FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Climate Change ?
Climate Change ?
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Not by taxing us."
This is often asked as a loaded question-
'Do you believe in climate change?'
Of course it's been going on for billions of years before us.
The real question os more
'What effect is human activity having on the natural climate cycle?'
We can't predict the weather next week too well so climate in the middle of next century???
Also overlooking our ability to adapt. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Not by taxing us.
This is often asked as a loaded question-
'Do you believe in climate change?'
Of course it's been going on for billions of years before us.
The real question os more
'What effect is human activity having on the natural climate cycle?'
We can't predict the weather next week too well so climate in the middle of next century???
Also overlooking our ability to adapt."
So what should we do.......?  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
By all means reduce pollution and waste. Then get on with life.
There's so little beyond that we can actually do. We can't do much about varying energy input from the Sun, the Earth's eccentric orbit, Albedo.
It's a slow realisation by people in developed western countries that natural forces can't be controlled on demand.
A bit like the Tsunamis -
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
It's always gone in cycles, so nothing new, the earths climate warms and cools over the centuries, think the highest temperatures were in the 16th century so pre - industrial revolution. Lowest temps were of course Ice Age but historically winters much colder early centuries with many lakes and rivers including the Thames frozen over for months. Climate change / Global warming has become a big business concern with many fingers in the pie and self interest groups. Like politics, religion and war too many self interest groups involved for there to be any rational discussions or facts produced on the issue. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
And is it all necessarily bad? The Romans had vineyards up on Hadrian's wall so not like it's been stable since.
My personal belief is we are having a very small effect , say 2-3 % on the natural climate cycle.
We are powerless to influence it, esp in a controlled way.
Northern Scandinavia and the Baltic are still springing up from the weight of the last ice age a few CM a year. Nothing we can do about that either.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's always gone in cycles, so nothing new, the earths climate warms and cools over the centuries, think the highest temperatures were in the 16th century so pre - industrial revolution. Lowest temps were of course Ice Age but historically winters much colder early centuries with many lakes and rivers including the Thames frozen over for months. Climate change / Global warming has become a big business concern with many fingers in the pie and self interest groups. Like politics, religion and war too many self interest groups involved for there to be any rational discussions or facts produced on the issue. "
Ah yes - there's money in it forgot that |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I think there are cycles of warm and cold, the river Thames, for example has frozen over at least 23 times since 1300, the last time being in 1814. We will get more extremes of weather as the climate warms up. The melting ice will also have an effect of the warm Gulf Stream current that keeps the UK warmer than it should be for its position. If that goes, we will freeze. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
The worlds scientists are agonising over the possible effects of a trace gas in the atmosphere that has at various times in the planets history been more than it is today as well as less.
Meanwhile every day hundreds (if not thousands) of people die all over the world because of disagreements about whose God is the real God.
If scientists want to do some real good in the world, they need to leave climate science for a while and start to openly and loudly challenge all forms of religion and the core religious beliefs that result in the meaningless slaughter of millions of people every generation. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
no its evolution the planet has been thru change many times before...but nothing wrong with trying to be kinder to our planet .....its all about money/taxes/power thats why they want you to belive |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
two things ....
firstly the proposed tariffs to be added to our bills to facilitate the building of nuclear reactors by foreign investors will dwarf green taxes, but the money won't be going into the uk treasury
secondly, with the arrid regions of the world becoming larger, more and more people are migrating to where there is water. the movement of people at this present time is a trickle. we have to prepare ourselves for the time when they become a torrent. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *44bertCouple
over a year ago
Inverness |
"Not by taxing us.
This is often asked as a loaded question-
'Do you believe in climate change?'
Of course it's been going on for billions of years before us.
The real question os more
'What effect is human activity having on the natural climate cycle?'
We can't predict the weather next week too well so climate in the middle of next century???
Also overlooking our ability to adapt."
And there's the problem right there - people don't understand the issue at a basic level. Climate and weather are NOT the same thing. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
My view is climate change is obviously real.
It happens naturally anyway but with the amount we add to the atmosphere we are definitely speeding it up.
Can we do anything? no, i believe we've already past the point of no return.
So many people blame other countries but we are all to blame anyway. Governments trying to force fracking on us when thats just as bad, people trying to do better by getting low emissions cars but being lied to by the makers who add devices to it to hide the truth.
Governments saying we will do this and that by 2020, but cutting the amount they spend on it.
Everyone looks at the cars, and factories but forget to mention animals, the amount that goes into producing our food is one of the big things that never gets talked about.
You can do your recycling, less car journies but its not gonna help, far too many people not doing anything. Feel like its not gonna happen in their lifetime why bother. But then they have kids and seem to not give a shit about their future cuz their the ones who will have to deal with it even more. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Not by taxing us."
Why not? We live in a capitalist society. As such, taxation is a very effective method for prompting people to act in a manner that benefits society as a whole, rather than individuals. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I was just looking to see if anything had been posted recently and found this thread.
I've just watched Murnaghan interview Sir David Attenborough. Very very interesting.
Two comments, 1 - yes the earth climate goes in natural cycles BUT we are speeding the cycle up drastically. The temperatures are increasing at an alarming rate.
2 - if we could harness 1 five thousandth of the Suns daily output on earth we wouldn't need any other power. I find that incredible |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Not by taxing us.
Why not? We live in a capitalist society. As such, taxation is a very effective method for prompting people to act in a manner that benefits society as a whole, rather than individuals."
Do sea levels only rise in developing countries? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"The worlds scientists are agonising over the possible effects of a trace gas in the atmosphere that has at various times in the planets history been more than it is today as well as less.
Meanwhile every day hundreds (if not thousands) of people die all over the world because of disagreements about whose God is the real God.
If scientists want to do some real good in the world, they need to leave climate science for a while and start to openly and loudly challenge all forms of religion and the core religious beliefs that result in the meaningless slaughter of millions of people every generation."
Which scientists already do, of course.
However, there will never be a scientific experiment or theory ever devised that can disprove the existence of God.
And even if there were, religions would dispute its validity, just like they already do with sound scientific theory such as evolution.
So scientists should invest their energies into areas where their efforts will do the most good - such as making sure that the most serious threat to our species that exists, climate change, is always in the public consciousness. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Not by taxing us.
Why not? We live in a capitalist society. As such, taxation is a very effective method for prompting people to act in a manner that benefits society as a whole, rather than individuals.
Do sea levels only rise in developing countries? "
No. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Not by taxing us.
Why not? We live in a capitalist society. As such, taxation is a very effective method for prompting people to act in a manner that benefits society as a whole, rather than individuals.
Do sea levels only rise in developing countries?
No."
Just living near Portsmouth I've seen NO rise in levels. But communities on small Pacific islands are getting worried and need my cash. Somehow. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
the biggest problem is the governments.
They dont want us using green energy because its FREE, solar, wind, wave etc is free, lasts forever.
They cant make money from it, everything the government does is making money.
You have countries in the world now who are 100% renewable, yes they still use the cars but to provide their electric its all renewable.
Yet our government wants nuclear, fracking, both are bloody terrible ideas.
In America, if they use the latest tech in solar panels with using mirrors as well, One square mile in a desert area, thats enough energy to power the entire country.
Norway, Finland, Iceland and many others are all 100% renewable now. Norway still gets fossil fuels but exports it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Not by taxing us.
Why not? We live in a capitalist society. As such, taxation is a very effective method for prompting people to act in a manner that benefits society as a whole, rather than individuals.
Do sea levels only rise in developing countries?
No.
Just living near Portsmouth I've seen NO rise in levels. But communities on small Pacific islands are getting worried and need my cash. Somehow."
I don't think it's going to be something you can notice visibly by living there. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Not by taxing us.
Why not? We live in a capitalist society. As such, taxation is a very effective method for prompting people to act in a manner that benefits society as a whole, rather than individuals.
Do sea levels only rise in developing countries?
No.
Just living near Portsmouth I've seen NO rise in levels. But communities on small Pacific islands are getting worried and need my cash. Somehow."
Quite aside from the pointless nature of your anecdotal 'research', if you want to keep living your privileged Western lifestyle, it's worth remembering that rising sea levels across the world force developing nations to rely on richer countries more and more, for both aid and living space.
So pay up. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
It's a definite problem. In fact it's the top priority issue of our time.
But you'd hardly guess at this, as it's not given sufficient attention.
The earlier we move to address it, the less potentially catastrophic it may become.
It's a global issue so all countries should be made to reduce their damaging output - including countries like India which is resistant. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Not by taxing us.
Why not? We live in a capitalist society. As such, taxation is a very effective method for prompting people to act in a manner that benefits society as a whole, rather than individuals.
Do sea levels only rise in developing countries?
No.
Just living near Portsmouth I've seen NO rise in levels. But communities on small Pacific islands are getting worried and need my cash. Somehow.
I don't think it's going to be something you can notice visibly by living there."
No you wouldn't notice it, the average sea level change is 0.8mm per year, which means there is a bit of notice, and anyone likely to be affected by it in the next few hundred years probably already has issues when the sea has waves.
there is only one solution, and it isn't solar energy, it is the very unpopular policy of population control, so far the only country to try it is China, give it 50 years or so and there will be no choice short of a cull there has to be birth limits of 1 child per couple. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Not by taxing us.
Why not? We live in a capitalist society. As such, taxation is a very effective method for prompting people to act in a manner that benefits society as a whole, rather than individuals.
Do sea levels only rise in developing countries?
No.
Just living near Portsmouth I've seen NO rise in levels. But communities on small Pacific islands are getting worried and need my cash. Somehow."
You will see the cost of costal defences rise as valuable real estate is defended such as London due to more frequent & violent storm surges. Don't blame science for that  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The weather may be unpredictable but then again it's never had to defend itself from rampant humans infecting the planet. It dealt with the dinosaurs and they were far more economical! That last bits a joke. Derrrr |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Here are the facts...
Coal and oil are hydrocarbons (energy from the sun) captured and locked away by organic life over millions of years. We are releasing it back at an ever more increasing stupendous rates. That energy has to have an effect on our environment.
We need to stop adding energy to the environment or accept that it will change. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Relatively speaking, there seems to be a lack of will in solar power research & development from key players in the global economy, which kind of stands to reason.
If you were a large, rich country with massive riches in oil (& the global power that it also brings) under your feet, would you develop a renewable power source that will be readily available for as long as we are a planet, making that massive resource comparatively worthless?
perhaps there's plenty of research & development happening except the results aren't being put into practice.
There needs to be more will.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Relatively speaking, there seems to be a lack of will in solar power research & development from key players in the global economy, which kind of stands to reason.
If you were a large, rich country with massive riches in oil (& the global power that it also brings) under your feet, would you develop a renewable power source that will be readily available for as long as we are a planet, making that massive resource comparatively worthless?
perhaps there's plenty of research & development happening except the results aren't being put into practice.
There needs to be more will.
"
they are being put into practice in some countries. urugausy, costa rica, iceland, paraguay, lesotho, bhutan.
uruguay being the the most notable by using a broad spectrum of renewables and not relying on any one model. in the only ten years they have achieved well over 90% of thier power generation from renewables and now they are focusing on transport fuel too.
all achieved with no subsidies and no taxation on the technology.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Out of interest, how does the population of Uruguay compare to somewhere like oh i dunno, London?
i don't care ..... but it's direclty comparible to wales, scotland and ireland"
Oh here it is. The population of Uruguay in 2013 was around 3.3 million. The population of Greater London, in 2014 was 8.5 million. Population of the UK 64.5 million...now that's a lot of solar panels. I guess with a population density of just over 18 people per km2 the uruguayans have the space for them, compared to the UK's figure of 255 per km2. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Out of interest, how does the population of Uruguay compare to somewhere like oh i dunno, London?
i don't care ..... but it's direclty comparible to wales, scotland and ireland
Oh here it is. The population of Uruguay in 2013 was around 3.3 million. The population of Greater London, in 2014 was 8.5 million. Population of the UK 64.5 million...now that's a lot of solar panels. I guess with a population density of just over 18 people per km2 the uruguayans have the space for them, compared to the UK's figure of 255 per km2."
Even Wales with a population of only around 3 million has a population density of 148km2, too much rain for solar, not enough space for wind turbines. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Out of interest, how does the population of Uruguay compare to somewhere like oh i dunno, London?
i don't care ..... but it's direclty comparible to wales, scotland and ireland
Oh here it is. The population of Uruguay in 2013 was around 3.3 million. The population of Greater London, in 2014 was 8.5 million. Population of the UK 64.5 million...now that's a lot of solar panels. I guess with a population density of just over 18 people per km2 the uruguayans have the space for them, compared to the UK's figure of 255 per km2."
london? .... you confuse me with someone who gives a fuck (now where have i heard that before?) about london. i passed giving a fuck about london or the people who live there years ago. I don't live there so why should I? I don't live in england either, same goes. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Out of interest, how does the population of Uruguay compare to somewhere like oh i dunno, London?
i don't care ..... but it's direclty comparible to wales, scotland and ireland
Oh here it is. The population of Uruguay in 2013 was around 3.3 million. The population of Greater London, in 2014 was 8.5 million. Population of the UK 64.5 million...now that's a lot of solar panels. I guess with a population density of just over 18 people per km2 the uruguayans have the space for them, compared to the UK's figure of 255 per km2.
london? .... you confuse me with someone who gives a fuck (now where have i heard that before?) about london. i passed giving a fuck about london or the people who live there years ago. I don't live there so why should I? I don't live in england either, same goes."
Sorry, i mistook you for someone who could debate. You win because you said a swear.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Out of interest, how does the population of Uruguay compare to somewhere like oh i dunno, London?
i don't care ..... but it's direclty comparible to wales, scotland and ireland
Oh here it is. The population of Uruguay in 2013 was around 3.3 million. The population of Greater London, in 2014 was 8.5 million. Population of the UK 64.5 million...now that's a lot of solar panels. I guess with a population density of just over 18 people per km2 the uruguayans have the space for them, compared to the UK's figure of 255 per km2.
london? .... you confuse me with someone who gives a fuck (now where have i heard that before?) about london. i passed giving a fuck about london or the people who live there years ago. I don't live there so why should I? I don't live in england either, same goes.
Sorry, i mistook you for someone who could debate. You win because you said a swear. "
 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been said...
When the Thames used to freeze over it was a lot wider, shallower and had a slower flow... This makes a big difference, so it's not really comparable with today's weather... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been said...
When the Thames used to freeze over it was a lot wider, shallower and had a slower flow... This makes a big difference, so it's not really comparable with today's weather..."
Or to today's Thames manmade geography. After all its now walled in and dredged, increasing depth and water velocity. So the weather conditions could be exactly the same as they were when it used to freeze and we wouldn't know. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been said...
When the Thames used to freeze over it was a lot wider, shallower and had a slower flow... This makes a big difference, so it's not really comparable with today's weather...
Or to today's Thames manmade geography. After all its now walled in and dredged, increasing depth and water velocity. So the weather conditions could be exactly the same as they were when it used to freeze and we wouldn't know."
Sorry, that's what I was trying to say. You can't use the Thames to compare today's weather with historical weather... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Not by taxing us."
I have to agree with this, how on Earth is making us pay going to resolve the issue ?
Far to little way far to late now, what is going to happen will already be underway, all we can do now is slow the issue.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"how on Earth is making us pay going to resolve the issue ?"
that's the inherent problem with capitalism, it attempts to monetarise absolutely everything. as mentioned, uruguay has achieved 95% of completely stable energy requirement through a broad range of renewable energy generation in just 10 years with no state subsidies and no implementation of taxes on the population. and their energy bills are far cheaper as a result which even if you're as sceptical as some on these threads (often just for the sake of being contrary), you wouldn't say no to lower fuel bills.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
