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Time required / cost to install a new central heating pump.
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The central heating failed in a house share which I let out . Luckily I had a new pump fitted next day and was only without heat for a few hours .
I have to pay the engineer who fitted the pump who is the son of a friend who does some work for me
When this gentleman does the work , his mother just tells me to pay what I believe to be an appropriate amount .
He has done a number of jobs for me and I can only assume that he is happy with the rates that I pay.
The pump is for an oil fired system and I assume that both buying and changing the pump would be about four hours work.
I was thinking of paying about eighty pounds and was wondering if this is a reasonable amount . I have used Northern rates |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"ask him how much he wants paying is the norm. I agree but for some reason he never quotes me a price . "
Odd way of working he's got.
But if he's happy to work for that then let him crack on..you get the job done cheaper after all  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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northern rates?
Who ever this guy is get a fixed price to swap it (strange business model he has if his mum is telling you to pay what you think), buy the pump yourself to bring the price down even more. |
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"His mum tell you how to pay him 
Im not surprised he's getting £20 an hour "
he's not getting £20 an hour tho ... he's paying for the pump and other materials plus other business costs .... sounds more like he's getting £9.50 an hour which is a labourers rate .... pay the guy properly it's only fair |
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"His mum tell you how to pay him
Im not surprised he's getting £20 an hour
he's not getting £20 an hour tho ... he's paying for the pump and other materials plus other business costs .... sounds more like he's getting £9.50 an hour which is a labourers rate .... pay the guy properly it's only fair"
. Hi. The price I am asking about excludes the cost of the pump which was £100 for a good quality one .
I am paying £20 per hour if it took him four hours. I am only guessing at home long the job took as I was not there .. |
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"His mum tell you how to pay him
Im not surprised he's getting £20 an hour
he's not getting £20 an hour tho ... he's paying for the pump and other materials plus other business costs .... sounds more like he's getting £9.50 an hour which is a labourers rate .... pay the guy properly it's only fair. Hi. The price I am asking about excludes the cost of the pump which was £100 for a good quality one .
I am paying £20 per hour if it took him four hours. I am only guessing at home long the job took as I was not there .."
which is why i mentioned asking him how much he wants ... he may want less |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"His mum tell you how to pay him
Im not surprised he's getting £20 an hour
he's not getting £20 an hour tho ... he's paying for the pump and other materials plus other business costs .... sounds more like he's getting £9.50 an hour which is a labourers rate .... pay the guy properly it's only fair. Hi. The price I am asking about excludes the cost of the pump which was £100 for a good quality one .
I am paying £20 per hour if it took him four hours. I am only guessing at home long the job took as I was not there .."
.
Never mind that...
Where did you source a good quality heating pump for a hundred quid  |
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"His mum tell you how to pay him
Im not surprised he's getting £20 an hour
he's not getting £20 an hour tho ... he's paying for the pump and other materials plus other business costs .... sounds more like he's getting £9.50 an hour which is a labourers rate .... pay the guy properly it's only fair. Hi. The price I am asking about excludes the cost of the pump which was £100 for a good quality one .
I am paying £20 per hour if it took him four hours. I am only guessing at home long the job took as I was not there ...
Never mind that...
Where did you source a good quality heating pump for a hundred quid "
Good question ?? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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First question
Has it got working valves, the time scale will be radically different on that one issue!.
Second question
Is the pump a direct replacement or will the pipe work need altering!
Third question
Will the pipe work alter by a little bit of brute force
Fourth question
You can see why it's easier to get the plumber to price for it rather than some swingers?  |
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"His mum tell you how to pay him
Im not surprised he's getting £20 an hour
he's not getting £20 an hour tho ... he's paying for the pump and other materials plus other business costs .... sounds more like he's getting £9.50 an hour which is a labourers rate .... pay the guy properly it's only fair. Hi. The price I am asking about excludes the cost of the pump which was £100 for a good quality one .
I am paying £20 per hour if it took him four hours. I am only guessing at home long the job took as I was not there ...
Never mind that...
Where did you source a good quality heating pump for a hundred quid
Good question ??"
. Through a works account . £117 plus Vat less discount . |
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"First question
Has it got working valves, the time scale will be radically different on that one issue!.
Second question
Is the pump a direct replacement or will the pipe work need altering!
Third question
Will the pipe work alter by a little bit of brute force
Fourth question
You can see why it's easier to get the plumber to price for it rather than some swingers? "
. All very valid points to which I do not know the answers . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"northern rates?
Who ever this guy is get a fixed price to swap it (strange business model he has if his mum is telling you to pay what you think), buy the pump yourself to bring the price down even more."
Well if your mum ssks you to do a favour for a friend of hers its generally accepted you aint working for full price.
Price of the pump needs to be known and paid for before you do the labour. |
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"His mum tell you how to pay him
Im not surprised he's getting £20 an hour
he's not getting £20 an hour tho ... he's paying for the pump and other materials plus other business costs .... sounds more like he's getting £9.50 an hour which is a labourers rate .... pay the guy properly it's only fair. Hi. The price I am asking about excludes the cost of the pump which was £100 for a good quality one .
I am paying £20 per hour if it took him four hours. I am only guessing at home long the job took as I was not there ...
Never mind that...
Where did you source a good quality heating pump for a hundred quid
Good question ??. Through a works account . £117 plus Vat less discount ."
If that's the trade price but surely you wouldn't supply without a profit? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"His mum tell you how to pay him
Im not surprised he's getting £20 an hour
he's not getting £20 an hour tho ... he's paying for the pump and other materials plus other business costs .... sounds more like he's getting £9.50 an hour which is a labourers rate .... pay the guy properly it's only fair. Hi. The price I am asking about excludes the cost of the pump which was £100 for a good quality one .
I am paying £20 per hour if it took him four hours. I am only guessing at home long the job took as I was not there ...
Never mind that...
Where did you source a good quality heating pump for a hundred quid
Good question ??. Through a works account . £117 plus Vat less discount .
If that's the trade price but surely you wouldn't supply without a profit?"
.
You can get a15/50 grundfos for about that if you shop about, the alphas go up a little bit more and by the time your on the slightly bigger version for larger houses, your looking over £200.
I always add on 10% for supplying as it's my time if it goes wrong |
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"First question
Has it got working valves, the time scale will be radically different on that one issue!.
Second question
Is the pump a direct replacement or will the pipe work need altering!
Third question
Will the pipe work alter by a little bit of brute force
Fourth question
You can see why it's easier to get the plumber to price for it rather than some swingers? . All very valid points to which I do not know the answers ."
First question ....doesn't matter about the valves , most good heating engineers will carry a rapid freeze kit.....
Second question ....you would buy a pump that is a direct replacement....
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"First question
Has it got working valves, the time scale will be radically different on that one issue!.
Second question
Is the pump a direct replacement or will the pipe work need altering!
Third question
Will the pipe work alter by a little bit of brute force
Fourth question
You can see why it's easier to get the plumber to price for it rather than some swingers? . All very valid points to which I do not know the answers .
First question ....doesn't matter about the valves , most good heating engineers will carry a rapid freeze kit.....
Second question ....you would buy a pump that is a direct replacement....
"
.
I have a freeze machine there really good but you can't always use them easily in confined spaces or short access pipe work.
Your right I would buy a direct replacement size valve but has he? |
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"First question
Has it got working valves, the time scale will be radically different on that one issue!.
Second question
Is the pump a direct replacement or will the pipe work need altering!
Third question
Will the pipe work alter by a little bit of brute force
Fourth question
You can see why it's easier to get the plumber to price for it rather than some swingers? . All very valid points to which I do not know the answers .
First question ....doesn't matter about the valves , most good heating engineers will carry a rapid freeze kit.....
Second question ....you would buy a pump that is a direct replacement....
.
I have a freeze machine there really good but you can't always use them easily in confined spaces or short access pipe work.
Your right I would buy a direct replacement size valve but has he?"
Good points I would hope someone has actually looked at the job first though......not just guessed the pump has gone .... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"First question
Has it got working valves, the time scale will be radically different on that one issue!.
Second question
Is the pump a direct replacement or will the pipe work need altering!
Third question
Will the pipe work alter by a little bit of brute force
Fourth question
You can see why it's easier to get the plumber to price for it rather than some swingers? . All very valid points to which I do not know the answers .
First question ....doesn't matter about the valves , most good heating engineers will carry a rapid freeze kit.....
Second question ....you would buy a pump that is a direct replacement....
.
I have a freeze machine there really good but you can't always use them easily in confined spaces or short access pipe work.
Your right I would buy a direct replacement size valve but has he?
Good points I would hope someone has actually looked at the job first though......not just guessed the pump has gone ...."
.
I didn't even get to that bit on my questions lol.
Most pumps will still hum away while being totally fucked! |
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By *errygTV/TS
over a year ago
denton |
just looked in screwfix prices start at 80 quid,grunfoss 125, some are easy to do, i have seen others under the floor, then they have fitted wardrobes built over, or laminate floor, if its oil fired pump will probably be next to it and easy to do, min labor 40, as he has to buy it travel to shop fuel and time, if its 60 labor thats not bad, |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
I think the man must be mad to arrange payment depending on what his mother says.
Pay him whatever the going rate is, you must have some idea how much this type of things cost an hour. Oh and "Northern rate" doesn't mean work for nowt |
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Getting any trade to your place is a minimum £100 a day.. If you get them on a weekend for that your doing well.. The lad must be struggling for work if he keeps coming back..labourers get £80 a day for brushing up!
|
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"I think the man must be mad to arrange payment depending on what his mother says.
Pay him whatever the going rate is, you must have some idea how much this type of things cost an hour. Oh and "Northern rate" doesn't mean work for nowt"
. This has always been the arrangement and I can only assume that he must be happy with what I pay otherwise he would not do the work again..
What I am proposing to pay him is above the average of what most members on this forum have suggested .
When I referred to Northern rates I was trying to take into account regional variations in charge rates . I was not trying to get someone to work for nowt . |
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"Getting any trade to your place is a minimum £100 a day.. If you get them on a weekend for that your doing well.. The lad must be struggling for work if he keeps coming back..labourers get £80 a day for brushing up!
"
. This is not always the case . I have called out VAT registered tradesmen for jobs who may only have charged between thirty and forty pounds . Some of them I have used over a number of years and in one case it was a Sunday morning job.. |
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By *errygTV/TS
over a year ago
denton |
normally people i know well over the years if i fit a pump i keep rates low, i dont forget some people are on minimum wage and charging high rates take a big chunk of their wage, i know a lot charge between 150 and 200, with all these discounts about people not in the trade can pay the same as people who are, for materials |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If its a straightforward job to swap out, bearing in mind he's a personally recommended contact, I'd keep him sweet and bung him 120 quid or so for his labour.
If you ever have another emergency and need a plumber desperately, he might not be available if he thinks you've had him on the cheap beforehand... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the man must be mad to arrange payment depending on what his mother says.
Pay him whatever the going rate is, you must have some idea how much this type of things cost an hour. Oh and "Northern rate" doesn't mean work for nowt. This has always been the arrangement and I can only assume that he must be happy with what I pay otherwise he would not do the work again..
What I am proposing to pay him is above the average of what most members on this forum have suggested .
When I referred to Northern rates I was trying to take into account regional variations in charge rates . I was not trying to get someone to work for nowt . "
.
The rates do vary alot but not always north/south
For instance Cheshire might be more expensive than cornwall, parts of Cumbria can be extortionate |
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"Getting any trade to your place is a minimum £100 a day.. If you get them on a weekend for that your doing well.. The lad must be struggling for work if he keeps coming back..labourers get £80 a day for brushing up!
. This is not always the case . I have called out VAT registered tradesmen for jobs who may only have charged between thirty and forty pounds . Some of them I have used over a number of years and in one case it was a Sunday morning job.."
Fair play to you for finding cheap rates.. but I and plenty I know didn't put ourselves through an apprenticeship become a tradesmen to get out bed on a Sunday morning after 50/60 hour week to earn £30/£40 on a Sunday.. them rates belong in the 80's..
From your side tho I'd be made up if I was paying that.
|
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"Getting any trade to your place is a minimum £100 a day.. If you get them on a weekend for that your doing well.. The lad must be struggling for work if he keeps coming back..labourers get £80 a day for brushing up!
. This is not always the case . I have called out VAT registered tradesmen for jobs who may only have charged between thirty and forty pounds . Some of them I have used over a number of years and in one case it was a Sunday morning job..
Fair play to you for finding cheap rates.. but I and plenty I know didn't put ourselves through an apprenticeship become a tradesmen to get out bed on a Sunday morning after 50/60 hour week to earn £30/£40 on a Sunday.. them rates belong in the 80's..
From your side tho I'd be made up if I was paying that.
"
. I did pay him more than he asked for and we also enjoy talking about tractors  |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"I think the man must be mad to arrange payment depending on what his mother says.
Pay him whatever the going rate is, you must have some idea how much this type of things cost an hour. Oh and "Northern rate" doesn't mean work for nowt. This has always been the arrangement and I can only assume that he must be happy with what I pay otherwise he would not do the work again..
. "
In which case I am at a loss as to why you are asking if the arrangement with you both is already set |
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"I think the man must be mad to arrange payment depending on what his mother says.
Pay him whatever the going rate is, you must have some idea how much this type of things cost an hour. Oh and "Northern rate" doesn't mean work for nowt. This has always been the arrangement and I can only assume that he must be happy with what I pay otherwise he would not do the work again..
.
In which case I am at a loss as to why you are asking if the arrangement with you both is already set"
. I was trying to assess if the amount which I proposed to pay him was reasonable / fair .
I can only assume that it is as he is always happy to do these jobs . |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
Exactly why I am wondering why you are asking the question. ( not saying you cant ask before anyone tells me off ) but it is just puzzling.
For me I would pay him more as it looks like he is getting the piss took out of him as £20 is something I have never paid for a plumber |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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£20 - £25 an hour is just about OK for a self employed maintenance guy, but if I were him I would also be asking for a call out fee to cover vehicle costs, tooling, stock items etc
I work in a similar field. Our (employed) guys hourly pay equates to about £19 an hour basic.
So yeah, you're not too wide of the mark |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"£20 - £25 an hour is just about OK for a self employed maintenance guy, but if I were him I would also be asking for a call out fee to cover vehicle costs, tooling, stock items etc
I work in a similar field. Our (employed) guys hourly pay equates to about £19 an hour basic.
So yeah, you're not too wide of the mark "
P.S. if using a subcontractor, I usually pay about £50 call out and about £30 hour labour
We only use guys that are Limited companies though. We have a 'no sole trader' policy. |
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"£20 - £25 an hour is just about OK for a self employed maintenance guy, but if I were him I would also be asking for a call out fee to cover vehicle costs, tooling, stock items etc
I work in a similar field. Our (employed) guys hourly pay equates to about £19 an hour basic.
So yeah, you're not too wide of the mark "
. Hi . Thanks for the advice . He works full time for a large maintenance contractor and is allowed to do a small number of jobs outside his employers contract . Your points are noted . |
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"Exactly why I am wondering why you are asking the question. ( not saying you cant ask before anyone tells me off ) but it is just puzzling.
For me I would pay him more as it looks like he is getting the piss took out of him as £20 is something I have never paid for a plumber"
. Thanks for the comments . I do not know how long the job took . As it is an outside boiler. with easy access , it may have only taken thirty minutes plus the time to order the parts . It could of course taken a lot longer ., maybe four hours maximum.
What type of jobs do you use a plumber for and how much did you expect to pay for them?.
|
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"I think the man must be mad to arrange payment depending on what his mother says.
Pay him whatever the going rate is, you must have some idea how much this type of things cost an hour. Oh and "Northern rate" doesn't mean work for nowt. This has always been the arrangement and I can only assume that he must be happy with what I pay otherwise he would not do the work again..
.
In which case I am at a loss as to why you are asking if the arrangement with you both is already set. I was trying to assess if the amount which I proposed to pay him was reasonable / fair .
I can only assume that it is as he is always happy to do these jobs ."
you could of course have just asked him? |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"Exactly why I am wondering why you are asking the question. ( not saying you cant ask before anyone tells me off ) but it is just puzzling.
For me I would pay him more as it looks like he is getting the piss took out of him as £20 is something I have never paid for a plumber. Thanks for the comments . I do not know how long the job took . As it is an outside boiler. with easy access , it may have only taken thirty minutes plus the time to order the parts . It could of course taken a lot longer ., maybe four hours maximum.
What type of jobs do you use a plumber for and how much did you expect to pay for them?.
"
You could always ask the man I suppose, they have mobile phones ooopp norf too now
In answer to your last two questions....we would use a plumber to errmmm do plumbing and we would have to pay more than you are giving the man |
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I'd prefer to pay high calibre staff and suppliers - especially if I want to do repeat work - at well above the minimum rate.
Some people are fantastic at what they do but less talented in other things, such as negotiation or perhaps with their confidence. This is all the more reason to reward someone like this very well, so that they develop confidence etc.
If you want cheap and shoddy there are different routes to get this.
This worker's mum may realise that her son is outstanding but can't price his skill, as she doesn't have the experience to do so. But she does trust the op to potentially know more - it's good that you're asking here op.
Do not pay a paltry amount for someone who gives consistently high performance and dedication - as well as their not trying to bleed you dry, by him never asking for inflated figures.
I'd find a standard rate for the job, add at least 50%, as his work is great, as well as ensuring that all of his costs are covered.
And I'd also discuss the terms of doing business now, so that future opportunities are covered. This takes anxiety and uncertainty out of the equation for next time.
I'd also treat him somehow, perhaps give him a night out, if he's worked over the holiday season or with very short notice.
He's worked in an area of business where call out charges are high and the norm. I'd expect him to have a minimum of a full day's rate or the job done plus 50%, as earlier.
Happy to be his agent on a no fee basis. |
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"I'd prefer to pay high calibre staff and suppliers - especially if I want to do repeat work - at well above the minimum rate.
Some people are fantastic at what they do but less talented in other things, such as negotiation or perhaps with their confidence. This is all the more reason to reward someone like this very well, so that they develop confidence etc.
If you want cheap and shoddy there are different routes to get this.
This worker's mum may realise that her son is outstanding but can't price his skill, as she doesn't have the experience to do so. But she does trust the op to potentially know more - it's good that you're asking here op.
Do not pay a paltry amount for someone who gives consistently high performance and dedication - as well as their not trying to bleed you dry, by him never asking for inflated figures.
I'd find a standard rate for the job, add at least 50%, as his work is great, as well as ensuring that all of his costs are covered.
And I'd also discuss the terms of doing business now, so that future opportunities are covered. This takes anxiety and uncertainty out of the equation for next time.
I'd also treat him somehow, perhaps give him a night out, if he's worked over the holiday season or with very short notice.
He's worked in an area of business where call out charges are high and the norm. I'd expect him to have a minimum of a full day's rate or the job done plus 50%, as earlier.
Happy to be his agent on a no fee basis. "
. Hi. Thanks for the advice and I have noted all of your points .
However , paying top rates does not always equate to either a quality service or a good job.
I use plumbers in a number of locations for domestic work in houses and use their rates as a guideline as to what I should pay for this job.
In the case of the job for which I was seeking advice on the rate , I could use another local plumber who did work for me previously at this location . However as the chaps mother does some work for me ,I would not want to offend her by using someone else.
I have installed a central heating system myself in the past so am reasonably familiar with some plumbing jobs .
For the most expensive plumber which I use ,I do not consider his work to be any better than others and waiting time to do a job is probably longer. As I am uncertain if his charges are reasonable ,I will shop around and try someone else for the next job.
Thanks for the advice |
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"What people may accept, without complaint, does not equate to either their happiness, talent nor fairness.
"
. Hi. Thanks for the advice . I will try and find my RICS cost schedule which lists the standard costs of various jobs by region .. |
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He must be giving you the receipt for the pump. So start with that. Then changing a pump is relatively straight forward if its a straight swap. Plumbers are not as highly qualified as corgi so unless he is corgi. £50 labour on site sounds good plus any travelling and sourcing... 80 sounds pretty good. |
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"He must be giving you the receipt for the pump. So start with that. Then changing a pump is relatively straight forward if its a straight swap. Plumbers are not as highly qualified as corgi so unless he is corgi. £50 labour on site sounds good plus any travelling and sourcing... 80 sounds pretty good."
. Thanks for the advice . You have confirmed that what I propose to pay is fair and reasonable ..
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"Just pay a little cash. Then report him for not paying tax on it! That'll teach him for doing a job with no guarantee!! "
. Sounds a very vindicative and spitefully suggestion to me .
I prefer to pay the going rate and assume that the tradesman puts it on his tax return . |
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