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By *lan43sum OP Man
over a year ago
Leicester |
Hi All, sorry this a serious subject. I have a friend (yes...really) who has lived with her partner for 7 years. He owns the house. He is becoming quite ill and will end up in full time nursing care.
Would my friend have any rights to the house if it has to be sold to pay the nursing home fees? If her partner was to die would she have any right to keep the house? He has a grown up child from his (now divorced) wife.
I'm sure I'd heard that "partners" have no presumed rights like married couples have.
Any thoughts or is this much more complicated? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Proving an interest in a property can be difficult. Rights of partners is also tricky in matters of probate do the best advice would be CAB or a free hours time with a solicitor.
Without all the personal facts it's tricky to say, best left to the professionals.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No rights unless the partner has written a will.
He may be too ill to do one now."
A will doesn't count for Jack Shit if selling the house to pay for care, unless the partner can demonstrate a legal interest in the property. A will is only binding after death, social services will sell the house to cover care costs while he is still alive as those are the available assets.
It would be too late to sign the house over into her name if he goes into social care - its called avoidance of paying care fees and they can take the parties involved to court to recover costs. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Personally if I was her, I would see which way the wind was blowing.
For example does she have power of attorney if he cant make decisions, do they make financial decisions together etc.
If so, I would be saying to her she needs him to make provisions for her or get married.
If not, then I would say to her time to start looking out for herself |
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By *lan43sum OP Man
over a year ago
Leicester |
Thanks all for the very solid advice so far. It is chilling to think that a couple can live as partners and do all the monogamous stuff to find that their lifestyle has no security in the eyes of the state.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My advice would be get married.. If he In sound mind to agree
I think social services can force a sale of house anyway for care fee's
But surely his kids would agree to use funds fr sale for his care? |
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"Thanks all for the very solid advice so far. It is chilling to think that a couple can live as partners and do all the monogamous stuff to find that their lifestyle has no security in the eyes of the state.
"
Not really. That's what marriage is for, it's a legal instrument that joins finances and bestows automatic rights.
There's nothing to stop people doing a partial join of finances. In this case, her partner could have made her an equal partner in the house by putting her on the deeds any time he wanted. Joint tenants in common is best as it automatically ring fences each partners percentage of the equity.
If his illness is terminal and well advanced, he could always marry her. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Thanks all for the very solid advice so far. It is chilling to think that a couple can live as partners and do all the monogamous stuff to find that their lifestyle has no security in the eyes of the state.
"
It takes all sorts of resources for the state to prove that people "do all the monogamous stuff." There are things people can do to protect themselves if they want their relationship to be recognized by the state. Marriage is just one of those things. I personally think people should spend a little time thinking about what would happen to them if these circumstances arise and act accordingly. The state shouldn't have to guess at true motives.
My advice is to look for legal counsel. This is a very tricky issue and the best result is achieved with professionals.
-Courtney |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Thanks all for the very solid advice so far. It is chilling to think that a couple can live as partners and do all the monogamous stuff to find that their lifestyle has no security in the eyes of the state.
"
I think the exact oposite.
I would find it terrifying if without agreeing to or siging any legal documentation my rights and properties could be given to another person simply because weve known each other for x years
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A person living with another does not have to be married to have any claim on the property or the contents . If she can prove she has made a contribution to the mortgage and upkeep of property, then she will be able with a good solicitor to make a just claim . If your mate as any life insurance - unless he has included her on this she would struggle to get a claim . Why do so many people enter into a marriage or relationship without a will beats me |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A person living with another does not have to be married to have any claim on the property or the contents . If she can prove she has made a contribution to the mortgage and upkeep of property, then she will be able with a good solicitor to make a just claim . If your mate as any life insurance - unless he has included her on this she would struggle to get a claim . Why do so many people enter into a marriage or relationship without a will beats me "
Most people dont consider thier own mortality. |
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By *lan43sum OP Man
over a year ago
Leicester |
They have very little equity in the property once the mortgage is covered. My concern is that she might not be able to live there when he goes into care as my fear is that Social Services will blindly push for a sale and maybe not have the flexibility to recognise that she would still need to be housed somewhere.
CAB sounds a good option as I'd say full on professional advice is not an affordable option for them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Thanks all for the very solid advice so far. It is chilling to think that a couple can live as partners and do all the monogamous stuff to find that their lifestyle has no security in the eyes of the state.
I think the exact oposite.
I would find it terrifying if without agreeing to or siging any legal documentation my rights and properties could be given to another person simply because weve known each other for x years
"
Yeah I agree. And if people are in committed relationships and want those legal securities I really don't get why they don't just get married. £30, registry office, you don't have to change your name or even tell anyone, but you get all of the rights and legal protections. |
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The council can still take control of a property even if you are married. They may allow a person to remain in the property until that person dies or goes into care.
It's a mine field so professional advice is critical... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They have very little equity in the property once the mortgage is covered. My concern is that she might not be able to live there when he goes into care as my fear is that Social Services will blindly push for a sale and maybe not have the flexibility to recognise that she would still need to be housed somewhere.
CAB sounds a good option as I'd say full on professional advice is not an affordable option for them."
I understand that equity under £23,250 is disregarded, so if that were the case, that would not be something to worry about.
If, however, she has no legal interest in the property, she is unlikely to be a party to the mortgage. The bank/building society would insist on a sale even if the estate did not.
To protect her position, he would need to give her a joint interest in the property (or to make a will providing her with a right). But that will still require the bank/building society's cooperation. Does she really want to be committed to paying the mortgage when there is little equity? Can she afford to do so? |
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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago
Titz Towers, North Notts |
If she moved in on the strength of his promise, having suffered a detriment in order to do so, she would have a right under promissory estoppel. Failing that, it is basically trust law. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If she moved in on the strength of his promise, having suffered a detriment in order to do so, she would have a right under promissory estoppel. Failing that, it is basically trust law. "
Even then, I am afraid, not a right which overcomes that of the bank/building society. |
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By *lan43sum OP Man
over a year ago
Leicester |
It seems from the very considered replies above that being "wise after the event" is almost an unavoidable consequence of being human.
Hope this thread will have opened eyes and minds of those to whom this could happen one day. There have been some good suggestions for steps that people could take to potentially avoid the state breaking up their homes.
As one who has no current links with the DSS/Social Services I've found the advice very very helpful. Thanks all
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems from the very considered replies above that being "wise after the event" is almost an unavoidable consequence of being human.
Hope this thread will have opened eyes and minds of those to whom this could happen one day. There have been some good suggestions for steps that people could take to potentially avoid the state breaking up their homes.
As one who has no current links with the DSS/Social Services I've found the advice very very helpful. Thanks all
"
also new laws give ex partners wife etc rights , but not sure in this type of situation |
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"Thanks all for the very solid advice so far. It is chilling to think that a couple can live as partners and do all the monogamous stuff to find that their lifestyle has no security in the eyes of the state.
"
If it was important to they'd marry. |
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"Thanks all for the very solid advice so far. It is chilling to think that a couple can live as partners and do all the monogamous stuff to find that their lifestyle has no security in the eyes of the state.
Not really. That's what marriage is for, it's a legal instrument that joins finances and bestows automatic rights.
There's nothing to stop people doing a partial join of finances. In this case, her partner could have made her an equal partner in the house by putting her on the deeds any time he wanted. Joint tenants in common is best as it automatically ring fences each partners percentage of the equity.
If his illness is terminal and well advanced, he could always marry her."
Exactly! |
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