FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > brexit ?
brexit ?
Jump to: Newest in thread
"Britain's continuing membership of the [European] Community would mean the end of Britain as a completely self-governing nation."
"My view of the EU has always been not that I am hostile to foreigners but I am in favour of democracy. I think they are building an empire and want us to be part of that empire, and I don't want that."
"When I saw how the European Union was developing, it was very obvious what they had in mind was not democratic. In Britain, you vote for a government so the government has to listen to you, and if you don't like it you can change it."
Tony Benn
Cameron has achieved nothing, just a few crumbs which don't address the major issues |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
 |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"as with all big events of national importance i ask the same question.....
do we get the day off?  "
And can we still bring loads of cheap booze back from Spain! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I'll be at glastonbury festival not paying attention to the vote
I may yet register to vote by post but im not sure i know enough of the pros/cons to pass judgement yet |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I'll be at glastonbury festival not paying attention to the vote
I may yet register to vote by post but im not sure i know enough of the pros/cons to pass judgement yet"
Then educate yourself, this is seriously important  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
And can we still bring loads of cheap booze back from Spain!"
If we remain a trading partner (e.g. Norway) then yes.
Similarly for visas to visit EU countries (and even before we joined, you didn't need a visa to visit most European countries)
The EU doesn't give us security , NATO does, and that won't change either. In fact I'd argue membership of the EU reduces our security.
Costs us £20bn a year, for which we get £8bn back in rebates, so a net of £12bn.
Norway pays less per year (£34m) to be a trading partner than we pay per day to be in.
We have 7.5% of the vote, and that will be diluted further as more countries join. Saying we need to be at the heart of EU government, is a bit like saying the Monster Raving Loony Party has significant influence on government policy.
I think we should stay in - don't you? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
And can we still bring loads of cheap booze back from Spain!
If we remain a trading partner (e.g. Norway) then yes.
Similarly for visas to visit EU countries (and even before we joined, you didn't need a visa to visit most European countries)
The EU doesn't give us security , NATO does, and that won't change either. In fact I'd argue membership of the EU reduces our security.
Costs us £20bn a year, for which we get £8bn back in rebates, so a net of £12bn.
Norway pays less per year (£34m) to be a trading partner than we pay per day to be in.
We have 7.5% of the vote, and that will be diluted further as more countries join. Saying we need to be at the heart of EU government, is a bit like saying the Monster Raving Loony Party has significant influence on government policy.
I think we should stay in - don't you?"
 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Unfortunately hardly anyone actually knows what it is they are voting for;
Many of the so- called " out " issues or arguments are actually nothing to do with the EU; and leaving will not solve them ( and in some cases make the issues worse).
For instance " let's leave the EU and trade with Europe as part of EFTA, then we won't have to pay the EU anything"
Oops! Bollocks; The EFTA agreements actually mean that EFTA countries pay the EU the same amount as if they were in the EU. And so on......
Many of the " in " issues and arguments are likewise nothing to do with the EU either.
Both sides are largely arguing emotional statements, and not presenting any facts whatsoever; so the vote is meaningless.
Whatever anyone thinks; the referendum is most likely to result in " stay" since historically, in referendums world-wide, 98% of the results where the question is"change or no change ?" Result in a " no change" result . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
i'm a likely to use the same arguement as i did on the scottish indepenence issue...
I want someone on the "brexit" side to be absolutely honest with me, and not paint me their rosey vision of what they think would happen if they left..... but want to know that absolutely worst thing that could be the consequence of voting to leave....
if i can do that and i can say "well i could live with that"... i'll vote go....
if no one will be honest enough to tell me that... i'll vote stay |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"so 23rd of june is the day we finnaly get to vote
thoughts ?"
I think it's funny, all the people who are for, keep spouting on about how we are just "Little Britain" without our EEC membership, and we need to realise we are no longer the world power we once were, blah,blah,blah. If that's the case, why do the self same people think it's our responsibility to carry the problems of the world and offer Asylum to all and sundry ? They can't have it both ways. If we are this little insignificant country, why do we offer so much help to the rest of the world ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
For instance " let's leave the EU and trade with Europe as part of EFTA, then we won't have to pay the EU anything"
Oops! Bollocks; The EFTA agreements actually mean that EFTA countries pay the EU the same amount as if they were in the EU. And so on......
."
So where do you get that from?
EFTA countries pay pennies compared to us and all have higher GDP per capita than EU28, with lower unemployment.
One figure I did look up was Norway, who have twice our GDP per capita and pay £34m a year. OK, so their population is 1/10th of the UK and their GDP is 1/5th. So taking the higher figure of 10, if we were to pay proportionately, it would cost us £340m p.a. as opposed to the current £12.bn.
We'd save around £11.6bn p.a., around 20% of the NHS budget. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *eavenNhell OP Couple
over a year ago
carrbrook stalybridge |
"
For instance " let's leave the EU and trade with Europe as part of EFTA, then we won't have to pay the EU anything"
Oops! Bollocks; The EFTA agreements actually mean that EFTA countries pay the EU the same amount as if they were in the EU. And so on......
.
So where do you get that from?
EFTA countries pay pennies compared to us and all have higher GDP per capita than EU28, with lower unemployment.
One figure I did look up was Norway, who have twice our GDP per capita and pay £34m a year. OK, so their population is 1/10th of the UK and their GDP is 1/5th. So taking the higher figure of 10, if we were to pay proportionately, it would cost us £340m p.a. as opposed to the current £12.bn.
We'd save around £11.6bn p.a., around 20% of the NHS budget."
norway havent blown thier north sea oil revenue on tax cuts etc they saved it in to a fund for the benefit of the whold country and are now reapming the rewards
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"i'm a likely to use the same arguement as i did on the scottish indepenence issue...
I want someone on the "brexit" side to be absolutely honest with me, and not paint me their rosey vision of what they think would happen if they left..... but want to know that absolutely worst thing that could be the consequence of voting to leave....
if i can do that and i can say "well i could live with that"... i'll vote go....
if no one will be honest enough to tell me that... i'll vote stay"
.
The honest answer is nobody knows the future!.
The euro could blow up tomorrow, Deutsche bank could go belly up, if we were in the EU when this happens it would be worse than not being in the EU, then again we could leave and see a 3% drop in GDP per year for ten years... It's all speculative.
For me I just want self determination and regardless of what they tell you, you don't get that with the EU.
There's many things I like about the EU and I'd actually vote for it, if Dave had said, if the answers yes I'll push for federalisation, one country, one tax policy, one army, one currency etc etc.
But the reality is it will be a hotch potch of halfassed laws like today, it benefits me not one sausage |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
When we were kids if we stood in the door way our parents would say in or out and we would one or the other I can't see how what we have with Europe as it stands or will stand is any good we need to be out or totally out. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
norway havent blown thier north sea oil revenue on tax cuts etc they saved it in to a fund for the benefit of the whold country and are now reapming the rewards
"
Yes, I know, but that's aside from the EU issue. We could have done the same but successive governments of all persuasions, have pissed it up the wall. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Unfortunately hardly anyone actually knows what it is they are voting for;"
You're right and this scares me. It's too serious a decision to make for emotional reasons.
Some of us have looked deeper into it and, having done that, I'm ready for getting out. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
For instance " let's leave the EU and trade with Europe as part of EFTA, then we won't have to pay the EU anything"
Oops! Bollocks; The EFTA agreements actually mean that EFTA countries pay the EU the same amount as if they were in the EU. And so on......
.
So where do you get that from?
EFTA countries pay pennies compared to us and all have higher GDP per capita than EU28, with lower unemployment.
One figure I did look up was Norway, who have twice our GDP per capita and pay £34m a year. OK, so their population is 1/10th of the UK and their GDP is 1/5th. So taking the higher figure of 10, if we were to pay proportionately, it would cost us £340m p.a. as opposed to the current £12.bn.
We'd save around £11.6bn p.a., around 20% of the NHS budget.norway havent blown thier north sea oil revenue on tax cuts etc they saved it in to a fund for the benefit of the whold country and are now reapming the rewards
"
.
We didn't blow it on tax cuts, Norway never sold the oil rights off in the first place, there sovereign wealth fund is made up of selling oil, like Saudis, Ares was just tax on the barrel sold |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"i'm a likely to use the same arguement as i did on the scottish indepenence issue...
I want someone on the "brexit" side to be absolutely honest with me, and not paint me their rosey vision of what they think would happen if they left..... but want to know that absolutely worst thing that could be the consequence of voting to leave....
if i can do that and i can say "well i could live with that"... i'll vote go....
if no one will be honest enough to tell me that... i'll vote stay.
The honest answer is nobody knows the future!.
The euro could blow up tomorrow, Deutsche bank could go belly up, if we were in the EU when this happens it would be worse than not being in the EU, then again we could leave and see a 3% drop in GDP per year for ten years... It's all speculative.
For me I just want self determination and regardless of what they tell you, you don't get that with the EU.
There's many things I like about the EU and I'd actually vote for it, if Dave had said, if the answers yes I'll push for federalisation, one country, one tax policy, one army, one currency etc etc.
But the reality is it will be a hotch potch of halfassed laws like today, it benefits me not one sausage"
okay... see... but that in effect is still fudging my questions....
so give me YOUR worst case scenario if the UK left the EU? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I will vote to stay in because it suits my personal circumstances and interests.
The campaigns up to now have consisted of scare mongering on both sides. It needs to be carefully researched by voters but how many people are going to do that? I think that people will be swept up in either camp without too much deep thought.
Doubt very much we will get the day off though.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Need to look at the bigger picture.. Europe needs to be united and controlled by a central government to remain in control.
This vote is essentially a make or break for that option. If we stay in then over time we will have to inherit the Euro and merge into a more European style.
If we vote out then other, struggling countries will follow.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
If the independence referendum has taught me anything its that regardless of what side you listen to scaremongering is the default tactic.
The majority of people have made up their minds. Can we not have the referendum next month and save ourselves 4 months of heartache and arguing?  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"i'm a likely to use the same arguement as i did on the scottish indepenence issue...
I want someone on the "brexit" side to be absolutely honest with me, and not paint me their rosey vision of what they think would happen if they left..... but want to know that absolutely worst thing that could be the consequence of voting to leave....
if i can do that and i can say "well i could live with that"... i'll vote go....
if no one will be honest enough to tell me that... i'll vote stay.
The honest answer is nobody knows the future!.
The euro could blow up tomorrow, Deutsche bank could go belly up, if we were in the EU when this happens it would be worse than not being in the EU, then again we could leave and see a 3% drop in GDP per year for ten years... It's all speculative.
For me I just want self determination and regardless of what they tell you, you don't get that with the EU.
There's many things I like about the EU and I'd actually vote for it, if Dave had said, if the answers yes I'll push for federalisation, one country, one tax policy, one army, one currency etc etc.
But the reality is it will be a hotch potch of halfassed laws like today, it benefits me not one sausage
okay... see... but that in effect is still fudging my questions....
so give me YOUR worst case scenario if the UK left the EU? "
.
3% GDP loss per year for ten years.. No maybe 4%-5% I dunno it depends on what happens to global trade, that's nose diving right now, if that continues probably the 5% end would be more accurate!.
One thing I won't say, is we'll be significantly better off, maybe the same, maybe slightly worse!.
I mean were not California but we're certainly not Alabama either |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"If the independence referendum has taught me anything its that regardless of what side you listen to scaremongering is the default tactic"
Exactly why some personal research is essential, but I realise many people won't have the time  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"For me I just want self determination and regardless of what they tell you, you don't get that with the EU."
And that is one of the greatest misunderstandings that is put about;
Any EU country has self determination; they all have independent parliaments; no EU law is binding until the countrie's own parliament votes it in; our parliament can refuse to vote in ANY new EU law; it chooses not to bother, but passes them all on a nod without any debate.
Bearing in mind, no EU proposed law can even be promulgated to EU countries without the approval of the Council of Ministers ( of which The UKs elected and appointed ministers are part ) - and not ( as is always wrongly stated, MEPs)
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
so give me YOUR worst case scenario if the UK left the EU? "
Fabio, I've researched the issue to some depth on 3 main fronts.
1) Security
2) Prosperity
3) Sovereignty
To be frank, I can't find a major downside.
The only significant uncertainty is trade. But we traded with European countries before joining, and we currently buy more from them than they do from us. They're not likely to stop selling us stuff out of spite. They may stop buying as much out of spite, and I would expect the French in particular to do so. But we would be free to negotiate new deals with non EU countries, without having to go to Brussels for permission. Much of the commonwealth is still keen to trade with us and there are emerging markets.
So, in the short term, we might experience a little economic discomfort, but I can't see it being any more than that. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
so give me YOUR worst case scenario if the UK left the EU?
Fabio, I've researched the issue to some depth on 3 main fronts.
1) Security
2) Prosperity
3) Sovereignty
To be frank, I can't find a major downside.
The only significant uncertainty is trade. But we traded with European countries before joining, and we currently buy more from them than they do from us. They're not likely to stop selling us stuff out of spite. They may stop buying as much out of spite, and I would expect the French in particular to do so. But we would be free to negotiate new deals with non EU countries, without having to go to Brussels for permission. Much of the commonwealth is still keen to trade with us and there are emerging markets.
So, in the short term, we might experience a little economic discomfort, but I can't see it being any more than that."
Trade will not suffer, see mine and other's posts on the thread I just posted above |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
""For me I just want self determination and regardless of what they tell you, you don't get that with the EU."
And that is one of the greatest misunderstandings that is put about;
Any EU country has self determination; they all have independent parliaments; no EU law is binding until the countrie's own parliament votes it in; our parliament can refuse to vote in ANY new EU law; it chooses not to bother, but passes them all on a nod without any debate.
Bearing in mind, no EU proposed law can even be promulgated to EU countries without the approval of the Council of Ministers ( of which The UKs elected and appointed ministers are part ) - and not ( as is always wrongly stated, MEPs)
"
.
You say that with such belief!
I suggest you poll the Greeks and see if they feel the same way? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Europe needs to be united and controlled by a central government to remain in control
This is exactly what I don't want"
Me either, i never want to be part of a united states of Europe, and lets face it that is the EU's ultimate long term goal. More or less everything they vote on in the European Parliament involves their key principle of ever closer union. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Most of our employment rights come from the European works council ,
I'm staying just because of my rights .
Hate to think my rights been sold off to the corporates especially with the TTIP agreement coming in .....you guys should read up about that , leaving Europe is just a smoke screen !
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Most of our employment rights come from the European works council ,
I'm staying just because of my rights .
Hate to think my rights been sold off to the corporates especially with the TTIP agreement coming in .....you guys should read up about that , leaving Europe is just a smoke screen !
"
Never heard so much bollocks in my life. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *eavenNhell OP Couple
over a year ago
carrbrook stalybridge |
"Most of our employment rights come from the European works council ,
I'm staying just because of my rights .
Hate to think my rights been sold off to the corporates especially with the TTIP agreement coming in .....you guys should read up about that , leaving Europe is just a smoke screen !
"
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Most of our employment rights come from the European works council ,
I'm staying just because of my rights .
Hate to think my rights been sold off to the corporates especially with the TTIP agreement coming in .....you guys should read up about that , leaving Europe is just a smoke screen !
"
.
Your much more likely to get ttip being in the EU than not! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Most of our employment rights come from the European works council ,
I'm staying just because of my rights .
Hate to think my rights been sold off to the corporates especially with the TTIP agreement coming in .....you guys should read up about that , leaving Europe is just a smoke screen !
.
Your much more likely to get ttip being in the EU than not!"
We will be in the TTIP agreement as it involves the state's regardless. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Most of our employment rights come from the European works council ,
I'm staying just because of my rights .
Hate to think my rights been sold off to the corporates especially with the TTIP agreement coming in .....you guys should read up about that , leaving Europe is just a smoke screen !
Never heard so much bollocks in my life. "
We hear a lot of bollocks in the city .. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Most of our employment rights come from the European works council ,
I'm staying just because of my rights .
Hate to think my rights been sold off to the corporates especially with the TTIP agreement coming in .....you guys should read up about that , leaving Europe is just a smoke screen !
.
Your much more likely to get ttip being in the EU than not!
We will be in the TTIP agreement as it involves the state's regardless."
.
Well you'd be entitled to petition your mp, vote in a different MP, vote for Jeremy corbyn, all these things would give you decent employment rights and not to sign up to ttip!.... You certainly don't need the EU "perse" for it |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
And can we still bring loads of cheap booze back from Spain!
If we remain a trading partner (e.g. Norway) then yes.
Similarly for visas to visit EU countries (and even before we joined, you didn't need a visa to visit most European countries)
The EU doesn't give us security , NATO does, and that won't change either. In fact I'd argue membership of the EU reduces our security.
Costs us £20bn a year, for which we get £8bn back in rebates, so a net of £12bn.
Norway pays less per year (£34m) to be a trading partner than we pay per day to be in.
We have 7.5% of the vote, and that will be diluted further as more countries join. Saying we need to be at the heart of EU government, is a bit like saying the Monster Raving Loony Party has significant influence on government policy.
I think we should stay in - don't you?"
Norways arrangement is better than EU membership, Switzerland have a better deal than Norway, and in the event of Brexit Britain can expect a much better deal than Switzerland....
www.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/what-brexit-would-look-like-for-britain/ |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Most of our employment rights come from the European works council ,
I'm staying just because of my rights .
Hate to think my rights been sold off to the corporates especially with the TTIP agreement coming in .....you guys should read up about that , leaving Europe is just a smoke screen !
.
Your much more likely to get ttip being in the EU than not!
We will be in the TTIP agreement as it involves the state's regardless..
Well you'd be entitled to petition your mp, vote in a different MP, vote for Jeremy corbyn, all these things would give you decent employment rights and not to sign up to ttip!.... You certainly don't need the EU "perse" for it"
Hmmm true , with the Tories in power it's hard to believe tho ,
Final sallary pensions have had a increase in N.I payments and forth .
I just don't trust them if we were to break free from Europe . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Most of our employment rights come from the European works council ,
I'm staying just because of my rights .
Hate to think my rights been sold off to the corporates especially with the TTIP agreement coming in .....you guys should read up about that , leaving Europe is just a smoke screen !
.
Your much more likely to get ttip being in the EU than not!
We will be in the TTIP agreement as it involves the state's regardless..
Well you'd be entitled to petition your mp, vote in a different MP, vote for Jeremy corbyn, all these things would give you decent employment rights and not to sign up to ttip!.... You certainly don't need the EU "perse" for it
Hmmm true , with the Tories in power it's hard to believe tho ,
Final sallary pensions have had a increase in N.I payments and forth .
I just don't trust them if we were to break free from Europe ."
.
That's democracy, they were voted in by the largest % ...
I mean what would you do if Europe went more right wing in the next ten years... Vote to leave? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What decided it for me was ttip.. Not sure what others think."
Yep, be scared, be very scared
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What decided it for me was ttip.. Not sure what others think."
.
ttip is a bloody EU trade deal, it's been agreeing it with the USA for years, it's completely secretive, the only people who've been consulted are heads of international business and a select few politicans and civil servants.
In fact after some bits of it got leaked the EU commission increased its security to make sure none of you slobs get any more details.
That's democracy at work right there  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
""For me I just want self determination and regardless of what they tell you, you don't get that with the EU."
And that is one of the greatest misunderstandings that is put about;
Any EU country has self determination; they all have independent parliaments; no EU law is binding until the countrie's own parliament votes it in; our parliament can refuse to vote in ANY new EU law; it chooses not to bother, but passes them all on a nod without any debate.
Bearing in mind, no EU proposed law can even be promulgated to EU countries without the approval of the Council of Ministers ( of which The UKs elected and appointed ministers are part ) - and not ( as is always wrongly stated, MEPs)
"
There is one place where we (Britain) as a nation truly do lack influence. That place is Brussels and the European Parliament. There have been 55 occasions where the UK voted against an EU measure in the Council of Ministers (the figure is deceptively low, because by tradition, countries rarely push matters to the vote when they can see that they will lose). Guess how many times out of those 55, we (Britain) succeeded in blocking the measure? That's right, ZERO!
That literally is, Zero influence.
www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2800998/daniel-hannan-no-mr-eurocrat-place-britain-irrelevant-inside-eu.html |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What decided it for me was ttip.. Not sure what others think..
ttip is a bloody EU trade deal, it's been agreeing it with the USA for years, it's completely secretive, the only people who've been consulted are heads of international business and a select few politicans and civil servants.
In fact after some bits of it got leaked the EU commission increased its security to make sure none of you slobs get any more details.
That's democracy at work right there "
lovely eh? Out for me thanks. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
""For me I just want self determination and regardless of what they tell you, you don't get that with the EU."
And that is one of the greatest misunderstandings that is put about;
Any EU country has self determination; they all have independent parliaments; no EU law is binding until the countrie's own parliament votes it in; our parliament can refuse to vote in ANY new EU law; it chooses not to bother, but passes them all on a nod without any debate.
Bearing in mind, no EU proposed law can even be promulgated to EU countries without the approval of the Council of Ministers ( of which The UKs elected and appointed ministers are part ) - and not ( as is always wrongly stated, MEPs)
There is one place where we (Britain) as a nation truly do lack influence. That place is Brussels and the European Parliament. There have been 55 occasions where the UK voted against an EU measure in the Council of Ministers (the figure is deceptively low, because by tradition, countries rarely push matters to the vote when they can see that they will lose). Guess how many times out of those 55, we (Britain) succeeded in blocking the measure? That's right, ZERO!
That literally is, Zero influence.
www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2800998/daniel-hannan-no-mr-eurocrat-place-britain-irrelevant-inside-eu.html"
We have a veto , not sure if it's ever been used.
As for the votes you refer to , isn't that mainly political posturing ?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
If you wanted to convince the public that international trade agreements are a way to let multinational companies get rich at the expense of ordinary people, this is what you would do: give foreign firms a special right to apply to a secretive tribunal of highly paid corporate lawyers for compensation whenever a government passes a law to, say, discourage smoking, protect the environment or prevent a nuclear catastrophe. Yet that is precisely what thousands of trade and investment treaties over the past half century have done, through a process known as 'investor-state dispute settlement', or ISDS....
The Economist, October 2014.
That's that wonderful left wing EU at work right there, with their wonderful employment rights, and there fan fucking tastic environmental legislation!
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"so 23rd of june is the day we finnaly get to vote
thoughts ?"
In or out, the decision will Make little difference to the average man on the street. Will probably effect the wealthy.
Nothing ever changes. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What decided it for me was ttip.. Not sure what others think..
ttip is a bloody EU trade deal, it's been agreeing it with the USA for years, it's completely secretive, the only people who've been consulted are heads of international business and a select few politicans and civil servants.
In fact after some bits of it got leaked the EU commission increased its security to make sure none of you slobs get any more details.
That's democracy at work right there lovely eh? Out for me thanks."
.
Yeah you might be able to persuade local mep who can now go into a secure room to read various bits of it... Of course he can't photograph, write down or copy it in any way, so I suggest you vote in Mr memory man as you local mep  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The EU is not perfect by a long way - but neither is the NHS. Both need reform as a long time had passed since they set up, and given the dangerous world we live in are we strong enough to stand alone.
Much has been said of Norway - paying a small amount to be on the periphery, but they have not changed their stance since joining & we will have by voting to leave. So if you winge & moan to change & the other's agree to your demands, then you vote to leave how do you think that would affect a relationship? So when we go to make a trade deal or go begging for the same terms as Norway etc do you really think they are going to say "yes mate" all is forgiven. They are going to make it so difficult for us. More so as a warning to other countries who may consider the same course! Then consider the Japanese car plant's in the UK if we are blocked or have poor trading terms then they will move the plants to Hungary, Slovakia, Poland etc. Redundancies galore and all those suppliers? The pound is predicted to fall 15-20% so all imports just gone up. We export 55% of our goods to Europe collectively, but Germany exports less than 10% of theirs to us - no big deal. Conclusion - probably one of the most important decisions you will ever be asked to make - be careful for what you wish for. Fact - if we leave poor old Nigel & his wife are going to be looking for new jobs - 111,000€ pa is going to be hard to replace! Also the "Jungle" in Calais would relocate to Dover. The border controls would be removed from France, the French security services employed in Calais would disappear so a free for all the migrant's to catch a ferry! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The EU is not perfect by a long way - but neither is the NHS. Both need reform as a long time had passed since they set up, and given the dangerous world we live in are we strong enough to stand alone.
Much has been said of Norway - paying a small amount to be on the periphery, but they have not changed their stance since joining & we will have by voting to leave. So if you winge & moan to change & the other's agree to your demands, then you vote to leave how do you think that would affect a relationship? So when we go to make a trade deal or go begging for the same terms as Norway etc do you really think they are going to say "yes mate" all is forgiven. They are going to make it so difficult for us. More so as a warning to other countries who may consider the same course! Then consider the Japanese car plant's in the UK if we are blocked or have poor trading terms then they will move the plants to Hungary, Slovakia, Poland etc. Redundancies galore and all those suppliers? The pound is predicted to fall 15-20% so all imports just gone up. We export 55% of our goods to Europe collectively, but Germany exports less than 10% of theirs to us - no big deal. Conclusion - probably one of the most important decisions you will ever be asked to make - be careful for what you wish for. Fact - if we leave poor old Nigel & his wife are going to be looking for new jobs - 111,000€ pa is going to be hard to replace! Also the "Jungle" in Calais would relocate to Dover. The border controls would be removed from France, the French security services employed in Calais would disappear so a free for all the migrant's to catch a ferry!"
I don't know where to start - but there are so many material inaccuracies in what you say, and much is unsubstantiated speculation.
One of our options is to join EFTA. the fee for which is outside the direct control of the EU, and the EU would bve legally obliged to honour the terms.
Yes I agree, there would be some childish petulance by some states, but as we are a net importer from the EU, we could just stop buying their wine and cheese.
I bet BMW and VAG would still want us to buy their cars.
Toyota and Nissan have both said they will keep manufacturing in the UK if we leave the EU.
Ford re-located their Transit manufacturing from Southampton to Turkey who are outside the EU. Guess what, the EU still imports Ford Transits.
I could go on, but I fear my efforts would be in vain.
A wise man once told me you can't change an emotionally held view with logic, no matter how incorrect that view is, nor how irrefutable is your logic. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Can't wait to leave-and I honstly haven;t spoken to any friends and workmates who wants to stay in. To hear the nationalists, they think Scots will vote to stay in, I really don't know where they get the confidence to say this.
Get us out!!!!!
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *umpkinMan
over a year ago
near the sounds of the wimborne quarter jack! |
"Can't wait to leave-and I honstly haven;t spoken to any friends and workmates who wants to stay in. To hear the nationalists, they think Scots will vote to stay in, I really don't know where they get the confidence to say this.
Get us out!!!!!
"
If we do get out, I`m waiting to see how many of our current railway franchises that are operated by European State owned railway companies are given up! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The EU is not perfect by a long way - but neither is the NHS. Both need reform as a long time had passed since they set up, and given the dangerous world we live in are we strong enough to stand alone.
Much has been said of Norway - paying a small amount to be on the periphery, but they have not changed their stance since joining & we will have by voting to leave. So if you winge & moan to change & the other's agree to your demands, then you vote to leave how do you think that would affect a relationship? So when we go to make a trade deal or go begging for the same terms as Norway etc do you really think they are going to say "yes mate" all is forgiven. They are going to make it so difficult for us. More so as a warning to other countries who may consider the same course! Then consider the Japanese car plant's in the UK if we are blocked or have poor trading terms then they will move the plants to Hungary, Slovakia, Poland etc. Redundancies galore and all those suppliers? The pound is predicted to fall 15-20% so all imports just gone up. We export 55% of our goods to Europe collectively, but Germany exports less than 10% of theirs to us - no big deal. Conclusion - probably one of the most important decisions you will ever be asked to make - be careful for what you wish for. Fact - if we leave poor old Nigel & his wife are going to be looking for new jobs - 111,000€ pa is going to be hard to replace! Also the "Jungle" in Calais would relocate to Dover. The border controls would be removed from France, the French security services employed in Calais would disappear so a free for all the migrant's to catch a ferry!
I don't know where to start - but there are so many material inaccuracies in what you say, and much is unsubstantiated speculation.
One of our options is to join EFTA. the fee for which is outside the direct control of the EU, and the EU would bve legally obliged to honour the terms.
Yes I agree, there would be some childish petulance by some states, but as we are a net importer from the EU, we could just stop buying their wine and cheese.
I bet BMW and VAG would still want us to buy their cars.
Toyota and Nissan have both said they will keep manufacturing in the UK if we leave the EU.
Ford re-located their Transit manufacturing from Southampton to Turkey who are outside the EU. Guess what, the EU still imports Ford Transits.
I could go on, but I fear my efforts would be in vain.
A wise man once told me you can't change an emotionally held view with logic, no matter how incorrect that view is, nor how irrefutable is your logic."
yes of course there will be a trade agreement - but not on the same basis as what Norway gets. German exports to the UK are only 7.4% of GDP not a lot & yes you will still get your BMW & VAG but you will probably pay up to 20% more for it! What I am saying is don't make an emotional decision, but a rational one based on factual information. People take things for granted eg phone calls in Europe would be more expensive if we left. Reciprocal health would be at risk etc. The pound will probably cease to be an international trading currency. We knock the Euro, but if the pound is so good why isn't the FX rate higher? There are lots of questions and answers to get before we decide yes or no! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The EU is not perfect by a long way - but neither is the NHS. Both need reform as a long time had passed since they set up, and given the dangerous world we live in are we strong enough to stand alone.
Much has been said of Norway - paying a small amount to be on the periphery, but they have not changed their stance since joining & we will have by voting to leave. So if you winge & moan to change & the other's agree to your demands, then you vote to leave how do you think that would affect a relationship? So when we go to make a trade deal or go begging for the same terms as Norway etc do you really think they are going to say "yes mate" all is forgiven. They are going to make it so difficult for us. More so as a warning to other countries who may consider the same course! Then consider the Japanese car plant's in the UK if we are blocked or have poor trading terms then they will move the plants to Hungary, Slovakia, Poland etc. Redundancies galore and all those suppliers? The pound is predicted to fall 15-20% so all imports just gone up. We export 55% of our goods to Europe collectively, but Germany exports less than 10% of theirs to us - no big deal. Conclusion - probably one of the most important decisions you will ever be asked to make - be careful for what you wish for. Fact - if we leave poor old Nigel & his wife are going to be looking for new jobs - 111,000€ pa is going to be hard to replace! Also the "Jungle" in Calais would relocate to Dover. The border controls would be removed from France, the French security services employed in Calais would disappear so a free for all the migrant's to catch a ferry!
I don't know where to start - but there are so many material inaccuracies in what you say, and much is unsubstantiated speculation.
One of our options is to join EFTA. the fee for which is outside the direct control of the EU, and the EU would bve legally obliged to honour the terms.
Yes I agree, there would be some childish petulance by some states, but as we are a net importer from the EU, we could just stop buying their wine and cheese.
I bet BMW and VAG would still want us to buy their cars.
Toyota and Nissan have both said they will keep manufacturing in the UK if we leave the EU.
Ford re-located their Transit manufacturing from Southampton to Turkey who are outside the EU. Guess what, the EU still imports Ford Transits.
I could go on, but I fear my efforts would be in vain.
A wise man once told me you can't change an emotionally held view with logic, no matter how incorrect that view is, nor how irrefutable is your logic.yes of course there will be a trade agreement - but not on the same basis as what Norway gets. German exports to the UK are only 7.4% of GDP not a lot & yes you will still get your BMW & VAG but you will probably pay up to 20% more for it! What I am saying is don't make an emotional decision, but a rational one based on factual information. People take things for granted eg phone calls in Europe would be more expensive if we left. Reciprocal health would be at risk etc. The pound will probably cease to be an international trading currency. We knock the Euro, but if the pound is so good why isn't the FX rate higher? There are lots of questions and answers to get before we decide yes or no!"
.
Vags costing more is a good thing! So is a falling pound! My god every country in the world is trying to manipulate there currency downwards, that was the whole point of Germany starting the euro?? How much do you think a BMW would cost if they still had the mark? Let's just say they would quite have been the exporting machine they have been for the last 15 years without that euro... That's why they encouraged countries like Greece, Portugal and Ireland to be in with them!.
But nothing comes free and sooner or later somebody's gonna pay for that 15 years of exporting glory! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"i'm a likely to use the same arguement as i did on the scottish indepenence issue...
I want someone on the "brexit" side to be absolutely honest with me, and not paint me their rosey vision of what they think would happen if they left..... but want to know that absolutely worst thing that could be the consequence of voting to leave....
if i can do that and i can say "well i could live with that"... i'll vote go....
if no one will be honest enough to tell me that... i'll vote stay"
The worst consequence of voting to leave would be waiting 4 years to replace your elected representative rather than waiting to see who the next imposed commisioner is.
Voting to stay in will be an endorsement of the denial of democracy. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Have he really thought this through the pm?
Britain 'faces influx of 50,000 asylum seekers' if it leaves the European Union"
We make our own laws and refuse them entry - quite simple really. If we stay IN we WILL get 250'000 so called EU migrants every year until the country collapses. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *eavenNhell OP Couple
over a year ago
carrbrook stalybridge |
"Were making a big deal about saving 8 billion a year in Euro payments?.
Our balance of trade deficit is about 6 to 10 billon a month!!
"
we are making an even bigger deal about saving £30million a year in benefits to "immigrants " prioritys are all wrong |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
We have got ourselves in a bit of an Eric over the last 44 years. We have been enveloped in a amorphous treacle of Bureaucracy and grandiose United states of Europe empire building. Sadly we have signed up to it now and I personally think it is impossible to get out of it. We are stuck with it now. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *htcMan
over a year ago
MK |
just want out of the eu, we will be better off without europe than with. i have been wanting out of europe since i was about 10 years old when i started seeing the country change, now its just a joke, about what new arrivals from eu and outside eu get for free. will save billions a year, have proper control over the country, and even if europe force us to stop trading with them, just goes elsewhere, sign some more deals with are commonwealth and usa, and asia. block there trade in return. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"We have got ourselves in a bit of an Eric over the last 44 years. We have been enveloped in a amorphous treacle of Bureaucracy and grandiose United states of Europe empire building. Sadly we have signed up to it now and I personally think it is impossible to get out of it. We are stuck with it now."
We just need a majority to vote Leave when the referendum comes. Then we can invoke article 50 and leave the EU for good.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_from_the_European_Union |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Were making a big deal about saving 8 billion a year in Euro payments?.
Our balance of trade deficit is about 6 to 10 billon a month!!
we are making an even bigger deal about saving £30million a year in benefits to "immigrants " prioritys are all wrong "
.
Child benefit is a joke, it's whole purpose was to encourage people to have children to keep population increase going... You don't need people to have kids anymore... You can just let people in Willy nilly, therefore there's absolutely no need for any child benefit to anybody!.
Let's get over this subsidy issue, we couldn't subsidise the coal board forever nor steel nor cars nor railways... But for some reason we CAN subsidise children and fucking houses... The Tories only last week are now giving out 40% deposits on London housing... Find 20 grand get given 200 grand by the government.
We've gone mad! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We have got ourselves in a bit of an Eric over the last 44 years. We have been enveloped in a amorphous treacle of Bureaucracy and grandiose United states of Europe empire building. Sadly we have signed up to it now and I personally think it is impossible to get out of it. We are stuck with it now.
We just need a majority to vote Leave when the referendum comes. Then we can invoke article 50 and leave the EU for good.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_from_the_European_Union"
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Hello all,
EU directives have to be obeyed by all EU members, no ifs or buts. They also make recommendations which may be ignored but in practice there are more directives.
The commission is unelected and you have no influence with them.
I want to have no further part with this sort of dictatorship, let shave control of our own parliament, warts and all. We have a very serious lack of electrical power in the UK, in part due to EU directives in reducing CO2 by a specific amount, compounded by Mr. Milliband getting a law passed making it a legal obligation. Unfortunately he hasn't worked out how we would do it and our attempts have made a bad situation far worse.
It's not worth discussing trade, businesses will go on, even if there is a short term loss. We have had some dreadful economic times in the past and recovered.
Alec
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Have he really thought this through the pm?
Britain 'faces influx of 50,000 asylum seekers' if it leaves the European Union
We make our own laws and refuse them entry - quite simple really. If we stay IN we WILL get 250'000 so called EU migrants every year until the country collapses."
That is right, they are saying south coast of england will be the new jungle. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Have he really thought this through the pm?
Britain 'faces influx of 50,000 asylum seekers' if it leaves the European Union
We make our own laws and refuse them entry - quite simple really. If we stay IN we WILL get 250'000 so called EU migrants every year until the country collapses.That is right, they are saying south coast of england will be the new jungle."
I think TVB4S was saying that we already have a net influx of 250,000 to 300,000 per year while we are already in the EU.
This is despite David Cameron's repeated promises to cut the number down to tens of thousands. He has repeatedly broken those promises because his hands are tied by the EU's free movement of people rules, truth is Cameron can't do anything about it while we remain in the EU. His renegotiation deal has done absolutely nothing to address the issue. When the minimum wage goes upto the living wage it will only attract more to come. Cameron's pitiful reforms on EU migrant benefits won't make a blind bit of difference. Only way to get back control of our borders is to leave the EU.
Also the 'Jungle camp' will not move from Calais to Dover if we leave the EU because the British government has a bilateral agreement with the French government called the Treaty of Le Touquet.
The Treaty of Le Touquet has nothing to do with the EU and is a totally separate agreement. It was signed by Tony Blair's Labour government and Jacque Chirac's government in 2003. You can read about it here...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juxtaposed_controls |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *im himCouple (MM)
over a year ago
bedworth |
"Were making a big deal about saving 8 billion a year in Euro payments?.
Our balance of trade deficit is about 6 to 10 billon a month!!
we are making an even bigger deal about saving £30million a year in benefits to "immigrants " prioritys are all wrong .
Child benefit is a joke, it's whole purpose was to encourage people to have children to keep population increase going... You don't need people to have kids anymore... You can just let people in Willy nilly, therefore there's absolutely no need for any child benefit to anybody!.
Let's get over this subsidy issue, we couldn't subsidise the coal board forever nor steel nor cars nor railways... But for some reason we CAN subsidise children and fucking houses... The Tories only last week are now giving out 40% deposits on London housing... Find 20 grand get given 200 grand by the government.
We've gone mad!"
We can still subsidise the wankers , sorry the bankers though . This is what has happened
over the years . All said and done we used to subsidise the people , yes it out of control and needed reform but all we have done is move this money that used to subsidise the people to the rich . I e the bankers !
Governments are now controlled by banks , its only big banks and big business that want us to stay in as it suits them . Look at Greece and there so called bale out . It's was not there people or their government that was bales out but the banks ! Let's get out before it really goes tits up , as its going to . Another reason why were proberly having this vote so early . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
""For me I just want self determination and regardless of what they tell you, you don't get that with the EU."
And that is one of the greatest misunderstandings that is put about;
Any EU country has self determination; they all have independent parliaments; no EU law is binding until the countrie's own parliament votes it in; our parliament can refuse to vote in ANY new EU law; it chooses not to bother, but passes them all on a nod without any debate.
Bearing in mind, no EU proposed law can even be promulgated to EU countries without the approval of the Council of Ministers ( of which The UKs elected and appointed ministers are part ) - and not ( as is always wrongly stated, MEPs)
There is one place where we (Britain) as a nation truly do lack influence. That place is Brussels and the European Parliament. There have been 55 occasions where the UK voted against an EU measure in the Council of Ministers (the figure is deceptively low, because by tradition, countries rarely push matters to the vote when they can see that they will lose). Guess how many times out of those 55, we (Britain) succeeded in blocking the measure? That's right, ZERO!
That literally is, Zero influence.
www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2800998/daniel-hannan-no-mr-eurocrat-place-britain-irrelevant-inside-eu.html"
It's hard to tell how some people count influence. The same paper that Hannan refers to in the daily Mail tells us that over the same period the UK voted yes to 2800 measures. That's 94.4% worth of influence using your counting system. (Not counting the 100 times we didn't bother to vote).
The list of 55 should really be 52 at most since there's at least one cut and paste error where they count the same thing four times - I'm sure that's a mistake and not confirmation bias.
You'd be hard pushed to call some of votes major issues of national sovereignty for the UK. Unless you really believe that, some of the following that the UK stood alone against are tragic losses to our Parliament's power:
The 2001 amendment of a regulation on the common organisation of the market in bananas. This increased import quotas of bananas when there was a shortage. God knows why we're against bananas.
The 1998 Regulation to improve animal protection standards for livestock on journeys exceeding eight hours. I seem to remember the fuss at the time about the cruel conditions used, why would we vote against this?
The 1997 regulation on the common organization of the market in wine which takes about 40 pages to describe a fine wine and what's good to be in it and what's not. I would vote against that for being the most boring document ever, but its effect on our national sovereignty is zero.
Of the 52 no votes (ignoring the 3 duplicates) the UK stood alone 20 times (sometimes alone against bananas, wine and welfare of livestock).
For 32 no votes the UK had other countries along with it, typically from the northern european bloc: Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, France . That's what influence is about - carrying others with you and making alliances -even if at the time unsuccessful, that pays off in the long run.
So which of the 52 no votes do you think are real matters of UK sovereignty? Or do you think we should really be hot under the collar about all of them without thinking about what they apply to?
How about the one that was supposed to reduce suffering of livestock during transport? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
One of our options is to join EFTA. the fee for which is outside the direct control of the EU, and the EU would bve legally obliged to honour the terms.
"
If the UK applied to join EFTA, the EFTA countries would vote on whether or not they want the UK to join. I doubt that anyone has asked them yet if they'd like that, have they? They might say 'we're doing very nicely without you thanks, UK, why should we want some one to join us who has a track record as being very unhappy as part of a trading group? How will we know that you'll play nicely? How do we know that you'll not starting moaning about the EFTA surveillance committee (their equivalent of the EU commission) or the EFTA Court, their body that corresponds to the European court of justice?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Were making a big deal about saving 8 billion a year in Euro payments?.
Our balance of trade deficit is about 6 to 10 billon a month!!
we are making an even bigger deal about saving £30million a year in benefits to "immigrants " prioritys are all wrong .
Child benefit is a joke, it's whole purpose was to encourage people to have children to keep population increase going... You don't need people to have kids anymore... You can just let people in Willy nilly, therefore there's absolutely no need for any child benefit to anybody!.
Let's get over this subsidy issue, we couldn't subsidise the coal board forever nor steel nor cars nor railways... But for some reason we CAN subsidise children and fucking houses... The Tories only last week are now giving out 40% deposits on London housing... Find 20 grand get given 200 grand by the government.
We've gone mad!
We can still subsidise the wankers , sorry the bankers though . This is what has happened
over the years . All said and done we used to subsidise the people , yes it out of control and needed reform but all we have done is move this money that used to subsidise the people to the rich . I e the bankers !
Governments are now controlled by banks , its only big banks and big business that want us to stay in as it suits them . Look at Greece and there so called bale out . It's was not there people or their government that was bales out but the banks ! Let's get out before it really goes tits up , as its going to . Another reason why were proberly having this vote so early . "
.
I don't belive in subsidising anyone unless it's necessary to state needs!.
So we don't need kids anymore so that subsidie should be faded out.
Im really really against subsidising banks, if there to big to fail there to big to exist, break them up and create lots of small banks that you can allow to fail when they fail... That's the whole point of capitalism.
There's meant to be incentives to make people do stuff, what we've got now is all the wrong incentives for all the wrong stuff!.
0% interest is incentivising a booming stock price and a housing boom all of which will come to haunt us sometime soon!.
As my original post suggests... A crashed pound maybe the best bet for the UK! Not the worst |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Have he really thought this through the pm?
Britain 'faces influx of 50,000 asylum seekers' if it leaves the European Union
We make our own laws and refuse them entry - quite simple really. If we stay IN we WILL get 250'000 so called EU migrants every year until the country collapses.That is right, they are saying south coast of england will be the new jungle."
The South Coast already IS a jungle.. A UK law made by an EU free UK government can REFUSE entry to ANYONE it wishes... Remaining IN the EU will see those of us here paying (not only literally through taxes but also our standard of living, quality of life etc) for the housing, education, welfare benefits, living space - for a population the size of the city of Coventry EVERY year - as we have had to do for the around the past 10 years. It just can't go on and whatever "dire" threats the pro EU scaremongers chant at us it can't be any worse than the damage already done to this country. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
What people do not realise is all the migrants need to do is get to Southern Ireland as there's no border control between there and the north which means they can walk drive even catch a train in to Northern Ireland and from there straight in to main land Britain |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What people do not realise is all the migrants need to do is get to Southern Ireland as there's no border control between there and the north which means they can walk drive even catch a train in to Northern Ireland and from there straight in to main land Britain "
...but a strong government will either return them to country of origin or failing that to point of entry (Ireland), refuse them benefits and keep them interned. As they are illegal immigrants they are in effect criminals and being in breach of the laws of entry to this country can be imprisoned if they refuse to leave. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Norways arrangement is better than EU membership, Switzerland have a better deal than Norway, and in the event of Brexit Britain can expect a much better deal than Switzerland....
www.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/what-brexit-would-look-like-for-britain/"
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What people do not realise is all the migrants need to do is get to Southern Ireland as there's no border control between there and the north which means they can walk drive even catch a train in to Northern Ireland and from there straight in to main land Britain
...but a strong government will either return them to country of origin or failing that to point of entry (Ireland), refuse them benefits and keep them interned. As they are illegal immigrants they are in effect criminals and being in breach of the laws of entry to this country can be imprisoned if they refuse to leave."
.
Just pick them up and drop them off where they started
If you did it for six months...
Nobody would bother trying!
It's like all these criminals smashing into Lorries in Calais.. Just fucking drop them off back in Libya with a note saying... Try applying for a visa like every fucker else! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
