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Womens pay inequalities
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
No doubt about if a person is doing the same job as another person they should be paid equally its common sense and not a problem in my eyes.
If a woman was doing the same job as me in the mines and steelworks she would have got the same pay as me. Never came across it though.
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"No doubt about if a person is doing the same job as another person they should be paid equally its common sense and not a problem in my eyes.
If a woman was doing the same job as me in the mines and steelworks she would have got the same pay as me. Never came across it though.
"
I write programs and automation systems. Very very few women have the mentality to do my job, but if they did, they would get the same pay.
The pay equality thing is largely bollocks if you ask me.
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"No doubt about if a person is doing the same job as another person they should be paid equally its common sense and not a problem in my eyes.
If a woman was doing the same job as me in the mines and steelworks she would have got the same pay as me. Never came across it though.
I write programs and automation systems. Very very few women have the mentality to do my job, but if they did, they would get the same pay.
The pay equality thing is largely bollocks if you ask me.
"
I'm not getting into this with either of you. The evidence of the pay gap is plentiful if you were to choose to look for it rather than to choose to deny it and not want to see it. |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
As for very, very few women having the ability to write programmes and automation systems, bollocks.
Many are put off learning by being told they can't early on, many face barriers to learning that males don't but women are just as capable of being able to learn to do it as men are.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The gap is reducing. The issue is often one that is difficult to get around - those that have children (I'm one), often have some time away. When you go back you've lost a few years - you won't and shouldn't go back on equal pay as you've been out of the loop. You are forever playing catch up.
But - if a female is equally qualified to a man - then yes pay should be equal. I'm a big advocate for schools trying to promote engineering, science etc more to female students. Education as always is the key.
Sarah |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Excuse the c&p but this, from the Equal Pay Portal, states exactly what the rate of pay inequality currently is:
The gender pay gap for median earnings of full-time employees decreased to 9.4 per cent, from 9.6 per cent in 2014. This is the lowest since the survey began in 1997, although the gap has changed relatively little over the last 4 years. A similar trend is seen when full-time and part-time employees are combined, although the gap is unchanged from 2014, at 19.2 per cent. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I almost took a company to court years ago when I and another female chef found out we were being paid far less than the equivalent male chefs were being paid. They didn't want to take it to court so they had to back pay us nearly a year the difference in pay.
Shocking that it still goes on now 
A |
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Likewise everywhere I have worked it has been equal pay for equal jobs ( and equal opportunities ).
Including that at one point , everyone from my chief executive, directors,and departmental manager were women.
And 5 out of the eight team leaders that I managed were women.
However , I know that sadly, my organisation was in the minority. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A similar trend is seen when full-time and part-time employees are combined, although the gap is unchanged from 2014, at 19.2 per cent."
I imagine that females are a greater proportion of the part time employees. Wonder how the percentage of Directors - male to female ratios measure up now. It was also supposed to be becoming more equal.
Sarah |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
I'm vaguely befuddled by clueless men who say "if women could do my job, they would be paid the same as I am, but I've never seen one do it".
How can anyone know what women would be paid when no women do the job?!
And I very much doubt anyone, outside of HR, knows what everyone in their organisation earns, their contract terms, the amount of overtime they are offered etc etc. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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In order to reduce the gap further changes need to be made to the stat maternity/paternity pay system. 9 months of stat parental pay for couples, who choose how to divide it, could replace maternity pay so that couples aren't forced to have the male half working with the woman at home. It could potentially level the playing field between men and women of child bearing age.
Obviously many women go back to work rather than staying at home and receiving maternity pay, but the option for fathers to do that is non-existent. |
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
"I'm vaguely befuddled by clueless men who say "if women could do my job, they would be paid the same as I am, but I've never seen one do it".
How can anyone know what women would be paid when no women do the job?!
And I very much doubt anyone, outside of HR, knows what everyone in their organisation earns, their contract terms, the amount of overtime they are offered etc etc."
Many women do a job that is exactly the same as the men they work with for exactly the same pay. If this is not the case perhaps they should form a co operative and consider what action to take to solve the problem. I for one would give my whole hearted support for this. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No doubt about if a person is doing the same job as another person they should be paid equally its common sense and not a problem in my eyes.
If a woman was doing the same job as me in the mines and steelworks she would have got the same pay as me. Never came across it though.
I write programs and automation systems. Very very few women have the mentality to do my job, but if they did, they would get the same pay.
The pay equality thing is largely bollocks if you ask me.
I'm not getting into this with either of you. The evidence of the pay gap is plentiful if you were to choose to look for it rather than to choose to deny it and not want to see it."
The evidence is that women earn the same as men until they have children. Then they lose years of experience because, rightly or wrongly, women still carry the brunt of the responsibility for young kids. If you normalise for the years of experience then the gap basically disappears. Women who never have children actually earn more than men, on average. |
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
"No doubt about if a person is doing the same job as another person they should be paid equally its common sense and not a problem in my eyes.
If a woman was doing the same job as me in the mines and steelworks she would have got the same pay as me. Never came across it though.
I write programs and automation systems. Very very few women have the mentality to do my job, but if they did, they would get the same pay.
The pay equality thing is largely bollocks if you ask me.
I'm not getting into this with either of you. The evidence of the pay gap is plentiful if you were to choose to look for it rather than to choose to deny it and not want to see it.
The evidence is that women earn the same as men until they have children. Then they lose years of experience because, rightly or wrongly, women still carry the brunt of the responsibility for young kids. If you normalise for the years of experience then the gap basically disappears. Women who never have children actually earn more than men, on average. "
So where do single mums fit or are they included? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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One of my lecturers is in a teaching union. They recently released statistics from members feedback.
In her job, female readers technically stopped getting paid at the start of November compared to their male counterparts. Same jobs. Same ages. Same qualifications. Same institutions.
It's utterly shocking, and made worse by having a culture where it's considered bad manners to discuss wages. |
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"No doubt about if a person is doing the same job as another person they should be paid equally its common sense and not a problem in my eyes.
If a woman was doing the same job as me in the mines and steelworks she would have got the same pay as me. Never came across it though.
I write programs and automation systems. Very very few women have the mentality to do my job, but if they did, they would get the same pay.
The pay equality thing is largely bollocks if you ask me.
I'm not getting into this with either of you. The evidence of the pay gap is plentiful if you were to choose to look for it rather than to choose to deny it and not want to see it.
The evidence is that women earn the same as men until they have children. Then they lose years of experience because, rightly or wrongly, women still carry the brunt of the responsibility for young kids. If you normalise for the years of experience then the gap basically disappears. Women who never have children actually earn more than men, on average.
So where do single mums fit or are they included?"
They simply stay at home or work part time coz it's more lucrative that way.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Everybody in my organisation who does the same role is paid the same. It beggars belief as to why it would not be the case. "
Same here, I honestly had no idea this still went on, I though they had bought out equality in the work place years ago |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No doubt about if a person is doing the same job as another person they should be paid equally its common sense and not a problem in my eyes.
If a woman was doing the same job as me in the mines and steelworks she would have got the same pay as me. Never came across it though.
I write programs and automation systems. Very very few women have the mentality to do my job, but if they did, they would get the same pay.
The pay equality thing is largely bollocks if you ask me.
I'm not getting into this with either of you. The evidence of the pay gap is plentiful if you were to choose to look for it rather than to choose to deny it and not want to see it.
The evidence is that women earn the same as men until they have children. Then they lose years of experience because, rightly or wrongly, women still carry the brunt of the responsibility for young kids. If you normalise for the years of experience then the gap basically disappears. Women who never have children actually earn more than men, on average.
So where do single mums fit or are they included?"
Compared to what, single dads or the population on whole? |
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It will be interesting to see some proper statistics so we can cut through the rhetoric.
I can see why, in the city, where people are paid by results, those with a more ruthless streak earn more, but is it just coincidence that this is predominantly men.
I can see why those responsible for childcare seek part-time jobs that are predominantly lower paid, but if this is mainly women, is that the fault of the company? Ditto if the same person takes a career break, and returns with 10years fewer experience than their peers, should this matter in certain industries? Should those who have continued to work, gaining promotions, not be paid more?
Finally, while moaning about Europe creating red-tape for businesses, it's interesting that, once again, it is the uk government creating it.
I'm going to wait to see the results before I judge the value, but I admit to being sceptical...
Mr ddc |
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"No doubt about if a person is doing the same job as another person they should be paid equally its common sense and not a problem in my eyes.
If a woman was doing the same job as me in the mines and steelworks she would have got the same pay as me. Never came across it though.
"
never came across what? women working in mines and steel work or women being paid the same as men in mines and steelworks? your statement makes no sense. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Everybody in my organisation who does the same role is paid the same. It beggars belief as to why it would not be the case.
Same here, I honestly had no idea this still went on, I though they had bought out equality in the work place years ago "
Well in some companies, you get paid on performance (gasp). I've never met a woman (or man) underpaid in that environment because there's a competitive market for their services. I have seen a lot of younger people that were frankly just as good as older peers get underpaid relative to their performance. But that's a descrimination that's bloody written into law and nobody minds. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"One of my lecturers is in a teaching union. They recently released statistics from members feedback.
In her job, female readers technically stopped getting paid at the start of November compared to their male counterparts. Same jobs. Same ages. Same qualifications. Same institutions.
It's utterly shocking, and made worse by having a culture where it's considered bad manners to discuss wages."
Sounds like they can look forward to some nice compensation for the discrimination lawsuit they will no doubt be bringing? |
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"Everybody in my organisation who does the same role is paid the same. It beggars belief as to why it would not be the case.
Same here, I honestly had no idea this still went on, I though they had bought out equality in the work place years ago
Well in some companies, you get paid on performance (gasp). I've never met a woman (or man) underpaid in that environment because there's a competitive market for their services. I have seen a lot of younger people that were frankly just as good as older peers get underpaid relative to their performance. But that's a descrimination that's bloody written into law and nobody minds. "
years ago nobody minded that women were getting paid less until some people decided to take a stand. Perhaps some of these younger people that are being discriminated against need to do the same? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Everybody in my organisation who does the same role is paid the same. It beggars belief as to why it would not be the case.
Same here, I honestly had no idea this still went on, I though they had bought out equality in the work place years ago
Well in some companies, you get paid on performance (gasp). I've never met a woman (or man) underpaid in that environment because there's a competitive market for their services. I have seen a lot of younger people that were frankly just as good as older peers get underpaid relative to their performance. But that's a descrimination that's bloody written into law and nobody minds.
years ago nobody minded that women were getting paid less until some people decided to take a stand. Perhaps some of these younger people that are being discriminated against need to do the same?"
Well the principle is written into law (i.e. minimum wage) |
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I do a lot of Diversity & Inclusion analysis in my job and the pay gap is most definitely real. As is the gender ration at Senior level positions.
It absolutely shouldn't be the case these days but it is. Because I have access to these numbers, I also happen to know that I'm paid less than 98% of the men at the same level as me in our company.
*Her* |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My take on the age thing is this:
Loyalty and experience ought to be rewarded. It could be this is what is being misconstrued as age discrimination. "
I think it's more that they assum young people are still living at home so have less bill and need less money
Somebody my age can walk into a new job and get paid more than a 20 year old who's been there three years so its nothing to do with loyalty and experience surely?? |
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"No doubt about if a person is doing the same job as another person they should be paid equally its common sense and not a problem in my eyes.
If a woman was doing the same job as me in the mines and steelworks she would have got the same pay as me. Never came across it though.
"
You got down there a little too late then. Women miners and children miners existed before you were born. Reasons vary for why women and children were taken from that kind of work. Amongst those reasons are factory and education acts. Seldom is anything for the reason that some like to think or like to think they know. |
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"Everybody in my organisation who does the same role is paid the same. It beggars belief as to why it would not be the case.
Same here, I honestly had no idea this still went on, I though they had bought out equality in the work place years ago
Well in some companies, you get paid on performance (gasp). I've never met a woman (or man) underpaid in that environment because there's a competitive market for their services. I have seen a lot of younger people that were frankly just as good as older peers get underpaid relative to their performance. But that's a descrimination that's bloody written into law and nobody minds.
years ago nobody minded that women were getting paid less until some people decided to take a stand. Perhaps some of these younger people that are being discriminated against need to do the same?
Well the principle is written into law (i.e. minimum wage)"
that doesnt dictate that young people have to be paid minimum wage so i am not sure of your point?
I worked for a company whose entry level pay was minimum wage but there were performance bonuses and length of services paid regardless of age. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I do a lot of Diversity & Inclusion analysis in my job and the pay gap is most definitely real. As is the gender ration at Senior level positions.
It absolutely shouldn't be the case these days but it is. Because I have access to these numbers, I also happen to know that I'm paid less than 98% of the men at the same level as me in our company.
*Her* "
If what you are saying is true, why not sue? |
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"I do a lot of Diversity & Inclusion analysis in my job and the pay gap is most definitely real. As is the gender ration at Senior level positions.
It absolutely shouldn't be the case these days but it is. Because I have access to these numbers, I also happen to know that I'm paid less than 98% of the men at the same level as me in our company.
*Her* "
Nice to see a post based on factual analysis and evidence, thank you  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Are we comparing like for like here?
Or are we talking average salaries etc?
If it's like for like then that's well out of order. "
In absolute terms it's true, the average woman earns ~20% less than the average man. The average woman is more likely to work part-time, is less senior and has less years of experience, factor those things in and in relative terms the difference is not statistically significant. It's already illegal anyway, so where it happens women should prosecute. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Everybody in my organisation who does the same role is paid the same. It beggars belief as to why it would not be the case.
Same here, I honestly had no idea this still went on, I though they had bought out equality in the work place years ago
Well in some companies, you get paid on performance (gasp). I've never met a woman (or man) underpaid in that environment because there's a competitive market for their services. I have seen a lot of younger people that were frankly just as good as older peers get underpaid relative to their performance. But that's a descrimination that's bloody written into law and nobody minds.
years ago nobody minded that women were getting paid less until some people decided to take a stand. Perhaps some of these younger people that are being discriminated against need to do the same?
Well the principle is written into law (i.e. minimum wage)
that doesnt dictate that young people have to be paid minimum wage so i am not sure of your point?
I worked for a company whose entry level pay was minimum wage but there were performance bonuses and length of services paid regardless of age."
My point is that there's a principle in law that it's ok to pay people under 25 a wage that's less than you'd pay to someone doing the same job but was over 25. |
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"Everybody in my organisation who does the same role is paid the same. It beggars belief as to why it would not be the case.
Same here, I honestly had no idea this still went on, I though they had bought out equality in the work place years ago
Well in some companies, you get paid on performance (gasp). I've never met a woman (or man) underpaid in that environment because there's a competitive market for their services. I have seen a lot of younger people that were frankly just as good as older peers get underpaid relative to their performance. But that's a descrimination that's bloody written into law and nobody minds.
years ago nobody minded that women were getting paid less until some people decided to take a stand. Perhaps some of these younger people that are being discriminated against need to do the same?
Well the principle is written into law (i.e. minimum wage)
that doesnt dictate that young people have to be paid minimum wage so i am not sure of your point?
I worked for a company whose entry level pay was minimum wage but there were performance bonuses and length of services paid regardless of age.
My point is that there's a principle in law that it's ok to pay people under 25 a wage that's less than you'd pay to someone doing the same job but was over 25. "
just because it is in law doesn't mean it cannot be challenged. Laws get changed all the time due to successful challenges by affected parties. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Everybody in my organisation who does the same role is paid the same. It beggars belief as to why it would not be the case.
Same here, I honestly had no idea this still went on, I though they had bought out equality in the work place years ago
Well in some companies, you get paid on performance (gasp). I've never met a woman (or man) underpaid in that environment because there's a competitive market for their services. I have seen a lot of younger people that were frankly just as good as older peers get underpaid relative to their performance. But that's a descrimination that's bloody written into law and nobody minds.
years ago nobody minded that women were getting paid less until some people decided to take a stand. Perhaps some of these younger people that are being discriminated against need to do the same?
Well the principle is written into law (i.e. minimum wage)
that doesnt dictate that young people have to be paid minimum wage so i am not sure of your point?
I worked for a company whose entry level pay was minimum wage but there were performance bonuses and length of services paid regardless of age.
My point is that there's a principle in law that it's ok to pay people under 25 a wage that's less than you'd pay to someone doing the same job but was over 25.
just because it is in law doesn't mean it cannot be challenged. Laws get changed all the time due to successful challenges by affected parties."
How many politicians do you see arguing people under 25 deserve the same minimum wage as those over 25? I hear a grand total of... none. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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mrs w777 gets plenty of pin money every week for the shopping, cleaning and ironing
she never moans and is always grateful
she knows her place too like
i married a goodun it's fair to say
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"Everybody in my organisation who does the same role is paid the same. It beggars belief as to why it would not be the case.
Same here, I honestly had no idea this still went on, I though they had bought out equality in the work place years ago
Well in some companies, you get paid on performance (gasp). I've never met a woman (or man) underpaid in that environment because there's a competitive market for their services. I have seen a lot of younger people that were frankly just as good as older peers get underpaid relative to their performance. But that's a descrimination that's bloody written into law and nobody minds.
years ago nobody minded that women were getting paid less until some people decided to take a stand. Perhaps some of these younger people that are being discriminated against need to do the same?
Well the principle is written into law (i.e. minimum wage)
that doesnt dictate that young people have to be paid minimum wage so i am not sure of your point?
I worked for a company whose entry level pay was minimum wage but there were performance bonuses and length of services paid regardless of age.
My point is that there's a principle in law that it's ok to pay people under 25 a wage that's less than you'd pay to someone doing the same job but was over 25.
just because it is in law doesn't mean it cannot be challenged. Laws get changed all the time due to successful challenges by affected parties.
How many politicians do you see arguing people under 25 deserve the same minimum wage as those over 25? I hear a grand total of... none. "
how many times have you asked your MP to represent the issue? Just because it isn't being fought for now doesn't mean it can't be. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Everybody in my organisation who does the same role is paid the same. It beggars belief as to why it would not be the case.
Same here, I honestly had no idea this still went on, I though they had bought out equality in the work place years ago
Well in some companies, you get paid on performance (gasp). I've never met a woman (or man) underpaid in that environment because there's a competitive market for their services. I have seen a lot of younger people that were frankly just as good as older peers get underpaid relative to their performance. But that's a descrimination that's bloody written into law and nobody minds.
years ago nobody minded that women were getting paid less until some people decided to take a stand. Perhaps some of these younger people that are being discriminated against need to do the same?
Well the principle is written into law (i.e. minimum wage)
that doesnt dictate that young people have to be paid minimum wage so i am not sure of your point?
I worked for a company whose entry level pay was minimum wage but there were performance bonuses and length of services paid regardless of age.
My point is that there's a principle in law that it's ok to pay people under 25 a wage that's less than you'd pay to someone doing the same job but was over 25.
just because it is in law doesn't mean it cannot be challenged. Laws get changed all the time due to successful challenges by affected parties.
How many politicians do you see arguing people under 25 deserve the same minimum wage as those over 25? I hear a grand total of... none.
how many times have you asked your MP to represent the issue? Just because it isn't being fought for now doesn't mean it can't be. "
I'm simply pointing out a real example of mass discrimination as opposed to the imagined mass discrimination against women.
Yes there are examples of discrimination against women, but not on mass as some people suggest. There's also plenty of discrimination against transsexuals and people with disabilities if you want more real examples. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I know its a bit radical, but maybe people should join together and form some kind of group. Get the group to negotiate for them altogether and wipe out this huge inequality.
They could even negotiate working conditions so no individual gets persecuted or discriminated against.
They could even make sure that people of different sexs get the same rights and pay.
 |
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
"No doubt about if a person is doing the same job as another person they should be paid equally its common sense and not a problem in my eyes.
If a woman was doing the same job as me in the mines and steelworks she would have got the same pay as me. Never came across it though.
never came across what? women working in mines and steel work or women being paid the same as men in mines and steelworks? your statement makes no sense."
This is a true story
I applied for a job examing steel sheets to make sure they fitted all the specs and were free from faults flaws etc.
One question i was asked at interview was would you work with women doing the same job for the same pay. I replied not at all as long as they turned the sheets over the same as me.
I didn't get the job. I asked for feed back and was told i didn't get the job because on one shift 2 men were employed to turn the sheets over for the women to examine.
Equlity eh? |
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"No doubt about if a person is doing the same job as another person they should be paid equally its common sense and not a problem in my eyes.
If a woman was doing the same job as me in the mines and steelworks she would have got the same pay as me. Never came across it though.
I write programs and automation systems. Very very few women have the mentality to do my job, but if they did, they would get the same pay.
The pay equality thing is largely bollocks if you ask me.
"
Google Dame Stephanie 'Steve' Shirley and see how wrong you are. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I know its a bit radical, but maybe people should join together and form some kind of group. Get the group to negotiate for them altogether and wipe out this huge inequality.
They could even negotiate working conditions so no individual gets persecuted or discriminated against.
They could even make sure that people of different sexs get the same rights and pay.
"
Or how about this... if women of the same ability are getting paid significantly less than men, why not start a new business but only employ women. At the very least the business would be phenomenally profitable... ever wondered why that's never happened? |
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"
This is a true story
I applied for a job examing steel sheets to make sure they fitted all the specs and were free from faults flaws etc.
One question i was asked at interview was would you work with women doing the same job for the same pay. I replied not at all as long as they turned the sheets over the same as me.
I didn't get the job. I asked for feed back and was told i didn't get the job because on one shift 2 men were employed to turn the sheets over for the women to examine.
Equlity eh?"
Yes, but in that role, the relevant quality was the ability to inspect the steel not the strength of the worker. If that scenario is the most cost-effective way of doing the job,.that is how it should be done.
I suspect you also misunderstood them, had I been them I wouldn't have been able to say "because you came across as a misogynistic trouble-maker" either.
Yes I have worked in heavy industry.
Mr ddc |
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"No doubt about if a person is doing the same job as another person they should be paid equally its common sense and not a problem in my eyes.
If a woman was doing the same job as me in the mines and steelworks she would have got the same pay as me. Never came across it though.
never came across what? women working in mines and steel work or women being paid the same as men in mines and steelworks? your statement makes no sense.
This is a true story
I applied for a job examing steel sheets to make sure they fitted all the specs and were free from faults flaws etc.
One question i was asked at interview was would you work with women doing the same job for the same pay. I replied not at all as long as they turned the sheets over the same as me.
I didn't get the job. I asked for feed back and was told i didn't get the job because on one shift 2 men were employed to turn the sheets over for the women to examine.
Equlity eh?"
when was this?
you told them you would not want to work with a woman doing the same job for the same money and didnt gt the job? or am i reading that wrong? |
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"Everybody in my organisation who does the same role is paid the same. It beggars belief as to why it would not be the case.
Same here, I honestly had no idea this still went on, I though they had bought out equality in the work place years ago
Well in some companies, you get paid on performance (gasp). I've never met a woman (or man) underpaid in that environment because there's a competitive market for their services. I have seen a lot of younger people that were frankly just as good as older peers get underpaid relative to their performance. But that's a descrimination that's bloody written into law and nobody minds.
years ago nobody minded that women were getting paid less until some people decided to take a stand. Perhaps some of these younger people that are being discriminated against need to do the same?
Well the principle is written into law (i.e. minimum wage)
that doesnt dictate that young people have to be paid minimum wage so i am not sure of your point?
I worked for a company whose entry level pay was minimum wage but there were performance bonuses and length of services paid regardless of age.
My point is that there's a principle in law that it's ok to pay people under 25 a wage that's less than you'd pay to someone doing the same job but was over 25.
just because it is in law doesn't mean it cannot be challenged. Laws get changed all the time due to successful challenges by affected parties.
How many politicians do you see arguing people under 25 deserve the same minimum wage as those over 25? I hear a grand total of... none.
how many times have you asked your MP to represent the issue? Just because it isn't being fought for now doesn't mean it can't be.
I'm simply pointing out a real example of mass discrimination as opposed to the imagined mass discrimination against women.
Yes there are examples of discrimination against women, but not on mass as some people suggest. There's also plenty of discrimination against transsexuals and people with disabilities if you want more real examples. "
i know many real examples thank you but to discredit something one group of people are suffering just because others are also suffering seems silly to me. Why not congratulate them on getting their voices heard and encourage others to take examples from them to further their cause? |
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"My take on the age thing is this:
Loyalty and experience ought to be rewarded. It could be this is what is being misconstrued as age discrimination.
I think it's more that they assum young people are still living at home so have less bill and need less money
Somebody my age can walk into a new job and get paid more than a 20 year old who's been there three years so its nothing to do with loyalty and experience surely??"
Good point but the experience I am talking of could be from other fields or could be from life in general. Another could be motivation. Eg a 35 yr old woman may not find 600 pounds motivating enough to answer my calls whereas a 19 yr old girl may find the same offer gleaming. Everybody is happy. Until freedom of information exposes the situation. |
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
"
This is a true story
I applied for a job examing steel sheets to make sure they fitted all the specs and were free from faults flaws etc.
One question i was asked at interview was would you work with women doing the same job for the same pay. I replied not at all as long as they turned the sheets over the same as me.
I didn't get the job. I asked for feed back and was told i didn't get the job because on one shift 2 men were employed to turn the sheets over for the women to examine.
Equlity eh?
Yes, but in that role, the relevant quality was the ability to inspect the steel not the strength of the worker. If that scenario is the most cost-effective way of doing the job,.that is how it should be done.
I suspect you also misunderstood them, had I been them I wouldn't have been able to say "because you came across as a misogynistic trouble-maker" either.
Yes I have worked in heavy industry.
Mr ddc"
The job was examining the sheets which involved turning them over its called doing the job. Otherwise the sheets would have been turned over for everyone |
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".
you told them you would not want to work with a woman doing the same job for the same money and didnt gt the job? or am i reading that wrong?
Yes, you're reading it wrong.
"
but this is what it says....
One question i was asked at interview was would you work with women doing the same job for the same pay. I replied not at all as long as they turned the sheets over the same as me.
I didn't get the job. I asked for feed back and was told i didn't get the job because on one shift 2 men were employed to turn the sheets over for the women to examine.
....it clearly says he was asked if he would work with a woman getting paid the same and he said not at all?
or is it the bit where 2 men were employed to turn the sheets for a woman where the equality is skewed? are men expected to turn them on their own? |
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".
or is it the bit where 2 men were employed to turn the sheets for a woman where the equality is skewed? are men expected to turn them on their own?"
Or is that what he was implying to the interviewers? Thereby criticising their accepted method of working? Hence my comment, and why I too wouldn't have employed him. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"No doubt about if a person is doing the same job as another person they should be paid equally its common sense and not a problem in my eyes.
If a woman was doing the same job as me in the mines and steelworks she would have got the same pay as me. Never came across it though.
I write programs and automation systems. Very very few women have the mentality to do my job, but if they did, they would get the same pay.
The pay equality thing is largely bollocks if you ask me.
"
Ahemmm
Women may write better code, study finds http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35559439
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Many companies I have worked in it was forbidden to discuss your salary. we often broke those rules and the male to male pay equality was sometimes shocking 25% + was quite common.
one guy joined my team from a help desk job, 1 year latter despite doing exactly the same às the rest of his team he was on 60% less pay. And I was forbidden to tell him. As it happened I got another job ànd told him at my leaving party. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Let me get this straight. Two people, one male, one female, both with exactly the same qualifications at exactly the same grade, exactly the same amount of experience relevant to the job, working the same hours, finishing the job to exactly the same standard don't get equal pay? That's terrible. I don't really believe such a thing exists, but it's terrible if it does. But it probably doesn't. Or it might. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm reliable for 3 weeks out of every 4, as soon as i get the job I'll probably tell you I'm pregnant, when I'm a mother I'll demand that i work flexibly so i can do the school run. I'll probably take long lunches to get my nails done. Oh and watch out when it's time for the menopause! I'll expect to be given every opportunity in engineering because you know i look good in the corporate publicity photos.By the way i want equal pay."
This kind of opinion sickens me.
|
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"As for very, very few women having the ability to write programmes and automation systems, bollocks.
Many are put off learning by being told they can't early on, many face barriers to learning that males don't but women are just as capable of being able to learn to do it as men are.
"
This isn't true. I teach programming and databases too. I teach men and women. There is no prejudice at all. We aren't allowed to do this and to be honest and we love female programmers.
Women are encouraged MORE (yes more!) than men are. They are not told they can't from early on at all. They are told the opposite. Women usually require more help than the men. They are also better listeners.
Women are just as able as men are, however, they generally lack the right mentality to succeed. Generally speaking, they have little patience and they give up on the first hurdle.
Women are just as good, WHEN they have the right mentality to learn.
Organisations have to legally be fair now.
X |
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
".
you told them you would not want to work with a woman doing the same job for the same money and didnt gt the job? or am i reading that wrong?
Yes, you're reading it wrong.
but this is what it says....
One question i was asked at interview was would you work with women doing the same job for the same pay. I replied not at all as long as they turned the sheets over the same as me.
I didn't get the job. I asked for feed back and was told i didn't get the job because on one shift 2 men were employed to turn the sheets over for the women to examine.
....it clearly says he was asked if he would work with a woman getting paid the same and he said not at all?
or is it the bit where 2 men were employed to turn the sheets for a woman where the equality is skewed? are men expected to turn them on their own?"
Sorry my English is so poor |
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""I'm reliable for 3 weeks out of every 4, as soon as i get the job I'll probably tell you I'm pregnant, when I'm a mother I'll demand that i work flexibly so i can do the school run. I'll probably take long lunches to get my nails done. Oh and watch out when it's time for the menopause! I'll expect to be given every opportunity in engineering because you know i look good in the corporate publicity photos.By the way i want equal pay."
This kind of opinion sickens me.
"
must not bite....must not bite  |
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Here we go. This is not even eng 101 but let's do it.
The answer to questions starting with DO YOU MIND if.......
If you answer YES, it means you will not be happy if .....were to happen.
If you answer NO, it means you will be happy if .....does happen.
Now class, are we all happy with what I just said? |
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
"
This is a true story
I applied for a job examing steel sheets to make sure they fitted all the specs and were free from faults flaws etc.
One question i was asked at interview was would you work with women doing the same job for the same pay. I replied not at all as long as they turned the sheets over the same as me.
I didn't get the job. I asked for feed back and was told i didn't get the job because on one shift 2 men were employed to turn the sheets over for the women to examine.
Equlity eh?
Yes, but in that role, the relevant quality was the ability to inspect the steel not the strength of the worker. If that scenario is the most cost-effective way of doing the job,.that is how it should be done.
I suspect you also misunderstood them, had I been them I wouldn't have been able to say "because you came across as a misogynistic trouble-maker" either.
Yes I have worked in heavy industry.
Mr ddc"
Trouble maker never and i have always loved women ask em |
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".
you told them you would not want to work with a woman doing the same job for the same money and didnt gt the job? or am i reading that wrong?
Yes, you're reading it wrong.
but this is what it says....
One question i was asked at interview was would you work with women doing the same job for the same pay. I replied not at all as long as they turned the sheets over the same as me.
I didn't get the job. I asked for feed back and was told i didn't get the job because on one shift 2 men were employed to turn the sheets over for the women to examine.
....it clearly says he was asked if he would work with a woman getting paid the same and he said not at all?
or is it the bit where 2 men were employed to turn the sheets for a woman where the equality is skewed? are men expected to turn them on their own?
Sorry my English is so poor"
i'm not having a go at your english, just trying to understand how you apparently saying you wont work with women then failing to get a job is relavant. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
i know many real examples thank you but to discredit something one group of people are suffering just because others are also suffering seems silly to me. Why not congratulate them on getting their voices heard and encourage others to take examples from them to further their cause?"
I discredit them because I've read their 'evidence' and the numbers don't add up.
The point I'm making is that for discrimination to remain rampant we either need a closed market, a small group being discriminated against or a conspiracy. Since women are half the population that rules out one option. The other option is that it's the government mainly doing the discrimination but to get a 20% figure you need some mass conspiracy.
The mass conspiracy I struggle with. There are more women in HR than men so is this a conspiracy that women preform against other women? Also the tax structure of our country means that adding £2k a year extra to the lower earners salary will provide more net income to the family than the other way around. Therefore, most men (being married) would prefer equal pay too. |
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"No doubt about if a person is doing the same job as another person they should be paid equally its common sense and not a problem in my eyes.
If a woman was doing the same job as me in the mines and steelworks she would have got the same pay as me. Never came across it though.
I write programs and automation systems. Very very few women have the mentality to do my job, but if they did, they would get the same pay.
The pay equality thing is largely bollocks if you ask me.
Ahemmm
Women may write better code, study finds http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35559439
"
That article is absolute nonsense and isn't based on anything meaningful.
I've seen lots of women's code and I've seen a lot of men's coding.
Men's coding and women's coding is largely the same.
Men tend to pick it up faster and are generally more explorative, even though women tend to be better listeners.
Women are perfectly capable of programming. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No doubt about if a person is doing the same job as another person they should be paid equally its common sense and not a problem in my eyes.
If a woman was doing the same job as me in the mines and steelworks she would have got the same pay as me. Never came across it though.
I write programs and automation systems. Very very few women have the mentality to do my job, but if they did, they would get the same pay.
The pay equality thing is largely bollocks if you ask me.
Ahemmm
Women may write better code, study finds http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35559439
That article is absolute nonsense and isn't based on anything meaningful.
I've seen lots of women's code and I've seen a lot of men's coding.
Men's coding and women's coding is largely the same.
Men tend to pick it up faster and are generally more explorative, even though women tend to be better listeners.
Women are perfectly capable of programming."
Seconded, there's a huge wealth of research on software productivity available which shows national differences (often due to working regulations), industry differences and productive varying by application size. None of it indicates statistically significant gender differences. |
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
"
Mr ddc
Trouble maker never and i have always loved women ask em
Sometimes they don't want your love, they just want the same opportunity of earning a living in peace and quiet."
The last say as ever is yours, now you have confirmed women don't want my love and proved you are the spokesperson of the galaxy. |
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