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Corbynism
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"Although I belong on the other side of the political divide.... I'll give Corbyn his due...... His intention to restrict large companies from issuing dividends and management bonus until all employees of that company are paid at least the minimum wage seems a very reasonable proposal.... ... "dont you mean living wage would of thought they are already getting paid the minimum wage now | |||
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"Although I belong on the other side of the political divide.... I'll give Corbyn his due...... His intention to restrict large companies from issuing dividends and management bonus until all employees of that company are paid at least the minimum wage seems a very reasonable proposal.... ... dont you mean living wage would of thought they are already getting paid the minimum wage now
"Indeed I stand corrected,,,,, Thank-you.....  | |||
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Mr ddc | |||
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"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc"Have we.... I mean have they... OMG..... Good old Dave,,,,,, | |||
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"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc
Have we.... I mean have they... OMG.....
Good old Dave,,,,,, "In fact, I thought the plan was to increase the minimum wage each year before the next election until it EXCEEDED the living wage espoused by Milliband at the last election. Cornyn knows that, so I must admit I have dismissed this story as pointless, political, populist, posturing. Unless I missed something | |||
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"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc"I dunno about this subject, but what do you mean by 'effectively' done that ? | |||
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"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc
Have we.... I mean have they... OMG.....
Good old Dave,,,,,,
In fact, I thought the plan was to increase the minimum wage each year before the next election until it EXCEEDED the living wage espoused by Milliband at the last election.
Cornyn knows that, so I must admit I have dismissed this story as pointless, political, populist, posturing.
Unless I missed something"If wages do increase as a result of any party political posturing its not a bad thing...... | |||
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"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc
Have we.... I mean have they... OMG.....
Good old Dave,,,,,,
In fact, I thought the plan was to increase the minimum wage each year before the next election until it EXCEEDED the living wage espoused by Milliband at the last election.
Cornyn knows that, so I must admit I have dismissed this story as pointless, political, populist, posturing.
Unless I missed something"The simultaneous changes to tax credits, for one. | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience." Propaganda designed to scare, nothing more. Nothing you have stated would happen in the real world. | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience." From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience." The negative effect examples you've quoted there are possible extremes rather than forgone conclusions... | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience. From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? " Agree, the major buyers in the market aren't holding the shares long enough to collect dividends anyway! Still a stupid policy though. Treat the disease not the symptoms. | |||
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"Predictably, this isn't what the Tories have 'effectively done' at all, no. Corbyn's proposals are designed to make sure that the workers will be fairly paid and that there will not be a huge disparity between the scale of worker and management pay. " . Only one a slight problem. We need good management to ensure the future of companies . It is impossible to be underpaid as you simply leave your current employer and join a newer one at a higher salary . That is assuming that you have the necessary skills . | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience." it would be piss in the ocean for mulitnationals .... the affect would be marginal | |||
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"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc
Have we.... I mean have they... OMG.....
Good old Dave,,,,,,
In fact, I thought the plan was to increase the minimum wage each year before the next election until it EXCEEDED the living wage espoused by Milliband at the last election.
Cornyn knows that, so I must admit I have dismissed this story as pointless, political, populist, posturing.
Unless I missed something
The simultaneous changes to tax credits, for one."I must admit I still remain to be convinced by these changes, and actually listened to the last debate on BBC Parliament, but surely the whole idea of a 'living' wage is that it's high enough to live on. Hence no need for the taxpayer to subsidise it? | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience." . Excellent post and my thoughts exactly . Luckily Jeremy Corbyn will never be elected and as such he can say anything that he likes as he will never be held to account . Most investors are pension funds and our future depends on them managing their investments successfully . | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience. From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? " And how would the share price go up if no dividends? Simple economics! | |||
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" And how would the share price go up if no dividends? Simple economics!" I take it your not a financial expert.... | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience. From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? " . Over a long period of time , there is a correlation between dividends paid and the share price . Investing in shares that pay no dividend is highly risky | |||
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"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc
Have we.... I mean have they... OMG.....
Good old Dave,,,,,,
In fact, I thought the plan was to increase the minimum wage each year before the next election until it EXCEEDED the living wage espoused by Milliband at the last election.
Cornyn knows that, so I must admit I have dismissed this story as pointless, political, populist, posturing.
Unless I missed something
The simultaneous changes to tax credits, for one.
I must admit I still remain to be convinced by these changes, and actually listened to the last debate on BBC Parliament, but surely the whole idea of a 'living' wage is that it's high enough to live on. Hence no need for the taxpayer to subsidise it?"In theory, yes. Predictably, the Tory policy is not designed to have that effect at all. The only relationship between the Tory proposals and a living wage is that they have called it a living wage. They have done this so that people who look no further than the headlines will believe that the Tories are introducing a living wage. Combined with other changes, most people currently earning a minimum wage will be worse off under the 'living wage'. It's simple really. If you think any Tory policy will make you better off, check to see if you are dependent on the state in any way first. If the answer is yes, you haven't understood the policy. | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience. From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? And how would the share price go up if no dividends? Simple economics!" Share prices move for a variety of reasons . So can move up cos 1) takeover announced . 2) revenue growing faster than costs 3) new biz opps appear 4) market changes - eg legislation Etc I'd go as far as to say earnings don't play that big a role, as mixedbi said above - few hold that long. | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience. From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? . Over a long period of time , there is a correlation between dividends paid and the share price . Investing in shares that pay no dividend is highly risky " Typical to see how done interpret making sure that workers are paid fairly before dividends are issued as 'shares will not pay dividends'. No wonder people think Osborne is a competent chancellor.  | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience. From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? And how would the share price go up if no dividends? Simple economics!" . Well.... If you've been buying back all your shares with ridiculously cheap QE credit.. Then share prices go up and with that board level pay goes up. | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience. From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? . Over a long period of time , there is a correlation between dividends paid and the share price . Investing in shares that pay no dividend is highly risky " Sure, it's all risky. But there are whole markets full of products stripped from their divvy. Gilts/ bonds for example. prob some out there for stocks as well | |||
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" Surely the whole idea of a 'living' wage is that it's high enough to live on. Hence no need for the taxpayer to subsidise it? In theory, yes. Predictably, the Tory policy is not designed to have that effect at all. The only relationship between the Tory proposals and a living wage is that they have called it a living wage. They have done this so that people who look no further than the headlines will believe that the Tories are introducing a living wage. Combined with other changes, most people currently earning a minimum wage will be worse off under the 'living wage'. It's simple really. If you think any Tory policy will make you better off, check to see if you are dependent on the state in any way first. If the answer is yes, you haven't understood the policy." Isn't it? Ooh, sneaky. The fact you have to watch Osborne is the reason he'll never be elected prime minister either. But aren't we all dependent upon the state? Whether it be by how much we receive, or how much we give? | |||
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" Surely the whole idea of a 'living' wage is that it's high enough to live on. Hence no need for the taxpayer to subsidise it? In theory, yes. Predictably, the Tory policy is not designed to have that effect at all. The only relationship between the Tory proposals and a living wage is that they have called it a living wage. They have done this so that people who look no further than the headlines will believe that the Tories are introducing a living wage. Combined with other changes, most people currently earning a minimum wage will be worse off under the 'living wage'. It's simple really. If you think any Tory policy will make you better off, check to see if you are dependent on the state in any way first. If the answer is yes, you haven't understood the policy. Isn't it? Ooh, sneaky. The fact you have to watch Osborne is the reason he'll never be elected prime minister either. But aren't we all dependent upon the state? Whether it be by how much we receive, or how much we give? " is this a rhetorical question or just a bear trap? | |||
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"Gilts and bonds pay fixed rates.....not sure of the point that is being made here....." . There looking at the yield | |||
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"Gilts and bonds pay fixed rates.....not sure of the point that is being made here....." Do you know what a coupon is , and why it gets stripped from the principal? | |||
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"Gilts and bonds pay fixed rates.....not sure of the point that is being made here..... Do you know what a coupon is , and why it gets stripped from the principal? " . I don't think most people do! The system is currently eating away at itself. Just look at bond markets... 300 year lows. Board level pay has gone through the roof because they've been gorging on bail out money? The yanks haven't raised interest rates because the general economy is swell, they've raised it trying to calm the self eating board members.... It's a giant gravy train and as expected when those interest rates go up... Look for a big derail | |||
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"Happy workers = Happy customers. Love him or hate him but Richard Branson doesn't subscribe to, "the customer comes first" philosophy. He believes that the employee comes first and that leads to happy employees and therefore happy customers. Perhaps Jeremy has it right?" Yes I can attest to Mr Branson strict adherence to putting the customer second on his wonderful train company  | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience. From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? And how would the share price go up if no dividends? Simple economics! Share prices move for a variety of reasons . So can move up cos 1) takeover announced . 2) revenue growing faster than costs 3) new biz opps appear 4) market changes - eg legislation Etc I'd go as far as to say earnings don't play that big a role, as mixedbi said above - few hold that long. " . Most pension funds are long term holders of shares and we are dependent on dividend income from them in order to pay pensioners . | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience. From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? And how would the share price go up if no dividends? Simple economics! Share prices move for a variety of reasons . So can move up cos 1) takeover announced . 2) revenue growing faster than costs 3) new biz opps appear 4) market changes - eg legislation Etc I'd go as far as to say earnings don't play that big a role, as mixedbi said above - few hold that long. . Most pension funds are long term holders of shares and we are dependent on dividend income from them in order to pay pensioners . " Let's assume that's true, which is debatable, what % of the market are you assuming pension funds control? Relative to say hedge funds, sovereign wealth funds, mutual funds, individuals and insurance funds. | |||
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"All that would happen is that companies would list on other stock markets such as New York or Frankfurt. You don't have to have offices or even headquarters in a country to list and then you can pay dividends so very easy to get round." . A good post and my thoughts exactly | |||
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"Happy workers = Happy customers. Love him or hate him but Richard Branson doesn't subscribe to, "the customer comes first" philosophy. He believes that the employee comes first and that leads to happy employees and therefore happy customers. Perhaps Jeremy has it right? Yes I can attest to Mr Branson strict adherence to putting the customer second on his wonderful train company "I haven't been on a train yet that I would recommend - and there are not many train companies that I haven't sampled. | |||
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"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc"Not really, even if Osborne is able to deliver on his promise of £9 an hour at 2020 - which I doubt, it's still not a "living wage". The Tories effectively want the majority of people to rent privately or buy their own homes, and to turn the NHS into a business. £9 an hour does not allow for lets just say a 25 year old to: pay of any student or prior debt, save for their own home, pay either for a car, or commuter costs, eat a healthy diet, an enjoy a good quality of life outside of work all at the same time. | |||
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"Happy workers = Happy customers. Love him or hate him but Richard Branson doesn't subscribe to, "the customer comes first" philosophy. He believes that the employee comes first and that leads to happy employees and therefore happy customers. Perhaps Jeremy has it right? Yes I can attest to Mr Branson strict adherence to putting the customer second on his wonderful train company "Personally as a consumer I'd be pissed off if I found out the producer did not pay or treat the employees well. | |||
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"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc
Have we.... I mean have they... OMG.....
Good old Dave,,,,,,
In fact, I thought the plan was to increase the minimum wage each year before the next election until it EXCEEDED the living wage espoused by Milliband at the last election.
Cornyn knows that, so I must admit I have dismissed this story as pointless, political, populist, posturing.
Unless I missed something"yep...... you do know the "national living wage" only applies to those over 25........  | |||
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"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc
Have we.... I mean have they... OMG.....
Good old Dave,,,,,,
In fact, I thought the plan was to increase the minimum wage each year before the next election until it EXCEEDED the living wage espoused by Milliband at the last election.
Cornyn knows that, so I must admit I have dismissed this story as pointless, political, populist, posturing.
Unless I missed something
yep...... you do know the "national living wage" only applies to those over 25........ "I explained this to my younger sister who isn't sure what or who is better and she responded sarcasticly, "So the government doesn't seem to think that under 25's are entitled to the same earnings? What about if they have a degree and debt to pay off? What about getting more money own for a house?" | |||
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"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc
Have we.... I mean have they... OMG.....
Good old Dave,,,,,,
In fact, I thought the plan was to increase the minimum wage each year before the next election until it EXCEEDED the living wage espoused by Milliband at the last election.
Cornyn knows that, so I must admit I have dismissed this story as pointless, political, populist, posturing.
Unless I missed something
yep...... you do know the "national living wage" only applies to those over 25........
I explained this to my younger sister who isn't sure what or who is better and she responded sarcasticly, "So the government doesn't seem to think that under 25's are entitled to the same earnings? What about if they have a degree and debt to pay off? What about getting more money own for a house?""Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal... | |||
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" Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal..." thats a really easy thing to say..... but you probably interact with way more people on the minimum wage than you probably realise..... it just seems odd when for people doing the same job... the minimum wage for those 16-17 is lower than those 18+... and the minimum wage for those 18-24 is lower than those 25+ | |||
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" Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal... thats a really easy thing to say..... but you probably interact with way more people on the minimum wage than you probably realise..... it just seems odd when for people doing the same job... the minimum wage for those 16-17 is lower than those 18+... and the minimum wage for those 18-24 is lower than those 25+ " I interact with them, I used to be one and I have nothing against them. I'm just saying that this week there was a thread about jobs and a whole load of people enjoyed shouting from the rooftops that the "work to live, not live to work" and how stupid it was to get stressed out over work - well that's the kind of attitude that helps you get a minimum wage job. If that's your choice then no problem, but don't make the choice and complain you want more money is all I'm saying. | |||
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"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc
Have we.... I mean have they... OMG.....
Good old Dave,,,,,,
In fact, I thought the plan was to increase the minimum wage each year before the next election until it EXCEEDED the living wage espoused by Milliband at the last election.
Cornyn knows that, so I must admit I have dismissed this story as pointless, political, populist, posturing.
Unless I missed something
yep...... you do know the "national living wage" only applies to those over 25........
I explained this to my younger sister who isn't sure what or who is better and she responded sarcasticly, "So the government doesn't seem to think that under 25's are entitled to the same earnings? What about if they have a degree and debt to pay off? What about getting more money own for a house?"
Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal..."That was quite ignorant and narrow minded. You really think that a young woman who has a first in Chemistry would want to get a minimum wage job? I don't think you really understand the harsh reality which faces young people. Career jobs are rare - eg jobs which pay lets just say around the £21 grand mark. Having a degree only helps if you are applying for a specialist job. | |||
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" Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal... thats a really easy thing to say..... but you probably interact with way more people on the minimum wage than you probably realise..... it just seems odd when for people doing the same job... the minimum wage for those 16-17 is lower than those 18+... and the minimum wage for those 18-24 is lower than those 25+ I interact with them, I used to be one and I have nothing against them. I'm just saying that this week there was a thread about jobs and a whole load of people enjoyed shouting from the rooftops that the "work to live, not live to work" and how stupid it was to get stressed out over work - well that's the kind of attitude that helps you get a minimum wage job. If that's your choice then no problem, but don't make the choice and complain you want more money is all I'm saying." exactly why is it intelligent to get stressed out over work.... not sure i follow what you're saying | |||
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" Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal... thats a really easy thing to say..... but you probably interact with way more people on the minimum wage than you probably realise..... it just seems odd when for people doing the same job... the minimum wage for those 16-17 is lower than those 18+... and the minimum wage for those 18-24 is lower than those 25+ I interact with them, I used to be one and I have nothing against them. I'm just saying that this week there was a thread about jobs and a whole load of people enjoyed shouting from the rooftops that the "work to live, not live to work" and how stupid it was to get stressed out over work - well that's the kind of attitude that helps you get a minimum wage job. If that's your choice then no problem, but don't make the choice and complain you want more money is all I'm saying." I think you are being very narrow minded. The Tories brag about creating a lot of jobs, but most are part time or low wage jobs. Not career jobs. Yes, we need low wage jobs, they are ideal for young individuals getting their first career. However the sad fact is that outside of London their is a lower rate of career jobs being created. Additionally, I think that people have a point, this country has one of the poorest work to pay and work to life ratios. Yes sometime you have to put extra hours in, but not every bloody week. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal... thats a really easy thing to say..... but you probably interact with way more people on the minimum wage than you probably realise..... it just seems odd when for people doing the same job... the minimum wage for those 16-17 is lower than those 18+... and the minimum wage for those 18-24 is lower than those 25+ I interact with them, I used to be one and I have nothing against them. I'm just saying that this week there was a thread about jobs and a whole load of people enjoyed shouting from the rooftops that the "work to live, not live to work" and how stupid it was to get stressed out over work - well that's the kind of attitude that helps you get a minimum wage job. If that's your choice then no problem, but don't make the choice and complain you want more money is all I'm saying. I think you are being very narrow minded. The Tories brag about creating a lot of jobs, but most are part time or low wage jobs. Not career jobs. Yes, we need low wage jobs, they are ideal for young individuals getting their first career. However the sad fact is that outside of London their is a lower rate of career jobs being created. Additionally, I think that people have a point, this country has one of the poorest work to pay and work to life ratios. Yes sometime you have to put extra hours in, but not every bloody week." I beg to differ. If you think people in Asia have better work to life ratios then you simply haven't travelled much, there's 60% of the world's population. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc
Have we.... I mean have they... OMG.....
Good old Dave,,,,,,
In fact, I thought the plan was to increase the minimum wage each year before the next election until it EXCEEDED the living wage espoused by Milliband at the last election.
Cornyn knows that, so I must admit I have dismissed this story as pointless, political, populist, posturing.
Unless I missed something
yep...... you do know the "national living wage" only applies to those over 25........
I explained this to my younger sister who isn't sure what or who is better and she responded sarcasticly, "So the government doesn't seem to think that under 25's are entitled to the same earnings? What about if they have a degree and debt to pay off? What about getting more money own for a house?"
Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal...
That was quite ignorant and narrow minded. You really think that a young woman who has a first in Chemistry would want to get a minimum wage job? I don't think you really understand the harsh reality which faces young people. "Jeez I'm not that fucking old! I graduated about 8 years ago, has it changed that much? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal... thats a really easy thing to say..... but you probably interact with way more people on the minimum wage than you probably realise..... it just seems odd when for people doing the same job... the minimum wage for those 16-17 is lower than those 18+... and the minimum wage for those 18-24 is lower than those 25+ I interact with them, I used to be one and I have nothing against them. I'm just saying that this week there was a thread about jobs and a whole load of people enjoyed shouting from the rooftops that the "work to live, not live to work" and how stupid it was to get stressed out over work - well that's the kind of attitude that helps you get a minimum wage job. If that's your choice then no problem, but don't make the choice and complain you want more money is all I'm saying. I think you are being very narrow minded. The Tories brag about creating a lot of jobs, but most are part time or low wage jobs. Not career jobs. Yes, we need low wage jobs, they are ideal for young individuals getting their first career. However the sad fact is that outside of London their is a lower rate of career jobs being created. Additionally, I think that people have a point, this country has one of the poorest work to pay and work to life ratios. Yes sometime you have to put extra hours in, but not every bloody week. I beg to differ. If you think people in Asia have better work to life ratios then you simply haven't travelled much, there's 60% of the world's population. " Where on Earth id you get Asia from? I'm focusing mainly on comparing to other Northern an Western European countries. When I spend a year doing a year in the Biotech industry in Denmark I was shocked by how happy people generally were. They put it down to good pay and sensible contracted hours. For the first month I often stayed an hour or two after many other people an the Danish, French, Swedish, Germans and Spanish I worked with thought I was mad. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal... thats a really easy thing to say..... but you probably interact with way more people on the minimum wage than you probably realise..... it just seems odd when for people doing the same job... the minimum wage for those 16-17 is lower than those 18+... and the minimum wage for those 18-24 is lower than those 25+ I interact with them, I used to be one and I have nothing against them. I'm just saying that this week there was a thread about jobs and a whole load of people enjoyed shouting from the rooftops that the "work to live, not live to work" and how stupid it was to get stressed out over work - well that's the kind of attitude that helps you get a minimum wage job. If that's your choice then no problem, but don't make the choice and complain you want more money is all I'm saying. I think you are being very narrow minded. The Tories brag about creating a lot of jobs, but most are part time or low wage jobs. Not career jobs. Yes, we need low wage jobs, they are ideal for young individuals getting their first career. However the sad fact is that outside of London their is a lower rate of career jobs being created. Additionally, I think that people have a point, this country has one of the poorest work to pay and work to life ratios. Yes sometime you have to put extra hours in, but not every bloody week. I beg to differ. If you think people in Asia have better work to life ratios then you simply haven't travelled much, there's 60% of the world's population. Where on Earth id you get Asia from? I'm focusing mainly on comparing to other Northern an Western European countries. When I spend a year doing a year in the Biotech industry in Denmark I was shocked by how happy people generally were. They put it down to good pay and sensible contracted hours. For the first month I often stayed an hour or two after many other people an the Danish, French, Swedish, Germans and Spanish I worked with thought I was mad. " *did | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal... thats a really easy thing to say..... but you probably interact with way more people on the minimum wage than you probably realise..... it just seems odd when for people doing the same job... the minimum wage for those 16-17 is lower than those 18+... and the minimum wage for those 18-24 is lower than those 25+ I interact with them, I used to be one and I have nothing against them. I'm just saying that this week there was a thread about jobs and a whole load of people enjoyed shouting from the rooftops that the "work to live, not live to work" and how stupid it was to get stressed out over work - well that's the kind of attitude that helps you get a minimum wage job. If that's your choice then no problem, but don't make the choice and complain you want more money is all I'm saying. I think you are being very narrow minded. The Tories brag about creating a lot of jobs, but most are part time or low wage jobs. Not career jobs. Yes, we need low wage jobs, they are ideal for young individuals getting their first career. However the sad fact is that outside of London their is a lower rate of career jobs being created. Additionally, I think that people have a point, this country has one of the poorest work to pay and work to life ratios. Yes sometime you have to put extra hours in, but not every bloody week. I beg to differ. If you think people in Asia have better work to life ratios then you simply haven't travelled much, there's 60% of the world's population. Where on Earth id you get Asia from? I'm focusing mainly on comparing to other Northern an Western European countries. When I spend a year doing a year in the Biotech industry in Denmark I was shocked by how happy people generally were. They put it down to good pay and sensible contracted hours. For the first month I often stayed an hour or two after many other people an the Danish, French, Swedish, Germans and Spanish I worked with thought I was mad. " Well then your comment about work to life ratios is nonsense then. You can make any argument if you make the sample small enough! Ummm let's exclude over half the world's population from our sample because including them would void my conclusion!!! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc
Have we.... I mean have they... OMG.....
Good old Dave,,,,,,
In fact, I thought the plan was to increase the minimum wage each year before the next election until it EXCEEDED the living wage espoused by Milliband at the last election.
Cornyn knows that, so I must admit I have dismissed this story as pointless, political, populist, posturing.
Unless I missed something
yep...... you do know the "national living wage" only applies to those over 25........
I explained this to my younger sister who isn't sure what or who is better and she responded sarcasticly, "So the government doesn't seem to think that under 25's are entitled to the same earnings? What about if they have a degree and debt to pay off? What about getting more money own for a house?"
Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal...
That was quite ignorant and narrow minded. You really think that a young woman who has a first in Chemistry would want to get a minimum wage job? I don't think you really understand the harsh reality which faces young people.
Jeez I'm not that fucking old! I graduated about 8 years ago, has it changed that much? "8 years ago, so you either graduated just before, after or during the 2008 crash? Yes, things have changed a lot since then. 8 years is plenty of time for less economically developed regions of a country to go from bad to worse in terms of job opportunities and job quality. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal... thats a really easy thing to say..... but you probably interact with way more people on the minimum wage than you probably realise..... it just seems odd when for people doing the same job... the minimum wage for those 16-17 is lower than those 18+... and the minimum wage for those 18-24 is lower than those 25+ I interact with them, I used to be one and I have nothing against them. I'm just saying that this week there was a thread about jobs and a whole load of people enjoyed shouting from the rooftops that the "work to live, not live to work" and how stupid it was to get stressed out over work - well that's the kind of attitude that helps you get a minimum wage job. If that's your choice then no problem, but don't make the choice and complain you want more money is all I'm saying. I think you are being very narrow minded. The Tories brag about creating a lot of jobs, but most are part time or low wage jobs. Not career jobs. Yes, we need low wage jobs, they are ideal for young individuals getting their first career. However the sad fact is that outside of London their is a lower rate of career jobs being created. Additionally, I think that people have a point, this country has one of the poorest work to pay and work to life ratios. Yes sometime you have to put extra hours in, but not every bloody week. I beg to differ. If you think people in Asia have better work to life ratios then you simply haven't travelled much, there's 60% of the world's population. Where on Earth id you get Asia from? I'm focusing mainly on comparing to other Northern an Western European countries. When I spend a year doing a year in the Biotech industry in Denmark I was shocked by how happy people generally were. They put it down to good pay and sensible contracted hours. For the first month I often stayed an hour or two after many other people an the Danish, French, Swedish, Germans and Spanish I worked with thought I was mad. Well then your comment about work to life ratios is nonsense then. You can make any argument if you make the sample small enough! Ummm let's exclude over half the world's population from our sample because including them would void my conclusion!!! " the comparing apples and oranges principle has a bearing here .... both lines of reasoning are positive and so cancel each other out | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal... thats a really easy thing to say..... but you probably interact with way more people on the minimum wage than you probably realise..... it just seems odd when for people doing the same job... the minimum wage for those 16-17 is lower than those 18+... and the minimum wage for those 18-24 is lower than those 25+ I interact with them, I used to be one and I have nothing against them. I'm just saying that this week there was a thread about jobs and a whole load of people enjoyed shouting from the rooftops that the "work to live, not live to work" and how stupid it was to get stressed out over work - well that's the kind of attitude that helps you get a minimum wage job. If that's your choice then no problem, but don't make the choice and complain you want more money is all I'm saying. I think you are being very narrow minded. The Tories brag about creating a lot of jobs, but most are part time or low wage jobs. Not career jobs. Yes, we need low wage jobs, they are ideal for young individuals getting their first career. However the sad fact is that outside of London their is a lower rate of career jobs being created. Additionally, I think that people have a point, this country has one of the poorest work to pay and work to life ratios. Yes sometime you have to put extra hours in, but not every bloody week. I beg to differ. If you think people in Asia have better work to life ratios then you simply haven't travelled much, there's 60% of the world's population. Where on Earth id you get Asia from? I'm focusing mainly on comparing to other Northern an Western European countries. When I spend a year doing a year in the Biotech industry in Denmark I was shocked by how happy people generally were. They put it down to good pay and sensible contracted hours. For the first month I often stayed an hour or two after many other people an the Danish, French, Swedish, Germans and Spanish I worked with thought I was mad. Well then your comment about work to life ratios is nonsense then. You can make any argument if you make the sample small enough! Ummm let's exclude over half the world's population from our sample because including them would void my conclusion!!! " Okay if we are going into samples, statistics and numbers, and who and what to ignore then really we have to ignore any country with, in this case, poor pay to work ratios, and poor quality of life to work ratios. Why? The point is the UK has to be developed and improved further. I think coming from a modern developed nation, many British people feel as though they have been given the short end of the stick. We should be looking at developed nations who currently offer better quality to their citizens. That is my point. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc
Have we.... I mean have they... OMG.....
Good old Dave,,,,,,
In fact, I thought the plan was to increase the minimum wage each year before the next election until it EXCEEDED the living wage espoused by Milliband at the last election.
Cornyn knows that, so I must admit I have dismissed this story as pointless, political, populist, posturing.
Unless I missed something
yep...... you do know the "national living wage" only applies to those over 25........
I explained this to my younger sister who isn't sure what or who is better and she responded sarcasticly, "So the government doesn't seem to think that under 25's are entitled to the same earnings? What about if they have a degree and debt to pay off? What about getting more money own for a house?"
Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal...
That was quite ignorant and narrow minded. You really think that a young woman who has a first in Chemistry would want to get a minimum wage job? I don't think you really understand the harsh reality which faces young people.
Jeez I'm not that fucking old! I graduated about 8 years ago, has it changed that much?
8 years ago, so you either graduated just before, after or during the 2008 crash? Yes, things have changed a lot since then. 8 years is plenty of time for less economically developed regions of a country to go from bad to worse in terms of job opportunities and job quality."Pretty much during the crash. Twas not a fun job market I tell thee... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal... thats a really easy thing to say..... but you probably interact with way more people on the minimum wage than you probably realise..... it just seems odd when for people doing the same job... the minimum wage for those 16-17 is lower than those 18+... and the minimum wage for those 18-24 is lower than those 25+ I interact with them, I used to be one and I have nothing against them. I'm just saying that this week there was a thread about jobs and a whole load of people enjoyed shouting from the rooftops that the "work to live, not live to work" and how stupid it was to get stressed out over work - well that's the kind of attitude that helps you get a minimum wage job. If that's your choice then no problem, but don't make the choice and complain you want more money is all I'm saying. I think you are being very narrow minded. The Tories brag about creating a lot of jobs, but most are part time or low wage jobs. Not career jobs. Yes, we need low wage jobs, they are ideal for young individuals getting their first career. However the sad fact is that outside of London their is a lower rate of career jobs being created. Additionally, I think that people have a point, this country has one of the poorest work to pay and work to life ratios. Yes sometime you have to put extra hours in, but not every bloody week. I beg to differ. If you think people in Asia have better work to life ratios then you simply haven't travelled much, there's 60% of the world's population. Where on Earth id you get Asia from? I'm focusing mainly on comparing to other Northern an Western European countries. When I spend a year doing a year in the Biotech industry in Denmark I was shocked by how happy people generally were. They put it down to good pay and sensible contracted hours. For the first month I often stayed an hour or two after many other people an the Danish, French, Swedish, Germans and Spanish I worked with thought I was mad. Well then your comment about work to life ratios is nonsense then. You can make any argument if you make the sample small enough! Ummm let's exclude over half the world's population from our sample because including them would void my conclusion!!! Okay if we are going into samples, statistics and numbers, and who and what to ignore then really we have to ignore any country with, in this case, poor pay to work ratios, and poor quality of life to work ratios. Why? The point is the UK has to be developed and improved further. I think coming from a modern developed nation, many British people feel as though they have been given the short end of the stick. We should be looking at developed nations who currently offer better quality to their citizens. That is my point." OK and the best way to achieve that is to improve worker productivity, something JC has no bright ideas about because he doesn't properly understand the concept; having never had a real job or managed jack shit. If you just make arbitrary rules about wages, without changing productivity then you just create inflation which has a disproportionally bad effect on the lowest incomes, thus defeating the whole purpose. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc
Have we.... I mean have they... OMG.....
Good old Dave,,,,,,
In fact, I thought the plan was to increase the minimum wage each year before the next election until it EXCEEDED the living wage espoused by Milliband at the last election.
Cornyn knows that, so I must admit I have dismissed this story as pointless, political, populist, posturing.
Unless I missed something
yep...... you do know the "national living wage" only applies to those over 25........
I explained this to my younger sister who isn't sure what or who is better and she responded sarcasticly, "So the government doesn't seem to think that under 25's are entitled to the same earnings? What about if they have a degree and debt to pay off? What about getting more money own for a house?"
Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal...
That was quite ignorant and narrow minded. You really think that a young woman who has a first in Chemistry would want to get a minimum wage job? I don't think you really understand the harsh reality which faces young people.
Jeez I'm not that fucking old! I graduated about 8 years ago, has it changed that much?
8 years ago, so you either graduated just before, after or during the 2008 crash? Yes, things have changed a lot since then. 8 years is plenty of time for less economically developed regions of a country to go from bad to worse in terms of job opportunities and job quality.
Pretty much during the crash. Twas not a fun job market I tell thee..."Undoubtedly. Which area of the UK were you in at the time? The fact is most career/graduate jobs which have been created in the UK are within London or the South East. Which is where the problem lies, how are motivated, ha workers meant to truly get on the career ladder. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc
Have we.... I mean have they... OMG.....
Good old Dave,,,,,,
In fact, I thought the plan was to increase the minimum wage each year before the next election until it EXCEEDED the living wage espoused by Milliband at the last election.
Cornyn knows that, so I must admit I have dismissed this story as pointless, political, populist, posturing.
Unless I missed something
yep...... you do know the "national living wage" only applies to those over 25........
I explained this to my younger sister who isn't sure what or who is better and she responded sarcasticly, "So the government doesn't seem to think that under 25's are entitled to the same earnings? What about if they have a degree and debt to pay off? What about getting more money own for a house?"
Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal...
That was quite ignorant and narrow minded. You really think that a young woman who has a first in Chemistry would want to get a minimum wage job? I don't think you really understand the harsh reality which faces young people.
Jeez I'm not that fucking old! I graduated about 8 years ago, has it changed that much?
8 years ago, so you either graduated just before, after or during the 2008 crash? Yes, things have changed a lot since then. 8 years is plenty of time for less economically developed regions of a country to go from bad to worse in terms of job opportunities and job quality.
Pretty much during the crash. Twas not a fun job market I tell thee...
Undoubtedly. Which area of the UK were you in at the time? The fact is most career/graduate jobs which have been created in the UK are within London or the South East. Which is where the problem lies, how are motivated, ha workers meant to truly get on the career ladder. "I was in the south west at the time. Within a couple of years I moved to the south east because there were better opportunities. So unfortunately the answer is that you move to where the jobs are because if you wait for them to come to you, then you might wait your whole life. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal... thats a really easy thing to say..... but you probably interact with way more people on the minimum wage than you probably realise..... it just seems odd when for people doing the same job... the minimum wage for those 16-17 is lower than those 18+... and the minimum wage for those 18-24 is lower than those 25+ I interact with them, I used to be one and I have nothing against them. I'm just saying that this week there was a thread about jobs and a whole load of people enjoyed shouting from the rooftops that the "work to live, not live to work" and how stupid it was to get stressed out over work - well that's the kind of attitude that helps you get a minimum wage job. If that's your choice then no problem, but don't make the choice and complain you want more money is all I'm saying. I think you are being very narrow minded. The Tories brag about creating a lot of jobs, but most are part time or low wage jobs. Not career jobs. Yes, we need low wage jobs, they are ideal for young individuals getting their first career. However the sad fact is that outside of London their is a lower rate of career jobs being created. Additionally, I think that people have a point, this country has one of the poorest work to pay and work to life ratios. Yes sometime you have to put extra hours in, but not every bloody week. I beg to differ. If you think people in Asia have better work to life ratios then you simply haven't travelled much, there's 60% of the world's population. Where on Earth id you get Asia from? I'm focusing mainly on comparing to other Northern an Western European countries. When I spend a year doing a year in the Biotech industry in Denmark I was shocked by how happy people generally were. They put it down to good pay and sensible contracted hours. For the first month I often stayed an hour or two after many other people an the Danish, French, Swedish, Germans and Spanish I worked with thought I was mad. Well then your comment about work to life ratios is nonsense then. You can make any argument if you make the sample small enough! Ummm let's exclude over half the world's population from our sample because including them would void my conclusion!!! Okay if we are going into samples, statistics and numbers, and who and what to ignore then really we have to ignore any country with, in this case, poor pay to work ratios, and poor quality of life to work ratios. Why? The point is the UK has to be developed and improved further. I think coming from a modern developed nation, many British people feel as though they have been given the short end of the stick. We should be looking at developed nations who currently offer better quality to their citizens. That is my point. OK and the best way to achieve that is to improve worker productivity, something JC has no bright ideas about because he doesn't properly understand the concept; having never had a real job or managed jack shit. If you just make arbitrary rules about wages, without changing productivity then you just create inflation which has a disproportionally bad effect on the lowest incomes, thus defeating the whole purpose. " With all due respect before you mentioned him I had not mentioned Corbyn in this. Yet here is the problem - if you were to read academic research papers which combine data from Psychologists and human health biologists you would realise that a poor work to life ratio coupled with insufficient pay for the cost of living leads to lower productivity in samples of people ranging from small group studies to groups in the 1000 number. Surely as evidenced in the recent junior doctors strike, pushing people to work longer increases the risk of inefficient or even dangerous work being conducted? Especially if the government/business owner is not supporting the 'boots on the ground' worker with good resources. In trying not to argue to intensely here - obviously we have two different lines of thought and different priorities. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc
Have we.... I mean have they... OMG.....
Good old Dave,,,,,,
In fact, I thought the plan was to increase the minimum wage each year before the next election until it EXCEEDED the living wage espoused by Milliband at the last election.
Cornyn knows that, so I must admit I have dismissed this story as pointless, political, populist, posturing.
Unless I missed something
yep...... you do know the "national living wage" only applies to those over 25........
I explained this to my younger sister who isn't sure what or who is better and she responded sarcasticly, "So the government doesn't seem to think that under 25's are entitled to the same earnings? What about if they have a degree and debt to pay off? What about getting more money own for a house?"
Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal...
That was quite ignorant and narrow minded. You really think that a young woman who has a first in Chemistry would want to get a minimum wage job? I don't think you really understand the harsh reality which faces young people.
Jeez I'm not that fucking old! I graduated about 8 years ago, has it changed that much?
8 years ago, so you either graduated just before, after or during the 2008 crash? Yes, things have changed a lot since then. 8 years is plenty of time for less economically developed regions of a country to go from bad to worse in terms of job opportunities and job quality.
Pretty much during the crash. Twas not a fun job market I tell thee...
Undoubtedly. Which area of the UK were you in at the time? The fact is most career/graduate jobs which have been created in the UK are within London or the South East. Which is where the problem lies, how are motivated, ha workers meant to truly get on the career ladder.
I was in the south west at the time. Within a couple of years I moved to the south east because there were better opportunities. So unfortunately the answer is that you move to where the jobs are because if you wait for them to come to you, then you might wait your whole life. "Right okay, so here in comes another problem. You tell this to someone who has more debt to pay off than you did, who after university has no savings, whose parents do not have the money spare to help you make that economic movement. How do you think they will respond? Additionally is this not something the government should tackle? The fact that there are people with good qualifications who are going to waste because the incorrect investment is being incorporated in the wrong regions? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal... thats a really easy thing to say..... but you probably interact with way more people on the minimum wage than you probably realise..... it just seems odd when for people doing the same job... the minimum wage for those 16-17 is lower than those 18+... and the minimum wage for those 18-24 is lower than those 25+ I interact with them, I used to be one and I have nothing against them. I'm just saying that this week there was a thread about jobs and a whole load of people enjoyed shouting from the rooftops that the "work to live, not live to work" and how stupid it was to get stressed out over work - well that's the kind of attitude that helps you get a minimum wage job. If that's your choice then no problem, but don't make the choice and complain you want more money is all I'm saying. I think you are being very narrow minded. The Tories brag about creating a lot of jobs, but most are part time or low wage jobs. Not career jobs. Yes, we need low wage jobs, they are ideal for young individuals getting their first career. However the sad fact is that outside of London their is a lower rate of career jobs being created. Additionally, I think that people have a point, this country has one of the poorest work to pay and work to life ratios. Yes sometime you have to put extra hours in, but not every bloody week. I beg to differ. If you think people in Asia have better work to life ratios then you simply haven't travelled much, there's 60% of the world's population. Where on Earth id you get Asia from? I'm focusing mainly on comparing to other Northern an Western European countries. When I spend a year doing a year in the Biotech industry in Denmark I was shocked by how happy people generally were. They put it down to good pay and sensible contracted hours. For the first month I often stayed an hour or two after many other people an the Danish, French, Swedish, Germans and Spanish I worked with thought I was mad. Well then your comment about work to life ratios is nonsense then. You can make any argument if you make the sample small enough! Ummm let's exclude over half the world's population from our sample because including them would void my conclusion!!! Okay if we are going into samples, statistics and numbers, and who and what to ignore then really we have to ignore any country with, in this case, poor pay to work ratios, and poor quality of life to work ratios. Why? The point is the UK has to be developed and improved further. I think coming from a modern developed nation, many British people feel as though they have been given the short end of the stick. We should be looking at developed nations who currently offer better quality to their citizens. That is my point. OK and the best way to achieve that is to improve worker productivity, something JC has no bright ideas about because he doesn't properly understand the concept; having never had a real job or managed jack shit. If you just make arbitrary rules about wages, without changing productivity then you just create inflation which has a disproportionally bad effect on the lowest incomes, thus defeating the whole purpose. With all due respect before you mentioned him I had not mentioned Corbyn in this. Yet here is the problem - if you were to read academic research papers which combine data from Psychologists and human health biologists you would realise that a poor work to life ratio coupled with insufficient pay for the cost of living leads to lower productivity in samples of people ranging from small group studies to groups in the 1000 number. Surely as evidenced in the recent junior doctors strike, pushing people to work longer increases the risk of inefficient or even dangerous work being conducted? Especially if the government/business owner is not supporting the 'boots on the ground' worker with good resources. In trying not to argue to intensely here - obviously we have two different lines of thought and different priorities. " Well I'm not going to disagree with that, but there are other factors that have a bigger impact on productivity. | |||
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"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc
Have we.... I mean have they... OMG.....
Good old Dave,,,,,,
In fact, I thought the plan was to increase the minimum wage each year before the next election until it EXCEEDED the living wage espoused by Milliband at the last election.
Cornyn knows that, so I must admit I have dismissed this story as pointless, political, populist, posturing.
Unless I missed something
yep...... you do know the "national living wage" only applies to those over 25........
I explained this to my younger sister who isn't sure what or who is better and she responded sarcasticly, "So the government doesn't seem to think that under 25's are entitled to the same earnings? What about if they have a degree and debt to pay off? What about getting more money own for a house?"
Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal...
That was quite ignorant and narrow minded. You really think that a young woman who has a first in Chemistry would want to get a minimum wage job? I don't think you really understand the harsh reality which faces young people.
Jeez I'm not that fucking old! I graduated about 8 years ago, has it changed that much?
8 years ago, so you either graduated just before, after or during the 2008 crash? Yes, things have changed a lot since then. 8 years is plenty of time for less economically developed regions of a country to go from bad to worse in terms of job opportunities and job quality.
Pretty much during the crash. Twas not a fun job market I tell thee...
Undoubtedly. Which area of the UK were you in at the time? The fact is most career/graduate jobs which have been created in the UK are within London or the South East. Which is where the problem lies, how are motivated, ha workers meant to truly get on the career ladder.
I was in the south west at the time. Within a couple of years I moved to the south east because there were better opportunities. So unfortunately the answer is that you move to where the jobs are because if you wait for them to come to you, then you might wait your whole life.
Right okay, so here in comes another problem.
You tell this to someone who has more debt to pay off than you did, who after university has no savings, whose parents do not have the money spare to help you make that economic movement.
How do you think they will respond?
Additionally is this not something the government should tackle? The fact that there are people with good qualifications who are going to waste because the incorrect investment is being incorporated in the wrong regions?"Whose investments are we talking about now? The government already locates lots of its services in low income areas, DVLA for example. I don't see what the living wage or pay ratios has to do with where private companies chose to invest? | |||
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"So we have Corbynomics and Corbynism, but after the recent farce of the cabinet reshuffle (among other things) I've got a new one.......Corbynonsense. "That's all fine and dandy but lets face it, at least the reshuffle means that the majority of the Labour electorate are happy with how it strengthens Corbyn's stance. Additionally, the Tories promised the UK their proposal for the British bill of Rights to replace the human rights act. They said that it was something key in their manifesto, and we would see the proposal after 100 days of their majority leadership, yet after the 100 day bench mark and an extension we still see nothing? Poor show. Or no show. Or are the Tories shy because the EU has opposed the Bill along with the cuts to mental and physical disability acts? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc
Have we.... I mean have they... OMG.....
Good old Dave,,,,,,
In fact, I thought the plan was to increase the minimum wage each year before the next election until it EXCEEDED the living wage espoused by Milliband at the last election.
Cornyn knows that, so I must admit I have dismissed this story as pointless, political, populist, posturing.
Unless I missed something
yep...... you do know the "national living wage" only applies to those over 25........
I explained this to my younger sister who isn't sure what or who is better and she responded sarcasticly, "So the government doesn't seem to think that under 25's are entitled to the same earnings? What about if they have a degree and debt to pay off? What about getting more money own for a house?"
Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal...
That was quite ignorant and narrow minded. You really think that a young woman who has a first in Chemistry would want to get a minimum wage job? I don't think you really understand the harsh reality which faces young people.
Jeez I'm not that fucking old! I graduated about 8 years ago, has it changed that much?
8 years ago, so you either graduated just before, after or during the 2008 crash? Yes, things have changed a lot since then. 8 years is plenty of time for less economically developed regions of a country to go from bad to worse in terms of job opportunities and job quality.
Pretty much during the crash. Twas not a fun job market I tell thee...
Undoubtedly. Which area of the UK were you in at the time? The fact is most career/graduate jobs which have been created in the UK are within London or the South East. Which is where the problem lies, how are motivated, ha workers meant to truly get on the career ladder.
I was in the south west at the time. Within a couple of years I moved to the south east because there were better opportunities. So unfortunately the answer is that you move to where the jobs are because if you wait for them to come to you, then you might wait your whole life.
Right okay, so here in comes another problem.
You tell this to someone who has more debt to pay off than you did, who after university has no savings, whose parents do not have the money spare to help you make that economic movement.
How do you think they will respond?
Additionally is this not something the government should tackle? The fact that there are people with good qualifications who are going to waste because the incorrect investment is being incorporated in the wrong regions?
Whose investments are we talking about now? The government already locates lots of its services in low income areas, DVLA for example. I don't see what the living wage or pay ratios has to do with where private companies chose to invest? "It's not about that directly. My point towards that is that the tories promised to secure better private business investment in poorer areas. Yet there has been little move forward with this. If they fulfilled this there would be more jobs available - specifically career jobs in regions which lack then. Then the issue of poor work life ratios can be addressed. | |||
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"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc
Have we.... I mean have they... OMG.....
Good old Dave,,,,,,
In fact, I thought the plan was to increase the minimum wage each year before the next election until it EXCEEDED the living wage espoused by Milliband at the last election.
Cornyn knows that, so I must admit I have dismissed this story as pointless, political, populist, posturing.
Unless I missed something
yep...... you do know the "national living wage" only applies to those over 25........
I explained this to my younger sister who isn't sure what or who is better and she responded sarcasticly, "So the government doesn't seem to think that under 25's are entitled to the same earnings? What about if they have a degree and debt to pay off? What about getting more money own for a house?"
Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal...
That was quite ignorant and narrow minded. You really think that a young woman who has a first in Chemistry would want to get a minimum wage job? I don't think you really understand the harsh reality which faces young people.
Jeez I'm not that fucking old! I graduated about 8 years ago, has it changed that much?
8 years ago, so you either graduated just before, after or during the 2008 crash? Yes, things have changed a lot since then. 8 years is plenty of time for less economically developed regions of a country to go from bad to worse in terms of job opportunities and job quality.
Pretty much during the crash. Twas not a fun job market I tell thee...
Undoubtedly. Which area of the UK were you in at the time? The fact is most career/graduate jobs which have been created in the UK are within London or the South East. Which is where the problem lies, how are motivated, ha workers meant to truly get on the career ladder.
I was in the south west at the time. Within a couple of years I moved to the south east because there were better opportunities. So unfortunately the answer is that you move to where the jobs are because if you wait for them to come to you, then you might wait your whole life.
Right okay, so here in comes another problem.
You tell this to someone who has more debt to pay off than you did, who after university has no savings, whose parents do not have the money spare to help you make that economic movement.
How do you think they will respond?
Additionally is this not something the government should tackle? The fact that there are people with good qualifications who are going to waste because the incorrect investment is being incorporated in the wrong regions?
Whose investments are we talking about now? The government already locates lots of its services in low income areas, DVLA for example. I don't see what the living wage or pay ratios has to do with where private companies chose to invest?
It's not about that directly. My point towards that is that the tories promised to secure better private business investment in poorer areas. Yet there has been little move forward with this. If they fulfilled this there would be more jobs available - specifically career jobs in regions which lack then.
Then the issue of poor work life ratios can be addressed."OK that was a stupid promise to make then, but this is a thread about JC not the Tories. There's a whole load of evidence that governments cannot perform that function, except in the very long term. That is to say that the evidence shows that big companies who locate in an area for some government subsidy tend to leave as soon as the subsidy ends. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc
Have we.... I mean have they... OMG.....
Good old Dave,,,,,,
In fact, I thought the plan was to increase the minimum wage each year before the next election until it EXCEEDED the living wage espoused by Milliband at the last election.
Cornyn knows that, so I must admit I have dismissed this story as pointless, political, populist, posturing.
Unless I missed something
yep...... you do know the "national living wage" only applies to those over 25........
I explained this to my younger sister who isn't sure what or who is better and she responded sarcasticly, "So the government doesn't seem to think that under 25's are entitled to the same earnings? What about if they have a degree and debt to pay off? What about getting more money own for a house?"
Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal...
That was quite ignorant and narrow minded. You really think that a young woman who has a first in Chemistry would want to get a minimum wage job? I don't think you really understand the harsh reality which faces young people.
Jeez I'm not that fucking old! I graduated about 8 years ago, has it changed that much?
8 years ago, so you either graduated just before, after or during the 2008 crash? Yes, things have changed a lot since then. 8 years is plenty of time for less economically developed regions of a country to go from bad to worse in terms of job opportunities and job quality.
Pretty much during the crash. Twas not a fun job market I tell thee...
Undoubtedly. Which area of the UK were you in at the time? The fact is most career/graduate jobs which have been created in the UK are within London or the South East. Which is where the problem lies, how are motivated, ha workers meant to truly get on the career ladder.
I was in the south west at the time. Within a couple of years I moved to the south east because there were better opportunities. So unfortunately the answer is that you move to where the jobs are because if you wait for them to come to you, then you might wait your whole life.
Right okay, so here in comes another problem.
You tell this to someone who has more debt to pay off than you did, who after university has no savings, whose parents do not have the money spare to help you make that economic movement.
How do you think they will respond?
Additionally is this not something the government should tackle? The fact that there are people with good qualifications who are going to waste because the incorrect investment is being incorporated in the wrong regions?
Whose investments are we talking about now? The government already locates lots of its services in low income areas, DVLA for example. I don't see what the living wage or pay ratios has to do with where private companies chose to invest?
It's not about that directly. My point towards that is that the tories promised to secure better private business investment in poorer areas. Yet there has been little move forward with this. If they fulfilled this there would be more jobs available - specifically career jobs in regions which lack then.
Then the issue of poor work life ratios can be addressed.
OK that was a stupid promise to make then, but this is a thread about JC not the Tories. There's a whole load of evidence that governments cannot perform that function, except in the very long term. That is to say that the evidence shows that big companies who locate in an area for some government subsidy tend to leave as soon as the subsidy ends. "nobody mentioned subsidy .... anyway there are other more positive carrots to encourage investment in underdeveloped regions .... or sticks for that matter | |||
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"That is to say that the evidence shows that big companies who locate in an area for some government subsidy tend to leave as soon as the subsidy ends. nobody mentioned subsidy .... anyway there are other more positive carrots to encourage investment in underdeveloped regions .... or sticks for that matter" Well I'd be genuinely interested to know what the non-subsidy carrots are? | |||
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"That is to say that the evidence shows that big companies who locate in an area for some government subsidy tend to leave as soon as the subsidy ends. nobody mentioned subsidy .... anyway there are other more positive carrots to encourage investment in underdeveloped regions .... or sticks for that matter Well I'd be genuinely interested to know what the non-subsidy carrots are? " infrastructure investment for one | |||
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"That is to say that the evidence shows that big companies who locate in an area for some government subsidy tend to leave as soon as the subsidy ends. nobody mentioned subsidy .... anyway there are other more positive carrots to encourage investment in underdeveloped regions .... or sticks for that matter Well I'd be genuinely interested to know what the non-subsidy carrots are? infrastructure investment for one" Sure but i'd put that under my category of long term factors. Besides isn't that was HS2 is about? | |||
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"That is to say that the evidence shows that big companies who locate in an area for some government subsidy tend to leave as soon as the subsidy ends. nobody mentioned subsidy .... anyway there are other more positive carrots to encourage investment in underdeveloped regions .... or sticks for that matter Well I'd be genuinely interested to know what the non-subsidy carrots are? infrastructure investment for one Sure but i'd put that under my category of long term factors. Besides isn't that was HS2 is about? " other capital projects are available | |||
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"That is to say that the evidence shows that big companies who locate in an area for some government subsidy tend to leave as soon as the subsidy ends. nobody mentioned subsidy .... anyway there are other more positive carrots to encourage investment in underdeveloped regions .... or sticks for that matter Well I'd be genuinely interested to know what the non-subsidy carrots are? infrastructure investment for one Sure but i'd put that under my category of long term factors. Besides isn't that was HS2 is about? " Hahaha you mean that with the amount of time and money it's taking the high-speed Birmingham to London rain for bankers and businessmen? Haha sorry, but where I'm from it's considered a waste of money | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience. From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? Agree, the major buyers in the market aren't holding the shares long enough to collect dividends anyway! Still a stupid policy though. Treat the disease not the symptoms. " "Treat the disease not the symptoms"? I had no idea that you were one of us... See you on the barricades, commrade! | |||
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" Well I'd be genuinely interested to know what the non-subsidy carrots are? " strict planning regs or even a moratorium on commercial premises in over developed areas is another | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience. From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? Agree, the major buyers in the market aren't holding the shares long enough to collect dividends anyway! Still a stupid policy though. Treat the disease not the symptoms. "Treat the disease not the symptoms"? I had no idea that you were one of us... See you on the barricades, commrade! "I'm not as right wing as you think! Executive pay is out of control but the problem is literally the process of how it is set. You don't keep the remuneration board but tell them what their decision needs to be. You get rid of the fucking remuneration board. Another problem is that most companies aren't properly owned by anyone holding their shares for more than 3 months. So owners aren't assessing senior managers the way they should. Thems the disease. | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience. From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? Agree, the major buyers in the market aren't holding the shares long enough to collect dividends anyway! Still a stupid policy though. Treat the disease not the symptoms. "Treat the disease not the symptoms"? I had no idea that you were one of us... See you on the barricades, commrade!
I'm not as right wing as you think! Executive pay is out of control but the problem is literally the process of how it is set. You don't keep the remuneration board but tell them what their decision needs to be. You get rid of the fucking remuneration board.
Another problem is that most companies aren't properly owned by anyone holding their shares for more than 3 months. So owners aren't assessing senior managers the way they should.
Thems the disease."Yes, you get rid of the renumeration board. Possibly to the salt mines. And you are correct, companies need to be properly owned by somebody, or rather, everybody. | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience. From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? Agree, the major buyers in the market aren't holding the shares long enough to collect dividends anyway! Still a stupid policy though. Treat the disease not the symptoms. "Treat the disease not the symptoms"? I had no idea that you were one of us... See you on the barricades, commrade!
I'm not as right wing as you think! Executive pay is out of control but the problem is literally the process of how it is set. You don't keep the remuneration board but tell them what their decision needs to be. You get rid of the fucking remuneration board.
Another problem is that most companies aren't properly owned by anyone holding their shares for more than 3 months. So owners aren't assessing senior managers the way they should.
Thems the disease."almost sounds like your advocating deviation from capitalism and enforcing regualtion by the state in lue of quality long term shareholders who have the balls to redress the imbalance in the agent principle theory then? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience. From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? Agree, the major buyers in the market aren't holding the shares long enough to collect dividends anyway! Still a stupid policy though. Treat the disease not the symptoms. "Treat the disease not the symptoms"? I had no idea that you were one of us... See you on the barricades, commrade!
I'm not as right wing as you think! Executive pay is out of control but the problem is literally the process of how it is set. You don't keep the remuneration board but tell them what their decision needs to be. You get rid of the fucking remuneration board.
Another problem is that most companies aren't properly owned by anyone holding their shares for more than 3 months. So owners aren't assessing senior managers the way they should.
Thems the disease.
almost sounds like your advocating deviation from capitalism and enforcing regualtion by the state in lue of quality long term shareholders who have the balls to redress the imbalance in the agent principle theory then?"Good regulation is an essential part of capitalism, even Milton Friedman admitted as much (reluctantly). However, our regulators have not been up to scratch | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience. From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? Agree, the major buyers in the market aren't holding the shares long enough to collect dividends anyway! Still a stupid policy though. Treat the disease not the symptoms. "Treat the disease not the symptoms"? I had no idea that you were one of us... See you on the barricades, commrade!
I'm not as right wing as you think! Executive pay is out of control but the problem is literally the process of how it is set. You don't keep the remuneration board but tell them what their decision needs to be. You get rid of the fucking remuneration board.
Another problem is that most companies aren't properly owned by anyone holding their shares for more than 3 months. So owners aren't assessing senior managers the way they should.
Thems the disease.
almost sounds like your advocating deviation from capitalism and enforcing regualtion by the state in lue of quality long term shareholders who have the balls to redress the imbalance in the agent principle theory then?
Good regulation is an essential part of capitalism, even Milton Friedman admitted as much (reluctantly). However, our regulators have not been up to scratch "that's monetarism .... monetarism isn't capitalism .... and so we deviate from capitalism to monetarism .... which poses the problem where do we draw the line on regulation, the answer to which nobody can decided and in the interim things get worse .... it's like driving a trabant from berlin to cardiff, it just keeps breaking down. basically if economists knew what they were doing there would be no problems would there .... but they don't have anything other than theories based on ideals really. they're all just as impotent as the next person. | |||
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"Capitalism can't live without regulation... It would just burn up and I mean proper burn up, not just some economic recession, then stifle for a few years then burn up again... That's it's nature because it's driven by humans!. Every one is wrong on this thread. There's nothing wrong with any system, it's human nature that you can't fit a system to, put 50 people on an island, no problem. Move another 50 in then another 50 .. Suddenly everyone's falling out.. Oh oh we need more land.. Land grab.. Yeah now we're fine.. Hang on now we're running out of stuff to use.. Back to falling out.. Hang on resource grab.. Now we're all on OK again.. Until.. The problem isn't the system, in fact the system not only plays on our fears for the best results in drive but the best results in human failings! I dunno the answer to be honest.. Probably buy somewhere quiet and wait for the dust to settle "that's a very long winded way of saying the theory of capitalism doesn't work isn't it | |||
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"Capitalism can't live without regulation... It would just burn up and I mean proper burn up, not just some economic recession, then stifle for a few years then burn up again... That's it's nature because it's driven by humans!. Every one is wrong on this thread. There's nothing wrong with any system, it's human nature that you can't fit a system to, put 50 people on an island, no problem. Move another 50 in then another 50 .. Suddenly everyone's falling out.. Oh oh we need more land.. Land grab.. Yeah now we're fine.. Hang on now we're running out of stuff to use.. Back to falling out.. Hang on resource grab.. Now we're all on OK again.. Until.. The problem isn't the system, in fact the system not only plays on our fears for the best results in drive but the best results in human failings! I dunno the answer to be honest.. Probably buy somewhere quiet and wait for the dust to settle
that's a very long winded way of saying the theory of capitalism doesn't work isn't it". In a way, yeah. It's gonna fail, everything fails, it's just a matter of time | |||
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"Capitalism can't live without regulation... It would just burn up and I mean proper burn up, not just some economic recession, then stifle for a few years then burn up again... That's it's nature because it's driven by humans!. Every one is wrong on this thread. There's nothing wrong with any system, it's human nature that you can't fit a system to, put 50 people on an island, no problem. Move another 50 in then another 50 .. Suddenly everyone's falling out.. Oh oh we need more land.. Land grab.. Yeah now we're fine.. Hang on now we're running out of stuff to use.. Back to falling out.. Hang on resource grab.. Now we're all on OK again.. Until.. The problem isn't the system, in fact the system not only plays on our fears for the best results in drive but the best results in human failings! I dunno the answer to be honest.. Probably buy somewhere quiet and wait for the dust to settle
that's a very long winded way of saying the theory of capitalism doesn't work isn't it"Its basically the premise of anarchism, really (although I am aware that anarchists can't agree entirely on the premise of anarchism).. | |||
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"Capitalism can't live without regulation... It would just burn up and I mean proper burn up, not just some economic recession, then stifle for a few years then burn up again... That's it's nature because it's driven by humans!. Every one is wrong on this thread. There's nothing wrong with any system, it's human nature that you can't fit a system to, put 50 people on an island, no problem. Move another 50 in then another 50 .. Suddenly everyone's falling out.. Oh oh we need more land.. Land grab.. Yeah now we're fine.. Hang on now we're running out of stuff to use.. Back to falling out.. Hang on resource grab.. Now we're all on OK again.. Until.. The problem isn't the system, in fact the system not only plays on our fears for the best results in drive but the best results in human failings! I dunno the answer to be honest.. Probably buy somewhere quiet and wait for the dust to settle
that's a very long winded way of saying the theory of capitalism doesn't work isn't it.
In a way, yeah.
It's gonna fail, everything fails, it's just a matter of time"it's been failing since 1776 | |||
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"The nature of law is that things fail. Your constantly fighting that!" Entropy and regime change... | |||
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"Capitalism can't live without regulation... It would just burn up and I mean proper burn up, not just some economic recession, then stifle for a few years then burn up again... That's it's nature because it's driven by humans!. Every one is wrong on this thread. There's nothing wrong with any system, it's human nature that you can't fit a system to, put 50 people on an island, no problem. Move another 50 in then another 50 .. Suddenly everyone's falling out.. Oh oh we need more land.. Land grab.. Yeah now we're fine.. Hang on now we're running out of stuff to use.. Back to falling out.. Hang on resource grab.. Now we're all on OK again.. Until.. The problem isn't the system, in fact the system not only plays on our fears for the best results in drive but the best results in human failings! I dunno the answer to be honest.. Probably buy somewhere quiet and wait for the dust to settle
that's a very long winded way of saying the theory of capitalism doesn't work isn't it.
In a way, yeah.
It's gonna fail, everything fails, it's just a matter of time
it's been failing since 1776". Lol I wouldn't blame everything on the birth of the US, sure they've done shit stuff but who hasn't, I think the stuff that came out of the birth of that country out weigh the negatives. Read anything by Jefferson. I think if you want honest capitalism then you have to start with having honest money! Start there and add on some good regulation... At least it will give you a head start before the rest catch up and start meddling | |||
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"The nature of law is that things fail. Your constantly fighting that! Entropy and regime change... ".entropy is Natural law, it's just the way things are | |||
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"Capitalism can't live without regulation... It would just burn up and I mean proper burn up, not just some economic recession, then stifle for a few years then burn up again... That's it's nature because it's driven by humans!. Every one is wrong on this thread. There's nothing wrong with any system, it's human nature that you can't fit a system to, put 50 people on an island, no problem. Move another 50 in then another 50 .. Suddenly everyone's falling out.. Oh oh we need more land.. Land grab.. Yeah now we're fine.. Hang on now we're running out of stuff to use.. Back to falling out.. Hang on resource grab.. Now we're all on OK again.. Until.. The problem isn't the system, in fact the system not only plays on our fears for the best results in drive but the best results in human failings! I dunno the answer to be honest.. Probably buy somewhere quiet and wait for the dust to settle
that's a very long winded way of saying the theory of capitalism doesn't work isn't it.
In a way, yeah.
It's gonna fail, everything fails, it's just a matter of time
it's been failing since 1776.
Lol I wouldn't blame everything on the birth of the US, sure they've done shit stuff but who hasn't, I think the stuff that came out of the birth of that country out weigh the negatives.
Read anything by Jefferson.
I think if you want honest capitalism then you have to start with having honest money!
Start there and add on some good regulation... At least it will give you a head start before the rest catch up and start meddling"other significant historical occurences are available .... in other words i didn't mean america by that | |||
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"The nature of law is that things fail. Your constantly fighting that! Entropy and regime change... .entropy is
Natural law, it's just the way things are
"atrophy autocorrect for entropy | |||
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"natural law .... another misnomer .... a law in this sense is summut that's proven, natural law is just another theory based on a philosophical ideal, so is not a law " A biologist writes: Nature doesn't have laws anyway, as soon as you think something is an absolute, you'll find some plant or creature that defies it. | |||
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"natural law .... another misnomer .... a law in this sense is summut that's proven, natural law is just another theory based on a philosophical ideal, so is not a law A biologist writes: Nature doesn't have laws anyway, as soon as you think something is an absolute, you'll find some plant or creature that defies it. " pretty accurate ..... sorta like if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck ... it's a platypus | |||
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"Although I belong on the other side of the political divide.... I'll give Corbyn his due...... His intention to restrict large companies from issuing dividends and management bonus until all employees of that company are paid at least the minimum wage seems a very reasonable proposal.... ... "If only his other proposals, we're quite so reasonable.  | |||
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"Although I belong on the other side of the political divide.... I'll give Corbyn his due...... His intention to restrict large companies from issuing dividends and management bonus until all employees of that company are paid at least the minimum wage seems a very reasonable proposal.... ...
If only his other proposals,
we're quite so reasonable.
"Can you name any of his unreasonable proposals? | |||
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"Although I belong on the other side of the political divide.... I'll give Corbyn his due...... His intention to restrict large companies from issuing dividends and management bonus until all employees of that company are paid at least the minimum wage seems a very reasonable proposal.... ...
If only his other proposals,
we're quite so reasonable.
Can you name any of his unreasonable proposals?"He's a hippy,more suited to running the students union,than the country. Yet he's unreasonable enough to propose he runs the country. That's a biggy. And I'm a labour supporter. | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience. From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? Agree, the major buyers in the market aren't holding the shares long enough to collect dividends anyway! Still a stupid policy though. Treat the disease not the symptoms. "Treat the disease not the symptoms"? I had no idea that you were one of us... See you on the barricades, commrade!
I'm not as right wing as you think! Executive pay is out of control but the problem is literally the process of how it is set. You don't keep the remuneration board but tell them what their decision needs to be. You get rid of the fucking remuneration board.
Another problem is that most companies aren't properly owned by anyone holding their shares for more than 3 months. So owners aren't assessing senior managers the way they should.
Thems the disease.". Executive pay s a very insignificant amount of a companies expense . In any event directors renumeration has to be approved by shareholders . What most shareholders are iinterested in is the long term performance of a company , not what the directors are paid . You have to be a truely exceptional person to become a director or a FTSE 100 company . Most shareholders hold their shares for years and have the opportunity to vote at agms . | |||
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"natural law .... another misnomer .... a law in this sense is summut that's proven, natural law is just another theory based on a philosophical ideal, so is not a law " . Lol don't let me confuse the situation. Entropy is a law. I just see it as a natural occurrence. Like life and death... It just happens | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience. From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? Agree, the major buyers in the market aren't holding the shares long enough to collect dividends anyway! Still a stupid policy though. Treat the disease not the symptoms. "Treat the disease not the symptoms"? I had no idea that you were one of us... See you on the barricades, commrade!
I'm not as right wing as you think! Executive pay is out of control but the problem is literally the process of how it is set. You don't keep the remuneration board but tell them what their decision needs to be. You get rid of the fucking remuneration board.
Another problem is that most companies aren't properly owned by anyone holding their shares for more than 3 months. So owners aren't assessing senior managers the way they should.
Thems the disease.. Executive pay s a very insignificant amount of a companies expense . In any event directors renumeration has to be approved by shareholders .
What most shareholders are iinterested in is the long term performance of a company , not what the directors are paid .
You have to be a truely exceptional person to become a director or a FTSE 100 company .
Most shareholders hold their shares for years and have the opportunity to vote at agms . ". That's just a common belief that's in reality bollocks!. Share prices today do not reflect the performance of the company in 97% of cases. Just look at any bank... How the fuck do you value a company that's effectually insolvent as worth billions?... It's called short termism.. There's money to be made tomorrow Nobody gives a rats arse about next year, certainly not a board member or stock trader.. Fuck me if they were actually bothered about long term profits, do you really think the banks would be where they are today?. You talk about pension companies as if they give a shit... Nobody gives a shit, it's about how much money you make this year.. If that's going to bankrupt your pension pot in five years or ten years... That's your hard luck. I mean you constantly slag off governments for screwing you over... Then just hand over your money to a pension firm.. As if they've got more morals lol. | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience. From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? Agree, the major buyers in the market aren't holding the shares long enough to collect dividends anyway! Still a stupid policy though. Treat the disease not the symptoms. "Treat the disease not the symptoms"? I had no idea that you were one of us... See you on the barricades, commrade!
I'm not as right wing as you think! Executive pay is out of control but the problem is literally the process of how it is set. You don't keep the remuneration board but tell them what their decision needs to be. You get rid of the fucking remuneration board.
Another problem is that most companies aren't properly owned by anyone holding their shares for more than 3 months. So owners aren't assessing senior managers the way they should.
Thems the disease.. Executive pay s a very insignificant amount of a companies expense . In any event directors renumeration has to be approved by shareholders .
What most shareholders are iinterested in is the long term performance of a company , not what the directors are paid .
You have to be a truely exceptional person to become a director or a FTSE 100 company .
Most shareholders hold their shares for years and have the opportunity to vote at agms . .
That's just a common belief that's in reality bollocks!.
Share prices today do not reflect the performance of the company in 97% of cases.
Just look at any bank... How the fuck do you value a company that's effectually insolvent as worth billions?... It's called short termism..
There's money to be made tomorrow
Nobody gives a rats arse about next year, certainly not a board member or stock trader..
Fuck me if they were actually bothered about long term profits, do you really think the banks would be where they are today?.
You talk about pension companies as if they give a shit...
Nobody gives a shit, it's about how much money you make this year.. If that's going to bankrupt your pension pot in five years or ten years... That's your hard luck.
I mean you constantly slag off governments for screwing you over... Then just hand over your money to a pension firm.. As if they've got more morals lol.
". Lots of companies and directors care about both next year and the future , otherwise they would not engage in capital expenditure projects. The pension companies have to act in a responsible manner, otherwise people would not invest their pension funds in them.. Some of the banks have repaid their bail out money and are on the road to recovery . Private shareholders also care about the long term future of the companies inwhich they invest. Construction ximpanies hold land banks because they care about the future . Companies such as Tesco operate loyalty schemes because they care sbout thr future . Car manufacturers invest in new cars because they care about the future. In ahirt anyone with a sense of reaponsibility will care about the future.. | |||
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"Although I belong on the other side of the political divide.... I'll give Corbyn his due...... His intention to restrict large companies from issuing dividends and management bonus until all employees of that company are paid at least the minimum wage seems a very reasonable proposal.... ...
If only his other proposals,
we're quite so reasonable.
Can you name any of his unreasonable proposals?
He's a hippy,more suited to running the students union,than the country.
Yet he's unreasonable enough to propose he runs the country.
That's a biggy.
And I'm a labour supporter.
"No, I didn't think you actually knew any. People who 'criticise' Corbyn's polices very rarely have any idea of what they are. | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience. From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? Agree, the major buyers in the market aren't holding the shares long enough to collect dividends anyway! Still a stupid policy though. Treat the disease not the symptoms. "Treat the disease not the symptoms"? I had no idea that you were one of us... See you on the barricades, commrade!
I'm not as right wing as you think! Executive pay is out of control but the problem is literally the process of how it is set. You don't keep the remuneration board but tell them what their decision needs to be. You get rid of the fucking remuneration board.
Another problem is that most companies aren't properly owned by anyone holding their shares for more than 3 months. So owners aren't assessing senior managers the way they should.
Thems the disease.. Executive pay s a very insignificant amount of a companies expense . In any event directors renumeration has to be approved by shareholders .
What most shareholders are iinterested in is the long term performance of a company , not what the directors are paid .
You have to be a truely exceptional person to become a director or a FTSE 100 company .
Most shareholders hold their shares for years and have the opportunity to vote at agms . .
That's just a common belief that's in reality bollocks!.
Share prices today do not reflect the performance of the company in 97% of cases.
Just look at any bank... How the fuck do you value a company that's effectually insolvent as worth billions?... It's called short termism..
There's money to be made tomorrow
Nobody gives a rats arse about next year, certainly not a board member or stock trader..
Fuck me if they were actually bothered about long term profits, do you really think the banks would be where they are today?.
You talk about pension companies as if they give a shit...
Nobody gives a shit, it's about how much money you make this year.. If that's going to bankrupt your pension pot in five years or ten years... That's your hard luck.
I mean you constantly slag off governments for screwing you over... Then just hand over your money to a pension firm.. As if they've got more morals lol.
. Lots of companies and directors care about both next year and the future , otherwise they would not engage in capital expenditure projects.
The pension companies have to act in a responsible manner, otherwise people would not invest their pension funds in them..
Some of the banks have repaid their bail out money and are on the road to recovery .
Private shareholders also care about the long term future of the companies inwhich they invest.
Construction ximpanies hold land banks because they care about the future .
Companies such as Tesco operate loyalty schemes because they care sbout thr future .
Car manufacturers invest in new cars because they care about the future.
In ahirt anyone with a sense of reaponsibility will care about the future.."Tesco operate loyalty card schemes because they care about the future?!?!?!? Pat, you don't half come out with some ripe ones, I'll give you that! | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience. From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? Agree, the major buyers in the market aren't holding the shares long enough to collect dividends anyway! Still a stupid policy though. Treat the disease not the symptoms. "Treat the disease not the symptoms"? I had no idea that you were one of us... See you on the barricades, commrade!
I'm not as right wing as you think! Executive pay is out of control but the problem is literally the process of how it is set. You don't keep the remuneration board but tell them what their decision needs to be. You get rid of the fucking remuneration board.
Another problem is that most companies aren't properly owned by anyone holding their shares for more than 3 months. So owners aren't assessing senior managers the way they should.
Thems the disease.. Executive pay s a very insignificant amount of a companies expense . In any event directors renumeration has to be approved by shareholders .
What most shareholders are iinterested in is the long term performance of a company , not what the directors are paid .
You have to be a truely exceptional person to become a director or a FTSE 100 company .
Most shareholders hold their shares for years and have the opportunity to vote at agms . .
That's just a common belief that's in reality bollocks!.
Share prices today do not reflect the performance of the company in 97% of cases.
Just look at any bank... How the fuck do you value a company that's effectually insolvent as worth billions?... It's called short termism..
There's money to be made tomorrow
Nobody gives a rats arse about next year, certainly not a board member or stock trader..
Fuck me if they were actually bothered about long term profits, do you really think the banks would be where they are today?.
You talk about pension companies as if they give a shit...
Nobody gives a shit, it's about how much money you make this year.. If that's going to bankrupt your pension pot in five years or ten years... That's your hard luck.
I mean you constantly slag off governments for screwing you over... Then just hand over your money to a pension firm.. As if they've got more morals lol.
. Lots of companies and directors care about both next year and the future , otherwise they would not engage in capital expenditure projects.
The pension companies have to act in a responsible manner, otherwise people would not invest their pension funds in them..
Some of the banks have repaid their bail out money and are on the road to recovery .
Private shareholders also care about the long term future of the companies inwhich they invest.
Construction ximpanies hold land banks because they care about the future .
Companies such as Tesco operate loyalty schemes because they care sbout thr future .
Car manufacturers invest in new cars because they care about the future.
In ahirt anyone with a sense of reaponsibility will care about the future..
Tesco operate loyalty card schemes because they care about the future?!?!?!?
Pat, you don't half come out with some ripe ones, I'll give you that! ". Any loyalty card scheme will be designed to help the future of the company . The objective will usually be to maximise sales / profits and keep customers happy. | |||
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"Is it really so unreasonable of government to make life a bit easier for people at the bottom?" tell you what ... you can have the moon on a stick instead ... will that do? | |||
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"Is it really so unreasonable of government to make life a bit easier for people at the bottom? tell you what ... you can have the moon on a stick instead ... will that do?" Why not? How is it unreasonable to ask those at the top to subsidise those at the bottom? I say a fascinating news item today about a village in Wales where the shop keepers had banded together to set themselves up as an offshore trust or something to avoid tax - just like the big firms do - as a protest to Osborne for clobbering the poor whilst letting the rich do what they like. Seems reasonable to me. | |||
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"Is it really so unreasonable of government to make life a bit easier for people at the bottom?" No,but it's unreasonable to become leader of the labour party,in the knowledge that very fact,will win the torries the next election. | |||
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"i like him . he speaks his mind politics desperately needs more people like him " Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! He'd make a good philosophy lecturer though. | |||
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"i like him . he speaks his mind politics desperately needs more people like him Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! He'd make a good philosophy lecturer though. " Both Obbo and D-Cam have had no experience of life beyond public schools and being political bag carriers. What gives them the right? | |||
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"i like him . he speaks his mind politics desperately needs more people like him Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! He'd make a good philosophy lecturer though. Both Obbo and D-Cam have had no experience of life beyond public schools and being political bag carriers. What gives them the right?" The electorate ? | |||
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"i like him . he speaks his mind politics desperately needs more people like him Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! He'd make a good philosophy lecturer though. Both Obbo and D-Cam have had no experience of life beyond public schools and being political bag carriers. What gives them the right? The electorate ?" No - the point was over experience and suitability to lead... Not whether the Conservatives romped home with 36% of the electorate behind them... What about the other 64% who didn't vote Tory? Hmmm? | |||
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"i like him . he speaks his mind politics desperately needs more people like him Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! He'd make a good philosophy lecturer though. Both Obbo and D-Cam have had no experience of life beyond public schools and being political bag carriers. What gives them the right? The electorate ?" Nope, wrong guess. | |||
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"i like him . he speaks his mind politics desperately needs more people like him Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! He'd make a good philosophy lecturer though. Both Obbo and D-Cam have had no experience of life beyond public schools and being political bag carriers. What gives them the right?" Cam has a little bit of work experience but who said I liked him anyway? Get David fucking Milliband over here already - oh you can't? Would that be because he's already got a better job since the trade unions fucked him. | |||
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"i like him . he speaks his mind politics desperately needs more people like him Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! He'd make a good philosophy lecturer though. Both Obbo and D-Cam have had no experience of life beyond public schools and being political bag carriers. What gives them the right? Cam has a little bit of work experience but who said I liked him anyway? Get David fucking Milliband over here already - oh you can't? Would that be because he's already got a better job since the trade unions fucked him. " Two Eds and two Millibands and they got the wrong combination. D'oh! | |||
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"i like him . he speaks his mind politics desperately needs more people like him Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! He'd make a good philosophy lecturer though. Both Obbo and D-Cam have had no experience of life beyond public schools and being political bag carriers. What gives them the right? The electorate ? No - the point was over experience and suitability to lead... Not whether the Conservatives romped home with 36% of the electorate behind them... What about the other 64% who didn't vote Tory? Hmmm?" Well I'm sorry if a democratic vote isn't good enough for you. Next time shall we go for an undemocratic way of doing things ? | |||
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"Well I'm sorry if a democratic vote isn't good enough for you. Next time shall we go for an undemocratic way of doing things ?" I'm just saying our method of democracy isn't very democratic. And anyway, the question wasn't about that... | |||
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"Well I'm sorry if a democratic vote isn't good enough for you. Next time shall we go for an undemocratic way of doing things ? I'm just saying our method of democracy isn't very democratic. And anyway, the question wasn't about that..." I know, I've joined in half way through without reading the full thread. My apologies. I don't even like Cameron , I just wanted to join in. | |||
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"Well I'm sorry if a democratic vote isn't good enough for you. Next time shall we go for an undemocratic way of doing things ? I'm just saying our method of democracy isn't very democratic. And anyway, the question wasn't about that..." Didn't realise you were so upset about all those seats UKIP could have gotten under PR... | |||
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"i like him . he speaks his mind politics desperately needs more people like him Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! He'd make a good philosophy lecturer though. Both Obbo and D-Cam have had no experience of life beyond public schools and being political bag carriers. What gives them the right? Cam has a little bit of work experience but who said I liked him anyway? Get David fucking Milliband over here already - oh you can't? Would that be because he's already got a better job since the trade unions fucked him. " That's a convenient right-wing red herring. Oh if only David had stood... yeah right they'd have found just as many silly insults and as much playground shit to throw at Dave as they did Ed. They'd still have creamed their pants over the disgusting hatchet job on Ralph Miliband. | |||
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"i like him . he speaks his mind politics desperately needs more people like him Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! He'd make a good philosophy lecturer though. Both Obbo and D-Cam have had no experience of life beyond public schools and being political bag carriers. What gives them the right? Cam has a little bit of work experience but who said I liked him anyway? Get David fucking Milliband over here already - oh you can't? Would that be because he's already got a better job since the trade unions fucked him. That's a convenient right-wing red herring. Oh if only David had stood... yeah right they'd have found just as many silly insults and as much playground shit to throw at Dave as they did Ed. They'd still have creamed their pants over the disgusting hatchet job on Ralph Miliband. " I'm gonna need a translation service for that one? Are you saying David Milliband is right wing or that he didn't get f'd in the a? | |||
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"i like him . he speaks his mind politics desperately needs more people like him Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! He'd make a good philosophy lecturer though. Both Obbo and D-Cam have had no experience of life beyond public schools and being political bag carriers. What gives them the right? The electorate ? No - the point was over experience and suitability to lead... Not whether the Conservatives romped home with 36% of the electorate behind them... What about the other 64% who didn't vote Tory? Hmmm?" I do think it's about time we modernised and had a proportional representation system now in this country in general elections instead of first past the post. Incidently if we had proportional representation at the last election we would now most likely have a tory/ukip coalition, and at least Farage has had a real job working out in the real world outside of politics. 4 million votes and only 1 mp for Ukip, Around 2 million votes for the SNP and over 30 mp's, 1.5 Million votes for the greens and only 1 mp. Our electoral system is broken no wonder so many people are disillusioned with politics these days. | |||
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"i like him . he speaks his mind politics desperately needs more people like him Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! He'd make a good philosophy lecturer though. Both Obbo and D-Cam have had no experience of life beyond public schools and being political bag carriers. What gives them the right? The electorate ? No - the point was over experience and suitability to lead... Not whether the Conservatives romped home with 36% of the electorate behind them... What about the other 64% who didn't vote Tory? Hmmm? I do think it's about time we modernised and had a proportional representation system now in this country in general elections instead of first past the post. Incidently if we had proportional representation at the last election we would now most likely have a tory/ukip coalition, and at least Farage has had a real job working out in the real world outside of politics. 4 million votes and only 1 mp for Ukip, Around 2 million votes for the SNP and over 30 mp's, 1.5 Million votes for the greens and only 1 mp. Our electoral system is broken no wonder so many people are disillusioned with politics these days. " Exactly, this is what got Joe so worked up about it... | |||
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"Our electoral system is broken no wonder so many people are disillusioned with politics these days. " We finally agree on something | |||
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"Exactly, this is what got Joe so worked up about it... " I think you'll find I've had a wonderful shag this evening and if I were any more relaxed I'd slip in to a coma | |||
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"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc
Have we.... I mean have they... OMG.....
Good old Dave,,,,,,
In fact, I thought the plan was to increase the minimum wage each year before the next election until it EXCEEDED the living wage espoused by Milliband at the last election.
Cornyn knows that, so I must admit I have dismissed this story as pointless, political, populist, posturing.
Unless I missed something
yep...... you do know the "national living wage" only applies to those over 25........
I explained this to my younger sister who isn't sure what or who is better and she responded sarcasticly, "So the government doesn't seem to think that under 25's are entitled to the same earnings? What about if they have a degree and debt to pay off? What about getting more money own for a house?"
Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal...
That was quite ignorant and narrow minded. You really think that a young woman who has a first in Chemistry would want to get a minimum wage job? I don't think you really understand the harsh reality which faces young people.
Jeez I'm not that fucking old! I graduated about 8 years ago, has it changed that much?
8 years ago, so you either graduated just before, after or during the 2008 crash? Yes, things have changed a lot since then. 8 years is plenty of time for less economically developed regions of a country to go from bad to worse in terms of job opportunities and job quality."And this time, right here and now, is worse than it's ever been? Should have been around in the eighties. Or then again, the seventies and the 3 day week. | |||
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"Our electoral system is broken no wonder so many people are disillusioned with politics these days. We finally agree on something "I like it. Keeps the crazies out. I for one do not want any representation for supporters of BNP / EDL / Britain First or whatever other stupid names they want to give to groups who dress racism up as politics. I don't include UKIP in that though and they got screwed at the last election, at least they have something in common with David Milliband though. | |||
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"But haven't the Tories effectively done that already? (Curséd Tories, actually quietly getting it done, rather than militantly moaning from the barricades....)
Mr ddc
Have we.... I mean have they... OMG.....
Good old Dave,,,,,,
In fact, I thought the plan was to increase the minimum wage each year before the next election until it EXCEEDED the living wage espoused by Milliband at the last election.
Cornyn knows that, so I must admit I have dismissed this story as pointless, political, populist, posturing.
Unless I missed something
yep...... you do know the "national living wage" only applies to those over 25........
I explained this to my younger sister who isn't sure what or who is better and she responded sarcasticly, "So the government doesn't seem to think that under 25's are entitled to the same earnings? What about if they have a degree and debt to pay off? What about getting more money own for a house?"
Tell your sister to aim for a job that isn't minimum / living wage then. Your user name would imply you are educating yourself, presumably with the same goal...
That was quite ignorant and narrow minded. You really think that a young woman who has a first in Chemistry would want to get a minimum wage job? I don't think you really understand the harsh reality which faces young people.
Jeez I'm not that fucking old! I graduated about 8 years ago, has it changed that much?
8 years ago, so you either graduated just before, after or during the 2008 crash? Yes, things have changed a lot since then. 8 years is plenty of time for less economically developed regions of a country to go from bad to worse in terms of job opportunities and job quality.
And this time, right here and now, is worse than it's ever been? Should have been around in the eighties. Or then again, the seventies and the 3 day week. "Good point, well made. I wasn't born in the 70's (thankfully) but everything I've heard about it sounds very very shit... | |||
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" I for one do not want any representation for supporters of BNP / EDL / Britain First or whatever other stupid names they want to give to groups who dress racism up as politics. I don't include UKIP in that though and they got screwed at the last election, at least they have something in common with David Milliband though. " What makes you think supporters of BNP/EDL/BF don't vote UKIP? | |||
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" 4 million votes and only 1 mp for Ukip, Around 2 million votes for the SNP and over 30 mp's, . " excuse me for debunking of the great Ukip myths their supporters like to put about..... 1) p.s its 56 mp's the SNP have.... 2) your UKip fascination and comparison is flawed as it doesn't take into account that the SNP only put up candidates in 10% of the UK seats ( you know... those ones in scotland!!) so the correct comparison would be 4 million ukip votes out of a voting population of 30 million who did vote... compared to the SNP who got 1.5 million votes from a voting population of 2.8 million
see.... that's called "context"..... | |||
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"Well I'm sorry if a democratic vote isn't good enough for you. Next time shall we go for an undemocratic way of doing things ? I'm just saying our method of democracy isn't very democratic. And anyway, the question wasn't about that... Didn't realise you were so upset about all those seats UKIP could have gotten under PR... " And all the seats the SNP and Labour wouldn't have got! | |||
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" 4 million votes and only 1 mp for Ukip, Around 2 million votes for the SNP and over 30 mp's, . excuse me for debunking of the great Ukip myths their supporters like to put about..... 1) p.s its 56 mp's the SNP have.... 2) your UKip fascination and comparison is flawed as it doesn't take into account that the SNP only put up candidates in 10% of the UK seats ( you know... those ones in scotland!!) so the correct comparison would be 4 million ukip votes out of a voting population of 30 million who did vote... compared to the SNP who got 1.5 million votes from a voting population of 2.8 million
see.... that's called "context"....."It does help if once again you actually read what I wrote (you seem to have developed a habit of misreading my posts). I did say over 30 mp's for the SNP, not sure how your maths is but I make 56 to be over 30 is it not? | |||
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" 4 million votes and only 1 mp for Ukip, Around 2 million votes for the SNP and over 30 mp's, . excuse me for debunking of the great Ukip myths their supporters like to put about..... 1) p.s its 56 mp's the SNP have.... 2) your UKip fascination and comparison is flawed as it doesn't take into account that the SNP only put up candidates in 10% of the UK seats ( you know... those ones in scotland!!) so the correct comparison would be 4 million ukip votes out of a voting population of 30 million who did vote... compared to the SNP who got 1.5 million votes from a voting population of 2.8 million
see.... that's called "context"....."But it was for seats at a National Assembly so that makes the original figures correct | |||
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"i like him . he speaks his mind politics desperately needs more people like him Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! He'd make a good philosophy lecturer though. Both Obbo and D-Cam have had no experience of life beyond public schools and being political bag carriers. What gives them the right?" . If he went to public school he would have mixed with some very successfull people and would appreciate the importance of achieving things in life. In addition he will be more likely to be highly educated and make informed decisions . | |||
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"Is it really so unreasonable of government to make life a bit easier for people at the bottom? tell you what ... you can have the moon on a stick instead ... will that do? Why not? How is it unreasonable to ask those at the top to subsidise those at the bottom? I say a fascinating news item today about a village in Wales where the shop keepers had banded together to set themselves up as an offshore trust or something to avoid tax - just like the big firms do - as a protest to Osborne for clobbering the poor whilst letting the rich do what they like. Seems reasonable to me." . How can the rich do what they like ?. They have to adhere to the same laws as everyone else and pay a lot more tax than those on lower incomes . | |||
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"Is it really so unreasonable of government to make life a bit easier for people at the bottom? tell you what ... you can have the moon on a stick instead ... will that do? Why not? How is it unreasonable to ask those at the top to subsidise those at the bottom? I say a fascinating news item today about a village in Wales where the shop keepers had banded together to set themselves up as an offshore trust or something to avoid tax - just like the big firms do - as a protest to Osborne for clobbering the poor whilst letting the rich do what they like. Seems reasonable to me.. How can the rich do what they like ?. They have to adhere to the same laws as everyone else and pay a lot more tax than those on lower incomes ." Because the poorer can afford to get in the best financial consultants to abuse every tax loophole can't they!! If you really think that even middle sized companies pay the amount of tax they'd be liable to, if they also didn't use tax loopholes, you very gullible! I know 2 lads who run reasonably successful companies and both have their wives on wages and pensions whilst not working for them, company fuel cards etc etc all smallish things but the poor don't do stuff like that | |||
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"Is it really so unreasonable of government to make life a bit easier for people at the bottom? tell you what ... you can have the moon on a stick instead ... will that do? Why not? How is it unreasonable to ask those at the top to subsidise those at the bottom? I say a fascinating news item today about a village in Wales where the shop keepers had banded together to set themselves up as an offshore trust or something to avoid tax - just like the big firms do - as a protest to Osborne for clobbering the poor whilst letting the rich do what they like. Seems reasonable to me.. How can the rich do what they like ?. They have to adhere to the same laws as everyone else and pay a lot more tax than those on lower incomes . Because the poorer can afford to get in the best financial consultants to abuse every tax loophole can't they!! If you really think that even middle sized companies pay the amount of tax they'd be liable to, if they also didn't use tax loopholes, you very gullible! I know 2 lads who run reasonably successful companies and both have their wives on wages and pensions whilst not working for them, company fuel cards etc etc all smallish things but the poor don't do stuff like that" The tax 'loopholes' are part of the legal machinations of our tax system. In exactly the same way as the tax allowance is, in effect, a loophole. I have an uncle, hasn't worked for over 20 years. Knows every scam going. His house is in his son's name, and he rents it off him...gets his rent paid by the taxpayer. He has all the latest gadgets, top of the range TV, goes on holiday twice a year, drives a good car. He knows every single benefits loophole going (and then some), and gets the equivalent of about £35K before tax - about £16.20 per hour for a working man - about 2.5 times the minimum wage, and a third more than the average wage. So, over 20 years, at today's rate of benefits, he has got the equivalent of £700,000 from the taxpayer. Or, after tax... £520,000. And he's the first to complain about people abusing the tax system. As a taxpayer, for my taxes to support him personally to that degree, I would have to earn in the region of £100K p.a. Everyone knows someone who 'takes the piss', from both sides of the fence (working or benefits). That's life, unfortunately. | |||
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" Seems reasonable to me.. How can the rich do what they like ?. They have to adhere to the same laws as everyone else and pay a lot more tax than those on lower incomes ." You really believe that? | |||
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" Seems reasonable to me.. How can the rich do what they like ?. They have to adhere to the same laws as everyone else and pay a lot more tax than those on lower incomes . You really believe that? "its called delusion.. | |||
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"i like him . he speaks his mind politics desperately needs more people like him Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! He'd make a good philosophy lecturer though. Both Obbo and D-Cam have had no experience of life beyond public schools and being political bag carriers. What gives them the right?. If he went to public school he would have mixed with some very successfull people and would appreciate the importance of achieving things in life. In addition he will be more likely to be highly educated and make informed decisions . " Your clearly not talking about Cameron based on his track record thus far.. | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience." Good job the other guys are in then. Friendly to new economies like China where shares plummet....pension funds suffer - oh bugger | |||
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"Is it really so unreasonable of government to make life a bit easier for people at the bottom? tell you what ... you can have the moon on a stick instead ... will that do? Why not? How is it unreasonable to ask those at the top to subsidise those at the bottom? I say a fascinating news item today about a village in Wales where the shop keepers had banded together to set themselves up as an offshore trust or something to avoid tax - just like the big firms do - as a protest to Osborne for clobbering the poor whilst letting the rich do what they like. Seems reasonable to me.. How can the rich do what they like ?. They have to adhere to the same laws as everyone else and pay a lot more tax than those on lower incomes . Because the poorer can afford to get in the best financial consultants to abuse every tax loophole can't they!! If you really think that even middle sized companies pay the amount of tax they'd be liable to, if they also didn't use tax loopholes, you very gullible! I know 2 lads who run reasonably successful companies and both have their wives on wages and pensions whilst not working for them, company fuel cards etc etc all smallish things but the poor don't do stuff like that" . I don't think many directors of companies would want to risk being sent to prison for not paying sufficient tax . There is a big difference between tax evasion and tax planning which ensures that you use every allowance available . | |||
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"But what about all the people who work for companies, organisations, charities, public sector etc.etc. who are not listed on the stock exchange? The minimum wage wage is enough for them, but not enough for someone who works for a listed company? Surely its better to simply raise the minimum wage than closely watch every listed company to see if any employee is paid less than the living wage and then take punitive action against them? " And the current government already has plans/legislation in place to do this over the life of this parliament. So Corbyns statement was just another political sound bite in reality.... It will be redundant by 2020 if, by any chance, he would ever be in a position to implement. | |||
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"Have those who love the Tories heard that, last night, just 17 MPs sat on a committee to discuss and abolish the maintenance grant for the poorest students????" Most committees have less members.....it is not a parliamentary debate. The committee has members from a number of parties. But I am totally against this proposal. | |||
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"Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! Get David fucking Milliband over here already " yeah .... because daves 25 years experience as a bricklayer would be useful 
what fucking job has dave milliband ever had other than politics? he fucked things up before, what makes you think he wouldn't fuck things up again? | |||
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"Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! Get David fucking Milliband over here already yeah .... because daves 25 years experience as a bricklayer would be useful
what fucking job has dave milliband ever had other than politics? he fucked things up before, what makes you think he wouldn't fuck things up again?"Let's see, he's CEO of an NGO managing assets of $155m. JC was asked on question time about what he's ever run and he completely dodged the question. | |||
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"I started another thread in this....sounds great on paper but as most companies are multinational, or at least competing in a multinational arena how would it be enforced. Pretty sure it would break EU competition rules. No dividends means investors pull out, company goes bust, everyone looses jobs. Pension funds (yours and mine) get hit as share prices plummet.....another brilliant idea...but shows his total lack of grasp of reality. Another politician (on both sides) with no actual work experience. From an economic /market pint of view - lack of dividends would not necessarily leading to people selling off. You evaluate the share price and divvies. If share price is up, why would you sell ? Agree, the major buyers in the market aren't holding the shares long enough to collect dividends anyway! Still a stupid policy though. Treat the disease not the symptoms. "Treat the disease not the symptoms"? I had no idea that you were one of us... See you on the barricades, commrade!
I'm not as right wing as you think! Executive pay is out of control but the problem is literally the process of how it is set. You don't keep the remuneration board but tell them what their decision needs to be. You get rid of the fucking remuneration board.
Another problem is that most companies aren't properly owned by anyone holding their shares for more than 3 months. So owners aren't assessing senior managers the way they should.
Thems the disease.. Executive pay s a very insignificant amount of a companies expense . In any event directors renumeration has to be approved by shareholders .
What most shareholders are iinterested in is the long term performance of a company , not what the directors are paid .
You have to be a truely exceptional person to become a director or a FTSE 100 company .
Most shareholders hold their shares for years and have the opportunity to vote at agms . .
That's just a common belief that's in reality bollocks!.
Share prices today do not reflect the performance of the company in 97% of cases.
Just look at any bank... How the fuck do you value a company that's effectually insolvent as worth billions?... It's called short termism..
There's money to be made tomorrow
Nobody gives a rats arse about next year, certainly not a board member or stock trader..
Fuck me if they were actually bothered about long term profits, do you really think the banks would be where they are today?.
You talk about pension companies as if they give a shit...
Nobody gives a shit, it's about how much money you make this year.. If that's going to bankrupt your pension pot in five years or ten years... That's your hard luck.
I mean you constantly slag off governments for screwing you over... Then just hand over your money to a pension firm.. As if they've got more morals lol.
. Lots of companies and directors care about both next year and the future , otherwise they would not engage in capital expenditure projects.
The pension companies have to act in a responsible manner, otherwise people would not invest their pension funds in them..
Some of the banks have repaid their bail out money and are on the road to recovery .
Private shareholders also care about the long term future of the companies inwhich they invest.
Construction ximpanies hold land banks because they care about the future .
Companies such as Tesco operate loyalty schemes because they care sbout thr future .
Car manufacturers invest in new cars because they care about the future.
In ahirt anyone with a sense of reaponsibility will care about the future..". Pat, you seem like a nice bloke!. I think what we have here is a failure to communicate... Construction companies hold land banks primarily to stop rivals building houses and crashing the market price. Some of the banks have repaid there bail out money???. And have they repaid the QE we borrowed them at practically nothing!... All they've done is repay one loan by borrowing another loan. It's not unique to the UK either.. No the fed the bank of Nippon the bank of England, the euro bank.. There all insolvent now, have been for 6 years!.. Has anyone seen the balance sheet of these central banks! Think about that alone, we borrow money to people based on their ability to pay it back, BANKS BANKS of all the fucking people get it at 0.5%... Hello look at their fucking credit history!! What we've done is just start a financial apartheid.. Those who can borrow at nothing And those who have to pay 5/6/7/8% And those who have to pay at 2000% I remember reading a book by Keynes that clearly thought that people would have tonnes of free time by 2020 because production would have gone up something like 7x or 8x.. Productivity has done exactly what he thought. But for 40 years now wages have flat lined or gone down!. Just to make this clear.. Capitalism didn't fail, it was quietly manipulated from above so that the rich profited more than the poor... This is exactly what you'd expect someone at the top to do, I really don't understand why people find it shocking!. High taxes cripple industry.. Investment.. Wrong the 50s and 60s saw record investment while top level tax was between 70 and 90% It doesn't stop investment, it causes it as wealthy people look to invest rather that pay 70% tax It's exactly the same with CT imo although people I admire have argued different.. A Higher CT forced companies to push profit into investment because they didn't want to pay the tax on profit!. And on one final note about the nonessence that only brilliant board members get big money. Enrons ken lay Bernard Madoff Allen Stanford Fred the shred from rbs The list is endless of incompetent fucking idiots of business geniuses held in high regard of their short termisim!. And let's not forget apple sacked the "greatest CEO" | |||
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"Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! Get David fucking Milliband over here already yeah .... because daves 25 years experience as a bricklayer would be useful
what fucking job has dave milliband ever had other than politics? he fucked things up before, what makes you think he wouldn't fuck things up again?
Let's see, he's CEO of an NGO managing assets of $155m. JC was asked on question time about what he's ever run and he completely dodged the question. "two and a half years where he divides his attention between being ceo of "thunderbirds" and "the office of david miliband limited" ..... now that's a huge amount of work experience in a real job .... what a laff! | |||
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" And on one final note about the nonessence that only brilliant board members get big money. Enrons ken lay Bernard Madoff Allen Stanford Fred the shred from rbs The list is endless of incompetent fucking idiots of business geniuses held in high regard of their short termisim!. And let's not forget apple sacked the "greatest CEO" "Yay, I love lists. You missed some: Robert Merton & Myron Scholes - Long Term Capital Management Carl Fiorina - HP (yes, she's running for president) Bernard Ebbers - WorldCom James Keyes - Blockbuster Then there was that idiot at bank of America but I can't remember his name | |||
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"Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! Get David fucking Milliband over here already yeah .... because daves 25 years experience as a bricklayer would be useful
what fucking job has dave milliband ever had other than politics? he fucked things up before, what makes you think he wouldn't fuck things up again?
Let's see, he's CEO of an NGO managing assets of $155m. JC was asked on question time about what he's ever run and he completely dodged the question.
two and a half years where he divides his attention between being ceo of "thunderbirds" and "the office of david miliband limited" ..... now that's a huge amount of work experience in a real job .... what a laff!". The primary job is to implement legislation and oversee regulation to make things better for the people who elect them. They don't need to run things or be business geniuses, just let businesses be businesses, innovation and productivity gains come from businesses HAVING to innovate, that means putting regulation IN their way not out of it. If you've got it really easy borrowing at nothing... Why would you spend your time worrying about how to innovate and get productivity higher? You wouldn't really would you, you'd just borrow the money at a cost of nothing and buy back your own shares, forcing the stock up and your wages at the same time! Well that's what I'd do. | |||
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"Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! Get David fucking Milliband over here already yeah .... because daves 25 years experience as a bricklayer would be useful
what fucking job has dave milliband ever had other than politics? he fucked things up before, what makes you think he wouldn't fuck things up again?
Let's see, he's CEO of an NGO managing assets of $155m. JC was asked on question time about what he's ever run and he completely dodged the question.
two and a half years where he divides his attention between being ceo of "thunderbirds" and "the office of david miliband limited" ..... now that's a huge amount of work experience in a real job .... what a laff!"OK great, we both agree we want Politicians with even more work experience than David Milliband. Guess you won't be voting for Corbyn then! | |||
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"Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! Get David fucking Milliband over here already yeah .... because daves 25 years experience as a bricklayer would be useful
what fucking job has dave milliband ever had other than politics? he fucked things up before, what makes you think he wouldn't fuck things up again?
Let's see, he's CEO of an NGO managing assets of $155m. JC was asked on question time about what he's ever run and he completely dodged the question.
two and a half years where he divides his attention between being ceo of "thunderbirds" and "the office of david miliband limited" ..... now that's a huge amount of work experience in a real job .... what a laff!.
The primary job is to implement legislation and oversee regulation to make things better for the people who elect them.
They don't need to run things or be business geniuses, just let businesses be businesses, innovation and productivity gains come from businesses HAVING to innovate, that means putting regulation IN their way not out of it.
If you've got it really easy borrowing at nothing... Why would you spend your time worrying about how to innovate and get productivity higher?
You wouldn't really would you, you'd just borrow the money at a cost of nothing and buy back your own shares, forcing the stock up and your wages at the same time!
Well that's what I'd do."You don't think they should understand the context they are legislating!? Every time Ed Milliband or Corbyn talk about the economy, they sound like they are reading from a (bad) text book on the subject. They serve up cringe worth plasters to go on broken legs, because they fundamentally don't understand the cause of the problems. | |||
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" And on one final note about the nonessence that only brilliant board members get big money. Enrons ken lay Bernard Madoff Allen Stanford Fred the shred from rbs The list is endless of incompetent fucking idiots of business geniuses held in high regard of their short termisim!. And let's not forget apple sacked the "greatest CEO"
Yay, I love lists. You missed some:
Robert Merton & Myron Scholes - Long Term Capital Management
Carl Fiorina - HP (yes, she's running for president)
Bernard Ebbers - WorldCom
James Keyes - Blockbuster
Then there was that idiot at bank of America but I can't remember his name". What gets me, is you look at the US treasury and its chocka block with ex bankers from Goldman Sachs... As if these people are fucking wunderkids, financial gurus,shitting money making ideas constantly... They couldn't even foresee the greatest failure in 80 years, the collapse of their own industry!!!. I mean your working in it all day and you couldn't see it coming! That's OK here have a job at the treasury | |||
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"Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! Get David fucking Milliband over here already yeah .... because daves 25 years experience as a bricklayer would be useful
what fucking job has dave milliband ever had other than politics? he fucked things up before, what makes you think he wouldn't fuck things up again?
Let's see, he's CEO of an NGO managing assets of $155m. JC was asked on question time about what he's ever run and he completely dodged the question.
two and a half years where he divides his attention between being ceo of "thunderbirds" and "the office of david miliband limited" ..... now that's a huge amount of work experience in a real job .... what a laff!.
The primary job is to implement legislation and oversee regulation to make things better for the people who elect them.
They don't need to run things or be business geniuses, just let businesses be businesses, innovation and productivity gains come from businesses HAVING to innovate, that means putting regulation IN their way not out of it.
If you've got it really easy borrowing at nothing... Why would you spend your time worrying about how to innovate and get productivity higher?
You wouldn't really would you, you'd just borrow the money at a cost of nothing and buy back your own shares, forcing the stock up and your wages at the same time!
Well that's what I'd do."again ..... that's not capitalism then, that's monetarism ... a different animal. | |||
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" And on one final note about the nonessence that only brilliant board members get big money. Enrons ken lay Bernard Madoff Allen Stanford Fred the shred from rbs The list is endless of incompetent fucking idiots of business geniuses held in high regard of their short termisim!. And let's not forget apple sacked the "greatest CEO"
Yay, I love lists. You missed some:
Robert Merton & Myron Scholes - Long Term Capital Management
Carl Fiorina - HP (yes, she's running for president)
Bernard Ebbers - WorldCom
James Keyes - Blockbuster
Then there was that idiot at bank of America but I can't remember his name.
What gets me, is you look at the US treasury and its chocka block with ex bankers from Goldman Sachs... As if these people are fucking wunderkids, financial gurus,shitting money making ideas constantly... They couldn't even foresee the greatest failure in 80 years, the collapse of their own industry!!!.
I mean your working in it all day and you couldn't see it coming!
That's OK here have a job at the treasury "You're generally considered somewhere between awful and below average in the business world... be President of the United States | |||
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"Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! Get David fucking Milliband over here already yeah .... because daves 25 years experience as a bricklayer would be useful
what fucking job has dave milliband ever had other than politics? he fucked things up before, what makes you think he wouldn't fuck things up again?
Let's see, he's CEO of an NGO managing assets of $155m. JC was asked on question time about what he's ever run and he completely dodged the question.
two and a half years where he divides his attention between being ceo of "thunderbirds" and "the office of david miliband limited" ..... now that's a huge amount of work experience in a real job .... what a laff!.
The primary job is to implement legislation and oversee regulation to make things better for the people who elect them.
They don't need to run things or be business geniuses, just let businesses be businesses, innovation and productivity gains come from businesses HAVING to innovate, that means putting regulation IN their way not out of it.
If you've got it really easy borrowing at nothing... Why would you spend your time worrying about how to innovate and get productivity higher?
You wouldn't really would you, you'd just borrow the money at a cost of nothing and buy back your own shares, forcing the stock up and your wages at the same time!
Well that's what I'd do.
again ..... that's not capitalism then, that's monetarism ... a different animal."It's not at all, monterarism is just supply-side economics as advocated by Friedman, Thatcher and Greenspan. On what planet do you think they aren't capitalists? | |||
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"Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! Get David fucking Milliband over here already yeah .... because daves 25 years experience as a bricklayer would be useful
what fucking job has dave milliband ever had other than politics? he fucked things up before, what makes you think he wouldn't fuck things up again?
Let's see, he's CEO of an NGO managing assets of $155m. JC was asked on question time about what he's ever run and he completely dodged the question.
two and a half years where he divides his attention between being ceo of "thunderbirds" and "the office of david miliband limited" ..... now that's a huge amount of work experience in a real job .... what a laff!
OK great, we both agree we want Politicians with even more work experience than David Milliband. Guess you won't be voting for Corbyn then! "i haven't voted for labour nor will i ..... i won't vote tory or liberal or green or ukip either. and i'd like to see less ex-ceo types in politics if we have to have politics at all. | |||
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"Politics desperately needs people with experience in real jobs! Get David fucking Milliband over here already yeah .... because daves 25 years experience as a bricklayer would be useful
what fucking job has dave milliband ever had other than politics? he fucked things up before, what makes you think he wouldn't fuck things up again?
Let's see, he's CEO of an NGO managing assets of $155m. JC was asked on question time about what he's ever run and he completely dodged the question. "And George Osborne's experience of running a business before being an MP was folding towels in Harrods. Cameron's experience was collecting a fat cheque in a vanity position at a media company that he only got because his millionaire wife's millionaire mother fixed it up for him as a favour with her millionaire pal Michael Green. The truth is that Corbyn has more real world and work experience than the people running our country today. Union work is real work. Dealing with the issues that face workers is real work. He'll make a fine prime minister in 2020. | |||
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