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Freedom of speech
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"Freedom of speech is fine and a human right, as long as you take responsibility for it." I look at it slightly differently, I believe that it is the duty and responsibility of all of us to challenge those who say things which threaten our democracy and society as we know it. | |||
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"Freedom of speech is fine and a human right, as long as you take responsibility for it. I look at it slightly differently, I believe that it is the duty and responsibility of all of us to challenge those who say things which threaten our democracy and society as we know it. " What I meant, more - and I'm not directing this comment as you - that if someone makes a racially aggravating comment, for example, then they should take responsibility for that comment and to be treated accordingly. | |||
"Anyone who thinks we live in a democracy has bought the bullshit that we are fed in a daily baisis, we are not free, our government no longer run the country, it's run by the media, and the corporations, we vote for puppets, we are not in control, we are not important, we are an inconvenience, our only worth is the money we earn, and spend " Maybe you would like to give Syria, Saudia Arabia or North Korea a go? It is by no means perfect but our society has an awful lot going for it. | |||
"I hope not, however with the right to hold an opinion comes the responsibility for your fellow human beings. Ignorant people use the right to speak freely on any hateful or controversial topic with no thought for the consequences. Rights and Resposibilities, not just unquestionable liberty." . Controversial topic?.. What exactly does that mean! | |||
"Freedom of speech is fine and a human right, as long as you take responsibility for it. I look at it slightly differently, I believe that it is the duty and responsibility of all of us to challenge those who say things which threaten our democracy and society as we know it. What I meant, more - and I'm not directing this comment as you - that if someone makes a racially aggravating comment, for example, then they should take responsibility for that comment and to be treated accordingly." Take the person making the comments and put them on a stage with opposing views on something like Question Time and allow them to be challenged and brought down through debate. | |||
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"Freedom of speech is fine and a human right, as long as you take responsibility for it. I look at it slightly differently, I believe that it is the duty and responsibility of all of us to challenge those who say things which threaten our democracy and society as we know it. What I meant, more - and I'm not directing this comment as you - that if someone makes a racially aggravating comment, for example, then they should take responsibility for that comment and to be treated accordingly. Take the person making the comments and put them on a stage with opposing views on something like Question Time and allow them to be challenged and brought down through debate." No. I mean when someone makes a racist comment let the police deal with it in an appropriate manner. People have been convincted for racial abuse on social media. | |||
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"Freedom of speech is fine and a human right, as long as you take responsibility for it. I look at it slightly differently, I believe that it is the duty and responsibility of all of us to challenge those who say things which threaten our democracy and society as we know it. What I meant, more - and I'm not directing this comment as you - that if someone makes a racially aggravating comment, for example, then they should take responsibility for that comment and to be treated accordingly. Take the person making the comments and put them on a stage with opposing views on something like Question Time and allow them to be challenged and brought down through debate. No. I mean when someone makes a racist comment let the police deal with it in an appropriate manner. People have been convincted for racial abuse on social media." It's a tricky area, would you describe what Trump has said as overtly racist and a matter for the police? Is it incitement to hatred and capable of being proved as such? Or is it a view so stupid as to be held to ridicule by the public and media? Do I agree with him, no. Does he have the right to express his opinion and deal with the consequences yes. | |||
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"We don't have freedom of speech, unlike the USA where it's enshrined in their constitution. We have many laws that exist to prevent others being hurt or against incitement of crimes, and simple laws that ensure that people don't break public order. Someone could say something freely, but they are not immune should they be breaking any laws. Slander is also a problem that could arise from speaking inappropriately. We should accept the responsibility that we have towards others around us, and this means that we shouldn't communicate what would reasonably be assumed to upset, inflame or incite commitment of crimes etc. There are limits to our freedoms and many of them are being diminished though." Very well put  | |||
"Freedom of speech is fine and a human right, as long as you take responsibility for it. I look at it slightly differently, I believe that it is the duty and responsibility of all of us to challenge those who say things which threaten our democracy and society as we know it. What I meant, more - and I'm not directing this comment as you - that if someone makes a racially aggravating comment, for example, then they should take responsibility for that comment and to be treated accordingly. Take the person making the comments and put them on a stage with opposing views on something like Question Time and allow them to be challenged and brought down through debate. No. I mean when someone makes a racist comment let the police deal with it in an appropriate manner. People have been convincted for racial abuse on social media. It's a tricky area, would you describe what Trump has said as overtly racist and a matter for the police? Is it incitement to hatred and capable of being proved as such? Or is it a view so stupid as to be held to ridicule by the public and media? Do I agree with him, no. Does he have the right to express his opinion and deal with the consequences yes. " I;d actually say what he has said is out and out fascism. I'm not sure that it should be viewed as inciting racial hatred, to me that is what people do when they lie and create fear. Trump's comments are far more sinister than that | |||
"Freedom of speech is fine and a human right, as long as you take responsibility for it. I look at it slightly differently, I believe that it is the duty and responsibility of all of us to challenge those who say things which threaten our democracy and society as we know it. What I meant, more - and I'm not directing this comment as you - that if someone makes a racially aggravating comment, for example, then they should take responsibility for that comment and to be treated accordingly. Take the person making the comments and put them on a stage with opposing views on something like Question Time and allow them to be challenged and brought down through debate." Nick Clegg thought he could do that to Nigel Farage when he challenged him to a series of live debates on television on the EU. In the end Nigel Farage won those debates hands down, all the opinion polls after the debates backed that up too. Nick Clegg is the one who ended up looking like a fool. | |||
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"Freedom of speech is fine and a human right, as long as you take responsibility for it. I look at it slightly differently, I believe that it is the duty and responsibility of all of us to challenge those who say things which threaten our democracy and society as we know it. What I meant, more - and I'm not directing this comment as you - that if someone makes a racially aggravating comment, for example, then they should take responsibility for that comment and to be treated accordingly. Take the person making the comments and put them on a stage with opposing views on something like Question Time and allow them to be challenged and brought down through debate. No. I mean when someone makes a racist comment let the police deal with it in an appropriate manner. People have been convincted for racial abuse on social media. It's a tricky area, would you describe what Trump has said as overtly racist and a matter for the police? Is it incitement to hatred and capable of being proved as such? Or is it a view so stupid as to be held to ridicule by the public and media? Do I agree with him, no. Does he have the right to express his opinion and deal with the consequences yes. " . Absolutely, I don't think it's inciting hatred to be honest, it's just a rather stupid thing to say , people look for easy answers to difficult questions all the time, it's not c02 it's just cows farting, it's the Russians, it's socialism, it's this that and the other. Trump doesn't have the time for a long complicated answer to peoples fears, so it's one sentence, lock em up or lock em out! It's nonsensical but it's appealing to the 30 seconds of attention span public. I'll gladly mock people out of their ridiculous beliefs and I'm very very glad to live here in the west doing it, because there's genuinely heroic people out there getting beheaded in the less civilised parts of the world! | |||
"Freedom of speech is fine and a human right, as long as you take responsibility for it. I look at it slightly differently, I believe that it is the duty and responsibility of all of us to challenge those who say things which threaten our democracy and society as we know it. What I meant, more - and I'm not directing this comment as you - that if someone makes a racially aggravating comment, for example, then they should take responsibility for that comment and to be treated accordingly. Take the person making the comments and put them on a stage with opposing views on something like Question Time and allow them to be challenged and brought down through debate. No. I mean when someone makes a racist comment let the police deal with it in an appropriate manner. People have been convincted for racial abuse on social media. It's a tricky area, would you describe what Trump has said as overtly racist and a matter for the police? Is it incitement to hatred and capable of being proved as such? Or is it a view so stupid as to be held to ridicule by the public and media? Do I agree with him, no. Does he have the right to express his opinion and deal with the consequences yes. I;d actually say what he has said is out and out fascism. I'm not sure that it should be viewed as inciting racial hatred, to me that is what people do when they lie and create fear. Trump's comments are far more sinister than that" I'd rather that he made his comments than minced his words though - at least we can see him for what he is... | |||
"Freedom of speech is fine and a human right, as long as you take responsibility for it. I look at it slightly differently, I believe that it is the duty and responsibility of all of us to challenge those who say things which threaten our democracy and society as we know it. What I meant, more - and I'm not directing this comment as you - that if someone makes a racially aggravating comment, for example, then they should take responsibility for that comment and to be treated accordingly. Take the person making the comments and put them on a stage with opposing views on something like Question Time and allow them to be challenged and brought down through debate. Nick Clegg thought he could do that to Nigel Farage when he challenged him to a series of live debates on television on the EU. In the end Nigel Farage won those debates hands down, all the opinion polls after the debates backed that up too. Nick Clegg is the one who ended up looking like a fool. " What the.......? | |||
"I'm all for people using the right to freedom of speech. I also think people should exercise their right to remain silent more often ". I think we've remained silent far too much! | |||
"I'm all for people using the right to freedom of speech. I also think people should exercise their right to remain silent more often .
I think we've remained silent far too much!"If you tolerate this, then your children will be next? | |||
"Freedom of speech is fine and a human right, as long as you take responsibility for it. I look at it slightly differently, I believe that it is the duty and responsibility of all of us to challenge those who say things which threaten our democracy and society as we know it. What I meant, more - and I'm not directing this comment as you - that if someone makes a racially aggravating comment, for example, then they should take responsibility for that comment and to be treated accordingly. Take the person making the comments and put them on a stage with opposing views on something like Question Time and allow them to be challenged and brought down through debate. Nick Clegg thought he could do that to Nigel Farage when he challenged him to a series of live debates on television on the EU. In the end Nigel Farage won those debates hands down, all the opinion polls after the debates backed that up too. Nick Clegg is the one who ended up looking like a fool. What the.......? "People with opposing views debating each other on television shows such as question time, it's great for free speech. It's also funny how those debates often turn out when people show their true colours. John McDonnel's recent appearance on question time a few weeks ago springs to mind. | |||
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"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less." Is any modern society truly free or democratic? Freedoms are gradually eroded by more and more restrictive laws. | |||
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"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less." I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). | |||
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"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). " "Political Correctness" is merely the notion that if you say something that people find objectionable then they will challenge you on it. People who don't enjoy political correctness often feel they they should both be allowed to spout offensive shite and not be challenged on it. Farrage is one of those. He is allowed to be the obnoxious little prick that he is, unfortunately (for him), people are also allowed to challenge his views. | |||
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"I hope not, however with the right to hold an opinion comes the responsibility for your fellow human beings. Ignorant people use the right to speak freely on any hateful or controversial topic with no thought for the consequences. Rights and Resposibilities, not just unquestionable liberty." Totally agree with Jenny, yes to freedom of speech but to a certain extend, I am totally for it when it comes to news as long as the story is the truth but totally against it when it this so called freedom of speech allows you to insult people and spread your hatred. | |||
"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). "Political Correctness" is merely the notion that if you say something that people find objectionable then they will challenge you on it. People who don't enjoy political correctness often feel they they should both be allowed to spout offensive shite and not be challenged on it. Farrage is one of those. He is allowed to be the obnoxious little prick that he is, unfortunately (for him), people are also allowed to challenge his views. " Farage knows full well anything he says he'll be challenged on it. That's the great thing about free speech. It works both ways, the likes of John McDonnel, Ken Livingstone and Jeremy Corbyn are allowed to be the obnoxious pricks that they are, unfortunately (for them) people are allowed to challenge their views. | |||
"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). "Political Correctness" is merely the notion that if you say something that people find objectionable then they will challenge you on it. People who don't enjoy political correctness often feel they they should both be allowed to spout offensive shite and not be challenged on it. Farrage is one of those. He is allowed to be the obnoxious little prick that he is, unfortunately (for him), people are also allowed to challenge his views. Farage knows full well anything he says he'll be challenged on it. That's the great thing about free speech. It works both ways, the likes of John McDonnel, Ken Livingstone and Jeremy Corbyn are allowed to be the obnoxious pricks that they are, unfortunately (for them) people are allowed to challenge their views. " None of those people are claiming that challenges to their politic is "political correctness gone mad" and shouldn't be allowed though are they? Its only those who's logic/argument is shaky who have to resort to that tired mantra to protect their lack of wit. | |||
"I wouldn't employ a woman in my workplace, they tend to break their nails and cry n stuff.. just exercised my right of freedom to be a twat. I love this whole political correctness gone mad pish thats spouted so often these days..in regard to trumps comments and context.. does he mean a particular 'type' of muslim? not the black ones, the white ones, the far-eastern ones..I'd imagine they're all cool...I think I should invent a muslim identifier anyway on the general aspects of free speech....I'd assume its a bit more understanding to see the innocence of a child coming out with something that they think isnt hateful/spiteful(though they will learn..hopefully) etc, as adults though..get a fucking grip. I've never pretended things are perfect...but my usual stance is if political correctness is ruining your everyday life...fuck off back to another era" 353 incidents of mass shootings (four or more people) in the US in 2015 (source Mass Shooting Tracker). One attributed to Muslims yet Trump calls for Muslims to be banned. Alrighty then!  | |||
"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). "Political Correctness" is merely the notion that if you say something that people find objectionable then they will challenge you on it. People who don't enjoy political correctness often feel they they should both be allowed to spout offensive shite and not be challenged on it. Farrage is one of those. He is allowed to be the obnoxious little prick that he is, unfortunately (for him), people are also allowed to challenge his views. Farage knows full well anything he says he'll be challenged on it. That's the great thing about free speech. It works both ways, the likes of John McDonnel, Ken Livingstone and Jeremy Corbyn are allowed to be the obnoxious pricks that they are, unfortunately (for them) people are allowed to challenge their views. None of those people are claiming that challenges to their politic is "political correctness gone mad" and shouldn't be allowed though are they? Its only those who's logic/argument is shaky who have to resort to that tired mantra to protect their lack of wit. " You talk about political correctness as if it is some kind of myth or it doesn't even exist (tired mantra?) That's the problem with those who are often politically correct, they refuse to acknowledge it. | |||
"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). "Political Correctness" is merely the notion that if you say something that people find objectionable then they will challenge you on it. People who don't enjoy political correctness often feel they they should both be allowed to spout offensive shite and not be challenged on it. Farrage is one of those. He is allowed to be the obnoxious little prick that he is, unfortunately (for him), people are also allowed to challenge his views. Farage knows full well anything he says he'll be challenged on it. That's the great thing about free speech. It works both ways, the likes of John McDonnel, Ken Livingstone and Jeremy Corbyn are allowed to be the obnoxious pricks that they are, unfortunately (for them) people are allowed to challenge their views. None of those people are claiming that challenges to their politic is "political correctness gone mad" and shouldn't be allowed though are they? Its only those who's logic/argument is shaky who have to resort to that tired mantra to protect their lack of wit. You talk about political correctness as if it is some kind of myth or it doesn't even exist (tired mantra?) That's the problem with those who are often politically correct, they refuse to acknowledge it. " I explained what it was in my first post. Again, I re-iterate - people that don't like it (political correctness) merely want to hold views and not be challenged on them, and if they are; not to answer that challenge, and so write it off as "political correctness gone mad", without addressing the challenge - usually because they are either to intellectually lazy or lack the wit to do so. | |||
"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). " Would that be the same Farage who's political party party membership voted two to one against Ukip's affiliation to a Pan European Political Party (PEPP)? That was the clear and unambiguous democratic verdict of the party membership after a big debate extending over several months. Would that be the same Farage who then went on to form a PEPP with a selection of far right MEPs despite the democratic will of his party for that not to happen? Does that sound like someone we should trust to protect democracy? | |||
"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). Would that be the same Farage who's political party party membership voted two to one against Ukip's affiliation to a Pan European Political Party (PEPP)? That was the clear and unambiguous democratic verdict of the party membership after a big debate extending over several months. Would that be the same Farage who then went on to form a PEPP with a selection of far right MEPs despite the democratic will of his party for that not to happen? Does that sound like someone we should trust to protect democracy? " You mean more trustworthy than the EU commission who just have repeated referendums when countries don't give them the so called 'democratic' answer they want to hear. | |||
"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). "Political Correctness" is merely the notion that if you say something that people find objectionable then they will challenge you on it. People who don't enjoy political correctness often feel they they should both be allowed to spout offensive shite and not be challenged on it. Farrage is one of those. He is allowed to be the obnoxious little prick that he is, unfortunately (for him), people are also allowed to challenge his views. Farage knows full well anything he says he'll be challenged on it. That's the great thing about free speech. It works both ways, the likes of John McDonnel, Ken Livingstone and Jeremy Corbyn are allowed to be the obnoxious pricks that they are, unfortunately (for them) people are allowed to challenge their views. None of those people are claiming that challenges to their politic is "political correctness gone mad" and shouldn't be allowed though are they? Its only those who's logic/argument is shaky who have to resort to that tired mantra to protect their lack of wit. You talk about political correctness as if it is some kind of myth or it doesn't even exist (tired mantra?) That's the problem with those who are often politically correct, they refuse to acknowledge it. I explained what it was in my first post. Again, I re-iterate - people that don't like it (political correctness) merely want to hold views and not be challenged on them, and if they are; not to answer that challenge, and so write it off as "political correctness gone mad", without addressing the challenge - usually because they are either to intellectually lazy or lack the wit to do so. " ...and again I re-iterate Farage knows full well anything he says he'll be challenged on. As I said in an earlier post he debated Nick Clegg in a series of live debates on television on Britain's EU membership. If you watched those debates he didn't write off everything Nick Clegg said as being politically correct, he debated the points one after the other and won the debates by a good margin (as confirmed by the various polls which were conducted after the debates finnished). | |||
"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). Would that be the same Farage who's political party party membership voted two to one against Ukip's affiliation to a Pan European Political Party (PEPP)? That was the clear and unambiguous democratic verdict of the party membership after a big debate extending over several months. Would that be the same Farage who then went on to form a PEPP with a selection of far right MEPs despite the democratic will of his party for that not to happen? Does that sound like someone we should trust to protect democracy? You mean more trustworthy than the EU commission who just have repeated referendums when countries don't give them the so called 'democratic' answer they want to hear. " Well done - avoided answering the question, just like a true UKIP'er. Truly, the party of the hard of thinking. | |||
"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). Would that be the same Farage who's political party party membership voted two to one against Ukip's affiliation to a Pan European Political Party (PEPP)? That was the clear and unambiguous democratic verdict of the party membership after a big debate extending over several months. Would that be the same Farage who then went on to form a PEPP with a selection of far right MEPs despite the democratic will of his party for that not to happen? Does that sound like someone we should trust to protect democracy? You mean more trustworthy than the EU commission who just have repeated referendums when countries don't give them the so called 'democratic' answer they want to hear. " Answer the question: was it Farage who chose to ignore the democratic vote of his party members (vetoed by the membership by a vote of 5161 to 2535 on a 49·2 per cent turnout)? Does that sound like someone who you can trust to defend democracy when he can't even operate it inside his own political party? | |||
"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). Would that be the same Farage who's political party party membership voted two to one against Ukip's affiliation to a Pan European Political Party (PEPP)? That was the clear and unambiguous democratic verdict of the party membership after a big debate extending over several months. Would that be the same Farage who then went on to form a PEPP with a selection of far right MEPs despite the democratic will of his party for that not to happen? Does that sound like someone we should trust to protect democracy? You mean more trustworthy than the EU commission who just have repeated referendums when countries don't give them the so called 'democratic' answer they want to hear. Well done - avoided answering the question, just like a true UKIP'er. Truly, the party of the hard of thinking. " ...and you just avoided my question about the EU commission. You are a Labour man aren't you, truly the party of the hard of thinking. | |||
"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). "Political Correctness" is merely the notion that if you say something that people find objectionable then they will challenge you on it. People who don't enjoy political correctness often feel they they should both be allowed to spout offensive shite and not be challenged on it. Farrage is one of those. He is allowed to be the obnoxious little prick that he is, unfortunately (for him), people are also allowed to challenge his views. Farage knows full well anything he says he'll be challenged on it. That's the great thing about free speech. It works both ways, the likes of John McDonnel, Ken Livingstone and Jeremy Corbyn are allowed to be the obnoxious pricks that they are, unfortunately (for them) people are allowed to challenge their views. None of those people are claiming that challenges to their politic is "political correctness gone mad" and shouldn't be allowed though are they? Its only those who's logic/argument is shaky who have to resort to that tired mantra to protect their lack of wit. You talk about political correctness as if it is some kind of myth or it doesn't even exist (tired mantra?) That's the problem with those who are often politically correct, they refuse to acknowledge it. I explained what it was in my first post. Again, I re-iterate - people that don't like it (political correctness) merely want to hold views and not be challenged on them, and if they are; not to answer that challenge, and so write it off as "political correctness gone mad", without addressing the challenge - usually because they are either to intellectually lazy or lack the wit to do so. ...and again I re-iterate Farage knows full well anything he says he'll be challenged on. As I said in an earlier post he debated Nick Clegg in a series of live debates on television on Britain's EU membership. If you watched those debates he didn't write off everything Nick Clegg said as being politically correct, he debated the points one after the other and won the debates by a good margin (as confirmed by the various polls which were conducted after the debates finnished). " What has that got to do with challenging political correctness? It's you who said that he doesn't like "political correctness", and you vindicate my point by being unable to justify your views in the face of any challenge, you merely deflect, presumably because you lack the wit to justify yourself, which explains why you support UKIP. | |||
"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). Would that be the same Farage who's political party party membership voted two to one against Ukip's affiliation to a Pan European Political Party (PEPP)? That was the clear and unambiguous democratic verdict of the party membership after a big debate extending over several months. Would that be the same Farage who then went on to form a PEPP with a selection of far right MEPs despite the democratic will of his party for that not to happen? Does that sound like someone we should trust to protect democracy? You mean more trustworthy than the EU commission who just have repeated referendums when countries don't give them the so called 'democratic' answer they want to hear. Well done - avoided answering the question, just like a true UKIP'er. Truly, the party of the hard of thinking. ...and you just avoided my question about the EU commission. You are a Labour man aren't you, truly the party of the hard of thinking. " No. I'm not a Labour man. | |||
"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). Would that be the same Farage who's political party party membership voted two to one against Ukip's affiliation to a Pan European Political Party (PEPP)? That was the clear and unambiguous democratic verdict of the party membership after a big debate extending over several months. Would that be the same Farage who then went on to form a PEPP with a selection of far right MEPs despite the democratic will of his party for that not to happen? Does that sound like someone we should trust to protect democracy? You mean more trustworthy than the EU commission who just have repeated referendums when countries don't give them the so called 'democratic' answer they want to hear. Answer the question: was it Farage who chose to ignore the democratic vote of his party members (vetoed by the membership by a vote of 5161 to 2535 on a 49·2 per cent turnout)? Does that sound like someone who you can trust to defend democracy when he can't even operate it inside his own political party? " I've not looked into those sets of circumstances so I can't comment on them. Will have to look into it. | |||
"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). Would that be the same Farage who's political party party membership voted two to one against Ukip's affiliation to a Pan European Political Party (PEPP)? That was the clear and unambiguous democratic verdict of the party membership after a big debate extending over several months. Would that be the same Farage who then went on to form a PEPP with a selection of far right MEPs despite the democratic will of his party for that not to happen? Does that sound like someone we should trust to protect democracy? You mean more trustworthy than the EU commission who just have repeated referendums when countries don't give them the so called 'democratic' answer they want to hear. Well done - avoided answering the question, just like a true UKIP'er. Truly, the party of the hard of thinking. ...and you just avoided my question about the EU commission. You are a Labour man aren't you, truly the party of the hard of thinking. No. I'm not a Labour man. "Really, the way you defended Jeremy Corbyn and Ken Livingstone on other Labour party threads over the last few weeks seems to have given your political loyalties away. | |||
"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). Would that be the same Farage who's political party party membership voted two to one against Ukip's affiliation to a Pan European Political Party (PEPP)? That was the clear and unambiguous democratic verdict of the party membership after a big debate extending over several months. Would that be the same Farage who then went on to form a PEPP with a selection of far right MEPs despite the democratic will of his party for that not to happen? Does that sound like someone we should trust to protect democracy? You mean more trustworthy than the EU commission who just have repeated referendums when countries don't give them the so called 'democratic' answer they want to hear. Answer the question: was it Farage who chose to ignore the democratic vote of his party members (vetoed by the membership by a vote of 5161 to 2535 on a 49·2 per cent turnout)? Does that sound like someone who you can trust to defend democracy when he can't even operate it inside his own political party? I've not looked into those sets of circumstances so I can't comment on them. Will have to look into it. " Let me help you: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2875851/Ukip-fury-Farage-forms-EU-political-party-secure-1-5m-taxpayers-cash-Brussels.html | |||
"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). Would that be the same Farage who's political party party membership voted two to one against Ukip's affiliation to a Pan European Political Party (PEPP)? That was the clear and unambiguous democratic verdict of the party membership after a big debate extending over several months. Would that be the same Farage who then went on to form a PEPP with a selection of far right MEPs despite the democratic will of his party for that not to happen? Does that sound like someone we should trust to protect democracy? You mean more trustworthy than the EU commission who just have repeated referendums when countries don't give them the so called 'democratic' answer they want to hear. Well done - avoided answering the question, just like a true UKIP'er. Truly, the party of the hard of thinking. ...and you just avoided my question about the EU commission. You are a Labour man aren't you, truly the party of the hard of thinking. No. I'm not a Labour man.
Really, the way you defended Jeremy Corbyn and Ken Livingstone on other Labour party threads over the last few weeks seems to have given your political loyalties away. "I've never defended Ken Livingstone - I have attempted to explain the rise in popularity of Corbyn. Still not a Labour man though. | |||
| |||
"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). "Political Correctness" is merely the notion that if you say something that people find objectionable then they will challenge you on it. People who don't enjoy political correctness often feel they they should both be allowed to spout offensive shite and not be challenged on it. Farrage is one of those. He is allowed to be the obnoxious little prick that he is, unfortunately (for him), people are also allowed to challenge his views. Farage knows full well anything he says he'll be challenged on it. That's the great thing about free speech. It works both ways, the likes of John McDonnel, Ken Livingstone and Jeremy Corbyn are allowed to be the obnoxious pricks that they are, unfortunately (for them) people are allowed to challenge their views. None of those people are claiming that challenges to their politic is "political correctness gone mad" and shouldn't be allowed though are they? Its only those who's logic/argument is shaky who have to resort to that tired mantra to protect their lack of wit. You talk about political correctness as if it is some kind of myth or it doesn't even exist (tired mantra?) That's the problem with those who are often politically correct, they refuse to acknowledge it. I explained what it was in my first post. Again, I re-iterate - people that don't like it (political correctness) merely want to hold views and not be challenged on them, and if they are; not to answer that challenge, and so write it off as "political correctness gone mad", without addressing the challenge - usually because they are either to intellectually lazy or lack the wit to do so. ...and again I re-iterate Farage knows full well anything he says he'll be challenged on. As I said in an earlier post he debated Nick Clegg in a series of live debates on television on Britain's EU membership. If you watched those debates he didn't write off everything Nick Clegg said as being politically correct, he debated the points one after the other and won the debates by a good margin (as confirmed by the various polls which were conducted after the debates finnished). What has that got to do with challenging political correctness? It's you who said that he doesn't like "political correctness", and you vindicate my point by being unable to justify your views in the face of any challenge, you merely deflect, presumably because you lack the wit to justify yourself, which explains why you support UKIP. " My reply has everything to do with the post of yours which I quoted. You said Farage wants to hold views and not be challenged by them. My post explains to you where your reasoning is wrong in regard to that. If he didn't want to be challenged he would avoid programmes like Question Time, the Nick Clegg EU debates, and the general election debates live on telly. | |||
"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). "Political Correctness" is merely the notion that if you say something that people find objectionable then they will challenge you on it. People who don't enjoy political correctness often feel they they should both be allowed to spout offensive shite and not be challenged on it. Farrage is one of those. He is allowed to be the obnoxious little prick that he is, unfortunately (for him), people are also allowed to challenge his views. Farage knows full well anything he says he'll be challenged on it. That's the great thing about free speech. It works both ways, the likes of John McDonnel, Ken Livingstone and Jeremy Corbyn are allowed to be the obnoxious pricks that they are, unfortunately (for them) people are allowed to challenge their views. None of those people are claiming that challenges to their politic is "political correctness gone mad" and shouldn't be allowed though are they? Its only those who's logic/argument is shaky who have to resort to that tired mantra to protect their lack of wit. You talk about political correctness as if it is some kind of myth or it doesn't even exist (tired mantra?) That's the problem with those who are often politically correct, they refuse to acknowledge it. I explained what it was in my first post. Again, I re-iterate - people that don't like it (political correctness) merely want to hold views and not be challenged on them, and if they are; not to answer that challenge, and so write it off as "political correctness gone mad", without addressing the challenge - usually because they are either to intellectually lazy or lack the wit to do so. ...and again I re-iterate Farage knows full well anything he says he'll be challenged on. As I said in an earlier post he debated Nick Clegg in a series of live debates on television on Britain's EU membership. If you watched those debates he didn't write off everything Nick Clegg said as being politically correct, he debated the points one after the other and won the debates by a good margin (as confirmed by the various polls which were conducted after the debates finnished). What has that got to do with challenging political correctness? It's you who said that he doesn't like "political correctness", and you vindicate my point by being unable to justify your views in the face of any challenge, you merely deflect, presumably because you lack the wit to justify yourself, which explains why you support UKIP. My reply has everything to do with the post of yours which I quoted. You said Farage wants to hold views and not be challenged by them. My post explains to you where your reasoning is wrong in regard to that. If he didn't want to be challenged he would avoid programmes like Question Time, the Nick Clegg EU debates, and the general election debates live on telly. " I didn't realise that you and Nigel Farrage were synonymous... | |||
"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). Would that be the same Farage who's political party party membership voted two to one against Ukip's affiliation to a Pan European Political Party (PEPP)? That was the clear and unambiguous democratic verdict of the party membership after a big debate extending over several months. Would that be the same Farage who then went on to form a PEPP with a selection of far right MEPs despite the democratic will of his party for that not to happen? Does that sound like someone we should trust to protect democracy? You mean more trustworthy than the EU commission who just have repeated referendums when countries don't give them the so called 'democratic' answer they want to hear. Answer the question: was it Farage who chose to ignore the democratic vote of his party members (vetoed by the membership by a vote of 5161 to 2535 on a 49·2 per cent turnout)? Does that sound like someone who you can trust to defend democracy when he can't even operate it inside his own political party? I've not looked into those sets of circumstances so I can't comment on them. Will have to look into it. Let me help you: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2875851/Ukip-fury-Farage-forms-EU-political-party-secure-1-5m-taxpayers-cash-Brussels.html" You read the daily mail?
I thought you had a lifelong subscription to the Guardian? | |||
"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). Would that be the same Farage who's political party party membership voted two to one against Ukip's affiliation to a Pan European Political Party (PEPP)? That was the clear and unambiguous democratic verdict of the party membership after a big debate extending over several months. Would that be the same Farage who then went on to form a PEPP with a selection of far right MEPs despite the democratic will of his party for that not to happen? Does that sound like someone we should trust to protect democracy? You mean more trustworthy than the EU commission who just have repeated referendums when countries don't give them the so called 'democratic' answer they want to hear. Answer the question: was it Farage who chose to ignore the democratic vote of his party members (vetoed by the membership by a vote of 5161 to 2535 on a 49·2 per cent turnout)? Does that sound like someone who you can trust to defend democracy when he can't even operate it inside his own political party? I've not looked into those sets of circumstances so I can't comment on them. Will have to look into it. Let me help you: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2875851/Ukip-fury-Farage-forms-EU-political-party-secure-1-5m-taxpayers-cash-Brussels.html You read the daily mail?
I thought you had a lifelong subscription to the Guardian? "When helping you I like to give you references with which you can feel some empathy.  | |||
"I'm all for people using the right to freedom of speech. I also think people should exercise their right to remain silent more often .
I think we've remained silent far too much!
If you tolerate this, then your children will be next?". Well it all depends, my children could be spouting unfounded bollocks on a website, in which case I wouldn't be happy However they may just want to write a book called ooooh I dunno, satanic verses and have half the Muslim world want to kill them for it, including a large minority of UK citizens. At that point I draw the line and say no, your culture and religious practises are beyond tolerable in a 21st century democracy. And when you march with that banner that says "death to salman Rushdie" you will be arrested and you will be sent to jail... If only they Were white hey, and not a down trodden brown minority with a cultural difference | |||
"I'm all for people using the right to freedom of speech. I also think people should exercise their right to remain silent more often .
I think we've remained silent far too much!
If you tolerate this, then your children will be next?.
Well it all depends, my children could be spouting unfounded bollocks on a website, in which case I wouldn't be happy
However they may just want to write a book called ooooh I dunno, satanic verses and have half the Muslim world want to kill them for it, including a large minority of UK citizens.
At that point I draw the line and say no, your culture and religious practises are beyond tolerable in a 21st century democracy.
And when you march with that banner that says "death to salman Rushdie" you will be arrested and you will be sent to jail...
If only they Were white hey, and not a down trodden brown minority with a cultural difference "You mean white like the EDL? The National Front? the BNP? UKIP? I didn't realise all the abhorrent people were brown until you just told me. | |||
"Freedom of speech is fine and a human right, as long as you take responsibility for it." You are quite right but alas most people who spout hate speech hide behing the freedom of speech and will not take ownership of their own words  | |||
"Freedom of speech is fine and a human right, as long as you take responsibility for it. You are quite right but alas most people who spout hate speech hide behing the freedom of speech and will not take ownership of their own words "The answer is to make them take responsibility. | |||
"Freedom of speech is fine and a human right, as long as you take responsibility for it. You are quite right but alas most people who spout hate speech hide behing the freedom of speech and will not take ownership of their own words
The answer is to make them take responsibility. "most haters are too entrenched in misery to be aware of the need to take ownership,it's the taking a horse to water story. | |||
"I'm all for people using the right to freedom of speech. I also think people should exercise their right to remain silent more often .
I think we've remained silent far too much!
If you tolerate this, then your children will be next?.
Well it all depends, my children could be spouting unfounded bollocks on a website, in which case I wouldn't be happy
However they may just want to write a book called ooooh I dunno, satanic verses and have half the Muslim world want to kill them for it, including a large minority of UK citizens.
At that point I draw the line and say no, your culture and religious practises are beyond tolerable in a 21st century democracy.
And when you march with that banner that says "death to salman Rushdie" you will be arrested and you will be sent to jail...
If only they Were white hey, and not a down trodden brown minority with a cultural difference
You mean white like the EDL? The National Front? the BNP? UKIP?
I didn't realise all the abhorrent people were brown until you just told me. ". The EDL was a direct result of the Islamic group al muhajiroun never being confronted because of cowardice views. Last time I looked no member of the EDL,BNP, or ukip was threatening to kill Muslims for saying the queen is gay. Your beliefs are just as big a problem to Muslim freedom than any isis terrorist. Your great at slagging of white people... Well whooppee do, pick the easy fight, but your utterly silent to Mr Ahmed who won't let his daughter out without a make companion, won't let his daughter marry a non Muslim, is utterly outraged to the point of killing people for cartoons and couldn't possibly be his fault becuase my God... Look he's coloured. Get a life | |||
"I'm all for people using the right to freedom of speech. I also think people should exercise their right to remain silent more often .
I think we've remained silent far too much!
If you tolerate this, then your children will be next?.
Well it all depends, my children could be spouting unfounded bollocks on a website, in which case I wouldn't be happy
However they may just want to write a book called ooooh I dunno, satanic verses and have half the Muslim world want to kill them for it, including a large minority of UK citizens.
At that point I draw the line and say no, your culture and religious practises are beyond tolerable in a 21st century democracy.
And when you march with that banner that says "death to salman Rushdie" you will be arrested and you will be sent to jail...
If only they Were white hey, and not a down trodden brown minority with a cultural difference
You mean white like the EDL? The National Front? the BNP? UKIP?
I didn't realise all the abhorrent people were brown until you just told me. .
The EDL was a direct result of the Islamic group al muhajiroun never being confronted because of cowardice views.
Last time I looked no member of the EDL,BNP, or ukip was threatening to kill Muslims for saying the queen is gay.
Your beliefs are just as big a problem to Muslim freedom than any isis terrorist.
Your great at slagging of white people... Well whooppee do, pick the easy fight, but your utterly silent to Mr Ahmed who won't let his daughter out without a make companion, won't let his daughter marry a non Muslim, is utterly outraged to the point of killing people for cartoons and couldn't possibly be his fault becuase my God... Look he's coloured.
Get a life"Where have I ever defended Islam? I dislike fascists of whatever colour - be they white, like the BNP, EDL, UKIP or non-white - ISIS, Taliban, etc etc I certainly have no love for religion - all the sides of the judeo-christian monotheistic coin are abhorrent to me. It is you who have brought colour and religion into the debate, not me. It is you who make lazy stereotypes about "brown people", not me. | |||
"Freedom of speech is fine and a human right, as long as you take responsibility for it. You are quite right but alas most people who spout hate speech hide behing the freedom of speech and will not take ownership of their own words
The answer is to make them take responsibility.
most haters are too entrenched in misery to be aware of the need to take ownership,it's the taking a horse to water story.". Are you talking bollocks or what. If you incite violence or racial hatred... It's a crime and the police will deal with you, it's been this way for years! The only people I know who will shoot you and behead you for... The massive crime of satirical cartoons are (of which the freedom of speech will live or die) are Muslim orientated!. I don't like David Cameron but fuck me last time I looked he's had pig fucker, and child killer thrown at him and not gone out and shot the journalist or had a fatwa if he'd gone into hiding. | |||
"I'm all for people using the right to freedom of speech. I also think people should exercise their right to remain silent more often .
I think we've remained silent far too much!
If you tolerate this, then your children will be next?.
Well it all depends, my children could be spouting unfounded bollocks on a website, in which case I wouldn't be happy
However they may just want to write a book called ooooh I dunno, satanic verses and have half the Muslim world want to kill them for it, including a large minority of UK citizens.
At that point I draw the line and say no, your culture and religious practises are beyond tolerable in a 21st century democracy.
And when you march with that banner that says "death to salman Rushdie" you will be arrested and you will be sent to jail...
If only they Were white hey, and not a down trodden brown minority with a cultural difference
You mean white like the EDL? The National Front? the BNP? UKIP?
I didn't realise all the abhorrent people were brown until you just told me. "You do realise there are black, Asian and mixed race people in UKIP. Leaving the EU is not a matter of race or skin colour. | |||
"Freedom of speech is fine and a human right, as long as you take responsibility for it. You are quite right but alas most people who spout hate speech hide behing the freedom of speech and will not take ownership of their own words
The answer is to make them take responsibility.
most haters are too entrenched in misery to be aware of the need to take ownership,it's the taking a horse to water story..
Are you talking bollocks or what.
If you incite violence or racial hatred... It's a crime and the police will deal with you, it's been this way for years!
The only people I know who will shoot you and behead you for... The massive crime of satirical cartoons are (of which the freedom of speech will live or die) are Muslim orientated!.
I don't like David Cameron but fuck me last time I looked he's had pig fucker, and child killer thrown at him and not gone out and shot the journalist or had a fatwa if he'd gone into hiding."Nobody has beheaded anybody in this country for some years, as far as I know. | |||
"I'm all for people using the right to freedom of speech. I also think people should exercise their right to remain silent more often .
I think we've remained silent far too much!
If you tolerate this, then your children will be next?.
Well it all depends, my children could be spouting unfounded bollocks on a website, in which case I wouldn't be happy
However they may just want to write a book called ooooh I dunno, satanic verses and have half the Muslim world want to kill them for it, including a large minority of UK citizens.
At that point I draw the line and say no, your culture and religious practises are beyond tolerable in a 21st century democracy.
And when you march with that banner that says "death to salman Rushdie" you will be arrested and you will be sent to jail...
If only they Were white hey, and not a down trodden brown minority with a cultural difference
You mean white like the EDL? The National Front? the BNP? UKIP?
I didn't realise all the abhorrent people were brown until you just told me.
You do realise there are black, Asian and mixed race people in UKIP. Leaving the EU is not a matter of race or skin colour. "Fascists aren't always white. | |||
"I'm all for people using the right to freedom of speech. I also think people should exercise their right to remain silent more often .
I think we've remained silent far too much!
If you tolerate this, then your children will be next?.
Well it all depends, my children could be spouting unfounded bollocks on a website, in which case I wouldn't be happy
However they may just want to write a book called ooooh I dunno, satanic verses and have half the Muslim world want to kill them for it, including a large minority of UK citizens.
At that point I draw the line and say no, your culture and religious practises are beyond tolerable in a 21st century democracy.
And when you march with that banner that says "death to salman Rushdie" you will be arrested and you will be sent to jail...
If only they Were white hey, and not a down trodden brown minority with a cultural difference
You mean white like the EDL? The National Front? the BNP? UKIP?
I didn't realise all the abhorrent people were brown until you just told me.
You do realise there are black, Asian and mixed race people in UKIP. Leaving the EU is not a matter of race or skin colour.
Fascists aren't always white. "Funny you just commented on two separate posts earlier in this thread that UKIP is a 'white' group....your words not mine. | |||
"I'm all for people using the right to freedom of speech. I also think people should exercise their right to remain silent more often .
I think we've remained silent far too much!
If you tolerate this, then your children will be next?.
Well it all depends, my children could be spouting unfounded bollocks on a website, in which case I wouldn't be happy
However they may just want to write a book called ooooh I dunno, satanic verses and have half the Muslim world want to kill them for it, including a large minority of UK citizens.
At that point I draw the line and say no, your culture and religious practises are beyond tolerable in a 21st century democracy.
And when you march with that banner that says "death to salman Rushdie" you will be arrested and you will be sent to jail...
If only they Were white hey, and not a down trodden brown minority with a cultural difference
You mean white like the EDL? The National Front? the BNP? UKIP?
I didn't realise all the abhorrent people were brown until you just told me. .
The EDL was a direct result of the Islamic group al muhajiroun never being confronted because of cowardice views.
Last time I looked no member of the EDL,BNP, or ukip was threatening to kill Muslims for saying the queen is gay.
Your beliefs are just as big a problem to Muslim freedom than any isis terrorist.
Your great at slagging of white people... Well whooppee do, pick the easy fight, but your utterly silent to Mr Ahmed who won't let his daughter out without a make companion, won't let his daughter marry a non Muslim, is utterly outraged to the point of killing people for cartoons and couldn't possibly be his fault becuase my God... Look he's coloured.
Get a life
Where have I ever defended Islam?
I dislike fascists of whatever colour - be they white, like the BNP, EDL, UKIP or non-white - ISIS, Taliban, etc etc
I certainly have no love for religion - all the sides of the judeo-christian monotheistic coin are abhorrent to me.
It is you who have brought colour and religion into the debate, not me. It is you who make lazy stereotypes about "brown people", not me. ". It's not a lazy stereotype... Look around you, your unwillingness to call a problem a problem is the fucking problem! You keep banging on about the edl or whoever but your failing to come to the obvious conclusion that all these groups are kept in check by current laws... Nobody can incite racial crimes in this country... It's fucking illegal. However.. Let's face facts Where was out free speech when a dozen cartoonists were gunned down in Paris. You were all very quick with the je suis Charlie, but in reality not one single paper reprinted those cartoons.... CARTOONS blimey the utter bollocks of leftists (and I'm one myself) defending the printing of cartoons because it may upset someone enough for them to get a Kalashnikov and gun down journalists. I truly despair | |||
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"Freedom of speech is fine and a human right, as long as you take responsibility for it. You are quite right but alas most people who spout hate speech hide behing the freedom of speech and will not take ownership of their own words
The answer is to make them take responsibility.
most haters are too entrenched in misery to be aware of the need to take ownership,it's the taking a horse to water story..
Are you talking bollocks or what.
If you incite violence or racial hatred... It's a crime and the police will deal with you, it's been this way for years!
The only people I know who will shoot you and behead you for... The massive crime of satirical cartoons are (of which the freedom of speech will live or die) are Muslim orientated!.
I don't like David Cameron but fuck me last time I looked he's had pig fucker, and child killer thrown at him and not gone out and shot the journalist or had a fatwa if he'd gone into hiding.
Nobody has beheaded anybody in this country for some years, as far as I know. ". I really really think you need to examine your evidence. Lee rigby | |||
"I'm all for people using the right to freedom of speech. I also think people should exercise their right to remain silent more often .
I think we've remained silent far too much!
If you tolerate this, then your children will be next?.
Well it all depends, my children could be spouting unfounded bollocks on a website, in which case I wouldn't be happy
However they may just want to write a book called ooooh I dunno, satanic verses and have half the Muslim world want to kill them for it, including a large minority of UK citizens.
At that point I draw the line and say no, your culture and religious practises are beyond tolerable in a 21st century democracy.
And when you march with that banner that says "death to salman Rushdie" you will be arrested and you will be sent to jail...
If only they Were white hey, and not a down trodden brown minority with a cultural difference
You mean white like the EDL? The National Front? the BNP? UKIP?
I didn't realise all the abhorrent people were brown until you just told me. .
The EDL was a direct result of the Islamic group al muhajiroun never being confronted because of cowardice views.
Last time I looked no member of the EDL,BNP, or ukip was threatening to kill Muslims for saying the queen is gay.
Your beliefs are just as big a problem to Muslim freedom than any isis terrorist.
Your great at slagging of white people... Well whooppee do, pick the easy fight, but your utterly silent to Mr Ahmed who won't let his daughter out without a make companion, won't let his daughter marry a non Muslim, is utterly outraged to the point of killing people for cartoons and couldn't possibly be his fault becuase my God... Look he's coloured.
Get a life
Where have I ever defended Islam?
I dislike fascists of whatever colour - be they white, like the BNP, EDL, UKIP or non-white - ISIS, Taliban, etc etc
I certainly have no love for religion - all the sides of the judeo-christian monotheistic coin are abhorrent to me.
It is you who have brought colour and religion into the debate, not me. It is you who make lazy stereotypes about "brown people", not me. .
It's not a lazy stereotype... Look around you, your unwillingness to call a problem a problem is the fucking problem!
You keep banging on about the edl or whoever but your failing to come to the obvious conclusion that all these groups are kept in check by current laws...
Nobody can incite racial crimes in this country... It's fucking illegal.
However.. Let's face facts
Where was out free speech when a dozen cartoonists were gunned down in Paris. You were all very quick with the je suis Charlie, but in reality not one single paper reprinted those cartoons.... CARTOONS blimey the utter bollocks of leftists (and I'm one myself) defending the printing of cartoons because it may upset someone enough for them to get a Kalashnikov and gun down journalists.
I truly despair"Explain to me how I defended the shootings of Journalists? I didn't. I don't like fascists of any colour. I don't like any of the judaeo-christian monotheistic religions (which includes Ialam). However, Islam is not "brown people", there are plenty of black and brown christians, for example. | |||
"I'm all for people using the right to freedom of speech. I also think people should exercise their right to remain silent more often .
I think we've remained silent far too much!
If you tolerate this, then your children will be next?.
Well it all depends, my children could be spouting unfounded bollocks on a website, in which case I wouldn't be happy
However they may just want to write a book called ooooh I dunno, satanic verses and have half the Muslim world want to kill them for it, including a large minority of UK citizens.
At that point I draw the line and say no, your culture and religious practises are beyond tolerable in a 21st century democracy.
And when you march with that banner that says "death to salman Rushdie" you will be arrested and you will be sent to jail...
If only they Were white hey, and not a down trodden brown minority with a cultural difference
You mean white like the EDL? The National Front? the BNP? UKIP?
I didn't realise all the abhorrent people were brown until you just told me.
You do realise there are black, Asian and mixed race people in UKIP. Leaving the EU is not a matter of race or skin colour.
Fascists aren't always white.
Funny you just commented on two separate posts earlier in this thread that UKIP is a 'white' group....your words not mine. "I lumped them in with the white fascists because they are overwhelmingly white. Kudos on some straw-clutching. I could create a whole other category of "mostly white" fascists and put them in it, if it helps. | |||
"I'm all for people using the right to freedom of speech. I also think people should exercise their right to remain silent more often .
I think we've remained silent far too much!
If you tolerate this, then your children will be next?.
Well it all depends, my children could be spouting unfounded bollocks on a website, in which case I wouldn't be happy
However they may just want to write a book called ooooh I dunno, satanic verses and have half the Muslim world want to kill them for it, including a large minority of UK citizens.
At that point I draw the line and say no, your culture and religious practises are beyond tolerable in a 21st century democracy.
And when you march with that banner that says "death to salman Rushdie" you will be arrested and you will be sent to jail...
If only they Were white hey, and not a down trodden brown minority with a cultural difference
You mean white like the EDL? The National Front? the BNP? UKIP?
I didn't realise all the abhorrent people were brown until you just told me.
You do realise there are black, Asian and mixed race people in UKIP. Leaving the EU is not a matter of race or skin colour.
Fascists aren't always white.
Funny you just commented on two separate posts earlier in this thread that UKIP is a 'white' group....your words not mine.
I lumped them in with the white fascists because they are overwhelmingly white. Kudos on some straw-clutching. I could create a whole other category of "mostly white" fascists and put them in it, if it helps. "So now they've gone from exclusively white to mostly white? Lol. | |||
"I'm all for people using the right to freedom of speech. I also think people should exercise their right to remain silent more often .
I think we've remained silent far too much!
If you tolerate this, then your children will be next?.
Well it all depends, my children could be spouting unfounded bollocks on a website, in which case I wouldn't be happy
However they may just want to write a book called ooooh I dunno, satanic verses and have half the Muslim world want to kill them for it, including a large minority of UK citizens.
At that point I draw the line and say no, your culture and religious practises are beyond tolerable in a 21st century democracy.
And when you march with that banner that says "death to salman Rushdie" you will be arrested and you will be sent to jail...
If only they Were white hey, and not a down trodden brown minority with a cultural difference
You mean white like the EDL? The National Front? the BNP? UKIP?
I didn't realise all the abhorrent people were brown until you just told me.
You do realise there are black, Asian and mixed race people in UKIP. Leaving the EU is not a matter of race or skin colour.
Fascists aren't always white.
Funny you just commented on two separate posts earlier in this thread that UKIP is a 'white' group....your words not mine.
I lumped them in with the white fascists because they are overwhelmingly white. Kudos on some straw-clutching. I could create a whole other category of "mostly white" fascists and put them in it, if it helps.
So now they've gone from exclusively white to mostly white? Lol. "But most importantly, fascists. | |||
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"I'm all for people using the right to freedom of speech. I also think people should exercise their right to remain silent more often .
I think we've remained silent far too much!
If you tolerate this, then your children will be next?.
Well it all depends, my children could be spouting unfounded bollocks on a website, in which case I wouldn't be happy
However they may just want to write a book called ooooh I dunno, satanic verses and have half the Muslim world want to kill them for it, including a large minority of UK citizens.
At that point I draw the line and say no, your culture and religious practises are beyond tolerable in a 21st century democracy.
And when you march with that banner that says "death to salman Rushdie" you will be arrested and you will be sent to jail...
If only they Were white hey, and not a down trodden brown minority with a cultural difference
You mean white like the EDL? The National Front? the BNP? UKIP?
I didn't realise all the abhorrent people were brown until you just told me. .
The EDL was a direct result of the Islamic group al muhajiroun never being confronted because of cowardice views.
Last time I looked no member of the EDL,BNP, or ukip was threatening to kill Muslims for saying the queen is gay.
Your beliefs are just as big a problem to Muslim freedom than any isis terrorist.
Your great at slagging of white people... Well whooppee do, pick the easy fight, but your utterly silent to Mr Ahmed who won't let his daughter out without a make companion, won't let his daughter marry a non Muslim, is utterly outraged to the point of killing people for cartoons and couldn't possibly be his fault becuase my God... Look he's coloured.
Get a life
Where have I ever defended Islam?
I dislike fascists of whatever colour - be they white, like the BNP, EDL, UKIP or non-white - ISIS, Taliban, etc etc
I certainly have no love for religion - all the sides of the judeo-christian monotheistic coin are abhorrent to me.
It is you who have brought colour and religion into the debate, not me. It is you who make lazy stereotypes about "brown people", not me. .
It's not a lazy stereotype... Look around you, your unwillingness to call a problem a problem is the fucking problem!
You keep banging on about the edl or whoever but your failing to come to the obvious conclusion that all these groups are kept in check by current laws...
Nobody can incite racial crimes in this country... It's fucking illegal.
However.. Let's face facts
Where was out free speech when a dozen cartoonists were gunned down in Paris. You were all very quick with the je suis Charlie, but in reality not one single paper reprinted those cartoons.... CARTOONS blimey the utter bollocks of leftists (and I'm one myself) defending the printing of cartoons because it may upset someone enough for them to get a Kalashnikov and gun down journalists.
I truly despair
Explain to me how I defended the shootings of Journalists?
I didn't.
I don't like fascists of any colour. I don't like any of the judaeo-christian monotheistic religions (which includes Ialam).
However, Islam is not "brown people", there are plenty of black and brown christians, for example. ". Maybe it's me but right now... I'm not seeing the brown christian running amok in Paris with Kalashnikov's. I'm not seeing the Vatican issue death threats for books, I'm not seeing the fucking edl or ukip calling for different laws for different religions! The only people I'm seeing being fascists are to be honest with you Muslims... I dunno maybe that's why the other half of them who are half sensible wanna come to the west... Because we had a policy of not tolerating bullshit, that was until middle class white people got all giddy about looking coloured.. Next thing you know you'll wanna call fellow black people the n word and then you'll have made it to Mecca for your 70 virgins. I don't wish to be rude but honestly I've had enough of bullshit, I've read tonight that the problems of the entire world is the result of Britain and France imposing borders, I've read that global warming is bollocks because one guys read a website with a NASA report that confirms we'll be deluged in snow, one guys holidayed in the usa and for that he can absolutely confirm that Muslims are only killing Muslims because we're bombing them (only a year ago the chattering classes were utterly outraged we weren't doing anything about isis). I've got a fact for you, Muslims are killing Muslims on a bigger scale than the west could ever do, there doing it through the age old tradition of feudalism. It's got fuck all to do with anything the west has ever done, in fact if we'd just leave them alone to massacre each other, they wouldn't be bombing us (well not for awhile anyhow) but as usual we just can't help intervening in whole sale slaughter of women and children,rapping of children, subjection of homosexual's, stoning of adulterers.. Yeah the west... What a bunch of interventionist twats | |||
"I'm all for people using the right to freedom of speech. I also think people should exercise their right to remain silent more often .
I think we've remained silent far too much!
If you tolerate this, then your children will be next?.
Well it all depends, my children could be spouting unfounded bollocks on a website, in which case I wouldn't be happy
However they may just want to write a book called ooooh I dunno, satanic verses and have half the Muslim world want to kill them for it, including a large minority of UK citizens.
At that point I draw the line and say no, your culture and religious practises are beyond tolerable in a 21st century democracy.
And when you march with that banner that says "death to salman Rushdie" you will be arrested and you will be sent to jail...
If only they Were white hey, and not a down trodden brown minority with a cultural difference
You mean white like the EDL? The National Front? the BNP? UKIP?
I didn't realise all the abhorrent people were brown until you just told me.
You do realise there are black, Asian and mixed race people in UKIP. Leaving the EU is not a matter of race or skin colour.
Fascists aren't always white.
Funny you just commented on two separate posts earlier in this thread that UKIP is a 'white' group....your words not mine.
I lumped them in with the white fascists because they are overwhelmingly white. Kudos on some straw-clutching. I could create a whole other category of "mostly white" fascists and put them in it, if it helps.
So now they've gone from exclusively white to mostly white? Lol.
But most importantly, fascists. "That's your opinion, but as I said earlier wanting to leave the EU is not a matter of race or skin colour, wanting to leave the EU does not make someone a fascist either. | |||
"People really seem to confuse the concept of freedom of speech as in the legal right not to be persecuted for what they say by their government and freedom of speech the absence of any come back from others. You have freedom of speech here, but you walk to to a guy in the street and tell him you've sagged his wife and his daughter at the same time your protected rights mean nothing while he's hitting you. Freedom of speech, not freedom from consequence. " . That's just not true. The guy is breaking the law for hitting you, you are not breaking the law for telling him his wife's having an affair with you. You seem to be advocating it should be a dog eat dog world, where fist's out way rights! Been there done that, it doesn't work which is why we have the laws we have today | |||
"Are we heading towards a society where freedom of speech is a thing of the past. Surely as a democracy we should deal with alternative views, no matter how reprehensible they are through debate, rather than saying people should gagged? " No we ain't heading to it we are in it and been in it for awhile as section 5 public disorder proves | |||
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"People really seem to confuse the concept of freedom of speech as in the legal right not to be persecuted for what they say by their government and freedom of speech the absence of any come back from others. You have freedom of speech here, but you walk to to a guy in the street and tell him you've sagged his wife and his daughter at the same time your protected rights mean nothing while he's hitting you. Freedom of speech, not freedom from consequence. . That's just not true. The guy is breaking the law for hitting you, you are not breaking the law for telling him his wife's having an affair with you. You seem to be advocating it should be a dog eat dog world, where fist's out way rights! Been there done that, it doesn't work which is why we have the laws we have today" Try reading it gain. Yes the guy is breaking the law. However the laws protecting you from repercussions of what you say only apply to the state. Your personal responsibility governess your day to day interaction because the law can't be there to baby sit you all the time. The point was raised that we don't have freedom of speech if say some Muslim kills you for saying something about Allah. You do you were totally free to day that without being arrested. But equally you must accept there is a risk to what you say Consequences are inevitable no matter how much you are protected. Although if we were in America there are the "fighting words" laws. And we may have something similar here tbh. Threaten someone verbally and they can legally make a preemptive strike if they feel it's the best way to ensure their safety | |||
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"People really seem to confuse the concept of freedom of speech as in the legal right not to be persecuted for what they say by their government and freedom of speech the absence of any come back from others. You have freedom of speech here, but you walk to to a guy in the street and tell him you've sagged his wife and his daughter at the same time your protected rights mean nothing while he's hitting you. Freedom of speech, not freedom from consequence. . That's just not true. The guy is breaking the law for hitting you, you are not breaking the law for telling him his wife's having an affair with you. You seem to be advocating it should be a dog eat dog world, where fist's out way rights! Been there done that, it doesn't work which is why we have the laws we have today Try reading it gain. Yes the guy is breaking the law. However the laws protecting you from repercussions of what you say only apply to the state. Your personal responsibility governess your day to day interaction because the law can't be there to baby sit you all the time. The point was raised that we don't have freedom of speech if say some Muslim kills you for saying something about Allah. You do you were totally free to day that without being arrested. But equally you must accept there is a risk to what you say Consequences are inevitable no matter how much you are protected. Although if we were in America there are the "fighting words" laws. And we may have something similar here tbh. Threaten someone verbally and they can legally make a preemptive strike if they feel it's the best way to ensure their safety" . I've read it again, I just don't agree with you, your trying to put some sort of moral responsibility on people for drawing cartoons, as if there law abiding legal actions some how justified some people getting irate enough to gun them down in their offices!. That's just utterly abhorrent talk, it's like saying the guy beaten to death in a pub brawl somehow deserved it for looking at somebody the wrong way, at the same time your giving responsibility for legal actions your attempting to take away responsibility for illegal actions. That's a very dangerous path to follow! | |||
"Here here " | |||
"Here here
". Regardless of ones opinion, the western law of freedom of speech, freedom of thought and freedom of religions practise has stood the test of time and rose above all others. This self flagellation by western liberals of western cultural practise is like some sort of weird reverses psychology, there using freedom of speech to denounce it as bollocks that's upsetting to minority's!. I think they need to really study why all the immigrants wanna come to the west? | |||
"Freedom of speech is fine and a human right, as long as you take responsibility for it. I look at it slightly differently, I believe that it is the duty and responsibility of all of us to challenge those who say things which threaten our democracy and society as we know it. " Our democracy and society, as you put it, has changed drastically ever since democracy was introduced. Not that long ago, gay sex was taboo, no gay man who wanted to live would admit to being gay, women weren't allowed to vote, people kept slaves, our high streets have changed forever, home life is not what it was even 40 years ago. We have Speakers Corner where, until recently, anyone with a soapbox could say whatever they wanted without fear of being arrested by the thought police. Our democracy has been taken away from under our noses and no one said a thing. Every day our freedoms are being eroded, we are spied upon, our correspondence is checked, cctv cameras watch our every move. We don't live in a democracy, we live in what the government of the day decides to let us live in. | |||
"Freedom of speech is a myth in a society that claims to be politically correct. We are not free or democratic in the true sense of the words but it ok never the less. I don't subscribe to political correctness. That's why I mentioned Nigel Farage in a previous post as political correctness needs to be challenged. It's also interesting you mentioned democracy, as I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the EU (which Farage is also opposed to). " | |||
"Here here
.
Regardless of ones opinion, the western law of freedom of speech, freedom of thought and freedom of religions practise has stood the test of time and rose above all others.
This self flagellation by western liberals of western cultural practise is like some sort of weird reverses psychology, there using freedom of speech to denounce it as bollocks that's upsetting to minority's!.
I think they need to really study why all the immigrants wanna come to the west?"Who has denounced freedom of speech as bollocks? Certainly wasn't me. As I have pointed out - freedom of speech means that you can say whatever you choose. It also means that I have the same freedom to disagree with you. Are you going to be specific about which immigrants you mean, people come for all kinds of reasons, just like people emigrate for all kinds of reasons. | |||
"Curbing free speech is like taxing air. Nodoby should be allowed to do that. People should be allowed to say whatever they want, whenever they want, and let the words stand as a testament to their character – for good or bad." I don't agree. If a journalist called you a paedophile and that leads to people firebombing your house then the journalist should not have made the statement. It's no consolation when the journalist is successfully sued or the firebombers are arrested. Complete freedom of speach is a nice soundbite but not very practical. | |||
"Curbing free speech is like taxing air. Nodoby should be allowed to do that. People should be allowed to say whatever they want, whenever they want, and let the words stand as a testament to their character – for good or bad. I don't agree. If a journalist called you a paedophile and that leads to people firebombing your house then the journalist should not have made the statement. It's no consolation when the journalist is successfully sued or the firebombers are arrested. Complete freedom of speach is a nice soundbite but not very practical." Thats libel though isn't it? And again, the journalist could print it - its just that they would have to reap the legal consequences. | |||
"Here here
.
Regardless of ones opinion, the western law of freedom of speech, freedom of thought and freedom of religions practise has stood the test of time and rose above all others.
This self flagellation by western liberals of western cultural practise is like some sort of weird reverses psychology, there using freedom of speech to denounce it as bollocks that's upsetting to minority's!.
I think they need to really study why all the immigrants wanna come to the west?
Who has denounced freedom of speech as bollocks?
Certainly wasn't me.
As I have pointed out - freedom of speech means that you can say whatever you choose. It also means that I have the same freedom to disagree with you.
Are you going to be specific about which immigrants you mean, people come for all kinds of reasons, just like people emigrate for all kinds of reasons. ". I was actually commentating on the guy who was on the highlighted response. I'm not quite sure why you thought it was you I was replying to. | |||
