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Birds and bees
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Had call from ex wife about something that had happened with my son at school today.
Some lad in his class was asking the girls if they were virgins, these kids are 7-8.
Some of the parents have reported it to the head who thought it was amusing, me I'm fuming!
I know my son can't stay a child forever but to talk like this at 7 is shocking. When he asked me about it I just said they was talking about the virgin trains you know the ones we go and see nana on.
I didn't know what to say as I felt 7 was way too young for this. |
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not a parent myslef so you can tell me to feck off if you want but i think that if a child asks a question you should answer truthfully
sadly we are no longer in a society where children are children for long and by avoiding telling him the truth you may risk alientating him at schol when the ther parents do tell their kids what virgin means |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I know what you mean and I guess I'm trying to keep him innocent. I just felt 7 was too young and the schools approach was terrble"
im with you the headmistress shouldnt have found it amusing .children should be children ..i had the most amazing christmas this year because my 10 year old grand daughter still truly believes in father christmas .the look on her face when she opened the present she had asked for was priceless and it was a baby doll not some electronic gadget .i know she is going to grow up but not before she is ready . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I know what you mean and I guess I'm trying to keep him innocent. I just felt 7 was too young and the schools approach was terrble"
Yeah .... complain about the school ..... The very least they could have done was dragged all the kids into the hall ....shown them an unruptured hymen..... demonstrated de flowering of a virgin .... and proved that the all of the kids in school ARE indeed Virgins.
Children take their language into school from HOME.
Is the word VIRGIN a dirty word ? Do they learn about the VIRGIN mary or not ? Do they hear the word VIRGIN often on telly ...... i'd say yes.
If the school had shown the kids a porn movie to show how people lose their virginity then okay complain.....
A child used an ordinary every day word.
No one was killed. |
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Have to ask what you expected the school to do about it?
I should imagine that they will be speaking to the parent/s of the other child, but that's about as far as they can reasonably be expected to act....surely? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Have to ask what you expected the school to do about it?
I should imagine that they will be speaking to the parent/s of the other child, but that's about as far as they can reasonably be expected to act....surely?"
I know what you mean i guess I was put back
by it. But what can I do, shouting the odds won't help but I'm not happy as one of the posters said hers believe in father Xmas and so does mine |
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I have 4 kids, two of each, all grown up and flown the nest now. As a child I remember being told things that I saw as lies when I found out the truth while having no comprehension of the idea that my elders were trying to protect me. Just made me feel cheated and stupid.
If any of my kids asked anything about anything, including sex at any age I would just try and explain it truthfully.
Sorry but its the parents complaining about it that I think is out of order. As much as you might want to protect your children in the real world its not possible, in the longer _iew it just creates more shocks for them as they get older. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Have to ask what you expected the school to do about it?
I should imagine that they will be speaking to the parent/s of the other child, but that's about as far as they can reasonably be expected to act....surely?
I know what you mean i guess I was put back
by it. But what can I do, shouting the odds won't help but I'm not happy as one of the posters said hers believe in father Xmas and so does mine"
ffs ..... this made me squishy in a really motherly way ......
It is possible to say the word VIRGIN and still believe in Father Christmas AND when the day comes that he either realises that you have lied to him for years OR you decide to tell him that you have lied to him for years that's when he will be ripped apart and probably dive headlong into inappropriate sexual relationships but the fact that some kid in his class said the word virgin when he didn't even have a clue what it was wont be anywhere in his emotional make up at all.
Funny things parents .....  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"My last comment.... the other child is a child too ...... NOT a demon. "
I don't think he is either, what he's learnt is from other people and tv I know that and I'd never blame the child |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I know what you mean but this other boy was saying other sexual stuff to the girls, I'm not mothering him, just protecting him"
you can't mother him  It's understandable you are alarmed and want to act. It's not aided by the fact that you got the information second hand. Quite often if it's someone exciteable or needy telling the story they can embellish the facts. Best you speak directly to the school. Ask for an appointment with the head and simply ask for the facts. Make your decision from there. |
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Don't get me wrong, I am not questioning your wish to retain your sons innocence, it's your unreasonable expectations of the school's actions....They have to juggle situations like this all the time, at the end of the day no-one was hurt.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I know and your both right I guess I've not had the situation before, I guess when he's at school he's under there guidance and I felt let down I guess |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Re educating kids is difficult at any age.
I know i found the subject of even getting him to pee like fellas do standing up and not sitting down was funny.
Had to ask my brothers and dad to take him to the loos instead of him comming into the ladies with me. 
It reminds me of the joke about the kid asking his dad where he come from.... dad looked shocked but thought...right ok..
Sat him down and told him the facts of life.
He then asked son why he wanted to know and son said...oh well jonny comes from essex , so i wanted to know where i came from
Rock and hard place comes to mind with kids .  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I know it is difficult for the facts of life to be explained to a child of 7 but telling him they were talking about train may make it worse for him, as if the kids bring up the subject at school again tomorrow and other parents may have told their kids, when he starts saying that it means the railway Virgin, he is going to get ridiculed |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I'm taking him to school tomorrow so will talk to him about it I wasn't thinking straight I guess I didn't know what to say. I just don't want to make the mistakes my dad did. He was a git who beat me and my sis black and blue he was a bully and I said I'd never be like him I guess that's why I've been like I have with him |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Don't talk to him unless HE brings it up ... xxxxxxxxxxx
We all learn what is good from what is bad. Maybe your dad will have made you a good dad after all xx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm taking him to school tomorrow so will talk to him about it I wasn't thinking straight I guess I didn't know what to say. I just don't want to make the mistakes my dad did. He was a git who beat me and my sis black and blue he was a bully and I said I'd never be like him I guess that's why I've been like I have with him"
Its not a crime to love and want to protect your children.
Reckon your doing a fine job so dont beat yourself up about it.
No one said it was easy . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"... when he starts saying that it means the railway Virgin, he is going to get ridiculed"
You cant train them all the time... (Sorry)
I was always open and honest with the stepkids... They knew it and trusted me enough to ask my advice on serious matters as they grew older.... Even when they didnt like my answers, they knew I was not kidding around...
IMHO lying to kids doesnt help them.
*steps down from soapbox* |
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The question is, do they know what a virgin is and why were they asking?
There is always an age appropriate way to answer any question a child has about sex.To me the real problem is someone at home has been introduced to age inappropiate language and slut shaming,look to the parents,not the school. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"... when he starts saying that it means the railway Virgin, he is going to get ridiculed
You cant train them all the time... (Sorry)
I was always open and honest with the stepkids... They knew it and trusted me enough to ask my advice on serious matters as they grew older.... Even when they didnt like my answers, they knew I was not kidding around...
IMHO lying to kids doesnt help them.
*steps down from soapbox*"
But we all do it or HAVE done it....
Re lies. be it little ones.
santa, the tooth fairy, the bogeyman, etc  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think Granny was right in saying, see if he mentions it again, in the meantime, why don't you look on the web at sites to advise you the best way to explain to very young children, forearmed is forewarned as they say |
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I would say there was a real difference between lies and make believe.Santa is a wonderful childhood fantasy.refusing to tell a chilsd the facts of life is a lie.
What is the problem with saying a virgin is simply someone who has not has sex? |
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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago
glasgow |
children are only as innocent,as their least innocent mate.you can't preserve
their innocence,just explain,each bit
as they lose it.
when they don't mention it,thats when
they have lost there innocence. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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When I was 13 I started my periods. I thought I was dying and went crying to my mum. She handed me a pack of Dr White's and said "now you can't sleep with boys!" That was it.
I was absolutely scared of boys. We knew never to broach our parents about sexual issues as that was for "big people!"
I vowed if I had children they would never be afraid to ask me anything. When the time came I answered their questions truthfully, simply and honestly. When they had sex education at school they came home and asked me to fill in what they didn't understand. I took pains to tell them about periods.
When they arrived they were alarmed but prepared as you can be. My daughters have grown up happy and confident.
OP you also have to realise this time of year we're bombarded with tales of the virgin birth. This young boy has probably asked his parents what it meant and they have answered in an age appropriate manner. His innocent mind has made him ask his classmate if they are virgins not fully understanding.
My youngest is 19 and away at uni in Derby. She's home for Christmas. She says every night her dad phones her at 10 and tells her it's time for bed lol! She told her dad a boy from uni asked her out and she said no. I said good, you're far too young for boys!
She giggled and said that's what dad said which is unfair as you didn't say that to my sisters! She's right, but she's our baby, never had a boyfriend and that's fine with us (says her mum who got married at 20). 
There's nothing wrong in trying to protect your son's innocents but be honest when he asks you questions. You want to be the first person he turns to, he won't if you're not honest!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Some of the parents have reported it to the head who thought it was amusing, me I'm fuming!
I totaly agree with you,i would have been fuming as well. I would have gone as far as reporting the head to the school governors/head of the local education in your area because if they think this sort of language is acceptable in a school with children of that age then what other things are acceptable? For example....in the school play ground "well mummy and daddy do it so its ok" |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some of the parents have reported it to the head who thought it was amusing, me I'm fuming!
I totaly agree with you,i would have been fuming as well. I would have gone as far as reporting the head to the school governors/head of the local education in your area because if they think this sort of language is acceptable in a school with children of that age then what other things are acceptable? For example....in the school play ground "well mummy and daddy do it so its ok""
Sadly, because we're swingers, some of us become jaded and see sex in everything and can over react!
As I said, think about the time of year, baby Jesus, the VIRGIN Mary...doesn't mean little Tommy's mummy and daddy mixed up the DVDs and instead of Bill and Ben the Flowerpot Men they put in Bill and Ben Deflowering Jen! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Virgin Mary has been in carols and Christmas nativity plays and may still be on childrens lips.
They are after all still hyped from Christmas, and if they believe in Santa then it stands to reason they will believe in Virgin Mary and baby Jesus too.
You need to find out in what context the word was used. I believe if a child asks the question then they need an honest answer. Of course it would be an age appropriate answer, without going into too much detail just yet. Keep it simple. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Snap Sassy, similar train of thought here also. (no pun intended) "
Lol! Exactly Laine, my initial response to the OP was aaah, the Nativity. But I was in a minority of one til your post! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some of the parents have reported it to the head who thought it was amusing, me I'm fuming!
I totaly agree with you,i would have been fuming as well. I would have gone as far as reporting the head to the school governors/head of the local education in your area because if they think this sort of language is acceptable in a school with children of that age then what other things are acceptable? For example....in the school play ground "well mummy and daddy do it so its ok"
Sadly, because we're swingers, some of us become jaded and see sex in everything and can over react!
As I said, think about the time of year, baby Jesus, the VIRGIN Mary...doesn't mean little Tommy's mummy and daddy mixed up the DVDs and instead of Bill and Ben the Flowerpot Men they put in Bill and Ben Deflowering Jen! "
wouldt say it was an over reaction sassy just trying to keep children as innoncents.there plenty of time for them to worry about sex and still being a virgin ect |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I have been answering my daughters questions about sex and life in a language she can understand since she was 6 years old
My parents did the same
In my school days a long time ago now this stuff used ta come up all the time
It happens it always has and always will
And in those days it wasn't even in the news as much as it is today
xx |
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I was 13 when my Dad took me aside to tell me about the birds and the bees. My Dad is useless at these things and the upshot was the next day I was caught trying to fuck a bee in the park.
It's OK to understand (on a very basic level) what a virgin is and still allow them to believe in Santa/Easter Bunny/Tooth Fairy/Sober Post Men.
If it stops one more 13 year old boy trying to fuck a bee then it is a good thing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have been answering my daughters questions about sex and life in a language she can understand since she was 6 years old
My parents did the same
In my school days a long time ago now this stuff used ta come up all the time
It happens it always has and always will
And in those days it wasn't even in the news as much as it is today
xx"
im the same, ive always tried to be open and honest with my kids, even on subject they shouldnt really know about, but the fact is wether they should know or not if they have over heard other klds talking about stuff they do know and id sooner them know the correct answer from me rather than a child version from the school playground |
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My lads nearly 5 now and the subject hasn't really come up beyond the usual 'from mummy's tummy' answer at the moment, but I think answering their questions as truthfully as you can is the best option.
Of course the questions probably never arrive at a good time, but thats life!
If you don't tell them then they will only get their (mis-)information from somewhere else.  |
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"Some of the parents have reported it to the head who thought it was amusing, me I'm fuming!
I totaly agree with you,i would have been fuming as well. I would have gone as far as reporting the head to the school governors/head of the local education in your area because if they think this sort of language is acceptable in a school with children of that age then what other things are acceptable? For example....in the school play ground "well mummy and daddy do it so its ok""
'This sort of language'?
It's the word virgin for god's sake....
The children of Primary School age have been hearing about the Virgin Mary for weeks leading up to Christmas....get a grip. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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thing is the kids who said it probably over heard older brother or sister and have no ides at all what the meaning of the word is
personally i think the head should have got the kids in question and just had a word asking if they knew what it ment
kids in playgrounds will always talking about stuff we as adults think they shouldnt know, you'll never stop that
just educating them is whats needed
asking where they heard it and what it means, chances are it came from a older child |
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"I was 13 when my Dad took me aside to tell me about the birds and the bees. My Dad is useless at these things and the upshot was the next day I was caught trying to fuck a bee in the park.
It's OK to understand (on a very basic level) what a virgin is and still allow them to believe in Santa/Easter Bunny/Tooth Fairy/Sober Post Men.
If it stops one more 13 year old boy trying to fuck a bee then it is a good thing."
...and people wonder why the bees are all clearing off! |
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By *edhotminxWoman
over a year ago
Turn left at the Singing Ringing Tree |
I would suspect that the child has heard the word, be it in the context of the Virgin Mary or someone being called a virgin, and is trying the word out for size. All children do so, especially when they think the word might be a naughty one.
I have always answered my kids questions truthfully, especially about sex, as there are far too many half-truths and misconceptions amongst the teenagers as it is.
Do you remember those helpful agony aunt pages that answered questions like ...... if I sit on a park bench after a man has sat on it, will I get pregnant?
lol, when I was a teenager I thought oral sex was talking dirty!
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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anyway I spoke to the head today after dropping him off this morning and I know now the story not pleasant either and feel very upset for the little lad. He had been removed from his home a few months ago and placed with foster parents,the reason him and his 10 year old brother had been known to watch porn with the parents who encouraged it and thought it was very funny.
The head said they laughed it off as not to make an issue of it as at the end of the day its not this lads fault but what his parents had exposed him to. |
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The school Head needs reporting to the LEA for disclosing personal details of a child to a stranger.
I am flabbergasted to understand why a Head teacher would put his/her career in jeapardy by disclosing such information to you. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The school Head needs reporting to the LEA for disclosing personal details of a child to a stranger.
I am flabbergasted to understand why a Head teacher would put his/her career in jeapardy by disclosing such information to you."
Whats the LEA Jane?
I guess she was telling parents as enough people had complained,I never thought of that to be honest. |
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Local Education Authority....
It will only take one single parent to lodge a complaint and the Head teacher would be in hot water.
Telling such personal details about a Seven year old childs history, particularly sexual, to total strangers is beyond belief.....to be honest I am sceptical. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I think and this is my take on it that over 15 parents complained because the teacher had done nothing about it to begin with and did not fuse the situation,thats why they and me went to the head. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Local Education Authority....
It will only take one single parent to lodge a complaint and the Head teacher would be in hot water.
Telling such personal details about a Seven year old childs history, particularly sexual, to total strangers is beyond belief.....to be honest I am sceptical."
I certainly would not want to get anyone into hot water,as far as I am concerned the matter is sorted and as been dropped. |
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So see if I understand this?.....The Head teacher, on the strength of a Seven year old using the owrd 'Virgin', chose to disclose the personal (sexual) history of a child that is currently in foster care to total strangers?
I think I had better leave this discussion now as it frankly doesn't ring true to me....so in the words of Dragon's Den.....I'm out. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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It was not just about the virgin comment but other sexual comments that were made.
as I said this matter as been resolved now so thanks for your advice especially granny,your a star |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Im with Jane on this one. I do find it hard to believe that a Headteacher would disclose confidential information to parents, even if the whole school complained.
regarding the other points you made though, kids do hear all sorts in the playground and whilst it is upsetting for parents, probably more than the kids, you have to accept it will happen. Young children will repeat words they've heard from brothers or sisters, and they are inquisitive over genitals etc. If sexually inappropriate behaviour was identified then this would be reported via the normal channels of the social care system (but not discussed with parents).
We all want our children to remain innocent but the best way is to not make too big a deal out of it, not to react too much, if kids see a reaction then they will be even more inquisitive, if you answer the question in a age appropriate way, they will accept it and probably forget it.
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"Had call from ex wife about something that had happened with my son at school today.
Some lad in his class was asking the girls if they were virgins, these kids are 7-8.
Some of the parents have reported it to the head who thought it was amusing, me I'm fuming!
I know my son can't stay a child forever but to talk like this at 7 is shocking. When he asked me about it I just said they was talking about the virgin trains you know the ones we go and see nana on.
I didn't know what to say as I felt 7 was way too young for this."
Won't your son look a right cock when his mates get told the truth by their parents.
You don't have to go into graphic detail or even adult detail... but your 7 year old deserves a 7 year olds version of the truth.
How else do children learn... or would you like your son to learn the facts of life from the school yard myth factory? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some of the parents have reported it to the head who thought it was amusing, me I'm fuming!
I totaly agree with you,i would have been fuming as well. I would have gone as far as reporting the head to the school governors/head of the local education in your area because if they think this sort of language is acceptable in a school with children of that age then what other things are acceptable? For example....in the school play ground "well mummy and daddy do it so its ok""
1. NO one knows if the head found it amusing or not .... he wasn't there. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some of the parents have reported it to the head who thought it was amusing, me I'm fuming!
I totaly agree with you,i would have been fuming as well. I would have gone as far as reporting the head to the school governors/head of the local education in your area because if they think this sort of language is acceptable in a school with children of that age then what other things are acceptable? For example....in the school play ground "well mummy and daddy do it so its ok""
Are you implying THAT a child who see their parent having sex, drinking, smoking and swearing will then do it in school and YOU believe the school will say it's okay and you will hold the school responsible ?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There are some fantastic age appropriate books that you can get that could help you if he asks. Dont lie to him if he asks questions as it causes confusion.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"There are some fantastic age appropriate books that you can get that could help you if he asks. Dont lie to him if he asks questions as it causes confusion.
"
I won't and to be honest he's not mentioned it since but if he does I will do my best |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"anyway I spoke to the head today after dropping him off this morning and I know now the story not pleasant either and feel very upset for the little lad. He had been removed from his home a few months ago and placed with foster parents,the reason him and his 10 year old brother had been known to watch porn with the parents who encouraged it and thought it was very funny.
The head said they laughed it off as not to make an issue of it as at the end of the day its not this lads fault but what his parents had exposed him to."
Wow..... IF and only IF those words were said to you by the head of the school. NOT if it's tittle tattle. Not if it's second hand but IF the head actually said those words to YOU. Report it now.
I can't see a head doing this in today's climate. If it's true -you have to report it. Or it's your turn next to have your private business spread to other parents.
Im shaking my head in disbelief. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm sorry I find it nigh on impossible to believe a Head Teacher would disclose any information, let alone information of a sexual nature to a stranger regarding a seven year old child!
I recall a dinner lady being sacked for telling parents the name of the children who beat up their daughter as the Head wouldn't give the information.
Can't see a Head Teacher blabbing to 15 sets of parents! |
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"There are some fantastic age appropriate books that you can get that could help you if he asks. Dont lie to him if he asks questions as it causes confusion.
"
Or they think their parents are planks for not knowing. |
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By *iewMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Angus & Findhorn |
"I recall a dinner lady being sacked for telling parents the name of the children who beat up their daughter as the Head wouldn't give the information.
Can't see a Head Teacher blabbing to 15 sets of parents! "
The dinner lady won her unfair dismissal appeal today xx
altho agree... they wouldnt say. |
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"anyway I spoke to the head today after dropping him off this morning and I know now the story not pleasant either and feel very upset for the little lad. He had been removed from his home a few months ago and placed with foster parents,the reason him and his 10 year old brother had been known to watch porn with the parents who encouraged it and thought it was very funny.
The head said they laughed it off as not to make an issue of it as at the end of the day its not this lads fault but what his parents had exposed him to.
Wow..... IF and only IF those words were said to you by the head of the school. NOT if it's tittle tattle. Not if it's second hand but IF the head actually said those words to YOU. Report it now.
I can't see a head doing this in today's climate. If it's true -you have to report it. Or it's your turn next to have your private business spread to other parents.
Im shaking my head in disbelief. "
If the kid has been watching porn 'virgin' is the last word I'd expect him to be asking girls about. "Lick my hot cum bitch ... yeah your ass is tight" may be, but 'virgin' |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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To the OP i feel the same as you...i have an 8 yr old....you cant help but feel protective and you will have your own sets of whats right and wrong thats precious to you and your family....you do what you feel is right....
All you can do is make sure you explain the true and real meaning of things to your kids. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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To the OP i feel the same as you...i have an 8 yr old....you cant help but feel protective and you will have your own sets of whats right and wrong thats precious to you and your family....you do what you feel is right....
All you can do is make sure you explain the true and real meaning of things to your kids. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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ha ha what's all the fuss, as soon as mine were old enough to follow books I showed them the pics of the baby forming and then showed them the pics of how the baby is made and showed them that his is common to all the creations of the earth and that all creatures take responsiblity for the raising of any babies produced in this way.
Wasn't till they were in their teens though that we looked at contraception and the temptations of casual sex and casual drug use.
it's just nature. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"anyway I spoke to the head today after dropping him off this morning and I know now the story not pleasant either and feel very upset for the little lad. He had been removed from his home a few months ago and placed with foster parents,the reason him and his 10 year old brother had been known to watch porn with the parents who encouraged it and thought it was very funny.
The head said they laughed it off as not to make an issue of it as at the end of the day its not this lads fault but what his parents had exposed him to.
Wow..... IF and only IF those words were said to you by the head of the school. NOT if it's tittle tattle. Not if it's second hand but IF the head actually said those words to YOU. Report it now.
I can't see a head doing this in today's climate. If it's true -you have to report it. Or it's your turn next to have your private business spread to other parents.
Im shaking my head in disbelief. "
If thats true then the head has broken a major law of child protection. I would be calling ofsted about this breach of confidence.
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