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Junior Doctors Debacle
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
"So why use the word debacle ? "
Well now it could work either way.
Lets be carefull though the unions are smashed so where do people go when they have contracts imposed on them.
Mine workers-gone
Steel workers-all but gone
Dockers-who
Power workers-very quiet
Public sector-terrified
NHS-Perhaps not as we know it
Is it take it or leave it.
Just lost for words really-all zipped up. |
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
"You still thought didn't you !!! Would you go back and fight again ? "
To be perfectly honest if i was a junior doctor i would resign or strike. Both with a heavy heart but, we keep hearing democracy and it means do as i say. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So why use the word debacle ?
Because it is from both petspectives"
b so it was ok for you to fight for your rights and pay twice and not them ? Very odd reasoning but ok |
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
"So why use the word debacle ?
Because it is from both petspectivesb so it was ok for you to fight for your rights and pay twice and not them ? Very odd reasoning but ok "
Have you read all my posts in this thread. I think the Drs have every right to fight. Its a right that has been diluted that much its a shame. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You still have to fight for your rights though the others have!!!! Would you let your pay decrease without a fight ?
Ex miner ex steel worker now let me see. "
Maybe some occupations had outlived their supply and need? The medical profession is desperately needed so they shouldn't just put up and shut up? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Am I reading this right? _abphil seems to be in support of the strikes, but everyone is replying as if he is against them.  "
It's a fab forum , what do you expect ?
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
They deserve much more than they get already. I fully support their protests.
It infuriates me when you compare Health Professionals salaries to the likes of sports personalities etc.
Its a huge responsibility having life or death situations in your hands. You can't put a price on some of the work they do. |
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
"Am I reading this right? _abphil seems to be in support of the strikes, but everyone is replying as if he is against them. "
I thought i had finally flipped get me a dr, oh they are on strike ffs |
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
"They deserve much more than they get already. I fully support their protests.
It infuriates me when you compare Health Professionals salaries to the likes of sports personalities etc.
Its a huge responsibility having life or death situations in your hands. You can't put a price on some of the work they do."
Same goes for lots of jobs that have been hacked at |
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You're right, it is a debacle. Completely shameful and ideological, too.
The tories see the NHS as a money pot to divide up between their cronies. They have 4 more years to divvy it all up. Possibly 9 if Labour don't stop their in-fighting.
What's happening now is standard practice: under fund, devalue and demoralize the workers (drs and nurses) working in the system to the point it fails. People get angry and fed-up with the NHS and it gets handed over to the private sector to make billions off the tax payer.
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By *oxymTV/TS
over a year ago
cramlington |
Personally I think everyone should make a stand with them and say enough is enough , get rid of the cash cows that come in to chop services to save money ,
Scrap trident and put the money to what we need in NHS
Penalise those that waste NHS time like d*unks at the weekend
There is money to fix the NHS it's just they want to privatise like everything else in the tories |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think it's more the money that gets wasted myself..had alot to do with hospitals over the past couple of months..it's unreal how things are run at times. |
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Ok, so I have read the info on the BMA web site and read the letter from Sir David Dalton and the response from the BMA.
I am struggling to understand all the polemic around this subject. It looks like the BMA and the NHS (proxy for the government in this discussion) agreed on the basic principles but differed on how much was basic pay versus how much was 'overtime' with the NHS trying to include more within basic pay. The basic pay would go up substantially and additional fines would be levied on the NHS if they over work staff plus the over worked staff being paid more.
I think the problem here is that both sides have taken political positions, and now find it hard to back down. Having read David Daltons letter I actually feel that the BMA is the one being intransigent.
In no way do I question the commitment, skill and value of the junior doctors.
What I do question is where is the gulf between what is being offered and what is being asked for?
The BMA seems to accept the principle of what is being asked for, it wants the mix of pay varied. So the attacks on the NHS as a provider of service bear no credibility - the same service, with safeguards is what is offered.
Whilst I agree it has been handled foolishly, my sympathy is not with the BMA - they could resolve this  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As a country we voted for the Tories, we knew what would happen, we knew we'd be fucked over for the benefit of the ultra rich. Why is this a shock anyone? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I agree that fundamentally, this appears to be about pay. However I would still completely support the junior doctors position, and to increase the basic pay while reducing antisocial hours payments is going to do absolutely naff all to help with current recruitment crises in areas such as A&E and anaesthetics which have the greatest need for antisocial working hours. I'm not particularly convinced by the BMA's "it's about patient safety" line, but neither am I convinced by Jeremy Hunt's claims that this is going to help deliver a 7 day NHS, because it clearly isn't. The same people, working the same hours but getting paid less for some of them, is not going to be able to deliver a 2/7ths increase in service.
I also don't think it's unreasonable to expect to be well paid for a job which involves so much responsibility (which it does, from a scarily junior position in some cases) and which requires so much studying to get to that point.
I'd be pretty damn fucked off too if someone pulled the rug out from under me and told me that my pay was going to be significantly cut. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As a country we voted for the Tories, we knew what would happen, we knew we'd be fucked over for the benefit of the ultra rich. Why is this a shock anyone?"
At least they are trying to do something about the thousands of extra deaths at weekends. What did labour do? |
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"I agree that fundamentally, this appears to be about pay. However I would still completely support the junior doctors position, and to increase the basic pay while reducing antisocial hours payments is going to do absolutely naff all to help with current recruitment crises in areas such as A&E and anaesthetics which have the greatest need for antisocial working hours. I'm not particularly convinced by the BMA's "it's about patient safety" line, but neither am I convinced by Jeremy Hunt's claims that this is going to help deliver a 7 day NHS, because it clearly isn't. The same people, working the same hours but getting paid less for some of them, is not going to be able to deliver a 2/7ths increase in service.
I also don't think it's unreasonable to expect to be well paid for a job which involves so much responsibility (which it does, from a scarily junior position in some cases) and which requires so much studying to get to that point.
I'd be pretty damn fucked off too if someone pulled the rug out from under me and told me that my pay was going to be significantly cut. "
Wise words. You know what you're talking about too  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Hi, whilst i fully agree with everyones right to strike to make there point im actually bery confused, are they striking because they want more pay? Or having to work weekends ? Because as a rugby player ive had the odd trip on a saturday to ae and been wonderfully looked after and there were doctors there? Am i just being thick but i was under the impression they could be rostered seven days a week??? My mrs is a nurse and is equally frustrated however shes clever im not lol |
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
"Hi, whilst i fully agree with everyones right to strike to make there point im actually bery confused, are they striking because they want more pay? Or having to work weekends ? Because as a rugby player ive had the odd trip on a saturday to ae and been wonderfully looked after and there were doctors there? Am i just being thick but i was under the impression they could be rostered seven days a week??? My mrs is a nurse and is equally frustrated however shes clever im not lol"
Its complicated lol and will get even more tricky in my opinion! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
There was a thread on this subject on the last strike. When I left my opinion I was slaughtered. If J.C wins it's the beginning of the end for the NHS. I'm a nurse. Junior Doctors (which includes everybody up to consultant level) are on our knees the service you pay for is being destroyed. This is not greed it's to protect a service which belongs to us but is being dismantled bit by bit by a government I didn't vote for. The nurses will be next will we get support I don't think so. We will be made to look like uncaring bitches x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As a country we voted for the Tories, we knew what would happen, we knew we'd be fucked over for the benefit of the ultra rich. Why is this a shock anyone?
At least they are trying to do something about the thousands of extra deaths at weekends. What did labour do?"
That's a bloody good point |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Hi, whilst i fully agree with everyones right to strike to make there point im actually bery confused, are they striking because they want more pay? Or having to work weekends ? Because as a rugby player ive had the odd trip on a saturday to ae and been wonderfully looked after and there were doctors there? Am i just being thick but i was under the impression they could be rostered seven days a week??? My mrs is a nurse and is equally frustrated however shes clever im not lol"
To be honest it's gone a bit further now than pay rise and working hours.
Originally JH had offered a 11% pay increase, however he was planning on making Saturday a normal working day so Drs would loose the increment they get for working the Saturday, he also wanted to adjust working hours so unsociable hours ie evenings would be cut.
Although 11% sounds like a good deal because of taking increments away it would mean a pay drop.
Now he offered 13.5% pay rise with a extra 30% bit only if a jnr dr works more than one Saturday a month.
The BMA were in discussions with union bosses until he forced his hand today saying he will make the changes.
It's a shame he has used bully tactics as now brilliant Drs will either move overseas or resign.
JH is saying by not changing the contract it have implications on patient care!.
This is total bullshit, by him now changing contracts it will cause the implications. It won't stop with Drs either next step will be nursing staff who incidentally haven't had a pay increase for years, often working in extremely stressful situations, without breaks or even a drink pretty much as Drs are.
It's a massive shame JH has taken this stance and taken it to the level it's gone.
He will be single handedley responsible for the demise of the NHS |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There was a thread on this subject on the last strike. When I left my opinion I was slaughtered. If J.C wins it's the beginning of the end for the NHS. I'm a nurse. Junior Doctors (which includes everybody up to consultant level) are on our knees the service you pay for is being destroyed. This is not greed it's to protect a service which belongs to us but is being dismantled bit by bit by a government I didn't vote for. The nurses will be next will we get support I don't think so. We will be made to look like uncaring bitches x"
Why are there more deaths at weekends? |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"As a country we voted for the Tories, we knew what would happen, we knew we'd be fucked over for the benefit of the ultra rich. Why is this a shock anyone?
At least they are trying to do something about the thousands of extra deaths at weekends. What did labour do?
That's a bloody good point "
No it's not a good point. It's an example of people believing a liar who is attempting to mislead the public to achieve a political end. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There was a thread on this subject on the last strike. When I left my opinion I was slaughtered. If J.C wins it's the beginning of the end for the NHS. I'm a nurse. Junior Doctors (which includes everybody up to consultant level) are on our knees the service you pay for is being destroyed. This is not greed it's to protect a service which belongs to us but is being dismantled bit by bit by a government I didn't vote for. The nurses will be next will we get support I don't think so. We will be made to look like uncaring bitches x
Why are there more deaths at weekends?"
You're only likely to be in hospital at the weekend in the first place if you are seriously ill. Otherwise they make every effort to get people out and home. There are fewer routine type cases at weekends, so by default a higher proportion will be the people who were more likely to die anyway. There's more to it than that, obviously, but that's a simple answer. |
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
"Hi, whilst i fully agree with everyones right to strike to make there point im actually bery confused, are they striking because they want more pay? Or having to work weekends ? Because as a rugby player ive had the odd trip on a saturday to ae and been wonderfully looked after and there were doctors there? Am i just being thick but i was under the impression they could be rostered seven days a week??? My mrs is a nurse and is equally frustrated however shes clever im not lol
To be honest it's gone a bit further now than pay rise and working hours.
Originally JH had offered a 11% pay increase, however he was planning on making Saturday a normal working day so Drs would loose the increment they get for working the Saturday, he also wanted to adjust working hours so unsociable hours ie evenings would be cut.
Although 11% sounds like a good deal because of taking increments away it would mean a pay drop.
Now he offered 13.5% pay rise with a extra 30% bit only if a jnr dr works more than one Saturday a month.
The BMA were in discussions with union bosses until he forced his hand today saying he will make the changes.
It's a shame he has used bully tactics as now brilliant Drs will either move overseas or resign.
JH is saying by not changing the contract it have implications on patient care!.
This is total bullshit, by him now changing contracts it will cause the implications. It won't stop with Drs either next step will be nursing staff who incidentally haven't had a pay increase for years, often working in extremely stressful situations, without breaks or even a drink pretty much as Drs are.
It's a massive shame JH has taken this stance and taken it to the level it's gone.
He will be single handedley responsible for the demise of the NHS "
Oh he will |
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
"There was a thread on this subject on the last strike. When I left my opinion I was slaughtered. If J.C wins it's the beginning of the end for the NHS. I'm a nurse. Junior Doctors (which includes everybody up to consultant level) are on our knees the service you pay for is being destroyed. This is not greed it's to protect a service which belongs to us but is being dismantled bit by bit by a government I didn't vote for. The nurses will be next will we get support I don't think so. We will be made to look like uncaring bitches x"
You will get my support and yes i will have the kiss |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There was a thread on this subject on the last strike. When I left my opinion I was slaughtered. If J.C wins it's the beginning of the end for the NHS. I'm a nurse. Junior Doctors (which includes everybody up to consultant level) are on our knees the service you pay for is being destroyed. This is not greed it's to protect a service which belongs to us but is being dismantled bit by bit by a government I didn't vote for. The nurses will be next will we get support I don't think so. We will be made to look like uncaring bitches x
Why are there more deaths at weekends?
You're only likely to be in hospital at the weekend in the first place if you are seriously ill. Otherwise they make every effort to get people out and home. There are fewer routine type cases at weekends, so by default a higher proportion will be the people who were more likely to die anyway. There's more to it than that, obviously, but that's a simple answer. "
Ok, but aren't the seriously ill just as likely to die in the week? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There was a thread on this subject on the last strike. When I left my opinion I was slaughtered. If J.C wins it's the beginning of the end for the NHS. I'm a nurse. Junior Doctors (which includes everybody up to consultant level) are on our knees the service you pay for is being destroyed. This is not greed it's to protect a service which belongs to us but is being dismantled bit by bit by a government I didn't vote for. The nurses will be next will we get support I don't think so. We will be made to look like uncaring bitches x
Why are there more deaths at weekends?
You're only likely to be in hospital at the weekend in the first place if you are seriously ill. Otherwise they make every effort to get people out and home. There are fewer routine type cases at weekends, so by default a higher proportion will be the people who were more likely to die anyway. There's more to it than that, obviously, but that's a simple answer.
Ok, but aren't the seriously ill just as likely to die in the week? "
If you have a look on the nursing times webpage it explains how they came to the statistics they did. It's quite complicated to try and explain. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I am not alone im knowing when Cameron and his goon squad are lying and when they're spinning. Cameron was a spin doctor for Major, Lamont and Howard and then went to work in media. He knows the game and how to play it. But so do I.
I see Hunt backpedalling now as he puts his foot to the country's backbone and I can't believe so many are willing to turn a blind eye.
Is that the British way? To say 'oh well, that's that, then!'? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Or could it be they receive better care in the week?"
I find that comment quite insulting to be honest!
I work for the NHS and the care we give our patients where I work doesn't change if it's the evening, night or the weekend. |
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
"I am not alone im knowing when Cameron and his goon squad are lying and when they're spinning. Cameron was a spin doctor for Major, Lamont and Howard and then went to work in media. He knows the game and how to play it. But so do I.
I see Hunt backpedalling now as he puts his foot to the country's backbone and I can't believe so many are willing to turn a blind eye.
Is that the British way? To say 'oh well, that's that, then!'?"
No it aint lets have a general strike on a voluntary basis |
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"Or could it be they receive better care in the week?
I find that comment quite insulting to be honest!
I work for the NHS and the care we give our patients where I work doesn't change if it's the evening, night or the weekend. "
To be fair I don't think the implication is that individuals care less on weekends, just that the simple maths of fewer staff, esp backup staff, (radiographers etc) but more patients, simply means the standard of care is lower. No sane person is questioning the committment of nhs staff.
Or at least, they weren't before they walked out...
Mr ddc |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am not alone im knowing when Cameron and his goon squad are lying and when they're spinning. Cameron was a spin doctor for Major, Lamont and Howard and then went to work in media. He knows the game and how to play it. But so do I.
I see Hunt backpedalling now as he puts his foot to the country's backbone and I can't believe so many are willing to turn a blind eye.
Is that the British way? To say 'oh well, that's that, then!'?
No it aint lets have a general strike on a voluntary basis "
Would be a shame for a Tory MP to need a junior doctor in the near future, eh?!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Or could it be they receive better care in the week?
I find that comment quite insulting to be honest!
I work for the NHS and the care we give our patients where I work doesn't change if it's the evening, night or the weekend. "
I"m sure. So you don't have to work harder at weekends? |
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"I am not alone im knowing when Cameron and his goon squad are lying and when they're spinning. Cameron was a spin doctor for Major, Lamont and Howard and then went to work in media. He knows the game and how to play it. But so do I.
"
The trouble is, now that Labour have come out firmly on the side of the striking doctors, who do the patients think will stand up for them? Who is to speak up for the silent majority? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Or could it be they receive better care in the week?
I find that comment quite insulting to be honest!
I work for the NHS and the care we give our patients where I work doesn't change if it's the evening, night or the weekend.
To be fair I don't think the implication is that individuals care less on weekends, just that the simple maths of fewer staff, esp backup staff, (radiographers etc) but more patients, simply means the standard of care is lower. No sane person is questioning the committment of nhs staff.
Or at least, they weren't before they walked out...
Mr ddc"
Once again , a very well thought out post .
Well said |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am not alone im knowing when Cameron and his goon squad are lying and when they're spinning. Cameron was a spin doctor for Major, Lamont and Howard and then went to work in media. He knows the game and how to play it. But so do I.
The trouble is, now that Labour have come out firmly on the side of the striking doctors, who do the patients think will stand up for them? Who is to speak up for the silent majority?"
Do you not think they're doing this so that the standard of healthcare isn't destroyed? You can't turn the hospitals into an automated KFC chicken run! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There was a thread on this subject on the last strike. When I left my opinion I was slaughtered. If J.C wins it's the beginning of the end for the NHS. I'm a nurse. Junior Doctors (which includes everybody up to consultant level) are on our knees the service you pay for is being destroyed. This is not greed it's to protect a service which belongs to us but is being dismantled bit by bit by a government I didn't vote for. The nurses will be next will we get support I don't think so. We will be made to look like uncaring bitches x
Why are there more deaths at weekends?
You're only likely to be in hospital at the weekend in the first place if you are seriously ill. Otherwise they make every effort to get people out and home. There are fewer routine type cases at weekends, so by default a higher proportion will be the people who were more likely to die anyway. There's more to it than that, obviously, but that's a simple answer.
Ok, but aren't the seriously ill just as likely to die in the week? "
Yes the seriously ill are just as likely to die in the week. But they make up a smaller percentage of the overall hospital population during the week. |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"I am not alone im knowing when Cameron and his goon squad are lying and when they're spinning. Cameron was a spin doctor for Major, Lamont and Howard and then went to work in media. He knows the game and how to play it. But so do I.
The trouble is, now that Labour have come out firmly on the side of the striking doctors, who do the patients think will stand up for them? Who is to speak up for the silent majority?"
The striking doctors are the ones sticking up for the patients. The new contracts are a direct threat to patient care as it will require doctors (and eventually all medical staff) to work longer.
It's baffling to think that there is anyone who honestly believes that Jeremy Hunt is championing patient care. But then people get up out of their armchairs and go and vote for the Tories every five years, so anything is possible. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am not alone im knowing when Cameron and his goon squad are lying and when they're spinning. Cameron was a spin doctor for Major, Lamont and Howard and then went to work in media. He knows the game and how to play it. But so do I.
The trouble is, now that Labour have come out firmly on the side of the striking doctors, who do the patients think will stand up for them? Who is to speak up for the silent majority?"
I think that's a little hyperbolic 
Won't somebody think of the patients  |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Or could it be they receive better care in the week?
I find that comment quite insulting to be honest!
I work for the NHS and the care we give our patients where I work doesn't change if it's the evening, night or the weekend.
To be fair I don't think the implication is that individuals care less on weekends, just that the simple maths of fewer staff, esp backup staff, (radiographers etc) but more patients, simply means the standard of care is lower. No sane person is questioning the committment of nhs staff.
Or at least, they weren't before they walked out...
Mr ddc
Once again , a very well thought out post .
Well said "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Every health system in the world has higher death rates at the weekend. It has very lititle to do with staffing levels, and certainly not at the junior doctor level.
Hunt keeps quoting these NHS commissioners who agree with him and then can't name more than a couple of names. He quotes reports that he says prove death rates are down to staffing - the authors of the quoted reports have all denied that, and accused Hunt of deliberately misrepresenting them. He tells us that doctors are striking due to money - this is fundamentally untrue. He has said the BMA have refused to negotiate, when he has failed to show for more meetings than he attended.
He has lied and lied and keeps doing so. Why? The only possible explanation can be an ideological attack on the NHS. They have deliberately targeted the juniors first - every other NHS profession is due to follow. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Or could it be they receive better care in the week?
I find that comment quite insulting to be honest!
I work for the NHS and the care we give our patients where I work doesn't change if it's the evening, night or the weekend.
I"m sure. So you don't have to work harder at weekends?"
When you work on a ward everyday it's hard work weather it's during the week or weekend.
I |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am not alone im knowing when Cameron and his goon squad are lying and when they're spinning. Cameron was a spin doctor for Major, Lamont and Howard and then went to work in media. He knows the game and how to play it. But so do I.
The trouble is, now that Labour have come out firmly on the side of the striking doctors, who do the patients think will stand up for them? Who is to speak up for the silent majority?
The striking doctors are the ones sticking up for the patients. The new contracts are a direct threat to patient care as it will require doctors (and eventually all medical staff) to work longer.
It's baffling to think that there is anyone who honestly believes that Jeremy Hunt is championing patient care. But then people get up out of their armchairs and go and vote for the Tories every five years, so anything is possible."
Yes , the majority of people do get up out of their armchairs to vote for the tories  |
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"
The trouble is, now that Labour have come out firmly on the side of the striking doctors, who do the patients think will stand up for them? Who is to speak up for the silent majority?
I think that's a little hyperbolic
Won't somebody think of the patients "
I was thinking more of Sadiq Khan's 'guarantee' of no more strikes, and wondering how that would effect negotiations.
It's far less emotive than the language coming from the other side. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
The trouble is, now that Labour have come out firmly on the side of the striking doctors, who do the patients think will stand up for them? Who is to speak up for the silent majority?
I think that's a little hyperbolic
Won't somebody think of the patients
I was thinking more of Sadiq Khan's 'guarantee' of no more strikes, and wondering how that would effect negotiations.
It's far less emotive than the language coming from the other side."
There's ridiculously over emotive language coming from all sides, tbh, as there generally is with any discussion of the NHS. |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"I am not alone im knowing when Cameron and his goon squad are lying and when they're spinning. Cameron was a spin doctor for Major, Lamont and Howard and then went to work in media. He knows the game and how to play it. But so do I.
The trouble is, now that Labour have come out firmly on the side of the striking doctors, who do the patients think will stand up for them? Who is to speak up for the silent majority?
The striking doctors are the ones sticking up for the patients. The new contracts are a direct threat to patient care as it will require doctors (and eventually all medical staff) to work longer.
It's baffling to think that there is anyone who honestly believes that Jeremy Hunt is championing patient care. But then people get up out of their armchairs and go and vote for the Tories every five years, so anything is possible.
Yes , the majority of people do get up out of their armchairs to vote for the tories "
No they don't. But let's not add to the confusion. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Does anyone really believe that the current government is acting for the benefit of patients?
I just can't quite grasp that level of naivity.
Perhaps you agree that doctors are paid too much, perhaps you believe that balancing the budget is more important but nobody can possibly believe it's for the benefit of patients? Surely? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am not alone im knowing when Cameron and his goon squad are lying and when they're spinning. Cameron was a spin doctor for Major, Lamont and Howard and then went to work in media. He knows the game and how to play it. But so do I.
The trouble is, now that Labour have come out firmly on the side of the striking doctors, who do the patients think will stand up for them? Who is to speak up for the silent majority?
The striking doctors are the ones sticking up for the patients. The new contracts are a direct threat to patient care as it will require doctors (and eventually all medical staff) to work longer.
It's baffling to think that there is anyone who honestly believes that Jeremy Hunt is championing patient care. But then people get up out of their armchairs and go and vote for the Tories every five years, so anything is possible.
Yes , the majority of people do get up out of their armchairs to vote for the tories
No they don't. But let's not add to the confusion. "
True. That's another subject |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
I don't get the whole people die more at the weekend and the blame put on lack of staff. There is still staff on at the weekend, people are still being looked after. If a person is going to die, they are going to die. |
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
"Or could it be they receive better care in the week?
I find that comment quite insulting to be honest!
I work for the NHS and the care we give our patients where I work doesn't change if it's the evening, night or the weekend.
I"m sure. So you don't have to work harder at weekends?
When you work on a ward everyday it's hard work weather it's during the week or weekend.
I"
Well said and joe public see it everyday |
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"I don't get the whole people die more at the weekend and the blame put on lack of staff. There is still staff on at the weekend, people are still being looked after. If a person is going to die, they are going to die."
Proportionately more people die at the weekends because there are less people in for routine procedures than there are during the week. 1 person dies on a sunday because theyve been admitted with a stroke whereas 1 person goes home on a tuesday after having a bunion removed yet the government claim the patient has died on a sunday due to lack of staff |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The concept that less staff work at weekends is a joke my rota for next month gives me one Saturday off. A Registrar has a shift which on my ward they do at least twice a month is 48hrs long this is on call but I've seen them busy for most of those 48hrs. Would you want to be provided with any service from someone who's been awake for 48hrs. I know I wouldn't x |
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"I don't get the whole people die more at the weekend and the blame put on lack of staff. There is still staff on at the weekend, people are still being looked after. If a person is going to die, they are going to die."
Its because senior staff like consultants are not in at the weekends - also some of the lab. services like pathology are not fully staffed so test results get delayed. Its really got nothing to do with junior doctors not being around. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
There aren't any more junior doctors - so by forcing them to work more weekends and evenings, they have to work less weekdays.
If junior staffing levels are what cause deaths, as Hunt keeps repeating, then the weekday deaths will go up. This is what they mean by equaling the service. |
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I think the overtime culture amongst junior doctors is a big issue and needs addressing. In an ideal world their basic pay for a standard 40 hour week should be enough to live on. And more doctors employed so that a 24/7 nhs doesn't rely on doctors doing overtime. However, as a shift worker who does days, evening, nights and weekends without anything extra added to my salary, I have no sympathy with them wanting enhanced pay for Saturdays.
Yes, I'm aware I'm likely to get shot down. |
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"Go on,go on yer know yer wanna lol.
Whos first lol"
. It is my understanding that the Doctors are being offered a pay rise of 11% and hours worked will be less . Pay would only be lower because of the removal of some Spanish Practices ( enhanced overtime payments )
The reality is that funds are not unlimited and we expect the NHS to be run in the most efficient manner possible , not for the benefit of Doctors .
The governments plan is to improve patient care .
As a start point we should ensure that only those entitled to use the service actually use it . Health tourism costs the UK up to two million pounds a year and is completely unacceptable .
We should delegate more powers to nurses and if necessary recruit more nurses ..
Many of those visiting Doctors could be treated by nurses .
At least Jeremy Hunt is trying to improve patient care and more people voted for his policies than any other party . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The concept that less staff work at weekends is a joke my rota for next month gives me one Saturday off. A Registrar has a shift which on my ward they do at least twice a month is 48hrs long this is on call but I've seen them busy for most of those 48hrs. Would you want to be provided with any service from someone who's been awake for 48hrs. I know I wouldn't x"
well if there are no less staff at weekends what is the dispute about? If like you say they are working anyway then all they are being given is a rise |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"It is my understanding that the Doctors are being offered a pay rise of 11% and hours worked will be less . Pay would only be lower because of the removal of some Spanish Practices ( enhanced overtime payments )
The reality is that funds are not unlimited and we expect the NHS to be run in the most efficient manner possible , not for the benefit of Doctors .
The governments plan is to improve patient care .
As a start point we should ensure that only those entitled to use the service actually use it . Health tourism costs the UK up to two million pounds a year and is completely unacceptable .
We should delegate more powers to nurses and if necessary recruit more nurses ..
Many of those visiting Doctors could be treated by nurses .
At least Jeremy Hunt is trying to improve patient care and more people voted for his policies than any other party . "
If this post is an attempt at humour Pat, I find it to be in very poor taste. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The concept that less staff work at weekends is a joke my rota for next month gives me one Saturday off. A Registrar has a shift which on my ward they do at least twice a month is 48hrs long this is on call but I've seen them busy for most of those 48hrs. Would you want to be provided with any service from someone who's been awake for 48hrs. I know I wouldn't x
well if there are no less staff at weekends what is the dispute about? If like you say they are working anyway then all they are being given is a rise"
If you read my first post it explains roughly what the strike is about and it's not as simple as being given a rise. |
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"It is my understanding that the Doctors are being offered a pay rise of 11% and hours worked will be less . Pay would only be lower because of the removal of some Spanish Practices ( enhanced overtime payments )
The reality is that funds are not unlimited and we expect the NHS to be run in the most efficient manner possible , not for the benefit of Doctors .
The governments plan is to improve patient care .
As a start point we should ensure that only those entitled to use the service actually use it . Health tourism costs the UK up to two million pounds a year and is completely unacceptable .
We should delegate more powers to nurses and if necessary recruit more nurses ..
Many of those visiting Doctors could be treated by nurses .
At least Jeremy Hunt is trying to improve patient care and more people voted for his policies than any other party .
If this post is an attempt at humour Pat, I find it to be in very poor taste."
. Apologies . I made an error , the cost of health tourism is circa two billion pounds a year .
I can sweep nothing wrong in having a realistic plan to improve patient care .
Does the NHS exist for the benefit of patients or staff. |
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"I think the overtime culture amongst junior doctors is a big issue and needs addressing. In an ideal world their basic pay for a standard 40 hour week should be enough to live on. And more doctors employed so that a 24/7 nhs doesn't rely on doctors doing overtime. However, as a shift worker who does days, evening, nights and weekends without anything extra added to my salary, I have no sympathy with them wanting enhanced pay for Saturdays.
Yes, I'm aware I'm likely to get shot down. "
. You statement is probably what the silent majority think.
There is no need to worry about being shot down , a significant number of people will agree with you. |
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
"I think the overtime culture amongst junior doctors is a big issue and needs addressing. In an ideal world their basic pay for a standard 40 hour week should be enough to live on. And more doctors employed so that a 24/7 nhs doesn't rely on doctors doing overtime. However, as a shift worker who does days, evening, nights and weekends without anything extra added to my salary, I have no sympathy with them wanting enhanced pay for Saturdays.
Yes, I'm aware I'm likely to get shot down. . You statement is probably what the silent majority think.
There is no need to worry about being shot down , a significant number of people will agree with you. "
It aint that simplistic and different workers negotiate their pay |
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
"Go on,go on yer know yer wanna lol.
Whos first lol. It is my understanding that the Doctors are being offered a pay rise of 11% and hours worked will be less . Pay would only be lower because of the removal of some Spanish Practices ( enhanced overtime payments )
The reality is that funds are not unlimited and we expect the NHS to be run in the most efficient manner possible , not for the benefit of Doctors .
The governments plan is to improve patient care .
As a start point we should ensure that only those entitled to use the service actually use it . Health tourism costs the UK up to two million pounds a year and is completely unacceptable .
We should delegate more powers to nurses and if necessary recruit more nurses ..
Many of those visiting Doctors could be treated by nurses .
At least Jeremy Hunt is trying to improve patient care and more people voted for his policies than any other party . "
You seeing your boss about more hours and less pay, good man? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Go on,go on yer know yer wanna lol.
Whos first lol. It is my understanding that the Doctors are being offered a pay rise of 11% and hours worked will be less . Pay would only be lower because of the removal of some Spanish Practices ( enhanced overtime payments )
Employ more nurses lol were are they coming from. We are already understaffed and nurse leaving the NHS in droves
The reality is that funds are not unlimited and we expect the NHS to be run in the most efficient manner possible , not for the benefit of Doctors .
The governments plan is to improve patient care .
As a start point we should ensure that only those entitled to use the service actually use it . Health tourism costs the UK up to two million pounds a year and is completely unacceptable .
We should delegate more powers to nurses and if necessary recruit more nurses ..
Many of those visiting Doctors could be treated by nurses .
At least Jeremy Hunt is trying to improve patient care and more people voted for his policies than any other party .
You seeing your boss about more hours and less pay, good man?"
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think the overtime culture amongst junior doctors is a big issue and needs addressing. In an ideal world their basic pay for a standard 40 hour week should be enough to live on. And more doctors employed so that a 24/7 nhs doesn't rely on doctors doing overtime. However, as a shift worker who does days, evening, nights and weekends without anything extra added to my salary, I have no sympathy with them wanting enhanced pay for Saturdays.
Yes, I'm aware I'm likely to get shot down. . You statement is probably what the silent majority think.
There is no need to worry about being shot down , a significant number of people will agree with you. "
When defending bankers and big business's mammoth salaries, apologists like to tell us that it's important to pay commiserate with global comparisons, otherwise they'll take their talents overseas.
Why is this different with doctors (who don't even have to go overseas as the rest of the UK isn't following suit)? Hunt is the best recruiting sergeant for the Australian health care systems they've ever had. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think the overtime culture amongst junior doctors is a big issue and needs addressing. In an ideal world their basic pay for a standard 40 hour week should be enough to live on. And more doctors employed so that a 24/7 nhs doesn't rely on doctors doing overtime. However, as a shift worker who does days, evening, nights and weekends without anything extra added to my salary, I have no sympathy with them wanting enhanced pay for Saturdays.
Yes, I'm aware I'm likely to get shot down. . You statement is probably what the silent majority think.
There is no need to worry about being shot down , a significant number of people will agree with you.
When defending bankers and big business's mammoth salaries, apologists like to tell us that it's important to pay commiserate with global comparisons, otherwise they'll take their talents overseas.
Why is this different with doctors (who don't even have to go overseas as the rest of the UK isn't following suit)? Hunt is the best recruiting sergeant for the Australian health care systems they've ever had."
So why do foreign doctors come to work here? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think the overtime culture amongst junior doctors is a big issue and needs addressing. In an ideal world their basic pay for a standard 40 hour week should be enough to live on. And more doctors employed so that a 24/7 nhs doesn't rely on doctors doing overtime. However, as a shift worker who does days, evening, nights and weekends without anything extra added to my salary, I have no sympathy with them wanting enhanced pay for Saturdays.
Yes, I'm aware I'm likely to get shot down. . You statement is probably what the silent majority think.
There is no need to worry about being shot down , a significant number of people will agree with you.
When defending bankers and big business's mammoth salaries, apologists like to tell us that it's important to pay commiserate with global comparisons, otherwise they'll take their talents overseas.
Why is this different with doctors (who don't even have to go overseas as the rest of the UK isn't following suit)? Hunt is the best recruiting sergeant for the Australian health care systems they've ever had.
So why do foreign doctors come to work here?"
Do you really need me to answer that?
We already pay our doctors less and work them harder than many places in the world e.g Australia (and - soon - Scotland), but more than others e.g. Zimbabwe. See? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Since the cockney rhyming Hunt wants you to believe that people are more likely to die at the weekend, it's a good idea to research, rather than to believe every word he says!
If his claims are to be believed, weekends are statistically marked for lesser patient care, which leads to more deaths than during the week.
Naturally, if you're a bit of a moron like Hunt, you will naturally assume that treating junior doctors like factory staff - exploiting their work ethic and destroying their job satisfaction, while seeing how little "reward" they will suffer for - will actuaslly solve the problem.
But I did a quick flick through Google, and:
Monday - greater risk of heart attack, also the day you're most likely to be mugged and as you know, muggers are fond of sharp objects.
Wednesday - high risk of car crashes, highest rate of suicide attempts.
Friday - dangerous commuting again, even more so, and highest rate of accidents.
Saturday - very much booze related...
Jon Snow asked Hunt what was the difference there being less consultants around on weekends when there were still purely doctors? Didn't get an answer...
But that brings up a valid point. Why make the doctors suffer if it's consultants that are the problem?
Junior Doctors ARE striking for the good of the patients as well as for their own good, because quality and safety is at risk for everyone here.
Make a doctor secretary of health and drop this idiot! |
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
"Since the cockney rhyming Hunt wants you to believe that people are more likely to die at the weekend, it's a good idea to research, rather than to believe every word he says!
If his claims are to be believed, weekends are statistically marked for lesser patient care, which leads to more deaths than during the week.
Naturally, if you're a bit of a moron like Hunt, you will naturally assume that treating junior doctors like factory staff - exploiting their work ethic and destroying their job satisfaction, while seeing how little "reward" they will suffer for - will actuaslly solve the problem.
But I did a quick flick through Google, and:
Monday - greater risk of heart attack, also the day you're most likely to be mugged and as you know, muggers are fond of sharp objects.
Wednesday - high risk of car crashes, highest rate of suicide attempts.
Friday - dangerous commuting again, even more so, and highest rate of accidents.
Saturday - very much booze related...
Jon Snow asked Hunt what was the difference there being less consultants around on weekends when there were still purely doctors? Didn't get an answer...
But that brings up a valid point. Why make the doctors suffer if it's consultants that are the problem?
Junior Doctors ARE striking for the good of the patients as well as for their own good, because quality and safety is at risk for everyone here.
Make a doctor secretary of health and drop this idiot!"
The second last paragraph sums it up to a T |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think the overtime culture amongst junior doctors is a big issue and needs addressing. In an ideal world their basic pay for a standard 40 hour week should be enough to live on. And more doctors employed so that a 24/7 nhs doesn't rely on doctors doing overtime. However, as a shift worker who does days, evening, nights and weekends without anything extra added to my salary, I have no sympathy with them wanting enhanced pay for Saturdays.
Yes, I'm aware I'm likely to get shot down. . You statement is probably what the silent majority think.
There is no need to worry about being shot down , a significant number of people will agree with you.
When defending bankers and big business's mammoth salaries, apologists like to tell us that it's important to pay commiserate with global comparisons, otherwise they'll take their talents overseas.
Why is this different with doctors (who don't even have to go overseas as the rest of the UK isn't following suit)? Hunt is the best recruiting sergeant for the Australian health care systems they've ever had.
So why do foreign doctors come to work here?
Do you really need me to answer that?
We already pay our doctors less and work them harder than many places in the world e.g Australia (and - soon - Scotland), but more than others e.g. Zimbabwe. See?"
So why don't the e.g. Zimbabwean doctors go to other places in the world e.g. Australia? See? |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
this is basically a set up for the bigger fight...the contracts with the senior doctors which are going to be renegotiated/forced upon them.......
I have full sympathy for the junior doctors... they dont get to choose their roster so its not like they will have any say in whether they as well off (or not!)
it will be interesting to see how many now decide to go to australia/new zealand/us/canada who are all looking for docs.... or maybe just across the borders in scotland and wales where the contracts are remaining the same......
hunt has chosen a battle he isn't going to win....... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Since the cockney rhyming Hunt wants you to believe that people are more likely to die at the weekend, it's a good idea to research, rather than to believe every word he says!
If his claims are to be believed, weekends are statistically marked for lesser patient care, which leads to more deaths than during the week.
Naturally, if you're a bit of a moron like Hunt, you will naturally assume that treating junior doctors like factory staff - exploiting their work ethic and destroying their job satisfaction, while seeing how little "reward" they will suffer for - will actuaslly solve the problem.
But I did a quick flick through Google, and:
Monday - greater risk of heart attack, also the day you're most likely to be mugged and as you know, muggers are fond of sharp objects.
Wednesday - high risk of car crashes, highest rate of suicide attempts.
Friday - dangerous commuting again, even more so, and highest rate of accidents.
Saturday - very much booze related...
Jon Snow asked Hunt what was the difference there being less consultants around on weekends when there were still purely doctors? Didn't get an answer...
But that brings up a valid point. Why make the doctors suffer if it's consultants that are the problem?
Junior Doctors ARE striking for the good of the patients as well as for their own good, because quality and safety is at risk for everyone here.
Make a doctor secretary of health and drop this idiot!"
My heart bleeds for them it really does .
The funny thing is that being well educated and intelligent people I would bet that the majority of them voted Conservative at the last election |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Since the cockney rhyming Hunt wants you to believe that people are more likely to die at the weekend, it's a good idea to research, rather than to believe every word he says!
If his claims are to be believed, weekends are statistically marked for lesser patient care, which leads to more deaths than during the week.
Naturally, if you're a bit of a moron like Hunt, you will naturally assume that treating junior doctors like factory staff - exploiting their work ethic and destroying their job satisfaction, while seeing how little "reward" they will suffer for - will actuaslly solve the problem.
But I did a quick flick through Google, and:
Monday - greater risk of heart attack, also the day you're most likely to be mugged and as you know, muggers are fond of sharp objects.
Wednesday - high risk of car crashes, highest rate of suicide attempts.
Friday - dangerous commuting again, even more so, and highest rate of accidents.
Saturday - very much booze related...
Jon Snow asked Hunt what was the difference there being less consultants around on weekends when there were still purely doctors? Didn't get an answer...
But that brings up a valid point. Why make the doctors suffer if it's consultants that are the problem?
Junior Doctors ARE striking for the good of the patients as well as for their own good, because quality and safety is at risk for everyone here.
Make a doctor secretary of health and drop this idiot!
My heart bleeds for them it really does .
The funny thing is that being well educated and intelligent people I would
bet that the majority of them voted Conservative at the last election"
I would bet you a helluvalot that the majority of them didn't, and most certainly never will again.
Let's hope that if your heart actually bleeds, you are not treated by an over-worked, stressed doctor whose morale is at an all-time low (but at least still able to understand basic economics and migratory drivers) |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Since the cockney rhyming Hunt wants you to believe that people are more likely to die at the weekend, it's a good idea to research, rather than to believe every word he says!
If his claims are to be believed, weekends are statistically marked for lesser patient care, which leads to more deaths than during the week.
Naturally, if you're a bit of a moron like Hunt, you will naturally assume that treating junior doctors like factory staff - exploiting their work ethic and destroying their job satisfaction, while seeing how little "reward" they will suffer for - will actuaslly solve the problem.
But I did a quick flick through Google, and:
Monday - greater risk of heart attack, also the day you're most likely to be mugged and as you know, muggers are fond of sharp objects.
Wednesday - high risk of car crashes, highest rate of suicide attempts.
Friday - dangerous commuting again, even more so, and highest rate of accidents.
Saturday - very much booze related...
Jon Snow asked Hunt what was the difference there being less consultants around on weekends when there were still purely doctors? Didn't get an answer...
But that brings up a valid point. Why make the doctors suffer if it's consultants that are the problem?
Junior Doctors ARE striking for the good of the patients as well as for their own good, because quality and safety is at risk for everyone here.
Make a doctor secretary of health and drop this idiot!
My heart bleeds for them it really does .
The funny thing is that being well educated and intelligent people I would
bet that the majority of them voted Conservative at the last election
I would bet you a helluvalot that the majority of them didn't, and most certainly never will again.
Let's hope that if your heart actually bleeds, you are not treated by an over-worked, stressed doctor whose morale is at an all-time low (but at least still able to understand basic economics and migratory drivers) "
i am guessing they are with bupa... gawd bless private health insurance.....
sorry... flippant i know.....
I can answer the doctors question with regard to australia re different nationality.... because under australia point scoring system, depending on where you are trained, it can get you more points....... |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Since the cockney rhyming Hunt wants you to believe that people are more likely to die at the weekend, it's a good idea to research, rather than to believe every word he says!
If his claims are to be believed, weekends are statistically marked for lesser patient care, which leads to more deaths than during the week.
Naturally, if you're a bit of a moron like Hunt, you will naturally assume that treating junior doctors like factory staff - exploiting their work ethic and destroying their job satisfaction, while seeing how little "reward" they will suffer for - will actuaslly solve the problem.
But I did a quick flick through Google, and:
Monday - greater risk of heart attack, also the day you're most likely to be mugged and as you know, muggers are fond of sharp objects.
Wednesday - high risk of car crashes, highest rate of suicide attempts.
Friday - dangerous commuting again, even more so, and highest rate of accidents.
Saturday - very much booze related...
Jon Snow asked Hunt what was the difference there being less consultants around on weekends when there were still purely doctors? Didn't get an answer...
But that brings up a valid point. Why make the doctors suffer if it's consultants that are the problem?
Junior Doctors ARE striking for the good of the patients as well as for their own good, because quality and safety is at risk for everyone here.
Make a doctor secretary of health and drop this idiot!
My heart bleeds for them it really does .
The funny thing is that being well educated and intelligent people I would bet that the majority of them voted Conservative at the last election"
|
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"I think the overtime culture amongst junior doctors is a big issue and needs addressing. In an ideal world their basic pay for a standard 40 hour week should be enough to live on. And more doctors employed so that a 24/7 nhs doesn't rely on doctors doing overtime. However, as a shift worker who does days, evening, nights and weekends without anything extra added to my salary, I have no sympathy with them wanting enhanced pay for Saturdays.
Yes, I'm aware I'm likely to get shot down. . You statement is probably what the silent majority think.
There is no need to worry about being shot down , a significant number of people will agree with you.
When defending bankers and big business's mammoth salaries, apologists like to tell us that it's important to pay commiserate with global comparisons, otherwise they'll take their talents overseas.
Why is this different with doctors (who don't even have to go overseas as the rest of the UK isn't following suit)? Hunt is the best recruiting sergeant for the Australian health care systems they've ever had."
. The difference is that we are comparing pay in the public sector with that in the private sector .
In the private sector , no one is compelled to buy a companies products and as such there should be fewer controls on how they run their affairs .
All public sector employees are paid by the tax payer and will generally have to accept less competitive pay in return for job security and a good pension .
Instread of striking , junior Doctors should be putting forward proposals to use the existing funding for NHS services in the most efficient manner possible .
It may be a tough job , but they reap the awards eventually.
Sadly we cannot throw unlimited funds at the NHS . |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
So, Jeremy 'liar liar pants on fire' Hunt was, to the surprise of no-one, lying yet again when he claimed that forcing new working conditions on junior doctors was being supported by a host of NHS bosses:
'Jeremy Hunt’s claim to have the backing of 20 NHS bosses for his decision to impose new contracts on junior doctors unravelled overnight as three-quarters of the names on the list said they had never agreed to support forcing the deal.
A letter from the chief negotiator in the dispute, Sir David Dalton, calling on the government to do “whatever it deems necessary” to break the deadlock, and listing the 20 names, was cited by Hunt in announcing his decision to force through changes to pay and conditions."
Still, those lies are probably being told in the best interests of the patients, eh? |
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By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
"More medics, less politicians."
More Medics; less bl**dy reception staff; three of those tosspots and each busy gossiping and then when they finally can't continue any more, behave as if they hold PhDs. They wouldn't even get zer-hour contracts stacking shelves at Tesco |
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By *abphil OP Man
over a year ago
sheffield |
"More medics, less politicians.
More Medics; less bl**dy reception staff; three of those tosspots and each busy gossiping and then when they finally can't continue any more, behave as if they hold PhDs. They wouldn't even get zer-hour contracts stacking shelves at Tesco"
Only speaking as i find but i have never seen that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
So I watched BBC Question Time last night and what they brought up was a bit of an eye opener.
MPs getting another raise soon. And it's mandatory. They can't refuse it. And it's £10,000 each.
Soooo...
Junior Docs get shitty contracts imposed on them, but they can afford to give the hundreds in parliament an extra £10,000.
Seems to me like one scheme subsidising another! |
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"At least they are trying to do something about the thousands of extra deaths at weekends. What did labour do?
Somewhere in the UK someone actually believes this."
I was chatting to a nurse consultant last year who started out as a nurse during the Thatcher years - by their account it was terrible back then with people waiting in trollies for 12+ hours and when hospitals were turned into self governing trusts that was when the big management structure came in.
It was fascinating to hear. If what he said was true then people have very short memories. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"At least they are trying to do something about the thousands of extra deaths at weekends. What did labour do?
Somewhere in the UK someone actually believes this.
I was chatting to a nurse consultant last year who started out as a nurse during the Thatcher years - by their account it was terrible back then with people waiting in trollies for 12+ hours and when hospitals were turned into self governing trusts that was when the big management structure came in.
It was fascinating to hear. If what he said was true then people have very short memories. "
What's a nurse consultant? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
This is not about just Junior Doctors, this is about a much wider political picture. We have to take into account the socio-political climate here.
The NHS in 2012 with the Health and Social Care Act was actually devolved. The government was devolved of responsibility for it. The public don't know that at all.
What the government are trying to do with this whole bringing care to weekends is not to increase emergency care, because we do that of course already.
What they are trying to do is introduce elective non-urgent clinics into weekends. What that means is that when the NHS is sold off into private hands, which is no secret - the whole of Wiltshire Childrens Services has just been sold off to Virgin, the whole of Devon has just been sold off to Virgin, Sittingbourne in Kent just recently has been sold off.
Let's face the facts. When the NHS is being sold off, private companies do not want our complex, long-term physical or mental health patients. Do they want the poor and the vulnerable?
No, What they want is lovely little elective, non-urgent clinics which are now in the weekends and they can buy off.
That's what this is all about.
Whatever your political leanings are you need to consider that Jeremy Hunt (who once wrote a pamphlet recommending privatising the NHS) and most other members of the cabinet stand to personally gain from privatising the service. Think about what kind of health care system we are leaving for the next generation.
. |
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"This is not about just Junior Doctors, this is about a much wider political picture. We have to take into account the socio-political climate here.
The NHS in 2012 with the Health and Social Care Act was actually devolved. The government was devolved of responsibility for it. The public don't know that at all.
What the government are trying to do with this whole bringing care to weekends is not to increase emergency care, because we do that of course already.
What they are trying to do is introduce elective non-urgent clinics into weekends. What that means is that when the NHS is sold off into private hands, which is no secret - the whole of Wiltshire Childrens Services has just been sold off to Virgin, the whole of Devon has just been sold off to Virgin, Sittingbourne in Kent just recently has been sold off.
Let's face the facts. When the NHS is being sold off, private companies do not want our complex, long-term physical or mental health patients. Do they want the poor and the vulnerable?
No, What they want is lovely little elective, non-urgent clinics which are now in the weekends and they can buy off.
That's what this is all about.
Whatever your political leanings are you need to consider that Jeremy Hunt (who once wrote a pamphlet recommending privatising the NHS) and most other members of the cabinet stand to personally gain from privatising the service. Think about what kind of health care system we are leaving for the next generation.
."
Because many of the public are too stupid to join the dots. They just blame immigrants for everything.
Headlines all last week about NHS trusts running big debts because a lot of private providers are creaming off the top with the profitable services, leaving hospitals with loss-making services.
The info is readily out there for people to find if they can be bothered. |
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"At least they are trying to do something about the thousands of extra deaths at weekends. What did labour do?
Somewhere in the UK someone actually believes this.
I was chatting to a nurse consultant last year who started out as a nurse during the Thatcher years - by their account it was terrible back then with people waiting in trollies for 12+ hours and when hospitals were turned into self governing trusts that was when the big management structure came in.
It was fascinating to hear. If what he said was true then people have very short memories.
What's a nurse consultant?"
A type of nurse? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This is not about just Junior Doctors, this is about a much wider political picture. We have to take into account the socio-political climate here.
The NHS in 2012 with the Health and Social Care Act was actually devolved. The government was devolved of responsibility for it. The public don't know that at all.
What the government are trying to do with this whole bringing care to weekends is not to increase emergency care, because we do that of course already.
What they are trying to do is introduce elective non-urgent clinics into weekends. What that means is that when the NHS is sold off into private hands, which is no secret - the whole of Wiltshire Childrens Services has just been sold off to Virgin, the whole of Devon has just been sold off to Virgin, Sittingbourne in Kent just recently has been sold off.
Let's face the facts. When the NHS is being sold off, private companies do not want our complex, long-term physical or mental health patients. Do they want the poor and the vulnerable?
No, What they want is lovely little elective, non-urgent clinics which are now in the weekends and they can buy off.
That's what this is all about.
Whatever your political leanings are you need to consider that Jeremy Hunt (who once wrote a pamphlet recommending privatising the NHS) and most other members of the cabinet stand to personally gain from privatising the service. Think about what kind of health care system we are leaving for the next generation.
."
Heard that said for the last 50 years |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So, Jeremy 'liar liar pants on fire' Hunt was, to the surprise of no-one, lying yet again when he claimed that forcing new working conditions on junior doctors was being supported by a host of NHS bosses:
'Jeremy Hunt’s claim to have the backing of 20 NHS bosses for his decision to impose new contracts on junior doctors unravelled overnight as three-quarters of the names on the list said they had never agreed to support forcing the deal.
A letter from the chief negotiator in the dispute, Sir David Dalton, calling on the government to do “whatever it deems necessary” to break the deadlock, and listing the 20 names, was cited by Hunt in announcing his decision to force through changes to pay and conditions."
Still, those lies are probably being told in the best interests of the patients, eh? "
He's going to do well to survive this. There are already 14 chief executives publicly asking for their names to be removed from that statement and a labour MP has formally accused him of deliberately misleading parliament. And there are reports he personally vetoed a deal both sides found acceptable.
The support for Junior doctors within the NHS and the dislike of Hunt is widespread. Hunt seems oblivious to that |
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By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
"At least they are trying to do something about the thousands of extra deaths at weekends. What did labour do?
Somewhere in the UK someone actually believes this.
I was chatting to a nurse consultant last year who started out as a nurse during the Thatcher years - by their account it was terrible back then with people waiting in trollies for 12+ hours and when hospitals were turned into self governing trusts that was when the big management structure came in.
It was fascinating to hear. If what he said was true then people have very short memories.
What's a nurse consultant?
A type of nurse? "
One which sits in an office and discusses with patients the various types of bandages and bed pans available? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So, Jeremy 'liar liar pants on fire' Hunt was, to the surprise of no-one, lying yet again when he claimed that forcing new working conditions on junior doctors was being supported by a host of NHS bosses:
'Jeremy Hunt’s claim to have the backing of 20 NHS bosses for his decision to impose new contracts on junior doctors unravelled overnight as three-quarters of the names on the list said they had never agreed to support forcing the deal.
A letter from the chief negotiator in the dispute, Sir David Dalton, calling on the government to do “whatever it deems necessary” to break the deadlock, and listing the 20 names, was cited by Hunt in announcing his decision to force through changes to pay and conditions."
Still, those lies are probably being told in the best interests of the patients, eh?
He's going to do well to survive this. There are already 14 chief executives publicly asking for their names to be removed from that statement and a labour MP has formally accused him of deliberately misleading parliament. And there are reports he personally vetoed a deal both sides found acceptable.
The support for Junior doctors within the NHS and the dislike of Hunt is widespread. Hunt seems oblivious to that "
He didn't just veto it, he apparently refused to even look at it. He's not in the slightest bit interested in a settlement. Now why could that be? |
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"At least they are trying to do something about the thousands of extra deaths at weekends. What did labour do?
Somewhere in the UK someone actually believes this.
I was chatting to a nurse consultant last year who started out as a nurse during the Thatcher years - by their account it was terrible back then with people waiting in trollies for 12+ hours and when hospitals were turned into self governing trusts that was when the big management structure came in.
It was fascinating to hear. If what he said was true then people have very short memories.
What's a nurse consultant?
A type of nurse?
One which sits in an office and discusses with patients the various types of bandages and bed pans available?"
Probably. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So, Jeremy 'liar liar pants on fire' Hunt was, to the surprise of no-one, lying yet again when he claimed that forcing new working conditions on junior doctors was being supported by a host of NHS bosses:
'Jeremy Hunt’s claim to have the backing of 20 NHS bosses for his decision to impose new contracts on junior doctors unravelled overnight as three-quarters of the names on the list said they had never agreed to support forcing the deal.
A letter from the chief negotiator in the dispute, Sir David Dalton, calling on the government to do “whatever it deems necessary” to break the deadlock, and listing the 20 names, was cited by Hunt in announcing his decision to force through changes to pay and conditions."
Still, those lies are probably being told in the best interests of the patients, eh?
He's going to do well to survive this. There are already 14 chief executives publicly asking for their names to be removed from that statement and a labour MP has formally accused him of deliberately misleading parliament. And there are reports he personally vetoed a deal both sides found acceptable.
The support for Junior doctors within the NHS and the dislike of Hunt is widespread. Hunt seems oblivious to that
He didn't just veto it, he apparently refused to even look at it. He's not in the slightest bit interested in a settlement. Now why could that be?"
Oh the reason is obvious. But I think he is about to hit a huge problem. The people in the NHS he needed on side have stood shoulder to shoulder today and said very publicly this is not in their name. And to this the GPs are rumoured to have discussed a mass resignation. The NHS isn't going to roll over and let this government destroy it. That is very very clear now |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This is not about just Junior Doctors, this is about a much wider political picture. We have to take into account the socio-political climate here.
The NHS in 2012 with the Health and Social Care Act was actually devolved. The government was devolved of responsibility for it. The public don't know that at all.
What the government are trying to do with this whole bringing care to weekends is not to increase emergency care, because we do that of course already.
What they are trying to do is introduce elective non-urgent clinics into weekends. What that means is that when the NHS is sold off into private hands, which is no secret - the whole of Wiltshire Childrens Services has just been sold off to Virgin, the whole of Devon has just been sold off to Virgin, Sittingbourne in Kent just recently has been sold off.
Let's face the facts. When the NHS is being sold off, private companies do not want our complex, long-term physical or mental health patients. Do they want the poor and the vulnerable?
No, What they want is lovely little elective, non-urgent clinics which are now in the weekends and they can buy off.
That's what this is all about.
Whatever your political leanings are you need to consider that Jeremy Hunt (who once wrote a pamphlet recommending privatising the NHS) and most other members of the cabinet stand to personally gain from privatising the service. Think about what kind of health care system we are leaving for the next generation.
."
this!
If Jeremy Hunt is so concerned about patient mortality, why isn't he improving ACUTE care?! Instead he's suggesting there should be weekend appointments for non-essential reasons. It's total BS.
This new contract will only disincentivise specialities which require a great deal of out of hours work, such as A&E. That can only harm patients in the long term. Junior doctors choosing a career in an acute or emergency speciality should be rewarded for doing so. |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"This is not about just Junior Doctors, this is about a much wider political picture. We have to take into account the socio-political climate here.
The NHS in 2012 with the Health and Social Care Act was actually devolved. The government was devolved of responsibility for it. The public don't know that at all.
What the government are trying to do with this whole bringing care to weekends is not to increase emergency care, because we do that of course already.
What they are trying to do is introduce elective non-urgent clinics into weekends. What that means is that when the NHS is sold off into private hands, which is no secret - the whole of Wiltshire Childrens Services has just been sold off to Virgin, the whole of Devon has just been sold off to Virgin, Sittingbourne in Kent just recently has been sold off.
Let's face the facts. When the NHS is being sold off, private companies do not want our complex, long-term physical or mental health patients. Do they want the poor and the vulnerable?
No, What they want is lovely little elective, non-urgent clinics which are now in the weekends and they can buy off.
That's what this is all about.
Whatever your political leanings are you need to consider that Jeremy Hunt (who once wrote a pamphlet recommending privatising the NHS) and most other members of the cabinet stand to personally gain from privatising the service. Think about what kind of health care system we are leaving for the next generation.
.
this!
If Jeremy Hunt is so concerned about patient mortality, why isn't he improving ACUTE care?! Instead he's suggesting there should be weekend appointments for non-essential reasons. It's total BS.
This new contract will only disincentivise specialities which require a great deal of out of hours work, such as A&E. That can only harm patients in the long term. Junior doctors choosing a career in an acute or emergency speciality should be rewarded for doing so. "
Of course.
Jeremy Hunt is as concerned about patient mortality as Iain Duncan Smith is concerned about the welfare of the disabled. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
My views, for what they're worth
The employer has to have the right to change working conditions to suit their economic situations,- without that freedom, they will go bust. And we know that the doctors employer has to make cuts and that they have a mahoosive deficit.
We are lucky in the UK that employees are protected from exploitation through laws and that we have freedoms to choose to work elsewhere if we don't like the conditions offered to us in our contracts we're free to go and work elsewhere.
Also, the UK taxpayers are the ultimate customers, and those footing the bill. We voted, on a macro scale, for a government that was committed to further austerity to reduce a deficit. We, as a populace, are seeking wider coverage around the clock from our health services, but seem unwilling to pay greater taxes for it.
It seems to me that we should be making our own minds up,- do we want more access to NHS at no extra cost, (which is the situation being implemented), do we want a bigger deficit, or do we want to pay more for it..
That verdict should be made at the ballot box |
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"I don't know how doctors and nurses can claim to be so busy anyway when they can spend so much time making porn films
Are you taking the piss? "
That is why pizza deliveries and plumbers are so expensive....... |
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"Go on,go on yer know yer wanna lol.
Whos first lol"
Drs are paid extremely well (50,000 a year , upwards ).
There a many good ones but also many bad ones who enter into the profession for the kudos of the "dr" title anf the pay, not out of feeling a genuine vocational draw.
Always astounded at encountering the lofty cold dr type.. Clock watching and coasting along until it's clocking off time .
Junior, senior.. Whatever. They're not paid peanuts. |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"My views, for what they're worth
The employer has to have the right to change working conditions to suit their economic situations,- without that freedom, they will go bust. And we know that the doctors employer has to make cuts and that they have a mahoosive deficit.
We are lucky in the UK that employees are protected from exploitation through laws and that we have freedoms to choose to work elsewhere if we don't like the conditions offered to us in our contracts we're free to go and work elsewhere.
Also, the UK taxpayers are the ultimate customers, and those footing the bill. We voted, on a macro scale, for a government that was committed to further austerity to reduce a deficit. We, as a populace, are seeking wider coverage around the clock from our health services, but seem unwilling to pay greater taxes for it.
It seems to me that we should be making our own minds up,- do we want more access to NHS at no extra cost, (which is the situation being implemented), do we want a bigger deficit, or do we want to pay more for it..
That verdict should be made at the ballot box "
Unfortunately the stupid, reactionary and greedy can always be relied upon to vote Conservative - the party which is seeking to reduce still further the effectiveness of our 'democracy' in reflecting the wishes of the electorate by reducing the level of representation afforded the voter.
Tha ballot box as a method of progressive politics is broken beyond repair. It is not, nor has it been for a long, long time, a mechanism that can be relied upon to protect or even represent the best interests of the public. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Go on,go on yer know yer wanna lol.
Whos first lol
Drs are paid extremely well (50,000 a year , upwards ).
There a many good ones but also many bad ones who enter into the profession for the kudos of the "dr" title anf the pay, not out of feeling a genuine vocational draw.
Always astounded at encountering the lofty cold dr type.. Clock watching and coasting along until it's clocking off time .
Junior, senior.. Whatever. They're not paid peanuts. "
How wrong you are.
No-one goes into medicine for the money. You could easily earn vastly more as an accountant, actuary, airline pilot or an architect and that's just the comparable careers I can think of beginning with A! |
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"
That verdict should be made at the ballot box "
This has been polled.
An overwhelming majority of people are willing to see some level of increase in income tax if it's guaranteed to be spent on the NHS.
But they've never been asked to vote on it - they can't give their verdict at the ballot box if they're not given the opportunity to. |
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"Go on,go on yer know yer wanna lol.
Whos first lol
Drs are paid extremely well (50,000 a year , upwards ).
There a many good ones but also many bad ones who enter into the profession for the kudos of the "dr" title anf the pay, not out of feeling a genuine vocational draw.
Always astounded at encountering the lofty cold dr type.. Clock watching and coasting along until it's clocking off time .
Junior, senior.. Whatever. They're not paid peanuts.
How wrong you are.
No-one goes into medicine for the money. You could easily earn vastly more as an accountant, actuary, airline pilot or an architect and that's just the comparable careers I can think of beginning with A!"
We have differing opinions, drs are not infallible deities. Wafting around a ward looking at the occasional chart and ticking a few boxes.. Drs have very cushy jobs. And are extremely well paid.
I work within an admin environment within a health care setting and it's unfortunate but genuine drs that enter into the profession for vocational motives are in the minority.
If the profession and handsome starting package / work load are too Poultry... Don't enter into the profession.
Drs are put on too much of a pedestal.... A fair few them could benefit from having it kicked from under their feet.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Go on,go on yer know yer wanna lol.
Whos first lol
Drs are paid extremely well (50,000 a year , upwards ).
There a many good ones but also many bad ones who enter into the profession for the kudos of the "dr" title anf the pay, not out of feeling a genuine vocational draw.
Always astounded at encountering the lofty cold dr type.. Clock watching and coasting along until it's clocking off time .
Junior, senior.. Whatever. They're not paid peanuts.
How wrong you are.
No-one goes into medicine for the money. You could easily earn vastly more as an accountant, actuary, airline pilot or an architect and that's just the comparable careers I can think of beginning with A!
We have differing opinions, drs are not infallible deities. Wafting around a ward looking at the occasional chart and ticking a few boxes.. Drs have very cushy jobs. And are extremely well paid.
I work within an admin environment within a health care setting and it's unfortunate but genuine drs that enter into the profession for vocational motives are in the minority.
If the profession and handsome starting package / work load are too Poultry... Don't enter into the profession.
Drs are put on too much of a pedestal.... A fair few them could benefit from having it kicked from under their feet.
"
So your saying a dr working in and a&e that looses a patient weather it be adult or child has a cushy job!.
I would say the opposite to be honest. |
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"Go on,go on yer know yer wanna lol.
Whos first lol
Drs are paid extremely well (50,000 a year , upwards ).
There a many good ones but also many bad ones who enter into the profession for the kudos of the "dr" title anf the pay, not out of feeling a genuine vocational draw.
Always astounded at encountering the lofty cold dr type.. Clock watching and coasting along until it's clocking off time .
Junior, senior.. Whatever. They're not paid peanuts.
How wrong you are.
No-one goes into medicine for the money. You could easily earn vastly more as an accountant, actuary, airline pilot or an architect and that's just the comparable careers I can think of beginning with A!
We have differing opinions, drs are not infallible deities. Wafting around a ward looking at the occasional chart and ticking a few boxes.. Drs have very cushy jobs. And are extremely well paid.
I work within an admin environment within a health care setting and it's unfortunate but genuine drs that enter into the profession for vocational motives are in the minority.
If the profession and handsome starting package / work load are too Poultry... Don't enter into the profession.
Drs are put on too much of a pedestal.... A fair few them could benefit from having it kicked from under their feet.
So your saying a dr working in and a&e that looses a patient weather it be adult or child has a cushy job!.
I would say the opposite to be honest. "
It's part of the job description and the particular circumstances you cite is a relatively rare and emotive occurrence.
Yes, I think drs have cushy jobs.. Nurses on the other hand.. I'd say they earn their wage . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Go on,go on yer know yer wanna lol.
Whos first lol
Drs are paid extremely well (50,000 a year , upwards ).
There a many good ones but also many bad ones who enter into the profession for the kudos of the "dr" title anf the pay, not out of feeling a genuine vocational draw.
Always astounded at encountering the lofty cold dr type.. Clock watching and coasting along until it's clocking off time .
Junior, senior.. Whatever. They're not paid peanuts.
How wrong you are.
No-one goes into medicine for the money. You could easily earn vastly more as an accountant, actuary, airline pilot or an architect and that's just the comparable careers I can think of beginning with A!
We have differing opinions, drs are not infallible deities. Wafting around a ward looking at the occasional chart and ticking a few boxes.. Drs have very cushy jobs. And are extremely well paid.
I work within an admin environment within a health care setting and it's unfortunate but genuine drs that enter into the profession for vocational motives are in the minority.
If the profession and handsome starting package / work load are too Poultry... Don't enter into the profession.
Drs are put on too much of a pedestal.... A fair few them could benefit from having it kicked from under their feet.
So your saying a dr working in and a&e that looses a patient weather it be adult or child has a cushy job!.
I would say the opposite to be honest.
It's part of the job description and the particular circumstances you cite is a relatively rare and emotive occurrence.
Yes, I think drs have cushy jobs.. Nurses on the other hand.. I'd say they earn their wage ."
It's not a relatively rare occurrence at all far from
It, I totally disagree with you maybe you should walk the wards with a jnr dr and see what the job is really like. |
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"Go on,go on yer know yer wanna lol.
Whos first lol
Drs are paid extremely well (50,000 a year , upwards ).
There a many good ones but also many bad ones who enter into the profession for the kudos of the "dr" title anf the pay, not out of feeling a genuine vocational draw.
Always astounded at encountering the lofty cold dr type.. Clock watching and coasting along until it's clocking off time .
Junior, senior.. Whatever. They're not paid peanuts.
How wrong you are.
No-one goes into medicine for the money. You could easily earn vastly more as an accountant, actuary, airline pilot or an architect and that's just the comparable careers I can think of beginning with A!
We have differing opinions, drs are not infallible deities. Wafting around a ward looking at the occasional chart and ticking a few boxes.. Drs have very cushy jobs. And are extremely well paid.
I work within an admin environment within a health care setting and it's unfortunate but genuine drs that enter into the profession for vocational motives are in the minority.
If the profession and handsome starting package / work load are too Poultry... Don't enter into the profession.
Drs are put on too much of a pedestal.... A fair few them could benefit from having it kicked from under their feet.
So your saying a dr working in and a&e that looses a patient weather it be adult or child has a cushy job!.
I would say the opposite to be honest.
It's part of the job description and the particular circumstances you cite is a relatively rare and emotive occurrence.
Yes, I think drs have cushy jobs.. Nurses on the other hand.. I'd say they earn their wage .
It's not a relatively rare occurrence at all far from
It, I totally disagree with you maybe you should walk the wards with a jnr dr and see what the job is really like. "
It's a part of the job description, if they can't do it.. Why enter into it?
My views are based what I've largely observed. Not a straw man emotive argument. Soz hun.. That's the reality I've personally observed. If it doesn't mirror yours.. Isn't that unfortunate. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My views, for what they're worth
The employer has to have the right to change working conditions to suit their economic situations,- without that freedom, they will go bust. And we know that the doctors employer has to make cuts and that they have a mahoosive deficit.
We are lucky in the UK that employees are protected from exploitation through laws and that we have freedoms to choose to work elsewhere if we don't like the conditions offered to us in our contracts we're free to go and work elsewhere.
Also, the UK taxpayers are the ultimate customers, and those footing the bill. We voted, on a macro scale, for a government that was committed to further austerity to reduce a deficit. We, as a populace, are seeking wider coverage around the clock from our health services, but seem unwilling to pay greater taxes for it.
It seems to me that we should be making our own minds up,- do we want more access to NHS at no extra cost, (which is the situation being implemented), do we want a bigger deficit, or do we want to pay more for it..
That verdict should be made at the ballot box
Unfortunately the stupid, reactionary and greedy can always be relied upon to vote Conservative - the party which is seeking to reduce still further the effectiveness of our 'democracy' in reflecting the wishes of the electorate by reducing the level of representation afforded the voter.
Tha ballot box as a method of progressive politics is broken beyond repair. It is not, nor has it been for a long, long time, a mechanism that can be relied upon to protect or even represent the best interests of the public."
Whilst I appreciate your sentiments of frustration, it does sound unfortunately that what you're proposing is more of a revolution
Which is disappointing and a shame |
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The waste within the NHS is nothing short of scadalous, the Lord Carter Review has demonstrated where savings of £5B a year can be made. Perhaps if clinicians amongst many other NHS staff embraced the need for change, this problem of the junior Dr contract might have been avoided. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the overtime culture amongst junior doctors is a big issue and needs addressing. In an ideal world their basic pay for a standard 40 hour week should be enough to live on. And more doctors employed so that a 24/7 nhs doesn't rely on doctors doing overtime. However, as a shift worker who does days, evening, nights and weekends without anything extra added to my salary, I have no sympathy with them wanting enhanced pay for Saturdays.
Yes, I'm aware I'm likely to get shot down. . You statement is probably what the silent majority think.
There is no need to worry about being shot down , a significant number of people will agree with you.
When defending bankers and big business's mammoth salaries, apologists like to tell us that it's important to pay commiserate with global comparisons, otherwise they'll take their talents overseas.
Why is this different with doctors (who don't even have to go overseas as the rest of the UK isn't following suit)? Hunt is the best recruiting sergeant for the Australian health care systems they've ever had.. The difference is that we are comparing pay in the public sector with that in the private sector .
In the private sector , no one is compelled to buy a companies products and as such there should be fewer controls on how they run their affairs .
All public sector employees are paid by the tax payer and will generally have to accept less competitive pay in return for job security and a good pension .
Instread of striking , junior Doctors should be putting forward proposals to use the existing funding for NHS services in the most efficient manner possible .
It may be a tough job , but they reap the awards eventually.
Sadly we cannot throw unlimited funds at the NHS . "
What happens to those public sector workers who no longer have job security or a superior pension? My pensions scheme will be DC in the next few years not DB. I have no job security whatsoever. I love my job and I don't regret going into it but I could have made a fuck ton more money in the private sector and I wouldn't blame 22 year old me for going "sod this for a lark, I'm off to the Big 4 to help people evade tax". You want good candidates in the public sector to run it properly, yes even those "pointless" "pen pushing" "bureaucratic" back office services, then you probably need to have something to offer people. What there is to offer is rapidly whittling away. |
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"The waste within the NHS is nothing short of scadalous, the Lord Carter Review has demonstrated where savings of £5B a year can be made. Perhaps if clinicians amongst many other NHS staff embraced the need for change, this problem of the junior Dr contract might have been avoided."
That is an excellent point. The 'average' junior doctor is on £37,500, add on 50% costs for NI, etc so call it £56,000. On that basis we could employ 89,000 more Junior Doctors. Which is a hell of a lot more than we have now! NHS England has a budget of £101billion for 2015/16. That is an extraordinary amount of money. Where does it all go - Junior doctors only cost £2bn. Add on the nurses, ancillary staff and consultants and you have 1.6m people working for the NHS and you still only get to half of the £100 billion. Somewhere in this enormous budget, huge amounts of waste exist. The BMA, the NHS and the Government should be looking to resolve this issue and then pay all NHS staff more. |
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"My views, for what they're worth
The employer has to have the right to change working conditions to suit their economic situations,- without that freedom, they will go bust. And we know that the doctors employer has to make cuts and that they have a mahoosive deficit.
We are lucky in the UK that employees are protected from exploitation through laws and that we have freedoms to choose to work elsewhere if we don't like the conditions offered to us in our contracts we're free to go and work elsewhere.
Also, the UK taxpayers are the ultimate customers, and those footing the bill. We voted, on a macro scale, for a government that was committed to further austerity to reduce a deficit. We, as a populace, are seeking wider coverage around the clock from our health services, but seem unwilling to pay greater taxes for it.
It seems to me that we should be making our own minds up,- do we want more access to NHS at no extra cost, (which is the situation being implemented), do we want a bigger deficit, or do we want to pay more for it..
That verdict should be made at the ballot box
Unfortunately the stupid, reactionary and greedy can always be relied upon to vote Conservative - the party which is seeking to reduce still further the effectiveness of our 'democracy' in reflecting the wishes of the electorate by reducing the level of representation afforded the voter.
Tha ballot box as a method of progressive politics is broken beyond repair. It is not, nor has it been for a long, long time, a mechanism that can be relied upon to protect or even represent the best interests of the public."
Polemic arguments do not enhance debate. Instead of insulting people and generalising, why not propose some plausible alternatives? |
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Clipboard holding is for consultants. Juniors do the actual work 
