Indians!
The biggest genocide in history and they don't even have a day set aside for them!
Still at least they got a football team named after them, that's better than those white Jews surely ahh but then they never got those Oscar winning films either.... Mmmm maybe them Oscars are racist
Those Muslims in Bosnia just didn't make the magic millions so not much remembrance for them either.
"
.
Yeah but did You know that Muslims also slaughtered Christians in that terrible civil war!.
Welcome to sebrinica |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Native American Indians!
The biggest genocide in history and they don't even have a day set aside for them!
Still at least they got a football team named after them, that's better than those white Jews surely ahh but then they never got those Oscar winning films either.... Mmmm maybe them Oscars are racist
Those Muslims in Bosnia just didn't make the magic millions so not much remembrance for them either.
.
Yeah but did You know that Muslims also slaughtered Christians in that terrible civil war!.
Welcome to sebrinica"
I know, but we're picking sides for the sake of argument.
I am PC and proud of it. The Brigade needs a uniform, I feel.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Normally I'm opposed to the PC brigade but I feel this actually has merit. If for instance you had black Americans objecting to the Cleveland Niggers or the Seattle Sambos then every right minded person would agree. Clearly, according to Courtney, and I've no reason to doubt, the indigenous people of America find the term redskins equally offensive. That being the case I think it's disgusting that the team owners haven't chosen to rename, rebrand without the need to be forced.
If anyone is offended by my above choice of words then you've obviously missed my point, and I'm not going to apologise for your stupidity. |
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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"I think they should change the name
-Courtney
I'm thinking,the orange skins.
On the other hand,maybe that would be offensive to citrus fruits.
Snooker will never be the same, no black,no white,no yellow,
and no brown.
To focus on the color is to show that you don't really understand the issue. The name "red skins" is a derogatory term. If we wanted to name a football team with well known back or Hispanic derogatory terms than people would be outraged.
I don't think they should be forced to change it - and in fact this argument has been going on since I was a child, but I think they SHOULD change it.
I don't think British people can really understand the cultural implications of this debate. Shown by this condensed focus on the word "red."
-Courtney
As you have already said,the indigenous people of America,were slaughtered,
genocide on an unbelievable scale.
One of the human races greatest crimes,we should all hang our heads in shame,at the memory of such an atrocity.
demeaning these acts,to the level of an American football teams name,is shameful in its self.
The pc brigade lose focus on the real issues,
preferring to nit pick on the inconsequential.
Why should I hang my head in shame, I didn't do it or was any party to it?"
people like you,depreciate the big issues,by focusing on the inconsequential.
That's why
For the indigenous people of America,the name of a football team is the very very least of their problems.
Focusing on this,only takes people's eye off the bigger picture.
In America they are still the most racially oppressed group,
basically they are still treated like crap.
Focus on that,then move on to what American football teams are called.
I honestly mean no offence.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think they should change the name
-Courtney
I'm thinking,the orange skins.
On the other hand,maybe that would be offensive to citrus fruits.
Snooker will never be the same, no black,no white,no yellow,
and no brown.
To focus on the color is to show that you don't really understand the issue. The name "red skins" is a derogatory term. If we wanted to name a football team with well known back or Hispanic derogatory terms than people would be outraged.
I don't think they should be forced to change it - and in fact this argument has been going on since I was a child, but I think they SHOULD change it.
I don't think British people can really understand the cultural implications of this debate. Shown by this condensed focus on the word "red."
-Courtney "
But you don't seem to acknowledge that the naming of a team is a compliment / mark of respect. It's not like you see the Boston Betrayers, California Cowards or the Seattle Surrender Monkeys is it...
Teams get named after things that command respect, take the compliment ffs.
I hate people trying to re-write history all the time. As the famous Soviet phrase goes "how can we predict the future, in 10 years we don't even know what the past will have contained" |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think they should change the name
-Courtney
I'm thinking,the orange skins.
On the other hand,maybe that would be offensive to citrus fruits.
Snooker will never be the same, no black,no white,no yellow,
and no brown.
To focus on the color is to show that you don't really understand the issue. The name "red skins" is a derogatory term. If we wanted to name a football team with well known back or Hispanic derogatory terms than people would be outraged.
I don't think they should be forced to change it - and in fact this argument has been going on since I was a child, but I think they SHOULD change it.
I don't think British people can really understand the cultural implications of this debate. Shown by this condensed focus on the word "red."
-Courtney
But you don't seem to acknowledge that the naming of a team is a compliment / mark of respect. It's not like you see the Boston Betrayers, California Cowards or the Seattle Surrender Monkeys is it...
Teams get named after things that command respect, take the compliment ffs.
I hate people trying to re-write history all the time. As the famous Soviet phrase goes "how can we predict the future, in 10 years we don't even know what the past will have contained" "
I'm not rewriting anything. I don't find the name personally offensive. It is native Americans who have been trying to get the name changed. I personally couldn't care less about football.
I just find it hypocritical that we care so much about derogatory names for some groups and not for others. And I still stand by the belief that the British simply don't understand most of the cultural implications of the argument.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think they should change the name
-Courtney
I'm thinking,the orange skins.
On the other hand,maybe that would be offensive to citrus fruits.
Snooker will never be the same, no black,no white,no yellow,
and no brown.
To focus on the color is to show that you don't really understand the issue. The name "red skins" is a derogatory term. If we wanted to name a football team with well known back or Hispanic derogatory terms than people would be outraged.
I don't think they should be forced to change it - and in fact this argument has been going on since I was a child, but I think they SHOULD change it.
I don't think British people can really understand the cultural implications of this debate. Shown by this condensed focus on the word "red."
-Courtney
But you don't seem to acknowledge that the naming of a team is a compliment / mark of respect. It's not like you see the Boston Betrayers, California Cowards or the Seattle Surrender Monkeys is it...
Teams get named after things that command respect, take the compliment ffs.
I hate people trying to re-write history all the time. As the famous Soviet phrase goes "how can we predict the future, in 10 years we don't even know what the past will have contained"
I'm not rewriting anything. I don't find the name personally offensive. It is native Americans who have been trying to get the name changed. I personally couldn't care less about football.
I just find it hypocritical that we care so much about derogatory names for some groups and not for others. And I still stand by the belief that the British simply don't understand most of the cultural implications of the argument. "
I actually agree with the latter point. There do seem to be large groups of americans who are ideologically obsessed with race. They go on and on about it, trying to make every issue somehow related to race the way that UKIP somehow blame every problem on the EU. I just think they need to get over it and leave my football team alone. Few things are sader and more devicise than creating an ultra strong identity based on things you just happened to be born with.
Taking offence is a choice and the people that do some most often tend to be bellends anyway. Fuck em, keep the name. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The problem is, I believe, that the US is going through an identity crisis, and had been for a few years.
It's still a relatively new country, that has grown, changed and evolved into something that they're not quite sure of, trying to cling to their early heritage, and the "founding fathers" principles, and the constitution.
A lot of those principles are somewhat archaic and are difficult to apply in a modern society, just look at the Right to Bear Arms
I like to think of them as a troubled teenager, bullish, know it alls, who are going to grow into mature adults at some stage
Developing their identity as a nation is the most troubling part of their growing up |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's the white PC brigade that worry about offence and make up all these stupid rules that the minority groups don't even care about"
In this case it's the white PC brigade who identify as 1/16th cherokee or something stupid like that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Watching a game if snooker should be a hoot lol x"
"Oh dear, he's accidentally potted the colour that is that opposite colour to the absence of colour, which of course will cost him the frame" |
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