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Donald trump

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Opinions ?

I think he is one he'll of a baffoon and think he is a potential danger to world safety

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I hope he wins the Republican nomination so that the Democrats have a clear shot at the Presidency.

-Courtney

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Can you imagine when Boris gets in and if he gets in across the pond? Be chaos and buffoonery

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm thinking about shit hair now, maybe they use their hair as distractions?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

He's gone past the point of being funny, he legitimately scares me now

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Scary.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

the name isnt brill for starters

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

None of these people got to power by being buffoons, stupid, idiots, that is not possible. Good liars could pull that off though.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

He's only saying what the others are sca_ed to , I'm not saying that he's correct ??

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think maybe hes said what a lot of politicians where thinking tbh

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He's only saying what the others are sca_ed to , I'm not saying that he's correct ?? "

Nah, unless by others you mean the extreme right wing.

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

he doesn't scare me but the level of support he has terrifies me.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"he doesn't scare me but the level of support he has terrifies me.

I agree.

To think he could possibly be in charge is beyond comprehension....

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By *eavenNhellCouple over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

Him and boris are both pulling off the gaff prone buffoon act brilliantly whilst hiding their right wing views untill they get into power be very afraid remember Hitler was seen as a buffoon in his early days and we all know what happend

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

If this is him in charm offensive.if he got in he would cause carnage

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

His rhetoric will go down well with a large proportion of the US electorate

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By *inkyandperky555Couple over a year ago

swansea

He is only saying what others are thinking Good on him

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It amazes me to be honest, this man is gaining support for his Islamaphobic rhetoric as Americans are seriously worried about ISIS committing another attack on American soil, yet if he was to mention changing gun laws his challenge would die on its arse in a blaze of public outrage.

I find this mental because since 9/11 there have been 16 deaths due to terrorists on American soil.

There was over 11,000 gun deaths due to gun related crime in 2011 alone in America.

Go figure!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He is only saying what others are thinking Good on him

He isn't saying what a majority of Americans are thinking. He is saying what he thinks will get him elected in the primary with radical conservatives who are the majority of his fan base.

-Courtney

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"He is only saying what others are thinking Good on him

His last outburst will spawn attacks against Muslims in the USA.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

He's just an accomplished manipulator who uses all opportunities to expand on his previous propaganda.

He may get the right wing vote but definitely not the presidency. Much too small a vote would be accomplished nationally.

He's a bit of a one trick pony, bashing the political correctness and using a racist bent. Used car salesman manipulation.

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By *ucky1Man over a year ago

a straightjacket

I have a whole load of Americans on my facebook page, and he's saying what the majority of them are posting, so makes you wonder just how many other Americans silently agree.......Not saying he is right to say what he did thou

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He is only saying what others are thinking Good on him

Yeah, he's just providing a voice for those poor underrepresented xenophobic. Good on him

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By *oward1978Man over a year ago

Rotherham

This guy's a prize bell-end...not much more to add to that really. He takes ignorance to a whole other level. I guess he's been good at making money and that's about it. This recent outburst is worrying, to say the least

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

All the Republican candidates are ultra right wing religious fanatics, there's a very big swathe of people in the middle of America who they can appeal to.

Won't make any odds though as thankfully there's alot more sensible ones who live on the coast and will vote in Bernie

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I hope he wins the Republican nomination so that the Democrats have a clear shot at the Presidency.

-Courtney"

You think that'll make Hillary a shoe-in?

Bloody hope so!

The mere idea of that man with his finger on the nuclear button is enough to send shivers down my spine.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Boris is a star though.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"All the Republican candidates are ultra right wing religious fanatics, there's a very big swathe of people in the middle of America who they can appeal to.

Won't make any odds though as thankfully there's alot more sensible ones who live on the coast and will vote in Bernie

It is odd.

I was talking about Donald Trump to my daughter the other day - of course she thought the name *hilarious*, and I said, You think THAT'S funny? WAIT 'til you see him!

Which broadened in to a larger discussion of what the US Presidency means, who Barak Obama is and then I found an infographic from a couple of months back that showed all 18? candidates from both parties in the running.

I said to my daughter, look carefully at this. What do you see? It unmask something very important about the nature of politics...

"I don;t know," she says.

Look again. What do you see in common between these faces?

Of 18, 2 were women and 1 was a black man. All the others are old white men.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Boris is a star though. "
if he becomes prime minister I will give up on politics and leave the country, complete and utter tit !

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Boris is a star though. if he becomes prime minister I will give up on politics and leave the country, complete and utter tit !"

Thank you!

Bo-Jo - "Oh! But he's a legend! Just look at his hair! Wiff-waff! Oooh!" - don;t be taken in by that man.

He has a mind like a steel trap and would have half of us shot up against a wall given the opportunity.

Not to be trusted.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"All the Republican candidates are ultra right wing religious fanatics, there's a very big swathe of people in the middle of America who they can appeal to.

Won't make any odds though as thankfully there's alot more sensible ones who live on the coast and will vote in Bernie

It is odd.

I was talking about Donald Trump to my daughter the other day - of course she thought the name *hilarious*, and I said, You think THAT'S funny? WAIT 'til you see him!

I said to my daughter, look carefully at this. What do you see? It unmask something very important about the nature of politics...

"I don;t know," she says.

Look again. What do you see in common between these faces?

Of 18, 2 were women and 1 was a black man. All the others are old white men. "
.

The black guys a fucking religious fruit cake, one woman's a banking whore, the other holds no opinions on anything except hair and unbelievably the oldest whitest guy of them all is probably the best candidate by a country mile!.... And he's a socialist

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I hope he wins the Republican nomination so that the Democrats have a clear shot at the Presidency.

-Courtney

You think that'll make Hillary a shoe-in?

Bloody hope so!

The mere idea of that man with his finger on the nuclear button is enough to send shivers down my spine.

I do indeed think that Trump as the republican nominee would sink their chances in the general election. And they all know it. You can tell by how the republican party reacts to him. They just can't do anything about it because he is self funded.

Although I'm hopeful that it's Bernie, not Hillary, who sinks them. Hopeful, but not convinced.

-Courtney

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By *obbytupperMan over a year ago

Menston near Ilkley

Don't forget on occasions when Blair was out of the country we had John Prescott running the show.

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By *oward1978Man over a year ago

Rotherham

"I hope he wins the Republican nomination so that the Democrats have a clear shot at the Presidency.

-Courtney

You think that'll make Hillary a shoe-in?

Bloody hope so!

The mere idea of that man with his finger on the nuclear button is enough to send shivers down my spine.

That's it. It's not only the American's who would be screwed if this guy got in. The whole world would be bugge_ed too. A frightening prospect

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By *ldestswingerintownMan over a year ago

Lancaster

He's a nutter - older Fabbers might remember a similar extreme right-winger called Barry Goldwater from the mid-1960's who wanted to nuke everybody. All he did was frighten everybody and he got next to no votes. Hopefully the same for this present-day idiot!

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By *iss_tressWoman over a year ago

London

Yeah...like banning all Muslims will instantly put an end to the serial/spree/school etc killings in America.

No white American in its history has ever caused terror.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

One may almost think that Trump is trying to stir racial hat_ed and further division which he can then profit from politically..

Further to the point above about gun crime there have been over 350 mass shootings in the states this year and only one was by Muslim extremists.

Boris is dangerous and will break and bend the rules, ignore written constitutions and use public monies to bribe opponents to jump ship to achieve what he wants and when an elected body doesn't go the way he thinks they should he invents policy to over rule them. Yes he may act the buffoon but he has a nasty side too..

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Yeah...like banning all Muslims will instantly put an end to the serial/spree/school etc killings in America.

No white American in its history has ever caused terror.

George Bush springs to mind

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I hope he wins the Republican nomination so that the Democrats have a clear shot at the Presidency.

-Courtney

You think that'll make Hillary a shoe-in?

Bloody hope so!

The mere idea of that man with his finger on the nuclear button is enough to send shivers down my spine.

"
.

I like the idea that there's a big _ed button marked nukes and Donald may have his finger on it!...

It's bollocks of course and quite frankly there's been far more dangerous Presidentsw with "their finger on it".

I refer of course to tricky dicky who was talked out of nuking Vietnam by of all people Henry Kissinger in a cabinet meeting!

Then of course you had George bush the born again Christian who believes in that whacky fire and brimstone Armageddon ending of the bible!... Remember he admitted the lord spoke to him in his sleep.. Lord show me the evil people to nuke, let me be your vessel

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I hope he wins the Republican nomination so that the Democrats have a clear shot at the Presidency.

-Courtney

You think that'll make Hillary a shoe-in?

Bloody hope so!

The mere idea of that man with his finger on the nuclear button is enough to send shivers down my spine.

I like the idea that there's a big _ed button marked nukes and Donald may have his finger on it!...

It's bollocks of course and quite frankly there's been far more dangerous Presidentsw with "their finger on it".

I refer of course to tricky dicky who was talked out of nuking Vietnam by of all people Henry Kissinger in a cabinet meeting!

Bush didn't start a nuclear war, certainly, but has anyone bothe_ed to keep a tally of dead Iraqis?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I hope he wins the Republican nomination so that the Democrats have a clear shot at the Presidency.

-Courtney

You think that'll make Hillary a shoe-in?

Bloody hope so!

The mere idea of that man with his finger on the nuclear button is enough to send shivers down my spine.

I like the idea that there's a big _ed button marked nukes and Donald may have his finger on it!...

It's bollocks of course and quite frankly there's been far more dangerous Presidentsw with "their finger on it".

I refer of course to tricky dicky who was talked out of nuking Vietnam by of all people Henry Kissinger in a cabinet meeting!

Bush didn't start a nuclear war, certainly, but has anyone bothe_ed to keep a tally of dead Iraqis?"
.

Yeah it's about a million according to the _ed cross!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

How does someone like Trump with his comedy wig and franchise on the apprentice get to become presidential candidate - suppose it follows in the tradition of Reagan who was demented (Literally) for his last term and out acted by a primate.

What next - it was bad enough seeing Alan Sugar - who produced truly shite computers and nearly ruined my footie club get a knighthood for running the trump franchise. What next - will Alan get to run the country too - gawd help humanity!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You seem to love YouTube

Watch "President NIXON Suggests We Use the NUCLEAR BOMB!" on YouTube

https://youtu.be/CCD8d1mf1Dc

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

[Removed by poster at 09/12/15 11:59:55]

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Bush didn't start a nuclear war, certainly, but has anyone bothe_ed to keep a tally of dead Iraqis?.

Yeah it's about a million according to the _ed cross!"

Hmmm... makes Hiroshima & Nagasaki seem like small fry.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Bush didn't start a nuclear war, certainly, but has anyone bothe_ed to keep a tally of dead Iraqis?.

Yeah it's about a million according to the _ed cross!

Hmmm... makes Hiroshima & Nagasaki seem like small fry."
.

They were small bombs!

A modern day nuke would devastate a 30 mile radius and still have a kill rate of about 20% at a 70 mile radius!

Of course if you wanna be more snide about it you could always just fire of hund_eds of tonnes of depleted uranium all over Iraq, you get good results over a longer period!

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

i know a lot of you are american constitution fans and gonks.... so was looking ...

I reckon the plan is against the 1st ammendment, the 4th, 6th and 14th at least.... the good news it would be laughed out of court...

the one thing this has done is seperate himself from the rest of the republican field.... and knowing that it would destroy the mainstream republican party if he were to somehow win.....

now.... if only we can get bernie to beat hillary.....

p.s the keep trump out of the uk petition is now at 110,000....... i am sure we can find an "incitement to religious hat_ed" arguement in there somewhere.......

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Bush didn't start a nuclear war, certainly, but has anyone bothe_ed to keep a tally of dead Iraqis?.

Yeah it's about a million according to the _ed cross!

Hmmm... makes Hiroshima & Nagasaki seem like small fry..

They were small bombs!

A modern day nuke would devastate a 30 mile radius and still have a kill rate of about 20% at a 70 mile radius!

Of course if you wanna be more snide about it you could always just fire of hund_eds of tonnes of depleted uranium all over Iraq, you get good results over a longer period!"

You like big bombs?

Tsar bomba

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwlNPhn64TA

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Bush didn't start a nuclear war, certainly, but has anyone bothe_ed to keep a tally of dead Iraqis?.

Yeah it's about a million according to the _ed cross!

Hmmm... makes Hiroshima & Nagasaki seem like small fry..

They were small bombs!

A modern day nuke would devastate a 30 mile radius and still have a kill rate of about 20% at a 70 mile radius!

Of course if you wanna be more snide about it you could always just fire of hund_eds of tonnes of depleted uranium all over Iraq, you get good results over a longer period!

You like big bombs?

Tsar bomba

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwlNPhn64TA"
.

Ooo the tzar bomb, so big they had to decant it from 100 megatons to 50 just so the plane that dropped it could get away from it!

It set fire to the stratosphere and was felt in Finland over a thousand miles away!

No I'm not really keen on big bombs, prefer big tits

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By *edMan over a year ago

cambridgeshire

"Can you imagine when Boris gets in and if he gets in across the pond? Be chaos and buffoonery "

I'm sure Boris does well because we all know the political class is full of in-b_ed egotistical arses... As is he.. But as we career towards the big crash, with him we will all be shaking our heads and laughing.. ( a bit like if your granny farts loudly while in public

)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i know a lot of you are american constitution fans and gonks.... so was looking ...

I reckon the plan is against the 1st ammendment, the 4th, 6th and 14th at least.... the good news it would be laughed out of court...

the one thing this has done is seperate himself from the rest of the republican field.... and knowing that it would destroy the mainstream republican party if he were to somehow win.....

now.... if only we can get bernie to beat hillary.....

p.s the keep trump out of the uk petition is now at 110,000....... i am sure we can find an "incitement to religious hat_ed" arguement in there somewhere......."
.

I like constitutions, but the not infallible... Hence the term, "amendment".

Not that I think trumps got any clue of how to go about amending his haircut, let alone the us constitution.

All he's doing is trying to sound like a statesman.

I'd have thought he'd have learnt his lesson with the constant badgering for a birth certificate that came back to haunt him as well

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By *errygTV/TS over a year ago

denton

"i know a lot of you are american constitution fans and gonks.... so was looking ...

I reckon the plan is against the 1st ammendment, the 4th, 6th and 14th at least.... the good news it would be laughed out of court...

the one thing this has done is seperate himself from the rest of the republican field.... and knowing that it would destroy the mainstream republican party if he were to somehow win.....

now.... if only we can get bernie to beat hillary.....

p.s the keep trump out of the uk petition is now at 110,000....... i am sure we can find an "incitement to religious hat_ed" arguement in there somewhere......."
keep trump out of uk what about the hate preachers that granted british passports cant we have a petition to kick them out, trump has stated his opinion, he right on no go areas if i walked down a muslim area in a skirt would i be safe.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

"Boris is a star though. if he becomes prime minister I will give up on politics and leave the country, complete and utter tit !"

Dreadful man, with little difference from Trump.

Trump is just fanning the flames of fear, where he whips the more malleable minds into hat_ed of the bogeyman.

It's an old ploy, nothing new. People who are frightened are more tolerant of someone assuming power, so that their fears can be relieved. Dumb fuckers.

Trump has no chance of winning outright, the numbers needed just aren't there for him.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Opinions ?

I think he is one he'll of a baffoon and think he is a potential danger to world safety "

What world safety?

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By *sianmale89Man over a year ago

Stockport

wouldn't surprise me if he actually came close or became elected president in america tbh...

some of his opinions though deemed particularly unpopular in a lot of circles are now getting more and more support particularly on the keeping muslims side out or _educing immigration from mexico.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Remember Nigel Farage -- he picked up alot of support till he started to worry the professional politians and then the press started digging up rubbish to shut him up ! Donny T will never be elected but at least he doesnt worry about being so PC and goes on free speech.Right or wrong its a laugh and gets people talking

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i know a lot of you are american constitution fans and gonks.... so was looking ...

I reckon the plan is against the 1st ammendment, the 4th, 6th and 14th at least.... the good news it would be laughed out of court..."

Fabio, I actually am an American Constitution fan and I would have to disagree with you. What Trump had said is not overtly unconstitutional. It only becomes so in practice. The US government does not have to act equally when it comes to who it allows past its boarders, and indeed when a constitutional challenge was brought against airport security the federal courts determined that the 4th amendment protection against unreasonable searches and seizures does not apply at the boarders.

What Trump said could become unconstitutional if he applies it in certain ways (against Muslims who are US citizens, for example).

But what he said doesn't have to be unconstitutional to be wrong. So on that level Trump is proposing actions and policies that are the antithesis of humanistic. But this isn't much different to his views on Mexicans so I don't see why people are so surprised.

-Courtney

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

He is ok, he tells the truth what most thinks, but don't dare to say.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So it's true, he is related to Farage after all!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I hope he wins the Republican nomination so that the Democrats have a clear shot at the Presidency.

-Courtney"
I hope he gets his hair sorted

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"He is ok, he tells the truth what most thinks, but don't dare to say."

I haven't a clue where you come from but I can assure you I have never thought of banning muslims from anywhere.

closet racist I guess.

To say banning muslims is good for national security is NOT the truth it's a downright fucking lie.

Americans are more at risk from right wingers who have unessesary obsessions with guns

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think we need to all lobby bill Gates before he shuts down the Internet! !!

I'm hoping bill Gates responds with some kind of epic "wtf trump " video

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He is ok, he tells the truth what most thinks, but don't dare to say.

I haven't a clue where you come from but I can assure you I have never thought of banning muslims from anywhere.

closet racist I guess.

To say banning muslims is good for national security is NOT the truth it's a downright fucking lie.

Americans are more at risk from right wingers who have unessesary obsessions with guns"

Tbh it's disingenuous to bring economics into the danger of guns in the USA.

You'll find the vast majority of gun crime is most certainly not committed by right wing people.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sadly Trump IS speaking for a very large and growing part of the American population. I frequent YouTube for history stuff and the level of world knowledge of Americans is actually quite frightening and they feel the need to group people together as they have short attention spans. Fox News put some muppet up 6 months ago who said exactly what Trump said about London. The Americans actually believe it. And then repeat it as fact.

In the USA Muslims accounted for 6% of homicides. Jews accounted for 7%, Christians about 65% etc etc. But 'Its those Mussies' is all we get. They wouldn't DARE try it on with Jewish Americans! Americans don't have a clue about terrorism and confuse murdering bastards like the IRA (who they funded for 30 years until 9/11) with 'freedom fighters'. Hamas are evil terrorists because they are Palestinians bottled up in ghettoes fighting to get their homeland back. While Israel can murder as many women and children as it likes.

And here is the really frightening thing: More Americans have killed Americans in the USA than EVERY terrorist attack ever anywhere. Had those two people in San Bernardino been white Christians no one would have given a rats arse. Same shit different day in the USA but because they were Muslims then its a terrorist attack.

Trump wants to stop Muslims entering the USA. Well he seems to have missed the fact that the guy concerned was an AMERICAN born, raised, educated to degree level and in a responsible job. He never came in from anywhere....

Do NOT be too surprised if this time next year Donald Trump will be President elect of the USA.....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He is ok, he tells the truth what most thinks, but don't dare to say.

I haven't a clue where you come from but I can assure you I have never thought of banning muslims from anywhere.

closet racist I guess.

To say banning muslims is good for national security is NOT the truth it's a downright fucking lie.

Americans are more at risk from right wingers who have unessesary obsessions with guns"
That is right, maibe he should of worded it better and say the ISIS or something similar.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Opinions ?

I think he is one he'll of a baffoon and think he is a potential danger to world safety "

Unfortunately the man's a idiot and bad news is he's doing well in the polls , what does that say for the state's ?

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By *sianmale89Man over a year ago

Stockport

"Sadly Trump IS speaking for a very large and growing part of the American population. I frequent YouTube for history stuff and the level of world knowledge of Americans is actually quite frightening and they feel the need to group people together as they have short attention spans. Fox News put some muppet up 6 months ago who said exactly what Trump said about London. The Americans actually believe it. And then repeat it as fact.

Do NOT be too surprised if this time next year Donald Trump will be President elect of the USA.....

this guy knows his stuff/history I say well played mate

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Do NOT be too surprised if this time next year Donald Trump will be President elect of the USA.....

I am very glad you get your news of Americans from youtube and feel informed enough to make these sweeping generalizations

Now excuse me while I go fill out my absentee ballot for Trump in the primary.

-Courtney

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I am very glad you get your news of Americans from youtube and feel informed enough to make these sweeping generalizations

Now excuse me while I go fill out my absentee ballot for Trump in the primary.

-Courtney"

Oh dear... well I mentioned YouTube in the context of one aspect of their behaviour.

Now I first worked for an American company over 30 years ago. I have holidayed their twice for long periods with good friends there. I have also served alongside their military there and elsewhere. I also have the time now to study geopolitical influences and lectures and political study papers from both sides of the Atlantic. So no Courtney my knowledge of Americans started from a time before YouTube was even thought of. But its interesting you took time to make a personal put down and yet not for the many points with which you clearly disagree.....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Do NOT be too surprised if this time next year Donald Trump will be President elect of the USA.....

"
.

There all natural born residents, but then the opposing side will state that bombing Syria will create more terrorists, why hardly any of the Muslim terrorists have ever been bombed, most of them have lead dammed good life's in the west!

I blame YouTube, people watch shit on there made by some dipstick and think it's all true, loads of the foreign insurgents come straight home realising what a crock of shit YouTube is full off, some of them are so warped by YouTube bollocks they just keep on cracking on with it, there more than willing to suspend all rational thought because.... It must be true, I've seen the videos, I've read the Qur'an... Where's my fucking virgins, oh fuck it I'll just rape some kids in raqqa anyhow.

Deluded dysfunctional people will always fall for some load of bollocks...

As the saying goes, there's one born every minute

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Do NOT be too surprised if this time next year Donald Trump will be President elect of the USA.....

this guy knows his stuff/history I say well played mate

"
.

The claim about Americans killing more Americans is spurious at best,

The American civil war killed more Americans than every other war they've ever fought...

It's completely meaningless except to show the brutality of the American civil war!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No mention of all the American soldiers who died saving Muslim Kosovo from Christian Croatia either.

I mean Jesus a Muslim country saved by the west which turned into a secular Muslim country with a decent constitution and civil fucking rights for it's citizens... Yeah thanks a bunch yanks with your shite geography and history!

Americans aren't perfect and there foreign policy at times is bloody ludicrous but honestly... They saved more Muslims than fucking Muslims have!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The claim about Americans killing more Americans is spurious at best,

The American civil war killed more Americans than every other war they've ever fought...

It's completely meaningless except to show the brutality of the American civil war!"

I am sorry I thought as we were talking in the context of the aftermath of the San Bernardino gun massacre my remarks meant 'Americans killed more Americans with guns'. My apologies.

I should also have said 'in 2015' and not included the Civil War. The numbers are 8,500 gun deaths in 2015 so far. By terrorist attacks? Possibly 18. Again my apologies.

So its not a spurious number its a hard fact to the point where it was Obama who quoted it!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/oregon-college-shooting-obama-is-right-that-guns-kill-more-americans-than-terrorism-but-so-do-lots-a6676366.html

The raw data of how many gun murders and any murders take place in the USa is horrendous and it actually makes Trump's comments even more unbelievable. What he is saying is "Lets ban all Muslims because they are involved in 6% of Homicides but the other thousands of murders that take place committed by others are perfectly OK. No action needed there"

And my point was that Americans BELIEVE it.....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I am very glad you get your news of Americans from youtube and feel informed enough to make these sweeping generalizations

Now excuse me while I go fill out my absentee ballot for Trump in the primary.

-Courtney

Oh dear... well I mentioned YouTube in the context of one aspect of their behaviour.

I said what I said because I found you generalization offensive. I find it ironic when people are simultaneously angry that someone (in this case Trump) is negatively overgeneralizing, while doing the exact same thing themselves.

But anyway, if you want me to address your points about Americans, then I will. However, I do worry that your extensive knowledge of holidays and working for an American company might put my own experience to shame....

"Sadly Trump IS speaking for a very large and growing part of the American population. "

Trump is polling at between 28-37% of registe_ed Republican voters at the moment. That is not actually that large a proportion of the American public. It certainly isn't enough to be voted President.

"I frequent YouTube for history stuff and the level of world knowledge of Americans is actually quite frightening and they feel the need to group people together as they have short attention spans. Fox News put some muppet up 6 months ago who said exactly what Trump said about London. The Americans actually believe it. And then repeat it as fact."

You can't extrapolate American's knowledge of world history from whatever you have been seeing on youtube. American know as much about world history as any other group of people in the world. Some know more than others, some less. What is new about that?

Fox news is a very specific news source and is a biased sample. There are countless other new sources where American get their news. If you only look at Fox, then you are self-selecting, and proper data collection and analysis would ridicule this. To take Fox news and ignore CNN, MSNBC, BBC America, CBS, etc. etc. is to choose the information that will support your own negative biases about Americans.

I don't really know what to say about your "short attention spans" comment as it was completely conjectural, again just supporting your already negative beliefs.

"In the USA Muslims accounted for 6% of homicides. Jews accounted for 7%, Christians about 65% etc etc. But 'Its those Mussies' is all we get. They wouldn't DARE try it on with Jewish Americans! Americans don't have a clue about terrorism and confuse murdering bastards like the IRA (who they funded for 30 years until 9/11) with 'freedom fighters'. Hamas are evil terrorists because they are Palestinians bottled up in ghettoes fighting to get their homeland back. While Israel can murder as many women and children as it likes."

Again, you are just showing your own biases here. The differentiation between "terrorist" and "freedom fighter" is often just the difference between who they are killing. You are British, so you hate the IRA. American hate middle-eastern groups. There is no surprise there. The average American knows as much about terrorism as the average UK citizen. People who study the issue know more in both countries. Stupidity is not country specific.

"And here is the really frightening thing: More Americans have killed Americans in the USA than EVERY terrorist attack ever anywhere. Had those two people in San Bernardino been white Christians no one would have given a rats arse. Same shit different day in the USA but because they were Muslims then its a terrorist attack."

Yes, more Americans kill Americans than any other group. Here is the really scary thing....this is true of most countries....including the UK.

"Trump wants to stop Muslims entering the USA. Well he seems to have missed the fact that the guy concerned was an AMERICAN born, raised, educated to degree level and in a responsible job. He never came in from anywhere...."

The guy was American born, but his wife was not. She was born in Pakistan. That doesn't mean anything in itself, but the fact that you left it out means that you were either showing your selection bias yet again, or you didn't do as much research as your post would like to suggest.

"Do NOT be too surprised if this time next year Donald Trump will be President elect of the USA....."

I would be very surprised should Trump win the Presidential election. Very surprised. Not only does he not have the poll numbers at the moment to actually win, but he is crazy and most Americans know that.

Was that good enough to address your points?

-Courtney

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I am very glad you get your news of Americans from youtube and feel informed enough to make these sweeping generalizations

Now excuse me while I go fill out my absentee ballot for Trump in the primary.

-Courtney

Oh dear... well I mentioned YouTube in the context of one aspect of their behaviour.

"I worked for an American company & holidayed there twice."

LMFAO

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He is only saying what others are thinking Good on him

"
This. Definitely. Millions are thinking the same. We've got to the stage now that this planet needs cleaning. For all our sakes.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A councillor in towns calling for him tobe bar_ed from the city of Newcastle

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The claim about Americans killing more Americans is spurious at best,

The American civil war killed more Americans than every other war they've ever fought...

It's completely meaningless except to show the brutality of the American civil war!

I am sorry I thought as we were talking in the context of the aftermath of the San Bernardino gun massacre my remarks meant 'Americans killed more Americans with guns'. My apologies.

I should also have said 'in 2015' and not included the Civil War. The numbers are 8,500 gun deaths in 2015 so far. By terrorist attacks? Possibly 18. Again my apologies.

So its not a spurious number its a hard fact to the point where it was Obama who quoted it!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/oregon-college-shooting-obama-is-right-that-guns-kill-more-americans-than-terrorism-but-so-do-lots-a6676366.html

And my point was that Americans BELIEVE it....."
.

Donald trump is doing what all politicans do, galvanising his attention and using buzz words, right now lots of people are sca_ed about Muslim attacks, yeah the figures now are minuscule but the message they read is any minute now, they could step it up with gas attacks or dirty bombs, people are sca_ed and trump being the wanker he is, is playing on peoples fears!...

That being said I do get rather naffed off with this constant US bashing as if they really are the great Satan.

They may get lots of things wrong but they get many many things right and nobody ever remembers the good stuff, this fervent self flagellation western bashing by liberals is quite frankly disgusting at best and dangerous at worst.

The west have saved way more Muslims than all the Muslim countries put together have.

Syria,Iraq, Egypt, Libya they've been held together only by brutal dictatorship for decades, it's really really not America's fault that vast swathes of Muslims wanna butcher each other, honestly the western bashing by westerners and i include the western terrorist Muslim bashers....

It's just not true!

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

Do NOT be too surprised if this time next year Donald Trump will be President elect of the USA.....

this guy knows his stuff/history I say well played mate

Have to disagree, have spent time there on holiday and also worked with them in the military and guess what they are a broad spectrum as most other people are. Yes given the numbers there will be more than our little isle but as we do they also have fuckwits and as we do they have folks less so.

Ironically were it not for the sacrifices they made in the last war we wouldn't possibly be on a site such as this. Yes they have their faults as a nation and have made some shocking choices policy wise post 45 during the cold war. But show me a nation or an empire that hasn't?

There is no way trump will be in the white house next year, even middle of the road Democrats I think will vote against him as they know he's a fucking moron..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He is only saying what others are thinking Good on him

This. Definitely. Millions are thinking the same. We've got to the stage now that this planet needs cleaning. For all our sakes. "

millions were thinking the same about Farage too, - but obviously it's the question of 'how many millions' that really counts, - & in that bullshitter Farage's case, - not nearly enough millions!

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By *inky-MinxWoman over a year ago

Grantham

"To think he could possibly be in charge is beyond comprehension...."

He won't be in charge as such.

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"He is only saying what others are thinking Good on him

This. Definitely. Millions are thinking the same. We've got to the stage now that this planet needs cleaning. For all our sakes. "

Cleaning?

Unfortunate choice of words there.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"But anyway, if you want me to address your points about Americans, then I will. However, I do worry that your extensive knowledge of holidays and working for an American company might put my own experience to shame...."

You seem to like sarcasm as a debating method. Not sure it works too well to be honest...

"Trump is polling at between 28-37% of registe_ed Republican voters at the moment. That is not actually that large a proportion of the American public. It certainly isn't enough to be voted President."

Well not quite true. Only 4 days ago Clinton and Trump were tied on about 44% each. She is now 47% and he is 43.7%. Of ALL US Voters..

Source:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

"You can't extrapolate American's knowledge of world history from whatever you have been seeing on youtube. American know as much about world history as any other group of people in the world."

As I said YouTube is but ONE part of where I gain information. But its ONE way to see how other people comment and therefore show their knowledge and attitudes. And I have a circle of friends I have known for many years from working there and I get very similar attitudes there. I speak from MY experiences over many years.

"Again, you are just showing your own biases here. The differentiation between "terrorist" and "freedom fighter" is often just the difference between who they are killing."

With respect that is exactly MY point. Americans thought the IRA were 'freedom fighters' they patently were not. Did we bomb Dublin? No. did we demonise the Irish or Catholics like they are now doing to Muslims? No. I would suggest it is because we deal with terrorism better than Americans and because we actually understand that (like Muslims) not every Irishman or Catholic was an IRA terrorist even if every IRA terrorist back then was Irish and most likely a Catholic.

"Yes, more Americans kill Americans than any other group. Here is the really scary thing....this is true of most countries....including the UK."

Well you distort my point. Here in the UK the number of gun related Homicides are in the tens per annum (39 at last count) while in the USA it is the thousands. We do not have a gun problem they have a HUGE one but focus on the 6% not the 94% because they are Muslims.

"The guy was American born, but his wife was not. She was born in Pakistan. That doesn't mean anything in itself, but the fact that you left it out means that you were either showing your selection bias yet again, or you didn't do as much research as your post would like to suggest"

You are distorting again. I was making the point that the man concerned could NOT have been stopped at any border. Whether his wife could or not is irrelevant. And actually as his wife neither could she. So your point is?

And finally given he is neck and neck with Clinton in US wide (not partisan) polls right now I stick to my view we should not be surprised if he IS elected.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The claim about Americans killing more Americans is spurious at best,

The American civil war killed more Americans than every other war they've ever fought...

It's completely meaningless except to show the brutality of the American civil war!

I am sorry I thought as we were talking in the context of the aftermath of the San Bernardino gun massacre my remarks meant 'Americans killed more Americans with guns'. My apologies.

I should also have said 'in 2015' and not included the Civil War. The numbers are 8,500 gun deaths in 2015 so far. By terrorist attacks? Possibly 18. Again my apologies.

So its not a spurious number its a hard fact to the point where it was Obama who quoted it!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/oregon-college-shooting-obama-is-right-that-guns-kill-more-americans-than-terrorism-but-so-do-lots-a6676366.html

And my point was that Americans BELIEVE it......

That being said I do get rather naffed off with this constant US bashing as if they really are the great Satan.

The west have saved way more Muslims than all the Muslim countries put together have.

It's just not true!

No, it's not the USA's fault that Muslims in North Africa & the middle east want to butcher each other, I totally agree.

The same cannot be said for Britain & France though!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I worked for an American company & holidayed there twice."

LMFAO

Oh very clever... you missed out the 30 years ago, the length of time I worked there and then when I came back here and my service in the forces alongside them. Yep two holidays but with friends I have made over very many years. I suspect I have spent more time IN the USA, WITH Americans and talking WITH Americans than you have. But do please prove us wrong...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The claim about Americans killing more Americans is spurious at best,

The American civil war killed more Americans than every other war they've ever fought...

It's completely meaningless except to show the brutality of the American civil war!

I am sorry I thought as we were talking in the context of the aftermath of the San Bernardino gun massacre my remarks meant 'Americans killed more Americans with guns'. My apologies.

I should also have said 'in 2015' and not included the Civil War. The numbers are 8,500 gun deaths in 2015 so far. By terrorist attacks? Possibly 18. Again my apologies.

So its not a spurious number its a hard fact to the point where it was Obama who quoted it!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/oregon-college-shooting-obama-is-right-that-guns-kill-more-americans-than-terrorism-but-so-do-lots-a6676366.html

And my point was that Americans BELIEVE it......

That being said I do get rather naffed off with this constant US bashing as if they really are the great Satan.

The west have saved way more Muslims than all the Muslim countries put together have.

It's just not true!

No, it's not the USA's fault that Muslims in North Africa & the middle east want to butcher each other, I totally agree.

The same cannot be said for Britain & France though! "
.

Stop it, that's just nonsense, why do you think millions of fucking Muslims wanna come to the west..

Were the greatest thing the world has ever seen, were far from perfect don't get me wrong.

But honestly go live in Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iran or Saudi Arabia or Bahrain or Libya or

Go to the bastion of democratic Indonesia... Where 30% of the population think stoning adulterers is a good idea!!

Just go there and then come back and tell me, it's all the fault of the west

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"He is only saying what others are thinking Good on him

This. Definitely. Millions are thinking the same. We've got to the stage now that this planet needs cleaning. For all our sakes. "

Perhaps you could come up with something?

Maybe you could call it the "final solution" or similar.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He is only saying what others are thinking Good on him

This. Definitely. Millions are thinking the same. We've got to the stage now that this planet needs cleaning. For all our sakes.

Cleaning?

Unfortunate choice of words there."
Yes perhaps it was. Sounding like Hitler there! Ok, eradication of scum.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The claim about Americans killing more Americans is spurious at best,

The American civil war killed more Americans than every other war they've ever fought...

It's completely meaningless except to show the brutality of the American civil war!

I am sorry I thought as we were talking in the context of the aftermath of the San Bernardino gun massacre my remarks meant 'Americans killed more Americans with guns'. My apologies.

I should also have said 'in 2015' and not included the Civil War. The numbers are 8,500 gun deaths in 2015 so far. By terrorist attacks? Possibly 18. Again my apologies.

So its not a spurious number its a hard fact to the point where it was Obama who quoted it!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/oregon-college-shooting-obama-is-right-that-guns-kill-more-americans-than-terrorism-but-so-do-lots-a6676366.html

And my point was that Americans BELIEVE it......

That being said I do get rather naffed off with this constant US bashing as if they really are the great Satan.

The west have saved way more Muslims than all the Muslim countries put together have.

It's just not true!

No, it's not the USA's fault that Muslims in North Africa & the middle east want to butcher each other, I totally agree.

The same cannot be said for Britain & France though! .

Stop it, that's just nonsense, why do you think millions of fucking Muslims wanna come to the west..

Were the greatest thing the world has ever seen, were far from perfect don't get me wrong.

But honestly go live in Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iran or Saudi Arabia or Bahrain or Libya or

Go to the bastion of democratic Indonesia... Where 30% of the population think stoning adulterers is a good idea!!

Just go there and then come back and tell me, it's all the fault of the west

"Stop it, that's just nonsense. "

Oh I see, so France & Britain didn't carve up the Middle East after WW1 then?

Isolating tribal people either side of these lines & causing fucking mayhem!!

I wonder why the natives would want to leave there & come here, particularly as it's been mayhem ever since!

But yes, I'll stop it shall I, I mean we can't possibly mention that because it just isn't true, is it!

....next you'll be telling me that ISIS is not partly of our own making, so I won't even begin to mention it in fear of being told to 'stop it'!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A councillor in towns calling for him tobe bar_ed from the city of Newcastle

Which is fucking bollocks too. He's hateful but let's not pretend there aren't people who have similarly grotesque views who get an airing. As if he'd give a shit anyway

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I worked for an American company & holidayed there twice."

LMFAO

I'm not really aware of how long you worked there but as far as I can see, you haven't stated it anyway!

But working with the military? I hope that that wasn't a boast - because there's not a great deal to boast about on that one, particularly if you were referring to Iraq!

But you were very vague about that also.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

My turn! I don’t comment on the forums much, but since political analysis is what I do professionally, this seems like a good time to mix business and pleasure. I almost knocked Courtney down as I made my way to the computer.

You seem to like sarcasm as a debating method. Not sure it works too well to be honest...

Trump is polling at between 28-37% of registe_ed Republican voters at the moment. That is not actually that large a proportion of the American public. It certainly isn't enough to be voted President.

Well not quite true. Only 4 days ago Clinton and Trump were tied on about 44% each. She is now 47% and he is 43.7%. Of ALL US Voters.

Source:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html "

As an expert in American politics, I’m sure you can see how misleading this data is. First, primary results (especially at this stage) are notoriously inaccurate. Extreme candidates tend to do very well in primaries because they are run by the parties for internal support and not for a national constituency. This generally pushes candidates toward the extremes, and voters toward extreme candidates, only for both to go rushing back to the center as the general election approaches. This is why people like Herman Cain, Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich, Rick Perry, etc. have had brief moments of glory in the primaries, then come crashing down. On the Democratic side, Hillary Clinton was in the lead against Obama at this point in their primary campaigns and Howard Dean was winning in the one before that.

Second, few voters pay attention to the primaries. They attract the most politically active people – those with strong partisan views and policies they care deeply about. Sadly, this means that people with extreme prejudices are attracted to primaries, but that the more tolerant majority that isn’t as strongly aligned will show up for the general election.

Third, if you p_edicted victory in the general election based on polling results in this stage in previous elections you would be on a very consistent losing streak.

Fourth, there are simply too many candidates running right now for polling to be useful. The more candidates you have, the more they tend to break up the centrist constituency, giving the false appearance that fringe candidates are winning. As more Republicans drop out of the race, the numbers will change substantially.

"You can't extrapolate American's knowledge of world history from whatever you have been seeing on youtube. American know as much about world history as any other group of people in the world.

YouTube is a terrible way to collect information on what people think. Did you check the IP addresses of commenters to make sure they were American? Did you check their ages to make sure they’re not teenagers trying to provoke you?

Many years of experience, huh? As an educated person, you should check out what an “appeal to authority” is and why it’s a terrible way to frame an argument. Also, I probably have 30ish years more experience in the US. . . so I guess I win by your standards? Of course, I wouldn’t honestly suggest that. You don’t have to know an American or holiday there to have a right to your opinion. It’s only important that you avoid formulating an opinion based on social media comments.

"Again, you are just showing your own biases here. The differentiation between "terrorist" and "freedom fighter" is often just the difference between who they are killing.

Neither Americans nor Brits have much moral high ground when it comes to not bombing people. We’ve fought far more wars – decla_ed and undecla_ed – than anyone else over the past century. You may not have bombed Ireland, but you bombed plenty of other people and violence doesn’t always come from bombs. I am deeply disappointed with some of the things the United States has done in response to terrorism, but let’s try to avoid the kind of simplistic attitudes that lead to those missteps.

Also, some British people did demonize the Irish Catholics, and some British people do demonize Muslims. Look no further than people’s stance on taking Syrian refugees for evidence of this. No one has gone as far as Trump in saying they shouldn’t be allowed in, but some endorse policies that amount to nearly the same thing in practice.

More importantly, prejudice isn’t limited to Trump, or to the United States. He is part of a recent surge in right-wing populist political parties across North America and Europe. This is a cross-national phenomenon, and one that we should seek to address as such.

" Yes, more Americans kill Americans than any other group. Here is the really scary thing....this is true of most countries....including the UK.

America does have a gun problem. There’s no denying that. And it has had plenty of Christians who have engaged in terrorism or pose a threat of doing so. So yes, Trump is wrong. . . and yes, people who attempt to make generalizations about how threatening (or stupid) an entire group is are generally wrong.

" The guy was American born, but his wife was not. She was born in Pakistan. That doesn't mean anything in itself, but the fact that you left it out means that you were either showing your selection bias yet again, or you didn't do as much research as your post would like to suggest

Whether his wife is Pakistani is absolutely relevant because, as an attacker, it is important to know who she is, where she came from, and why she decided to do this. Based on Trump’s plan, she could have been stopped, but again I wouldn’t support that plan.

" And finally given he is neck and neck with Clinton in US wide (not partisan) polls right now I stick to my view we should not be surprised if he IS elected. "

To reiterate: Yes, you should be surprised if he is elected. You should be astounded. It would contravene virtually everything we know about how American primaries work and about general election voters’ preference for candidates who endorse centrist positions. Heck, it would even contravene the polling data you cited, which consistently shows that Clinton has the lead.

-Marc

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"A councillor in towns calling for him tobe bar_ed from the city of Newcastle

Which is fucking bollocks too. He's hateful but let's not pretend there aren't people who have similarly grotesque views who get an airing. As if he'd give a shit anyway

I don't recall any Newcastle councillors calling for Abu Hama to Abu Quatada to be bar_ed from the city when they were preaching their hat_ed.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"A councillor in towns calling for him tobe bar_ed from the city of Newcastle

Which is fucking bollocks too. He's hateful but let's not pretend there aren't people who have similarly grotesque views who get an airing. As if he'd give a shit anyway

I don't recall any Newcastle councillors calling for Abu Hama to Abu Quatada to be bar_ed from the city when they were preaching their hat_ed. "

*Abu Hamza

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

Americans are easily led and could make a mistake and vote him in they like nasty power crazed right wingers,ie Nixon Reagan,Bush need I say more

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"My turn! I don’t comment on the forums much, but since political analysis is what I do professionally, this seems like a good time to mix business and pleasure. I almost knocked Courtney down as I made my way to the computer.

You seem to like sarcasm as a debating method. Not sure it works too well to be honest...

Trump is polling at between 28-37% of registe_ed Republican voters at the moment. That is not actually that large a proportion of the American public. It certainly isn't enough to be voted President.

Well not quite true. Only 4 days ago Clinton and Trump were tied on about 44% each. She is now 47% and he is 43.7%. Of ALL US Voters.

Source:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

Third, if you p_edicted victory in the general election based on polling results in this stage in previous elections you would be on a very consistent losing streak.

You can't extrapolate American's knowledge of world history from whatever you have been seeing on youtube. American know as much about world history as any other group of people in the world.

Again, you are just showing your own biases here. The differentiation between "terrorist" and "freedom fighter" is often just the difference between who they are killing.

Yes, more Americans kill Americans than any other group. Here is the really scary thing....this is true of most countries....including the UK.

And finally given he is neck and neck with Clinton in US wide (not partisan) polls right now I stick to my view we should not be surprised if he IS elected.

-Marc"

That was a very eloquent and well thought out response to some utter horseshit. I don't know why you bothe_ed, but it made an interesting read nonetheless.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Game set match!

Marc rocks

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I hope those making sweeping declarations about the entirety of the American populace based on the views of a few, or what they've heard on social media, appreciate the irony

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By *UNCHBOXMan over a year ago

folkestone

"Bush didn't start a nuclear war, certainly, but has anyone bothe_ed to keep a tally of dead Iraqis?.

Yeah it's about a million according to the _ed cross!

Hmmm... makes Hiroshima & Nagasaki seem like small fry."

Over a million were slaughted in less than a 6 months in Rwanda because the US were sca_ed of getting involved. Thing is they are damned if the do, damned if they don't.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"Bush didn't start a nuclear war, certainly, but has anyone bothe_ed to keep a tally of dead Iraqis?.

Yeah it's about a million according to the _ed cross!

Hmmm... makes Hiroshima & Nagasaki seem like small fry.

Over a million were slaughted in less than a 6 months in Rwanda because the US were sca_ed of getting involved. Thing is they are damned if the do, damned if they don't. "

"Sca_ed"...yeeeees...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Americans are easily led and could make a mistake and vote him in they like nasty power crazed right wingers,ie Nixon Reagan,Bush need I say more"

Nixon, Reagan, and Bush won because they didn't run as being "power crazed right wingers." Bush actually won the primaries in large part because he opposed "nation building" and US military interventions in foreign countries. His second election owed quite a bit to 1) incumbent advantage and 2) a strong national preference for leaving presidents in place during wars. ALSO, he cheated. In both elections. There is a huge body of evidence attesting to vote rigging, especially in Florida and Ohio.

If you want to be worried about someone, be worried about the candidates who purport to be moderates for long enough to win the election, then change their policies afterwards. This is a more accurate characterization of what bad American presidents have done.

-Marc

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's just been in the radio (LBC) that 61% of UKIP supporters think what Trump said was appropriate.

30% of Tory supporters thought the same.

Unfortunately I went through a tunnel when it mentioned labour & SNP.

I'll try and listen out for them.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"A councillor in towns calling for him tobe bar_ed from the city of Newcastle

Which is fucking bollocks too. He's hateful but let's not pretend there aren't people who have similarly grotesque views who get an airing. As if he'd give a shit anyway

I don't recall any Newcastle councillors calling for Abu Hama to Abu Quatada to be bar_ed from the city when they were preaching their hat_ed. "

and thank you once again for showing up your ignorance of the Abu Qatada case....

if you are going to use it as an example, at least try to be correct...

Abu Qatada was never charged with ANY crime whilst living in the UK... not one! ( I mean..he only lived here in the UK for 20 years, its not like they never had time or anything....) he was then extridited to jordan where he was charged on two seperate occasions with different charges.... and found not guilty on both occasions.....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Bush didn't start a nuclear war, certainly, but has anyone bothe_ed to keep a tally of dead Iraqis?.

Yeah it's about a million according to the _ed cross!

Hmmm... makes Hiroshima & Nagasaki seem like small fry.

Over a million were slaughted in less than a 6 months in Rwanda because the US were sca_ed of getting involved. Thing is they are damned if the do, damned if they don't. "

Not much of a 'dammed if they do or don't' argument really, considering that there wasn't a war going on in Iraq at the time of invasion!

Most of us were against the second iraqi war, - hopefully at least.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

"Americans are easily led and could make a mistake and vote him in they like nasty power crazed right wingers,ie Nixon Reagan,Bush need I say more

-Marc"
I think your ignoring history in a very big way for some reason known to yourself

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Americans are easily led and could make a mistake and vote him in they like nasty power crazed right wingers,ie Nixon Reagan,Bush need I say more

-Marc"

thank you marc....

the way to win an american election is not to be pulled so far left/right to win the primaries that you can't tact back to the centre for the general election....

the problem the republicans have is that their candidates are so far to the right and being drawn even further to the right by the base.... it will be held against them in the general and there is no way they are going to be able to come back to the centre ground.....

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The claim about Americans killing more Americans is spurious at best,

The American civil war killed more Americans than every other war they've ever fought...

It's completely meaningless except to show the brutality of the American civil war!

I am sorry I thought as we were talking in the context of the aftermath of the San Bernardino gun massacre my remarks meant 'Americans killed more Americans with guns'. My apologies.

I should also have said 'in 2015' and not included the Civil War. The numbers are 8,500 gun deaths in 2015 so far. By terrorist attacks? Possibly 18. Again my apologies.

So its not a spurious number its a hard fact to the point where it was Obama who quoted it!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/oregon-college-shooting-obama-is-right-that-guns-kill-more-americans-than-terrorism-but-so-do-lots-a6676366.html

And my point was that Americans BELIEVE it......

That being said I do get rather naffed off with this constant US bashing as if they really are the great Satan.

The west have saved way more Muslims than all the Muslim countries put together have.

It's just not true!

No, it's not the USA's fault that Muslims in North Africa & the middle east want to butcher each other, I totally agree.

The same cannot be said for Britain & France though! .

Stop it, that's just nonsense, why do you think millions of fucking Muslims wanna come to the west..

Were the greatest thing the world has ever seen, were far from perfect don't get me wrong.

But honestly go live in Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iran or Saudi Arabia or Bahrain or Libya or

Go to the bastion of democratic Indonesia... Where 30% of the population think stoning adulterers is a good idea!!

Just go there and then come back and tell me, it's all the fault of the west

"Stop it, that's just nonsense. "

Oh I see, so France & Britain didn't carve up the Middle East after WW1 then?

Isolating tribal people either side of these lines & causing fucking mayhem!!

I wonder why the natives would want to leave there & come here, particularly as it's been mayhem ever since!

But yes, I'll stop it shall I, I mean we can't possibly mention that because it just isn't true, is it!

....next you'll be telling me that ISIS is not partly of our own making, so I won't even begin to mention it in fear of being told to 'stop it'!!

"
.

Your putting 2&2 together and coming up with 5.

For starters your assuming that these tribal people would have lived in some harmonious peace if we hadn't put borders in place!

We at that time carved up many many places in the world and it hasn't been chaos!

I'm sorry but your simplistic view that the west has caused all the world's ills is just factually wrong, we've laid our lives on the line for more freedoms than any other country on earth, the fact that your living in a free democratic country, with free speech, freedom of thought and freedom of religious practises is testimony to what I'm saying, your just not listening

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Bush didn't start a nuclear war, certainly, but has anyone bothe_ed to keep a tally of dead Iraqis?.

Yeah it's about a million according to the _ed cross!

Hmmm... makes Hiroshima & Nagasaki seem like small fry.

Over a million were slaughted in less than a 6 months in Rwanda because the US were sca_ed of getting involved. Thing is they are damned if the do, damned if they don't.

Not much of a 'dammed if they do or don't' argument really, considering that there wasn't a war going on in Iraq at the time of invasion!

Most of us were against the second iraqi war, - hopefully at least."
.

See your quick to condemn war but fuck me, everyone gives it to Blair and yes by God he made huge mistakes but let's not forget Sierra Leone or Kosovo!

I'm not condoning all British or American foreign policy, at times it's bordering on ludicrous but I'm telling you honestly, your way better off here than Indonesia

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

It's simple -

there's a lot of disaffected Americans now - we're a few years on from the crash, and Obama's shine has worn off: people aren't as wealthy as they'd like either. And the right wing media, as well as facets of the government, stokes the populations' fears.

Trump just manipulates their fears even more, saying anything that whips up fury against the bad guys. It's just manipulation and he's getting tons of free publicity there and around the world. C_edible politician - no.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"A councillor in towns calling for him tobe bar_ed from the city of Newcastle

Which is fucking bollocks too. He's hateful but let's not pretend there aren't people who have similarly grotesque views who get an airing. As if he'd give a shit anyway

I don't recall any Newcastle councillors calling for Abu Hama to Abu Quatada to be bar_ed from the city when they were preaching their hat_ed.

and thank you once again for showing up your ignorance of the Abu Qatada case....

if you are going to use it as an example, at least try to be correct...

You don't think his views or speeches were hateful then? If you think that then that shows your ignorance. I wasn't commenting on whether he had been convicted or not (that's actually irrelevant) just commenting on what he said in public, as people are commenting on what Donald Trump has said in public. For the record Donald Trump hasn't been charged with anything or found guilty of anything in any court of law either.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 09/12/15 22:57:36]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Americans are easily led and could make a mistake and vote him in they like nasty power crazed right wingers,ie Nixon Reagan,Bush need I say more

-Marc

thank you marc....

the way to win an american election is not to be pulled so far left/right to win the primaries that you can't tact back to the centre for the general election....

I completely agree. I think all of the extremism is encouraging in some ways because it means Republican candidates will lose badly and we'll have a nice Hillary or Bernie presidency.

- marc

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

We at that time carved up many many places in the world and it hasn't been chaos!"

Oh?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The claim about Americans killing more Americans is spurious at best,

The American civil war killed more Americans than every other war they've ever fought...

It's completely meaningless except to show the brutality of the American civil war!

I am sorry I thought as we were talking in the context of the aftermath of the San Bernardino gun massacre my remarks meant 'Americans killed more Americans with guns'. My apologies.

I should also have said 'in 2015' and not included the Civil War. The numbers are 8,500 gun deaths in 2015 so far. By terrorist attacks? Possibly 18. Again my apologies.

So its not a spurious number its a hard fact to the point where it was Obama who quoted it!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/oregon-college-shooting-obama-is-right-that-guns-kill-more-americans-than-terrorism-but-so-do-lots-a6676366.html

And my point was that Americans BELIEVE it......

That being said I do get rather naffed off with this constant US bashing as if they really are the great Satan.

The west have saved way more Muslims than all the Muslim countries put together have.

It's just not true!

No, it's not the USA's fault that Muslims in North Africa & the middle east want to butcher each other, I totally agree.

The same cannot be said for Britain & France though! .

Stop it, that's just nonsense, why do you think millions of fucking Muslims wanna come to the west..

Were the greatest thing the world has ever seen, were far from perfect don't get me wrong.

But honestly go live in Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iran or Saudi Arabia or Bahrain or Libya or

Go to the bastion of democratic Indonesia... Where 30% of the population think stoning adulterers is a good idea!!

Just go there and then come back and tell me, it's all the fault of the west

"Stop it, that's just nonsense. "

Oh I see, so France & Britain didn't carve up the Middle East after WW1 then?

Isolating tribal people either side of these lines & causing fucking mayhem!!

I wonder why the natives would want to leave there & come here, particularly as it's been mayhem ever since!

But yes, I'll stop it shall I, I mean we can't possibly mention that because it just isn't true, is it!

....next you'll be telling me that ISIS is not partly of our own making, so I won't even begin to mention it in fear of being told to 'stop it'!!

Your putting 2&2 together and coming up with 5.

For starters your assuming that these tribal people would have lived in some harmonious peace if we hadn't put borders in place!

We at that time carved up many many places in the world and it hasn't been chaos!

No dude, it's you who isn't listening/reading; I didn't say the west, I said Britain & France, - & only a fool couldn't see how the carving up of the middle east hasn't caused the chaos that now presides what with Shi'ites & Sunnis separated from each oother's people's by strategically stupid lines drawn in the desert.

Secondly: freedom of thought in a country where the media is heavily censo_ed, freedom of speech when protesters are set upon by a rogue police force, - the very mention of the word 'freedom' in the most watch people on the planet is in itself laughable at best!

And where was the 'freedom' for the Indians, the aborigines, the iris, or anywhere else in the the British (freedom) empire then?

Like I said, laughable at best!

Oh & to bring more of 'the west' into the arguement, of course there was the 'freedom' that we brought to the iraqi people from Suddam wasn't there, - of course I forgot about those hund_eds of thousands (at least) of civilians whom lost their lives due to the initial bombing & consequent mortar fire, - but hey, at least they've freedom now eh!

Oh wait.........

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 09/12/15 23:19:28]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Bush didn't start a nuclear war, certainly, but has anyone bothe_ed to keep a tally of dead Iraqis?.

Yeah it's about a million according to the _ed cross!

Hmmm... makes Hiroshima & Nagasaki seem like small fry.

Over a million were slaughted in less than a 6 months in Rwanda because the US were sca_ed of getting involved. Thing is they are damned if the do, damned if they don't.

Not much of a 'dammed if they do or don't' argument really, considering that there wasn't a war going on in Iraq at the time of invasion!

Most of us were against the second iraqi war, - hopefully at least..

See your quick to condemn war but fuck me, everyone gives it to Blair and yes by God he made huge mistakes but let's not forget Sierra Leone or Kosovo!

I'm not condoning all British or American foreign policy, at times it's bordering on ludicrous but I'm telling you honestly, your way better off here than Indonesia"
great comparison yet again!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

"The claim about Americans killing more Americans is spurious at best,

The American civil war killed more Americans than every other war they've ever fought...

It's completely meaningless except to show the brutality of the American civil war!

I am sorry I thought as we were talking in the context of the aftermath of the San Bernardino gun massacre my remarks meant 'Americans killed more Americans with guns'. My apologies.

I should also have said 'in 2015' and not included the Civil War. The numbers are 8,500 gun deaths in 2015 so far. By terrorist attacks? Possibly 18. Again my apologies.

So its not a spurious number its a hard fact to the point where it was Obama who quoted it!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/oregon-college-shooting-obama-is-right-that-guns-kill-more-americans-than-terrorism-but-so-do-lots-a6676366.html

And my point was that Americans BELIEVE it......

That being said I do get rather naffed off with this constant US bashing as if they really are the great Satan.

The west have saved way more Muslims than all the Muslim countries put together have.

It's just not true!

No, it's not the USA's fault that Muslims in North Africa & the middle east want to butcher each other, I totally agree.

The same cannot be said for Britain & France though! .

Stop it, that's just nonsense, why do you think millions of fucking Muslims wanna come to the west..

Were the greatest thing the world has ever seen, were far from perfect don't get me wrong.

But honestly go live in Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iran or Saudi Arabia or Bahrain or Libya or

Go to the bastion of democratic Indonesia... Where 30% of the population think stoning adulterers is a good idea!!

Just go there and then come back and tell me, it's all the fault of the west

"Stop it, that's just nonsense. "

Oh I see, so France & Britain didn't carve up the Middle East after WW1 then?

Isolating tribal people either side of these lines & causing fucking mayhem!!

I wonder why the natives would want to leave there & come here, particularly as it's been mayhem ever since!

But yes, I'll stop it shall I, I mean we can't possibly mention that because it just isn't true, is it!

....next you'll be telling me that ISIS is not partly of our own making, so I won't even begin to mention it in fear of being told to 'stop it'!!

Your putting 2&2 together and coming up with 5.

For starters your assuming that these tribal people would have lived in some harmonious peace if we hadn't put borders in place!

We at that time carved up many many places in the world and it hasn't been chaos!

And where was the 'freedom' for the Indians, the aborigines, the iris, or anywhere else in the the British (freedom) empire then?

Like I said, laughable at best!

Oh wait.........

It is very easy to look at the past and say what we do was wrong, however the challenge and I'll extend it to you as you are clearly very knowledgeable, is to come up with a workable solution.

Sadly nobody has a better answer, unless you can tell us otherwise. Stop the War is not an answer, it is appeasement and we have been there before...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"The claim about Americans killing more Americans is spurious at best,

The American civil war killed more Americans than every other war they've ever fought...

It's completely meaningless except to show the brutality of the American civil war!

I am sorry I thought as we were talking in the context of the aftermath of the San Bernardino gun massacre my remarks meant 'Americans killed more Americans with guns'. My apologies.

I should also have said 'in 2015' and not included the Civil War. The numbers are 8,500 gun deaths in 2015 so far. By terrorist attacks? Possibly 18. Again my apologies.

So its not a spurious number its a hard fact to the point where it was Obama who quoted it!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/oregon-college-shooting-obama-is-right-that-guns-kill-more-americans-than-terrorism-but-so-do-lots-a6676366.html

And my point was that Americans BELIEVE it......

That being said I do get rather naffed off with this constant US bashing as if they really are the great Satan.

The west have saved way more Muslims than all the Muslim countries put together have.

It's just not true!

No, it's not the USA's fault that Muslims in North Africa & the middle east want to butcher each other, I totally agree.

The same cannot be said for Britain & France though! .

Stop it, that's just nonsense, why do you think millions of fucking Muslims wanna come to the west..

Were the greatest thing the world has ever seen, were far from perfect don't get me wrong.

But honestly go live in Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iran or Saudi Arabia or Bahrain or Libya or

Go to the bastion of democratic Indonesia... Where 30% of the population think stoning adulterers is a good idea!!

Just go there and then come back and tell me, it's all the fault of the west

"Stop it, that's just nonsense. "

Oh I see, so France & Britain didn't carve up the Middle East after WW1 then?

Isolating tribal people either side of these lines & causing fucking mayhem!!

I wonder why the natives would want to leave there & come here, particularly as it's been mayhem ever since!

But yes, I'll stop it shall I, I mean we can't possibly mention that because it just isn't true, is it!

....next you'll be telling me that ISIS is not partly of our own making, so I won't even begin to mention it in fear of being told to 'stop it'!!

Your putting 2&2 together and coming up with 5.

For starters your assuming that these tribal people would have lived in some harmonious peace if we hadn't put borders in place!

We at that time carved up many many places in the world and it hasn't been chaos!

And where was the 'freedom' for the Indians, the aborigines, the iris, or anywhere else in the the British (freedom) empire then?

Like I said, laughable at best!

Oh wait.........

It is very easy to look at the past and say what we do was wrong, however the challenge and I'll extend it to you as you are clearly very knowledgeable, is to come up with a workable solution.

Sadly nobody has a better answer, unless you can tell us otherwise. Stop the War is not an answer, it is appeasement and we have been there before..."

Neither is bombing syria.

If you can't work out why - I'll give you a clue.

"Don't poke the bear"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ikeC2012Man over a year ago

Peterborough

"He's only saying what the others are sca_ed to , I'm not saying that he's correct ?? "

Sca_ed through ignorance maybe

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"The claim about Americans killing more Americans is spurious at best,

The American civil war killed more Americans than every other war they've ever fought...

It's completely meaningless except to show the brutality of the American civil war!

I am sorry I thought as we were talking in the context of the aftermath of the San Bernardino gun massacre my remarks meant 'Americans killed more Americans with guns'. My apologies.

I should also have said 'in 2015' and not included the Civil War. The numbers are 8,500 gun deaths in 2015 so far. By terrorist attacks? Possibly 18. Again my apologies.

So its not a spurious number its a hard fact to the point where it was Obama who quoted it!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/oregon-college-shooting-obama-is-right-that-guns-kill-more-americans-than-terrorism-but-so-do-lots-a6676366.html

And my point was that Americans BELIEVE it......

That being said I do get rather naffed off with this constant US bashing as if they really are the great Satan.

The west have saved way more Muslims than all the Muslim countries put together have.

It's just not true!

No, it's not the USA's fault that Muslims in North Africa & the middle east want to butcher each other, I totally agree.

The same cannot be said for Britain & France though! .

Stop it, that's just nonsense, why do you think millions of fucking Muslims wanna come to the west..

Were the greatest thing the world has ever seen, were far from perfect don't get me wrong.

But honestly go live in Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iran or Saudi Arabia or Bahrain or Libya or

Go to the bastion of democratic Indonesia... Where 30% of the population think stoning adulterers is a good idea!!

Just go there and then come back and tell me, it's all the fault of the west

"Stop it, that's just nonsense. "

Oh I see, so France & Britain didn't carve up the Middle East after WW1 then?

Isolating tribal people either side of these lines & causing fucking mayhem!!

I wonder why the natives would want to leave there & come here, particularly as it's been mayhem ever since!

But yes, I'll stop it shall I, I mean we can't possibly mention that because it just isn't true, is it!

....next you'll be telling me that ISIS is not partly of our own making, so I won't even begin to mention it in fear of being told to 'stop it'!!

Your putting 2&2 together and coming up with 5.

For starters your assuming that these tribal people would have lived in some harmonious peace if we hadn't put borders in place!

We at that time carved up many many places in the world and it hasn't been chaos!

And where was the 'freedom' for the Indians, the aborigines, the iris, or anywhere else in the the British (freedom) empire then?

Like I said, laughable at best!

Oh wait.........

The evil British empire, lol.

Do you also condemn the Roman empire before that or the Persian empire?

What about the hund_eds of thousands (at least) of iraqi civilians who died under Saddam Hussain rule? Do you think they were free before?

Also your comments about freedom in the USA, sounds very similar to the EU's version of freedom (protestors being set upon and being among the most watched) we have here in Europe.

Still you can try protesting in China, Russia or North Korea and you'll probably end up locked in a jail cell and tortu_ed or dead for your trouble.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

"The claim about Americans killing more Americans is spurious at best,

The American civil war killed more Americans than every other war they've ever fought...

It's completely meaningless except to show the brutality of the American civil war!

I am sorry I thought as we were talking in the context of the aftermath of the San Bernardino gun massacre my remarks meant 'Americans killed more Americans with guns'. My apologies.

I should also have said 'in 2015' and not included the Civil War. The numbers are 8,500 gun deaths in 2015 so far. By terrorist attacks? Possibly 18. Again my apologies.

So its not a spurious number its a hard fact to the point where it was Obama who quoted it!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/oregon-college-shooting-obama-is-right-that-guns-kill-more-americans-than-terrorism-but-so-do-lots-a6676366.html

And my point was that Americans BELIEVE it......

That being said I do get rather naffed off with this constant US bashing as if they really are the great Satan.

The west have saved way more Muslims than all the Muslim countries put together have.

It's just not true!

No, it's not the USA's fault that Muslims in North Africa & the middle east want to butcher each other, I totally agree.

The same cannot be said for Britain & France though! .

Stop it, that's just nonsense, why do you think millions of fucking Muslims wanna come to the west..

Were the greatest thing the world has ever seen, were far from perfect don't get me wrong.

But honestly go live in Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iran or Saudi Arabia or Bahrain or Libya or

Go to the bastion of democratic Indonesia... Where 30% of the population think stoning adulterers is a good idea!!

Just go there and then come back and tell me, it's all the fault of the west

"Stop it, that's just nonsense. "

Oh I see, so France & Britain didn't carve up the Middle East after WW1 then?

Isolating tribal people either side of these lines & causing fucking mayhem!!

I wonder why the natives would want to leave there & come here, particularly as it's been mayhem ever since!

But yes, I'll stop it shall I, I mean we can't possibly mention that because it just isn't true, is it!

....next you'll be telling me that ISIS is not partly of our own making, so I won't even begin to mention it in fear of being told to 'stop it'!!

Your putting 2&2 together and coming up with 5.

For starters your assuming that these tribal people would have lived in some harmonious peace if we hadn't put borders in place!

We at that time carved up many many places in the world and it hasn't been chaos!

And where was the 'freedom' for the Indians, the aborigines, the iris, or anywhere else in the the British (freedom) empire then?

Like I said, laughable at best!

Oh wait.........

It is very easy to look at the past and say what we do was wrong, however the challenge and I'll extend it to you as you are clearly very knowledgeable, is to come up with a workable solution.

Sadly nobody has a better answer, unless you can tell us otherwise. Stop the War is not an answer, it is appeasement and we have been there before...

Neither is bombing syria.

If you can't work out why - I'll give you a clue.

"Don't poke the bear""

That's an intelligent & well thought through answer - do we just burn the sticks then?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"The claim about Americans killing more Americans is spurious at best,

The American civil war killed more Americans than every other war they've ever fought...

It's completely meaningless except to show the brutality of the American civil war!

I am sorry I thought as we were talking in the context of the aftermath of the San Bernardino gun massacre my remarks meant 'Americans killed more Americans with guns'. My apologies.

I should also have said 'in 2015' and not included the Civil War. The numbers are 8,500 gun deaths in 2015 so far. By terrorist attacks? Possibly 18. Again my apologies.

So its not a spurious number its a hard fact to the point where it was Obama who quoted it!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/oregon-college-shooting-obama-is-right-that-guns-kill-more-americans-than-terrorism-but-so-do-lots-a6676366.html

And my point was that Americans BELIEVE it......

That being said I do get rather naffed off with this constant US bashing as if they really are the great Satan.

The west have saved way more Muslims than all the Muslim countries put together have.

It's just not true!

No, it's not the USA's fault that Muslims in North Africa & the middle east want to butcher each other, I totally agree.

The same cannot be said for Britain & France though! .

Stop it, that's just nonsense, why do you think millions of fucking Muslims wanna come to the west..

Were the greatest thing the world has ever seen, were far from perfect don't get me wrong.

But honestly go live in Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iran or Saudi Arabia or Bahrain or Libya or

Go to the bastion of democratic Indonesia... Where 30% of the population think stoning adulterers is a good idea!!

Just go there and then come back and tell me, it's all the fault of the west

"Stop it, that's just nonsense. "

Oh I see, so France & Britain didn't carve up the Middle East after WW1 then?

Isolating tribal people either side of these lines & causing fucking mayhem!!

I wonder why the natives would want to leave there & come here, particularly as it's been mayhem ever since!

But yes, I'll stop it shall I, I mean we can't possibly mention that because it just isn't true, is it!

....next you'll be telling me that ISIS is not partly of our own making, so I won't even begin to mention it in fear of being told to 'stop it'!!

Your putting 2&2 together and coming up with 5.

For starters your assuming that these tribal people would have lived in some harmonious peace if we hadn't put borders in place!

We at that time carved up many many places in the world and it hasn't been chaos!

And where was the 'freedom' for the Indians, the aborigines, the iris, or anywhere else in the the British (freedom) empire then?

Like I said, laughable at best!

Oh wait.........

The evil British empire, lol.

Do you also condemn the Roman empire before that or the Persian empire?

What about the hund_eds of thousands (at least) of iraqi civilians who died under Saddam Hussain rule? Do you think they were free before?

Also your comments about freedom in the USA, sounds very similar to the EU's version of freedom (protestors being set upon and being among the most watched) we have here in Europe.

Still you can try protesting in China, Russia or North Korea and you'll probably end up locked in a jail cell and tortu_ed or dead for your trouble. "

I don't know why the notion of the British Empire being evil is laughable to you - Lets not forget that amongst other accolades, we are one of the only nations to have actually committed genocide.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

"The claim about Americans killing more Americans is spurious at best,

The American civil war killed more Americans than every other war they've ever fought...

It's completely meaningless except to show the brutality of the American civil war!

I am sorry I thought as we were talking in the context of the aftermath of the San Bernardino gun massacre my remarks meant 'Americans killed more Americans with guns'. My apologies.

I should also have said 'in 2015' and not included the Civil War. The numbers are 8,500 gun deaths in 2015 so far. By terrorist attacks? Possibly 18. Again my apologies.

So its not a spurious number its a hard fact to the point where it was Obama who quoted it!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/oregon-college-shooting-obama-is-right-that-guns-kill-more-americans-than-terrorism-but-so-do-lots-a6676366.html

And my point was that Americans BELIEVE it......

That being said I do get rather naffed off with this constant US bashing as if they really are the great Satan.

The west have saved way more Muslims than all the Muslim countries put together have.

It's just not true!

No, it's not the USA's fault that Muslims in North Africa & the middle east want to butcher each other, I totally agree.

The same cannot be said for Britain & France though! .

Stop it, that's just nonsense, why do you think millions of fucking Muslims wanna come to the west..

Were the greatest thing the world has ever seen, were far from perfect don't get me wrong.

But honestly go live in Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iran or Saudi Arabia or Bahrain or Libya or

Go to the bastion of democratic Indonesia... Where 30% of the population think stoning adulterers is a good idea!!

Just go there and then come back and tell me, it's all the fault of the west

"Stop it, that's just nonsense. "

Oh I see, so France & Britain didn't carve up the Middle East after WW1 then?

Isolating tribal people either side of these lines & causing fucking mayhem!!

I wonder why the natives would want to leave there & come here, particularly as it's been mayhem ever since!

But yes, I'll stop it shall I, I mean we can't possibly mention that because it just isn't true, is it!

....next you'll be telling me that ISIS is not partly of our own making, so I won't even begin to mention it in fear of being told to 'stop it'!!

Your putting 2&2 together and coming up with 5.

For starters your assuming that these tribal people would have lived in some harmonious peace if we hadn't put borders in place!

We at that time carved up many many places in the world and it hasn't been chaos!

And where was the 'freedom' for the Indians, the aborigines, the iris, or anywhere else in the the British (freedom) empire then?

Like I said, laughable at best!

Oh wait.........

The evil British empire, lol.

Do you also condemn the Roman empire before that or the Persian empire?

What about the hund_eds of thousands (at least) of iraqi civilians who died under Saddam Hussain rule? Do you think they were free before?

Also your comments about freedom in the USA, sounds very similar to the EU's version of freedom (protestors being set upon and being among the most watched) we have here in Europe.

Still you can try protesting in China, Russia or North Korea and you'll probably end up locked in a jail cell and tortu_ed or dead for your trouble.

I don't know why the notion of the British Empire being evil is laughable to you - Lets not forget that amongst other accolades, we are one of the only nations to have actually committed genocide. "

Perhaps we should stop living in the past and consider the future. The U.K., like pretty much every country/empire did things that are not acceptable now. However, what is acceptable, how should the world behave, how can we stop people trafficking, drugs, terrorism, homophobia, women being abused and not treated as equals? If we all spent more time and effort creating a better future rather than arguing the past was wrong then perhaps we would stop repeating history...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"The claim about Americans killing more Americans is spurious at best,

The American civil war killed more Americans than every other war they've ever fought...

It's completely meaningless except to show the brutality of the American civil war!

I am sorry I thought as we were talking in the context of the aftermath of the San Bernardino gun massacre my remarks meant 'Americans killed more Americans with guns'. My apologies.

I should also have said 'in 2015' and not included the Civil War. The numbers are 8,500 gun deaths in 2015 so far. By terrorist attacks? Possibly 18. Again my apologies.

So its not a spurious number its a hard fact to the point where it was Obama who quoted it!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/oregon-college-shooting-obama-is-right-that-guns-kill-more-americans-than-terrorism-but-so-do-lots-a6676366.html

And my point was that Americans BELIEVE it......

That being said I do get rather naffed off with this constant US bashing as if they really are the great Satan.

The west have saved way more Muslims than all the Muslim countries put together have.

It's just not true!

No, it's not the USA's fault that Muslims in North Africa & the middle east want to butcher each other, I totally agree.

The same cannot be said for Britain & France though! .

Stop it, that's just nonsense, why do you think millions of fucking Muslims wanna come to the west..

Were the greatest thing the world has ever seen, were far from perfect don't get me wrong.

But honestly go live in Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iran or Saudi Arabia or Bahrain or Libya or

Go to the bastion of democratic Indonesia... Where 30% of the population think stoning adulterers is a good idea!!

Just go there and then come back and tell me, it's all the fault of the west

"Stop it, that's just nonsense. "

Oh I see, so France & Britain didn't carve up the Middle East after WW1 then?

Isolating tribal people either side of these lines & causing fucking mayhem!!

I wonder why the natives would want to leave there & come here, particularly as it's been mayhem ever since!

But yes, I'll stop it shall I, I mean we can't possibly mention that because it just isn't true, is it!

....next you'll be telling me that ISIS is not partly of our own making, so I won't even begin to mention it in fear of being told to 'stop it'!!

Your putting 2&2 together and coming up with 5.

For starters your assuming that these tribal people would have lived in some harmonious peace if we hadn't put borders in place!

We at that time carved up many many places in the world and it hasn't been chaos!

And where was the 'freedom' for the Indians, the aborigines, the iris, or anywhere else in the the British (freedom) empire then?

Like I said, laughable at best!

Oh wait.........

It is very easy to look at the past and say what we do was wrong, however the challenge and I'll extend it to you as you are clearly very knowledgeable, is to come up with a workable solution.

Sadly nobody has a better answer, unless you can tell us otherwise. Stop the War is not an answer, it is appeasement and we have been there before...

Neither is bombing syria.

If you can't work out why - I'll give you a clue.

"Don't poke the bear"

That's an intelligent & well thought through answer - do we just burn the sticks then?"

We could attempt some sort of diplomacy - as it is, it looks like we will do the following:

We will bomb ISIS in Syria - it won't work, just like bombing didn't work in Iraq or Afganistan. We will then look towards putting boots on the ground.

And then what? We won't side with Assad (we armed ISIS when we thought they were random insurgents specifically so that they might topple Assad. Oops). So then, we should look for other forces to back to bring friendly democracy to Syria (As we did in other conflicts in the middle east).....

Except for the fact that there are currently three groups bombing ISIS - the "coalition", Assad and Russia.

Russia are bombing ISIS because they gave allied themselves to Assad.....

and so......

(you work out the rest)

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"The claim about Americans killing more Americans is spurious at best,

The American civil war killed more Americans than every other war they've ever fought...

It's completely meaningless except to show the brutality of the American civil war!

I am sorry I thought as we were talking in the context of the aftermath of the San Bernardino gun massacre my remarks meant 'Americans killed more Americans with guns'. My apologies.

I should also have said 'in 2015' and not included the Civil War. The numbers are 8,500 gun deaths in 2015 so far. By terrorist attacks? Possibly 18. Again my apologies.

So its not a spurious number its a hard fact to the point where it was Obama who quoted it!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/oregon-college-shooting-obama-is-right-that-guns-kill-more-americans-than-terrorism-but-so-do-lots-a6676366.html

And my point was that Americans BELIEVE it......

That being said I do get rather naffed off with this constant US bashing as if they really are the great Satan.

The west have saved way more Muslims than all the Muslim countries put together have.

It's just not true!

No, it's not the USA's fault that Muslims in North Africa & the middle east want to butcher each other, I totally agree.

The same cannot be said for Britain & France though! .

Stop it, that's just nonsense, why do you think millions of fucking Muslims wanna come to the west..

Were the greatest thing the world has ever seen, were far from perfect don't get me wrong.

But honestly go live in Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iran or Saudi Arabia or Bahrain or Libya or

Go to the bastion of democratic Indonesia... Where 30% of the population think stoning adulterers is a good idea!!

Just go there and then come back and tell me, it's all the fault of the west

"Stop it, that's just nonsense. "

Oh I see, so France & Britain didn't carve up the Middle East after WW1 then?

Isolating tribal people either side of these lines & causing fucking mayhem!!

I wonder why the natives would want to leave there & come here, particularly as it's been mayhem ever since!

But yes, I'll stop it shall I, I mean we can't possibly mention that because it just isn't true, is it!

....next you'll be telling me that ISIS is not partly of our own making, so I won't even begin to mention it in fear of being told to 'stop it'!!

Your putting 2&2 together and coming up with 5.

For starters your assuming that these tribal people would have lived in some harmonious peace if we hadn't put borders in place!

We at that time carved up many many places in the world and it hasn't been chaos!

And where was the 'freedom' for the Indians, the aborigines, the iris, or anywhere else in the the British (freedom) empire then?

Like I said, laughable at best!

Oh wait.........

The evil British empire, lol.

Do you also condemn the Roman empire before that or the Persian empire?

What about the hund_eds of thousands (at least) of iraqi civilians who died under Saddam Hussain rule? Do you think they were free before?

Also your comments about freedom in the USA, sounds very similar to the EU's version of freedom (protestors being set upon and being among the most watched) we have here in Europe.

Still you can try protesting in China, Russia or North Korea and you'll probably end up locked in a jail cell and tortu_ed or dead for your trouble.

I don't know why the notion of the British Empire being evil is laughable to you - Lets not forget that amongst other accolades, we are one of the only nations to have actually committed genocide.

Yes, except that it wasn't that long ago that we were the ones carrying out the injustices and the natives have not yet forgotten.

We cannot re-invent ourselves as "world police" overnight.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The claim about Americans killing more Americans is spurious at best,

The American civil war killed more Americans than every other war they've ever fought...

It's completely meaningless except to show the brutality of the American civil war!

I am sorry I thought as we were talking in the context of the aftermath of the San Bernardino gun massacre my remarks meant 'Americans killed more Americans with guns'. My apologies.

I should also have said 'in 2015' and not included the Civil War. The numbers are 8,500 gun deaths in 2015 so far. By terrorist attacks? Possibly 18. Again my apologies.

So its not a spurious number its a hard fact to the point where it was Obama who quoted it!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/oregon-college-shooting-obama-is-right-that-guns-kill-more-americans-than-terrorism-but-so-do-lots-a6676366.html

And my point was that Americans BELIEVE it......

That being said I do get rather naffed off with this constant US bashing as if they really are the great Satan.

The west have saved way more Muslims than all the Muslim countries put together have.

It's just not true!

No, it's not the USA's fault that Muslims in North Africa & the middle east want to butcher each other, I totally agree.

The same cannot be said for Britain & France though! .

Stop it, that's just nonsense, why do you think millions of fucking Muslims wanna come to the west..

Were the greatest thing the world has ever seen, were far from perfect don't get me wrong.

But honestly go live in Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iran or Saudi Arabia or Bahrain or Libya or

Go to the bastion of democratic Indonesia... Where 30% of the population think stoning adulterers is a good idea!!

Just go there and then come back and tell me, it's all the fault of the west

"Stop it, that's just nonsense. "

Oh I see, so France & Britain didn't carve up the Middle East after WW1 then?

Isolating tribal people either side of these lines & causing fucking mayhem!!

I wonder why the natives would want to leave there & come here, particularly as it's been mayhem ever since!

But yes, I'll stop it shall I, I mean we can't possibly mention that because it just isn't true, is it!

....next you'll be telling me that ISIS is not partly of our own making, so I won't even begin to mention it in fear of being told to 'stop it'!!

Your putting 2&2 together and coming up with 5.

For starters your assuming that these tribal people would have lived in some harmonious peace if we hadn't put borders in place!

We at that time carved up many many places in the world and it hasn't been chaos!

And where was the 'freedom' for the Indians, the aborigines, the iris, or anywhere else in the the British (freedom) empire then?

Like I said, laughable at best!

Oh wait.........

It is very easy to look at the past and say what we do was wrong, however the challenge and I'll extend it to you as you are clearly very knowledgeable, is to come up with a workable solution.

Sadly nobody has a better answer, unless you can tell us otherwise. Stop the War is not an answer, it is appeasement and we have been there before..."

But I don't see myself as that knowledgeable at all, - it's just that some things seem blatantly obvious.

After watching & listening to Colin Powell's address to the UN, trying to sell the authenticity of invading Iraq by providing visual 'proof' of iraqi Weapons of mass destruction, I said 'no' don't go, - which was hardly a big

deal because so did the rest of the world........... bar one!

When the Russia/Afghanistan war ended I could've believe that after having their country blown to smithereens for ten years of doing 'the west' a favour, - we just virtually said 'thanks, see ye later' instead of giving then a hand to rebuild & not slip into civil war.

But that's no big deal, most people thought the same on that score too.

But in this 'free & democratic' world that we are so lucky to be living in, - 'most people' don't seem to count!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

& the solution is...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 10/12/15 00:10:06]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"& the solution is..."

Don't start WW3?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

"& the solution is...

Don't start WW3?"

Oh yes, the famous Chambetlain defence. That is not an answer, it is a weak excuse.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

Chamberlain - just in case you missed the point!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"Chamberlain - just in case you missed the point!"

You do realise that it's not 1939, don't you?

ISIS are not the Nazi party of Germany.

You will also hopefully be aware that a) war with Hitler in 1939 would not also mean war with the USSR and b) that diplomacy and appeasement are not the same thing....

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The claim about Americans killing more Americans is spurious at best,

The American civil war killed more Americans than every other war they've ever fought...

It's completely meaningless except to show the brutality of the American civil war!

I am sorry I thought as we were talking in the context of the aftermath of the San Bernardino gun massacre my remarks meant 'Americans killed more Americans with guns'. My apologies.

I should also have said 'in 2015' and not included the Civil War. The numbers are 8,500 gun deaths in 2015 so far. By terrorist attacks? Possibly 18. Again my apologies.

So its not a spurious number its a hard fact to the point where it was Obama who quoted it!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/oregon-college-shooting-obama-is-right-that-guns-kill-more-americans-than-terrorism-but-so-do-lots-a6676366.html

And my point was that Americans BELIEVE it......

That being said I do get rather naffed off with this constant US bashing as if they really are the great Satan.

The west have saved way more Muslims than all the Muslim countries put together have.

It's just not true!

No, it's not the USA's fault that Muslims in North Africa & the middle east want to butcher each other, I totally agree.

The same cannot be said for Britain & France though! .

Stop it, that's just nonsense, why do you think millions of fucking Muslims wanna come to the west..

Were the greatest thing the world has ever seen, were far from perfect don't get me wrong.

But honestly go live in Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iran or Saudi Arabia or Bahrain or Libya or

Go to the bastion of democratic Indonesia... Where 30% of the population think stoning adulterers is a good idea!!

Just go there and then come back and tell me, it's all the fault of the west

"Stop it, that's just nonsense. "

Oh I see, so France & Britain didn't carve up the Middle East after WW1 then?

Isolating tribal people either side of these lines & causing fucking mayhem!!

I wonder why the natives would want to leave there & come here, particularly as it's been mayhem ever since!

But yes, I'll stop it shall I, I mean we can't possibly mention that because it just isn't true, is it!

....next you'll be telling me that ISIS is not partly of our own making, so I won't even begin to mention it in fear of being told to 'stop it'!!

Your putting 2&2 together and coming up with 5.

For starters your assuming that these tribal people would have lived in some harmonious peace if we hadn't put borders in place!

We at that time carved up many many places in the world and it hasn't been chaos!

And where was the 'freedom' for the Indians, the aborigines, the iris, or anywhere else in the the British (freedom) empire then?

Like I said, laughable at best!

Oh wait.........

The evil British empire, lol.

Do you also condemn the Roman empire before that or the Persian empire?

What about the hund_eds of thousands (at least) of iraqi civilians who died under Saddam Hussain rule? Do you think they were free before?

Also your comments about freedom in the USA, sounds very similar to the EU's version of freedom (protestors being set upon and being among the most watched) we have here in Europe.

Still you can try protesting in China, Russia or North Korea and you'll probably end up locked in a jail cell and tortu_ed or dead for your trouble. "

So, to get rid of an evil regime we kill even more civilians than the initial tyrant, - yeah, brilliant!

& no, I don't recall mentioning US freedoms but yes, I do recall protesting about Chinese occupation & atrocities in Tibet, but hey, lack of oil & a whole load of money to be made in China meant that was a totally futile protest because our own actions towards the evil dictators of china & their evil oppression of the Buddhist people contrastingly is; to trade with them!!

What a bunch of hypocritical greedy bastards!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

"Chamberlain - just in case you missed the point!

You do realise that it's not 1939, don't you?

ISIS are not the Nazi party of Germany.

You will also hopefully be aware that a) war with Hitler in 1939 would not also mean war with the USSR and b) that diplomacy and appeasement are not the same thing...."

I didn't bring up WW3. I simply asked what the answer was and was told we should hide! Perhaps something a bit more thought through would be helpful...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"That was a very eloquent and well thought out response to some utter horseshit. I don't know why you bothe_ed, but it made an interesting read nonetheless"

I actually agree with you it was an excellent response to my detailed reply to a rather less well expressed earlier criticism. However for you to call someone's extended contribution 'horseshit' sort of returns the debate back to the gutter. So I will pass on any further replies ... Thanks and take care...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"Chamberlain - just in case you missed the point!

You do realise that it's not 1939, don't you?

ISIS are not the Nazi party of Germany.

You will also hopefully be aware that a) war with Hitler in 1939 would not also mean war with the USSR and b) that diplomacy and appeasement are not the same thing....

I didn't bring up WW3. I simply asked what the answer was and was told we should hide! Perhaps something a bit more thought through would be helpful..."

Nobody said that we should hide. Maybe you decided to interpret "diplomacy" as "hiding", but that's hardly my fault.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"That was a very eloquent and well thought out response to some utter horseshit. I don't know why you bothe_ed, but it made an interesting read nonetheless

Terribly sorry Mr "I learned all about America off of youtube"...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

- Marc

I thoroughly enjoyed your detailed and excellent response. Now I won't agree with some remarks but do agree with others. We are, after all, voicing opinions. I especially appreciated you giving my opinions some respect and giving a reasoned response. Thank you.

I will write privately if I may and detail the military points you questioned....

- Chris

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"& the solution is...

Don't start WW3?

Oh yes, the famous Chambetlain defence. That is not an answer, it is a weak excuse. "

I've got an idea!

*puts hand up & waves it

Make it 100% illegal for any politicians, Military, party donors or relatives thereof to have any shareholdings or association whatsoever of any company that profits from war!

There's a good start to hamper the warmongers of our society, - & then we work from there.

See, we can be proactive after all!

Oh, & add the royal family to that list too, - just in case there's any 'hidden powers' that we don't know about.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Terribly sorry Mr "I learned all about America off of youtube"...

Oh how original. Sarcasm at its worst.... I wouldn't mind but it would help if your sarcasm was factually based and was marginally clever. You missed the years of working for American companies here and in the USA and a UK company there from 30 years and later ago... you missed the large number of American friends I have and with whom I correspond on a regular basis... you missed the extended holidays (months) I have had over their exploring THEIR history which is so combined in ours. You missed where I said I now have the time to read geopolitical lectures and papers and other studies. Basically old son you missed everything except something you could make a cheap sarcastic dig at.

Only 'horseshit' here is yours apparently...

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By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

[Removed by poster at 10/12/15 00:50:35]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

[Removed by poster at 10/12/15 00:50:22]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"Terribly sorry Mr "I learned all about America off of youtube"...

Only 'horseshit' here is yours apparently...

Years of working for American companies and having some American friends, and having read some stuff clearly doesn't buy any knowledge of America does it?

Sour grapes?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

"Chamberlain - just in case you missed the point!

You do realise that it's not 1939, don't you?

ISIS are not the Nazi party of Germany.

You will also hopefully be aware that a) war with Hitler in 1939 would not also mean war with the USSR and b) that diplomacy and appeasement are not the same thing....

I didn't bring up WW3. I simply asked what the answer was and was told we should hide! Perhaps something a bit more thought through would be helpful...

Nobody said that we should hide. Maybe you decided to interpret "diplomacy" as "hiding", but that's hardly my fault."

The question is, diplomacy with whom...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"Chamberlain - just in case you missed the point!

You do realise that it's not 1939, don't you?

ISIS are not the Nazi party of Germany.

You will also hopefully be aware that a) war with Hitler in 1939 would not also mean war with the USSR and b) that diplomacy and appeasement are not the same thing....

I didn't bring up WW3. I simply asked what the answer was and was told we should hide! Perhaps something a bit more thought through would be helpful...

Nobody said that we should hide. Maybe you decided to interpret "diplomacy" as "hiding", but that's hardly my fault.

The question is, diplomacy with whom..."

In this case, possibly Assad.

Might have helped not to have armed ISIS in the first place, mind.

You also have to ask yourself why Turkey and Saudi Arabia aren't getting involved (save Turkeys one count of shooting at Russian planes)...both have big millitaries, both have airstrike capabilities (we should know, we train them).....and yet.....

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By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

I think we can all agree the Donald Trump is a moron, but so far nobody seems to have any c_edible answers to solving the problems in the Middle East. Perhaps tomorrow will bring enlightenment...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

He's a cock!!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think we can all agree the Donald Trump is a moron, but so far nobody seems to have any c_edible answers to solving the problems in the Middle East. Perhaps tomorrow will bring enlightenment..."

that's hardly fair; you asked for solutions & I gave you a proactive one that you've totally igno_ed, - so it's your turn to provide some answers rather than questions now!

Igno_ed. Boondocks of beyond.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He's a cock!!

but cocks are useful!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He's a cock!!

but cocks are useful!

This is true. He's a useless cock then..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He's a cock!!

but cocks are useful!

This is true. He's a useless cock then..

now you're talking.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That's not irony, and equally I don't think the nazis (I'm assuming you mean that by the "last war" despite us having had lots of wars since then) ever had any public plans to ban swinging

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By *weetguy33Man over a year ago

some where near you

[Removed by poster at 10/12/15 03:54:37]

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By *weetguy33Man over a year ago

some where near you

He's lost Millions of dollars of business in dubai alone which is just a small country.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

back to the OP ..... my opinion about donald trump?

he seems like he's a monumental bellend.

that is all.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

As per my status update: "If Carlsberg did arseholes, they'd call it The Donald." 16 hours ago

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By *verysmileMan over a year ago

Canterbury

I think the guy is an asrsehole.

As Gary said "Pussies don't like dicks, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes: assholes that just want to shit on everything. ... But the only thing that can fuck an asshole is a dick, with some balls"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Where to begin if he does get in then the American people have gone mad but look at this country we have a leftie who wants to get rid of the army and then we have a Tory that wants to tax the poor to death. I don't think I trust anyone in power any more

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"He's lost Millions of dollars of business in dubai alone which is just a small country.

Millions of dollars is a drop in the ocean to his bank account. He is a billionaire so he won't be losing any sleep over that.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Just wish I could see that hair on a windy day. He wouldn't need a spitting image puppet. Mrs N thinks he looks a bit of a sleaze ball with his ultimate comb over.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Better a comb over than a bush

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 10/12/15 15:22:33]

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

a tribute to Don Trump's hair ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7Rte68JgMA

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By *ouvakMan over a year ago

clacton on sea

"he doesn't scare me but the level of support he has terrifies me.

You need to be sca_ed, after the last census in this country, A Cambridge university professor of mathematics p_edict's that with the current growth of the Islamic population in our country, there will be by the year 2040/50 enough of these people to vote in their own government and take control of the entire country, now that's scary

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why is that so scary? Any more scary than the Scots doing that? or the Sikhs? Or the Jews? Or anyone else who happens to be British? Muslims make up about 6.5% of the British population right now. There are more Scots than Muslims and THEY tried to destroy the UK.. (OK OK not all Scots but I exaggerate to make the point?). I suspect 99.9% of Muslims are just hard working folks taking care of their families like the rest of us do. There are some Muslim nutters but then there are some nutters everywhere.

So what part of 'Not all Muslims are terrorists' don't you quite understand then?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So what part of 'Not all Muslims are terrorists' don't you quite understand then?

"
.

I don't know about your 99.9% figure but according to pew polls nearly half of American Muslims don't think Muslim leaders are doing enough to combat Muslim extremists.

I think that's an important figure to remember!, even people inside the religion itself have concerns

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 10/12/15 17:27:25]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 10/12/15 17:31:34]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think that's an important figure to remember!, even people inside the religion itself have concerns"

Well of course people inside their religion are very concerned. After all a bunch of nutjobs is hijacking their religion and way of life which then allows bigger nutjobs like Trump to peddle his racist and ignorant ideas and gives an excuse for other morons to attack innocent people. I said 99.9% because if you look at the United Kingdom Census 2011 giving the UK Muslim population in 2011 as 2,706,066 (4.5% of the total population actually less than I said) 0.01% = 270 people. How many terrorists have been convicted in the UK? 85 since 2002. Add in the other suicide bombers and you still don't reach 270. My point is that while we are not in any was as bad as the Yanks we, as a nation, seem to be adopting a totally irrational fear, or whatever, of Muslims. Fear terrorists, ISIL, even the IRA because they are still murdering people but why 'its the Muslims'?? I just don't understand why people are targeting others who, by a vast majority, are peaceful God fearing people working hard and contributing to society.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The man is a lunatic

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think that's an important figure to remember!, even people inside the religion itself have concerns

Why it's the Muslims??

That's a very difficult question

I think you need to really take a long hard look at the recent last few years and try and disassemble it.

There's a vast vast difference between the last decade or two of recent Islamic (that's an important distinction as in reality Islam is the political side of the Muslim religion) terrorism and other terrorism that you mentioned, the shear level of what the islamists are willing to go to, is way beyond anything the ira was willing to go, for instance in the 70s they simply guarded against catholic bombing by one rule, once you'd got into the building (say a concert) you couldn't leave (without a very good reason) this was simply because they knew the Catholics weren't willing to blow themselves up, although they were willing to blow others up, this really tells you the actual level of conviction difference between catholics and Islamists.

The islamists have ramped up the fear factor by shear brutality, public beheadings, shooting up malls, cinema's, cafes, officers, beheading aid workers, setting fire to combatants (by the way the methods of torture like fire and beheading is used quite specifically because that's the very punishment the Qur'an dictates. These barbaric acts are literally straight from the dark ages when the Qur'an was wrote, it's no coincidence that were getting sex slavery, beheadings and burning to death, these people are following the doctrine and that's exactly the fear they knew it would evoke.

The fact that this comes just like ripples of Islamic waves, we started with serious death threats and official fatwas for writing books (salman Rushdie a Muslim himself had to go into hiding for years and years,I mean a genuine fatwa, could you imagine the pope and the Vatican issuing death threats to the producers of the west end play jerry springer, the outrage would have been beyond anything that occur_ed to the Islamic world.

I think it's important to realise that these ripples of Muslim beliefs are not 0.01% , you know there was a very large minority of uk Muslims that thought salman Rushdie should have been killed for his blasphemy, this still goes on today, the level of Muslim support for the deaths of cartoonists is not 0.01%, these people might not be willing to behead the cartoonists themselves but they fully agree with the results.

Keith vaz wants a blasphemy law in the UK!!!

70% of Indonesians would like sharia law, 30% of them think stoning adulterers to death is a good idea! , raped women should be stoned for their shame!... These are not fringe beliefs and Indonesia is the "moderate Muslim democracy" that's supposed to be fighting the good fight against the islamists like isis!!!.

I'm not afraid of Muslims but I'm very afraid of Islam and I think I've every right to be because my fundermental beliefs of free speech and free thought is absolutely at odds with Islam.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

'70% of Indonesians want Sharia law' - where are you getting this information from?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"'70% of Indonesians want Sharia law' - where are you getting this information from? "
.

There available on the pew poll website.

Won't post a link but there quite reliably sourced

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

But you've no way of checking it out then.

Better to go there & find out for ourselves, I guess.

I find those figures to be nothing like what I experienced, although that was a while back.

Indonesians that I met want western freedoms (so called).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

He's only saying what a lot of people are thinking!

He's right!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have never heard of 'Islam' being separated from 'Muslims'. Its like saying 'Christianity' is separated from Christians.

I think / hope you meant 'Jihad' is separated from Islam which it clearly is in the current context although the word "jihad" means struggling or striving. Which I guess the Palestinian Jihadis are very much a) struggling to survive Israeli brutality and b) striving to find their nation again. Sadly the word now has very different connotations in the western world. As in Trump's misuse of it.

We should not give the ISILs of the world the cover of any religion let alone Islam. They are (like the IRA) brutal murdering thugs. Its just they have taken brutality to a newer lower level. They are terrorists who happen to profess a perverted version of Islam. A bit like the Crusaders were with Christianity. They in NO way represent the Billions of peaceful Muslims in the world so why do wankstains like Trump attack THOSE innocent people and not the REAL thugs? And I say again if the 14 poor people in San Bernardino had been massac_ed by a white bible thumping Christian Trump would not have said a word. Just another day in the US of A. THAT to me is the hypocrisy of the man and people like him. Its OK for a white Christian to murder 14 people and nothing is to be done but because they were Muslims ... hell breaks loose ...

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