FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > The morning after a Brexit?

The morning after a Brexit?

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

OK now this may be risky but I am wondering what the view is of what 'The morning after' will look like should the UK vote to leave the EU this Summer? We don't need to get mired in the 'EU debate' itself as my question is about AFTER we have made the decision.....

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I shall have coffee and croissant

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It will be the exact same except with slightly more economic uncertainty.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We can start making our own laws and determining our own future and the shape of the population...free from the rabid influence of those overpaid, unelected, social-engineering, interfering, Politically Correct EU crooks.

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By *ithintemptationsCouple over a year ago

plymouth

a lot better than the fiasco it is now thats for sure

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"It will be the exact same except with slightly more economic uncertainty."

I don't think it will.

For one thing, a lot of Europeans will no longer have the right to work here and a lot of our expats will no longer have the right to work in Europe.

I think there are a lot of effects people haven't considered.

There are a lot of arrangements between the UK and Europe that will have to be replaced. Farming subsidies are one example.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's a minefield however u look at it do the pros of staying in really outweigh the cons ! Will we regret leaving more than staying in X

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It will be the exact same except with slightly more economic uncertainty.

I don't think it will.

For one thing, a lot of Europeans will no longer have the right to work here and a lot of our expats will no longer have the right to work in Europe.

I think there are a lot of effects people haven't considered.

There are a lot of arrangements between the UK and Europe that will have to be replaced. Farming subsidies are one example."

I tend to agree with you, as the man in the street just reads the bad press that the papers like to print. For example, we have many more expats that live around the world than immigrants living here. Trade deals that are allowed because of 'open' boarders. I would go into more detail, but I won't lol

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"We can start making our own laws and determining our own future and the shape of the population...free from the rabid influence of those overpaid, unelected, social-engineering, interfering, Politically Correct EU crooks."

And we will no longer be protected by the European Convention of Human Rights.

The Tories will be free to treat us all exactly as they wish. They'll use this to support business into even more profit at the expense of workers. Disabled and vulnerable people will have absolutely no protection at all.

You can bet the new laws will be ones to benefit the wealthy and shaft everyone else. That's the Tory way. We really ain't seen nothing yet.

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple over a year ago

Andover

It'll take 2 years to leave so the morning will be a while coming. I am still undecided and frustrated that it is almost impossible to get a straight forward explanation of the opposing views without them being mired in al the bullshit, spin and propaganda that all parties are obsessed with these days.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

For one thing, a lot of Europeans will no longer have the right to work here and a lot of our expats will no longer have the right to work in Europe.

There are a lot of arrangements between the UK and Europe that will have to be replaced. Farming subsidies are one example."

Surely that will make it easier for a UK government to decide who has the right to work here ? A UK government can make it easier workers with required skills to come here and bar those with unrequired skills from coming here and pushing down the wages of the indigenous population ?

If it means the EU (in other words us) from paying farmers to produce milk that is then thrown down the drain while at the same time importing it from France and Denmark then wouldn't it be a good thing ?

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

For one thing, a lot of Europeans will no longer have the right to work here and a lot of our expats will no longer have the right to work in Europe.

There are a lot of arrangements between the UK and Europe that will have to be replaced. Farming subsidies are one example.

I think you're missing the point a bit.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It will probably be a rainy morning.

Nothing will have changed. The result of a referendum to decide whether we should leave or stay will be "leave" or "stay."

If the result were to be "leave," then the politicians will need to do some work. The work will include specifying a leave date and negotiating trade agreements, etc.

It is not as if we would wake up the next morning to find steel 20 foot border controls around our islands (unless someone can find the remote control).

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Some thoughtful comments thanks guys .. my take is that OK on that morning nothing changes as such but I think a feeling of having a big weight taken off our shoulders will emerge. A feeling that OK we now control our future. We can do things quicker of slower as we choose. We can trade as we choose. We can admit or refuse those we choose not who people tell us we must. I honestly feel a better sense of community and justice will come about.

Things like farming subsidies and other financial payments we do get will be far outweighed by the money we won't have to pay in which will be some £9 Billion this year but I am hoping it will be a new dawn in our long history where we take back control.

Oh and the Human Rights thing? Its actually nothing to do with the EU. Its the ECHR which we signed up to in 1950 and we actually drafted it. The difference is that Blair brought it into UK law. So that will stay for good or bad.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ah the first day of the new era. Surely we should all congregate along the Mall to which the triumphant procession of King Nigel the First to Buckingham Palace? The first heads to roll should be the Greek and German immigrants who've been squatting there for far too long ...

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"Some thoughtful comments thanks guys .. my take is that OK on that morning nothing changes as such but I think a feeling of having a big weight taken off our shoulders will emerge. A feeling that OK we now control our future. We can do things quicker of slower as we choose. We can trade as we choose. We can admit or refuse those we choose not who people tell us we must. I honestly feel a better sense of community and justice will come about.

Our current government has no intention of keeping the protection of the ECHR.

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working.

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By *anB451Man over a year ago

Reading

Life will go on as normal.

There may be slightly more economic uncertainty in the short term but within 12 months we'll all wonder what the fuss was about.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Our current government has no intention of keeping the protection of the ECHR.

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working."

None.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

How can we trade with who we like? The other European countries with continue to trade with each other without us, as they have agreements in place. We will become the outsiders in any agreement, and therefore the deals we can make will not be as good as they are now?! Import taxes will probably good up, which will make anything made or grown outside of Britian more expensive.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There's likely to be an almost immediate constitutional crisis as the SNP move for greater powers and a new vote on independence for Scotland.

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By *im himCouple (MM) over a year ago

bedworth

Spot on

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

increasingly like Children of Men

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By *im himCouple (MM) over a year ago

bedworth

Our current government has no intention of keeping the protection of the ECHR.

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working."

Do you really think they all would want to come home ? I would of thought they would be offered citizionship of there host country before anyone is a led to leave . Same would go for all the ones we have here to . Makes sence to me anyway .

There will be lots of scaremongering by main stream media I'm sure but life will pritty much carry on as normal except it won't cost as much . We're the 5th biggest economy in the world . Do you think that not having the Euro flag is going to make any difference .

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By *ngel n tedCouple over a year ago

maidstone

Once we have notification that vote is in and the uk has decided to leave the eu, then we will get the notification that the new "do we really want to leave the eu" vote has begun. Only after we decide yes on that vote, can the "come on guys, i mean do we really really want to leave" vote begin.

If we still decide yes, then the very serious business of the emergency "ok folks, now hand on heart, do we all really honestly want to leave the eu" vote will be implemented

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By *hoenixmanMan over a year ago

Where men are men, and sheep are nervous...!

Life will continue. Mercedes will still sell us cars, Lavazza will still sell us coffee, Dior will still sell us perfume (well... not 'me' exactly...), Santander will still control a fair percentage of the population's money, Croatian holidays will still be in the Thomas Cook brochure, and the whole of Europe will still buy and sell UK shares and currency.

The only difference is that there will be a slight increase in the queue at the Job Centre (or whatever they call them theses days) due to the sudden 'change in circumstances' for all our MEP's and other people 'working' for the EU... cos we won't need 'em anymore...

Been saying for years that business/commerce/trade will continue in almost exactly the same way as it does now, just adjusting to take account of the new circumstances for which they would have had adequate time to prepare.

'Business' did the same in 1939/40 when most of them were convinced we wouldn't last against the Nazis, so started doing deals and entering into contracts with them in the event of a Nazi invasion... Business always takes a very pragmatic view...

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Our current government has no intention of keeping the protection of the ECHR. "

I am sorry where the problem lies is with how our UK law id overruled by the court in Strasbourg. No one has said anything about reducing Human Rights just replacing Blair's subservient law with a British Charter.

And as for people moving about do we allow Americans here to work? Yep. And does America allow Brits there? Yep. Would Germans be allowed here? yep. would Germany allow Brits in? yep. Difference is it us US controlling our borders as of 'the morning after'

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The smugness of Farage will destroy whole towns and cities?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Once we have notification that vote is in and the uk has decided to leave the eu, then we will get the notification that the new "do we really want to leave the eu" vote has begun. Only after we decide yes on that vote, can the "come on guys, i mean do we really really want to leave" vote begin.

If we still decide yes, then the very serious business of the emergency "ok folks, now hand on heart, do we all really honestly want to leave the eu" vote will be implemented

Love it ...

As happened in Denmark, France and Ireland ... But you forget: This is the morning after and the EU will have no say any more ...

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By *ngel n tedCouple over a year ago

maidstone

If we still decide yes, then the very serious business of the emergency "ok folks, now hand on heart, do we all really honestly want to leave the eu" vote will be implemented

Love it ...

As happened in Denmark, France and Ireland ... But you forget: This is the morning after and the EU will have no say any more ..."

Wasn't it a morning after in those countries once as well

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The smugness of Farage will destroy whole towns and cities?

Erm, how?

No one is voting for his smugness and how will towns and cities be destroyed?

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Our current government has no intention of keeping the protection of the ECHR.

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working.

They may not have a choice whether they come home. You may hope they are offered citizenship but that doesn't mean it will happen.

Do you think the people in favour of leaving the EU want Europeans living here want all of them offered citizenship here?

If we leave and stop allowing Europeans to come here to live and work, do you think the countries involved will be inclined to allow Brits to stay there?

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

"The smugness of Farage will destroy whole towns and cities?

Erm, how?

No one is voting for his smugness and how will towns and cities be destroyed?"

check out a film called The Blob .... that should answer your question

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"Our current government has no intention of keeping the protection of the ECHR.

Have they not? Are you absolutely sure about that? (Tip: check your facts first. You may find you are wrong).

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Bearing in mind that one of the reasons the government are threatening to leave the EU is that they won't let us reduce the rights and freedom of movement of EU citizens here, I think a lot of you overestimate how well inclined EU countries will feel towards us. They won't need us.

There is already bad feeling about us always feeling we should be allowed to be the exception to the rules.

We are a small country now, with little manufacturing and far fewer resources than we used to have. We're no longer the empire we used to be. Part of our strength is in belonging to the EU.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Life will continue. Mercedes will still sell us cars, Lavazza will still sell us coffee, Dior will still sell us perfume (well... not 'me' exactly...), Santander will still control a fair percentage of the population's money, Croatian holidays will still be in the Thomas Cook brochure, and the whole of Europe will still buy and sell UK shares and currency. "

I think this is what I was getting at in my question. Business WILL carry on. The EU can't take any action against us on leaving even if they wanted to because we are protected by the Lisbon Treaty. And after that WTO rules protect us. We still of course remain, technically, members of EFTA which the UK helped create in 1960. So 'the morning after' I think it will be back to trading.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

If we still decide yes, then the very serious business of the emergency "ok folks, now hand on heart, do we all really honestly want to leave the eu" vote will be implemented

Love it ...

As happened in Denmark, France and Ireland ... But you forget: This is the morning after and the EU will have no say any more ...

Wasn't it a morning after in those countries once as well"

Well no. They were voting to accept or refuse a new EU Treaty. Something we were denied. They were not voting to leave the EU. And why the point was made so well ....

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Bearing in mind that one of the reasons the government are threatening to leave the EU is that they won't let us reduce the rights and freedom of movement of EU citizens here, I think a lot of you overestimate how well inclined EU countries will feel towards us. They won't need us.

There is already bad feeling about us always feeling we should be allowed to be the exception to the rules.

We are a small country now, with little manufacturing and far fewer resources than we used to have. We're no longer the empire we used to be. Part of our strength is in belonging to the EU."

I was asking about 'the morning after' to get away from the 'in / out' debate. The supposition is we have decided to leave ... what next. And bear in mind we have a $100 Billion trade imbalance with the EU so will they jeopardise that? Maybe they will. Its why I ask the question of people.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

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By *inky-MinxWoman over a year ago

Grantham

I agree, and we will have more money to spend on what needs it in this country.

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By *angtidy42Couple over a year ago

Redditch

Sorry to say guys and girls. It's a vote to leave the EU if that's what happens (I hope so) can see the news about how long it will take to release us from the red tape etc etc etc.

It's going to take years at the minimum I'd say.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working."

A tiny fraction. The majority live on income sources derived from either this country (through pensions, endowments etc)or have skills that are of benefit to the host country and their departure would actually be detrimental to the local economy.

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By *irty Girty From No 30Woman over a year ago

Burbage

"OK now this may be risky but I am wondering what the view is of what 'The morning after' will look like should the UK vote to leave the EU this Summer? We don't need to get mired in the 'EU debate' itself as my question is about AFTER we have made the decision....."

The UK wont ever leave the EU

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

There is already bad feeling about us always feeling we should be allowed to be the exception to the rules.

We are a small country now, with little manufacturing and far fewer resources than we used to have. We're no longer the empire we used to be. Part of our strength is in belonging to the EU.

The morning after is when we'll have to start working these things out though. The issue of ex-pats will have to be faced. We'll have an awful lot of new systems to work out and implement.

I think if we vote to leave, the next morning might be when the impact of everything we have to do will hit.

As for having more money to do what's needed in this country, the vast majority will end up going to the wealthy and to overseas companies. A lot of our infrastructure is, at least in part, owned by foreign countries. We haemorrhage money out of the country.

There's already a lot of money in this country. It goes to 11% pay rises for politicians, not to the needs of the country.

There would be a fuck of a lot more money in this country if we dealt with tax avoidance.

Everything our government do is for the benefit of the wealthy. The more we have, the more will go to them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ah yes - political correctness.

The phrase used when you disagree with someone else's rights being taken seriously.

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

The UK wont ever leave the EU"

I sincerely hope not.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And we will no longer be protected by the European Convention of Human Rights.

I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with the EU. Certainly the ECJ hasn't.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ah yes - political correctness.

The phrase used when you disagree with someone else's rights being taken seriously."

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working.

If we chuck out EU citizens and block them from coming here to work, which is one of the reasons we're threatening to leave the UK, I have no doubt that EU countries will chuck Brits out in response.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It will be the exact same except with slightly more economic uncertainty.

I don't think it will.

For one thing, a lot of Europeans will no longer have the right to work here and a lot of our expats will no longer have the right to work in Europe.

I think there are a lot of effects people haven't considered.

There are a lot of arrangements between the UK and Europe that will have to be replaced. Farming subsidies are one example."

I would imagine the import/export computer systems and entire legal foundation would be one of the biggest ones. At the moment we use a europe-wide system that is funded by the member states. If we leave the EU then we will have to build our own and develop our own legistlation, and your parcel arriving from America will costs several times the amount, because the system has to be funded somehow.

And that's not before you consider the fact that we will lost all our trade deals with the rest of the world - because they're all negotiated with Europe. So pretty much everything you buy will rise in price considerably since we don't have the international negotiating power of Europe.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The UK wont ever leave the EU"

...even though that would condemn it's populace to ever greater one size fits all Soviet style rules and regulations ?

When single countries make bad laws or rules there is always another country to flee to - when a large conglomerate Soviet style autocracy dictates then we have fewer options. Increasing the strength of the EU can only do far worse than good and will only end up imposing the will of those that control it (i.e. Germany) upon the rest.

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By *adystephanieTV/TS over a year ago

glos

I think Brussels may smell a little bad for a while. As all the MEP's and their staff 'shit themselves' and wonder where on this earth they will find another job doing so little

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

As for Brits in EU countries having skills that the country they are in needs, that's not necessarily true. Free movement means Brits can go anywhere, whether they have any skills, or whether their skills are needed.

There are a *lot* of Brits in EU countries currently claiming benefit in those countries.

In fact, I'm fairly sure more Brits claim unemployment benefit in EU countries than EU citizens do here, despite what our government would like us to believe.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We can turn into little Englander, right wing xenophobes. Oh wait a minute....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There are a *lot* of Brits in EU countries currently claiming benefit in those countries.

There are 30'000 UK citizens claiming benefit across the whole EU - there are almost as many EU citizens claiming benefit in just a couple of London boroughs.

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

I was partly correct. It's that there are more Brits claiming benefits in the more wealthy EU countries.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/19/-sp-thousands-britons-claim-benefits-eu

In Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Austria, France and Ireland the number of Britons banking unemployment cheques is almost three times as high as the nationals of those countries receiving parallel UK benefits – 23,011 Britons to 8,720 nationals of those nine countries in the UK.

The findings highlight a more nuanced and complex picture across Europe than the simplistic version painted by anti-immigration and anti-EU campaigners led by Ukip and elements in the Conservative party.

About 2.5% of Britons in other EU countries are claiming unemployment benefits – the same level as the roughly 65,000 EU nationals claiming jobseeker’s allowance in the UK.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There are a *lot* of Brits in EU countries currently claiming benefit in those countries.

There are 30'000 UK citizens claiming benefit across the whole EU - there are almost as many EU citizens claiming benefit in just a couple of London boroughs."

Cite your sources please.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

The morning after Brexit I shall be down the pub celebrating

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

I foresee a lot of tit for tat behaviour if we leave the EU.

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

There are a *lot* of Brits in EU countries currently claiming benefit in those countries.

There are 30'000 UK citizens claiming benefit across the whole EU - there are almost as many EU citizens claiming benefit in just a couple of London boroughs.

Cite your sources please."

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

And we will no longer be protected by the European Convention of Human Rights.

Actually, as I normally have to point out to the EU exit brigade, leaving the EU will have absolutely no effect on our commitments to the European Convention on Human Rights. We are a founding member of the European Human Rights Convention and set it up back in 1948 (maybe a little later I'd have to google for the exact date), long before we joined the EEC.

A the person who argued most strongly for the adoption of the convention wad non other than Winston Churchill (a Tory at the time).

There is no legal way any British Government can ignore the European Convention on Human Rights whether we're in the EU or out.

You can bet the new laws will be ones to benefit the wealthy and shaft everyone else. That's the Tory way. We really ain't seen nothing yet."

As for what it will look like the morning after the referendum if it's an exit vote?..

No different. We will still be a member of the EU regardless of the vote the morning after and will remain so until our exit negotiations are complete (I would say a minimum of 1 year and possibly 5 or more to negotiate our exit).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Our current government has no intention of keeping the protection of the ECHR.

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working."

Jesus, this is the same fear guff we had with the Indy ref. Do you really think they will send the bizzies round to ex pats/ euro workers doors and kick them out? No way that's going to happen.

An end to it going forward maybe, remove those already settled? No way.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I foresee a lot of tit for tat behaviour if we leave the EU."
Well i'm sure the Brit's can a bit of tit for tat from a bunch of un-elected crook's in the EU.

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Our current government has no intention of keeping the protection of the ECHR.

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working.

Jesus, this is the same fear guff we had with the Indy ref. Do you really think they will send the bizzies round to ex pats/ euro workers doors and kick them out? No way that's going to happen.

An end to it going forward maybe, remove those already settled? No way.

I wish I shared your confidence.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

And we will no longer be protected by the European Convention of Human Rights.

A the person who argued most strongly for the adoption of the convention wad non other than Winston Churchill (a Tory at the time).

There is no legal way any British Government can ignore the European Convention on Human Rights whether we're in the EU or out.

You can bet the new laws will be ones to benefit the wealthy and shaft everyone else. That's the Tory way. We really ain't seen nothing yet.

As for what it will look like the morning after the referendum if it's an exit vote?..

That's if the EU even lasts that long anyway. It's seems to lurch from one crisis to another. The EU is pretty much finished anyway, a Brexit will just speed up the process.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Remember when they said if we didn't join the euro our currency would fail..... well it didn't, if anything the euro is in a mess.

The leave campaign is yelling us the benifits of leaving, yet all the stay campaign is doing is telling us things are going to be worse if we leave. Yet don't really give any incentives to stay, because clearly the British people seem fed up with the status quo.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And we will no longer be protected by the European Convention of Human Rights.

You can bet the new laws will be ones to benefit the wealthy and shaft everyone else. That's the Tory way. We really ain't seen nothing yet."
i agree.. Plus the champagne corks will fly in the bankers parties.. Even though they are already above the law

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Remember when they said if we didn't join the euro our currency would fail..... well it didn't, if anything the euro is in a mess.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 30/01/16 16:21:30]

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Life will go on as normal.

There may be slightly more economic uncertainty in the short term but within 12 months we'll all wonder what the fuss was about."

Just like the doom mongers such as Nick Clegg, Peter Mandelson, Ken Clarke, etc predicted it would be disasterous for Britain if we didn't join the euro all those years ago, the event came and went and no disaster happened.

Life carried on as normal when we kept the pound, in the long run it has turned out to be the right decision as we are able to control our own currency much better when global economic difficulties arise as opposed now to all those EU countries who joined the euro and have no control and find themselves in difficulty. People like Nick Clegg, Peter Mandelson and Ken Clarke will now tell you it'll be a disaster if Britain leaves the EU. History has proved they were wrong about the euro and they are wrong now about Brexit.

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

No, our government has no plans to mess with Human Rights law...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-tory-plan-to-scrap-the-human-rights-act-just-moved-one-step-closer-10491173.html

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By *histler21Man over a year ago

Ipswich

I honestly have no idea which way I would vote. I'm someone who tends to accept the status quo. But the sheer bureaucracy and wastefulness of the whole EU model worries me the most - fix this and, I suspect, most people wouldn't hesitate to stay.

We used to rule the world. And own it to some extent. We were great. But things like wars, Lease/Lend have whittled down our riches to the point where we are, save the financial sectors and the confidence that is accorded, a bankrupt country. Expecting the UK to contribute based historic wealth is unrealistic.

Whether we stay in the UE or leave - save for our technological nous - means we don't have the ability to become a powerful nation any more - we rely on others. And when we do 'invent' something - we don't have the resources to exploit it in the main.

Generations of underinvestment means our manufacturing capabilities are restricted. Compare that with Germany and the indistrial backbone that supports their economy.

Just my 2p

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We would have the same trade deals as we import far more FROM Europe than we export TOO Europe and the rest of the EU would not lose that.

Farming subsidies go much more massively to small, uneconomical farms (we would call them small holdings here) which are prevalent in France and Spain...but we pay much more into!

There would be transitional arrangements over movement of people...so no effect for yonks...and our ex-pats working abroad do so because they are the best people for those jobs...so safe enough there....and many, many of them in non-EU countries anyway.

We could make our own trade deals with the majority of the countries outside the EU, without going through the EU beaurocracy. We could protect our steel industry agains dumped Chinese steal (like the U.S. did within 2 weeks) rather than going through an 18 month EU process. (Or we could just ignore the process as Germany has done?)

Other than that I don't see much changing!

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

There will be a rush as the big companies dissapear from UK;

We will look hopefully at the US; who will shrug and say "oops! No point in looking at us; we are dealing with the EU countries; didn't you realise that the only reason we dealt with you was because you were an English speaking EU nation? "

In case no-one has noticed; the US is getting extremely pally with France and Germany recently, and largely ignoring UK....

The Far East will drop any interest in trading with UK ; as they trade with the EU;

And UK trade with EU nations will dwindle as UK will have to impose import/ export taxes, and pay EU import taxes.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And just for the record...the European convention on Human Rights has sod all to do with the EU. It was decided by individual governments and currently no plans to get out of it one way or the other.

Just another scare tactic put about by the stay in campaign.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

In legislative terms the actual 'leaving' will take a day in Parliament to repeal the Act that joined us. Not writing cheques is quite quick as well....

In trade terms we could just replace the word 'EU' with 'UK' and copy the current trade treaties with each of the countries we trade with until a full Bi-lateral deal is struck.

Does anyone think our relationship with the USA will change? Better or worse? Militarily we have NATO but trade? Influence? Respect for leaving or what?

And again as far as the ECHR that is nothing to do with the EU.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I honestly have no idea which way I would vote. I'm someone who tends to accept the status quo. But the sheer bureaucracy and wastefulness of the whole EU model worries me the most - fix this and, I suspect, most people wouldn't hesitate to stay.

Generations of underinvestment means our manufacturing capabilities are restricted. Compare that with Germany and the indistrial backbone that supports their economy.

Just my 2p"

Ah but my question was : The day after we voted to leave what next? So you may have voted to remain in and the country disagreed. What next?

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By *roup sex loversCouple over a year ago

Lincoln

We import far more from Germany and France than we export. Do you really think that they won't allow a trade deal very similar to how it is now ? Germany will be the first at the table asking for a trade deal. No need to be afraid of coming out.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

" And UK trade with EU nations will dwindle as UK will have to impose import/ export taxes, and pay EU import taxes "

Interesting but why would we / they?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"We will look hopefully at the US; who will shrug and say "oops! No point in looking at us; we are dealing with the EU countries; didn't you realise that the only reason we dealt with you was because you were an English speaking EU nation? ""

So was that the reason the UK is the only Tier One partner in the F-35 programme? Without opening up the F-35 debate ..

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

From a purely personal view;

Sit in my usual cafe having croissants and coffee , and grin while I watch from afar as the pound plunges into oblivion, and the politicians panic as to how they are going to cope....

The Germans have a word; Schadenfreude...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We'll have a party and invite the Chinese,Saudis and,for old time's sake,the Americans. It will be like a boot sale for them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm going to start learning Chinese now.

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By *igerandKittenCouple over a year ago

London

We would have to make room for the 1 million or so British immigrants living on the Costa del sol. Also need to find space in the hospitals for these old people having to deal with the change in weather.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think we think to inwardly...

It's always about us leaving?. If you look round, even the once massively euro fans Germany are looking wobbly!

Its funny how people always say we should learn from history when discussing old bad ways, well if we apply that scenario to history, have a look the last time we got thirty countries into a union... Remind me again how that turned out!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't know how a country like Australia survives not being a member of Europe.Do they have houses or washing machines,do they have hospitals and doctors.Who do they trade with...are all the Brits that go to live there aid workers for this poor country. Life would go on....I'm on the fence at the moment...but looking forward to the debate

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The day after a "Leave vote," no difference.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ah yes - political correctness.

The phrase used when you disagree with someone else's rights being taken seriously."

'The Far Right'...the description used by politicians the media and politically correct 'liberals' to describe members of the indigenous population who are opposed to organised criminal activity, rape, sex attacks, groping and theft by adults purporting to be asylum-seeking children.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"From a purely personal view;

Sit in my usual cafe having croissants and coffee , and grin while I watch from afar as the pound plunges into oblivion, and the politicians panic as to how they are going to cope....

The Germans have a word; Schadenfreude..."
.

That made me laugh... The pound plummeting!! That's exactly what the uk government have been trying to do for the last ten years!.

It's very ironic that the best way to achieve it will be to leave the EU.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ah yes - political correctness.

The phrase used when you disagree with someone else's rights being taken seriously.

That kind of comment is far-right no matter where on political spectrum you sit

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"From a purely personal view;

Sit in my usual cafe having croissants and coffee , and grin while I watch from afar as the pound plunges into oblivion, and the politicians panic as to how they are going to cope....

The Germans have a word; Schadenfreude..."

Ah yes I remember how we all felt the 'Schadenfreude' when France joined the Euro ...

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By *eliciouslyNastyMan over a year ago

London

" And UK trade with EU nations will dwindle as UK will have to impose import/ export taxes, and pay EU import taxes

Interesting but why would we / they?"

They won't, nothing will happen at all.

And the uncertainty argument doesn't hold up.

The future is uncertain whether we stay in or leave, that's the nature of the "future".

I have spent a third of my life working/living and dealing with Asia and America.

The biggest failing we have had is not look to these nations along with resource rich Africa. The previous government let the uk down, I was lucky enough to be out of the country for most of their time, but our presence was pathetic...

I simply could never bet on Europe...

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By *eliciouslyNastyMan over a year ago

London

"From a purely personal view;

Sit in my usual cafe having croissants and coffee , and grin while I watch from afar as the pound plunges into oblivion, and the politicians panic as to how they are going to cope....

The Germans have a word; Schadenfreude....

That made me laugh... The pound plummeting!! That's exactly what the uk government have been trying to do for the last ten years!.

It's very ironic that the best way to achieve it will be to leave the EU."

That would be a godsend, pound equal to euro and/or dollar would give the north Western Europeans a serious problem!

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By *ngel n tedCouple over a year ago

maidstone

Maybe a lot of farmers will say, "wot, oi needs to be plantin extra seeds and not leavin moi fields bare".

Housing development folk may be saying "i'm sorry, what do mean i need to give mr barleymow back his fields?"

And fisherman may say "aaargghh come ye swabs, she's cruel mistress, but we need to get out and fish her...a bit more than usual"

The british navy may say "i say, you there...spaniard, get the fuck out of our terratorial waters"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Just a reminder!

The US civil war killed more Americans than every other single war they've ever fought!.. You could say it still rumbles on today!.

Anyone who thinks you can assimilate states into unions without blowback is a fucking lunatic or just devoid of any historical facts

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In fact just look at the 300 year old uk union... Yeah that's totally accepted on both sides perfectly

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"From a purely personal view;

Sit in my usual cafe having croissants and coffee , and grin while I watch from afar as the pound plunges into oblivion, and the politicians panic as to how they are going to cope....

The Germans have a word; Schadenfreude....

That made me laugh... The pound plummeting!! That's exactly what the uk government have been trying to do for the last ten years!.

It's very ironic that the best way to achieve it will be to leave the EU.

That would be a godsend, pound equal to euro and/or dollar would give the north Western Europeans a serious problem!"
.

It makes me chuckle, the whole world has been hell bent on a currency war for 20 years... Were all in a rush to the bottom!!

China gets pulled up constantly by the eu and us for manipulating the Yuan... While we both do it!

Hell what the fuck do people think the euro and letting Greece into it was all about

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"In fact just look at the 300 year old uk union... Yeah that's totally accepted on both sides perfectly"

I think that Referendum has been held . I am more interested in a 'Leave' vote to the EU referendum ...

Having said that it was interesting to here the SNP's Angus Robertson on QT saying 'we don't want a campaign of fear just facts' and then trotted out the SNP mantra of 'If England votes to leave the EU then we will want another referendum!" In other words frightening English voters ...

But anyway ... the morning after ....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ah yes - political correctness.

The phrase used when you disagree with someone else's rights being taken seriously.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In fact just look at the 300 year old uk union... Yeah that's totally accepted on both sides perfectly

I think that Referendum has been held . I am more interested in a 'Leave' vote to the EU referendum ...

But anyway ... the morning after ...."
.

That's the fucking joke though isn't it, that union is like 300 years old and been contentious even to last year!.

If somebody wants to give me a European country, one currency, one treasury, one head of state, one anthem... Then fine sign me up, I'll give it a whirl..

But independent states in a federal union with 4 currencies, 28 treasuries, 27 languages and two different sides to dive on a fucking road... No thanks, the whole idea is ludicrous

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ah yes - political correctness.

The phrase used when you disagree with someone else's rights being taken seriously.

It's a shame that the 'far right' (whatever that means) doesn't support the removal of the base causes of many of those action. In fact, it's a shame that the 'far right' (whatever that means) actively works against things that would combat such criminal activities.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

It is interesting the discussion seems to have focussed on trade, currency, deals, etc .. and very little on migration. Is this one of the better outcomes to a 'Leave' vote?

I just did a little research after reading a post. Last November the UK had a nett trade deficit with the world of some £9.7 Billion. Our nett trade deficit with Germany, France and Holland was £4.5 Billion.

Top 5 Import Sellers:

Germany, China, USA, Holland, France.

Top 5 Export Customers:

USA, Germany, Switzerland, China, Ireland.

Does this give us a bigger or smaller lever in discussions 'the morning after'?

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

Ah yes - political correctness.

The phrase used when you disagree with someone else's rights being taken seriously.

Which indigenous population? The Celts?

If the Anglo Saxons don't like it they can go back to Germania.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Ah yes - political correctness. "

Will that increase or decrease 'the morning after'?

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By *roup sex loversCouple over a year ago

Lincoln

"It is interesting the discussion seems to have focussed on trade, currency, deals, etc .. and very little on migration. Is this one of the better outcomes to a 'Leave' vote?

Top 5 Import Sellers:

Germany, China, USA, Holland, France.

Top 5 Export Customers:

USA, Germany, Switzerland, China, Ireland.

Does this give us a bigger or smaller lever in discussions 'the morning after'?"

As I said in my earlier quote. Germany and France won't want to hurt their own economies and will be the first wanting trade deals sorting out. Leaving the EU won't affect our trade nearly as much as the "in" brigade want us to believe.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

With Cameron and Osborne in charge that thought scares the life out of me, if I was a boss of a hedge fund I guess it's sounds like nirvana

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By *ohnaronMan over a year ago

london

[Removed by poster at 30/01/16 18:22:08]

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By *thwalescplCouple over a year ago

brecon

NEWSFLASH!!!!

Its the morning after the UK left the EU, and things have kicked off.

The French farmers have thrown a shit-fit after being told that they wont be getting such huge subsidies due to the UK no longer paying billions into the EU coffers, and there are riots and blockades everywhere, UK exports of farm-based goods into France have increased as French consumers realise that French farmers cant produce anything of any value.

The Navy, meanwhile, has been drafted in by the Fisheries Commission to combat the number of foreign trawlers currently attempting to fish in UK territorial waters, seeing as the dozy foreigners have killed off their own fish stocks by over-fishing, and pollution. UK fish exports have increased dramatically as a result.

More as we get it.

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working.

If we chuck out EU citizens and block them from coming here to work, which is one of the reasons we're threatening to leave the UK, I have no doubt that EU countries will chuck Brits out in response."

Has anybody ever said that immigrants who are here now would be kicked out? If so, who said it?

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By *ohnaronMan over a year ago

london

Shares and house prices crash. Pound dives. Interest rates soar. Unemployment leaps as companies leave UK. But then this should be obvious to most people.

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

If a majority of Scots vote to stay in then I hope they call for another referendum on their independence, and win it this time.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We would have to make room for the 1 million or so British immigrants living on the Costa del sol. Also need to find space in the hospitals for these old people having to deal with the change in weather.

These include the ones who have been there since well before we joined the EU. Costa del Sol was full of Brits in Francos days...it hasn't changed!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Shares and house prices crash. Pound dives. Interest rates soar. Unemployment leaps as companies leave UK. But then this should be obvious to most people. "

Only to those brainwashed by certain newspapers surely?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Exactly the same as the day before, after the decision is made there is a formal process that in reality takes a few years during which we can be pursued to stay anyway.

So no drama, and if it's a British summer it will probably be raining.

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working.

If we chuck out EU citizens and block them from coming here to work, which is one of the reasons we're threatening to leave the UK, I have no doubt that EU countries will chuck Brits out in response.

Has anybody ever said that immigrants who are here now would be kicked out? If so, who said it? "

Why wouldn't they be?

If they're here under the condition of free movement of people and that condition no longer applies then is there a mechanism planned to ensure they can stay?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why wouldn't they be?

If they're here under the condition of free movement of people and that condition no longer applies then is there a mechanism planned to ensure they can stay? "

No. but neither is there a mechanism to repatriate them, it would be difficult to do so probably won't be done.

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

Why wouldn't they be?

If they're here under the condition of free movement of people and that condition no longer applies then is there a mechanism planned to ensure they can stay?

No. but neither is there a mechanism to repatriate them, it would be difficult to do so probably won't be done."

It's called deportation lol

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

[Removed by poster at 30/01/16 18:45:08]

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"If a majority of Scots vote to stay in then I hope they call for another referendum on their independence, and win it this time. "

The SNP position on Scottish independence and remaining in the EU is illogical, irrational and ridiculous in equal measure. The SNP doesn't want Scotland to be ruled over and bossed about by Westminster but is perfectly happy for an independent Scotland to be ruled over and bossed about by Brussels?

Secondly it's highly unlikely an independent Scotland would be allowed to join the EU anyway because of the Catelonia issue in Spain. Spain doesn't want this to happen and thinks an independent Scotland would be a green light for Catelonia to become independent, so Spain said (during the Scottish referendum) they would block all attempts by an independent Scotland to join the EU.

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

Why wouldn't they be?

If they're here under the condition of free movement of people and that condition no longer applies then is there a mechanism planned to ensure they can stay?

No. but neither is there a mechanism to repatriate them, it would be difficult to do so probably won't be done.

It's called deportation lol"

I'm just going on the fact that everybody that I have heard speak on this matter has been very clear in saying that all current immigrants in this country ( with the exception of illegal immigrants) would be very welcome to stay. Have you ( or anybody else) heard any different?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working.

If we chuck out EU citizens and block them from coming here to work, which is one of the reasons we're threatening to leave the UK, I have no doubt that EU countries will chuck Brits out in response.

Has anybody ever said that immigrants who are here now would be kicked out? If so, who said it? "

What would be the point of a vote that ends free movement of people between the EU and the UK if the government then allows those people to stay who were previously forced on the UK by the EU?

What would the winning side want to have done with all those economic migrants from France, Germany, Poland etc? Would our government be freeing up their jobs for British citizens to take them?

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

"If a majority of Scots vote to stay in then I hope they call for another referendum on their independence, and win it this time.

An extension of that logic would also be that the EU might not want good terms for UK trade as it would encourage others to leave.

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working.

If we chuck out EU citizens and block them from coming here to work, which is one of the reasons we're threatening to leave the UK, I have no doubt that EU countries will chuck Brits out in response.

Has anybody ever said that immigrants who are here now would be kicked out? If so, who said it?

What would be the point of a vote that ends free movement of people between the EU and the UK if the government then allows those people to stay who were previously forced on the UK by the EU?

What would the winning side want to have done with all those economic migrants from France, Germany, Poland etc? Would our government be freeing up their jobs for British citizens to take them?

No one has ever said they would be told to leave.

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By *ohnaronMan over a year ago

london

"If a majority of Scots vote to stay in then I hope they call for another referendum on their independence, and win it this time.

Very well put.

Sentiment not rational drives most things.

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

Why wouldn't they be?

If they're here under the condition of free movement of people and that condition no longer applies then is there a mechanism planned to ensure they can stay?

No. but neither is there a mechanism to repatriate them, it would be difficult to do so probably won't be done.

It's called deportation lol

You think so? I find that funny.

There is always a bogeyman to the right wing, they are not satisfied unless they have someone/something to hate.

You honestly think that the right wing will accept millions of EU migrants staying here and not kick up a fuss about it?

They know how to pick their battles. They are focused on getting out of the EU and when that's done they'll move on to something else.

Lets hypothetically say we vote to leave the EU - don't think that will be the end of the issue of EU migrants still in the UK.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"If a majority of Scots vote to stay in then I hope they call for another referendum on their independence, and win it this time.

An extension of that logic would also be that the EU might not want good terms for UK trade as it would encourage others to leave. "

We would be protected by international trade laws though so the EU wouldn't be able to unfairly 'punish' us for leaving their corrupt little club. Besides it looks from the way elections are going all over Europe that many want to leave anyway before a Brexit, they don't need much more encouragement.

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

Why wouldn't they be?

If they're here under the condition of free movement of people and that condition no longer applies then is there a mechanism planned to ensure they can stay?

No. but neither is there a mechanism to repatriate them, it would be difficult to do so probably won't be done.

It's called deportation lol

You think so? I find that funny.

There is always a bogeyman to the right wing, they are not satisfied unless they have someone/something to hate.

You honestly think that the right wing will accept millions of EU migrants staying here and not kick up a fuss about it?

They know how to pick their battles. They are focused on getting out of the EU and when that's done they'll move on to something else.

Lets hypothetically say we vote to leave the EU - don't think that will be the end of the issue of EU migrants still in the UK. "

What a lot of words you use just to confirm that no one has ever said it and that it is a completely made up nonsense argument.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working.

If we chuck out EU citizens and block them from coming here to work, which is one of the reasons we're threatening to leave the UK, I have no doubt that EU countries will chuck Brits out in response.

Has anybody ever said that immigrants who are here now would be kicked out? If so, who said it?

What would be the point of a vote that ends free movement of people between the EU and the UK if the government then allows those people to stay who were previously forced on the UK by the EU?

What would the winning side want to have done with all those economic migrants from France, Germany, Poland etc? Would our government be freeing up their jobs for British citizens to take them?

No one has ever said they would be told to leave.

Nor have they said they'd be allowed to stay. Just what is their position? A huge amount of noise has been made about foreigners from the EU taking the jobs of British people and stopping that from happening. However, noone is telling us what the plan is if the vote is to leave the EU. Their future is known if we vote to stay in, but what would the 'winning' side want to do about them?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

" What would be the point of a vote that ends free movement of people between the EU and the UK if the government then allows those people to stay who were previously forced on the UK by the EU?

What would the winning side want to have done with all those economic migrants from France, Germany, Poland etc? Would our government be freeing up their jobs for British citizens to take them? "

Well given someone is here there are two options: Deport them en masse (unlikely) or let them stay (more likely). But we can then use a Visa system like Australia or the USA and basically say to those INJ work: "You can remain here for 2 years. After that this Visa runs out and you will leave. Alternatively you can apply for British Citizenship"

What would certainly happen is all welfare payments to foreign Nationals living abroad would stop immediately causing great distress among mothers in Warsaw and Bucharest.

We could also deport those who are here and not working as they will not be entitled to any welfare payments either. (Genuine Asylum seekers excepted).

And 'the morning after' we would not have to let anyone in without a Visa. A system which may take many many many months to arrange ....

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working.

If we chuck out EU citizens and block them from coming here to work, which is one of the reasons we're threatening to leave the UK, I have no doubt that EU countries will chuck Brits out in response.

Has anybody ever said that immigrants who are here now would be kicked out? If so, who said it?

What would be the point of a vote that ends free movement of people between the EU and the UK if the government then allows those people to stay who were previously forced on the UK by the EU?

What would the winning side want to have done with all those economic migrants from France, Germany, Poland etc? Would our government be freeing up their jobs for British citizens to take them?

No one has ever said they would be told to leave.

Incorrect. People have said that they could stay. Very easy to find it if you want to.

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

Why wouldn't they be?

If they're here under the condition of free movement of people and that condition no longer applies then is there a mechanism planned to ensure they can stay?

No. but neither is there a mechanism to repatriate them, it would be difficult to do so probably won't be done.

It's called deportation lol

You think so? I find that funny.

There is always a bogeyman to the right wing, they are not satisfied unless they have someone/something to hate.

You honestly think that the right wing will accept millions of EU migrants staying here and not kick up a fuss about it?

They know how to pick their battles. They are focused on getting out of the EU and when that's done they'll move on to something else.

Lets hypothetically say we vote to leave the EU - don't think that will be the end of the issue of EU migrants still in the UK.

What a lot of words you use just to confirm that no one has ever said it and that it is a completely made up nonsense argument."

Silly me, if we vote to leave there'll be no more protest over EU migrants, the right-wing will go silent.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 30/01/16 19:05:30]

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

" Lets hypothetically say we vote to leave the EU - don't think that will be the end of the issue of EU migrants still in the UK. "

In this Thread it isn't hypothetical. It has happened and it is 'the morning after' so what do you think will happen?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why wouldn't they be?

If they're here under the condition of free movement of people and that condition no longer applies then is there a mechanism planned to ensure they can stay?

No. but neither is there a mechanism to repatriate them, it would be difficult to do so probably won't be done.

It's called deportation lol"

Won't happen, how about those who have had children since arriving? those in relationships with UK citizens, those in important jobs e.g. nurses, doctors, teachers, hell even check out staff are not replaceable overnight.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working.

If we chuck out EU citizens and block them from coming here to work, which is one of the reasons we're threatening to leave the UK, I have no doubt that EU countries will chuck Brits out in response.

Has anybody ever said that immigrants who are here now would be kicked out? If so, who said it?

What would be the point of a vote that ends free movement of people between the EU and the UK if the government then allows those people to stay who were previously forced on the UK by the EU?

What would the winning side want to have done with all those economic migrants from France, Germany, Poland etc? Would our government be freeing up their jobs for British citizens to take them?

No one has ever said they would be told to leave.

Incorrect. People have said that they could stay. Very easy to find it if you want to."

Which people?

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

Why wouldn't they be?

If they're here under the condition of free movement of people and that condition no longer applies then is there a mechanism planned to ensure they can stay?

No. but neither is there a mechanism to repatriate them, it would be difficult to do so probably won't be done.

It's called deportation lol

You think so? I find that funny.

There is always a bogeyman to the right wing, they are not satisfied unless they have someone/something to hate.

You honestly think that the right wing will accept millions of EU migrants staying here and not kick up a fuss about it?

They know how to pick their battles. They are focused on getting out of the EU and when that's done they'll move on to something else.

Lets hypothetically say we vote to leave the EU - don't think that will be the end of the issue of EU migrants still in the UK.

What a lot of words you use just to confirm that no one has ever said it and that it is a completely made up nonsense argument.

Silly me, if we vote to leave there'll be no more protest over EU migrants, the right-wing will go silent. "

The existing EU migrants. Also, the left wing will go quiet too on that issue. Why are you trying to make out now that it is the right wingers who want to leave?

The labour leave group is growing very quickly.

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By *riskynriskyCouple over a year ago

Essex.

Zombies

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working.

If we chuck out EU citizens and block them from coming here to work, which is one of the reasons we're threatening to leave the UK, I have no doubt that EU countries will chuck Brits out in response.

Has anybody ever said that immigrants who are here now would be kicked out? If so, who said it?

What would be the point of a vote that ends free movement of people between the EU and the UK if the government then allows those people to stay who were previously forced on the UK by the EU?

What would the winning side want to have done with all those economic migrants from France, Germany, Poland etc? Would our government be freeing up their jobs for British citizens to take them?

No one has ever said they would be told to leave.

Incorrect. People have said that they could stay. Very easy to find it if you want to.

Which people?"

As I said, it's very easy to find out if you want to.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

" Why are you trying to make out now that it is the right wingers who want to leave? "

In this Thread we voted to leave ... How will Right and Left handle it?

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

" Why are you trying to make out now that it is the right wingers who want to leave?

In this Thread we voted to leave ... How will Right and Left handle it?"

To be fair, I don't think it is a right or left issue. There are people on all sides who will vote in opposite directions.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

Why wouldn't they be?

If they're here under the condition of free movement of people and that condition no longer applies then is there a mechanism planned to ensure they can stay?

No. but neither is there a mechanism to repatriate them, it would be difficult to do so probably won't be done.

It's called deportation lol

You think so? I find that funny.

There is always a bogeyman to the right wing, they are not satisfied unless they have someone/something to hate.

You honestly think that the right wing will accept millions of EU migrants staying here and not kick up a fuss about it?

They know how to pick their battles. They are focused on getting out of the EU and when that's done they'll move on to something else.

Lets hypothetically say we vote to leave the EU - don't think that will be the end of the issue of EU migrants still in the UK.

What a lot of words you use just to confirm that no one has ever said it and that it is a completely made up nonsense argument.

Silly me, if we vote to leave there'll be no more protest over EU migrants, the right-wing will go silent.

The existing EU migrants. Also, the left wing will go quiet too on that issue. Why are you trying to make out now that it is the right wingers who want to leave?

The labour leave group is growing very quickly."

Even loony lefty Corbyn is a eurosceptic, at least he was as a backbencher before he became leader of the Labour party.

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By *hoenixmanMan over a year ago

Where men are men, and sheep are nervous...!

The trouble is, OP, that the majority will only listen to what they are being fed by the media... and we all know about the vested interests in the media.... ! Also, the vast majority do not have my/our knowledge of the history of business/commerce, so they are unlikely to have any reference to other major events in World history on which to base their decision in the voting booth.

Governments (of all kinds), Leaders, Monarchs all come and go..... Trade always carries on....

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

Why wouldn't they be?

If they're here under the condition of free movement of people and that condition no longer applies then is there a mechanism planned to ensure they can stay?

No. but neither is there a mechanism to repatriate them, it would be difficult to do so probably won't be done.

It's called deportation lol

You think so? I find that funny.

There is always a bogeyman to the right wing, they are not satisfied unless they have someone/something to hate.

You honestly think that the right wing will accept millions of EU migrants staying here and not kick up a fuss about it?

They know how to pick their battles. They are focused on getting out of the EU and when that's done they'll move on to something else.

Lets hypothetically say we vote to leave the EU - don't think that will be the end of the issue of EU migrants still in the UK.

What a lot of words you use just to confirm that no one has ever said it and that it is a completely made up nonsense argument.

Silly me, if we vote to leave there'll be no more protest over EU migrants, the right-wing will go silent.

The existing EU migrants. Also, the left wing will go quiet too on that issue. Why are you trying to make out now that it is the right wingers who want to leave?

The labour leave group is growing very quickly.

Even loony lefty Corbyn is a eurosceptic, at least he was as a backbencher before he became leader of the Labour party. "

I believe that particular man of principle changed his principles to gain a block vote or two.

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

Why wouldn't they be?

If they're here under the condition of free movement of people and that condition no longer applies then is there a mechanism planned to ensure they can stay?

No. but neither is there a mechanism to repatriate them, it would be difficult to do so probably won't be done.

It's called deportation lol

The child of EU migrants is not considered British if at least one of the parents is not British.

If you've read any right-wing newspapers there has been a lot of claims lately that foreign staff are putting us at risk and that we should be replacing them with British staff. The Daily Mail had a big feature on it not a few months ago.

So you see, keeping existing migrants were they are isn't much of an issue now, but they can bide their time before campaigning against it or undermining it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" Why are you trying to make out now that it is the right wingers who want to leave?

In this Thread we voted to leave ... How will Right and Left handle it?"

Both would set about recruiting, training, and finding accomodation for about 10,000 civil servants who will be needed to sort out international trade and other treaties we won't have as the Eec has done that since the 70s.

but like I said above nothing will happen for at least a year, and probably a lot longer. I would estimate 10 to 30 years before there is the slightest difference, except huge amounts of tax spent on doing for ourselves what we currently do as a shared unit with Europe.

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

Why wouldn't they be?

If they're here under the condition of free movement of people and that condition no longer applies then is there a mechanism planned to ensure they can stay?

No. but neither is there a mechanism to repatriate them, it would be difficult to do so probably won't be done.

It's called deportation lol

The child of EU migrants is not considered British if at least one of the parents is not British.

So you see, keeping existing migrants were they are isn't much of an issue now, but they can bide their time before campaigning against it or undermining it. "

Will you be casting your vote on hypothetical issues?

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

" Lets hypothetically say we vote to leave the EU - don't think that will be the end of the issue of EU migrants still in the UK.

In this Thread it isn't hypothetical. It has happened and it is 'the morning after' so what do you think will happen?"

I'll crack open some champagne that the dark cloud as brought a silver lining - it will be the end of UKrap.

And the gravy train will have stopped for Farage.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Need to get out a bit more buddy ....

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By *hoenixmanMan over a year ago

Where men are men, and sheep are nervous...!

"Just a reminder!

The US civil war killed more Americans than every other single war they've ever fought!.. You could say it still rumbles on today!.

Anyone who thinks you can assimilate states into unions without blowback is a fucking lunatic or just devoid of any historical facts"

Quite. I think... Lol!

The other fact to consider about what happened in the USA 150 years ago is that both sides spoke the same language.... and in the EU there are how many exactly...??? The words 'square peg' and 'round hole' come to mind...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well half my friends are French they are already looking into how to apply to stay here. My ex who is Swedish wants to move back here too. Some couples are quite worried because one half is English. If Britain leaves then Scotland will definitely want another referendum.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Just a reminder!

The US civil war killed more Americans than every other single war they've ever fought!.. You could say it still rumbles on today!.

Anyone who thinks you can assimilate states into unions without blowback is a fucking lunatic or just devoid of any historical facts

Quite. I think... Lol!

The other fact to consider about what happened in the USA 150 years ago is that both sides spoke the same language.... and in the EU there are

how many exactly...??? The words 'square peg' and 'round hole' come to mind..."

Nothing like this has been done before there is no precedent. I'd rather be a slave to Europe than America's errand boy.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If a majority of Scots vote to stay in then I hope they call for another referendum on their independence, and win it this time.

An extension of that logic would also be that the EU might not want good terms for UK trade as it would encourage others to leave. "

So they would decide to cease trading with a country that they export about four times as much to as they import from....so they would loose hundreds of billions of Euros/Pounds a year.....that's really likely NOT!

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

"If a majority of Scots vote to stay in then I hope they call for another referendum on their independence, and win it this time.

An extension of that logic would also be that the EU might not want good terms for UK trade as it would encourage others to leave.

Where did I say 'cease trading'?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working.

If we chuck out EU citizens and block them from coming here to work, which is one of the reasons we're threatening to leave the UK, I have no doubt that EU countries will chuck Brits out in response.

Has anybody ever said that immigrants who are here now would be kicked out? If so, who said it?

What would be the point of a vote that ends free movement of people between the EU and the UK if the government then allows those people to stay who were previously forced on the UK by the EU?

What would the winning side want to have done with all those economic migrants from France, Germany, Poland etc? Would our government be freeing up their jobs for British citizens to take them?

No one has ever said they would be told to leave.

Incorrect. People have said that they could stay. Very easy to find it if you want to.

Which people?

As I said, it's very easy to find out if you want to."

I've looked and can't find that - why not let everyone know who is saying this?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Whilst Corbyn has always been critical of the EU (most recently around the appalling treatment of Greece), he has generally called for reform not exit.

This referendum is rapidly transforming into one on immigration, not European Union membership so the idea that 3 million EU citizens would be happily handed British passports is cognitive dissonance at best.

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working.

If we chuck out EU citizens and block them from coming here to work, which is one of the reasons we're threatening to leave the UK, I have no doubt that EU countries will chuck Brits out in response.

Has anybody ever said that immigrants who are here now would be kicked out? If so, who said it?

What would be the point of a vote that ends free movement of people between the EU and the UK if the government then allows those people to stay who were previously forced on the UK by the EU?

What would the winning side want to have done with all those economic migrants from France, Germany, Poland etc? Would our government be freeing up their jobs for British citizens to take them?

No one has ever said they would be told to leave.

Incorrect. People have said that they could stay. Very easy to find it if you want to.

Which people?

As I said, it's very easy to find out if you want to.

I've looked and can't find that - why not let everyone know who is saying this?"

You've looked? There were 14 minutes between my comment and you reply!!!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What would be the point of a vote that ends free movement of people between the EU and the UK if the government then allows those people to stay who were previously forced on the UK by the EU?

What would the winning side want to have done with all those economic migrants from France, Germany, Poland etc? Would our government be freeing up their jobs for British citizens to take them?

After that this Visa runs out and you will leave. Alternatively you can apply for British Citizenship"

What would certainly happen is all welfare payments to foreign Nationals living abroad would stop immediately causing great distress among mothers in Warsaw and Bucharest.

So the net effect is that all the people who some people say we didn't want here can stay for two years anyway and then they can become British citizens anyway? Is that going to please all those people who just wanted foreigners out? Or will it be good enough to say we've pissed off a few mothers in Warsaw and Bucharest?

We could also deport those who are here and not working as they will not be entitled to any welfare payments either. (Genuine Asylum seekers excepted).

And 'the morning after' we would not have to let anyone in without a Visa. A system which may take many many many months to arrange ....

True we can force everyone to get visas to enter the UK. And on a tit for tat basis they'll do that to us. More red tape not less.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working.

If we chuck out EU citizens and block them from coming here to work, which is one of the reasons we're threatening to leave the UK, I have no doubt that EU countries will chuck Brits out in response.

Has anybody ever said that immigrants who are here now would be kicked out? If so, who said it?

What would be the point of a vote that ends free movement of people between the EU and the UK if the government then allows those people to stay who were previously forced on the UK by the EU?

What would the winning side want to have done with all those economic migrants from France, Germany, Poland etc? Would our government be freeing up their jobs for British citizens to take them?

No one has ever said they would be told to leave.

Incorrect. People have said that they could stay. Very easy to find it if you want to.

Which people?

As I said, it's very easy to find out if you want to.

I've looked and can't find that - why not let everyone know who is saying this?

You've looked? There were 14 minutes between my comment and you reply!!!!!!!

Sadly I'm not hanging on your every word. If you can't say what the source is, I guess you can't say. No problem.

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By *hoenixmanMan over a year ago

Where men are men, and sheep are nervous...!

"Just a reminder!

The US civil war killed more Americans than every other single war they've ever fought!.. You could say it still rumbles on today!.

Anyone who thinks you can assimilate states into unions without blowback is a fucking lunatic or just devoid of any historical facts

Quite. I think... Lol!

The other fact to consider about what happened in the USA 150 years ago is that both sides spoke the same language.... and in the EU there are

how many exactly...??? The words 'square peg' and 'round hole' come to mind...

Nothing like this has been done before there is no precedent. I'd rather be a slave to Europe than America's errand boy. "

Neither I nor the person who posted that statement are saying we should be Americas errand boy.

The point both of us were getting it is that the US Civil War was caused by the forced amalgamation into a 'union' of two distinct sets of states which had a completely different view of how things should be done. It boiled and boiled, and then boiled over when the South seceded from the Union in disagreement with the plans of a President from the North.

At the point of secession, both sides used the same currency (where have we heard that before??) and both spoke the same language (not 27 of the things!), but the bottom line is that the 'Union' (there's that word again) was bring forced upon all states, whether they liked it or not. And that led to one of the bloodiest, costliest conflicts in modern history.

Now apply that to where we are with the EU..... I don't think that the UK would go to war with any body in the EU if we were to brexit or stay in... but you only have to remember how recently other newer states were at war with each other to realise that tensions can quickly escalate if member states which, historically, hate each others guts (basically!) are forced into a Union with each other..

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Got to thank everyone for some brilliant comments. And no toys out the pram and no one hijacked it.

yet.

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working.

If we chuck out EU citizens and block them from coming here to work, which is one of the reasons we're threatening to leave the UK, I have no doubt that EU countries will chuck Brits out in response.

Has anybody ever said that immigrants who are here now would be kicked out? If so, who said it?

What would be the point of a vote that ends free movement of people between the EU and the UK if the government then allows those people to stay who were previously forced on the UK by the EU?

What would the winning side want to have done with all those economic migrants from France, Germany, Poland etc? Would our government be freeing up their jobs for British citizens to take them?

No one has ever said they would be told to leave.

Incorrect. People have said that they could stay. Very easy to find it if you want to.

Which people?

As I said, it's very easy to find out if you want to.

I've looked and can't find that - why not let everyone know who is saying this?

You've looked? There were 14 minutes between my comment and you reply!!!!!!!

Sadly I'm not hanging on your every word. If you can't say what the source is, I guess you can't say. No problem."

It's out there and very very very easy to find IF you want to find it. I'm not going to do your research for you, I think it's important that people find things out themselves, that way people don't tend to make up nonsense, baseless, straw man arguments.

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By *hoenixmanMan over a year ago

Where men are men, and sheep are nervous...!

"Got to thank everyone for some brilliant comments. And no toys out the pram and no one hijacked it.

yet.

Maybe UKIP have a weekend conference on.... could explain it....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Just a reminder!

The US civil war killed more Americans than every other single war they've ever fought!.. You could say it still rumbles on today!.

Anyone who thinks you can assimilate states into unions without blowback is a fucking lunatic or just devoid of any historical facts

Quite. I think... Lol!

The other fact to consider about what happened in the USA 150 years ago is that both sides spoke the same language.... and in the EU there are

how many exactly...??? The words 'square peg' and 'round hole' come to mind...

Nothing like this has been done before there is no precedent. I'd rather be a slave to Europe than America's errand boy.

Neither I nor the person who posted that statement are saying we should be Americas errand boy.

I never thought of it like that. Plus abolishing slavery meant the south was screwed economically.

I'm voting stay. We're so far in and getting out would be such a long process anyway. Scotland would leave if the UK leaves I rally don't want that.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

" So the net effect is that all the people who some people say we didn't want here can stay for two years anyway and then they can become British citizens anyway? Is that going to please all those people who just wanted foreigners out?"

Well I did offer the option of deportation but said it was unlikely. We cannot undo what has been done having voted to leave. We can only take control of what we have. And if someone doesn't want to become British then they leave. I suspect the relief of not seeing thousands of 'foreigners' getting off buses to go straight down the dole office is what we really left the EU for ...

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I'm voting stay. We're so far in and getting out would be such a long process anyway. Scotland would leave if the UK leaves I rally don't want that. "

So in the context of this Thread where we have left the EU why can't we think we can extricate ourselves? And so the SNP's fear tactics worked on you?

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By *hoenixmanMan over a year ago

Where men are men, and sheep are nervous...!

"I never thought of it like that. Plus abolishing slavery meant the south was screwed economically.

I'm voting stay. We're so far in and getting out would be such a long process anyway. Scotland would leave if the UK leaves I rally don't want that."

I'm voting out, but not for any reason put forward by UKIP. It worries the life out of me that, in a very few years, part of the Union agreement is that we will be surrendering (no pun int.) our forces to the control of an 'EU Army'. Sorry, but we have other interests around the World to protect, whether you agree with 'protecting' leftovers from our colonial past or not. The EU 'could' veto us from providing protection... so where does that leave them?

My biggest problem with the whole EU 'thang' is down to trade and commerce. The EU is, in reality, a group of 27 VERY disparate countries with widely differing agendas and 'modus operandi' (I cite Greece here....) in how they conduct trade and commerce.

We have always taken the 'we stand alone' attitude in the EU, probably due to our island mentality. Other countries in the EU are far more collegiate to the point of ganging up against others.

The more we are pushed into total Union, the more these differences will come to the surface.

It genuinely worries me for my boys futures...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

How many ex-pats do you think we'll have to accept back? All without jobs, at least initially. And replacing many Europeans that are working.

If we chuck out EU citizens and block them from coming here to work, which is one of the reasons we're threatening to leave the UK, I have no doubt that EU countries will chuck Brits out in response.

Has anybody ever said that immigrants who are here now would be kicked out? If so, who said it?

What would be the point of a vote that ends free movement of people between the EU and the UK if the government then allows those people to stay who were previously forced on the UK by the EU?

What would the winning side want to have done with all those economic migrants from France, Germany, Poland etc? Would our government be freeing up their jobs for British citizens to take them?

No one has ever said they would be told to leave.

Incorrect. People have said that they could stay. Very easy to find it if you want to.

Which people?

As I said, it's very easy to find out if you want to.

I've looked and can't find that - why not let everyone know who is saying this?

You've looked? There were 14 minutes between my comment and you reply!!!!!!!

Sadly I'm not hanging on your every word. If you can't say what the source is, I guess you can't say. No problem.

No problem if you don't know who those 'people' were that you were relying on for your answer to my question. There's probably a name for that logical fallacy too.

I don 't think any of us can actually say what will happen for many very good reasons - top of my list being I've no idea who'll be making the decisions. It sounded like you did, but it's more fun to keep it secret.

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By *hoenixmanMan over a year ago

Where men are men, and sheep are nervous...!

"Scotland would leave if the UK leaves I rally don't want that."

If the UK leaves, Scotland would automatically leave as it is, currently, part of the UK. As I understand it, if Scotland is still part of the UK at time of exit, it would have to leave the United Kingdom and then re-apply for membership of the EU.

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

"Scotland would leave if the UK leaves I rally don't want that.

If the UK leaves, Scotland would automatically leave as it is, currently, part of the UK. "

No bigger advert for independence.

Northern Ireland might vote for 'in' too.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm voting stay. We're so far in and getting out would be such a long process anyway. Scotland would leave if the UK leaves I rally don't want that.

So in the context of this Thread where we have left the EU why can't we think we can extricate ourselves? And so the SNP's fear tactics worked on you?"

Well I believe that a decent education should be free, and that working people should be able to buy houses, that disabled people shouldn't be forced to work (that move by the blues has been declared illegal btw), and that UK needs to improve its financial regulation which has has recently been found to be the worst in the EU. I want a country where we don't invite Saudi Arabia into the UN. They practice the type of Islam and IS. If Scotland leave that will never ever happen, because Scots never vote right. They also have a fantastic education system, plus I am half Scottish. Sorry I'm on iPhone no doubt this statement is a mess.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The whole vote is about undoing what's been done. So if we're not going to bother.... well why bother?

How much of your time do you waste keeping an eye on bus stations?

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"I'm voting stay. We're so far in and getting out would be such a long process anyway. Scotland would leave if the UK leaves I rally don't want that. "

Would Scotland leave the Uk though in a 2nd Scottish referendum? Much of the SNP's case was based on the price of oil and oil price has now plummeted. Plus with Spanish threats to block an independent Scotland joining the EU the case that they could join the EU is not set in stone anyway. Not everyone in Scotland is pro EU, Scotland elected a UKIP MEP.

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

"Scotland elected a UKIP MEP. "

Why didn't they elect a UKrap MP in 2015?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Well I believe that a decent education should be free, and that working people should be able to buy houses, that disabled people shouldn't be forced to work (that move by the blues has been declared illegal btw), and that UK needs to improve its financial regulation which has has recently been found to be the worst in the EU. I want a country where we don't invite Saudi Arabia into the UN. They practice the type of Islam and IS. If Scotland leave that will never ever happen, because Scots never vote right. They also have a fantastic education system, plus I am half Scottish. Sorry I'm on iPhone no doubt this statement is a mess. "

All very laudable but as of today having left the EU nothing you seem worried about has actually changed ..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So, what to do with the existing EU migrants in this country? According to: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30111694

"Mark Reckless suggested existing EU migrants would only be allowed to remain in the UK for "a transitional period" should the UK quit the EU.

But Mr Farage insisted UKIP respected the "rule of law and British justice". And he downplayed the comments as a "minor cause for confusion"."

So the two top UKIP men were saying different things, although Farage might note that once we are out of the EU, those people no longer have a legal right to stay, so could be removed under the rule of law.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Scotland elected a UKIP MEP.

Why didn't they elect a UKrap MP in 2015?"

First past the post system does new parties no favours.

But in 2014 only 2 of the 6 MEP seats went to the SNP (2 went Labour, 1 UKIP and 1 Tory) and that was in the middle of the Independence referendum build up.

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

"Would Scotland leave the Uk though in a 2nd Scottish referendum? Much of the SNP's case was based on the price of oil and oil price has now plummeted. Plus with Spanish threats to block an independent Scotland joining the EU the case that they could join the EU is not set in stone anyway. Not everyone in Scotland is pro EU, Scotland elected a UKIP MEP. "

Why would Scotland want to continue playing 2nd fiddle to England, always being held back by Westminster, when it could be like the Republic of Ireland and thrive?

Hopefully the Yes campaign will be ready to get going again.

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