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CAMERON TORY PARTY LEADER FOR 10 YEARS

By *rivate room OP Man over a year ago

Bracknell

Whilst I do not agree with a lot of his policies over time the news has not marked this 10 year acheivement very much. A mention in the newspapers a bit but not on the news. Only four tory party leaders have survived that long. In my _iew he has had a few problems over 10 years partly with his own people and his policies but nothing has stuck to him a bit like Tony Blair. He also inherited an economy in debt unlike TB and has still remained popular.

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By *c-ukMan over a year ago

Sevenoaks

John Major fucked Edwina Curry...

Fucking Tory's !!

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

he got my vote

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"he got my vote"
I thought that said 'he got my vole'

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I was totally against him becoming parry leader, but over time he has developed statesmanship and deserves his place..

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By *obbytupperMan over a year ago

Menston near Ilkley

"John Major fucked Edwina Curry...

Fucking Tory's !!"

Given the chance I would have done too!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's more a marriage of convenience than choice, who else have they got for pm material..

Boy George, Boris!

Politicians and there successes usually revolves around circumstances and slipperiness

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The last few Labour leaders have helped his cause though

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

His ten years as leader serves to neatly illustrate how bereft the party is of any political talent.

Seeing as how their great hope for invigorating the 'Tory youth' is currently being investigated for allegedly bullying a young party worker to death and is alleged to have sexually assaulted other young Tories, we can probably expect the next leader to hold the top spot for even longer. The conservative is a dying breed.

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By *ynecplCouple over a year ago

Newcastle upon Tyne

Some how I Doubt the Conservative is a dying breed. The population is getting older and by tradition the older become more right wing the older they get. Can't remember who said it but the saying

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains"

springs to mind. (Yes I could google it but can't ba arsed)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Some how I Doubt the Conservative is a dying breed. The population is getting older and by tradition the older become more right wing the older they get. Can't remember who said it but the saying

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains"

springs to mind. (Yes I could google it but can't ba arsed)"
.

That's just lazy...

I wanna know who said it now

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Some how I Doubt the Conservative is a dying breed. The population is getting older and by tradition the older become more right wing the older they get. Can't remember who said it but the saying

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains"

springs to mind. (Yes I could google it but can't ba arsed)"

Sounds about right

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By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

"Whilst I do not agree with a lot of his policies over time the news has not marked this 10 year acheivement very much. A mention in the newspapers a bit but not on the news. Only four tory party leaders have survived that long. In my _iew he has had a few problems over 10 years partly with his own people and his policies but nothing has stuck to him a bit like Tony Blair. He also inherited an economy in debt unlike TB and has still remained popular."
. He is probably quite happy just to continue doing a good job.. In addition his family heritage is very impressive . His wife's family are successfull in their own right.

He has done a great job of managing the economy .

My main area of concern is the failure to clamp down hard on immigration and refuges who are bogus . How can last years net immigration figure of 450000 be sustainable ?.

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By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

"His ten years as leader serves to neatly illustrate how bereft the party is of any political talent.

"
. If the Conservative is a dying breed , who will replace them? More people voted for them than any other party at the last general election.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

10 years of fabbing it lol is a great leader and policy.

Fuck the rest.. As they year in year out fuck you over.

Imagine.. John lennon

Only party am affliated to is my own.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

He's absolutely rubbish

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By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

"He's absolutely rubbish"
. Are you able to quantify the factors that make him rubbish?

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"Some how I Doubt the Conservative is a dying breed. The population is getting older and by tradition the older become more right wing the older they get. Can't remember who said it but the saying

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains"

springs to mind. (Yes I could google it but can't ba arsed)"

There will always be people the Tories can convince to vote for them, of course, whoever is in the party.

However as a political party, in term of number of members, they are on a steady decline. There members are indeed generally older, and that is only going one way.

It's probably the one thing that terrifies them more than the seemingly unstoppable popularity of Corbyn.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

He has done a great job of managing the economy .

National Debt of £1.56 trillion..

great job my arse..

more U turns than any other occupant of that office..

he's being made to look average because Labour are poor at the moment, couldn't get a majority in 2010 and was so confident this year he had written his defeat speech..

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"He is probably quite happy just to continue doing a good job.. In addition his family heritage is very impressive . His wife's family are successfull in their own right.

He has done a great job of managing the economy .

You do know we're talking about David Cameron, yes?

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"Some how I Doubt the Conservative is a dying breed. The population is getting older and by tradition the older become more right wing the older they get. Can't remember who said it but the saying

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains"

springs to mind. (Yes I could google it but can't ba arsed).

That's just lazy...

I wanna know who said it now

Churchill.

I think the quote comes from when he rejoined the Conservative party after his defection to the Liberals.

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By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

"Some how I Doubt the Conservative is a dying breed. The population is getting older and by tradition the older become more right wing the older they get. Can't remember who said it but the saying

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains"

springs to mind. (Yes I could google it but can't ba arsed)

There will always be people the Tories can convince to vote for them, of course, whoever is in the party.

However as a political party, in term of number of members, they are on a steady decline. There members are indeed generally older, and that is only going one way.

It's probably the one thing that terrifies them more than the seemingly unstoppable popularity of Corbyn."
. Most true Tories are absolutely delighted at the success of Corbyn and hope that he will remain leader for a very long time

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"It's more a marriage of convenience than choice, who else have they got for pm material..

Boy George, Boris!

Politicians and there successes usually revolves around circumstances and slipperiness"

I'd have preferred David Davis.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

he's being made to look average because Labour are poor at the moment"

Labour are looking the strongest they have done for years.

The latest IPSOS MORI from November shows voting intentions as Conservative 37%, Labour 35%.

Couple that with the supposedly unelectable Corbyn Labour increasing their majority in Oldham, rather than being annihilated as predicted by every paper in the country, and it's rosy for the party right now.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"It's more a marriage of convenience than choice, who else have they got for pm material..

Boy George, Boris!

Politicians and there successes usually revolves around circumstances and slipperiness

I'd have preferred David Davis.

Ah, you're back.

You've been staying pretty quiet on the topic of the Oldham by-election, I see!

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"Most true Tories are absolutely delighted at the success of Corbyn and hope that he will remain leader for a very long time

This explains why you think Cameron has handled the economy well too, I suppose.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Fuck this makes me feel old. I remember him getting the leadership when I was at university and watching a lot of telly

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By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

He has done a great job of managing the economy .

National Debt of £1.56 trillion..

great job my arse..

more U turns than any other occupant of that office..

he's being made to look average because Labour are poor at the moment, couldn't get a majority in 2010 and was so confident this year he had written his defeat speech..

"
. What is wrong with making a U turn. Would you have preferred it if the tax credits were removed ?

The National Debt would be even greater under Corbyn or have I missed the measures which he proposed in order to reduce it .

If you want a measure of the success of the. economy , just look at the number of people buying expensive cups of coffee.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Some how I Doubt the Conservative is a dying breed. The population is getting older and by tradition the older become more right wing the older they get. Can't remember who said it but the saying

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains"

springs to mind. (Yes I could google it but can't ba arsed)

There will always be people the Tories can convince to vote for them, of course, whoever is in the party.

However as a political party, in term of number of members, they are on a steady decline. There members are indeed generally older, and that is only going one way.

It's probably the one thing that terrifies them more than the seemingly unstoppable popularity of Corbyn."

Membership or electorate...which is more important?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"John Major fucked Edwina Curry...

Fucking Tory's !!

Given the chance I would have done too!

You would have fucked John Major?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

jeez is it really 10 years? Where has that decade gone !!!

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"Some how I Doubt the Conservative is a dying breed. The population is getting older and by tradition the older become more right wing the older they get. Can't remember who said it but the saying

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains"

springs to mind. (Yes I could google it but can't ba arsed)

There will always be people the Tories can convince to vote for them, of course, whoever is in the party.

However as a political party, in term of number of members, they are on a steady decline. There members are indeed generally older, and that is only going one way.

It's probably the one thing that terrifies them more than the seemingly unstoppable popularity of Corbyn.

Membership or electorate...which is more important?"

Labour are steadily increasing their popularity amongst both right now, so there's no need to differentiate.

Unless you want to tell us about your workmates yet again.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"He's absolutely rubbish. Are you able to quantify the factors that make him rubbish? "

Let me count the ways...

Cameron is good on television, and accomplished and statesmanlike at big set-piece occasions. Cameron is very good at appearing ‘prime-ministerial’.

BUT

* David Cameron is a bad Prime Minister because he follows opinion rather than leading it. This makes him a weak leader.

* He has very little to show for his time in office other than a wreaked welfare state

* Cameron retains a Thatcherite faith in the free market; since the financial crisis began, it has felt more and more out of date, given all the market meltdowns and "the public's quite sudden distrust of the neoliberal economic project".

* He has no idea about the daily struggle most families with children have to go through just to keep their children fed and clothed.

People used to think Cameron was charismatic. But he is proving to be a kind of average prime minister. His ratings are not terrible, but he's not Thatcher, he's not Blair. He is not a dominant figure.

Nobody loves him.

That is why the Boris story is taking off.

imo

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

If you want a measure of the success of the. economy , just look at the number of people buying expensive cups of coffee. "

George Osborne posts on Fab?!!?

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By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

he's being made to look average because Labour are poor at the moment

Labour are looking the strongest they have done for years.

The latest IPSOS MORI from November shows voting intentions as Conservative 37%, Labour 35%.

"
. Oldham was a safe Labour seat so it is hard to see what impact this seat would have on the electorate . Elections are fought on the marginal seats and floating voters . Only time will tell but let's hope that Corbyn remain leader for a very long time .

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Some how I Doubt the Conservative is a dying breed. The population is getting older and by tradition the older become more right wing the older they get. Can't remember who said it but the saying

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains"

springs to mind. (Yes I could google it but can't ba arsed)

There will always be people the Tories can convince to vote for them, of course, whoever is in the party.

However as a political party, in term of number of members, they are on a steady decline. There members are indeed generally older, and that is only going one way.

It's probably the one thing that terrifies them more than the seemingly unstoppable popularity of Corbyn.. Most true Tories are absolutely delighted at the success of Corbyn and hope that he will remain leader for a very long time

Of course they do, he's a tory plant and was voted labour leader by the tories

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Some how I Doubt the Conservative is a dying breed. The population is getting older and by tradition the older become more right wing the older they get. Can't remember who said it but the saying

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains"

springs to mind. (Yes I could google it but can't ba arsed)

There will always be people the Tories can convince to vote for them, of course, whoever is in the party.

However as a political party, in term of number of members, they are on a steady decline. There members are indeed generally older, and that is only going one way.

It's probably the one thing that terrifies them more than the seemingly unstoppable popularity of Corbyn.

Membership or electorate...which is more important?

Labour are steadily increasing their popularity amongst both right now, so there's no need to differentiate.

Unless you want to tell us about your workmates yet again.

Nah you're alright. Your derision just proves the point I always make.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

he's being made to look average because Labour are poor at the moment

Labour are looking the strongest they have done for years.

The latest IPSOS MORI from November shows voting intentions as Conservative 37%, Labour 35%.

. Oldham was a safe Labour seat so it is hard to see what impact this seat would have on the electorate . Elections are fought on the marginal seats and floating voters . Only time will tell but let's hope that Corbyn remain leader for a very long time ."

I can't believe this is happening , but I am in total agreement with you

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

But there really, really is a need to differentiate between membership and electorate. For all parties, not just Labour.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"Some how I Doubt the Conservative is a dying breed. The population is getting older and by tradition the older become more right wing the older they get. Can't remember who said it but the saying

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains"

springs to mind. (Yes I could google it but can't ba arsed)

There will always be people the Tories can convince to vote for them, of course, whoever is in the party.

However as a political party, in term of number of members, they are on a steady decline. There members are indeed generally older, and that is only going one way.

It's probably the one thing that terrifies them more than the seemingly unstoppable popularity of Corbyn.

Membership or electorate...which is more important?

Labour are steadily increasing their popularity amongst both right now, so there's no need to differentiate.

Unless you want to tell us about your workmates yet again.

Nah you're alright. Your derision just proves the point I always make. "

Hey, I don't deride all your posts, Ruby. Only the ones where you are unable to resist that urge to comment on whatever I write.

It's flattering really!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Whilst I do not agree with a lot of his policies over time the news has not marked this 10 year acheivement very much. A mention in the newspapers a bit but not on the news. Only four tory party leaders have survived that long. In my _iew he has had a few problems over 10 years partly with his own people and his policies but nothing has stuck to him a bit like Tony Blair. He also inherited an economy in debt unlike TB and has still remained popular.. He is probably quite happy just to continue doing a good job.. In addition his family heritage is very impressive . His wife's family are successfull in their own right.

He has done a great job of managing the economy .

My main area of concern is the failure to clamp down hard on immigration and refuges who are bogus . How can last years net immigration figure of 450000 be sustainable ?. "
.

It isn't, but there's several things you can't debate because you'll be shouted down as a racist!.

it's short term gains(net immigration increases always give short term financial gains) over long term solutions(net immigration increases tend to cost you a bit further down the line.. Like once you're out of power), always has been the Tory motto

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Some how I Doubt the Conservative is a dying breed. The population is getting older and by tradition the older become more right wing the older they get. Can't remember who said it but the saying

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains"

springs to mind. (Yes I could google it but can't ba arsed)

There will always be people the Tories can convince to vote for them, of course, whoever is in the party.

However as a political party, in term of number of members, they are on a steady decline. There members are indeed generally older, and that is only going one way.

It's probably the one thing that terrifies them more than the seemingly unstoppable popularity of Corbyn.

Membership or electorate...which is more important?

Labour are steadily increasing their popularity amongst both right now, so there's no need to differentiate.

Unless you want to tell us about your workmates yet again.

Nah you're alright. Your derision just proves the point I always make.

Hey, I don't deride all your posts, Ruby. Only the ones where you are unable to resist that urge to comment on whatever I write.

It's flattering really!

I wouldn't bother, I comment on all kinds of shit on these forums

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"But there really, really is a need to differentiate between membership and electorate. For all parties, not just Labour."

It's the electorate that matters , there will always be members and in house arguments .

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

he's being made to look average because Labour are poor at the moment

Labour are looking the strongest they have done for years.

The latest IPSOS MORI from November shows voting intentions as Conservative 37%, Labour 35%.

The significance is that the press, who are the main force in the country for trying to convince the gullible that Corbyn is unpopular, were widely predicting it would be a disaster for Labour and even possibly a win for UKIP.

But it wasn't a disaster. It wasn't even a narrow victory. They instead increased their majority in a seat that was left open by an extremely popular MP, while being lead by a man who is supposedly making them unelectable.

I don't know how to put that across in terms of expensive cups of coffee I'm afraid.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"Some how I Doubt the Conservative is a dying breed. The population is getting older and by tradition the older become more right wing the older they get. Can't remember who said it but the saying

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains"

springs to mind. (Yes I could google it but can't ba arsed)

There will always be people the Tories can convince to vote for them, of course, whoever is in the party.

However as a political party, in term of number of members, they are on a steady decline. There members are indeed generally older, and that is only going one way.

It's probably the one thing that terrifies them more than the seemingly unstoppable popularity of Corbyn.

Membership or electorate...which is more important?

Labour are steadily increasing their popularity amongst both right now, so there's no need to differentiate.

Unless you want to tell us about your workmates yet again.

Nah you're alright. Your derision just proves the point I always make.

Hey, I don't deride all your posts, Ruby. Only the ones where you are unable to resist that urge to comment on whatever I write.

It's flattering really!

I wouldn't bother, I comment on all kinds of shit on these forums

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

He has done a great job of managing the economy .

National Debt of £1.56 trillion..

great job my arse..

more U turns than any other occupant of that office..

he's being made to look average because Labour are poor at the moment, couldn't get a majority in 2010 and was so confident this year he had written his defeat speech..

. What is wrong with making a U turn. Would you have preferred it if the tax credits were removed ?

The National Debt would be even greater under Corbyn or have I missed the measures which he proposed in order to reduce it .

If you want a measure of the success of the. economy , just look at the number of people buying expensive cups of coffee. "
.

You only need look at Greece to realise that cutting stuff doesn't lead to a balanced budget

Today they've announced a slashing budget for 2016 but funnily enough it's also still got a bigger deficit than last year!

Tories cut spending tax goes down, Tories increase spending tax goes up.

Unless you have a credible plan for increasing exports something neither Tory or labour have then you'll always need government spending to keep your tax up!

Cameron or Osborne don't have the slightest clue on how to fix the problem, if they did we wouldn't still be at 0% interest rates

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

More Debt, more poverty, more war, more racism, more of the same. In the last 20 years of politics I see nothing more than greedy children doing whatever they can to make themselves more wealth and more power while we scramble for approval. Do you honestly think they care at all.

Face it kids the human race is a failed experiment that needs to end. Thankfully the Government is on it.

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"It's more a marriage of convenience than choice, who else have they got for pm material..

Boy George, Boris!

Politicians and there successes usually revolves around circumstances and slipperiness

I'd have preferred David Davis.

Ah, you're back.

You've been staying pretty quiet on the topic of the Oldham by-election, I see!

So 60% of 40% of the electorate in a safe Labour seat decided to take a free hit at the government and 60% couldn't be arsed to vote for anyone.

Hardly earth shattering.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"More Debt, more poverty, more war, more racism, more of the same. In the last 20 years of politics I see nothing more than greedy children doing whatever they can to make themselves more wealth and more power while we scramble for approval. Do you honestly think they care at all.

Face it kids the human race is a failed experiment that needs to end. Thankfully the Government is on it.

So what were your opinions on politics at 9 and 13?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

we live in Oldham and, trust me, the victory was absolutely nothing to do with Corbyn. A local lad, leader of Oldham council, who is quite well thought of as a decent upstanding politician ran for Labour. He's done a good job trying to regenerate the town in trying times and was always going to win by a landslide against 'outsiders'. We're a parochial lot in these parts - we'd always vote local rather than for an outsider - even if it was for The Monster Raving Loony Party. As one local member of the Labour Party put it "We won in Oldham DESPITE Corbyn - certainly not BECAUSE of him"

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"we live in Oldham and, trust me, the victory was absolutely nothing to do with Corbyn. A local lad, leader of Oldham council, who is quite well thought of as a decent upstanding politician ran for Labour. He's done a good job trying to regenerate the town in trying times and was always going to win by a landslide against 'outsiders'. We're a parochial lot in these parts - we'd always vote local rather than for an outsider - even if it was for The Monster Raving Loony Party. As one local member of the Labour Party put it "We won in Oldham DESPITE Corbyn - certainly not BECAUSE of him""

Best post of the thread.

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By *aneandpaulCouple over a year ago

cleveleys

"John Major fucked Edwina Curry...

Fucking Tory's !!"
This one fucked a pig

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"It's more a marriage of convenience than choice, who else have they got for pm material..

Boy George, Boris!

Politicians and there successes usually revolves around circumstances and slipperiness

I'd have preferred David Davis.

Ah, you're back.

You've been staying pretty quiet on the topic of the Oldham by-election, I see!

So 60% of 40% of the electorate in a safe Labour seat decided to take a free hit at the government and 60% couldn't be arsed to vote for anyone.

Hardly earth shattering.

Mmm...don't be shy now, try calling it what it actually is - an increased majority. And what was it you were predicting again? A rout, wasn't it? Well, you will have certainly found the result interesting, so you didn't get it completely wrong.

Another lesson learned about believing what the media want you to think, no doubt.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Best post of the thread.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I was very interested in politics at 13 thank you I studies it with passion and at 15 was a member of a political youth group and met the leader of the lib dems.

Hopefully this validates my opinion as being at least as credible as yours.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

If it was such a nailed on certainty, I guess you have to ask yourself why every media outlet was saying it would be a disaster for Labour because of Corbyn.

If you had actually read my posts, you would have noticed that nowhere at all did I say the win was just because of Corbyn, because I'm smart enough to understand how local politics work. But you would have an intimate knowledge of the voting intentions of every voter to be able to say with such certainty that none of the increased majority was due to him. Did you speak to every voter yourself?

Or are you actually speaking just for yourself?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I was very interested in politics at 13 thank you I studies it with passion and at 15 was a member of a political youth group and met the leader of the lib dems.

Hopefully this validates my opinion as being at least as credible as yours."

Never said it wasn't. So when did you decide that all politics was bollocks and that nobody cares? After meeting the lib dem leader?

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By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Face it kids the human race is a failed experiment that needs to end. Thankfully the Government is on it.

So what were your opinions on politics at 9 and 13?

When I was about 11 (must have been the 97 election) I won a resounding victory in the school election competition for the Green Party because all the good parties were already taken

I started the usual trajectory towards conservatism shortly afterwards

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Face it kids the human race is a failed experiment that needs to end. Thankfully the Government is on it.

So what were your opinions on politics at 9 and 13?

When I was about 11 (must have been the 97 election) I won a resounding victory in the school election competition for the Green Party because all the good parties were already taken

I started the usual trajectory towards conservatism shortly afterwards

Good move

Take it you were popular with the boys even that long ago then

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Face it kids the human race is a failed experiment that needs to end. Thankfully the Government is on it.

So what were your opinions on politics at 9 and 13?

When I was about 11 (must have been the 97 election) I won a resounding victory in the school election competition for the Green Party because all the good parties were already taken

I started the usual trajectory towards conservatism shortly afterwards

Good move

Take it you were popular with the boys even that long ago then

How dare you...it was my superb oratory

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

Let's repeat that again so we're all clear:

If Oldham had been a disaster for Labour, as predicted by the papers and Fab's Tories, it would have been because of Corbyn and the party, and nothing to do with the local candidate.

But because Labour returned an increased majority, the opposite of what the papers and Fab's Tories predicted, it was everything to do with the local candidate, and nothing to do with Corbyn and the party.

Funny how the political narrative always manages to spin around to fit your personal bias, isn't it? It's enough to make you dizzy!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I was very interested in politics at 13 thank you I studies it with passion and at 15 was a member of a political youth group and met the leader of the lib dems.

Hopefully this validates my opinion as being at least as credible as yours."

More so I'd say.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If it was such a nailed on certainty, I guess you have to ask yourself why every media outlet was saying it would be a disaster for Labour because of Corbyn.

Or are you actually speaking just for yourself?"

Inadvertently and unitentionally the funniest phrase of the thread; "because I'm smart enough....."

Everything you write invalidates that statement.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Face it kids the human race is a failed experiment that needs to end. Thankfully the Government is on it.

So what were your opinions on politics at 9 and 13?

When I was about 11 (must have been the 97 election) I won a resounding victory in the school election competition for the Green Party because all the good parties were already taken

I started the usual trajectory towards conservatism shortly afterwards

"
.

I would imagine it would be alot easier to get elected as a green by children as they have different priorities.

Now if you'd be elected as a Tory in your school, I would have been impressed or I'd have thought you went to Eton.. Oh wait your a girl!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Let's repeat that again so we're all clear:

If Oldham had been a disaster for Labour, as predicted by the papers and Fab's Tories, it would have been because of Corbyn and the party, and nothing to do with the local candidate.

Funny how the political narrative always manages to spin around to fit your personal bias, isn't it? It's enough to make you dizzy!

this

Corbyn is a breath of fresh air: love him or hate him, you can't ignore him. He will polarise opinion and is his own man.

Perhaps the repercussions over the Syrian vote will see him proven visionary or wrong? The more trouble we experience as a result of the vote - such as the Californian shootings and tube stabbings - the more people will turn to him and against Cameron?

Cameron has presided over a widening of a gap between the haves and have nots, at a time of austerity, while demonising those on benefits. Well done. Must feel very proud

Arsehole

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

Let's repeat that again so we're all clear:

If Oldham had been a disaster for Labour, as predicted by the papers and Fab's Tories, it would have been because of Corbyn and the party, and nothing to do with the local candidate.

Funny how the political narrative always manages to spin around to fit your personal bias, isn't it? It's enough to make you dizzy!

its standard Tory rhetoric, when they came in it was Labours fault re the economy then they tried to take the credit because of their policies then when it goes wrong its because of 'global' issues..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I was very interested in politics at 13 thank you I studies it with passion and at 15 was a member of a political youth group and met the leader of the lib dems.

Hopefully this validates my opinion as being at least as credible as yours.

Never said it wasn't. So when did you decide that all politics was bollocks and that nobody cares? After meeting the lib dem leader?"

Hahaha funny but no.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

He's selling us off to China

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Face it kids the human race is a failed experiment that needs to end. Thankfully the Government is on it.

So what were your opinions on politics at 9 and 13?

When I was about 11 (must have been the 97 election) I won a resounding victory in the school election competition for the Green Party because all the good parties were already taken

I started the usual trajectory towards conservatism shortly afterwards

I would imagine it would be alot easier to get elected as a green by children as they have different priorities.

Now if you'd be elected as a Tory in your school, I would have been impressed or I'd have thought you went to Eton.. Oh wait your a girl!

I went to a comprehensive in Newcastle. Nobody could ever have been elected as a Tory!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Face it kids the human race is a failed experiment that needs to end. Thankfully the Government is on it.

So what were your opinions on politics at 9 and 13?

When I was about 11 (must have been the 97 election) I won a resounding victory in the school election competition for the Green Party because all the good parties were already taken

I started the usual trajectory towards conservatism shortly afterwards

I would imagine it would be alot easier to get elected as a green by children as they have different priorities.

Now if you'd be elected as a Tory in your school, I would have been impressed or I'd have thought you went to Eton.. Oh wait your a girl!

I went to a comprehensive in Newcastle. Nobody could ever have been elected as a Tory!"
.

Why do Geordie's dislike conservatives then?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Face it kids the human race is a failed experiment that needs to end. Thankfully the Government is on it.

So what were your opinions on politics at 9 and 13?

When I was about 11 (must have been the 97 election) I won a resounding victory in the school election competition for the Green Party because all the good parties were already taken

I started the usual trajectory towards conservatism shortly afterwards

I would imagine it would be alot easier to get elected as a green by children as they have different priorities.

Now if you'd be elected as a Tory in your school, I would have been impressed or I'd have thought you went to Eton.. Oh wait your a girl!

I went to a comprehensive in Newcastle. Nobody could ever have been elected as a Tory!.

Why do Geordie's dislike conservatives then?"

It's a bit like Oldham in that a turd with a Labour rosette could get elected. Most of my family are the people who if you read them a list of conservative manifesto promises would agree with them all but the second you tell them it's the conservatives they say they will never vote for them.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Face it kids the human race is a failed experiment that needs to end. Thankfully the Government is on it.

So what were your opinions on politics at 9 and 13?

When I was about 11 (must have been the 97 election) I won a resounding victory in the school election competition for the Green Party because all the good parties were already taken

I started the usual trajectory towards conservatism shortly afterwards

I would imagine it would be alot easier to get elected as a green by children as they have different priorities.

Now if you'd be elected as a Tory in your school, I would have been impressed or I'd have thought you went to Eton.. Oh wait your a girl!

I went to a comprehensive in Newcastle. Nobody could ever have been elected as a Tory!.

Why do Geordie's dislike conservatives then?

I tried that website for policies last year which was a bit like that...

I voted nearly all for bnp and greens and only one Tory policy and no labour.

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By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

Let's repeat that again so we're all clear:

If Oldham had been a disaster for Labour, as predicted by the papers and Fab's Tories, it would have been because of Corbyn and the party, and nothing to do with the local candidate.

Funny how the political narrative always manages to spin around to fit your personal bias, isn't it? It's enough to make you dizzy!

Just to be clear Labour returned a reduced majority, not an increased one. In terms of spin, this is right up there...

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By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

Let's repeat that again so we're all clear:

If Oldham had been a disaster for Labour, as predicted by the papers and Fab's Tories, it would have been because of Corbyn and the party, and nothing to do with the local candidate.

Funny how the political narrative always manages to spin around to fit your personal bias, isn't it? It's enough to make you dizzy!

this

Corbyn is a breath of fresh air: love him or hate him, you can't ignore him. He will polarise opinion and is his own man.

Cameron has presided over a widening of a gap between the haves and have nots, at a time of austerity, while demonising those on benefits. Well done. Must feel very proud

Arsehole"
. Everything that you have in life has to be earned . There will always be a gap between the rich and poor . Would you prefer us to lower standards . Have you analysed the reasons as to why soon people are poor ? We can hardly blame David Cameron for some people being poor.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Let's repeat that again so we're all clear:

If Oldham had been a disaster for Labour, as predicted by the papers and Fab's Tories, it would have been because of Corbyn and the party, and nothing to do with the local candidate.

Funny how the political narrative always manages to spin around to fit your personal bias, isn't it? It's enough to make you dizzy!

this

Corbyn is a breath of fresh air: love him or hate him, you can't ignore him. He will polarise opinion and is his own man.

Cameron has presided over a widening of a gap between the haves and have nots, at a time of austerity, while demonising those on benefits. Well done. Must feel very proud

Arsehole. Everything that you have in life has to be earned . There will always be a gap between the rich and poor . Would you prefer us to lower standards . Have you analysed the reasons as to why soon people are poor ? We can hardly blame David Cameron for some people being poor. "

Unless you inherited it at birth

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By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

Let's repeat that again so we're all clear:

If Oldham had been a disaster for Labour, as predicted by the papers and Fab's Tories, it would have been because of Corbyn and the party, and nothing to do with the local candidate.

Funny how the political narrative always manages to spin around to fit your personal bias, isn't it? It's enough to make you dizzy!

this

Corbyn is a breath of fresh air: love him or hate him, you can't ignore him. He will polarise opinion and is his own man.

Cameron has presided over a widening of a gap between the haves and have nots, at a time of austerity, while demonising those on benefits. Well done. Must feel very proud

Unless you inherited it at birth

"
. There is nothing wrong with inheriting at birth. It is good to see families making provision for future generations . That is an attribute to be proud of.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Let's repeat that again so we're all clear:

If Oldham had been a disaster for Labour, as predicted by the papers and Fab's Tories, it would have been because of Corbyn and the party, and nothing to do with the local candidate.

Funny how the political narrative always manages to spin around to fit your personal bias, isn't it? It's enough to make you dizzy!

this

Corbyn is a breath of fresh air: love him or hate him, you can't ignore him. He will polarise opinion and is his own man.

Cameron has presided over a widening of a gap between the haves and have nots, at a time of austerity, while demonising those on benefits. Well done. Must feel very proud

Unless you inherited it at birth

. There is nothing wrong with inheriting at birth. It is good to see families making provision for future generations . That is an attribute to be proud of. "

Yeah but you just said EVERYTHING you have in life has to be earned?

Nobody earns inheritance, it's just given to you

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

he's being made to look average because Labour are poor at the moment

Labour are looking the strongest they have done for years.

The latest IPSOS MORI from November shows voting intentions as Conservative 37%, Labour 35%.

Just one poll out of many, the Comres poll in November put the conservatives on 42% and Labour on 27%. There was a poll of polls which the 'This week' programme showed on Thursday night after question time. The poll of polls also showed Conservatives well in the lead.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

he's being made to look average because Labour are poor at the moment

Labour are looking the strongest they have done for years.

The latest IPSOS MORI from November shows voting intentions as Conservative 37%, Labour 35%.

I don't know how to put that across in terms of expensive cups of coffee I'm afraid.

They didn't increase their majority, they won the seat in the general election with around 14,000 majority, they only got 10,000 majority in Thursdays result.

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By *ammskiMan over a year ago

lytham st.annes

he's being made to look average because Labour are poor at the moment

Labour are looking the strongest they have done for years.

The latest IPSOS MORI from November shows voting intentions as Conservative 37%, Labour 35%.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

he's being made to look average because Labour are poor at the moment

Labour are looking the strongest they have done for years.

The latest IPSOS MORI from November shows voting intentions as Conservative 37%, Labour 35%.

I don't know how to put that across in terms of expensive cups of coffee I'm afraid.

They didn't increase their majority, they won the seat in the general election with around 14,000 majority, they only got 10,000 majority in Thursdays result. "

Sorry, I meant an increased share of the vote, of course.

It's quite funny reading this thread. Spin city across the board.

There's the usual suspects saying 'the idiots in Oldham will vote for a turd wearing a Labour rosette'.

But at the same time, the people in Oldham apparently voted for a strong Labour candidate on local issues.

And people voted for this man because he is Labour, and remember people in Oldham will vote for anyone who is from the Labour party...and yet exactly the same people are telling us that Corbyn has made Labour unelectable.

So, Labour are unelectable because of Corbyn, but those same people who won't vote for the local candidate because of Corbyn still voted for the local candidate in spite of Corbyn.

That's Tory logic at its very finest...or doublethink, as Orwell would have called it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Cameron skull fucked a pig and is STILL prime minister which alone is some feat.

Corbyn getting in fills me with dread.

Sadly they are the only two viable choices we have, it really is that simple.

It would be far better if all constituents voted like Oldham and chose the guy who lives there and works for the community.

Maybe then the political process may actually work. Your MP actually working for you is a genius idea. Sadly most work for themselves. If they had to really work for the local people and people voted for the person rather than the party imagine how much better our local communities would be and the change in the landscape of the house of commons would be immense and the then government would really have to earn their money.

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By *an_WoodMan over a year ago

Stafford

He has been fortunate with his opponents.First David Davies bottled it for the Tory leadership then Gordon Brown missed the opportunity of an early election when he was still popular for not being Tony Blair. Finally he had Ed Milliband who was good at tactics but weak on understanding the role of popularism for selling a party. He gambled on the Scottish independence vote and won. If he

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By *an_WoodMan over a year ago

Stafford

wins EU vote ? and I didn't mentioned you know who.

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

"His ten years as leader serves to neatly illustrate how bereft the party is of any political talent.

It also says a lot about the state of labour's political talent.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Of course we "usual suspects" spin. As you spin. This thread is spin. If the by-election had been lost, you would have been spinning it. The difference is you proclaim to be above spin, all the while you are doing so.

If it would have been erroneous for people to say it was JC's fault if the seat had been lost then it's erroneous to say a win has anything to do with him either. You also need to make your mind up. I particularly enjoyed the post where you knew more about the local situation than the people who actually lived in the constituency. Bravo.

But you can spin around and around with glee for the next 4 and a half years in opposition, and nothing will ever be as amusing as the meltdown on the threads the day after the GE. If you think Tories are backtracking from gleeful predictions about one by-election perhaps scroll back a few months and remind yourself of your own conduct

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By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

he's being made to look average because Labour are poor at the moment

Labour are looking the strongest they have done for years.

The latest IPSOS MORI from November shows voting intentions as Conservative 37%, Labour 35%.

I don't know how to put that across in terms of expensive cups of coffee I'm afraid.

They didn't increase their majority, they won the seat in the general election with around 14,000 majority, they only got 10,000 majority in Thursdays result.

Sorry, I meant an increased share of the vote, of course.

It's quite funny reading this thread. Spin city across the board.

There's the usual suspects saying 'the idiots in Oldham will vote for a turd wearing a Labour rosette'.

But at the same time, the people in Oldham apparently voted for a strong Labour candidate on local issues.

So, Labour are unelectable because of Corbyn, but those same people who won't vote for the local candidate because of Corbyn still voted for the local candidate in spite of Corbyn.

That's Tory logic at its very finest...or doublethink, as Orwell would have called it.

"
. Surely what happens in Oldham is irrelevant . What matters are the floating voters and how many marginal seats you are able to swing .

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'll vote for anyone who keeps me employed and my mortgage affordable. Cameron has a good track record for me. Why would i upset the apple cart?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So anyway guys, who do you want as the next leader of the Tories? Bearing in mind that whoever it is will be the next Prime Minister of course

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The political area on here can be dangerous ground in which to tread so I will try and say this carefully:

Cameron has:

Won every election he has fought (2).

Managed the first Coalition since WWII.

Increased his majority.

Turned the economy around from huge borrowing and Deficit.

Been straight on the difference between Debt and Deficit.

Created 2 million+ new jobs.

reduced huge public spending and is reducing it further.

Reduced the EU budget for the first time EVER.

Has given us a vote ON that EU for the first time in 40 years.

Fixed the £35 Billion black hole in Defence.

Has made sure we now have the money to pay for our defence.

Been brave enough to take shit decisions when necessary.

Been brave enough to CHANGE decisions when necessary.

Been honest enough to say 'Thank you but no more'.

And his two greatest achievements were saving us from more of Gordon Brown and his spending habits and then Red Ed Milliband and his Leftie habits.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

^ Cameron's still rubbish

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The latest IPSOS MORI from November shows voting intentions as Conservative 37%, Labour 35%."

So would this be the same Pollsters that said the same thing in May?

" They didn't increase their majority, they won the seat in the general election with around 14,000 majority, they only got 10,000 majority in Thursdays result. "

So they basically lost 28% of their majority then....

" And people voted for this man because he is Labour, and remember people in Oldham will vote for anyone who is from the Labour party...and yet exactly the same people are telling us that Corbyn has made Labour unelectable. "

So case proved then. Oldham WILL vote for anything Labour. Just they weren't QUITE so keen this time....

" That's Tory logic at its very finest... "

Well no its a simple factual statement actually...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Been straight on the difference between Debt and Deficit.

I'm not sure any of them are straight enough on debt vs deficit. It's a bugbear of mine and Cameron has definitely conflated the two when it suits.

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By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

"The political area on here can be dangerous ground in which to tread so I will try and say this carefully:

Cameron has:

Won every election he has fought (2).

Managed the first Coalition since WWII.

Increased his majority.

Turned the economy around from huge borrowing and Deficit.

Been straight on the difference between Debt and Deficit.

Created 2 million+ new jobs.

reduced huge public spending and is reducing it further.

Reduced the EU budget for the first time EVER.

Has given us a vote ON that EU for the first time in 40 years.

Fixed the £35 Billion black hole in Defence.

Has made sure we now have the money to pay for our defence.

Been brave enough to take shit decisions when necessary.

Been brave enough to CHANGE decisions when necessary.

Been honest enough to say 'Thank you but no more'.

And his two greatest achievements were saving us from more of Gordon Brown and his spending habits and then Red Ed Milliband and his Leftie habits.

"
. An excellent post and thanks for summarising all of David Camerons key achievements .

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By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

"^ Cameron's still rubbish "
. If David Cameron is classes as rubbish I dread to think what others woukd be classed as .

If a top quality prime minister is rubbish , what is Jeremy Corbyn then.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"^ Cameron's still rubbish . If David Cameron is classes as rubbish I dread to think what others woukd be classed as .

If a top quality prime minister is rubbish , what is Jeremy Corbyn then."

*clears throat*

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"He's absolutely rubbish. Are you able to quantify the factors that make him rubbish?

Let me count the ways...

Cameron is good on television, and accomplished and statesmanlike at big set-piece occasions. Cameron is very good at appearing ‘prime-ministerial’.

BUT

* David Cameron is a bad Prime Minister because he follows opinion rather than leading it. This makes him a weak leader.

* He has very little to show for his time in office other than a wreaked welfare state

* He has no idea about the daily struggle most families with children have to go through just to keep their children fed and clothed.

Nobody loves him.

That is why the Boris story is taking off.

imo"

See above

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"^ Cameron's still rubbish . If David Cameron is classes as rubbish I dread to think what others woukd be classed as .

If a top quality prime minister is rubbish , what is Jeremy Corbyn then."

The leader of the opposition.

Are there points for answers?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" * David Cameron is a bad Prime Minister because he follows opinion rather than leading it. This makes him a weak leader."

So if there is a majority of opinion saying do 'A' he should do 'B' simply to prove a point? I think his principled and well laid out belief that we should engage ISIL / Daesh in Syria as well as Iraq disproves your point. He had to persuade a very reluctant Parliament and took his time and achieved a massive success.

" * He has very little to show for his time in office other than a wreaked welfare state "

Errr ... maybe read my post above and get back to us? So where has he wrecked the Welfare State? He funded an extra £8 Billion in the NHS the last 5 years and will fund another £10 Billion EXTRA next 5. OK so he capped welfare to £26k a year. I agree. I worked 60 hours a week to earn that. And IDS has remodelled the entire benefit system with Universal credit which will be less complex and less expensive but deliver better benefits where they are needed. Brown rolled out a Tax Credit bombshell in 2003 and its gone from £3 Billion to £30 Billion a year. It wasn't Cameron wrecked welfare Brown did that. And there are 2 million people who are now NOT using welfare as they have jobs.

" * Cameron retains a Thatcherite faith in the free market; since the financial crisis began, it has felt more and more out of date, given all the market meltdowns and "the public's quite sudden distrust of the neoliberal economic project". "

Well that went right over my head so I will pass....

" * He has no idea about the daily struggle most families with children have to go through just to keep their children fed and clothed. "

Can you prove he doesn't? Oh wait no he is a 'Tory Toff' ... Sorry but stereotypical insults really don't cut it. And I would say when his son died after years of appalling disability he knew a damn sight more than many about difficult parenthood.

" ....but he's not Thatcher, he's not Blair. He is not a dominant figure. Nobody loves him. "

Well we don't need a Thatcher right now we need a Cameron / Osborne style of leadership. And no thank GOD he is no Blair. Or is that Bliar? No THIS PM goes to Parliament with a UN resolution for permission to go to war. AND tells the truth. THIS PM also has a Chancellor that isn't selling the family gold, running up huge debt for our Grandchildren and running a briefing campaign against his PM!!

If he was not a dominant figure we would not be having this conversation, we would not have elected him into power (twice) and he would not be leading a very difficult party to lead. Sorry your arguments are too weak.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

" * David Cameron is a bad Prime Minister because he follows opinion rather than leading it. This makes him a weak leader.

* He has very little to show for his time in office other than a wreaked welfare state

Well that went right over my head so I will pass....

* He has no idea about the daily struggle most families with children have to go through just to keep their children fed and clothed.

....but he's not Thatcher, he's not Blair. He is not a dominant figure. Nobody loves him.

Wow.

You spent a long time on that.

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

" * David Cameron is a bad Prime Minister because he follows opinion rather than leading it. This makes him a weak leader.

* He has very little to show for his time in office other than a wreaked welfare state

Well that went right over my head so I will pass....

* He has no idea about the daily struggle most families with children have to go through just to keep their children fed and clothed.

....but he's not Thatcher, he's not Blair. He is not a dominant figure. Nobody loves him.

Wow.

You spent a long time on that.

Soft, strong and lots.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't think either political party has done anything good in the last 40 years to be honest, I don't think they've done anything to terrible either!

The pervasive influence of commerce and trade has got out of hand though, it's like the only thing in the world that matters is err well money and that just seems a bad trend to follow!

One things for sure nobody has the slightest fucking clue of how to fix it, I mean the broken global capitalism thing is well ...fucked!

And that's not politics because every country in the world is fucked and nearly every country has completely different politics, set ups and currencies and, soooo if it's not politics or politicans

Whys it fucked?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

Too much knob.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He's absolutely rubbish"
yeah that

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And 'some' say that the french are chickens!! "Ö"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/12/15 02:04:24]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Some how I Doubt the Conservative is a dying breed. The population is getting older and by tradition the older become more right wing the older they get. Can't remember who said it but the saying

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains"

springs to mind. (Yes I could google it but can't ba arsed)

There will always be people the Tories can convince to vote for them, of course, whoever is in the party.

However as a political party, in term of number of members, they are on a steady decline. There members are indeed generally older, and that is only going one way.

It's probably the one thing that terrifies them more than the seemingly unstoppable popularity of Corbyn."

Whonis Corbyn popular with? Aside from people on forums I've not met one person (which includes the massive amount of die hard labour folks) in real life who like him.

Most traditional labour voters see him as nothing more than a disgraceful coward given recent events.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think either political party has done anything good in the last 40 years to be honest, I don't think they've done anything to terrible either!

The pervasive influence of commerce and trade has got out of hand though, it's like the only thing in the world that matters is err well money and that just seems a bad trend to follow!

One things for sure nobody has the slightest fucking clue of how to fix it, I mean the broken global capitalism thing is well ...fucked!

And that's not politics because every country in the world is fucked and nearly every country has completely different politics, set ups and currencies and, soooo if it's not politics or politicans

Whys it fucked?"

Money is simply a numerical representation of human work and efforts.

So it's no surprise that to humans it is important.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

he's being made to look average because Labour are poor at the moment

Labour are looking the strongest they have done for years.

The latest IPSOS MORI from November shows voting intentions as Conservative 37%, Labour 35%.

I don't know how to put that across in terms of expensive cups of coffee I'm afraid.

They didn't increase their majority, they won the seat in the general election with around 14,000 majority, they only got 10,000 majority in Thursdays result.

Sorry, I meant an increased share of the vote, of course.

It's quite funny reading this thread. Spin city across the board.

There's the usual suspects saying 'the idiots in Oldham will vote for a turd wearing a Labour rosette'.

But at the same time, the people in Oldham apparently voted for a strong Labour candidate on local issues.

So, Labour are unelectable because of Corbyn, but those same people who won't vote for the local candidate because of Corbyn still voted for the local candidate in spite of Corbyn.

That's Tory logic at its very finest...or doublethink, as Orwell would have called it.

You keep poking this dead horse.

Two questions;

do you understand the concept of a safe seat?

Do you understand the difference between a general election and a bielection?

Because "making labour unelectable" does not mean "labour will lose every single seat in every single vote" it simply means it will erode enough votes in the marginal seats that change hands (safe seats can be happily ignored) that they do not get a majority.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Best post of the thread.

I'll second that

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Good point well made. Labour lost 28% of their majority. In about 60 or more of their Northern seats they don't have that much to lose and its UKIP (as in Oldham) who are running them a very strong and more importantly consistent second. Some places will NEVER vote Conservative regardless. But they are prepared to vote UKIP as a reaction to the Leftward lurch of Labour (and the LibDems).

And some final thoughts if I may? This country does not take kindly to people who express sympathies with murdering terrorists like the IRA and who would rather we did not kill the assassins of Al Qaeda and ISIL. We also respect and admire our Armed Forces and are not well disposed to those who would disband the British Army. We especially do not take kindly to people who, when our Nation is threatened by nuclear war or terrorist murders, step back and say 'oh wait .... no ...'.

Now I don't know who voted Corbyn in as Leader but as a Tory I am most grateful on one hand but greatly worried for our Democracy on the other. We NEED a strong Opposition. We NEED close scrutiny of our Government. Labour are in a total mess and going both Leftward and backwards. I hope that Hilary Benn will now realise his potential and his duty and step up to replace Corbyn and his coterie of Socialist thugs. His speech last week was the best I have witnessed and made Corbyn look the ill prepared, ignorant fool he is. THAT day was Parliamentary democracy at its very best and as a lifelong Tory I thought Benn was brilliant.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You seem to be of the opinion that the opposition are there to keep an eye on the party YOU voted in because there highly untrustworthy!.

That's not the job of the opposition...

I'll give you a clue..

It's in the title, there job is to oppose the government!

Now what's that you were saying about Hillary benn!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You seem to be of the opinion that the opposition are there to keep an eye on the party YOU voted in because there highly untrustworthy!.

That's not the job of the opposition...

I'll give you a clue..

It's in the title, there job is to oppose the government!

Now what's that you were saying about Hillary benn!"

So no matter what the government wants to do, good or bad, the opposition has to oppose it?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You seem to be of the opinion that the opposition are there to keep an eye on the party YOU voted in because there highly untrustworthy!.

That's not the job of the opposition...

I'll give you a clue..

It's in the title, there job is to oppose the government!

Now what's that you were saying about Hillary benn!

So no matter what the government wants to do, good or bad, the opposition has to oppose it?

"
.

It's meant to be counter balance, it's point is to stop undue influence because you can't influence both points of _iew!. the government don't need the opposition to bring in laws, that's the whole point of a majority and a whip.

The minute you get all parties agreeing then democracy really is fucking dead!

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By *an_WoodMan over a year ago

Stafford

Blah blah blah. Coteria of socialist thugs or socialite thugs. Ask the Tatler tories

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You seem to be of the opinion that the opposition are there to keep an eye on the party YOU voted in because there highly untrustworthy!.

That's not the job of the opposition...

I'll give you a clue..

It's in the title, there job is to oppose the government!

Now what's that you were saying about Hillary benn!

So no matter what the government wants to do, good or bad, the opposition has to oppose it?

The minute you get all parties agreeing then democracy really is fucking dead!"

So what if the government proposed raising tax credits for working families, or raising the minimum wage or reducing the retirement age etc?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Some how I Doubt the Conservative is a dying breed. The population is getting older and by tradition the older become more right wing the older they get. Can't remember who said it but the saying

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains"

springs to mind. (Yes I could google it but can't ba arsed)"

I like the quote "any man that is over 30 etc and not a conservative has no brains" Superb and I totally agree!!Maybe we should add a bit more ie all those people that voted Corbyn in are all brain dead as he couldn't run a corner shop let alone a country!! Nice photos female of Tyne couple very sexy

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You seem to be of the opinion that the opposition are there to keep an eye on the party YOU voted in because there highly untrustworthy!.

That's not the job of the opposition...

I'll give you a clue..

It's in the title, there job is to oppose the government!

Now what's that you were saying about Hillary benn!

So no matter what the government wants to do, good or bad, the opposition has to oppose it?

The minute you get all parties agreeing then democracy really is fucking dead!

So what if the government proposed raising tax credits for working families, or raising the minimum wage or reducing the retirement age etc? "
.

You mean like under a labour government!.

Then the Tories job in opposition would be to appose it and offer an alternate opinion for that is what gives the voter democracy and something to actually have a choice in!

If I give you the choice to vote to eat this plate of spaghetti or that plate of spaghetti then you can choose which plate, however you'll always get spaghetti!

Parties working together for the common good, sounds great but then in reality you don't need parties just mps! And then your open to someone of great influence running the whole show

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You seem to be of the opinion that the opposition are there to keep an eye on the party YOU voted in because there highly untrustworthy!.

That's not the job of the opposition...

I'll give you a clue..

It's in the title, there job is to oppose the government!

Now what's that you were saying about Hillary benn!

So no matter what the government wants to do, good or bad, the opposition has to oppose it?

The minute you get all parties agreeing then democracy really is fucking dead!

So what if the government proposed raising tax credits for working families, or raising the minimum wage or reducing the retirement age etc? .

You mean like under a labour government!.

Then the Tories job in opposition would be to appose it and offer an alternate opinion for that is what gives the voter democracy and something to actually have a choice in!

If I give you the choice to vote to eat this plate of spaghetti or that plate of spaghetti then you can choose which plate, however you'll always get spaghetti!

Parties working together for the common good, sounds great but then in reality you don't need parties just mps! And then your open to someone of great influence running the whole show"

Oh dear

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You seem to be of the opinion that the opposition are there to keep an eye on the party YOU voted in because there highly untrustworthy!.

That's not the job of the opposition...

I'll give you a clue..

It's in the title, there job is to oppose the government!

Now what's that you were saying about Hillary benn!"

Well given your reply I don't think you really understand how a Parliamentary Democracy works. It is called 'her Majesty's Loyal Opposition because it has an alternative outlook and therefore (being the second largest party) has the right to challenhge and argue against the Government. And by doing THAT it holds the Government to account. It also does it by asking questions and arguing in debates. Sometimes it will carry a majority in the House and win. Mostly it won't. But the challenges and questioning are the mechanisms where people like me are informed and protected. Because I vote Conservative doesn't mean I don't believe in Democracy ...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You seem to be of the opinion that the opposition are there to keep an eye on the party YOU voted in because there highly untrustworthy!.

That's not the job of the opposition...

I'll give you a clue..

It's in the title, there job is to oppose the government!

Now what's that you were saying about Hillary benn!

So no matter what the government wants to do, good or bad, the opposition has to oppose it?

The minute you get all parties agreeing then democracy really is fucking dead!

So what if the government proposed raising tax credits for working families, or raising the minimum wage or reducing the retirement age etc? .

You mean like under a labour government!.

Then the Tories job in opposition would be to appose it and offer an alternate opinion for that is what gives the voter democracy and something to actually have a choice in!

If I give you the choice to vote to eat this plate of spaghetti or that plate of spaghetti then you can choose which plate, however you'll always get spaghetti!

Parties working together for the common good, sounds great but then in reality you don't need parties just mps! And then your open to someone of great influence running the whole show

Oh dear

"
.

Oh dear what?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Blah blah blah. Coteria of socialist thugs or socialite thugs. Ask the Tatler tories "

Err .. Tories? It was ONE bloke who was a daft prick apparently. Now everything else is conjecture and guesswork but there is now an independent inquiry and we will see. The apparently related suicide is a tragedy and we will find out what the real reasons were for that as well which will help his distraught parents.

But all we have at the moment is snide comments from Lefties inventing 10 second soundbites like 'Tatler Tories'. Same shit different day in the world of 'kinder politics'? If people don't agree with them then the real thugs come out to play. Did you listen to Alan Johnson's speech last week? He nailed them right there and it is HIS party. The same party that arranged the spitting shouting mob outside the Tory Party conference. The same party that now has 'Momentum' as Corbyn's foot soldiers. The party of Damien McBride and Alastair Campbell.... Yeah some REALLY tasty thugs right there ...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You seem to be of the opinion that the opposition are there to keep an eye on the party YOU voted in because there highly untrustworthy!.

That's not the job of the opposition...

I'll give you a clue..

It's in the title, there job is to oppose the government!

Now what's that you were saying about Hillary benn!

That's what I just said!

You wanted to change corbyn fit Hillary benn because he thinks like a Tory occasionally.

I said I'd prefer somebody who opposes the incumbent government, I don't need somebody to agree with them... They've got a majority they can do what they bleeding want, if everybody had a debate and started from the same point it would last one second "I agree", then fresh thinking and ideas or even heaven forbid.. I might actually be persuaded by there argument, this would never come about because having no separate opinions means no debate.

On that note I think corbyn is doing the best job in opposition in a generation because he's posing alternative ideas!

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By *44bertCouple over a year ago

Inverness

He's a pig fucking psychotic.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You seem to be of the opinion that the opposition are there to keep an eye on the party YOU voted in because there highly untrustworthy!.

That's not the job of the opposition...

I'll give you a clue..

It's in the title, there job is to oppose the government!

Now what's that you were saying about Hillary benn!

That's what I just said!

You wanted to change corbyn fit Hillary benn because he thinks like a Tory occasionally.

On that note I think corbyn is doing the best job in opposition in a generation because he's posing alternative ideas!"

Whats the point of posing alternative ideas that few want or believe in? Anyone can do that

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He's a pig fucking psychotic. "

Fandabbydozy!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You seem to be of the opinion that the opposition are there to keep an eye on the party YOU voted in because there highly untrustworthy!.

That's not the job of the opposition...

I'll give you a clue..

It's in the title, there job is to oppose the government!

Now what's that you were saying about Hillary benn!

That's what I just said!

You wanted to change corbyn fit Hillary benn because he thinks like a Tory occasionally.

On that note I think corbyn is doing the best job in opposition in a generation because he's posing alternative ideas!

Whats the point of posing alternative ideas that few want or believe in? Anyone can do that"
.

Because that's the point of democracy to give alternative options, how do you know nobody wants something until it's been posed?

Using your analogy, we'd have never outlawed slavery or given women rights or homosexuals!

These things always come from alternative posing of questions!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You seem to be of the opinion that the opposition are there to keep an eye on the party YOU voted in because there highly untrustworthy!.

That's not the job of the opposition...

I'll give you a clue..

It's in the title, there job is to oppose the government!

Now what's that you were saying about Hillary benn!

That's what I just said!

You wanted to change corbyn fit Hillary benn because he thinks like a Tory occasionally.

On that note I think corbyn is doing the best job in opposition in a generation because he's posing alternative ideas!"

Nope he's reading out emails....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You seem to be of the opinion that the opposition are there to keep an eye on the party YOU voted in because there highly untrustworthy!.

That's not the job of the opposition...

I'll give you a clue..

It's in the title, there job is to oppose the government!

Now what's that you were saying about Hillary benn!

That's what I just said!

You wanted to change corbyn fit Hillary benn because he thinks like a Tory occasionally.

On that note I think corbyn is doing the best job in opposition in a generation because he's posing alternative ideas!

Nope he's reading out emails...."
.

Again it's not strictly his job to dream up the alternative _iews, just to represent them, whether this comes from emails, reading it in a paper, having a conversation with a constituent or debating somebody on a swinging site is irrelevant!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He's a pig fucking psychotic. "

You have personally witnessed this psychotic behaviour did you? Oh wait no ... You didn't did you? No you sound like some Scottish SNP moron abusing an English Prime Minister and adding sod all to what has been a very informative and respectful discussion.

Please do forgive my own stereotypical abuse but if you don't like the heat keep out of the kitchen ...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Roll on another 10 years

Best leader since thatcher

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He's a pig fucking psychotic. "

Based on?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No Ifs, No buts, No 3rd runway.

Has exactly the same morals as Pol Pot and as honest as Stalin.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No Ifs, No buts, No 3rd runway.

Has exactly the same morals as Pol Pot and as honest as Stalin."

Your comparing him to a violent dictator who killed millions of his own for the greater good and a maniac who killed people for wearing glasses because they weren't prolaterian enough

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No Ifs, No buts, No 3rd runway.

Has exactly the same morals as Pol Pot and as honest as Stalin.

Your comparing him to a violent dictator who killed millions of his own for the greater good and a maniac who killed people for wearing glasses because they weren't prolaterian enough "

You got it in one

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No Ifs, No buts, No 3rd runway.

Has exactly the same morals as Pol Pot and as honest as Stalin.

Your comparing him to a violent dictator who killed millions of his own for the greater good and a maniac who killed people for wearing glasses because they weren't prolaterian enough

You got it in one

Did you trip and bang your head today or just so ignorant and misinformed that because he's a Tory you automatically hate him and think that a democratically elected person he is as bad as some of the evilest men in the world?

Let me guess - bedroom tax and austerity hit you financially?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No Ifs, No buts, No 3rd runway.

Has exactly the same morals as Pol Pot and as honest as Stalin.

Your comparing him to a violent dictator who killed millions of his own for the greater good and a maniac who killed people for wearing glasses because they weren't prolaterian enough

You got it in one

Let me guess - bedroom tax and austerity hit you financially?

Non of the above actually,just hate those that think they are above everyone else and prepare to lie to keep the position.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No Ifs, No buts, No 3rd runway.

Has exactly the same morals as Pol Pot and as honest as Stalin.

Your comparing him to a violent dictator who killed millions of his own for the greater good and a maniac who killed people for wearing glasses because they weren't prolaterian enough

You got it in one

Let me guess - bedroom tax and austerity hit you financially?

Non of the above actually,just hate those that think they are above everyone else and prepare to lie to keep the position."

Fair enough - what's this based on? Any fact or just your perception of him?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Roll on another 10 years

Best leader since thatcher "
.

He's stepping down in four years!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Roll on another 10 years

Best leader since thatcher .

He's stepping down in four years!"

Gutting - I'm sure Boris will be a good replacement

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Roll on another 10 years

Best leader since thatcher .

He's stepping down in four years!

Gutting - I'm sure Boris will be a good replacement "
.

I like Boris as a person, I think he's a charming witty guy, I just couldn't vote for him, he's far to rigid in his ideology of evidence based practises that work.

He still believes in trickle down economics and that's been disproved for 30 years, he thinks the government should take one persons theory like piers corbyn seriously despite the government never taking the theory of 30,000 other experts seriously and he bases that on a snowy day in London saying he can't recollect snow like this in his youth

I like him on panel shows like hignfy..

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"He's a pig fucking psychotic.

Corbyn fucked Diane Abbott. Not sure which one is worse.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Roll on another 10 years

Best leader since thatcher .

He's stepping down in four years!

Gutting - I'm sure Boris will be a good replacement .

I like Boris as a person, I think he's a charming witty guy, I just couldn't vote for him, he's far to rigid in his ideology of evidence based practises that work.

I like him on panel shows like hignfy.."

What evidence shows trickle down economics doesn't work and please share where Boris has been ideologically tied to said economic theory

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You seem to be of the opinion that the opposition are there to keep an eye on the party YOU voted in because there highly untrustworthy!.

That's not the job of the opposition...

I'll give you a clue..

It's in the title, there job is to oppose the government!

Now what's that you were saying about Hillary benn!

That's what I just said!

You wanted to change corbyn fit Hillary benn because he thinks like a Tory occasionally.

On that note I think corbyn is doing the best job in opposition in a generation because he's posing alternative ideas!

Nope he's reading out emails.....

Sorry mate, i understand now. You said "he's posing alternate ideas", when I mentioned the fact that he reads out other people's emails (ideas if you will), you countered with "it's not strictly his job to dream up other ideas"....I understand you now...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The political area on here can be dangerous ground in which to tread so I will try and say this carefully:

Cameron has:

Won every election he has fought (2).

Managed the first Coalition since WWII.

Increased his majority.

Turned the economy around from huge borrowing and Deficit.

Been straight on the difference between Debt and Deficit.

Created 2 million+ new jobs.

reduced huge public spending and is reducing it further.

Reduced the EU budget for the first time EVER.

Has given us a vote ON that EU for the first time in 40 years.

Fixed the £35 Billion black hole in Defence.

Has made sure we now have the money to pay for our defence.

Been brave enough to take shit decisions when necessary.

Been brave enough to CHANGE decisions when necessary.

Been honest enough to say 'Thank you but no more'.

And his two greatest achievements were saving us from more of Gordon Brown and his spending habits and then Red Ed Milliband and his Leftie habits.

This is an interesting post, but some contradictions.

eg - winning 2010? But managing a coalition. One rules out the other.

As for the economics - we've flatlined for years.

EU referendum - he was forced into this to try kill ukip, and must now be regretting big time. Kippers turned out to talk the talk, but didn't walk the walk + now he's got a no win referendum to deal with.

Similar to how he nearly blew up the union last year-not a good negotiator when under serious pressure.

Was it Murdoch, on first meeting him - came away saying he couldn't believe how lightweight the guy was

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The political area on here can be dangerous ground in which to tread so I will try and say this carefully:

Cameron has:

Won every election he has fought (2).

Managed the first Coalition since WWII.

Increased his majority.

Turned the economy around from huge borrowing and Deficit.

Been straight on the difference between Debt and Deficit.

Created 2 million+ new jobs.

reduced huge public spending and is reducing it further.

Reduced the EU budget for the first time EVER.

Has given us a vote ON that EU for the first time in 40 years.

Fixed the £35 Billion black hole in Defence.

Has made sure we now have the money to pay for our defence.

Been brave enough to take shit decisions when necessary.

Been brave enough to CHANGE decisions when necessary.

Been honest enough to say 'Thank you but no more'.

And his two greatest achievements were saving us from more of Gordon Brown and his spending habits and then Red Ed Milliband and his Leftie habits.

This is an interesting post, but some contradictions.

eg - winning 2010? But managing a coalition. One rules out the other.

As for the economics - we've flatlined for years.

Similar to how he nearly blew up the union last year-not a good negotiator when under serious pressure.

Was it Murdoch, on first meeting him - came away saying he couldn't believe how lightweight the guy was"

Your wrong - sorry

Yes he won as majority - but I'm less fussed with that

Your statement - flatlined for years

We are the fastest growing g7 nation in the world and the oecd has us down as one of the fastest growing developed countries post 2008 recession

A lot of that is down to the economics and budgetary decisions of the Tory party

All - Murdoch - the King of spin and phone hacking - not ideal using him as a reference point to judge Cameron

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"Some how I Doubt the Conservative is a dying breed. The population is getting older and by tradition the older become more right wing the older they get. Can't remember who said it but the saying

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains"

springs to mind. (Yes I could google it but can't ba arsed)

There will always be people the Tories can convince to vote for them, of course, whoever is in the party.

However as a political party, in term of number of members, they are on a steady decline. There members are indeed generally older, and that is only going one way.

It's probably the one thing that terrifies them more than the seemingly unstoppable popularity of Corbyn.

Whonis Corbyn popular with? Aside from people on forums I've not met one person (which includes the massive amount of die hard labour folks) in real life who like him.

Most traditional labour voters see him as nothing more than a disgraceful coward given recent events.

The answer to that particular question is the young.

I live in the Tory heartlands and I know people who have actually joined the Labour party because of him...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Some how I Doubt the Conservative is a dying breed. The population is getting older and by tradition the older become more right wing the older they get. Can't remember who said it but the saying

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains"

springs to mind. (Yes I could google it but can't ba arsed)

Yeah, except that's not the right quote.

It goes along lines of

-under 30 + not a socialist , no heart.

-over 30 + still a socialist - no brains.

No mention of conservatives/liberals/anyone else

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

I see our illustrious PM and all I can think is...

Nob in a pig.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I know several people, myself included who have left Unite the union, and moved to a union that doesn't financially support the Labour party.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

he's being made to look average because Labour are poor at the moment

Labour are looking the strongest they have done for years.

The latest IPSOS MORI from November shows voting intentions as Conservative 37%, Labour 35%.

I don't know how to put that across in terms of expensive cups of coffee I'm afraid.

They didn't increase their majority, they won the seat in the general election with around 14,000 majority, they only got 10,000 majority in Thursdays result.

Sorry, I meant an increased share of the vote, of course.

It's quite funny reading this thread. Spin city across the board.

There's the usual suspects saying 'the idiots in Oldham will vote for a turd wearing a Labour rosette'.

But at the same time, the people in Oldham apparently voted for a strong Labour candidate on local issues.

So, Labour are unelectable because of Corbyn, but those same people who won't vote for the local candidate because of Corbyn still voted for the local candidate in spite of Corbyn.

That's Tory logic at its very finest...or doublethink, as Orwell would have called it.

You keep poking this dead horse.

Two questions;

do you understand the concept of a safe seat?

Do you understand the difference between a general election and a bielection?

And let's see if you can manage to understand this, if I repeat it yet again.

Oldham, the by-election, was predicted by the media, who claim that Corbyn is making Labour unelectable, to be a rout for Labour. Not that they would lose the seat you understand (although some were foolish enough to claim that), but that because of Corbyn, despite a popular local candidate Labour would suffer a massive loss in their share of the vote - particularly significant because it is, as you have managed to understand, a safe seat.

This _iew was regurgitated wholesale by the majority of Fab's usual suspects. And why wouldn't it be? Political analysis here is, shall we say, frothy.

What actually happened is that Labour didn't suffer a rout, or a disaster, or even a measurable loss in their share of the vote.

They INCREASED their share of the vote.

I'll repeat this once more, and it might sink in. The Labour Party, led by the man who is supposedly making them unelectable, INCREASED their share of the vote in a seat regarded by the nation as the first test of his leadership, and predicted by all as being a disaster.

So, there is no reason to think Corbyn's leadership will cause an erosion in marginal seats, as it is being predicted by the same people who got Oldham as wrong as it is possible to get.

Smell the fear!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I just can't see why anyone would vote Corbyn into power. As things stand I'm employed and my mortgage doesn't control my lifestyle. What more could i ask for?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If Corbyn threatens any of that then yes I'd be fearful!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I just can't see why anyone would vote Corbyn into power. As things stand I'm employed and my mortgage doesn't control my lifestyle. What more could i ask for?"

He won't ever be in power as Prime Minister.

In five years time, someone on this thread will be spitting out his dummy again, having temper tantrums again

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Roll on another 10 years

Best leader since thatcher .

He's stepping down in four years!

Gutting - I'm sure Boris will be a good replacement .

I like Boris as a person, I think he's a charming witty guy, I just couldn't vote for him, he's far to rigid in his ideology of evidence based practises that work.

I like him on panel shows like hignfy..

What evidence shows trickle down economics doesn't work and please share where Boris has been ideologically tied to said economic theory"
.

It's kinda a thing you have to study rather than one paragraph on here can explain!.

I'll give you a quick idea of where to start.

The last 40 years have seen the top tax rate fall in practically every western economy.

In that 40 years we've not seen economic growth, wage growth, income growth or job creation as trickle down economics predicted!

In fact if cutting the highest earning tax rate in half or more, which is what they've done, created jobs... Well right now we'd be awash in jobs throughout the western world!

Any capitalist in the world will tell you.. The last thing they want to do, the very very last thing, is create a job, that's a last resort measure.

The only thing that creates jobs are... Consumers and consumer demand!

Now if you suck all the money out of the biggest bit of that consumer demand by taxing the biggest section more and let a very small section have more to spend by cutting there tax, what would you expect to see happen.

I'd expect the economy selling stuff to the masses to struggle as the masses are deprived of more and more money! (Tax)

And I'd expect to see the economy that sells the very very exclusive wealthiest stuff to boom, as that section gets wealthier and wealthier as there tax gets cut, leaving them with more money to spend.

I was always sceptical about trickle down economics when I was younger, I think the facts show it's been an abject failure!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

he's being made to look average because Labour are poor at the moment

Labour are looking the strongest they have done for years.

The latest IPSOS MORI from November shows voting intentions as Conservative 37%, Labour 35%.

I don't know how to put that across in terms of expensive cups of coffee I'm afraid.

They didn't increase their majority, they won the seat in the general election with around 14,000 majority, they only got 10,000 majority in Thursdays result.

Sorry, I meant an increased share of the vote, of course.

It's quite funny reading this thread. Spin city across the board.

There's the usual suspects saying 'the idiots in Oldham will vote for a turd wearing a Labour rosette'.

But at the same time, the people in Oldham apparently voted for a strong Labour candidate on local issues.

So, Labour are unelectable because of Corbyn, but those same people who won't vote for the local candidate because of Corbyn still voted for the local candidate in spite of Corbyn.

That's Tory logic at its very finest...or doublethink, as Orwell would have called it.

You keep poking this dead horse.

Two questions;

do you understand the concept of a safe seat?

Do you understand the difference between a general election and a bielection?

And let's see if you can manage to understand this, if I repeat it yet again.

This _iew was regurgitated wholesale by the majority of Fab's usual suspects. And why wouldn't it be? Political analysis here is, shall we say, frothy.

What actually happened is that Labour didn't suffer a rout, or a disaster, or even a measurable loss in their share of the vote.

They INCREASED their share of the vote.

So, there is no reason to think Corbyn's leadership will cause an erosion in marginal seats, as it is being predicted by the same people who got Oldham as wrong as it is possible to get.

Smell the fear!

Why do you keep on with this "smell the fear"?

What's going to be happening that people need to be fearful?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You seem to be of the opinion that the opposition are there to keep an eye on the party YOU voted in because there highly untrustworthy!.

That's not the job of the opposition...

I'll give you a clue..

It's in the title, there job is to oppose the government!

Now what's that you were saying about Hillary benn!

That's what I just said!

You wanted to change corbyn fit Hillary benn because he thinks like a Tory occasionally.

On that note I think corbyn is doing the best job in opposition in a generation because he's posing alternative ideas!

Nope he's reading out emails.....

Are you deliberately being awkward.." He's posing alternate ideas in his job as leader of the opposition".

Those "ideas" don't need to be his, just as David Camerons "ideas" as leader of the government don't actually need to be his

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Roll on another 10 years

Best leader since thatcher .

He's stepping down in four years!

Gutting - I'm sure Boris will be a good replacement .

I like Boris as a person, I think he's a charming witty guy, I just couldn't vote for him, he's far to rigid in his ideology of evidence based practises that work.

I like him on panel shows like hignfy..

What evidence shows trickle down economics doesn't work and please share where Boris has been ideologically tied to said economic theory.

It's kinda a thing you have to study rather than one paragraph on here can explain!.

I'll give you a quick idea of where to start.

The last 40 years have seen the top tax rate fall in practically every western economy.

In that 40 years we've not seen economic growth, wage growth, income growth or job creation as trickle down economics predicted!

In fact if cutting the highest earning tax rate in half or more, which is what they've done, created jobs... Well right now we'd be awash in jobs throughout the western world!

Any capitalist in the world will tell you.. The last thing they want to do, the very very last thing, is create a job, that's a last resort measure.

The only thing that creates jobs are... Consumers and consumer demand!

I'd expect the economy selling stuff to the masses to struggle as the masses are deprived of more and more money! (Tax)

I was always sceptical about trickle down economics when I was younger, I think the facts show it's been an abject failure!

So what? Please tell me how this affects me?!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" This is an interesting post, but some contradictions."

Well thank you. How so?

" winning 2010? But managing a coalition. One rules out the other. "

Well not exactly. When the Queen asks you to be Prime Minister it is because you command the Confidence of the House. He WON that Confidence by having the number of seats to put him in power being the biggest single party. He created a big majority by giving up some policies as did the LibDems. Credit to all concerned.

" As for the economics - we've flatlined for years. "

Oh dear. I think you have been watching Ed Balls stupid hand gestures. There was no recession post 2010. There was no double or triple dip recession either. Indeed we outgrew every G7 (well G8 actually) economy for 3 years. Only America is ahead of us this year. No flatline there.

" EU referendum - he was forced into this to try kill ukip "

So he listened to what the Nation was saying then? Surely a good thing?

" Similar to how he nearly blew up the union last year-not a good negotiator when under serious pressure. "

Sorry where did he 'negotiate' with the SNP? They were given a mandate by the Scottish voters, demanded a referendum and he arranged it. Christ whats wrong with that? Oh wait you didn't see the Scots are still part of the Union? (Just don't get me started on the Barnett Formula ...)

" Was it Murdoch, on first meeting him - came away saying he couldn't believe how lightweight the guy was "

Who gives a flying f**k what a phone tapping media merchant has to say.....

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If Corbyn threatens any of that then yes I'd be fearful!"
.

But have you considered that maybe there's... I dunno like thousands of people of haven't got a job or are under employed or have massive mortgages that.. Well maybe there'd have a different opinion to you.

Maybe just maybe I'm guessing here maybe corbyn is sort of well aiming his alternate ideas at them and not you

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Roll on another 10 years

Best leader since thatcher .

He's stepping down in four years!

Gutting - I'm sure Boris will be a good replacement .

I like Boris as a person, I think he's a charming witty guy, I just couldn't vote for him, he's far to rigid in his ideology of evidence based practises that work.

I like him on panel shows like hignfy..

What evidence shows trickle down economics doesn't work and please share where Boris has been ideologically tied to said economic theory.

It's kinda a thing you have to study rather than one paragraph on here can explain!.

I'll give you a quick idea of where to start.

The last 40 years have seen the top tax rate fall in practically every western economy.

In that 40 years we've not seen economic growth, wage growth, income growth or job creation as trickle down economics predicted!

In fact if cutting the highest earning tax rate in half or more, which is what they've done, created jobs... Well right now we'd be awash in jobs throughout the western world!

Any capitalist in the world will tell you.. The last thing they want to do, the very very last thing, is create a job, that's a last resort measure.

The only thing that creates jobs are... Consumers and consumer demand!

I'd expect the economy selling stuff to the masses to struggle as the masses are deprived of more and more money! (Tax)

I was always sceptical about trickle down economics when I was younger, I think the facts show it's been an abject failure!

I studied economics at uni - and that made no sense

You miss the point that tax has fallen across all levels and not just the top

Furthermore reduction in tax has left to an entrepreneurial market echo key driving jobs and wealth

Your understanding of taxation and economic stimulus I a a fried to say is flawed

Good luck and try again next time

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Roll on another 10 years

Best leader since thatcher .

He's stepping down in four years!

Gutting - I'm sure Boris will be a good replacement .

I like Boris as a person, I think he's a charming witty guy, I just couldn't vote for him, he's far to rigid in his ideology of evidence based practises that work.

I like him on panel shows like hignfy..

What evidence shows trickle down economics doesn't work and please share where Boris has been ideologically tied to said economic theory.

It's kinda a thing you have to study rather than one paragraph on here can explain!.

I'll give you a quick idea of where to start.

The last 40 years have seen the top tax rate fall in practically every western economy.

In that 40 years we've not seen economic growth, wage growth, income growth or job creation as trickle down economics predicted!

In fact if cutting the highest earning tax rate in half or more, which is what they've done, created jobs... Well right now we'd be awash in jobs throughout the western world!

Any capitalist in the world will tell you.. The last thing they want to do, the very very last thing, is create a job, that's a last resort measure.

The only thing that creates jobs are... Consumers and consumer demand!

I'd expect the economy selling stuff to the masses to struggle as the masses are deprived of more and more money! (Tax)

I was always sceptical about trickle down economics when I was younger, I think the facts show it's been an abject failure!

So what? Please tell me how this affects me?!"
.

I don't think anything effects you except maybe class A drugs

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" The Labour Party, led by the man who is supposedly making them unelectable, INCREASED their share of the vote "

Well technically yes they did but they actually lost 28% of their majority. And it is majorities not percentage points that win seats especially in marginals. Oldham was no marginal but when 28% of your support disappears you are in trouble. Turnout was just over 40%, down from 59.6% at the general election and they only increased the percentage by 7.5%.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Roll on another 10 years

Best leader since thatcher .

He's stepping down in four years!

Gutting - I'm sure Boris will be a good replacement .

I like Boris as a person, I think he's a charming witty guy, I just couldn't vote for him, he's far to rigid in his ideology of evidence based practises that work.

I like him on panel shows like hignfy..

What evidence shows trickle down economics doesn't work and please share where Boris has been ideologically tied to said economic theory.

It's kinda a thing you have to study rather than one paragraph on here can explain!.

I'll give you a quick idea of where to start.

The last 40 years have seen the top tax rate fall in practically every western economy.

In that 40 years we've not seen economic growth, wage growth, income growth or job creation as trickle down economics predicted!

In fact if cutting the highest earning tax rate in half or more, which is what they've done, created jobs... Well right now we'd be awash in jobs throughout the western world!

Any capitalist in the world will tell you.. The last thing they want to do, the very very last thing, is create a job, that's a last resort measure.

The only thing that creates jobs are... Consumers and consumer demand!

I'd expect the economy selling stuff to the masses to struggle as the masses are deprived of more and more money! (Tax)

I was always sceptical about trickle down economics when I was younger, I think the facts show it's been an abject failure!

So what? Please tell me how this affects me?!.

I don't think anything effects you except maybe class A drugs

WTF is that supposed to mean?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Interesting character Cameron, given his background he more often speaks to Middle England far better than all of his opponents. He seems prone to the odd gaff, like announcing his retirement from his kitchen. But refusing to apologise last week in the Syria debate for suggesting that the Labour leader is a terrorist sympathiser showed a cool head under pressure and a refusal to retreat from the truth.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Roll on another 10 years

Best leader since thatcher .

He's stepping down in four years!

Gutting - I'm sure Boris will be a good replacement .

I like Boris as a person, I think he's a charming witty guy, I just couldn't vote for him, he's far to rigid in his ideology of evidence based practises that work.

I like him on panel shows like hignfy..

What evidence shows trickle down economics doesn't work and please share where Boris has been ideologically tied to said economic theory.

It's kinda a thing you have to study rather than one paragraph on here can explain!.

I'll give you a quick idea of where to start.

The last 40 years have seen the top tax rate fall in practically every western economy.

In that 40 years we've not seen economic growth, wage growth, income growth or job creation as trickle down economics predicted!

In fact if cutting the highest earning tax rate in half or more, which is what they've done, created jobs... Well right now we'd be awash in jobs throughout the western world!

Any capitalist in the world will tell you.. The last thing they want to do, the very very last thing, is create a job, that's a last resort measure.

The only thing that creates jobs are... Consumers and consumer demand!

I'd expect the economy selling stuff to the masses to struggle as the masses are deprived of more and more money! (Tax)

I was always sceptical about trickle down economics when I was younger, I think the facts show it's been an abject failure!

I studied economics at uni - and that made no sense

You miss the point that tax has fallen across all levels and not just the top

Furthermore reduction in tax has left to an entrepreneurial market echo key driving jobs and wealth

Your understanding of taxation and economic stimulus I a a fried to say is flawed

Good luck and try again next time"
.

Not to the same extent.

I think if you look at the average wage in 1980 compared direct and indirect taxation... And then repeated it today as many studies have, you'd actually see that real wage growth on the average wage has fallen... Ie your taxed more.

Now if you look at the top tax rate and did the same comparing direct tax and indirect...

There's has been cut by 50%

The exact same applies to high end companies, there paying less tax than 40 years ago most studies put it around 25% less tax, that's only for big companies mind, if you look at small to medium size business's , there's has increased.

The facts are that multi national companies and the very wealthy have had massive tax cuts during the last 40 years and it hasn't lead to any of what they promised.

Job creation, income growth, wage growth, economic growth.

If they had, then I'd be all for it!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Roll on another 10 years

Best leader since thatcher .

He's stepping down in four years!

Gutting - I'm sure Boris will be a good replacement .

I like Boris as a person, I think he's a charming witty guy, I just couldn't vote for him, he's far to rigid in his ideology of evidence based practises that work.

I like him on panel shows like hignfy..

What evidence shows trickle down economics doesn't work and please share where Boris has been ideologically tied to said economic theory.

It's kinda a thing you have to study rather than one paragraph on here can explain!.

I'll give you a quick idea of where to start.

The last 40 years have seen the top tax rate fall in practically every western economy.

In that 40 years we've not seen economic growth, wage growth, income growth or job creation as trickle down economics predicted!

In fact if cutting the highest earning tax rate in half or more, which is what they've done, created jobs... Well right now we'd be awash in jobs throughout the western world!

Any capitalist in the world will tell you.. The last thing they want to do, the very very last thing, is create a job, that's a last resort measure.

The only thing that creates jobs are... Consumers and consumer demand!

I'd expect the economy selling stuff to the masses to struggle as the masses are deprived of more and more money! (Tax)

I was always sceptical about trickle down economics when I was younger, I think the facts show it's been an abject failure!

I studied economics at uni - and that made no sense

You miss the point that tax has fallen across all levels and not just the top

Furthermore reduction in tax has left to an entrepreneurial market echo key driving jobs and wealth

Your understanding of taxation and economic stimulus I a a fried to say is flawed

Good luck and try again next time.

Not to the same extent.

Now if you look at the top tax rate and did the same comparing direct tax and indirect...

There's has been cut by 50%

The facts are that multi national companies and the very wealthy have had massive tax cuts during the last 40 years and it hasn't lead to any of what they promised.

Job creation, income growth, wage growth, economic growth.

If they had, then I'd be all for it!"

Is that way we're suffering from such massive unemployment figures?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Roll on another 10 years

Best leader since thatcher .

He's stepping down in four years!

Gutting - I'm sure Boris will be a good replacement .

I like Boris as a person, I think he's a charming witty guy, I just couldn't vote for him, he's far to rigid in his ideology of evidence based practises that work.

I like him on panel shows like hignfy..

What evidence shows trickle down economics doesn't work and please share where Boris has been ideologically tied to said economic theory.

It's kinda a thing you have to study rather than one paragraph on here can explain!.

I'll give you a quick idea of where to start.

The last 40 years have seen the top tax rate fall in practically every western economy.

In that 40 years we've not seen economic growth, wage growth, income growth or job creation as trickle down economics predicted!

In fact if cutting the highest earning tax rate in half or more, which is what they've done, created jobs... Well right now we'd be awash in jobs throughout the western world!

Any capitalist in the world will tell you.. The last thing they want to do, the very very last thing, is create a job, that's a last resort measure.

The only thing that creates jobs are... Consumers and consumer demand!

I'd expect the economy selling stuff to the masses to struggle as the masses are deprived of more and more money! (Tax)

I was always sceptical about trickle down economics when I was younger, I think the facts show it's been an abject failure!

So what? Please tell me how this affects me?!.

I don't think anything effects you except maybe class A drugs

WTF is that supposed to mean? "
.

Your rigid and dogmatic, you hold very little conversation skills and having any discussion with you would appear to be pointless!.

You fly from one wild point to another while being predictable in your responses, they are not very open and very judgemental

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

" The Labour Party, led by the man who is supposedly making them unelectable, INCREASED their share of the vote

Congratulations! You have successfully shown that Labour increased their share of the vote. The rest of what you've written is clutching at straws in search of a point.

Voter turnout at by-elections is ALWAYS lower than at a general election. As such, 7.5% increase of their share of the vote is all that matters here.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"Interesting character Cameron, given his background he more often speaks to Middle England far better than all of his opponents. He seems prone to the odd gaff, like announcing his retirement from his kitchen. But refusing to apologise last week in the Syria debate for suggesting that the Labour leader is a terrorist sympathiser showed a cool head under pressure and a refusal to retreat from the truth."

Cameron does not have a 'cool head under pressure'. He is a blustering chancer who occasionally gets lucky with his pre-prepared 'jokes', nothing more. And his comments about parliamentary colleagues were a disgrace to the House.

But when he lies to the HOC on such a regular basis, I guess such trifling matters as civilised political conduct are a dim and distant memory for him anyway.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'll vote for anyone who keeps me employed and my mortgage affordable. Cameron has a good track record for me. Why would i upset the apple cart?"

No answer.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I just can't see why anyone would vote Corbyn into power. As things stand I'm employed and my mortgage doesn't control my lifestyle. What more could i ask for?"

No answer.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Roll on another 10 years

Best leader since thatcher .

He's stepping down in four years!

Gutting - I'm sure Boris will be a good replacement .

I like Boris as a person, I think he's a charming witty guy, I just couldn't vote for him, he's far to rigid in his ideology of evidence based practises that work.

I like him on panel shows like hignfy..

What evidence shows trickle down economics doesn't work and please share where Boris has been ideologically tied to said economic theory.

It's kinda a thing you have to study rather than one paragraph on here can explain!.

I'll give you a quick idea of where to start.

The last 40 years have seen the top tax rate fall in practically every western economy.

In that 40 years we've not seen economic growth, wage growth, income growth or job creation as trickle down economics predicted!

In fact if cutting the highest earning tax rate in half or more, which is what they've done, created jobs... Well right now we'd be awash in jobs throughout the western world!

Any capitalist in the world will tell you.. The last thing they want to do, the very very last thing, is create a job, that's a last resort measure.

The only thing that creates jobs are... Consumers and consumer demand!

I'd expect the economy selling stuff to the masses to struggle as the masses are deprived of more and more money! (Tax)

I was always sceptical about trickle down economics when I was younger, I think the facts show it's been an abject failure!

I studied economics at uni - and that made no sense

You miss the point that tax has fallen across all levels and not just the top

Furthermore reduction in tax has left to an entrepreneurial market echo key driving jobs and wealth

Your understanding of taxation and economic stimulus I a a fried to say is flawed

Good luck and try again next time.

Not to the same extent.

Now if you look at the top tax rate and did the same comparing direct tax and indirect...

There's has been cut by 50%

The facts are that multi national companies and the very wealthy have had massive tax cuts during the last 40 years and it hasn't lead to any of what they promised.

Job creation, income growth, wage growth, economic growth.

If they had, then I'd be all for it!

Is that way we're suffering from such massive unemployment figures? "

No answer.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Roll on another 10 years

Best leader since thatcher .

He's stepping down in four years!

Gutting - I'm sure Boris will be a good replacement .

I like Boris as a person, I think he's a charming witty guy, I just couldn't vote for him, he's far to rigid in his ideology of evidence based practises that work.

I like him on panel shows like hignfy..

What evidence shows trickle down economics doesn't work and please share where Boris has been ideologically tied to said economic theory.

It's kinda a thing you have to study rather than one paragraph on here can explain!.

I'll give you a quick idea of where to start.

The last 40 years have seen the top tax rate fall in practically every western economy.

In that 40 years we've not seen economic growth, wage growth, income growth or job creation as trickle down economics predicted!

In fact if cutting the highest earning tax rate in half or more, which is what they've done, created jobs... Well right now we'd be awash in jobs throughout the western world!

Any capitalist in the world will tell you.. The last thing they want to do, the very very last thing, is create a job, that's a last resort measure.

The only thing that creates jobs are... Consumers and consumer demand!

I'd expect the economy selling stuff to the masses to struggle as the masses are deprived of more and more money! (Tax)

I was always sceptical about trickle down economics when I was younger, I think the facts show it's been an abject failure!

So what? Please tell me how this affects me?!"

No answer.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm just glad we have a Conservative government. Long may it continue

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Roll on another 10 years

Best leader since thatcher .

He's stepping down in four years!

Gutting - I'm sure Boris will be a good replacement .

I like Boris as a person, I think he's a charming witty guy, I just couldn't vote for him, he's far to rigid in his ideology of evidence based practises that work.

I like him on panel shows like hignfy..

What evidence shows trickle down economics doesn't work and please share where Boris has been ideologically tied to said economic theory.

It's kinda a thing you have to study rather than one paragraph on here can explain!.

I'll give you a quick idea of where to start.

The last 40 years have seen the top tax rate fall in practically every western economy.

In that 40 years we've not seen economic growth, wage growth, income growth or job creation as trickle down economics predicted!

In fact if cutting the highest earning tax rate in half or more, which is what they've done, created jobs... Well right now we'd be awash in jobs throughout the western world!

Any capitalist in the world will tell you.. The last thing they want to do, the very very last thing, is create a job, that's a last resort measure.

The only thing that creates jobs are... Consumers and consumer demand!

I'd expect the economy selling stuff to the masses to struggle as the masses are deprived of more and more money! (Tax)

I was always sceptical about trickle down economics when I was younger, I think the facts show it's been an abject failure!

So what? Please tell me how this affects me?!.

I don't think anything effects you except maybe class A drugs

WTF is that supposed to mean? .

Your rigid and dogmatic, you hold very little conversation skills and having any discussion with you would appear to be pointless!.

You fly from one wild point to another while being predictable in your responses, they are not very open and very judgemental "

So when you couldn't answer my questions you insulted me then belittled me. Congratulations.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm just glad we have a Conservative government. Long may it continue

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)