FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Smoking in prison
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"I think that should be left up to prison guards, that's who have to deal with the fall out, " Ah but surely prison guards aren't allowed to smoke in their workplace..... | |||
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"I think that should be left up to prison guards, that's who have to deal with the fall out, Ah but surely prison guards aren't allowed to smoke in their workplace..... " It is a smoking at work issue | |||
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"I think that should be left up to prison guards, that's who have to deal with the fall out, Ah but surely prison guards aren't allowed to smoke in their workplace..... It is a smoking at work issue" Oh come-come don't sit on the fence..... | |||
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"Ban or not to ban ?.... that is the question ! Whether tis noble to let lags have fags or suffer the pangs of withdrawal...... " Let them smoke | |||
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"Ban or not to ban ?.... that is the question ! Whether tis noble to let lags have fags or suffer the pangs of withdrawal...... " BAN...and the reason for my answer? Well we can't smoke in public i.e my local boozer and we've done f**k all wrong! After all they're in prison for a reason so why should they have all the liberties? and we the law abiding public can't! G. | |||
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"Ban or not to ban ?.... that is the question ! Whether tis noble to let lags have fags or suffer the pangs of withdrawal...... BAN...and the reason for my answer? Well we can't smoke in public i.e my local boozer and we've done f**k all wrong! After all they're in prison for a reason so why should they have all the liberties? and we the law abiding public can't! G." Are cells classed as a public place though? They can smoke in their cells and excercise yard but not on the wings | |||
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"I think that should be left up to prison guards, that's who have to deal with the fall out, Ah but surely prison guards aren't allowed to smoke in their workplace..... It is a smoking at work issue Oh come-come don't sit on the fence..... " Give em cigs, alcohol and call girls, free season tickets for the nearest premier match and £300 spending money | |||
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"Ban they shouldn't have any luxuries whatsoever inside they are in there as a punishement" Very true. Truck load of vapes on the way to Strangeways is it . | |||
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"how would the screws make their bit'o dosh on the side from selling snout to lags though?" A coin operated glory-hole seems a reasonable option,,,,,,, could even have a slot for tokens earned for good behaviour.... | |||
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"Ban or not to ban ?.... that is the question ! Whether tis noble to let lags have fags or suffer the pangs of withdrawal...... BAN...and the reason for my answer? Well we can't smoke in public i.e my local boozer and we've done f**k all wrong! After all they're in prison for a reason so why should they have all the liberties? and we the law abiding public can't! G. Are cells classed as a public place though? They can smoke in their cells and excercise yard but not on the wings " Shouldn't be allowed full stop! As i said why should cons be allowed any liberties? They've obviously broke the law somehow! Suffer the consequences..including NO SMOKING...Simples G. | |||
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"Ban or not to ban ?.... that is the question ! Whether tis noble to let lags have fags or suffer the pangs of withdrawal...... BAN...and the reason for my answer? Well we can't smoke in public i.e my local boozer and we've done f**k all wrong! After all they're in prison for a reason so why should they have all the liberties? and we the law abiding public can't! G." Let them smoke but charge double tax let them pay for the honour of serving time in her majesty's prison! -Ads | |||
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"Supply them with vape pens and an allocation of liquid and give them the tools to quit the habit. Can only be a positive can't it?" Some of them would make weapons out of vape pens. | |||
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"Ban or not to ban ?.... that is the question ! Whether tis noble to let lags have fags or suffer the pangs of withdrawal...... BAN...and the reason for my answer? Well we can't smoke in public i.e my local boozer and we've done f**k all wrong! After all they're in prison for a reason so why should they have all the liberties? and we the law abiding public can't! G." A prison isnt a public place though it's to all intense and purpose their home and private property so the smoking laws don't apply It's upto the prison if they allow smoking in there same as its upto me if I let people smoke in my house | |||
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"Ban or not to ban ?.... that is the question ! Whether tis noble to let lags have fags or suffer the pangs of withdrawal...... BAN...and the reason for my answer? Well we can't smoke in public i.e my local boozer and we've done f**k all wrong! After all they're in prison for a reason so why should they have all the liberties? and we the law abiding public can't! G. A prison isnt a public place though it's to all intense and purpose their home and private property so the smoking laws don't apply It's upto the prison if they allow smoking in there same as its upto me if I let people smoke in my house " But i dont smoke and i have rights i just want the £300 | |||
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"Ban or not to ban ?.... that is the question ! Whether tis noble to let lags have fags or suffer the pangs of withdrawal...... BAN...and the reason for my answer? Well we can't smoke in public i.e my local boozer and we've done f**k all wrong! After all they're in prison for a reason so why should they have all the liberties? and we the law abiding public can't! G. A prison isnt a public place though it's to all intense and purpose their home and private property so the smoking laws don't apply It's upto the prison if they allow smoking in there same as its upto me if I let people smoke in my house " Should be part of the penalty and sentence for whatever it is they did to be in prison for in the 1st place! NO SMOKING.... G. | |||
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"The Uk penal system (he he he I said penal) is intended to reform not punish, for right or wrong, so it would be tricky to ban them as it could easily be interpreted as a punitive action" Is it? I really don't think we have decided whether punishment or rehabilitation is the main purpose of our prison system. Nor do I think it would be easy to make such a decision. | |||
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"Yeah they're all scum. We should never be flexible to their demands and we're all saints. We never do anything wrong." Speak for yourself,I don't do anything bad enough to get me a prison sentence I know that | |||
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"Ban they shouldn't have any luxuries whatsoever inside they are in there as a punishement" You can't take everything away from people in prison, luxories are what keep them in line, if you take everything away from prisoners they have no hope and nothing to look forwards to, you have nothing to barter with either Whats to stop them rioting etc if they have nothing to loose I would suspect that giving them fags and treat for good behaviour is as much for the prison guards safty as much as anything else | |||
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"Ban they shouldn't have any luxuries whatsoever inside they are in there as a punishement You can't take everything away from people in prison, luxories are what keep them in line, if you take everything away from prisoners they have no hope and nothing to look forwards to, you have nothing to barter with either Whats to stop them rioting etc if they have nothing to loose I would suspect that giving them fags and treat for good behaviour is as much for the prison guards safty as much as anything else " Why bother locking em up in the first place? | |||
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"Ban they shouldn't have any luxuries whatsoever inside they are in there as a punishement You can't take everything away from people in prison, luxories are what keep them in line, if you take everything away from prisoners they have no hope and nothing to look forwards to, you have nothing to barter with either Whats to stop them rioting etc if they have nothing to loose I would suspect that giving them fags and treat for good behaviour is as much for the prison guards safty as much as anything else " Why should they have luxories tho for breaking the law? | |||
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"Where somewhere is classed as a place of residence, smoking is allowed (to my knowledge) much in the same way as many hotels still offer smoking rooms." Well i never knew that bars in hotels had smoke rooms | |||
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"Ban they shouldn't have any luxuries whatsoever inside they are in there as a punishement You can't take everything away from people in prison, luxories are what keep them in line, if you take everything away from prisoners they have no hope and nothing to look forwards to, you have nothing to barter with either Whats to stop them rioting etc if they have nothing to loose I would suspect that giving them fags and treat for good behaviour is as much for the prison guards safty as much as anything else Why bother locking em up in the first place?" Yeah your right just let the murders carry on murdering, may as well if they're allowed a fag Getting silly now | |||
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"Acute psychiatric units, long-term secure hospitals and residential placements have long since adhered to the ban. There was enormous resistance amongst staff and patients to the changes, and great anxiety about the effects - but it has generally worked well. There is no reason not to enforce it in the prison system." I think this covers it for me. What about the rights of the non-smoking inmates? | |||
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"Acute psychiatric units, long-term secure hospitals and residential placements have long since adhered to the ban. There was enormous resistance amongst staff and patients to the changes, and great anxiety about the effects - but it has generally worked well. There is no reason not to enforce it in the prison system. I think this covers it for me. What about the rights of the non-smoking inmates? " | |||
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"Where somewhere is classed as a place of residence, smoking is allowed (to my knowledge) much in the same way as many hotels still offer smoking rooms." where can you smoke in a hospital then? | |||
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"Stop them having butter on their bread and gravy. Why should they be allowed any luxuries? " | |||
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"Ban they shouldn't have any luxuries whatsoever inside they are in there as a punishement You can't take everything away from people in prison, luxories are what keep them in line, if you take everything away from prisoners they have no hope and nothing to look forwards to, you have nothing to barter with either Whats to stop them rioting etc if they have nothing to loose I would suspect that giving them fags and treat for good behaviour is as much for the prison guards safty as much as anything else Why bother locking em up in the first place? Yeah your right just let the murders carry on murdering, may as well if they're allowed a fag Getting silly now " Yes smoking kills give em extra long cigs | |||
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"I couldn't care less, as it doesn't really effect me!. I think the guy who said let the guard's choose had it right" I agree I think it should come down to the prison and the people who work there to choose After all they are the ones who have to deal with them when they are pissed off, its ok us all saying don't like them smoke but we don't have to deal with the aftermath do we | |||
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"Yeah they're all scum. We should never be flexible to their demands and we're all saints. We never do anything wrong." Well im not the one in jail... | |||
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"how would the screws make their bit'o dosh on the side from selling snout to lags though? A coin operated glory-hole seems a reasonable option,,,,,,, could even have a slot for tokens earned for good behaviour.... " And on the receiving side of the glory hole. .. A higher priced coin slot for the lags "wot likes a bit of cock" | |||
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"Ban or not to ban ?.... that is the question ! Whether tis noble to let lags have fags or suffer the pangs of withdrawal...... BAN...and the reason for my answer? Well we can't smoke in public i.e my local boozer and we've done f**k all wrong! After all they're in prison for a reason so why should they have all the liberties? and we the law abiding public can't! G." The law abiding public like us should have the right to breathe clean air while we enjoy a night out....letting others breathe in second hand shit is wrong and the law right | |||
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"how would the screws make their bit'o dosh on the side from selling snout to lags though? A coin operated glory-hole seems a reasonable option,,,,,,, could even have a slot for tokens earned for good behaviour.... " that's a pointless idea while the showers are free ..... can't see the screws wanting to give up their contraband smuggling rackets tbh | |||
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"Ban or not to ban ?.... that is the question ! Whether tis noble to let lags have fags or suffer the pangs of withdrawal...... BAN...and the reason for my answer? Well we can't smoke in public i.e my local boozer and we've done f**k all wrong! After all they're in prison for a reason so why should they have all the liberties? and we the law abiding public can't! G. Are cells classed as a public place though? They can smoke in their cells and excercise yard but not on the wings Shouldn't be allowed full stop! As i said why should cons be allowed any liberties? They've obviously broke the law somehow! Suffer the consequences..including NO SMOKING...Simples G." Not all people in prison have broken the law. Miscarriages of justice do happen. The justice system is not perfect, any system governed by people will never be perfect, as people are not perfect in nature. Their punishment for committing crimes is the lack of freedom. The public have the option to smoke in their own home. Prison is home for the people convicted. If we ban it in their "home", we should ban it in all homes. | |||
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"Where somewhere is classed as a place of residence, smoking is allowed (to my knowledge) much in the same way as many hotels still offer smoking rooms.where can you smoke in a hospital then?" You can't any more; and lots of hospitals don't even let you smoke outside in the grounds anymore. As for hotels; there are no " smoking" bars, but they are still legally able to offer smoking bedrooms. Most don't though.... | |||
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"The Uk penal system (he he he I said penal) is intended to reform not punish, for right or wrong, so it would be tricky to ban them as it could easily be interpreted as a punitive action Is it? I really don't think we have decided whether punishment or rehabilitation is the main purpose of our prison system. Nor do I think it would be easy to make such a decision." Send them all back in time in Doctor who`s tardis 130 years no luxurys in them days a bread crust and Some water for many or watered down porridge or perhaps a bible to read if they could for their sins. | |||
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" Not all people in prison have broken the law. Miscarriages of justice do happen. " 99.99% have broken the law! Sticking to my guns.. Stop them smoking! As someone posted earlier maybe a prison smoking ban may make them think before they do anything to get them banged up in the 1st place! G | |||
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" Not all people in prison have broken the law. Miscarriages of justice do happen. 99.99% have broken the law! Sticking to my guns.. Stop them smoking! As someone posted earlier maybe a prison smoking ban may make them think before they do anything to get them banged up in the 1st place! G " There are 3500 magistrate convictions per year alone that get quashed at crown court level. An average of 10 wrongful convictions every day. Miscarriages of justice are a normal daily routine in the justice system contrary to popular belief. Most miscarriages of justice are just not high profile enough to make media coverage. On another note; If the lack of freedom doesn't deter criminals, why would a smoking ban? | |||
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"First up, the ban is coming, so the OP's question is immaterial: the government is bringing in a complete ban that all prisons will enforce by the end of the year. The repercussions are, frankly, worrying and a little frightening. As someone who works in a prison, I worry how the inmates will react and the consequent possibility of violence to staff. It is inevitable that the ban will cause a great deal of bullying within prisons as cigarettes become even more sought after than they are now. Those who say "Fuck 'em" ought to think how they would like to have to deal with sometimes very violent characters when you have taken away one of the only pleasures they currently have" The OP is about inviting discussion ..... It's not telling people what to think,,, | |||
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"First up, the ban is coming, so the OP's question is immaterial: the government is bringing in a complete ban that all prisons will enforce by the end of the year. The repercussions are, frankly, worrying and a little frightening. As someone who works in a prison, I worry how the inmates will react and the consequent possibility of violence to staff. It is inevitable that the ban will cause a great deal of bullying within prisons as cigarettes become even more sought after than they are now. Those who say "Fuck 'em" ought to think how they would like to have to deal with sometimes very violent characters when you have taken away one of the only pleasures they currently have The OP is about inviting discussion ..... It's not telling people what to think,,," I understand. I just thought it was worth pointing out that the issue is beyond debate: the government has already decided. Many of the posts above seem to indicate that many people don't realise this. That's all | |||
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"First up, the ban is coming, so the OP's question is immaterial: the government is bringing in a complete ban that all prisons will enforce by the end of the year. The repercussions are, frankly, worrying and a little frightening. As someone who works in a prison, I worry how the inmates will react and the consequent possibility of violence to staff. It is inevitable that the ban will cause a great deal of bullying within prisons as cigarettes become even more sought after than they are now. Those who say "Fuck 'em" ought to think how they would like to have to deal with sometimes very violent characters when you have taken away one of the only pleasures they currently have The OP is about inviting discussion ..... It's not telling people what to think,,, I understand. I just thought it was worth pointing out that the issue is beyond debate: the government has already decided. Many of the posts above seem to indicate that many people don't realise this. That's all " | |||
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"First up, the ban is coming, so the OP's question is immaterial: the government is bringing in a complete ban that all prisons will enforce by the end of the year. The repercussions are, frankly, worrying and a little frightening. As someone who works in a prison, I worry how the inmates will react and the consequent possibility of violence to staff. It is inevitable that the ban will cause a great deal of bullying within prisons as cigarettes become even more sought after than they are now. Those who say "Fuck 'em" ought to think how they would like to have to deal with sometimes very violent characters when you have taken away one of the only pleasures they currently have" They are convicted criminals! (muggings, granny bashing, rape,assult etc etc) what pleasure do their victims get??? why should they (the cons) be allowed any pleasure?... if they didnt commit the crime they wouldnt be there in the 1st place simple as...and we wouldn't be having this debate! | |||
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"First up, the ban is coming, so the OP's question is immaterial: the government is bringing in a complete ban that all prisons will enforce by the end of the year. The repercussions are, frankly, worrying and a little frightening. As someone who works in a prison, I worry how the inmates will react and the consequent possibility of violence to staff. It is inevitable that the ban will cause a great deal of bullying within prisons as cigarettes become even more sought after than they are now. Those who say "Fuck 'em" ought to think how they would like to have to deal with sometimes very violent characters when you have taken away one of the only pleasures they currently have They are convicted criminals! (muggings, granny bashing, rape,assult etc etc) what pleasure do their victims get??? why should they (the cons) be allowed any pleasure?... if they didnt commit the crime they wouldnt be there in the 1st place simple as...and we wouldn't be having this debate!" I was thinking more about the potential for violence against staff than anything else. I strongly suspect the ban will see riots within the prisons, putting staff in very grave danger. Are you not concerned about that possibility? | |||
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"First up, the ban is coming, so the OP's question is immaterial: the government is bringing in a complete ban that all prisons will enforce by the end of the year. The repercussions are, frankly, worrying and a little frightening. As someone who works in a prison, I worry how the inmates will react and the consequent possibility of violence to staff. It is inevitable that the ban will cause a great deal of bullying within prisons as cigarettes become even more sought after than they are now. Those who say "Fuck 'em" ought to think how they would like to have to deal with sometimes very violent characters when you have taken away one of the only pleasures they currently have They are convicted criminals! (muggings, granny bashing, rape,assult etc etc) what pleasure do their victims get??? why should they (the cons) be allowed any pleasure?... if they didnt commit the crime they wouldnt be there in the 1st place simple as...and we wouldn't be having this debate! I was thinking more about the potential for violence against staff than anything else. I strongly suspect the ban will see riots within the prisons, putting staff in very grave danger. Are you not concerned about that possibility?" People choose to be prison wardens just like I chose to be a firefighter we all know the risks and dangers that come with the job sorry.. | |||
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"First up, the ban is coming, so the OP's question is immaterial: the government is bringing in a complete ban that all prisons will enforce by the end of the year. The repercussions are, frankly, worrying and a little frightening. As someone who works in a prison, I worry how the inmates will react and the consequent possibility of violence to staff. It is inevitable that the ban will cause a great deal of bullying within prisons as cigarettes become even more sought after than they are now. Those who say "Fuck 'em" ought to think how they would like to have to deal with sometimes very violent characters when you have taken away one of the only pleasures they currently have They are convicted criminals! (muggings, granny bashing, rape,assult etc etc) what pleasure do their victims get??? why should they (the cons) be allowed any pleasure?... if they didnt commit the crime they wouldnt be there in the 1st place simple as...and we wouldn't be having this debate! I was thinking more about the potential for violence against staff than anything else. I strongly suspect the ban will see riots within the prisons, putting staff in very grave danger. Are you not concerned about that possibility? People choose to be prison wardens just like I chose to be a firefighter we all know the risks and dangers that come with the job sorry.." Very touching attitude. I assume if you hear of soldiers dying in foreign fields you have the same attitude? | |||
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"No it shouldn't be banned in prisons. I've only just finished at g4s after 2 years and as a former custody officer anything that keeps the prisoners happy makes for a safer environment for those working there. " Fuck them,let them suffer the dregs of society ,why reward them whilst being punished ,if they step out of line hose the filth down,segregate and make them suffer,why pander to criminals,Prison officers if you cant handle it get a job in daycare for pensioners | |||
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"No it shouldn't be banned in prisons. I've only just finished at g4s after 2 years and as a former custody officer anything that keeps the prisoners happy makes for a safer environment for those working there. Fuck them,let them suffer the dregs of society ,why reward them whilst being punished ,if they step out of line hose the filth down,segregate and make them suffer,why pander to criminals,Prison officers if you cant handle it get a job in daycare for pensioners " It's not about not handling it it's more the fact that we are unarmed, we don't have truncheons or stab vests or anything on a regular day. We have trousers a shirt and a jumper or fleece for protection. I don't have sympathy for prisoners but it's just good sense to try and keep things peaceful and calm when you're dealing with very violent people. | |||
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"First up, the ban is coming, so the OP's question is immaterial: the government is bringing in a complete ban that all prisons will enforce by the end of the year. The repercussions are, frankly, worrying and a little frightening. As someone who works in a prison, I worry how the inmates will react and the consequent possibility of violence to staff. It is inevitable that the ban will cause a great deal of bullying within prisons as cigarettes become even more sought after than they are now. Those who say "Fuck 'em" ought to think how they would like to have to deal with sometimes very violent characters when you have taken away one of the only pleasures they currently have They are convicted criminals! (muggings, granny bashing, rape,assult etc etc) what pleasure do their victims get??? why should they (the cons) be allowed any pleasure?... if they didnt commit the crime they wouldnt be there in the 1st place simple as...and we wouldn't be having this debate! I was thinking more about the potential for violence against staff than anything else. I strongly suspect the ban will see riots within the prisons, putting staff in very grave danger. Are you not concerned about that possibility? People choose to be prison wardens just like I chose to be a firefighter we all know the risks and dangers that come with the job sorry.. Very touching attitude. I assume if you hear of soldiers dying in foreign fields you have the same attitude? " SOLDIERS DYING IN FOREIGN FIELDS Different debate for a different day! Please do not hijack the OP's post thanks. | |||
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"First up, the ban is coming, so the OP's question is immaterial: the government is bringing in a complete ban that all prisons will enforce by the end of the year. The repercussions are, frankly, worrying and a little frightening. As someone who works in a prison, I worry how the inmates will react and the consequent possibility of violence to staff. It is inevitable that the ban will cause a great deal of bullying within prisons as cigarettes become even more sought after than they are now. Those who say "Fuck 'em" ought to think how they would like to have to deal with sometimes very violent characters when you have taken away one of the only pleasures they currently have" I work in both prisons and secure hospitals amongst some of the most damaged and unpredictable people imaginable. The same arguments were floated before the smoking ban in the hospitals. Whilst there were initially some problems, everyone has generally been surprised at the ease of transition. If you treat human beings with dignity, which includes caring about their health, then they will often respond in far more positive ways than expected. | |||
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"First up, the ban is coming, so the OP's question is immaterial: the government is bringing in a complete ban that all prisons will enforce by the end of the year. The repercussions are, frankly, worrying and a little frightening. As someone who works in a prison, I worry how the inmates will react and the consequent possibility of violence to staff. It is inevitable that the ban will cause a great deal of bullying within prisons as cigarettes become even more sought after than they are now. Those who say "Fuck 'em" ought to think how they would like to have to deal with sometimes very violent characters when you have taken away one of the only pleasures they currently have I work in both prisons and secure hospitals amongst some of the most damaged and unpredictable people imaginable. The same arguments were floated before the smoking ban in the hospitals. Whilst there were initially some problems, everyone has generally been surprised at the ease of transition. If you treat human beings with dignity, which includes caring about their health, then they will often respond in far more positive ways than expected." Did them in prison treat their victims with dignity? Prison should be that 4 walls nothing else, no luxuries, no jobs nothing, locked up with all liberties taken away | |||
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"First up, the ban is coming, so the OP's question is immaterial: the government is bringing in a complete ban that all prisons will enforce by the end of the year. The repercussions are, frankly, worrying and a little frightening. As someone who works in a prison, I worry how the inmates will react and the consequent possibility of violence to staff. It is inevitable that the ban will cause a great deal of bullying within prisons as cigarettes become even more sought after than they are now. Those who say "Fuck 'em" ought to think how they would like to have to deal with sometimes very violent characters when you have taken away one of the only pleasures they currently have I work in both prisons and secure hospitals amongst some of the most damaged and unpredictable people imaginable. The same arguments were floated before the smoking ban in the hospitals. Whilst there were initially some problems, everyone has generally been surprised at the ease of transition. If you treat human beings with dignity, which includes caring about their health, then they will often respond in far more positive ways than expected. Did them in prison treat their victims with dignity? Prison should be that 4 walls nothing else, no luxuries, no jobs nothing, locked up with all liberties taken away" Treat a person like an animal, and that's how they will act. | |||
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" Treat a person like an animal, and that's how they will act." Same goes for the victims, sorry but people make the choice to be a criminal and break the law | |||
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"First up, the ban is coming, so the OP's question is immaterial: the government is bringing in a complete ban that all prisons will enforce by the end of the year. The repercussions are, frankly, worrying and a little frightening. As someone who works in a prison, I worry how the inmates will react and the consequent possibility of violence to staff. It is inevitable that the ban will cause a great deal of bullying within prisons as cigarettes become even more sought after than they are now. Those who say "Fuck 'em" ought to think how they would like to have to deal with sometimes very violent characters when you have taken away one of the only pleasures they currently have I work in both prisons and secure hospitals amongst some of the most damaged and unpredictable people imaginable. The same arguments were floated before the smoking ban in the hospitals. Whilst there were initially some problems, everyone has generally been surprised at the ease of transition. If you treat human beings with dignity, which includes caring about their health, then they will often respond in far more positive ways than expected. Did them in prison treat their victims with dignity? Prison should be that 4 walls nothing else, no luxuries, no jobs nothing, locked up with all liberties taken away Treat a person like an animal, and that's how they will act." kick stab and isolate that animal until it learns conforms or dies. | |||
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"kick stab and isolate that animal until it learns conforms or dies. " | |||
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"kick stab and isolate that animal until it learns conforms or dies. " Goodness me. Words fail me..... | |||
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"First up, the ban is coming, so the OP's question is immaterial: the government is bringing in a complete ban that all prisons will enforce by the end of the year. The repercussions are, frankly, worrying and a little frightening. As someone who works in a prison, I worry how the inmates will react and the consequent possibility of violence to staff. It is inevitable that the ban will cause a great deal of bullying within prisons as cigarettes become even more sought after than they are now. Those who say "Fuck 'em" ought to think how they would like to have to deal with sometimes very violent characters when you have taken away one of the only pleasures they currently have They are convicted criminals! (muggings, granny bashing, rape,assult etc etc) what pleasure do their victims get??? why should they (the cons) be allowed any pleasure?... if they didnt commit the crime they wouldnt be there in the 1st place simple as...and we wouldn't be having this debate! I was thinking more about the potential for violence against staff than anything else. I strongly suspect the ban will see riots within the prisons, putting staff in very grave danger. Are you not concerned about that possibility? People choose to be prison wardens just like I chose to be a firefighter we all know the risks and dangers that come with the job sorry.. Very touching attitude. I assume if you hear of soldiers dying in foreign fields you have the same attitude? SOLDIERS DYING IN FOREIGN FIELDS Different debate for a different day! Please do not hijack the OP's post thanks." Actually this is very relevant as it broached the same subject. People choose to be soldiers, people choose to be wardens and custody officers, so is the attitude towards both professions the same? Very relevant question given the direction that was taken with the comment. | |||
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"No it shouldn't be banned in prisons. I've only just finished at g4s after 2 years and as a former custody officer anything that keeps the prisoners happy makes for a safer environment for those working there. " Wow, hard to believe we've got something in common lol. Survivors of G4S. The bastards. | |||
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"I love how its assumed all prisoners are nasty pieces of work who have done terrible things. What a bout people who have commited fraud because they didnt understand the tax system " Yeah that was my excuse... | |||
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"First up, the ban is coming, so the OP's question is immaterial: the government is bringing in a complete ban that all prisons will enforce by the end of the year. The repercussions are, frankly, worrying and a little frightening. As someone who works in a prison, I worry how the inmates will react and the consequent possibility of violence to staff. It is inevitable that the ban will cause a great deal of bullying within prisons as cigarettes become even more sought after than they are now. Those who say "Fuck 'em" ought to think how they would like to have to deal with sometimes very violent characters when you have taken away one of the only pleasures they currently have They are convicted criminals! (muggings, granny bashing, rape,assult etc etc) what pleasure do their victims get??? why should they (the cons) be allowed any pleasure?... if they didnt commit the crime they wouldnt be there in the 1st place simple as...and we wouldn't be having this debate! I was thinking more about the potential for violence against staff than anything else. I strongly suspect the ban will see riots within the prisons, putting staff in very grave danger. Are you not concerned about that possibility? People choose to be prison wardens just like I chose to be a firefighter we all know the risks and dangers that come with the job sorry.. Very touching attitude. I assume if you hear of soldiers dying in foreign fields you have the same attitude? SOLDIERS DYING IN FOREIGN FIELDS Different debate for a different day! Please do not hijack the OP's post thanks. Actually this is very relevant as it broached the same subject. People choose to be soldiers, people choose to be wardens and custody officers, so is the attitude towards both professions the same? Very relevant question given the direction that was taken with the comment. " Not gonna get drawn into pettyness yes we all do/did jobs with risks and we knew them when taking the job! I myself ran into burning buildings when others were running out I chose to do that job simples....my attitude on the ban of smoking for prisioners remains the same! No luxuries for cons simples!! | |||
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"Ban they shouldn't have any luxuries whatsoever inside they are in there as a punishement" | |||
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"First up, the ban is coming, so the OP's question is immaterial: the government is bringing in a complete ban that all prisons will enforce by the end of the year. The repercussions are, frankly, worrying and a little frightening. As someone who works in a prison, I worry how the inmates will react and the consequent possibility of violence to staff. It is inevitable that the ban will cause a great deal of bullying within prisons as cigarettes become even more sought after than they are now. Those who say "Fuck 'em" ought to think how they would like to have to deal with sometimes very violent characters when you have taken away one of the only pleasures they currently have They are convicted criminals! (muggings, granny bashing, rape,assult etc etc) what pleasure do their victims get??? why should they (the cons) be allowed any pleasure?... if they didnt commit the crime they wouldnt be there in the 1st place simple as...and we wouldn't be having this debate! I was thinking more about the potential for violence against staff than anything else. I strongly suspect the ban will see riots within the prisons, putting staff in very grave danger. Are you not concerned about that possibility? People choose to be prison wardens just like I chose to be a firefighter we all know the risks and dangers that come with the job sorry.. Very touching attitude. I assume if you hear of soldiers dying in foreign fields you have the same attitude? SOLDIERS DYING IN FOREIGN FIELDS Different debate for a different day! Please do not hijack the OP's post thanks. Actually this is very relevant as it broached the same subject. People choose to be soldiers, people choose to be wardens and custody officers, so is the attitude towards both professions the same? Very relevant question given the direction that was taken with the comment. Not gonna get drawn into pettyness yes we all do/did jobs with risks and we knew them when taking the job! I myself ran into burning buildings when others were running out I chose to do that job simples....my attitude on the ban of smoking for prisioners remains the same! No luxuries for cons simples!!" I wasn't trying to be petty, if that's how you think I was being. I agree we all choose our jobs having full disclosure of what is expected. You are entitled to your opinion on who prisoners should be treated and I respect your opinion, although I don't agree with it. | |||
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"First up, the ban is coming, so the OP's question is immaterial: the government is bringing in a complete ban that all prisons will enforce by the end of the year. The repercussions are, frankly, worrying and a little frightening. As someone who works in a prison, I worry how the inmates will react and the consequent possibility of violence to staff. It is inevitable that the ban will cause a great deal of bullying within prisons as cigarettes become even more sought after than they are now. Those who say "Fuck 'em" ought to think how they would like to have to deal with sometimes very violent characters when you have taken away one of the only pleasures they currently have They are convicted criminals! (muggings, granny bashing, rape,assult etc etc) what pleasure do their victims get??? why should they (the cons) be allowed any pleasure?... if they didnt commit the crime they wouldnt be there in the 1st place simple as...and we wouldn't be having this debate! I was thinking more about the potential for violence against staff than anything else. I strongly suspect the ban will see riots within the prisons, putting staff in very grave danger. Are you not concerned about that possibility? People choose to be prison wardens just like I chose to be a firefighter we all know the risks and dangers that come with the job sorry.. Very touching attitude. I assume if you hear of soldiers dying in foreign fields you have the same attitude? SOLDIERS DYING IN FOREIGN FIELDS Different debate for a different day! Please do not hijack the OP's post thanks. Actually this is very relevant as it broached the same subject. People choose to be soldiers, people choose to be wardens and custody officers, so is the attitude towards both professions the same? Very relevant question given the direction that was taken with the comment. Not gonna get drawn into pettyness yes we all do/did jobs with risks and we knew them when taking the job! I myself ran into burning buildings when others were running out I chose to do that job simples....my attitude on the ban of smoking for prisioners remains the same! No luxuries for cons simples!! I wasn't trying to be petty, if that's how you think I was being. I agree we all choose our jobs having full disclosure of what is expected. You are entitled to your opinion on how prisoners should be treated and I respect your opinion, although I don't agree with it. " I'm NOT asking you to agree with it! But if it's of any consolation to you i also respect your opinion! So can we agree to disagree? and leave it now please! | |||
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"First up, the ban is coming, so the OP's question is immaterial: the government is bringing in a complete ban that all prisons will enforce by the end of the year. The repercussions are, frankly, worrying and a little frightening. As someone who works in a prison, I worry how the inmates will react and the consequent possibility of violence to staff. It is inevitable that the ban will cause a great deal of bullying within prisons as cigarettes become even more sought after than they are now. Those who say "Fuck 'em" ought to think how they would like to have to deal with sometimes very violent characters when you have taken away one of the only pleasures they currently have I work in both prisons and secure hospitals amongst some of the most damaged and unpredictable people imaginable. The same arguments were floated before the smoking ban in the hospitals. Whilst there were initially some problems, everyone has generally been surprised at the ease of transition. If you treat human beings with dignity, which includes caring about their health, then they will often respond in far more positive ways than expected. Did them in prison treat their victims with dignity? Prison should be that 4 walls nothing else, no luxuries, no jobs nothing, locked up with all liberties taken away Treat a person like an animal, and that's how they will act.kick stab and isolate that animal until it learns conforms or dies. " How ironic then, that were you to actually work with animals with that philosophy, it would probably be you who ended up in prison, and rightfully so. | |||
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"First up, the ban is coming, so the OP's question is immaterial: the government is bringing in a complete ban that all prisons will enforce by the end of the year. The repercussions are, frankly, worrying and a little frightening. As someone who works in a prison, I worry how the inmates will react and the consequent possibility of violence to staff. It is inevitable that the ban will cause a great deal of bullying within prisons as cigarettes become even more sought after than they are now. Those who say "Fuck 'em" ought to think how they would like to have to deal with sometimes very violent characters when you have taken away one of the only pleasures they currently have I work in both prisons and secure hospitals amongst some of the most damaged and unpredictable people imaginable. The same arguments were floated before the smoking ban in the hospitals. Whilst there were initially some problems, everyone has generally been surprised at the ease of transition. If you treat human beings with dignity, which includes caring about their health, then they will often respond in far more positive ways than expected. Did them in prison treat their victims with dignity? Prison should be that 4 walls nothing else, no luxuries, no jobs nothing, locked up with all liberties taken away Treat a person like an animal, and that's how they will act.kick stab and isolate that animal until it learns conforms or dies. How ironic then, that were you to actually work with animals with that philosophy, it would probably be you who ended up in prison, and rightfully so." S o your punishing someone by giving them 3 meals a day a roof over their heads,gym facilities x boxes...sky tv...and now your saying let them kill the bloke next to them having to breathe in their shit.ok so my comment was strongly worded but you get the jist,step out of line and the punishment becomes more severe to the non detterent prison system we have now,...Can i remind you that animals are killed if they harm humans and im sure you would like the odd pigs throat cut to partake in your fried breakfast,should the slaughter man go to prison and be denied fags ..no fags for lags,they want fags...log onto fab | |||
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"First up, the ban is coming, so the OP's question is immaterial: the government is bringing in a complete ban that all prisons will enforce by the end of the year. The repercussions are, frankly, worrying and a little frightening. As someone who works in a prison, I worry how the inmates will react and the consequent possibility of violence to staff. It is inevitable that the ban will cause a great deal of bullying within prisons as cigarettes become even more sought after than they are now. Those who say "Fuck 'em" ought to think how they would like to have to deal with sometimes very violent characters when you have taken away one of the only pleasures they currently have I work in both prisons and secure hospitals amongst some of the most damaged and unpredictable people imaginable. The same arguments were floated before the smoking ban in the hospitals. Whilst there were initially some problems, everyone has generally been surprised at the ease of transition. If you treat human beings with dignity, which includes caring about their health, then they will often respond in far more positive ways than expected. Did them in prison treat their victims with dignity? Prison should be that 4 walls nothing else, no luxuries, no jobs nothing, locked up with all liberties taken away Treat a person like an animal, and that's how they will act.kick stab and isolate that animal until it learns conforms or dies. How ironic then, that were you to actually work with animals with that philosophy, it would probably be you who ended up in prison, and rightfully so.S o your punishing someone by giving them 3 meals a day a roof over their heads,gym facilities x boxes...sky tv...and now your saying let them kill the bloke next to them having to breathe in their shit.ok so my comment was strongly worded but you get the jist,step out of line and the punishment becomes more severe to the non detterent prison system we have now,...Can i remind you that animals are killed if they harm humans and im sure you would like the odd pigs throat cut to partake in your fried breakfast,should the slaughter man go to prison and be denied fags ..no fags for lags,they want fags...log onto fab " Prison is supposed to rehabilitate for the most part. Deterrents don't work - countries with the death penalty still have crime, and lots of it. | |||
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"Ok, let's get away from all the hang, draw and quarter talk. The prison system is what it is. In my opinion treating anyone cruelly is pointless and counterproductive. Even Churchill advocated rehabilitation and the fair treatment of prisoners. It's simple economics. It costs thousands to keep someone in custody. As taxpayers I'm sure we all want a system that rehabilitates rather than hardens criminals and turns them into recidivists. It's cheaper to not keep banging them up! It's a fine line to tread though and the pendulum swings first one way then the other. The truth is some approaches work for some and other approaches work for others. As regards smoking. You can ban it but then you have to enforce the ban. Extra staff, possibility of more riots and therefore more riot staff. More staff injuries. Also how are you going to prosecute those who have had a fag? At the moment, if you smell cannabis on a wing you urine test the likely offenders. Not sure if similar exists for tobacco. Not forgetting to secure an adjudication in jails you need to have evidence. Lastly, if you ban tobacco you also take away an effective tool for crisis management. The words, tell you what son, fancy a fag whilst we talk about why you are (self harming/making threats/or refusing to do as you're told) do wonders! Bribery? Or jail craft of a wiser screw?" So forget about the rule to everyone else,lets offer the crim a fag and not adhere to the rules once again.... they are there because they cant follow rules and have no moral backbone and to be honest most are as thick as a castle wall,rehabilitation is following rules....its as simple as that. Provide a smoking shelter outside in the yard where tobacco can be purchased and consumed in single measures ie...1 fag at a time,it may help some kick the filthy habit in the long run | |||
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"First up, the ban is coming, so the OP's question is immaterial: the government is bringing in a complete ban that all prisons will enforce by the end of the year. The repercussions are, frankly, worrying and a little frightening. As someone who works in a prison, I worry how the inmates will react and the consequent possibility of violence to staff. It is inevitable that the ban will cause a great deal of bullying within prisons as cigarettes become even more sought after than they are now. Those who say "Fuck 'em" ought to think how they would like to have to deal with sometimes very violent characters when you have taken away one of the only pleasures they currently have I work in both prisons and secure hospitals amongst some of the most damaged and unpredictable people imaginable. The same arguments were floated before the smoking ban in the hospitals. Whilst there were initially some problems, everyone has generally been surprised at the ease of transition. If you treat human beings with dignity, which includes caring about their health, then they will often respond in far more positive ways than expected. Did them in prison treat their victims with dignity? Prison should be that 4 walls nothing else, no luxuries, no jobs nothing, locked up with all liberties taken away Treat a person like an animal, and that's how they will act.kick stab and isolate that animal until it learns conforms or dies. How ironic then, that were you to actually work with animals with that philosophy, it would probably be you who ended up in prison, and rightfully so.S o your punishing someone by giving them 3 meals a day a roof over their heads,gym facilities x boxes...sky tv...and now your saying let them kill the bloke next to them having to breathe in their shit.ok so my comment was strongly worded but you get the jist,step out of line and the punishment becomes more severe to the non detterent prison system we have now,...Can i remind you that animals are killed if they harm humans and im sure you would like the odd pigs throat cut to partake in your fried breakfast,should the slaughter man go to prison and be denied fags ..no fags for lags,they want fags...log onto fab " Food and shelter is part of the basic human rights that are upheld in this country. Any games consoles they have are not given to them, they are paid for out of the very minimal wages they earn for working in the prison; whether it's laundry, leather work or cooking to name a few areas. Most categories of prison don't get sky tv either, they are typically the lower category prisons which are there to allow for integration into society prior to release. Please do research on the subject before you share your "facts." | |||
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"I think the big issue is drugs in prison. Let them smoke cigarettes reasonably, though with protected shelters. The swivel eyed brigade who won't focus on rehabilitation are so out there, with no benefit to wider society, that they deserve their whinging to be ignored. Improve rehabilitation and get prison time to be as effective as possible." | |||
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"First up, the ban is coming, so the OP's question is immaterial: the government is bringing in a complete ban that all prisons will enforce by the end of the year. The repercussions are, frankly, worrying and a little frightening. As someone who works in a prison, I worry how the inmates will react and the consequent possibility of violence to staff. It is inevitable that the ban will cause a great deal of bullying within prisons as cigarettes become even more sought after than they are now. Those who say "Fuck 'em" ought to think how they would like to have to deal with sometimes very violent characters when you have taken away one of the only pleasures they currently have I work in both prisons and secure hospitals amongst some of the most damaged and unpredictable people imaginable. The same arguments were floated before the smoking ban in the hospitals. Whilst there were initially some problems, everyone has generally been surprised at the ease of transition. If you treat human beings with dignity, which includes caring about their health, then they will often respond in far more positive ways than expected. Did them in prison treat their victims with dignity? Prison should be that 4 walls nothing else, no luxuries, no jobs nothing, locked up with all liberties taken away Treat a person like an animal, and that's how they will act.kick stab and isolate that animal until it learns conforms or dies. How ironic then, that were you to actually work with animals with that philosophy, it would probably be you who ended up in prison, and rightfully so.S o your punishing someone by giving them 3 meals a day a roof over their heads,gym facilities x boxes...sky tv...and now your saying let them kill the bloke next to them having to breathe in their shit.ok so my comment was strongly worded but you get the jist,step out of line and the punishment becomes more severe to the non detterent prison system we have now,...Can i remind you that animals are killed if they harm humans and im sure you would like the odd pigs throat cut to partake in your fried breakfast,should the slaughter man go to prison and be denied fags ..no fags for lags,they want fags...log onto fab Food and shelter is part of the basic human rights that are upheld in this country. Any games consoles they have are not given to them, they are paid for out of the very minimal wages they earn for working in the prison; whether it's laundry, leather work or cooking to name a few areas. Most categories of prison don't get sky tv either, they are typically the lower category prisons which are there to allow for integration into society prior to release. Please do research on the subject before you share your "facts."" So there are x boxes and sky in prisons............Fact !!! | |||
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"Ok, let's get away from all the hang, draw and quarter talk. The prison system is what it is. In my opinion treating anyone cruelly is pointless and counterproductive. Even Churchill advocated rehabilitation and the fair treatment of prisoners. It's simple economics. It costs thousands to keep someone in custody. As taxpayers I'm sure we all want a system that rehabilitates rather than hardens criminals and turns them into recidivists. It's cheaper to not keep banging them up! It's a fine line to tread though and the pendulum swings first one way then the other. The truth is some approaches work for some and other approaches work for others. As regards smoking. You can ban it but then you have to enforce the ban. Extra staff, possibility of more riots and therefore more riot staff. More staff injuries. Also how are you going to prosecute those who have had a fag? At the moment, if you smell cannabis on a wing you urine test the likely offenders. Not sure if similar exists for tobacco. Not forgetting to secure an adjudication in jails you need to have evidence. Lastly, if you ban tobacco you also take away an effective tool for crisis management. The words, tell you what son, fancy a fag whilst we talk about why you are (self harming/making threats/or refusing to do as you're told) do wonders! Bribery? Or jail craft of a wiser screw?So forget about the rule to everyone else,lets offer the crim a fag and not adhere to the rules once again.... they are there because they cant follow rules and have no moral backbone and to be honest most are as thick as a castle wall,rehabilitation is following rules....its as simple as that. Provide a smoking shelter outside in the yard where tobacco can be purchased and consumed in single measures ie...1 fag at a time,it may help some kick the filthy habit in the long run" Forget about what rules? Prisoners are allowed to smoke in their cells or the exercise yard and that's all. Their cells are classed as their residence. As for the shelter outside. How do they get to this shelter? After all, it's a jail with locked doors and gates. A staff member would have escort them for each fag. And who would staff the kiosk to dispense the tobacco? Currently prisoners order their tobacco and pay for it weekly out of their earnings....which are extremely meagre. Sky boxes aren't available in the public sector and the newest console allowed is PS2. Effectively consoles have been disallowed. From your extensive knowledge of the criminal classes, you've deduced they are thick. prisoners are a cross section of society and some aren't that bright but many are. Bit like fab really! | |||
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"Ok, let's get away from all the hang, draw and quarter talk. The prison system is what it is. In my opinion treating anyone cruelly is pointless and counterproductive. Even Churchill advocated rehabilitation and the fair treatment of prisoners. It's simple economics. It costs thousands to keep someone in custody. As taxpayers I'm sure we all want a system that rehabilitates rather than hardens criminals and turns them into recidivists. It's cheaper to not keep banging them up! It's a fine line to tread though and the pendulum swings first one way then the other. The truth is some approaches work for some and other approaches work for others. As regards smoking. You can ban it but then you have to enforce the ban. Extra staff, possibility of more riots and therefore more riot staff. More staff injuries. Also how are you going to prosecute those who have had a fag? At the moment, if you smell cannabis on a wing you urine test the likely offenders. Not sure if similar exists for tobacco. Not forgetting to secure an adjudication in jails you need to have evidence. Lastly, if you ban tobacco you also take away an effective tool for crisis management. The words, tell you what son, fancy a fag whilst we talk about why you are (self harming/making threats/or refusing to do as you're told) do wonders! Bribery? Or jail craft of a wiser screw?So forget about the rule to everyone else,lets offer the crim a fag and not adhere to the rules once again.... they are there because they cant follow rules and have no moral backbone and to be honest most are as thick as a castle wall,rehabilitation is following rules....its as simple as that. Provide a smoking shelter outside in the yard where tobacco can be purchased and consumed in single measures ie...1 fag at a time,it may help some kick the filthy habit in the long run Forget about what rules? Prisoners are allowed to smoke in their cells or the exercise yard and that's all. Their cells are classed as their residence. As for the shelter outside. How do they get to this shelter? After all, it's a jail with locked doors and gates. A staff member would have escort them for each fag. And who would staff the kiosk to dispense the tobacco? Currently prisoners order their tobacco and pay for it weekly out of their earnings....which are extremely meagre. Sky boxes aren't available in the public sector and the newest console allowed is PS2. Effectively consoles have been disallowed. From your extensive knowledge of the criminal classes, you've deduced they are thick. prisoners are a cross section of society and some aren't that bright but many are. Bit like fab really!" | |||
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"Ok, let's get away from all the hang, draw and quarter talk. The prison system is what it is. In my opinion treating anyone cruelly is pointless and counterproductive. Even Churchill advocated rehabilitation and the fair treatment of prisoners. It's simple economics. It costs thousands to keep someone in custody. As taxpayers I'm sure we all want a system that rehabilitates rather than hardens criminals and turns them into recidivists. It's cheaper to not keep banging them up! It's a fine line to tread though and the pendulum swings first one way then the other. The truth is some approaches work for some and other approaches work for others. As regards smoking. You can ban it but then you have to enforce the ban. Extra staff, possibility of more riots and therefore more riot staff. More staff injuries. Also how are you going to prosecute those who have had a fag? At the moment, if you smell cannabis on a wing you urine test the likely offenders. Not sure if similar exists for tobacco. Not forgetting to secure an adjudication in jails you need to have evidence. Lastly, if you ban tobacco you also take away an effective tool for crisis management. The words, tell you what son, fancy a fag whilst we talk about why you are (self harming/making threats/or refusing to do as you're told) do wonders! Bribery? Or jail craft of a wiser screw?So forget about the rule to everyone else,lets offer the crim a fag and not adhere to the rules once again.... they are there because they cant follow rules and have no moral backbone and to be honest most are as thick as a castle wall,rehabilitation is following rules....its as simple as that. Provide a smoking shelter outside in the yard where tobacco can be purchased and consumed in single measures ie...1 fag at a time,it may help some kick the filthy habit in the long run Forget about what rules? Prisoners are allowed to smoke in their cells or the exercise yard and that's all. Their cells are classed as their residence. As for the shelter outside. How do they get to this shelter? After all, it's a jail with locked doors and gates. A staff member would have escort them for each fag. And who would staff the kiosk to dispense the tobacco? Currently prisoners order their tobacco and pay for it weekly out of their earnings....which are extremely meagre. Sky boxes aren't available in the public sector and the newest console allowed is PS2. Effectively consoles have been disallowed. From your extensive knowledge of the criminal classes, you've deduced they are thick. prisoners are a cross section of society and some aren't that bright but many are. Bit like fab really! " Perhaps with all the things in the news it would be better just to give all the wrong, evil doers a good talking to and send them home to the live in the same street as you and your ilk. | |||
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"Ok, let's get away from all the hang, draw and quarter talk. The prison system is what it is. In my opinion treating anyone cruelly is pointless and counterproductive. Even Churchill advocated rehabilitation and the fair treatment of prisoners. It's simple economics. It costs thousands to keep someone in custody. As taxpayers I'm sure we all want a system that rehabilitates rather than hardens criminals and turns them into recidivists. It's cheaper to not keep banging them up! It's a fine line to tread though and the pendulum swings first one way then the other. The truth is some approaches work for some and other approaches work for others. As regards smoking. You can ban it but then you have to enforce the ban. Extra staff, possibility of more riots and therefore more riot staff. More staff injuries. Also how are you going to prosecute those who have had a fag? At the moment, if you smell cannabis on a wing you urine test the likely offenders. Not sure if similar exists for tobacco. Not forgetting to secure an adjudication in jails you need to have evidence. Lastly, if you ban tobacco you also take away an effective tool for crisis management. The words, tell you what son, fancy a fag whilst we talk about why you are (self harming/making threats/or refusing to do as you're told) do wonders! Bribery? Or jail craft of a wiser screw?So forget about the rule to everyone else,lets offer the crim a fag and not adhere to the rules once again.... they are there because they cant follow rules and have no moral backbone and to be honest most are as thick as a castle wall,rehabilitation is following rules....its as simple as that. Provide a smoking shelter outside in the yard where tobacco can be purchased and consumed in single measures ie...1 fag at a time,it may help some kick the filthy habit in the long run Forget about what rules? Prisoners are allowed to smoke in their cells or the exercise yard and that's all. Their cells are classed as their residence. As for the shelter outside. How do they get to this shelter? After all, it's a jail with locked doors and gates. A staff member would have escort them for each fag. And who would staff the kiosk to dispense the tobacco? Currently prisoners order their tobacco and pay for it weekly out of their earnings....which are extremely meagre. Sky boxes aren't available in the public sector and the newest console allowed is PS2. Effectively consoles have been disallowed. From your extensive knowledge of the criminal classes, you've deduced they are thick. prisoners are a cross section of society and some aren't that bright but many are. Bit like fab really! Perhaps with all the things in the news it would be better just to give all the wrong, evil doers a good talking to and send them home to the live in the same street as you and your ilk." Not sure what you mean by you and your ilk. If you think I'm some sort of apologist then you're reading stuff into my message that's not actually there. But let's widen this out then. You obviously think you know best, so how would you run jails with the constraints in place such as budgets, laws and best practice? Security considerations, staff safety and the current estate? Let's get away from simplistic rhetoric and say how you would change things and what benefits they would bring. | |||
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"Despite some very lengthy waffle I haven't spotted a single good argument as to why a prisoner should be permitted to smoke in prison at the expense of the tax payer and prison workers health. " At the expense of the tax payer; Could you elaborate further? | |||
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"They can spend the minimal wages they earn, approx £12 per week, may vary, on whatever they please. " and where does that minimum wage come from? | |||
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"are they not permitted to spend their prison dole on fags?" they have their own money to spend in prison, it is not all from the pay they receive for work etc (work that is often done for outside companies and so not all paid for by tax payers) | |||
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"are they not permitted to spend their prison dole on fags? they have their own money to spend in prison, it is not all from the pay they receive for work etc (work that is often done for outside companies and so not all paid for by tax payers)" | |||
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"They can spend the minimal wages they earn, approx £12 per week, may vary, on whatever they please. and where does that minimum wage come from?" The companies that employ them. DHL are big prison employers. | |||
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"They can spend the minimal wages they earn, approx £12 per week, may vary, on whatever they please. and where does that minimum wage come from? The companies that employ them. DHL are big prison employers." You'll soon find that talking sense has no place on this thread. BURN THEM! BURN THEM ALL! | |||
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"I can see where you are taking this point, however, police officers and soldiers are also payed through the Hm treasury; meaning the tax payers also contribute to their wages.. Are police officers and soldiers not allowed to smoke at the expense of the tax payer? " They haven't given up their civil liberties, therefore it's their right to choose how they spend their money. Can prisoners buy alcohol? | |||
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"but they are able to spend tax payers money on fags? I can see no justification for that." They work for it. or spend their own money that families send them. I doubt if they banned it you'd see a difference in your wage due to any savings so it just sounds like sour grapes | |||
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"They can spend the minimal wages they earn, approx £12 per week, may vary, on whatever they please. and where does that minimum wage come from? The companies that employ them. DHL are big prison employers. You'll soon find that talking sense has no place on this thread. BURN THEM! BURN THEM ALL! " Ohhh I know!! But it's fun speaking sense to ignorant! | |||
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"but they are able to spend tax payers money on fags? I can see no justification for that." By this logic, then benefits shouldn't be able to be spent on fags. Or if you want to take it even further, public sector employees shouldn't be allowed to buy tobacco from their wages. Both come from tax....... | |||
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"I can see where you are taking this point, however, police officers and soldiers are also payed through the Hm treasury; meaning the tax payers also contribute to their wages.. Are police officers and soldiers not allowed to smoke at the expense of the tax payer? They haven't given up their civil liberties, therefore it's their right to choose how they spend their money. Can prisoners buy alcohol?" Only on the black market in there or brew their own of they can get away with it. my brother made hooch using pizza dough (it's got raw yeast in it...he worked in the kitchen and they weren't allowed near the neat yeast) | |||
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"I can see where you are taking this point, however, police officers and soldiers are also payed through the Hm treasury; meaning the tax payers also contribute to their wages.. Are police officers and soldiers not allowed to smoke at the expense of the tax payer? They haven't given up their civil liberties, therefore it's their right to choose how they spend their money. Can prisoners buy alcohol?" alcohol is a different substance entirely which has very different effects on people causing higher risks to custodial staff. | |||
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"but they are able to spend tax payers money on fags? I can see no justification for that. By this logic, then benefits shouldn't be able to be spent on fags. Or if you want to take it even further, public sector employees shouldn't be allowed to buy tobacco from their wages. Both come from tax......." erm except one is a free man and one is a prisoner | |||
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"I can see where you are taking this point, however, police officers and soldiers are also payed through the Hm treasury; meaning the tax payers also contribute to their wages.. Are police officers and soldiers not allowed to smoke at the expense of the tax payer? They haven't given up their civil liberties, therefore it's their right to choose how they spend their money. Can prisoners buy alcohol?" It is also a prisoners right to choose how to spend their money. No, they cannot. However, this is due to the influence alcohol has on the mental state of a person whilst d*unk. This would not be a state you would like anybody who is locked up in. It will only serve to exacerbate the situation. | |||
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"I can see where you are taking this point, however, police officers and soldiers are also payed through the Hm treasury; meaning the tax payers also contribute to their wages.. Are police officers and soldiers not allowed to smoke at the expense of the tax payer? They haven't given up their civil liberties, therefore it's their right to choose how they spend their money. Can prisoners buy alcohol? alcohol is a different substance entirely which has very different effects on people causing higher risks to custodial staff." like cancer? | |||
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"This isn't an issue of 'burn them'. This is an issue of the abuse of people's health in what should be a controlled environment" Have you read the whole thread? | |||
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"I can see where you are taking this point, however, police officers and soldiers are also payed through the Hm treasury; meaning the tax payers also contribute to their wages.. Are police officers and soldiers not allowed to smoke at the expense of the tax payer? They haven't given up their civil liberties, therefore it's their right to choose how they spend their money. Can prisoners buy alcohol? It is also a prisoners right to choose how to spend their money. No, they cannot. However, this is due to the influence alcohol has on the mental state of a person whilst d*unk. This would not be a state you would like anybody who is locked up in. It will only serve to exacerbate the situation. " I see that. But if one legal substance can be banned, so can another. | |||
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"This isn't an issue of 'burn them'. This is an issue of the abuse of people's health in what should be a controlled environment Have you read the whole thread?" I tried but it got a bit long winded in the middle | |||
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"I can see where you are taking this point, however, police officers and soldiers are also payed through the Hm treasury; meaning the tax payers also contribute to their wages.. Are police officers and soldiers not allowed to smoke at the expense of the tax payer? They haven't given up their civil liberties, therefore it's their right to choose how they spend their money. Can prisoners buy alcohol? It is also a prisoners right to choose how to spend their money. No, they cannot. However, this is due to the influence alcohol has on the mental state of a person whilst d*unk. This would not be a state you would like anybody who is locked up in. It will only serve to exacerbate the situation. I see that. But if one legal substance can be banned, so can another." can be....but comparing the two would be stupid. They're both very different things | |||
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"I can see where you are taking this point, however, police officers and soldiers are also payed through the Hm treasury; meaning the tax payers also contribute to their wages.. Are police officers and soldiers not allowed to smoke at the expense of the tax payer? They haven't given up their civil liberties, therefore it's their right to choose how they spend their money. Can prisoners buy alcohol? It is also a prisoners right to choose how to spend their money. No, they cannot. However, this is due to the influence alcohol has on the mental state of a person whilst d*unk. This would not be a state you would like anybody who is locked up in. It will only serve to exacerbate the situation. I see that. But if one legal substance can be banned, so can another." A ban is already being implemented. So, yes you can ban it. From this year, all welshprisons and I believe 4 in the south of England will implement a ban, with the remainder of the136 UK prisons following suit. | |||
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"I can see where you are taking this point, however, police officers and soldiers are also payed through the Hm treasury; meaning the tax payers also contribute to their wages.. Are police officers and soldiers not allowed to smoke at the expense of the tax payer? They haven't given up their civil liberties, therefore it's their right to choose how they spend their money. Can prisoners buy alcohol? It is also a prisoners right to choose how to spend their money. No, they cannot. However, this is due to the influence alcohol has on the mental state of a person whilst d*unk. This would not be a state you would like anybody who is locked up in. It will only serve to exacerbate the situation. I see that. But if one legal substance can be banned, so can another. can be....but comparing the two would be stupid. They're both very different things" | |||
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"I'm not comparing them - I'm fending off the "prisoners rights" argument being constructed that it's somehow their money to spend as they wish. Clearly there are already rules in place that mean it isn't their money to spend as they wish making that argument moot. Once again, I can see no good argument for not banning fags." Neither are you providing a counter argument. | |||
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"Unfortunately there's no fending of "prisoners rights." As humans, they are still humans regardless of what crime they are convicted of, they are entitled to every right that you or I have being a citizen of the U.K. Their punishment is the restriction of the right to freedom. " Agreed - only the "the restriction of the right to freedom" should apply to fags. | |||
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"I'm not comparing them - I'm fending off the "prisoners rights" argument being constructed that it's somehow their money to spend as they wish. Clearly there are already rules in place that mean it isn't their money to spend as they wish making that argument moot. Once again, I can see no good argument for not banning fags. Neither are you providing a counter argument." I disagree - there are several above. Misuse of taxpayers money Prison workers (and prisoners) health Rehabilitation to avoid budget issues on leaving prison... they're all above in the previous comments | |||
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"I'm not comparing them - I'm fending off the "prisoners rights" argument being constructed that it's somehow their money to spend as they wish. Clearly there are already rules in place that mean it isn't their money to spend as they wish making that argument moot. Once again, I can see no good argument for not banning fags. Neither are you providing a counter argument. I disagree - there are several above. Misuse of taxpayers money Prison workers (and prisoners) health Rehabilitation to avoid budget issues on leaving prison... they're all above in the previous comments " But they aren't spending tax payers money. They are spending money they earnt in various ways from any of the various companies that employ them. Do you report every person you see smoking in a company vehicle? And why would stopping them smoking be a part of rehabilitation? I'd rather they spent the money on effective rehousing courses than stopping someone have the one luxury that keeps them sane. | |||
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"But they aren't spending tax payers money. They are spending money they earnt in various ways from any of the various companies that employ them. Do you report every person you see smoking in a company vehicle? And why would stopping them smoking be a part of rehabilitation? I'd rather they spent the money on effective rehousing courses than stopping someone have the one luxury that keeps them sane." We covered that in the previous comments too. Apparently it is indeed tax payers money. And even if the prison has been contracted out that's still presumably govt. funded. Smoking doesn't keep anyone sane. | |||
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"Another way to look at it is that if you think prisoners should not be allowed to smoke because they are 'bad people'...well smoking gives you cancer (some people) so it's increasing their risk of cancer so if you think they're bad people then wouldn't you want them all to smoke?..." I err on the side of a ban for precisely the opposite reason. Prisoners health is just as important as anyone else's. You are not allowed to smoke in any other public institution for valid health reasons. | |||
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"Another way to look at it is that if you think prisoners should not be allowed to smoke because they are 'bad people'...well smoking gives you cancer (some people) so it's increasing their risk of cancer so if you think they're bad people then wouldn't you want them all to smoke?... I err on the side of a ban for precisely the opposite reason. Prisoners health is just as important as anyone else's. You are not allowed to smoke in any other public institution for valid health reasons." They smoke outside or in their cells...like some hotels have smoking rooms...it's classed as their own residence General population isn't a smokey hole...it's smoke free | |||
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"Another way to look at it is that if you think prisoners should not be allowed to smoke because they are 'bad people'...well smoking gives you cancer (some people) so it's increasing their risk of cancer so if you think they're bad people then wouldn't you want them all to smoke?... I err on the side of a ban for precisely the opposite reason. Prisoners health is just as important as anyone else's. You are not allowed to smoke in any other public institution for valid health reasons. They smoke outside or in their cells...like some hotels have smoking rooms...it's classed as their own residence General population isn't a smokey hole...it's smoke free " Yes, I'm aware of that. There are arguments on both sides and I'm aware that my stance is patriarchal but, on balance, it's certainly worth a trial run. As pointed out previously, a similar ban has worked well in secure hospitals. | |||
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"Another way to look at it is that if you think prisoners should not be allowed to smoke because they are 'bad people'...well smoking gives you cancer (some people) so it's increasing their risk of cancer so if you think they're bad people then wouldn't you want them all to smoke?..." I wouldn't want to inflict cancer on anybody but then I'm nice like that. Also, the prison service have a duty of care to those in prison and would have to provide health are services to all those who you seem happy to give cancer to. | |||
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"But they aren't spending tax payers money. They are spending money they earnt in various ways from any of the various companies that employ them. Do you report every person you see smoking in a company vehicle? And why would stopping them smoking be a part of rehabilitation? I'd rather they spent the money on effective rehousing courses than stopping someone have the one luxury that keeps them sane. We covered that in the previous comments too. Apparently it is indeed tax payers money. And even if the prison has been contracted out that's still presumably govt. funded. Smoking doesn't keep anyone sane." Have you ever smoked? Have you ever been in prison? How do you know what keeps people sane? | |||
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"Ok, let's get away from all the hang, draw and quarter talk. The prison system is what it is. In my opinion treating anyone cruelly is pointless and counterproductive. Even Churchill advocated rehabilitation and the fair treatment of prisoners. It's simple economics. It costs thousands to keep someone in custody. As taxpayers I'm sure we all want a system that rehabilitates rather than hardens criminals and turns them into recidivists. It's cheaper to not keep banging them up! It's a fine line to tread though and the pendulum swings first one way then the other. The truth is some approaches work for some and other approaches work for others. As regards smoking. You can ban it but then you have to enforce the ban. Extra staff, possibility of more riots and therefore more riot staff. More staff injuries. Also how are you going to prosecute those who have had a fag? At the moment, if you smell cannabis on a wing you urine test the likely offenders. Not sure if similar exists for tobacco. Not forgetting to secure an adjudication in jails you need to have evidence. Lastly, if you ban tobacco you also take away an effective tool for crisis management. The words, tell you what son, fancy a fag whilst we talk about why you are (self harming/making threats/or refusing to do as you're told) do wonders! Bribery? Or jail craft of a wiser screw?So forget about the rule to everyone else,lets offer the crim a fag and not adhere to the rules once again.... they are there because they cant follow rules and have no moral backbone and to be honest most are as thick as a castle wall,rehabilitation is following rules....its as simple as that. Provide a smoking shelter outside in the yard where tobacco can be purchased and consumed in single measures ie...1 fag at a time,it may help some kick the filthy habit in the long run Forget about what rules? Prisoners are allowed to smoke in their cells or the exercise yard and that's all. Their cells are classed as their residence. As for the shelter outside. How do they get to this shelter? After all, it's a jail with locked doors and gates. A staff member would have escort them for each fag. And who would staff the kiosk to dispense the tobacco? Currently prisoners order their tobacco and pay for it weekly out of their earnings....which are extremely meagre. Sky boxes aren't available in the public sector and the newest console allowed is PS2. Effectively consoles have been disallowed. From your extensive knowledge of the criminal classes, you've deduced they are thick. prisoners are a cross section of society and some aren't that bright but many are. Bit like fab really!" The idea being when they are let out of their cells for yard/gym/snooker/social time,and please do not come back with they only get an hour...thats the whole point | |||
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