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nhs walkouts
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
That is frustrating for you. I hope you are seen soon.
Both sides need to reach some sort of agreement.
I have been lucky and my emergency appointment has come through two days after seeing my GP. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's a joke. Doctors on strike? Let's forget the point of student loans, years not working but studying, having it easy... OK so studying is hard. ..I get it but after the studies you have a few years graft ahead of you to pay your stamp and your dues back to society... Junior docs don't make out your hard done by! It 1p years time you'll be 30 odd with a top wage bracket working half days! Yes you've got it hard.. in reality you've had it easy for 7 years previous! Drives me bonkers lol! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's a joke. Doctors on strike? Let's forget the point of student loans, years not working but studying, having it easy... OK so studying is hard. ..I get it but after the studies you have a few years graft ahead of you to pay your stamp and your dues back to society... Junior docs don't make out your hard done by! It 1p years time you'll be 30 odd with a top wage bracket working half days! Yes you've got it hard.. in reality you've had it easy for 7 years previous! Drives me bonkers lol!"
They work 80 or 90 hr weeks
They don't sit in dorm rooms smoking gear |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"It's a joke. Doctors on strike? Let's forget the point of student loans, years not working but studying, having it easy... OK so studying is hard. ..I get it but after the studies you have a few years graft ahead of you to pay your stamp and your dues back to society... Junior docs don't make out your hard done by! It 1p years time you'll be 30 odd with a top wage bracket working half days! Yes you've got it hard.. in reality you've had it easy for 7 years previous! Drives me bonkers lol!"
Have you seen what medical students have to do before they become junior doctors working 80 hours a week?
I'd rather a fresh happy doctor dealing with my surgery than a tired one pissed off with the system.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's a joke. Doctors on strike? Let's forget the point of student loans, years not working but studying, having it easy... OK so studying is hard. ..I get it but after the studies you have a few years graft ahead of you to pay your stamp and your dues back to society... Junior docs don't make out your hard done by! It 1p years time you'll be 30 odd with a top wage bracket working half days! Yes you've got it hard.. in reality you've had it easy for 7 years previous! Drives me bonkers lol!
Have you seen what medical students have to do before they become junior doctors working 80 hours a week?
I'd rather a fresh happy doctor dealing with my surgery than a tired one pissed off with the system.
"
Noooo it was one of those think with typing rather than without typing lol I'd hate to be a doctor, rather just have a good time instead! I'm grateful for doctors especially the hospital ones! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If anyone for one moment believes that junior doctors "have it easy", they are either ignorant or deliberately being obtuse.
I really don't see the point of labouring the argument here, as there are so many critisms, misinformed views and downright lies in the public domain - but I guarantee there is not one single doctor in the NHS who wants to strike, and we all feel empathy for those who have had cancellations (alhough 3 times is unbelievably bad luck) and yet the support for action is almost unanimous. That tells it's own story.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's a joke. Doctors on strike? Let's forget the point of student loans, years not working but studying, having it easy... OK so studying is hard. ..I get it but after the studies you have a few years graft ahead of you to pay your stamp and your dues back to society... Junior docs don't make out your hard done by! It 1p years time you'll be 30 odd with a top wage bracket working half days! Yes you've got it hard.. in reality you've had it easy for 7 years previous! Drives me bonkers lol!"
Don't believe everything you read in the papers. Half days? The only doctor I know who works half days is 63 and it's because he's retired. Being a doctor is well paid as a job, as all highly skilled professions which require many years of training and have responsibility for people's lives should be. It's not unreasonable to expect to be well paid for that. It's the politics of envy at its worst.
After the first couple of years medical students spend their degree time on placements in hospitals, not down the pub. Kinda like working, while paying for the privilege. Although the strikes aren't about student loans so I'm not really sure where that part of your ill informed little rant came from. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's a joke. Doctors on strike? Let's forget the point of student loans, years not working but studying, having it easy... OK so studying is hard. ..I get it but after the studies you have a few years graft ahead of you to pay your stamp and your dues back to society... Junior docs don't make out your hard done by! It 1p years time you'll be 30 odd with a top wage bracket working half days! Yes you've got it hard.. in reality you've had it easy for 7 years previous! Drives me bonkers lol!"
My girlfriend qualified as a junior Doctor a few years ago. My best friend is in the process of doing her placements.
Both work around 70 hours a week. Sometimes more. This is unsafe.
Plus they're looking at their pay just being cut by around 25%. These are highly skilled people. They cannot work anywhere but the nhs (you can't realistically work privately until you are a consultant). They have no other choice, if they want to be doctors they have to work for the nhs. And the nhs has decided to change the terms and cut their pay after seven years (or more - my partner and my best friend each have two degrees) of study.
It really is no wonder that suicide rates amongst junior doctors are so high. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's a joke. Doctors on strike? Let's forget the point of student loans, years not working but studying, having it easy... OK so studying is hard. ..I get it but after the studies you have a few years graft ahead of you to pay your stamp and your dues back to society... Junior docs don't make out your hard done by! It 1p years time you'll be 30 odd with a top wage bracket working half days! Yes you've got it hard.. in reality you've had it easy for 7 years previous! Drives me bonkers lol!"
And this really boils my piss as you clearly haven't got a clue.
My daughter is in her second year in hospital after 5 years at Edinburgh University....still studying for exams that would fry my head (I have a physics degree)....on top of working average 70+ hours per week which can include back to back 16 hour shifts.
She has student debt of over £45k and so far is not earning enough to be paying any of it back.
There are some weeks her pay actually doesn't technically meet the minimum wage!
This new contract will make it even worse as the current (so calked) limits on hours worked (which are being broken all over the place) will be removed completely.
If you want to lay the blame somewhere then look at NHS management and the "right Honorable" Jeremy (H)unt.....they should have started by negotiating a new contract....not imposing one and then being forced to negotiate....which they have not done in good faith..... Rant over...but just putting a bit of factual truth in there. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's a joke. Doctors on strike? Let's forget the point of student loans, years not working but studying, having it easy... OK so studying is hard. ..I get it but after the studies you have a few years graft ahead of you to pay your stamp and your dues back to society... Junior docs don't make out your hard done by! It 1p years time you'll be 30 odd with a top wage bracket working half days! Yes you've got it hard.. in reality you've had it easy for 7 years previous! Drives me bonkers lol!
Have you seen what medical students have to do before they become junior doctors working 80 hours a week?
I'd rather a fresh happy doctor dealing with my surgery than a tired one pissed off with the system.
Noooo it was one of those think with typing rather than without typing lol I'd hate to be a doctor, rather just have a good time instead! I'm grateful for doctors especially the hospital ones!"
Your getting battered now on the forum - taxi?! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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i dont know hats going on , maybe they should be trained for free ? maybe everyone training to become a part of our nhs system should be trained for free , or are they ? i dont know |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Alright ffs lol! So I made a bad opinion! Hang me on the cross and piss on me!"
Next time you judge people so harshly, try a quick google first. Like, 30 seconds of your time. Then decide if you want to rant.
(And also consider if you want an overworked, underpaid, and stressed junior Doctor treating your loved ones.) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Alright ffs lol! So I made a bad opinion! Hang me on the cross and piss on me!
Next time you judge people so harshly, try a quick google first. Like, 30 seconds of your time. Then decide if you want to rant.
(And also consider if you want an overworked, underpaid, and stressed junior Doctor treating your loved ones.)"
Oh get over it. It was a silly opinion. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Alright ffs lol! So I made a bad opinion! Hang me on the cross and piss on me!
Next time you judge people so harshly, try a quick google first. Like, 30 seconds of your time. Then decide if you want to rant.
(And also consider if you want an overworked, underpaid, and stressed junior Doctor treating your loved ones.)
Yeah. "Silly". Something that affects people's lives so seriously (like the OP) is silly. Junior doctors are fighting people like you with "silly" opinions every step of the way.
Oh get over it. It was a silly opinion. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Alright ffs lol! So I made a bad opinion! Hang me on the cross and piss on me!
Next time you judge people so harshly, try a quick google first. Like, 30 seconds of your time. Then decide if you want to rant.
(And also consider if you want an overworked, underpaid, and stressed junior Doctor treating your loved ones.)
Oh get over it. It was a silly opinion. "
Can't stand the heat? Think before you speak as my mum said
Don't worry - all is forgiven |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's a joke. Doctors on strike? Let's forget the point of student loans, years not working but studying, having it easy... OK so studying is hard. ..I get it but after the studies you have a few years graft ahead of you to pay your stamp and your dues back to society... Junior docs don't make out your hard done by! It 1p years time you'll be 30 odd with a top wage bracket working half days! Yes you've got it hard.. in reality you've had it easy for 7 years previous! Drives me bonkers lol!"
 .. So very wrong |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Guess we can clearly see where fab forum opinion lies!
If this is reflected by the General public then I hope Jeremy Cunt is listening. (Oops typo - honest!) |
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It,s not a new thing they new what they were doing when they wanted to be doctor,s yes junior doctor,s do get it rough very rough so do the nurse,s but the hospitals are are very much over staff in the admin side you go for an appointment how many are there doing nothing you go to the desk at reception you have got to wait while they finish there conversation all over there in groups just chatting or on there phone |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's a joke. Doctors on strike? Let's forget the point of student loans, years not working but studying, having it easy... OK so studying is hard. ..I get it but after the studies you have a few years graft ahead of you to pay your stamp and your dues back to society... Junior docs don't make out your hard done by! It 1p years time you'll be 30 odd with a top wage bracket working half days! Yes you've got it hard.. in reality you've had it easy for 7 years previous! Drives me bonkers lol!"
and the stupidest comment of the day goes to you
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Anyway, if any doctors need some stress relief and can supply their own scrubs.... 
I prefer consultants though 
Medical or Surgical?
"
Whichever colour suits them best  |
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"Sorry need to vent some frustration at this as its getting stupid this will be the 3rd time my operation has been cancelled because of a threat of strikes or actual strikes Grrr "
That must be horrible for you. I hope that you get another date through quickly and it goes ahead. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Guess we can clearly see where fab forum opinion lies!
If this is reflected by the General public then I hope Jeremy Cunt is listening. (Oops typo - honest!)"
On the other hand we trying to reduce the deficit or national debt
The credit card bill is too big |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It,s not a new thing they new what they were doing when they wanted to be doctor,s yes junior doctor,s do get it rough very rough so do the nurse,s but the hospitals are are very much over staff in the admin side you go for an appointment how many are there doing nothing you go to the desk at reception you have got to wait while they finish there conversation all over there in groups just chatting or on there phone "
You say they knew what they were doing when they wanted to become doctors, but you have to bear in mind that the majority of current trainees will have decided to become doctors at age 16. And there will be a current batch of fresh-faced first year medical students who don't know what to do when its THEIR training programme being altered. They've already started and as students, they have no rights to be balloted.
I dom't really understand the relevance of your point about admin staff. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Both work around 70 hours a week. Sometimes more. This is unsafe.
"
Finally, someone said it! Why on earth is it a good thing that they work 70-90 hours. Does anyone get on a plane being flown by a sleep deprived pilot?
The whole thing smacks of an idiotic employer that isn't organising their work force for the benefit of the patient.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's a joke. Doctors on strike? Let's forget the point of student loans, years not working but studying, having it easy... OK so studying is hard. ..I get it but after the studies you have a few years graft ahead of you to pay your stamp and your dues back to society... Junior docs don't make out your hard done by! It 1p years time you'll be 30 odd with a top wage bracket working half days! Yes you've got it hard.. in reality you've had it easy for 7 years previous! Drives me bonkers lol! and the stupidest comment of the day goes to you"
Fabicide? |
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Is there on here who would just accept a 25% pay cut and not strike? Honestly?
Doctors pay has been cut every year for nearly a decade at the same time as Australia, Canada, the US etc are more than happy to pay the going rate
The irony is the people trying to drive through the pay cut are those with private healthcare who are fine if the health service does collapse |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"
Both work around 70 hours a week. Sometimes more. This is unsafe.
Finally, someone said it! Why on earth is it a good thing that they work 70-90 hours. Does anyone get on a plane being flown by a sleep deprived pilot?
The whole thing smacks of an idiotic employer that isn't organising their work force for the benefit of the patient.
"
Unfortunately, they are supervised and dealing with a bunch of people who play the "I got through it so you should be able to" card. The only thing is that they fail to recognise that as medicine has moved on, there is more technology, there are more people to deal with and all of that is a very steep learning curve.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Both work around 70 hours a week. Sometimes more. This is unsafe.
Finally, someone said it! Why on earth is it a good thing that they work 70-90 hours. Does anyone get on a plane being flown by a sleep deprived pilot?
The whole thing smacks of an idiotic employer that isn't organising their work force for the benefit of the patient.
Unfortunately, they are supervised and dealing with a bunch of people who play the "I got through it so you should be able to" card. The only thing is that they fail to recognise that as medicine has moved on, there is more technology, there are more people to deal with and all of that is a very steep learning curve.
"
So basically a bunch of dinosaurs? It's terrible, we don't tolerate that shit in other industries! The only industry I can think of that thought sleep deprecation was cool and macho is banking and that turned out well.
While we're at it, nurses pay is exploitation. |
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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"It's a joke. Doctors on strike? Let's forget the point of student loans, years not working but studying, having it easy... OK so studying is hard. ..I get it but after the studies you have a few years graft ahead of you to pay your stamp and your dues back to society... Junior docs don't make out your hard done by! It 1p years time you'll be 30 odd with a top wage bracket working half days! Yes you've got it hard.. in reality you've had it easy for 7 years previous! Drives me bonkers lol!
They work 80 or 90 hr weeks
They don't sit in dorm rooms smoking gear "
That doesn't kick in until they become consultants.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's a joke. Doctors on strike? Let's forget the point of student loans, years not working but studying, having it easy... OK so studying is hard. ..I get it but after the studies you have a few years graft ahead of you to pay your stamp and your dues back to society... Junior docs don't make out your hard done by! It 1p years time you'll be 30 odd with a top wage bracket working half days! Yes you've got it hard.. in reality you've had it easy for 7 years previous! Drives me bonkers lol!
They work 80 or 90 hr weeks
They don't sit in dorm rooms smoking gear
That doesn't kick in until they become consultants.
"
Presumably they are well placed to weigh up the pros and cons of smoking it! |
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By *aeBabeWoman
over a year ago
London |
"
Both work around 70 hours a week. Sometimes more. This is unsafe.
Finally, someone said it! Why on earth is it a good thing that they work 70-90 hours. Does anyone get on a plane being flown by a sleep deprived pilot?
The whole thing smacks of an idiotic employer that isn't organising their work force for the benefit of the patient.
Unfortunately, they are supervised and dealing with a bunch of people who play the "I got through it so you should be able to" card. The only thing is that they fail to recognise that as medicine has moved on, there is more technology, there are more people to deal with and all of that is a very steep learning curve.
So basically a bunch of dinosaurs? It's terrible, we don't tolerate that shit in other industries! The only industry I can think of that thought sleep deprecation was cool and macho is banking and that turned out well.
While we're at it, nurses pay is exploitation. "
Yup... basically. You'd think that the government would want to attract students to chose careers in medicine or nursing, but a lot of my friends say, how can you do what you do for the amount you get paid? They'd rather work in retail. NOT that retail is bad or anything, just you aren't caring for the ill. Lots of people I know shift to private or agency. That doesn't help the NHS either. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Both work around 70 hours a week. Sometimes more. This is unsafe.
Finally, someone said it! Why on earth is it a good thing that they work 70-90 hours. Does anyone get on a plane being flown by a sleep deprived pilot?
The whole thing smacks of an idiotic employer that isn't organising their work force for the benefit of the patient.
Unfortunately, they are supervised and dealing with a bunch of people who play the "I got through it so you should be able to" card. The only thing is that they fail to recognise that as medicine has moved on, there is more technology, there are more people to deal with and all of that is a very steep learning curve.
So basically a bunch of dinosaurs? It's terrible, we don't tolerate that shit in other industries! The only industry I can think of that thought sleep deprecation was cool and macho is banking and that turned out well.
While we're at it, nurses pay is exploitation.
Yup... basically. You'd think that the government would want to attract students to chose careers in medicine or nursing, but a lot of my friends say, how can you do what you do for the amount you get paid? They'd rather work in retail. NOT that retail is bad or anything, just you aren't caring for the ill. Lots of people I know shift to private or agency. That doesn't help the NHS either."
In my opinion, this is one of those instances where gender comes into it. Nurses get a worse deal because some budget holders think they can squeeze them more, for a variety of stereotypes that I find displeasing to even mention. |
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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago
carrbrook stalybridge |
"Is there on here who would just accept a 25% pay cut and not strike? Honestly?
Doctors pay has been cut every year for nearly a decade at the same time as Australia, Canada, the US etc are more than happy to pay the going rate
The irony is the people trying to drive through the pay cut are those with private healthcare who are fine if the health service does collapse "
change it to when and the master plan will be revealed the slow privatisation of the nhs is taking place under our noses and to many are to blind to notice and will do nothing about it untill it is to late and we are stuck with an insurance based health care similar to the USA all administered for profit by the friends and paymasters of the current government most of whom are already directors of said company'
We reap what we sow and that is a two tear health system |
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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"It's a joke. Doctors on strike? Let's forget the point of student loans, years not working but studying, having it easy... OK so studying is hard. ..I get it but after the studies you have a few years graft ahead of you to pay your stamp and your dues back to society... Junior docs don't make out your hard done by! It 1p years time you'll be 30 odd with a top wage bracket working half days! Yes you've got it hard.. in reality you've had it easy for 7 years previous! Drives me bonkers lol!
They work 80 or 90 hr weeks
They don't sit in dorm rooms smoking gear
That doesn't kick in until they become consultants.
Presumably they are well placed to weigh up the pros and cons of smoking it! "
That's a wee bit of a,right hand,
left hand kind of thing.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is there on here who would just accept a 25% pay cut and not strike? Honestly?
Doctors pay has been cut every year for nearly a decade at the same time as Australia, Canada, the US etc are more than happy to pay the going rate
The irony is the people trying to drive through the pay cut are those with private healthcare who are fine if the health service does collapse change it to when and the master plan will be revealed the slow privatisation of the nhs is taking place under our noses and to many are to blind to notice and will do nothing about it untill it is to late and we are stuck with an insurance based health care similar to the USA all administered for profit by the friends and paymasters of the current government most of whom are already directors of said company'
We reap what we sow and that is a two tear health system "
No offence but I find US comparisons tiresome and unrepresentative. There are more than just two models of health care in the world and I have never heard anyone arguing the American system is particualy good or one alternative we want. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's a joke. Doctors on strike? Let's forget the point of student loans, years not working but studying, having it easy... OK so studying is hard. ..I get it but after the studies you have a few years graft ahead of you to pay your stamp and your dues back to society... Junior docs don't make out your hard done by! It 1p years time you'll be 30 odd with a top wage bracket working half days! Yes you've got it hard.. in reality you've had it easy for 7 years previous! Drives me bonkers lol!"
You don't know many medical students do you? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Today's news, the government plans to replace nurses bursaries with loans. Obviously they are living too well on £21k after training... "
Arguably, the student loans would be better for many nurses.
- It would, on average, result in each student having more free money to spent however they wanted (on things like accommodation and hobbies).
- It would mean that the universities could receive more money per student (they get small amounts currently from the grants, not as much as other students) so that they could deliver a better standard of training without 'borrowing' cash from other degree courses.
- More places could be offered to train nurses in the UK. Currently only around 1/3 of those applying to be nurses are given places on courses, so we have to import nurses from abroad to make up the short fall. This is bad for us (we could be training our own young people) and bad for the countries we recruit from (they need nurses too!). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Today's news, the government plans to replace nurses bursaries with loans. Obviously they are living too well on £21k after training...
Arguably, the student loans would be better for many nurses.
- It would, on average, result in each student having more free money to spent however they wanted (on things like accommodation and hobbies).
- It would mean that the universities could receive more money per student (they get small amounts currently from the grants, not as much as other students) so that they could deliver a better standard of training without 'borrowing' cash from other degree courses.
- More places could be offered to train nurses in the UK. Currently only around 1/3 of those applying to be nurses are given places on courses, so we have to import nurses from abroad to make up the short fall. This is bad for us (we could be training our own young people) and bad for the countries we recruit from (they need nurses too!)."
Thanks that was interesting, but won't it make it harder for people from poorer backgrounds to get into nursing? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I am 100% behind strike action, one of my friends is a known campaigner for junior Drs also.
For the poster who asked why do Drs work such hours when a lorry drive can't it's really very simple.
For instance a woman in a early labour say 30 weeks gives birth, the baby obviously needs help so the junior Drs (sho & registrar) are there. It's a hour to them finishing a night shift but they have a babies life to save!. They don't have the opportunity to pull into a lorry park or layby they stay looking after that child until it's stable enough to hand over to day staff.
When you are in the NHS environment it's a way of life like being in the forces of you don't see it that way it's not the right job for you.
Learning once you have become a junior dr doesn't stop there many then choose specialities which can take further years in house training with more exams all which they study supposedly in there own time this while maintaining a on shift rota of days right onto nights with 1 rest day between.
Until you get into the pay ladder of being a senior registrar the salary is less than say a ward matron, yet a matron is only in education (nursing) for 3 years.
For people like Jeremy cunt he needs to give 6 months of his time to walk the wards in the shoes of a junior dr see the shit they do and deal with the hours the Drs pull in on a weekly basis he might have a shock.
That man needs to apologise to families of junior Drs that have been killed driving home from a night shift and a on call ( yes a friend of mine died this way 4 months ago now) how his wife has coped with there 5 year old daughter explaining to her why daddy isn't coming home is beyond me and something I can't comprihend.
I hate Jeremy cunt with a passion he is destroying and will destroy our NHS. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Today's news, the government plans to replace nurses bursaries with loans. Obviously they are living too well on £21k after training...
Arguably, the student loans would be better for many nurses.
- It would, on average, result in each student having more free money to spent however they wanted (on things like accommodation and hobbies).
- It would mean that the universities could receive more money per student (they get small amounts currently from the grants, not as much as other students) so that they could deliver a better standard of training without 'borrowing' cash from other degree courses.
- More places could be offered to train nurses in the UK. Currently only around 1/3 of those applying to be nurses are given places on courses, so we have to import nurses from abroad to make up the short fall. This is bad for us (we could be training our own young people) and bad for the countries we recruit from (they need nurses too!).
Thanks that was interesting, but won't it make it harder for people from poorer backgrounds to get into nursing? "
Not really as no-one pays before or during training. The graduate repays AFTER they qualify and at a small percentage of salary OVER a basis of currently £21.5k.
So many will not be paying back anything for quite a while.
As any outstanding debt is cancelled after 25 years a substantial number of students will never pay off their debt...it will just be (at least partially if not all) cancelled. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Today's news, the government plans to replace nurses bursaries with loans. Obviously they are living too well on £21k after training...
Arguably, the student loans would be better for many nurses.
- It would, on average, result in each student having more free money to spent however they wanted (on things like accommodation and hobbies).
- It would mean that the universities could receive more money per student (they get small amounts currently from the grants, not as much as other students) so that they could deliver a better standard of training without 'borrowing' cash from other degree courses.
- More places could be offered to train nurses in the UK. Currently only around 1/3 of those applying to be nurses are given places on courses, so we have to import nurses from abroad to make up the short fall. This is bad for us (we could be training our own young people) and bad for the countries we recruit from (they need nurses too!).
Thanks that was interesting, but won't it make it harder for people from poorer backgrounds to get into nursing?
Not really as no-one pays before or during training. The graduate repays AFTER they qualify and at a small percentage of salary OVER a basis of currently £21.5k.
So many will not be paying back anything for quite a while.
As any outstanding debt is cancelled after 25 years a substantial number of students will never pay off their debt...it will just be (at least partially if not all) cancelled."
OK, understood, so why are they protesting it then!? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm a nurse and work along side junior doctors everyday. No one goes home on time. We are on our knees with exhaustion but we go home when the job is done. The being caring. We came into the job because we care not the salary. We accept the long hours some of which are unpaid and unrecognised. This country needs to show it's cares and back the doctors. Mr Cunt should be shown up to be the disgrace he is |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
OK, understood, so why are they protesting it then!? "
I'm not actually quite sure. I think many people don't understand how the student loan system works - I know some people on my degree don't understand how it works to be honest. That kind of financial maths is quite hard for a 17 year old to understand.
It's being protested by many old people who have gone into nursing as a second career. Basically Nursing is one of the only things you can get the government to pay for if you want to do a second degree. Although from this summer you will be able to get a student loan for a second degree in a STEM subject - and I would imagine that medical degrees will be classified as STEM.
But largely because I think people believe that education should be free. Because it was for my parents generation. But that's proven to be unsustainable - and actually not particularly desirable. People resent paying for education, even though education is fundamentally a business decision. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Today's news, the government plans to replace nurses bursaries with loans. Obviously they are living too well on £21k after training...
Arguably, the student loans would be better for many nurses.
- It would, on average, result in each student having more free money to spent however they wanted (on things like accommodation and hobbies).
- It would mean that the universities could receive more money per student (they get small amounts currently from the grants, not as much as other students) so that they could deliver a better standard of training without 'borrowing' cash from other degree courses.
- More places could be offered to train nurses in the UK. Currently only around 1/3 of those applying to be nurses are given places on courses, so we have to import nurses from abroad to make up the short fall. This is bad for us (we could be training our own young people) and bad for the countries we recruit from (they need nurses too!).
Thanks that was interesting, but won't it make it harder for people from poorer backgrounds to get into nursing?
Not really as no-one pays before or during training. The graduate repays AFTER they qualify and at a small percentage of salary OVER a basis of currently £21.5k.
So many will not be paying back anything for quite a while.
As any outstanding debt is cancelled after 25 years a substantial number of students will never pay off their debt...it will just be (at least partially if not all) cancelled.
OK, understood, so why are they protesting it then!? "
One of my social work colleagues has been qualified for around 15 years. She is at the capacity of what she can earn as a social worker, has completed several post-grad qualifications and takes on many responsibilities beyond her banding. There are many in similar situations.
From her salary (which has remained virtually stagnant for the best part of 5 years) she pays a fairly hefty proportion towards her loan. I was staggered at the amount - and yet she will never pay it off as it will be impossible to do so her salary.
Social workers don't get bursaries - this is what nurses (who are on similar salaries) have to look forward to. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
OK, understood, so why are they protesting it then!?
I'm not actually quite sure. I think many people don't understand how the student loan system works - I know some people on my degree don't understand how it works to be honest. That kind of financial maths is quite hard for a 17 year old to understand.
It's being protested by many old people who have gone into nursing as a second career. Basically Nursing is one of the only things you can get the government to pay for if you want to do a second degree. Although from this summer you will be able to get a student loan for a second degree in a STEM subject - and I would imagine that medical degrees will be classified as STEM.
But largely because I think people believe that education should be free. Because it was for my parents generation. But that's proven to be unsustainable - and actually not particularly desirable. People resent paying for education, even though education is fundamentally a business decision."
Thanks, health is not a subject I pretend to be an expert in so I enjoyed reading people's insights here. However, you don't need to be an expert to see their working conditions are not optimal for patient care (i.e. staff shouldn't be 'on their knees' towards the end of a shift) and that lies firmly in the responsibility of the employer. This is why I yap on about the agent-principle problem on threads about economics! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Social workers don't get bursaries - this is what nurses (who are on similar salaries) have to look forward to."
Like the rest of us then. (Who actually may well be paying over the odds for our degree, to subsidise things like our universities nursing degree programme). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think it's far-fetched to describe undertaking mandatory training to become a nurse as "a business decision""
Not really. You are undertaking a degree in order to work in a career that you want to work in. It's a personal business decision just like every other degree. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The vast majority of nurses and social workers will never earn more than an average wage, and yet are doing vital and necessary jobs.
Why shouldn't others who can potentially earn far more, or are doing vanity degrees subsidise? |
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Of course we could choose not to subsidise nurse training, or to keep cutting doctors pay below what the rest of the world pay, and say stuff them they don't deserve our money
Just as long as no-one moans when they're ill and can't get to see anyone |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm a nurse and work along side junior doctors everyday. No one goes home on time. We are on our knees with exhaustion but we go home when the job is done. The being caring. We came into the job because we care not the salary. We accept the long hours some of which are unpaid and unrecognised. This country needs to show it's cares and back the doctors. Mr Cunt should be shown up to be the disgrace he is "
 couldn't have said it better, after a 12.5hr shift working with excellent junior doctors they get my full support. Nurses contracts will be next! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The vast majority of nurses and social workers will never earn more than an average wage, and yet are doing vital and necessary jobs.
Why shouldn't others who can potentially earn far more, or are doing vanity degrees subsidise?"
Because 'vanity' degrees are generally essential in different ways to the population.
Certainly I'm unlikely to more than what nurses earn with my degree - yet our statistics show at uni that some of my money I pay goes to fund other grant subsidised degrees such as nursing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Today's news, the government plans to replace nurses bursaries with loans. Obviously they are living too well on £21k after training...
Arguably, the student loans would be better for many nurses.
- It would, on average, result in each student having more free money to spent however they wanted (on things like accommodation and hobbies).
- It would mean that the universities could receive more money per student (they get small amounts currently from the grants, not as much as other students) so that they could deliver a better standard of training without 'borrowing' cash from other degree courses.
- More places could be offered to train nurses in the UK. Currently only around 1/3 of those applying to be nurses are given places on courses, so we have to import nurses from abroad to make up the short fall. This is bad for us (we could be training our own young people) and bad for the countries we recruit from (they need nurses too!).
Thanks that was interesting, but won't it make it harder for people from poorer backgrounds to get into nursing?
Not really as no-one pays before or during training. The graduate repays AFTER they qualify and at a small percentage of salary OVER a basis of currently £21.5k.
So many will not be paying back anything for quite a while.
As any outstanding debt is cancelled after 25 years a substantial number of students will never pay off their debt...it will just be (at least partially if not all) cancelled.
OK, understood, so why are they protesting it then!? "
Not aware that anyone is (or not many, and certainly not those who understand). The protest/strikes are the changes to working contracts being imposed by Mr Cunt. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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You pay back 7% of what you earn ABOVE £21.5k
So if you Earn £30k you pay back 7% of £8.5k (that's £637.50 per year) that will not get near to paying back your £45k of fees (plus student loan) over a 25 year period. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Some outrageous comments on here. Why are people always so quick to bash those who help us the most. I'm 100% behind all NHS staff and 100% against this awful conservative government. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Today's news, the government plans to replace nurses bursaries with loans. Obviously they are living too well on £21k after training...
Arguably, the student loans would be better for many nurses.
- It would, on average, result in each student having more free money to spent however they wanted (on things like accommodation and hobbies).
- It would mean that the universities could receive more money per student (they get small amounts currently from the grants, not as much as other students) so that they could deliver a better standard of training without 'borrowing' cash from other degree courses.
- More places could be offered to train nurses in the UK. Currently only around 1/3 of those applying to be nurses are given places on courses, so we have to import nurses from abroad to make up the short fall. This is bad for us (we could be training our own young people) and bad for the countries we recruit from (they need nurses too!).
Thanks that was interesting, but won't it make it harder for people from poorer backgrounds to get into nursing?
Not really as no-one pays before or during training. The graduate repays AFTER they qualify and at a small percentage of salary OVER a basis of currently £21.5k.
So many will not be paying back anything for quite a while.
As any outstanding debt is cancelled after 25 years a substantial number of students will never pay off their debt...it will just be (at least partially if not all) cancelled.
OK, understood, so why are they protesting it then!?
Not aware that anyone is (or not many, and certainly not those who understand). The protest/strikes are the changes to working contracts being imposed by Mr Cunt."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35263402 |
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"Is there on here who would just accept a 25% pay cut and not strike? Honestly?
Doctors pay has been cut every year for nearly a decade at the same time as Australia, Canada, the US etc are more than happy to pay the going rate
The irony is the people trying to drive through the pay cut are those with private healthcare who are fine if the health service does collapse change it to when and the master plan will be revealed the slow privatisation of the nhs is taking place under our noses and to many are to blind to notice and will do nothing about it untill it is to late and we are stuck with an insurance based health care similar to the USA all administered for profit by the friends and paymasters of the current government most of whom are already directors of said company'
We reap what we sow and that is a two tear health system "
Yes it all Sounds so Depressing, most people can,t afford bupa/private care and thats a lot of people in this country What does the future hold for people in this category, "When you say to many are to blind" who are you refering to, people in government? If That is the case by now the people Involved in this that matters must already know what is happening, back In the 80,s when the pits were closeing you would not be human if you Did not feel for the familys and people it Involved, but to me this is Capitalism as bad as it can get, people In boardrooms with graphs and charts who have,nt a clue in the new real world what its about unless its lineing their pockets and to me this is what it has come to profits first And the health of people second, the Dinosaurs has other people here have Mentioned have lost the plot, at one Time they were probabily useful but are blind now to what is happening or Is that the case ? Any credibility the Tories have will be completely lost for me if they let the nhs disappear and I can Imagine most people doing the same, and also I,d never trust another politician as long as I lived. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm a nurse and work along side junior doctors everyday. No one goes home on time. We are on our knees with exhaustion but we go home when the job is done. The being caring. We came into the job because we care not the salary. We accept the long hours some of which are unpaid and unrecognised. This country needs to show it's cares and back the doctors. Mr Cunt should be shown up to be the disgrace he is "
You worded this brilliantly.
The junior Drs I work with are second to none! As are all the Drs even consultants who work in our unit. We are a team we stick together in good times and bad!. We are all friends who socialise together s well as work together. Our senior consultant went and bought us all sandwiches and drinks New Year's Eve as at 5 pm we still hadn't had breaks or a drink.
He was on shift for 3 days and managed in that time to grab sleep when he could as did the other junior Drs grabbing a hour on a rock hard chair head on a table till that bleep goes off!.
It's disgusting you can't put a price on someone's life yet mr cunt seems to think so.
Next it will be us!
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"It's a joke. Doctors on strike? Let's forget the point of student loans, years not working but studying, having it easy... OK so studying is hard. ..I get it but after the studies you have a few years graft ahead of you to pay your stamp and your dues back to society... Junior docs don't make out your hard done by! It 1p years time you'll be 30 odd with a top wage bracket working half days! Yes you've got it hard.. in reality you've had it easy for 7 years previous! Drives me bonkers lol!"
I suggest you stop reading the Tory friendly shit rags, owned my multi millionaire Tory benefactors with extensive financial interests in the NHS becoming a pay to use service (do you really think you'll suddenly get a comparable tax cut to offset this too?).
There's lies, damn lies and the mainstream media  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Today's news, the government plans to replace nurses bursaries with loans. Obviously they are living too well on £21k after training...
Arguably, the student loans would be better for many nurses.
- It would, on average, result in each student having more free money to spent however they wanted (on things like accommodation and hobbies).
- It would mean that the universities could receive more money per student (they get small amounts currently from the grants, not as much as other students) so that they could deliver a better standard of training without 'borrowing' cash from other degree courses.
- More places could be offered to train nurses in the UK. Currently only around 1/3 of those applying to be nurses are given places on courses, so we have to import nurses from abroad to make up the short fall. This is bad for us (we could be training our own young people) and bad for the countries we recruit from (they need nurses too!).
Thanks that was interesting, but won't it make it harder for people from poorer backgrounds to get into nursing?
Not really as no-one pays before or during training. The graduate repays AFTER they qualify and at a small percentage of salary OVER a basis of currently £21.5k.
So many will not be paying back anything for quite a while.
As any outstanding debt is cancelled after 25 years a substantial number of students will never pay off their debt...it will just be (at least partially if not all) cancelled.
OK, understood, so why are they protesting it then!?
One of my social work colleagues has been qualified for around 15 years. She is at the capacity of what she can earn as a social worker, has completed several post-grad qualifications and takes on many responsibilities beyond her banding. There are many in similar situations.
From her salary (which has remained virtually stagnant for the best part of 5 years) she pays a fairly hefty proportion towards her loan. I was staggered at the amount - and yet she will never pay it off as it will be impossible to do so her salary.
Social workers don't get bursaries - this is what nurses (who are on similar salaries) have to look forward to."
Under the "old" student loans system, you pay 9% of everything you earn over £15k (ish) It only hit what I'd class as a hefty amount once I was earning over £35k. And anyway, you've never had that money in your pay packet, working in jobs where it's taken via PAYE. It's not like you've been used to having it available to spend. 7% of over £21k really isn't going to be a hefty amount unless you have a fairly hefty salary.
Of course I'd rather education was free. But it ain't. There are massive problems with the new student loans system but they're more about the fact it's going to end up costing the government more than the old one ever did. |
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