FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > We will be better off out of the EU.

We will be better off out of the EU.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Even if the PM wins new reforms, as long as we are in the EU we will be at the mercy of those in Brussels.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Okay, Mike.

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

They used to be called London Sprouts

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Good.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan over a year ago

London

"Even if the PM wins new reforms, as long as we are in the EU we will be at the mercy of those in Brussels."

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. .

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Even if the PM wins new reforms, as long as we are in the EU we will be at the mercy of those in Brussels.

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. ."

In addition my worry is this - we leave they lose a strong economy paying into the pot. I'm sure through trade and other tariff the EU will aim to recouple some of that lost money.

Also the EU does aim to hold up our rights and environmental standards on such issues as air pollution, bathing and drinking water quality...I'm sceptical as to whether an independent British government would hold them to such a high standard.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

I cba with this thread already

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I cba with this thread already "

I'm proud of my interest in politics and contribution to this thread:

"Good."

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

I got an Irish passport last month so I don't give a shit what y'all do. I'll be fine.

But for those who think the grass is greener... does it always turn out that way?

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By *omeotherguyMan over a year ago

Derbyshire

"Even if the PM wins new reforms, as long as we are in the EU we will be at the mercy of those in Brussels."

Thanks for that. Informative, full of insight.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I cba with this thread already

I'm proud of my interest in politics and contribution to this thread:

Good."

You're entirely right, of course.

But the way the OP has set it up... urgh...

Life's too short already!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Greenland — The first nation to leave the EU, now has higher standard of living than Britain, France or Germany

March 2015: Iceland, who were near to joining the EU pulled out and decided that the monster was not for them.

Iceland still has full control over its immigration, fishing and agriculture policies, free from EU rules.

It remains with Norway, Switzerland and Greenland out of the EU's demands and bullying.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Greenland — The first nation to leave the EU, now has higher standard of living than Britain, France or Germany

March 2015: Iceland, who were near to joining the EU pulled out and decided that the monster was not for them.

Iceland still has full control over its immigration, fishing and agriculture policies, free from EU rules.

It remains with Norway, Switzerland and Greenland out of the EU's demands and bullying."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Awww poor wittle Britain being bullied by those nasty Fwench and German boys.

Let's wun away. That's the way to stand up to 'em!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Awww poor wittle Britain being bullied by those nasty Fwench and German boys.

Let's wun away. That's the way to stand up to 'em!"

Sounds like a good plan to me.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Greenland — The first nation to leave the EU, now has higher standard of living than Britain, France or Germany

March 2015: Iceland, who were near to joining the EU pulled out and decided that the monster was not for them.

Iceland still has full control over its immigration, fishing and agriculture policies, free from EU rules.

It remains with Norway, Switzerland and Greenland out of the EU's demands and bullying."

Greenland has a total population less than half that of Colchester; less than 1% of Britain's.

90% of its income comes from fish and it also receives a $660,000,000 support from Denmark every year to support its inhabitants. It left the EU to protect its fishing trade. Britain is too close to Europe to be able to do that.

How therefore is Greenland a relevant example of how Britain will fair after leaving the EU?

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By *iss_Samantha_LovecockTV/TS over a year ago

bmth /poole sometimes blandford

lets just go for it and see what happens

truth is no one really knows the outcome

..why are people so frighted of change !

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Greenland — The first nation to leave the EU, now has higher standard of living than Britain, France or Germany

March 2015: Iceland, who were near to joining the EU pulled out and decided that the monster was not for them.

Iceland still has full control over its immigration, fishing and agriculture policies, free from EU rules.

It remains with Norway, Switzerland and Greenland out of the EU's demands and bullying."

Going to pull you up on something here. Greenland isn't a sovereign state - it is an autonomous area belonging to the Kingdom of Denmark - the EU decided to give the area special exemptions in regards to migration as the Danish courts argued that A.) Not many people want to permanently move to Greenland, and B.) It has a fragile ecosystem and the area cannot support a large human population, therefore it must remain stable.

Also of Norway, Switzerland, and Iceland all have to pay to access the free market, and everything they trade within Europe is subject to the same regulations.

In addition, immigration is low to Iceland because, you know, it's Iceland - a lovely place to visit, but not live because of a few months where you are lucky to get an hour of daylight. The same goes for Norway, though it is more to do with there only really being 3 large cities there.

All the best from a British Scandinavian.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Greenland — The first nation to leave the EU, now has higher standard of living than Britain, France or Germany

March 2015: Iceland, who were near to joining the EU pulled out and decided that the monster was not for them.

Iceland still has full control over its immigration, fishing and agriculture policies, free from EU rules.

It remains with Norway, Switzerland and Greenland out of the EU's demands and bullying.

Greenland has a total population less than half that of Colchester; less than 1% of Britain's.

How therefore is Greenland a relevant example of how Britain will fair after leaving the EU?

Yeah, also she skimmed over the fact that Greenland belongs to the sovereign state of Denmark, therefore it is technically in the EU.

Also due to agriculture on Greenland being very difficult, and the Greenlanders having a largely Danish identity, and therefore really caring about natural resources, their agricultural and fishery policies are actually a lot tighter and regulated far heavier than our own. x

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By *osheaMan over a year ago

manchester

The result is almost certainly going to be we stay in. When you have Cameron, Corbyn and even Obama saying stay in then thats what people will do. What annoys me it the campaigns are just biased. The reality is no one can say with any great certainty what leaving would bring. People generally don't like change and will follow those mentioned. The out campaign isn't helped by having Boris the buffoon heading the campaign.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"lets just go for it and see what happens

truth is no one really knows the outcome

..why are people so frighted of change !"

Because the fortune and prosperity of a nation and it's population can very easily be affected, positively or negatively by a decision such as this. And in a nation where the EU invests a lot of money in deprived or lower income areas than our own parliament does, it's best not to treat this decision lightly. I like change, but I'm not a risk taker and so have to know the calculated risks of this.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The result is almost certainly going to be we stay in. When you have Cameron, Corbyn and even Obama saying stay in then thats what people will do. What annoys me it the campaigns are just biased. The reality is no one can say with any great certainty what leaving would bring. People generally don't like change and will follow those mentioned. The out campaign isn't helped by having Boris the buffoon heading the campaign. "

I still hold the leave campaign could win. On it's side there could be a lot of voters who have for years wanted to vote out, and so will regardless. Most of the people I know who are thinking of voting in are not sure yet, they are weighing up the pros and cons.

You mentioned bias, and I'll give you that. But most of the debates being held for IN or OUT are being hosted in the South or highr income areas, where people are far more likely to vote out - according to general trends.

The OUT campaign for me seems to be a lot of hot air. Until Farage can turn round and present a signed declaration form of the UK's biggest an most frequent trade partners, saying by which date they think they can re-negotiate a trade deal, then I just don't feel like I can trust them on it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If we leave we will have a better chance at regaining our industries such as car manufacture and train manufacture, we may even be able to reopen our mines

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Germany tried to take Europe twice with war and failed, now their doing it with political enforcement

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By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

Is that the car industry that exports nearly 60% of its production to the EU and is successfully growing year on year? Get your facts right. We also won't re-open the mines as everyone see's them as polluting and downright dangerous.

Any more insights?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If we leave we will have a better chance at regaining our industries such as car manufacture and train manufacture, we may even be able to reopen our mines"

Why exactly do we want to re-open mines? Unless it's for metal ore count me out. I live near an old coal mining town and fuck knows I don't want a any coal mines re-opening. Air pollution, strain on the NHS, risky work conditions, oh and moving the UK away from the Paris Climate agreement so we'd be finned.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is that the car industry that exports nearly 60% of its production to the EU and is successfully growing year on year? Get your facts right. We also won't re-open the mines as everyone see's them as polluting and downright dangerous.

Any more insights?"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The decision will already have been made what we say makes no difference. I live in County Durham we voted to keep our local council services and we still ended up as one big council because that's what they wanted

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The decision will already have been made what we say makes no difference. I live in County Durham we voted to keep our local council services and we still ended up as one big council because that's what they wanted "

I read about that actually as I have a friend who lives up that way, and the generally understand was that it was Westminster decisions that did that. Unless you have the article and sources proving that the EU made the decision, then I am afraid it's just hot air.

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By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

"lets just go for it and see what happens

truth is no one really knows the outcome

..why are people so frighted of change !"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 17/05/16 12:29:23]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Will we be better off out? Probably. Will we be worse off than we are now by staying in? Definitely.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"lets just go for it and see what happens

truth is no one really knows the outcome

..why are people so frighted of change !

I hope that was sarcastic. Seriously, do you have grand kids?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm not saying it was the Eu but our government they had already decided what was going to happen so why ask for our vote? In my opinion this thing with the eu will have already been decided

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well that's convinced me.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Countdown for The Usual Suspects to appear on this thread....

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By *elson61Man over a year ago

WELWYN GARDEN CITY

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. ."

No change there then. What influence and power do we have at the moment within the EU?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If it means we no longer have to enter Eurovision, I'm all for it

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. .

No change there then. What influence and power do we have at the moment within the EU?"

Ah fair bit tbh, I was listening to other nations MEP's and those who like the EU the most are those which work with the EU and get stuck in to say this will work better if you do this. Rather than the majority of ours who oppose and shit stir way too much. I'm not saying the EU is perfect, but the general feeling amongst my friends across Europe is that the UK is reluctant to help the EU progress the way regular europeans want it to, which is the same way most British people want it to work.

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By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

"If it means we no longer have to enter Eurovision, I'm all for it"

ah yes, Australia, Russia, Israel, etc snuck into the EU whilst I wasn't looking....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm not saying it was the Eu but our government they had already decided what was going to happen so why ask for our vote? In my opinion this thing with the eu will have already been decided "

I don't think so, the Tories hold the majority and they are split 50/50. They will tear their party apart if the vote says one think and those at the top do another.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. .

No change there then. What influence and power do we have at the moment within the EU?

That would be because most non-British Europeans want further political union. I doubt most Britains feel the same way.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"lets just go for it and see what happens

truth is no one really knows the outcome

..why are people so frighted of change !

I hope that was sarcastic. Seriously, do you have grand kids?"

I take it you are happy with the EU's plans for the future then? Can you tell us then which of those plans will mean a better future for our grand kids?

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By *verysmileMan over a year ago

Canterbury

Since we came third from bottom on Saturday, yet another failure, I think we should think very carefully about further contributions to this egofest for Europhiles.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. .

No change there then. What influence and power do we have at the moment within the EU?

That would be because most non-British Europeans want further political union. I doubt most Britains feel the same way."

except maybe the 50% of Italians who according to a latest poll want out of the EU. And I'm pretty sure its getting cose to that figure in most countries

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By *uck-boy-pompeyMan over a year ago

portsmouth

Since we have been in EU this is just one of many I've read and seen on to about bloke came over from Romania working here 6 months in he rap a women and got sent to prison while in prison he spoke to he's embassy and got sent home in witch he was released from prison after 4 weeks then two weeks later was back in the uk and our border staff tried to stop this happening but because we are part of the EU we had to let him back in Now why on gods earth would we let someone that would rap a someone back in we never would have if we wasn't part of EU I for one will be voting out of EU not just base on this but there's lots of reason why we are better off with out and by looks of things turkey is become part of the EU and me being a Leeds football fan I hate them the are vile people no respect for others and they believe women should be indoors cooking and cleaning all day witch in our country would send us back to stone ages please don't just go with what your being told by Cameron he's a right W****R do research every vote really does count if you don't vote you can never change anything or ever moan about what's happening Don't For Get You Have To Register To Vote you can't just turn up think of our future and our family's future we can't help others if there's nothing here to help them with!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"lets just go for it and see what happens

truth is no one really knows the outcome

..why are people so frighted of change !

I hope that was sarcastic. Seriously, do you have grand kids?

I take it you are happy with the EU's plans for the future then? Can you tell us then which of those plans will mean a better future for our grand kids?"

No I am not exactly happy with the EU's current progress. What I am saying is this, the prior post to which I responded was very flippant and dismissive. This vote is not the decision to book a sodding vacation or go on a day trip. If something goes wrong it's not exactly, oh well, lesson learnt, we wont go there/do that again. This vote will most likely be the last one for a while, it will impact society, not just the economy for several years down the line, and it wont be a perfectly reversible process.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Countdown for The Usual Suspects to appear on this thread....

Didn't take long for some to appear

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"lets just go for it and see what happens

truth is no one really knows the outcome

..why are people so frighted of change !

I hope that was sarcastic. Seriously, do you have grand kids?

I take it you are happy with the EU's plans for the future then? Can you tell us then which of those plans will mean a better future for our grand kids?

exactly thats why we have to vote out

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Countdown for The Usual Suspects to appear on this thread....

Didn't take long for some to appear

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. .

No change there then. What influence and power do we have at the moment within the EU?

That would be because most non-British Europeans want further political union. I doubt most Britains feel the same way.

except maybe the 50% of Italians who according to a latest poll want out of the EU. And I'm pretty sure its getting cose to that figure in most countries"

Agreed, although if you listen to the interviews done by most european broadcasters it is because of how the european union is not transparent with it's business dealings. As one Italian friend of mine said to me a week or so ago, people either want the EU to reform, or to collapse and something better but similar to come out of it. Not many europeans want a europe of nation states in the way we had 100 years ago. However, they want general european identity and unity in some form.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"lets just go for it and see what happens

truth is no one really knows the outcome

..why are people so frighted of change !

I hope that was sarcastic. Seriously, do you have grand kids?

I take it you are happy with the EU's plans for the future then? Can you tell us then which of those plans will mean a better future for our grand kids?

exactly thats why we have to vote out"

Why exactly? Simply because this might be the last chance we have for a while? Or because we should gamble everything on a change for the better.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. .

No change there then. What influence and power do we have at the moment within the EU?

That would be because most non-British Europeans want further political union. I doubt most Britains feel the same way.

except maybe the 50% of Italians who according to a latest poll want out of the EU. And I'm pretty sure its getting cose to that figure in most countries

yes but that's not an option is it?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Since we have been in EU this is just one of many I've read and seen on to about bloke came over from Romania working here 6 months in he rap a women and got sent to prison while in prison he spoke to he's embassy and got sent home in witch he was released from prison after 4 weeks then two weeks later was back in the uk and our border staff tried to stop this happening but because we are part of the EU we had to let him back in Now why on gods earth would we let someone that would rap a someone back in we never would have if we wasn't part of EU I for one will be voting out of EU not just base on this but there's lots of reason why we are better off with out and by looks of things turkey is become part of the EU and me being a Leeds football fan I hate them the are vile people no respect for others and they believe women should be indoors cooking and cleaning all day witch in our country would send us back to stone ages please don't just go with what your being told by Cameron he's a right W****R do research every vote really does count if you don't vote you can never change anything or ever moan about what's happening Don't For Get You Have To Register To Vote you can't just turn up think of our future and our family's future we can't help others if there's nothing here to help them with!!!"

Breathe...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"lets just go for it and see what happens

truth is no one really knows the outcome

..why are people so frighted of change !

I hope that was sarcastic. Seriously, do you have grand kids?

I take it you are happy with the EU's plans for the future then? Can you tell us then which of those plans will mean a better future for our grand kids?

exactly thats why we have to vote out

Why exactly? Simply because this might be the last chance we have for a while? Or because we should gamble everything on a change for the better."

do you think things will get better if we stay in though? Or even stay as they are? Why do you think the EU wants to keep expanding to include poorer and poorer countries?

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple over a year ago

Andover

"Greenland — The first nation to leave the EU, now has higher standard of living than Britain, France or Germany

March 2015: Iceland, who were near to joining the EU pulled out and decided that the monster was not for them.

Iceland still has full control over its immigration, fishing and agriculture policies, free from EU rules.

It remains with Norway, Switzerland and Greenland out of the EU's demands and bullying."

And all it more per head into the EU than we do currently and all have a higher percentage of immigrants than we do currently.

There is no "free ride" in the EU, if you wanna play, you gotta pay.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. .

No change there then. What influence and power do we have at the moment within the EU?

That would be because most non-British Europeans want further political union. I doubt most Britains feel the same way.

except maybe the 50% of Italians who according to a latest poll want out of the EU. And I'm pretty sure its getting cose to that figure in most countries

yes but that's not an option is it? "

My friend works for a political group in a metropolitan area of Rome, so basically what he relayed to me was the opinions of a a couple of hundred Italians and Europeans living there. Sure, it is still their opinions, but it is fairly evidence backed and statistic backed opinion.

All I am saying is for that group 'sovereignty' was not as much as an issue, so much as wanting an EU which worked for them, not vice versa.

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple over a year ago

Andover

"If we leave we will have a better chance at regaining our industries such as car manufacture and train manufacture, we may even be able to reopen our mines"

How??? Pretty much all of our car plants are foreign. They are here cos it's easy for them so when they have to start paying tariffs to move cars form here to the EU it won't be long before they up sticks.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As far as I'm concerned the decision has probably already been made !

A email I recieve day work told us that as government employees we had to support the government?

I don't really care ! I just wish that instead of doing as we are told by the EU we do as most countries do and wait to see if the laws that they pass work before taking every single one onboard and lead the way too change ?

This means we take the costs ?

We should just pick the ones we are happy with ? And work !!

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple over a year ago

Andover

"Will we be better off out? Probably. Will we be worse off than we are now by staying in? Definitely. "

And your reasoning is?????

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By *uck-boy-pompeyMan over a year ago

portsmouth

Lol I'm breathing just wouldn't go down well if turkey joined you should know you still live in Leeds

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Can someone explain this to me as an outsider.

One of the reasons for leaving is to get control of immigration so you won't have foreigners entering without visas.

But the plan if you exit is not to have border controls between north and south in Ireland.

So Johnny foreigner flies from Romania to dublin for ten euro with Ryanair gets an air coach to Belfast for 5 euro and steps on a ferry to land in Scotland.

So where's the border control now?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"lets just go for it and see what happens

truth is no one really knows the outcome

..why are people so frighted of change !

I hope that was sarcastic. Seriously, do you have grand kids?

I take it you are happy with the EU's plans for the future then? Can you tell us then which of those plans will mean a better future for our grand kids?

exactly thats why we have to vote out

Why exactly? Simply because this might be the last chance we have for a while? Or because we should gamble everything on a change for the better.

do you think things will get better if we stay in though? Or even stay as they are? Why do you think the EU wants to keep expanding to include poorer and poorer countries?"

I don't know what the future holds for the EU, but the outcomes are more certain and predictable. I think the EU has to change to be honest, the Dutch had their vote on the Ukraine agreement a while back. The desire for a EU referendum in Sweden and Denmark is growing, as in the Netherlands, then there is Brexit very possible.

In short I think they have to listen to the likes of Yanis Varoufakis and reform, else the EU could very well collapse, honestly I think the next year or two will be crucial. A good sign is that once again the EU commission has turned away a TTIP deal, but lets face it, we leave and the Tories will push that through.

And yes, i agree, it is an issue, the EU needs to stop expanding and consolidate the mess it has. That said, pan-European votes pre-vented Ukraine from joining, so there is hope.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can someone explain this to me as an outsider.

One of the reasons for leaving is to get control of immigration so you won't have foreigners entering without visas.

But the plan if you exit is not to have border controls between north and south in Ireland.

So Johnny foreigner flies from Romania to dublin for ten euro with Ryanair gets an air coach to Belfast for 5 euro and steps on a ferry to land in Scotland.

So where's the border control now? "

At the airport perhaps?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can someone explain this to me as an outsider.

One of the reasons for leaving is to get control of immigration so you won't have foreigners entering without visas.

But the plan if you exit is not to have border controls between north and south in Ireland.

So Johnny foreigner flies from Romania to dublin for ten euro with Ryanair gets an air coach to Belfast for 5 euro and steps on a ferry to land in Scotland.

So where's the border control now? "

Yeah you basically outlined something UKip do not like to discuss. But you are right, in principle we'd still have a land border. Inevitably there would be less EU migration to us, but there would still be a fair bit once people and businesses become aware of the route in.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can someone explain this to me as an outsider.

One of the reasons for leaving is to get control of immigration so you won't have foreigners entering without visas.

But the plan if you exit is not to have border controls between north and south in Ireland.

So Johnny foreigner flies from Romania to dublin for ten euro with Ryanair gets an air coach to Belfast for 5 euro and steps on a ferry to land in Scotland.

So where's the border control now?

At the airport perhaps?"

There would be security but Dublin is in the EU so by rights a migrant worker can just hop on a pop over.

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By *horehouseCouple over a year ago

dissatisfied

"Will we be better off out? Probably. Will we be worse off than we are now by staying in? Definitely. "
oh that's like the Heineken advert ..if Heineken did the EU we would be better if in probably .lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There is more support on staying in than out. The brexit camp fails to come up with points as they even want to stop bbc to talk about staying in lol.

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By *orders-cplCouple over a year ago

middx cpl

I want out I want free flow of people to stop and the only way is to get out we are a strong people we will survive and prosper without Europe at our best when our backs are to the wall we re- built this country after two world wars that had left us pennyless

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is more support on staying in than out. The brexit camp fails to come up with points as they even want to stop bbc to talk about staying in lol."

The Brexit camp are really good at playing with popularism, but if they can't come up with evidence and show their working, all of their rhetoric is lost without talk of solid economics and benefits to society

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I want out I want free flow of people to stop and the only way is to get out we are a strong people we will survive and prosper without Europe at our best when our backs are to the wall we re- built this country after two world wars that had left us pennyless"

We re-built it with a whole lot of austerity and we had to bring male migrants from the commonwealth to bulk up the male population loss we suffered. Just remember that.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can someone explain this to me as an outsider.

One of the reasons for leaving is to get control of immigration so you won't have foreigners entering without visas.

But the plan if you exit is not to have border controls between north and south in Ireland.

So Johnny foreigner flies from Romania to dublin for ten euro with Ryanair gets an air coach to Belfast for 5 euro and steps on a ferry to land in Scotland.

So where's the border control now?

At the airport perhaps?

There would be security but Dublin is in the EU so by rights a migrant worker can just hop on a pop over."

Security is about knowing who is entering the country. I am sure a suitable arrangement could be entered into.

If not, then we would have to implement security at ferry ports.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can someone explain this to me as an outsider.

One of the reasons for leaving is to get control of immigration so you won't have foreigners entering without visas.

But the plan if you exit is not to have border controls between north and south in Ireland.

So Johnny foreigner flies from Romania to dublin for ten euro with Ryanair gets an air coach to Belfast for 5 euro and steps on a ferry to land in Scotland.

So where's the border control now?

At the airport perhaps?

There would be security but Dublin is in the EU so by rights a migrant worker can just hop on a pop over.

Security is about knowing who is entering the country. I am sure a suitable arrangement could be entered into.

If not, then we would have to implement security at ferry ports. "

So you will have internal borders between northern Ireland and Scotland? Sure you have thought this through?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can someone explain this to me as an outsider.

One of the reasons for leaving is to get control of immigration so you won't have foreigners entering without visas.

But the plan if you exit is not to have border controls between north and south in Ireland.

So Johnny foreigner flies from Romania to dublin for ten euro with Ryanair gets an air coach to Belfast for 5 euro and steps on a ferry to land in Scotland.

So where's the border control now?

At the airport perhaps?

There would be security but Dublin is in the EU so by rights a migrant worker can just hop on a pop over.

Security is about knowing who is entering the country. I am sure a suitable arrangement could be entered into.

If not, then we would have to implement security at ferry ports.

So you will have internal borders between northern Ireland and Scotland? Sure you have thought this through? "

An internal border would be inconvenient but I am afraid security requires inconvenience.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is more support on staying in than out. The brexit camp fails to come up with points as they even want to stop bbc to talk about staying in lol.

Two words to describe crap economics and a disaster for society - the Euro.

Whose society is the EU benefitting exactly?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can someone explain this to me as an outsider.

One of the reasons for leaving is to get control of immigration so you won't have foreigners entering without visas.

But the plan if you exit is not to have border controls between north and south in Ireland.

So Johnny foreigner flies from Romania to dublin for ten euro with Ryanair gets an air coach to Belfast for 5 euro and steps on a ferry to land in Scotland.

So where's the border control now?

At the airport perhaps?

There would be security but Dublin is in the EU so by rights a migrant worker can just hop on a pop over.

Security is about knowing who is entering the country. I am sure a suitable arrangement could be entered into.

If not, then we would have to implement security at ferry ports.

So you will have internal borders between northern Ireland and Scotland? Sure you have thought this through?

An internal border would be inconvenient but I am afraid security requires inconvenience."

Wouldn't it be better to be straight up and say that you are proposing internal borders?

Because all I've heard is that some agreement will be reached with the EU.

Why would the EU agree to special rules because Britain can't work out how to police it's own borders?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can someone explain this to me as an outsider.

One of the reasons for leaving is to get control of immigration so you won't have foreigners entering without visas.

But the plan if you exit is not to have border controls between north and south in Ireland.

So Johnny foreigner flies from Romania to dublin for ten euro with Ryanair gets an air coach to Belfast for 5 euro and steps on a ferry to land in Scotland.

So where's the border control now?

At the airport perhaps?

There would be security but Dublin is in the EU so by rights a migrant worker can just hop on a pop over.

Security is about knowing who is entering the country. I am sure a suitable arrangement could be entered into.

If not, then we would have to implement security at ferry ports.

So you will have internal borders between northern Ireland and Scotland? Sure you have thought this through?

An internal border would be inconvenient but I am afraid security requires inconvenience.

Wouldn't it be better to be straight up and say that you are proposing internal borders?

Because all I've heard is that some agreement will be reached with the EU.

Why would the EU agree to special rules because Britain can't work out how to police it's own borders? "

The situation is as explained. Security is, of course, just one issue in the EU debate.

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple over a year ago

canterbury

no one knows but lets get one thing straight,the reason the whole of the eu don't want us to leave is.....if the brits decide to leave within 3 years the whole eu thing will faulter and break up....ps have Greece paid our money back yet...all gone quite

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"If we leave we will have a better chance at regaining our industries such as car manufacture and train manufacture, we may even be able to reopen our mines"

Nice try but the wrong answer

Hitachi's train factory in the north east which is building the high speed train for the uk was actually built in cooperation with eu money.... And Nissan in Sunderland, Vauxhall at Ellesmere Port, and Honda in Swindon have all said they may have to downsize factories since most of their cars are exported to the eu

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So far the only benefit I can see of us leaving is stopping the whinging and dissemination of erroneous info.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"They used to be called London Sprouts

im sorry i know i'm easily amused but i'll be giggling to myself for the rest if the day over that

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I can understand - to some extent - why Britain has an uncomfortable relationship with the EU. We have never fully bought into the project and appear to have a "What do we get out of it?" attitude that is contrary to the way most people in continental Europe feel about it. There is also a firm residual Empire feeling that somehow we are "better" or "greater" than our European friends. Although I am heartily for closer union, I recognise that it is a distant dream due to those attitudes and accept that we will continue to have a long-arm relationship but one that that still remains beneficial in so many ways

Why people would wish for the whole EU to breakdown even if we leave? - that is a total mystery to me. Going back to what we had before is just unthinkable.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If we leave we will have a better chance at regaining our industries such as car manufacture and train manufacture, we may even be able to reopen our mines

Nice try but the wrong answer

Hitachi's train factory in the north east which is building the high speed train for the uk was actually built in cooperation with eu money.."

You know, for every stay argument, there is a counter leave argument.

If we were out, we could decide how to spend our money. Currently, we would not be able to invest in a train factory.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If we leave we will have a better chance at regaining our industries such as car manufacture and train manufacture, we may even be able to reopen our mines

Nice try but the wrong answer

does that mean that German car makers will have to downsize too? As 20% of their exports are to the UK?

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By *umourCouple over a year ago

Rushden

I can't believe that people are still on about how good it was after fighting two world wars!!

We are a different nation and the world is a vastly different place and we haven't just won a war!! Anyone who thinks that the British "Stiff Upper Lip" will suffice on exit from the EU is plain silly!

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Can someone explain this to me as an outsider.

One of the reasons for leaving is to get control of immigration so you won't have foreigners entering without visas.

But the plan if you exit is not to have border controls between north and south in Ireland.

So Johnny foreigner flies from Romania to dublin for ten euro with Ryanair gets an air coach to Belfast for 5 euro and steps on a ferry to land in Scotland.

So where's the border control now? "

Ireland actually isn't part of schengen so for an eu resident they would need the same id as in a passport as they would to enter the uk

The U.K. And Ireland have a separate treaty of Amsterdam agreement which covers free travel between them

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Even if the PM wins new reforms, as long as we are in the EU we will be at the mercy of those in Brussels.

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. ."

Actually you may be wrong!!!!!

The UK leaving the EU may be the start of a huge wedge where other countries follow, one by one until the EU is no longer

never say never, many countries may be awaiting the outcome to follow suit

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If we do Brexit, I am looking forward to the never ending tea and cake parties with Union Flags flying, on the white cliffs of Dover

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By *donielMan over a year ago

Liverpool

Nobody can honestly say whether Brexit will be for the betterment or detriment of the UK should it happen. Both sides scaremonger and threaten dire consequences.

What we know for certain is that should we stay in the EU there will be ever closer integration over time, this is what the majority of the EU and our political leaders seem to wish/accept.

If Brexit is chosen nobody can know what the long term result will be. Short term Britain may stumble as the EU may seek to force UK back by imposing harsh trade terms, US may be hardnosed over trade deals. Long term EU exporters will not want to be hit with counter trade tariffs on their bigger exports to the UK ( French/ German/ Italian car manufacturing to name one vulnerable industry, let alone tourism.

The US will soon plonk their big size 10's in another foreign conflict, (especially if Trump is elected), they will turn to the EU and UK for support. Yet again the EU will dither and do bugger all. The UK will get all kinds of US trade deals if we back them again(at the cost of British troops). Such is politics.

Yes I do believe that Brexit will lead to other countries calling it a day and the folding of the EU. It is no longer the trading block it started as, it is trying to evolve into a political super state whether that be good or bad.

Pesrsonally I am not European, I am English/British. I have no problem with people of any race creed or religion coming here if they have the skills we require for our society to flourish, but not open borders.

I at the end of the day I would rather take my chances on Brexit. Short term pain for long term gain is gamble I would take

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By *horehouseCouple over a year ago

dissatisfied

"If we do Brexit, I am looking forward to the never ending tea and cake parties with Union Flags flying, on the white cliffs of Dover

"
with Vera Lynn singing ..then at the end of the day the nation can return to the workhouse ..happy days for the peasants lol

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

"Even if the PM wins new reforms, as long as we are in the EU we will be at the mercy of those in Brussels.

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. .

Actually you may be wrong!!!!!

The UK leaving the EU may be the start of a huge wedge where other countries follow, one by one until the EU is no longer

never say never, many countries may be awaiting the outcome to follow suit"

Then again, you could just be repeating the same old line that has damaged Britain's interested so often in our past "it'll never work without us, so if we don't play ball it will all fall apart anyway and we don't have to worry about it"

Until it doesn't just fall apart. And then we realise that it really isn't in our interests to be outside and we have shot ourselves in the foot (again) and pissed off some of our closest allies. Again.

Just like we did in 1946 and again in 1958 and like so many wanted us to do again in 1976. And you do now.

Still, what has history to teach us, eh?.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Even if the PM wins new reforms, as long as we are in the EU we will be at the mercy of those in Brussels.

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. .

Actually you may be wrong!!!!!

The UK leaving the EU may be the start of a huge wedge where other countries follow, one by one until the EU is no longer

never say never, many countries may be awaiting the outcome to follow suit"

Michael Gove called it the democratic liberation of Europe.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Even if the PM wins new reforms, as long as we are in the EU we will be at the mercy of those in Brussels.

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. .

Actually you may be wrong!!!!!

The UK leaving the EU may be the start of a huge wedge where other countries follow, one by one until the EU is no longer

never say never, many countries may be awaiting the outcome to follow suit

Just like we did in 1946 and again in 1958 and like so many wanted us to do again in 1976. And you do now.

Still, what has history to teach us, eh?."

Well seeing as France black balled us to stop us joining in the first place, why would they be bothered about us leaving? Seems they never wanted Britain to join in the first place.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Even if the PM wins new reforms, as long as we are in the EU we will be at the mercy of those in Brussels.

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. .

Actually you may be wrong!!!!!

The UK leaving the EU may be the start of a huge wedge where other countries follow, one by one until the EU is no longer

never say never, many countries may be awaiting the outcome to follow suit

Michael Gove called it the democratic liberation of Europe.

Hooray! He's here!

Where have you been, I was beginning to get worried?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Voting out.....Because i believe we can prosper without holding the corrupt EU hand all our life.

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

"Nobody can honestly say whether European Coal & Steel Community will be for the betterment or detriment of the UK should it happen. Both sides scaremonger and threaten dire consequences.

What we know for certain is that should we join the Coal & Steel Community there will be ever closer integration over time, this is what the majority of European and our political leaders (Churchill) seem to wish/accept.

If we remain out nobody can know what the long term result will be. Short term Britain may stumble as....European exporters will not want to be hit with counter trade tariffs on their bigger exports to the UK.

The UK will get all kinds of US trade deals if we back them again(at the cost of British troops).

Yes I do believe that us staying out of the Coal & Steel Community will lead to other countries calling it a day and the folding of the idea. It won't stay as the trading block it started as, it will evolve into a political super state whether that be good or bad.

Pesrsonally we are not European, we are English/British.

We at the end of the day would rather take our chances on remaining out of the Coal & Steel Community. Short term pain for long term gain is gamble I would take"

Just as Britain said in 1946.

And then by 1963 realised how much it had fucked up and begged to be let in.

"Please. Pretty please. Terribly sorry....."

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Even if the PM wins new reforms, as long as we are in the EU we will be at the mercy of those in Brussels.

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. .

Actually you may be wrong!!!!!

The UK leaving the EU may be the start of a huge wedge where other countries follow, one by one until the EU is no longer

never say never, many countries may be awaiting the outcome to follow suit

Michael Gove called it the democratic liberation of Europe.

Hooray! He's here!

Where have you been, I was beginning to get worried?"

I do have a life outside of Fab.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Even if the PM wins new reforms, as long as we are in the EU we will be at the mercy of those in Brussels.

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. .

Actually you may be wrong!!!!!

The UK leaving the EU may be the start of a huge wedge where other countries follow, one by one until the EU is no longer

never say never, many countries may be awaiting the outcome to follow suit

Michael Gove called it the democratic liberation of Europe.

Hooray! He's here!

Where have you been, I was beginning to get worried?

I do have a life outside of Fab.

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

"Even if the PM wins new reforms, as long as we are in the EU we will be at the mercy of those in Brussels.

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. .

Actually you may be wrong!!!!!

The UK leaving the EU may be the start of a huge wedge where other countries follow, one by one until the EU is no longer

never say never, many countries may be awaiting the outcome to follow suit

Just like we did in 1946 and again in 1958 and like so many wanted us to do again in 1976. And you do now.

Still, what has history to teach us, eh?.

Well seeing as France black balled us to stop us joining in the first place, why would they be bothered about us leaving? Seems they never wanted Britain to join in the first place. "

Precisely. They did. And you might want to find out why. Actually, you wouldn't want to bother, would you.

After we had completely snubbed their request to join the Coal & Steel community (see other post) because we thought it couldn't work without us....but it did. And then we realsied our terrible mistake and begged to be let in.

Terrible people those French. They never look on things from just OUR perspective.....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Even if the PM wins new reforms, as long as we are in the EU we will be at the mercy of those in Brussels.

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. .

Actually you may be wrong!!!!!

The UK leaving the EU may be the start of a huge wedge where other countries follow, one by one until the EU is no longer

never say never, many countries may be awaiting the outcome to follow suit

Just like we did in 1946 and again in 1958 and like so many wanted us to do again in 1976. And you do now.

Still, what has history to teach us, eh?."

regardless of the decision stay or leave, I will get by fine, I work hard and have earned my living in UK and outside UK, if you can do your job, corporations will provide work visa's, entry & accommodation no matter where in the world

still hope we vote to leave though

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

What exactly is the problem with ever closer union and deeper integration?

The Brexit supporters seem to fear closer ties and co-operation with our European allies and I just don't get why?

Human evolution dictates that this is going to happen anyway because it makes sense for our genetics and it makes human life easier. We will naturally and irrevocably move towards "an easier life."

If this were not the case, there would not be country's anywhere in thwe world and village would still be battling its neighbouring village for control of land and water. Cloer ties and strong unions encourage co-operation and enable safety, security, freedom of movement and a better quality of life.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Even if the PM wins new reforms, as long as we are in the EU we will be at the mercy of those in Brussels.

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. .

Actually you may be wrong!!!!!

The UK leaving the EU may be the start of a huge wedge where other countries follow, one by one until the EU is no longer

never say never, many countries may be awaiting the outcome to follow suit

Just like we did in 1946 and again in 1958 and like so many wanted us to do again in 1976. And you do now.

Still, what has history to teach us, eh?.

Well seeing as France black balled us to stop us joining in the first place, why would they be bothered about us leaving? Seems they never wanted Britain to join in the first place. "
.

That's an interesting bit historically!.

Roughly speaking they made a pact with Germany, they had an army, nuclear weapons,a seat on the UN permanent council, a veto and a dying empire they couldn't afford(sound familiar).

Germany said well pay for you to keep your "standing" , you'll back us in everything we decide, of course the agreement couldn't afford competition!... Such is politics the reality being the entire NATO/EU philosophy is/was American backed agaist the old Soviet block, interestingly enough when the Soviet block collapsed practically all the land they ceded was gobbled up by the EU leaving one key but large piece of the chessboard... The Ukraine

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If we leave we will have a better chance at regaining our industries such as car manufacture and train manufacture, we may even be able to reopen our mines"

good to see the siege economy model get an airing. I thought it died with Tony Benn. there is no way we will get our train manufacturers back unless you ban all rail companies from buying anything but British. and you might like to look up the numbers of cars manufactured here compared to the days of British Leyland et Al.

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

"Even if the PM wins new reforms, as long as we are in the EU we will be at the mercy of those in Brussels.

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. .

Actually you may be wrong!!!!!

The UK leaving the EU may be the start of a huge wedge where other countries follow, one by one until the EU is no longer

never say never, many countries may be awaiting the outcome to follow suit

Just like we did in 1946 and again in 1958 and like so many wanted us to do again in 1976. And you do now.

Still, what has history to teach us, eh?.

Well seeing as France black balled us to stop us joining in the first place, why would they be bothered about us leaving? Seems they never wanted Britain to join in the first place. .

That's an interesting bit historically!.

Roughly speaking they made a pact with Germany, they had an army, nuclear weapons,a seat on the UN permanent council, a veto and a dying empire they couldn't afford(sound familiar).

When you are good, you are good. But.....

This is the Germany devastated by WWII, bankrupt and being funded by the Marshall Plan that was paying to 'keep France's standing'?

Lets just say you post was VERY 'roughly speaking'

Nice spin though!

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Even if the PM wins new reforms, as long as we are in the EU we will be at the mercy of those in Brussels.

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. .

Actually you may be wrong!!!!!

The UK leaving the EU may be the start of a huge wedge where other countries follow, one by one until the EU is no longer

never say never, many countries may be awaiting the outcome to follow suit

Just like we did in 1946 and again in 1958 and like so many wanted us to do again in 1976. And you do now.

Still, what has history to teach us, eh?.

Well seeing as France black balled us to stop us joining in the first place, why would they be bothered about us leaving? Seems they never wanted Britain to join in the first place.

Precisely. They did. And you might want to find out why. Actually, you wouldn't want to bother, would you.

Terrible people those French. They never look on things from just OUR perspective.....

I do know why the french black balled us and stopped us joining. The French leadership at the time thought that Britain was not suited to joining a political union and that we would always want to go our own way. How right they were. We've said no to the Euro (which was the right choice for us) and we've said no to joining Shengen. The British attitude seems to be the less Europe the better, we are not suited to the EU and the French were correct. It Would be better for us to leave so we can go our own way in the world and let the rest of Europe get on with it if a federal United States of Europe is what they want.

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple over a year ago

Andover

does that mean that German car makers will have to downsize too? As 20% of their exports are to the UK?"

No. We will still want them. But we will probably have to pay more for them as there will be no free trade agreement.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Even if the PM wins new reforms, as long as we are in the EU we will be at the mercy of those in Brussels.

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. .

Actually you may be wrong!!!!!

The UK leaving the EU may be the start of a huge wedge where other countries follow, one by one until the EU is no longer

never say never, many countries may be awaiting the outcome to follow suit

Just like we did in 1946 and again in 1958 and like so many wanted us to do again in 1976. And you do now.

Still, what has history to teach us, eh?.

still hope we vote to leave though

Here is the thing though, you have done that, and considering your age I would hope you had. The sad fact is though people my age within the UK have not had the opportunity to put their skills to use, and have been stuck in a pay freeze. It's why so many of us desperately look to work and move abroad.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"What exactly is the problem with ever closer union and deeper integration?

The Brexit supporters seem to fear closer ties and co-operation with our European allies and I just don't get why?

Human evolution dictates that this is going to happen anyway because it makes sense for our genetics and it makes human life easier. We will naturally and irrevocably move towards "an easier life."

you couldn't be more wrong though, sounds very nice but that is not human nature

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Even if the PM wins new reforms, as long as we are in the EU we will be at the mercy of those in Brussels.

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. .

Actually you may be wrong!!!!!

The UK leaving the EU may be the start of a huge wedge where other countries follow, one by one until the EU is no longer

never say never, many countries may be awaiting the outcome to follow suit

Just like we did in 1946 and again in 1958 and like so many wanted us to do again in 1976. And you do now.

Still, what has history to teach us, eh?.

Well seeing as France black balled us to stop us joining in the first place, why would they be bothered about us leaving? Seems they never wanted Britain to join in the first place.

Precisely. They did. And you might want to find out why. Actually, you wouldn't want to bother, would you.

Terrible people those French. They never look on things from just OUR perspective.....

A Britain with less Europe...count me out, that most likely means our leaders would look to America for inspiration and I would soon leave for Europe than experience that.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

does that mean that German car makers will have to downsize too? As 20% of their exports are to the UK?

No. We will still want them. But we will probably have to pay more for them as there will be no free trade agreement. "

pmsl

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Even if the PM wins new reforms, as long as we are in the EU we will be at the mercy of those in Brussels.

If we leave the EU, we still have to trade with it and make deals, except we then have far less influence and power.

Leaving the EU doesn't make it magically go away. .

Actually you may be wrong!!!!!

The UK leaving the EU may be the start of a huge wedge where other countries follow, one by one until the EU is no longer

never say never, many countries may be awaiting the outcome to follow suit

Just like we did in 1946 and again in 1958 and like so many wanted us to do again in 1976. And you do now.

Still, what has history to teach us, eh?.

Well seeing as France black balled us to stop us joining in the first place, why would they be bothered about us leaving? Seems they never wanted Britain to join in the first place. .

That's an interesting bit historically!.

Roughly speaking they made a pact with Germany, they had an army, nuclear weapons,a seat on the UN permanent council, a veto and a dying empire they couldn't afford(sound familiar).

When you are good, you are good. But.....

This is the Germany devastated by WWII, bankrupt and being funded by the Marshall Plan that was paying to 'keep France's standing'?

Lets just say you post was VERY 'roughly speaking'

Nice spin though!"
.

Lol I said it was rough!!. Although there was a big difference politically speaking from the EEC to the EU

I hold no grudges against Germany or France, they do what's in their interests just like we do what's in ours, sometimes our interests are mutually beneficial...

Besides I told you ages ago, there's a little bit on an anachronistic streak in me

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"What exactly is the problem with ever closer union and deeper integration?

The Brexit supporters seem to fear closer ties and co-operation with our European allies and I just don't get why?

Human evolution dictates that this is going to happen anyway because it makes sense for our genetics and it makes human life easier. We will naturally and irrevocably move towards "an easier life."

Agreed.

I don't understand why some people who don't have a personal stake at risk are scared of the EU. I have a relative with a small business - he is thinking of voting to leave purely on the basis of the EU results in a lot of paperwork for him. But then again he thinks that for society it might be better to stay.

I don't understand why people are so scared of closer political union...we are British, but under that we are also European. I mean I feel half an half.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

does that mean that German car makers will have to downsize too? As 20% of their exports are to the UK?

No. We will still want them. But we will probably have to pay more for them as there will be no free trade agreement.

pmsl

Why? He makes a valid point. Most trade outside the European Free Trade area costs unless you have a deal with the exporting nation, and even then, often it costs.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I've read this thread and lots of people are saying that if Britain leave then others would follow and the EU fails ....maybe you guys don't realise the EU is one of the world's major trading blocks if that fails and some of countries economies fall we will all fall together including Britain in or out if the EU and euro fails we will all be in another global recession before long

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"What exactly is the problem with ever closer union and deeper integration?

The Brexit supporters seem to fear closer ties and co-operation with our European allies and I just don't get why?

Human evolution dictates that this is going to happen anyway because it makes sense for our genetics and it makes human life easier. We will naturally and irrevocably move towards "an easier life."

you couldn't be more wrong though, sounds very nice but that is not human nature"

Isn't it human nature to look after and cuddle your family? Not to seek to give up your protection and ability to decide to a culture far away and alien?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Even if the PM wins new reforms, as long as we are in the EU we will be at the mercy of those in Brussels."

We are those in Brussels at the moment, if we leave the EU we will be at the mercy of those in Brussels, with nobody to represent our interests.

So we are better off in. we just need a national government who can write UK laws that are not full of holes.

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

Any more insights?"

The UK car industry manufactures about 1.5 Million cars a year, c. 750k of which go to EU countries. UK citizens buy about 2.4 M cars a year.... of which about 1.5M come from EU countries, mainly Germany and France. So the EU car industry, particularly Germany and France, need us more than we need them. That is one reason why the EU will not stop trading with us. If they were to stop trading, sure, we would lose 750 K car sales, but we would gain the requirement to all 1.5 Million extra cars. This equates to an additional 160K to 200K jobs.

If you're going to tell people to get their facts right, you should maybe tell the facts of both sides of the argument.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I've read this thread and lots of people are saying that if Britain leave then others would follow and the EU fails ....maybe you guys don't realise the EU is one of the world's major trading blocks if that fails and some of countries economies fall we will all fall together including Britain in or out if the EU and euro fails we will all be in another global recession before long "
.

Oh the world economy is on the edge already, that's why they don't want any voting brexit, it might just be enough to tip it into chaos

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple over a year ago

Andover

does that mean that German car makers will have to downsize too? As 20% of their exports are to the UK?

No. We will still want them. But we will probably have to pay more for them as there will be no free trade agreement.

pmsl

And your 20%nfigure is nonsense. You think we spent £30billion on German cars lar year?

Yet again, you make wild claims and then avoid any level of accountability for them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There won't be any drastic changes if we leave the EU -

The French own our major energy and water concerns

The Germans own many transport franchises

The Spanish own the major UK airports.

Causing disruption to the UK for leaving the EU will only cause themselves harm.

What it will mean is we should only have to contend with one corrupt government instead of 23.

Whether it will mean an end to a lot of the things we dislike about how our country is run will then depend on the kind of government WE elect for THIS country.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Someone with some geographical sense

It's almost as if people think that us being an island would save us from a shit storm hitting our neighbours, who, currently with us, have a combine trading economy greater than America's.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Any more insights?

If you're going to tell people to get their facts right, you should maybe tell the facts of both sides of the argument. "

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There won't be any drastic changes if we leave the EU -

The French own our major energy and water concerns

The Germans own many transport franchises

The Spanish own the major UK airports.

Causing disruption to the UK for leaving the EU will only cause themselves harm.

What it will mean is we should only have to contend with one corrupt government instead of 23.

Whether it will mean an end to a lot of the things we dislike about how our country is run will then depend on the kind of government WE elect for THIS country.

That's the problem, Britain always has a low voting turn out and we haven't exactly got a government who are making it easy for opposition parties to make a good case.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

does that mean that German car makers will have to downsize too? As 20% of their exports are to the UK?

No. We will still want them. But we will probably have to pay more for them as there will be no free trade agreement.

pmsl

And your 20%nfigure is nonsense. You think we spent £30billion on German cars lar year?

Yet again, you make wild claims and then avoid any level of accountability for them. "

just check the figures again will you and read it properly

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There won't be any drastic changes if we leave the EU -

The French own our major energy and water concerns

The Germans own many transport franchises

The Spanish own the major UK airports.

Causing disruption to the UK for leaving the EU will only cause themselves harm.

What it will mean is we should only have to contend with one corrupt government instead of 23.

Whether it will mean an end to a lot of the things we dislike about how our country is run will then depend on the kind of government WE elect for THIS country.

That's the problem, Britain always has a low voting turn out and we haven't exactly got a government who are making it easy for opposition parties to make a good case."

oh dear, unbelievable

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I cba with this thread already "

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

If you're going to tell people to get their facts right, you should maybe tell the facts of both sides of the argument. "

if you are going tell people to get their facts right..... then i would also tend to get your facts right.....

the problem with your simplistic "they need us more than we need them" statement is actually pure economics...

not all of the people who buy cars from the EU are automatically going to "buy british" instead..... and multinationals are not going to move huge great manufacturing plants for each type of car line they make

what in the real world would happen is that people who wanted to buy types of cars not manufactured in the uk are going to end up costing more because they will end up having a hefty tariff slapped on them......

remember only certain cars are made here....

and that just dealing with inbound cars....

even the leave campaign have said that leaving the EU would also mean leaving the single market......

can i ask what car you own.... just wanted to find out if it is one completely "made in britain........"

so lets talk about outbound cars....

two main things.....

1) again.... they would cost more and therefore be less competitive to sell... that pesky tariffs thing again....

2) big manufacturers tend to be multinational.... so to get round tariffs they relocate to places where it would be cheaper to sell their product... that pesky single market thing again.....

and that without even talking about the hundreds of thousands of people in the supply line chain

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If you're going to tell people to get their facts right, you should maybe tell the facts of both sides of the argument.

if you are going tell people to get their facts right..... then i would also tend to get your facts right.....

the problem with your simplistic "they need us more than we need them" statement is actually pure economics...

remember only certain cars are made here....

and that just dealing with inbound cars....

even the leave campaign have said that leaving the EU would also mean leaving the single market......

can i ask what car you own.... just wanted to find out if it is one completely "made in britain........"

so lets talk about outbound cars....

two main things.....

1) again.... they would cost more and therefore be less competitive to sell... that pesky tariffs thing again....

2) big manufacturers tend to be multinational.... so to get round tariffs they relocate to places where it would be cheaper to sell their product... that pesky single market thing again.....

and that without even talking about the hundreds of thousands of people in the supply line chain"

Fabio, why would they cost more? Why would tariffs apply?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I predict a riot either way!.

Whooohoo, fetch my pitchfork grandma

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If you're going to tell people to get their facts right, you should maybe tell the facts of both sides of the argument.

if you are going tell people to get their facts right..... then i would also tend to get your facts right.....

the problem with your simplistic "they need us more than we need them" statement is actually pure economics...

remember only certain cars are made here....

and that just dealing with inbound cars....

even the leave campaign have said that leaving the EU would also mean leaving the single market......

can i ask what car you own.... just wanted to find out if it is one completely "made in britain........"

so lets talk about outbound cars....

two main things.....

1) again.... they would cost more and therefore be less competitive to sell... that pesky tariffs thing again....

2) big manufacturers tend to be multinational.... so to get round tariffs they relocate to places where it would be cheaper to sell their product... that pesky single market thing again.....

and that without even talking about the hundreds of thousands of people in the supply line chain"

so why are they here now when the price of a car can vary by 20-30% at any time due to exchange rates?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

Thousands of jobs lost if we leave.

And Boris says the Europeans already here can continue to live here if exit is voted for. I can't see the point of voting if you think exit.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If you're going to tell people to get their facts right, you should maybe tell the facts of both sides of the argument.

if you are going tell people to get their facts right..... then i would also tend to get your facts right.....

the problem with your simplistic "they need us more than we need them" statement is actually pure economics...

remember only certain cars are made here....

and that just dealing with inbound cars....

even the leave campaign have said that leaving the EU would also mean leaving the single market......

can i ask what car you own.... just wanted to find out if it is one completely "made in britain........"

so lets talk about outbound cars....

two main things.....

1) again.... they would cost more and therefore be less competitive to sell... that pesky tariffs thing again....

2) big manufacturers tend to be multinational.... so to get round tariffs they relocate to places where it would be cheaper to sell their product... that pesky single market thing again.....

and that without even talking about the hundreds of thousands of people in the supply line chain

so why are they here now when the price of a car can vary by 20-30% at any time due to exchange rates?"
.

Where else are they gonna go!.

Sure you could try the eastern block and they probably will in another few years anyhow but Germany and France aren't exactly going to let Japan get a foot hold in their countries, Scandinavia is expensive, Holland is small and already specialised, Spain was baggsied by Germany, Italy has a state run car company and its fantastically corrupt even by UK standards... So we got Japanese!.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I predict a riot either way!.

Whooohoo, fetch my pitchfork grandma

get yourself over to mainland Europe, there'll be plenty there this summer don't worry

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Thousands of jobs lost if we leave.

And Boris says the Europeans already here can continue to live here if exit is voted for. I can't see the point of voting if you think exit."
.Don't panic...

It's all over in thirty years anyhow! Maybe less

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I predict a riot either way!.

Whooohoo, fetch my pitchfork grandma

get yourself over to mainland Europe, there'll be plenty there this summer don't worry

"
.

I've been saying this for months long before the head of mi6.

There's yesterday's crew (brexiters) there's today's crew that haven't worked out there at ten to midnight (remainers)...

And then there's those that are realists (me) .

You know there's was Jews in Germany in 1938 who just flat out couldn't envisage what was coming despite the increasingly mounting evidence!.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Fabio, why would they cost more? Why would tariffs apply?"

because without an agreement above like norway, iceland and switzerland all mentioned above... there are tarriffs applied to all non eu products (remember those 3 countries all pay for the priviledge of free market access and have to adhere to all eu rules....)

also... say bmw have uk factory that sells produces 220,000 cars...... sells 20,000 m3's in the UK... but exports 200,000 m3's to the continent....

it would make more sense for them to relocate because of where they sell those cars...... the tariff would only be on the 20,000 as opposed to the 200,000

and a car manufacturer is not going to put in 10 different lines for 10 different cars....

and for as much as you would like to say "oh they need us"... i think you'll find there aren't many types of cars where you would find more of them are sold here in the uk alone.... than across the entire EU.....

the luxury end may well stay in the uk, before they can afford the eat the tariffs, they would pass those onto customers abroad....

the uk mass market end.... you just killed

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Or Strasbourg!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If you're going to tell people to get their facts right, you should maybe tell the facts of both sides of the argument.

if you are going tell people to get their facts right..... then i would also tend to get your facts right.....

the problem with your simplistic "they need us more than we need them" statement is actually pure economics...

remember only certain cars are made here....

and that just dealing with inbound cars....

even the leave campaign have said that leaving the EU would also mean leaving the single market......

can i ask what car you own.... just wanted to find out if it is one completely "made in britain........"

so lets talk about outbound cars....

two main things.....

1) again.... they would cost more and therefore be less competitive to sell... that pesky tariffs thing again....

2) big manufacturers tend to be multinational.... so to get round tariffs they relocate to places where it would be cheaper to sell their product... that pesky single market thing again.....

and that without even talking about the hundreds of thousands of people in the supply line chain

Fabio, why would they cost more? Why would tariffs apply?"

because we wouldn't be inside the free trade zone so we wouldn't benefit from free trade and as we would just have told the rest of EU to fuck off they are unlikely to want to do us any favours.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Any more insights?

If you're going to tell people to get their facts right, you should maybe tell the facts of both sides of the argument. "

Germany aint trading enough; I have been in at my Mercedes dealer last 4 days and he has searched whole of UK for a "C" class Sport Auto and cannot locate a single one, I have been told it will be 28th July before the next shipment is here

Come on Germany, get your act together

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Its quite odd that we all for some reason think we as the working classes will be so much better off coming out or staying in . When 90% of the wealth is contoled by 10% of the people , how is our vote going to change anything ? Its wealth that controls ont people .

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Come on Germany, get your act together"

god bless you for giving me a great real life example....

so where there may not be any c class to see in the uk.... i bet mercedes sell more of those cars in the EU than they would in the UK....

so it makes more sense to mass produce those in one place and ship them (with possible tariffs) than it would to basically duplicate the manufacturing process twice and build them in the uk

and they can pass that tariff onto customer because you want the car bad enough........

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

One of my bikes is Japanese manufacturer but made in he USA,

The EU has good trade arrangements with both and the price in the UK is about £11,000

Norway has to negotiate it's own trade deals outside the deal they have with the EU, the price of the same bike there is £24,000.

I don't know if the tariff is with the USA or Japan, but it does help to be negotiating with a large market behind you.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"One of my bikes is Japanese manufacturer but made in he USA,

The EU has good trade arrangements with both and the price in the UK is about £11,000

Norway has to negotiate it's own trade deals outside the deal they have with the EU, the price of the same bike there is £24,000.

I don't know if the tariff is with the USA or Japan, but it does help to be negotiating with a large market behind you."
.

Well they can afford it being the highest wage earners in the world

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"One of my bikes is Japanese manufacturer but made in he USA,

The EU has good trade arrangements with both and the price in the UK is about £11,000

Norway has to negotiate it's own trade deals outside the deal they have with the EU, the price of the same bike there is £24,000.

I don't know if the tariff is with the USA or Japan, but it does help to be negotiating with a large market behind you..

Well they can afford it being the highest wage earners in the world"

Those I know earn about double UK wages for comparable jobs, but everything except housing and land is more than twice as expensive. So they are only rich on holiday.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"One of my bikes is Japanese manufacturer but made in he USA,

The EU has good trade arrangements with both and the price in the UK is about £11,000

Norway has to negotiate it's own trade deals outside the deal they have with the EU, the price of the same bike there is £24,000.

I don't know if the tariff is with the USA or Japan, but it does help to be negotiating with a large market behind you..

Well they can afford it being the highest wage earners in the world

Those I know earn about double UK wages for comparable jobs, but everything except housing and land is more than twice as expensive. So they are only rich on holiday.

"
.

Have you ever been to Oslo, I don't actually like recommending to Brits because it's not fair on Norwegians but... Fuck yeah, they've got a fucking amazing country and a fantastic standard of living.

And Norwegian women they make Swedish women look plain... But wait I forgot Finnish women... Oooo it's so hard!

The choice I mean, you filthy perv

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

shhhh Norway and Norwegian women are a secret.... But I have to say the Fins, they are just nuts!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"shhhh Norway and Norwegian women are a secret.... But I have to say the Fins, they are just nuts!

"
.

I don't think I've ever meet women with nicer skin than Finnish women, it's like blemish free.

You know they use Norwegian leather for the rolls Royce because they have no barbed wire and so it's more perfect.

When I win the lottery I'm getting mine in Finnish women's arse hide

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By *inky-MinxWoman over a year ago

Grantham

I've not read the whole thread but define better off?

Yes we will be better off running our own country.

We will be better off financially because we are a net contributor to the EU.

The EU will still trade with us because it's us that buy their stuff not the other way round. Our stuff goes to the rest of the world not the EU. See the Rotterdam Report for more info.

UKIP will no linger be needed.

All that human rights stuff is already in other treaties we are signed up to.

And so on....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I've not read the whole thread but define better off?

Yes we will be better off running our own country.

We will be better off financially because we are a net contributor to the EU.

The EU will still trade with us because it's us that buy their stuff not the other way round. Our stuff goes to the rest of the world not the EU. See the Rotterdam Report for more info.

UKIP will no linger be needed.

All that human rights stuff is already in other treaties we are signed up to.

And so on...."

Oh hello my mutual tea loving friend

I think what a lot of young people - and middle aged people who will have to work late into life are worried about, is the prospect of leaving only for TTIP to be pushed upon us by the Tories.

Just chiming in there.

On another note I believe I read somewhere that the EU does help protect our rights somehow, it was an academic review so I'll try and dig it up if you want?

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"I've not read the whole thread but define better off?

Yes we will be better off running our own country.

We will be better off financially because we are a net contributor to the EU.

The EU will still trade with us because it's us that buy their stuff not the other way round. Our stuff goes to the rest of the world not the EU. See the Rotterdam Report for more info.

I agree with you on those points.

The economists for Brexit report done by several leading economists in the UK say we will be better off out of the EU.

news.sky.com/story/1686730/uk-better-off-outside-eu-economists-say

Then you have Mark Littlewood Director General of the Institute of Economic Affairs who said on BBC Question Time on Thursday 17th March we would be better off out for a number of reasons which he gave on the programme. Then there was the Economist Ruth Lea saying the same when she was on Question Time on Thursday 7th April. Also former Chancellor of the Exchequers Nigel Lawson and Norman Lamont saying we will be better off out.

An instant saving of billions to be made when we no longer have to pay the EU membership fees when we leave.

In an EU debate last week in Westminster on Monday 9th May Consevative MP Bill Cash quoted these figures directly from the house of commoms Library...With Britain's releationship to the other 27 countries in the EU, Britain has a trade deficit of £67.8 billion pounds annually. When the same is applied to Germany then Germany has a trade surplus of £81.8 billion pounds annually. So a loss for Britain and a gain for Germany, it is working for Germany but it is not working for Britain. In contrast outside of the EU Britain has a trade surplus of £31.1 billion pounds with the rest of the world, for last year and that figure is rising each passing year for us. Its pretty clear that the better future for us is to Leave and open ourselves up more to the wider world beyond the borders of the EU. We live in a globalised world now, the EU is an out of date 20th century idea not fit for purpose in the modern globalised world. It is an analougue union in a now digital age, and it is past its sell by date. The former Governor of the Bank of England Sir Mervyn King has said the Eurozone is doomed to failure. We would be better off out of the EU when it does happen which it inevitably will.

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

If you're going to tell people to get their facts right, you should maybe tell the facts of both sides of the argument.

if you are going tell people to get their facts right..... then i would also tend to get your facts right.....

the problem with your simplistic "they need us more than we need them" statement is actually pure economics...

remember only certain cars are made here....

and that just dealing with inbound cars....

even the leave campaign have said that leaving the EU would also mean leaving the single market......

can i ask what car you own.... just wanted to find out if it is one completely "made in britain........"

so lets talk about outbound cars....

two main things.....

1) again.... they would cost more and therefore be less competitive to sell... that pesky tariffs thing again....

2) big manufacturers tend to be multinational.... so to get round tariffs they relocate to places where it would be cheaper to sell their product... that pesky single market thing again.....

and that without even talking about the hundreds of thousands of people in the supply line chain"

So let me get this right, tariffs will be put on vehicles (exported and imported) which will mean we either pay more for cars, or sell fewer cars abroad. Multinationals are not going to move production facilities to Britain to make cars... and yet big manufacturers tend to be multinational so to get round tariffs they relocate manufacturing to places to avoid tariffs...those damn pesky tariffs, forcing car manufacturers to relocate from the EU to the UK to make tariff free cars!

The UK car industry is worth about £20 Billion to the German car industry. (The SMMT say that about 40% of new car sales are German imports, which equates to c. 900,000 cars a year, and that the average value is about £23K... in comparison, we export a total of 750,000 cars across the whole of the EU, at an average value of £18K).

We own two cars... one from Germany and one from Sunderland. And if I needed a new car, and a German had a huge tariff on it making it unaffordable, guess what, I wouldn't buy it, I would buy one that I could afford... as would the majority of people. What car do you own?

We met a couple from Sweden recently, one Swedish, one American (lived in Sweden for 20 years), who thought that if we exit the EU we would not be able to travel in EU countries again. The scaremongering from the remain side even stretches across the EU!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If you're going to tell people to get their facts right, you should maybe tell the facts of both sides of the argument.

if you are going tell people to get their facts right..... then i would also tend to get your facts right.....

the problem with your simplistic "they need us more than we need them" statement is actually pure economics...

remember only certain cars are made here....

and that just dealing with inbound cars....

even the leave campaign have said that leaving the EU would also mean leaving the single market......

can i ask what car you own.... just wanted to find out if it is one completely "made in britain........"

so lets talk about outbound cars....

two main things.....

1) again.... they would cost more and therefore be less competitive to sell... that pesky tariffs thing again....

2) big manufacturers tend to be multinational.... so to get round tariffs they relocate to places where it would be cheaper to sell their product... that pesky single market thing again.....

and that without even talking about the hundreds of thousands of people in the supply line chain

You don't seem to understand brexit's proposal on tariffs as put forward by their economists. Their economic case is based on no tariffs applied to imports to the uk (that's a fundamentap principle of their libertarian approach) and trading with the whole world on WTO terms. In that scenario the eu will be forced to apply tariffs to imports from the UK - thats what WTO rules on most favoured nation status mean and is a legal requirement under international law.

What you end up with is imports from the eu (and rest of the world) being tariff free because that's the uk's sovereign decision and uk exports to the EU penalised by tariffs because the wto rules say they have to do that.

German and other eu car manufacturers will be able to carry on exporting to the uk as now, tariff free, except that imports from japan, Korea, Taiwan etc will now also be tariff free and able to undercut uk and EU suppliers.

The victims of this instance of the Brexit tax will be the employees of the uk motor industry and it will all be done fairly and squarely by applying WTO rules as a uK sover eight decision. The benefactors will be - eu manufacturers who'll see no tariff change and motor manufacturers from the rest of the world who get a tariff reduction.

If you actually read the pamphlet produced by Minford and Co putting forward their brexit economic policy you'll be able to read how they shrug their shoulders and tell uk manufacturing industry that it's tough but they'll just have to go on and find something better to do where they are cheaper than foreign suppliers.

Under the brexit economists model German, Korean, Japanese and Taiwanese car manufacturers will be able to say thanks for zero tariffs on uk imports.

UK manufacturing industry will be able to say "thanks, where's the nearest job centre?"

Or they can take the sensible view on June 23rd and say that you can keep your brexit tax. We don't want the uk to have to pay it.

There can't be many more of the usual suspects who haven't chipped in...

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

you really don't understand.... which is why i gave a fake example of the bmw factory.... and the hand gave me a chance to use a real example...

it would only make sense for a manufacturer to make cars here IF they would sell more of a particular brand of car in the UK than they would in the entire EU.... because that is where they would to add less in tariffs....

so going back to the german car you own.... because BMW would sell more cars of a certain type across the EU than it would do in the UK alone.... it would make more sense for them to have one factory make all that type of car and pass the tarriffs onto the customer.... than it would to have two factories making the same thing and duplicating the processes

it would not make sense for them to have different production lines for all the uk cars they would sell.... because of overheads... plus 1 big factory making that type of car reduces the cost per car for production

so you just killed off a large part of the UK car industry because where is the incentive for some manufacturers to stay.....

i own a prius.... they are made in japan so they already have a tariff slapped on them.... your german car doesn't.... but if brexit happens it will!!!

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

i own a prius.... they are made in japan so they already have a tariff slapped on them.... your german car doesn't.... but if brexit happens it will!!!"

No Fabio. It could, may, or possibly. Not will.

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By *igsteve43Man over a year ago

derby

German car companies alone sold 12 million cars in the UK last year so who's got who over a barrel?

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"German car companies alone sold 12 million cars in the UK last year so who's got who over a barrel?"

I get your point Steve, but even with my most optimistic Brexit head on I can't see how the Germans can sell 12 million cars in a total market of around 2.4 million.

I agree with you in principle though.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Come on Germany, get your act together

god bless you for giving me a great real life example....

so where there may not be any c class to see in the uk.... i bet mercedes sell more of those cars in the EU than they would in the UK....

so it makes more sense to mass produce those in one place and ship them (with possible tariffs) than it would to basically duplicate the manufacturing process twice and build them in the uk

and they can pass that tariff onto customer because you want the car bad enough........

mass produce right hand drives you mean

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By *igsteve43Man over a year ago

derby

You missed the point fabia and your fact is not fact

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Wont be many EU countries left after we leave as many will follow

bye bye EU

everyone vote Leave

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By *igsteve43Man over a year ago

derby

Sorry mistype meant 1.2

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By *aystay66Man over a year ago

Manchester

"I got an Irish passport last month so I don't give a shit what y'all do. I'll be fine.

But for those who think the grass is greener... does it always turn out that way? "
Might make you get a visa with yeah Irish passport bet you give a shit then mate

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By *igsteve43Man over a year ago

derby

All I know is I have received two leaflets one from remain full of scaremongering and the risks of leaving but no definitive facts ad one from leave that gives all the definite gains of leaving

I know which one I find more believable

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"You missed the point fabia and your fact is not fact

but you are not talking about one EU country... you are talking about the EU as a WHOLE... so your premise does not hold water as ALL trade deals are done as an entire block

that is why you would kill a large chunk of the UK car industry as there are not many particular car types where you would sell more in the UK alone than you would in the EU (and the wider single market area) as a WHOLE.....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

you really don't understand.... which is why i gave a fake example of the bmw factory.... and the hand gave me a chance to use a real example...

so you just killed off a large part of the UK car industry because where is the incentive for some manufacturers to stay.....

i own a prius.... they are made in japan so they already have a tariff slapped on them.... your german car doesn't.... but if brexit happens it will!!!"

Don't Japan and the EU have a free trade agreement?

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By *lymcoupleCouple over a year ago

Devon

"Sorry mistype meant 1.2 "

Still wrong, 20% of German output comes to UK- around 30% of total UK sales are German companies.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Wont be many EU countries left after we leave as many will follow

bye bye EU

everyone vote Leave

Seriously fuck off pushing your ideals, most of us - especially young people who are struggling to find the opportunities you had, are just trying to work out what is best for us and our generation. Things like that phrase only persuade me not to put my vote in with the leave lot.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Don't Japan and the EU have a free trade agreement?"

nope......

they are still in negoiations...

they started in 2012... and had their 16th round of negoiations in april according to the european commissions own website...

which is why it makes me laugh when you think that the EU Canada deal took 8 years...

and the people on the "out" side think you are going to get a lot of the major deals like a US deal done in 2....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Wont be many EU countries left after we leave as many will follow

bye bye EU

everyone vote Leave

Maybe young people don't have the opportunities now because of the EU? Just a thought

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By *lay4RealCouple over a year ago

London

just watch the "brexit the movie"

https://youtu.be/UTMxfAkxfQ0

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Don't Japan and the EU have a free trade agreement?

nope......

they are still in negoiations...

they started in 2012... and had their 16th round of negoiations in april according to the european commissions own website...

which is why it makes me laugh when you think that the EU Canada deal took 8 years...

and the people on the "out" side think you are going to get a lot of the major deals like a US deal done in 2...."

Ever thought that the delays could be down to the EU dragging its feet?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Don't Japan and the EU have a free trade agreement?

nope......

they are still in negoiations...

they started in 2012... and had their 16th round of negoiations in april according to the european commissions own website...

which is why it makes me laugh when you think that the EU Canada deal took 8 years...

and the people on the "out" side think you are going to get a lot of the major deals like a US deal done in 2...."

oh thought it was sorted sorry. But what negotiations would need to take place between the UK and EU that would take anything like that long? And what would the tarrif be on say a 20 grand car from Japan?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Don't Japan and the EU have a free trade agreement?

nope......

they are still in negoiations...

they started in 2012... and had their 16th round of negoiations in april according to the european commissions own website...

which is why it makes me laugh when you think that the EU Canada deal took 8 years...

and the people on the "out" side think you are going to get a lot of the major deals like a US deal done in 2....

Ever thought that the delays could be down to the EU dragging its feet?

while millions in the EU lose their jobs?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You missed the point fabia and your fact is not fact

the point is there is an assumption on the remain side that countries would slap tariffs on uk goods if we left but seeming as there is not one eu country that we export more to yhan import from they would be pretty stupid to put tariffs in place as we would just place reciprocal tariffs on theirs "
but don't you same brexit guys say the EU negotiate as a block and all members have to vote in favour or something ..so how is what you're saying possible that all the different countries can negotiate there tariffs on there own? If that is possible then are you guys complaining that the UK have no power in the EU?

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By *igsteve43Man over a year ago

derby

No you are wrong and missing point there 20 per cent is still way more than our 30 per cent we run a trade deficit with virtually every developed country in the world so tariffs would effect them just as much as us If and it's a big If they decided ti impliment them this is what I mean a whole argument for remaining based on an if or maybe not a definite

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Fabio, why would they cost more? Why would tariffs apply?

also... say bmw have uk factory that sells produces 220,000 cars...... sells 20,000 m3's in the UK... but exports 200,000 m3's to the continent....

it would make more sense for them to relocate because of where they sell those cars...... the tariff would only be on the 20,000 as opposed to the 200,000

and a car manufacturer is not going to put in 10 different lines for 10 different cars....

the luxury end may well stay in the uk, before they can afford the eat the tariffs, they would pass those onto customers abroad....

the uk mass market end.... you just killed"

Your argument is based on the assumption that tariffs would be applied.

It is an illogical assumption. Do you think Germany wants BMW to pay tariffs on the cars they sell here? France wanting their farmers and wine producers paying tariffs?

It simply will not happen.

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By *horehouseCouple over a year ago

dissatisfied

Fabio, why would they cost more? Why would tariffs apply?

also... say bmw have uk factory that sells produces 220,000 cars...... sells 20,000 m3's in the UK... but exports 200,000 m3's to the continent....

it would make more sense for them to relocate because of where they sell those cars...... the tariff would only be on the 20,000 as opposed to the 200,000

and a car manufacturer is not going to put in 10 different lines for 10 different cars....

the luxury end may well stay in the uk, before they can afford the eat the tariffs, they would pass those onto customers abroad....

the uk mass market end.... you just killed

Your argument is based on the assumption that tariffs would be applied.

It is an illogical assumption. Do you think Germany wants BMW to pay tariffs on the cars they sell here? France wanting their farmers and wine producers paying tariffs?

It simply will not happen."
so china exports way more to the UK than we export there and yet they slap up to 45% import tariffs on cars we send there any country can and will slap what ever tariffs they can get away with on us .and Spain could be one of the worst as they like protecting there own markets ..

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By *oredShitlessxxxCouple over a year ago

luton

"lets just go for it and see what happens

truth is no one really knows the outcome

..why are people so frighted of change !"

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