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Woman in male prison
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"I'm in two minds over this. Surely she shouldn't have committed the assault crime in the first place. "Exactly. | |||
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"Do the crime do the time regardless of gender "i dont disagree at all, but surely you would be imprisoned according to your gender...in this case,female...can't see the confusion really.. | |||
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"I'm in two minds over this. Surely she shouldn't have committed the assault crime in the first place.
Exactly."not the point...there are male prisons and female prisons..thats the structure transgender women should go to a female prison. simplez. like you have to go pee, but i dont make you have to use the urinal, in the mens toilets...when there's women's toilets, built too... | |||
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"Do the crime do the time regardless of gender
i dont disagree at all, but surely you would be imprisoned according to your gender...in this case,female...can't see the confusion really.."Wouldn't it be the criminals responsibility to ensure they are legally recognised as the gender they wish to identify as? She was careless considering it's been years since her transition - especially knowing her case was coming up. | |||
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"Do the crime do the time regardless of gender
i dont disagree at all, but surely you would be imprisoned according to your gender...in this case,female...can't see the confusion really.."Im not sure of the full story but i think they are still classing her as a male for whatever reason | |||
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"Do you have a link for it please x" type in tara hudson petiton and it comes up | |||
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"I am a bit confused here. Why does she need a passport to be sent to prison? Otherwise agree; she should be in a female prison Other silly comments will follow like she shouldn't have carried out the assault, etc. I don't think she should have but I doubt any other woman on this site would want to be sent to a male prison, if they had" Cos she still legally identifies as a man and hasn't taken the time to change that. If she had, this wouldn't be an issue. | |||
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"I'm in two minds over this. Surely she shouldn't have committed the assault crime in the first place.
Exactly.
not the point...there are male prisons and female prisons..thats the structure
transgender women should go to a female prison. simplez.
like you have to go pee, but i dont make you have to use the urinal, in the mens toilets...when there's women's toilets, built too..."Good point, very well stated | |||
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"Do you have a link for it please xtype in tara hudson petiton and it comes up " Thanks. Just did | |||
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"I am a bit confused here. Why does she need a passport to be sent to prison? Otherwise agree; she should be in a female prison Other silly comments will follow like she shouldn't have carried out the assault, etc. I don't think she should have but I doubt any other woman on this site would want to be sent to a male prison, if they had Cos she still legally identifies as a man and hasn't taken the time to change that. If she had, this wouldn't be an issue. " I agree with this. I have not come across this question before, but it is something covered by guidance. "Within NOMS there is a provision for transgender inmates, who do not have a Transgender Certificate, to still be housed within the prison estate, under the gender they live if they are likely to meet the criteria required for a Transgender Certificate." so here it appears to be a case of the guidance not being followed. | |||
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"I am a bit confused here. Why does she need a passport to be sent to prison? Otherwise agree; she should be in a female prison Other silly comments will follow like she shouldn't have carried out the assault, etc. I don't think she should have but I doubt any other woman on this site would want to be sent to a male prison, if they had Cos she still legally identifies as a man and hasn't taken the time to change that. If she had, this wouldn't be an issue. " So because she did not fill out a form, we can all sleep easy knowing that she could / would be raped in an all-male prision Hope you've completed all your forms, just in case | |||
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"I am a bit confused here. Why does she need a passport to be sent to prison? Otherwise agree; she should be in a female prison Other silly comments will follow like she shouldn't have carried out the assault, etc. I don't think she should have but I doubt any other woman on this site would want to be sent to a male prison, if they had Cos she still legally identifies as a man and hasn't taken the time to change that. If she had, this wouldn't be an issue. So because she did not fill out a form, we can all sleep easy knowing that she could / would be raped in an all-male prision Hope you've completed all your forms, just in case" I don't understand why someone who is trans wouldn't have prepared fully and left it so late - cases take months to go to court, and even longer for sentencing. The courts can only follow which gender she identifies as legally to protect other inmates. It was solely her responsibility, it's not the courts fault. | |||
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"Tara is 26 and has lived her adult life as a woman. She has has the surgery required to physically make her a woman. She hadnt changed her paperwork for whatever reason and didn't expect a custodial sentence as it was her first offence. I don't condone what she's done. It obviously merits being sent to prison. Google her. We are not talking Herman Munster in a dress. She will be in very real danger in a prison with recent reports saying violence there is increasing. " Ok him now being a her probably wouldnt have to worry so much about the violence in there its that big matter of how many men want something else. Ok im now seeing why she should be in diff prison  | |||
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"I am a bit confused here. Why does she need a passport to be sent to prison? Otherwise agree; she should be in a female prison Other silly comments will follow like she shouldn't have carried out the assault, etc. I don't think she should have but I doubt any other woman on this site would want to be sent to a male prison, if they had Cos she still legally identifies as a man and hasn't taken the time to change that. If she had, this wouldn't be an issue. So because she did not fill out a form, we can all sleep easy knowing that she could / would be raped in an all-male prision Hope you've completed all your forms, just in case I don't understand why someone who is trans wouldn't have prepared fully and left it so late - cases take months to go to court, and even longer for sentencing. The courts can only follow which gender she identifies as legally to protect other inmates. It was solely her responsibility, it's not the courts fault. " I don't know the ins and outs of the forms or passports required to go to prison or to get transgender certificates But I can make an intelligent guess and say that this woman does or does not pose any more or less threat than any other female does to any female prisoner in a female prison. And that she will be in great danger in a male prisoner This isn't exactly nuclear physics | |||
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"I am a bit confused here. Why does she need a passport to be sent to prison? Otherwise agree; she should be in a female prison Other silly comments will follow like she shouldn't have carried out the assault, etc. I don't think she should have but I doubt any other woman on this site would want to be sent to a male prison, if they had Cos she still legally identifies as a man and hasn't taken the time to change that. If she had, this wouldn't be an issue. So because she did not fill out a form, we can all sleep easy knowing that she could / would be raped in an all-male prision Hope you've completed all your forms, just in case I don't understand why someone who is trans wouldn't have prepared fully and left it so late - cases take months to go to court, and even longer for sentencing. The courts can only follow which gender she identifies as legally to protect other inmates. It was solely her responsibility, it's not the courts fault. I don't know the ins and outs of the forms or passports required to go to prison or to get transgender certificates But I can make an intelligent guess and say that this woman does or does not pose any more or less threat than any other female does to any female prisoner in a female prison. And that she will be in great danger in a male prisoner This isn't exactly nuclear physics" You're ignoring the fact that her advocate and litigator will have warned her of custodial sentences, as well as the judge and police investigating. She is not the first transgender criminal, so I just fail to see why she didn't prepare fully. This is very much her own responsibility and she's put herself at risk through being careless. | |||
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"Tara is 26 and has lived her adult life as a woman. She has has the surgery required to physically make her a woman. She hadnt changed her paperwork for whatever reason and didn't expect a custodial sentence as it was her first offence. I don't condone what she's done. It obviously merits being sent to prison. Google her. We are not talking Herman Munster in a dress. She will be in very real danger in a prison with recent reports saying violence there is increasing. " Even if she did resemble Herman Munster, she'd still be in danger of rape in prison. Men are in danger of rape in prison too. If she were really ugly - would there still be a petition I wonder. | |||
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"I am a bit confused here. Why does she need a passport to be sent to prison? Otherwise agree; she should be in a female prison Other silly comments will follow like she shouldn't have carried out the assault, etc. I don't think she should have but I doubt any other woman on this site would want to be sent to a male prison, if they had Cos she still legally identifies as a man and hasn't taken the time to change that. If she had, this wouldn't be an issue. So because she did not fill out a form, we can all sleep easy knowing that she could / would be raped in an all-male prision Hope you've completed all your forms, just in case I don't understand why someone who is trans wouldn't have prepared fully and left it so late - cases take months to go to court, and even longer for sentencing. The courts can only follow which gender she identifies as legally to protect other inmates. It was solely her responsibility, it's not the courts fault. I don't know the ins and outs of the forms or passports required to go to prison or to get transgender certificates But I can make an intelligent guess and say that this woman does or does not pose any more or less threat than any other female does to any female prisoner in a female prison. And that she will be in great danger in a male prisoner This isn't exactly nuclear physics You're ignoring the fact that her advocate and litigator will have warned her of custodial sentences, as well as the judge and police investigating. She is not the first transgender criminal, so I just fail to see why she didn't prepare fully. This is very much her own responsibility and she's put herself at risk through being careless. " I am sorry but I just do not understand Are you saying that we should expose her to a very real danger of rape because she was convicted of an assault and that she did not complete some form in time? If that is what you are saying then I hear you | |||
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" Are you saying that we should expose her to a very real danger of rape because she was convicted of an assault and that she did not complete some form in time? If that is what you are saying then I hear you " By this logic though no male should go to a male prison either due to the very real danger of rape | |||
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"Not filling in paperwork is a careless, stupid mistake to make especially if you know that you've committed a crime. However, she's someone's daughter/sister/friend and she has lived her entire adult life as a woman. She's had surgery, I know not whether her surgery is complete but as a fellow human with some compassion I have signed and shared her petition. Do the crime, do the time but even criminals deserve to be safe in custody. " But if she's lived her life as a woma b it's not a carless mistake it's an active choice. Every time she's filled out a form for years that requires it to be checked against ID she will have had to tick "male" not female on the gender choice section. | |||
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"Not filling in paperwork is a careless, stupid mistake to make especially if you know that you've committed a crime. However, she's someone's daughter/sister/friend and she has lived her entire adult life as a woman. She's had surgery, I know not whether her surgery is complete but as a fellow human with some compassion I have signed and shared her petition. Do the crime, do the time but even criminals deserve to be safe in custody. " 
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"Tara is 26 and has lived her adult life as a woman. She has has the surgery required to physically make her a woman. She hadnt changed her paperwork for whatever reason and didn't expect a custodial sentence as it was her first offence. I don't condone what she's done. It obviously merits being sent to prison. Google her. We are not talking Herman Munster in a dress. She will be in very real danger in a prison with recent reports saying violence there is increasing. Even if she did resemble Herman Munster, she'd still be in danger of rape in prison. Men are in danger of rape in prison too. If she were really ugly - would there still be a petition I wonder." I would hope so. | |||
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" Are you saying that we should expose her to a very real danger of rape because she was convicted of an assault and that she did not complete some form in time? If that is what you are saying then I hear you By this logic though no male should go to a male prison either due to the very real danger of rape " She is not male; she is of no danger to any other female prisoner in a female prison A male inmate in a female prison will pose a threat to female prisioners | |||
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" Are you saying that we should expose her to a very real danger of rape because she was convicted of an assault and that she did not complete some form in time? If that is what you are saying then I hear you By this logic though no male should go to a male prison either due to the very real danger of rape She is not male; she is of no danger to any other female prisoner in a female prison A male inmate in a female prison will pose a threat to female prisioners" Well that's a very nice non sequitur (completely ignoring sexual assult occurs in female prisons too though) but it bears no relation to what I said does it? | |||
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"I am a bit confused here. Why does she need a passport to be sent to prison? Otherwise agree; she should be in a female prison Other silly comments will follow like she shouldn't have carried out the assault, etc. I don't think she should have but I doubt any other woman on this site would want to be sent to a male prison, if they had Cos she still legally identifies as a man and hasn't taken the time to change that. If she had, this wouldn't be an issue. So because she did not fill out a form, we can all sleep easy knowing that she could / would be raped in an all-male prision Hope you've completed all your forms, just in case I don't understand why someone who is trans wouldn't have prepared fully and left it so late - cases take months to go to court, and even longer for sentencing. The courts can only follow which gender she identifies as legally to protect other inmates. It was solely her responsibility, it's not the courts fault. I don't know the ins and outs of the forms or passports required to go to prison or to get transgender certificates But I can make an intelligent guess and say that this woman does or does not pose any more or less threat than any other female does to any female prisoner in a female prison. And that she will be in great danger in a male prisoner This isn't exactly nuclear physics You're ignoring the fact that her advocate and litigator will have warned her of custodial sentences, as well as the judge and police investigating. She is not the first transgender criminal, so I just fail to see why she didn't prepare fully. This is very much her own responsibility and she's put herself at risk through being careless. I am sorry but I just do not understand Are you saying that we should expose her to a very real danger of rape because she was convicted of an assault and that she did not complete some form in time? If that is what you are saying then I hear you " No, I'm saying that she should've taken care to not put herself at risk. She was fully aware of the possibilities (every criminal is), and should've ensured she was prepared as this was the only possible outcome. Her stupidity and recklessness is not the magistrate's fault. Also, not completing a form in time suggests she took the initial steps to prevent this, which isn't the case - she took no measures until it was too late. | |||
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"Not filling in paperwork is a careless, stupid mistake to make especially if you know that you've committed a crime. However, she's someone's daughter/sister/friend and she has lived her entire adult life as a woman. She's had surgery, I know not whether her surgery is complete but as a fellow human with some compassion I have signed and shared her petition. Do the crime, do the time but even criminals deserve to be safe in custody. But if she's lived her life as a woma b it's not a carless mistake it's an active choice. Every time she's filled out a form for years that requires it to be checked against ID she will have had to tick "male" not female on the gender choice section. " My passport has just expired. It's 10 years old. I've no idea whether she's travelled as a woman or not however it could well be that her passport was obtained when she was 16, technically still a child and therefore she's not updated it. She's only 26. I have no idea what she's filled in on forms since making the transition from man to woman but having used Google this morning, it's clear to me, from one look at her that she will not be safe in an adult male prison tucked in beside the sex offenders. On that note, I don't care which forms she's filled in or not, or what crime she's committed, justice has been done and she's been sentenced. She deserves to complete her sentence in safety. | |||
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"If I'm going to prison... I'd rather go a female one myself "This is the point. Absolutely any male could just say "but I'm transgender", so the courts have to follow procedures to protect existing inmates. There is precedence which is why she should have taken care to prevent this from happening, but she made the choice not to. | |||
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" Are you saying that we should expose her to a very real danger of rape because she was convicted of an assault and that she did not complete some form in time? If that is what you are saying then I hear you By this logic though no male should go to a male prison either due to the very real danger of rape She is not male; she is of no danger to any other female prisoner in a female prison A male inmate in a female prison will pose a threat to female prisioners Well that's a very nice non sequitur (completely ignoring sexual assult occurs in female prisons too though) but it bears no relation to what I said does it?" Short of housing each and every prisioner in a separate prision the solution at the moment is to segregrate male and female prisoners And whilst she was careless in not completing the papers in time, she does not deserve to be put in a situation where she would be raped in a male prison As an aside; why can't she complete the form now? | |||
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"Just out of curiosity did she assault a male or a female?" For all we know she could go all ninja on the men in there and they could be in danger | |||
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" Are you saying that we should expose her to a very real danger of rape because she was convicted of an assault and that she did not complete some form in time? If that is what you are saying then I hear you By this logic though no male should go to a male prison either due to the very real danger of rape She is not male; she is of no danger to any other female prisoner in a female prison A male inmate in a female prison will pose a threat to female prisioners Well that's a very nice non sequitur (completely ignoring sexual assult occurs in female prisons too though) but it bears no relation to what I said does it? Short of housing each and every prisioner in a separate prision the solution at the moment is to segregrate male and female prisoners And whilst she was careless in not completing the papers in time, she does not deserve to be put in a situation where she would be raped in a male prison As an aside; why can't she complete the form now? " She's had 10 months... | |||
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"Not filling in paperwork is a careless, stupid mistake to make especially if you know that you've committed a crime. However, she's someone's daughter/sister/friend and she has lived her entire adult life as a woman. She's had surgery, I know not whether her surgery is complete but as a fellow human with some compassion I have signed and shared her petition. Do the crime, do the time but even criminals deserve to be safe in custody. But if she's lived her life as a woma b it's not a carless mistake it's an active choice. Every time she's filled out a form for years that requires it to be checked against ID she will have had to tick "male" not female on the gender choice section. My passport has just expired. It's 10 years old. I've no idea whether she's travelled as a woman or not however it could well be that her passport was obtained when she was 16, technically still a child and therefore she's not updated it. She's only 26. I have no idea what she's filled in on forms since making the transition from man to woman but having used Google this morning, it's clear to me, from one look at her that she will not be safe in an adult male prison tucked in beside the sex offenders. On that note, I don't care which forms she's filled in or not, or what crime she's committed, justice has been done and she's been sentenced. She deserves to complete her sentence in safety. " It's not about her passport it's about her birth certificate. She hasn't had the gender changed so in the eyes of the law she is still he. However, at some point this should have been picked up and addressed by some part of the legal process. I imagine the prison staff are not best pleased as they will probably be keeping her in isolation for her own safety as they do with child abusers. | |||
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" Are you saying that we should expose her to a very real danger of rape because she was convicted of an assault and that she did not complete some form in time? If that is what you are saying then I hear you By this logic though no male should go to a male prison either due to the very real danger of rape She is not male; she is of no danger to any other female prisoner in a female prison A male inmate in a female prison will pose a threat to female prisioners Well that's a very nice non sequitur (completely ignoring sexual assult occurs in female prisons too though) but it bears no relation to what I said does it? Short of housing each and every prisioner in a separate prision the solution at the moment is to segregrate male and female prisoners And whilst she was careless in not completing the papers in time, she does not deserve to be put in a situation where she would be raped in a male prison As an aside; why can't she complete the form now? She's had 10 months..." Yes, she had whatever time to do it but she didn't Is is not possible for her to fill in the form now. She has a doctor stating that she is female so I guess it is a form and a possible application fee to be paid Or do they send people out to inspect what is 'down there' and verify? | |||
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"If I'm going to prison... I'd rather go a female one myself
This is the point. Absolutely any male could just say "but I'm transgender", so the courts have to follow procedures to protect existing inmates. There is precedence which is why she should have taken care to prevent this from happening, but she made the choice not to. "Fair point. I imagine if she was moved to a female prison she would still be segregated for safety of her and others. If I was sent to prison after living as a woman but not operated on, I would expect to go to a male prison. I would then have to decide if I was going to revert to male for safety or continue as a woman and hope I was kept safe in segregation. She doesn't have that option. She is clearly female and can't hide it. She poses no more of a risk to the other inmates in a female prison than any other female does. Just heard they will be talking about this on radio 2 after the news. | |||
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"just wondering where the solicitor was in all this ...... ? "Hopefully in prison for the part they have played in all of this. They shoud have known, unless she never told them that she was born male but is now female | |||
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"If I'm going to prison... I'd rather go a female one myself
This is the point. Absolutely any male could just say "but I'm transgender", so the courts have to follow procedures to protect existing inmates. There is precedence which is why she should have taken care to prevent this from happening, but she made the choice not to.
Fair point. I imagine if she was moved to a female prison she would still be segregated for safety of her and others.
If I was sent to prison after living as a woman but not operated on, I would expect to go to a male prison.
I would then have to decide if I was going to revert to male for safety or continue as a woman and hope I was kept safe in segregation.
She doesn't have that option. She is clearly female and can't hide it.
She poses no more of a risk to the other inmates in a female prison than any other female does.
Just heard they will be talking about this on radio 2 after the news. "I understand that she identifies as a female, however I can only think that if I believed my life to be at risk given one of very real outcomes, I would've taken care to prevent it from happening. This was not a surprise, she would've known this was a possibility. | |||
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"Tara Hudson is a transgender woman who has has operations and been living as a woman for many years. She has been convicted of assault and sent to prison for 12 weeks. However, because she hasn't changed her passport to female she has been sent to a make prison. There is a petition online supporting her transfer to a female prison. I've signed it. Hope some of you too feel strongly enough to sign it too. " Maybe she likes gang-bangs  | |||
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"Tara Hudson is a transgender woman who has has operations and been living as a woman for many years. She has been convicted of assault and sent to prison for 12 weeks. However, because she hasn't changed her passport to female she has been sent to a make prison. There is a petition online supporting her transfer to a female prison. I've signed it. Hope some of you too feel strongly enough to sign it too. Maybe she likes gang-bangs "That's not funny. | |||
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"Tara Hudson is a transgender woman who has has operations and been living as a woman for many years. She has been convicted of assault and sent to prison for 12 weeks. However, because she hasn't changed her passport to female she has been sent to a make prison. There is a petition online supporting her transfer to a female prison. I've signed it. Hope some of you too feel strongly enough to sign it too. Maybe she likes gang-bangs "And you think that is funny? | |||
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"Who decided she posed no greater threat in a female prison than any other female inmate? The courts had all the information, the public won't get that. " It's not the court's responsibility to decide the gender of someone. It's not even legally allowed to change an adult's gender on their behalf. The onus was on the criminal to ensure she was recognised as the gender she identifies as. | |||
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"Who decided she posed no greater threat in a female prison than any other female inmate? The courts had all the information, the public won't get that. " I have seen some women who scare the living daylights out of me. Still doesn't mean that they are not women and that they should be sent to male prisions, if convicted | |||
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"Who decided she posed no greater threat in a female prison than any other female inmate? The courts had all the information, the public won't get that. It's not the court's responsibility to decide the gender of someone. It's not even legally allowed to change an adult's gender on their behalf. The onus was on the criminal to ensure she was recognised as the gender she identifies as. " It is really complicated and at times stupid. It's a valid question though. If she's been convicted of assaulting let's say a 6.6 medium build male that is very different to a cat fight. I know many of the systems are doomed, outdated and frankly bizarre but all prisoners deserve to be kept safe. Even female ones. The law hasn't kept up with society. | |||
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"Who decided she posed no greater threat in a female prison than any other female inmate? The courts had all the information, the public won't get that. It's not the court's responsibility to decide the gender of someone. It's not even legally allowed to change an adult's gender on their behalf. The onus was on the criminal to ensure she was recognised as the gender she identifies as. It is really complicated and at times stupid. It's a valid question though. If she's been convicted of assaulting let's say a 6.6 medium build male that is very different to a cat fight. I know many of the systems are doomed, outdated and frankly bizarre but all prisoners deserve to be kept safe. Even female ones. The law hasn't kept up with society. " I don't think the crime really matters in this case. And I don't believe the law is at fault here, either. It was all very easily avoided. | |||
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"If I'm going to prison... I'd rather go a female one myself
This is the point. Absolutely any male could just say "but I'm transgender", so the courts have to follow procedures to protect existing inmates. There is precedence which is why she should have taken care to prevent this from happening, but she made the choice not to.
Fair point. I imagine if she was moved to a female prison she would still be segregated for safety of her and others.
If I was sent to prison after living as a woman but not operated on, I would expect to go to a male prison.
I would then have to decide if I was going to revert to male for safety or continue as a woman and hope I was kept safe in segregation.
She doesn't have that option. She is clearly female and can't hide it.
She poses no more of a risk to the other inmates in a female prison than any other female does.
Just heard they will be talking about this on radio 2 after the news.
I understand that she identifies as a female, however I can only think that if I believed my life to be at risk given one of very real outcomes, I would've taken care to prevent it from happening.
This was not a surprise, she would've known this was a possibility. "I have experience of being on the wrong side of the law when my ex tried to set me up for something she had actually done. My head was in such a whirl panicking that my passport and birth certificate, car tax, 25 yard swimming certificate, all dropped from my mind. I imagine she stood in the dock as a woman not thinking for a second that her passport would decide what gender prison she went to. | |||
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"Who decided she posed no greater threat in a female prison than any other female inmate? The courts had all the information, the public won't get that. It's not the court's responsibility to decide the gender of someone. It's not even legally allowed to change an adult's gender on their behalf. The onus was on the criminal to ensure she was recognised as the gender she identifies as. It is really complicated and at times stupid. It's a valid question though. If she's been convicted of assaulting let's say a 6.6 medium build male that is very different to a cat fight. I know many of the systems are doomed, outdated and frankly bizarre but all prisoners deserve to be kept safe. Even female ones. The law hasn't kept up with society. " Will we now have to have prisons with BBWs held securely? | |||
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"If I'm going to prison... I'd rather go a female one myself
This is the point. Absolutely any male could just say "but I'm transgender", so the courts have to follow procedures to protect existing inmates. There is precedence which is why she should have taken care to prevent this from happening, but she made the choice not to.
Fair point. I imagine if she was moved to a female prison she would still be segregated for safety of her and others.
If I was sent to prison after living as a woman but not operated on, I would expect to go to a male prison.
I would then have to decide if I was going to revert to male for safety or continue as a woman and hope I was kept safe in segregation.
She doesn't have that option. She is clearly female and can't hide it.
She poses no more of a risk to the other inmates in a female prison than any other female does.
Just heard they will be talking about this on radio 2 after the news.
I understand that she identifies as a female, however I can only think that if I believed my life to be at risk given one of very real outcomes, I would've taken care to prevent it from happening.
This was not a surprise, she would've known this was a possibility.
I have experience of being on the wrong side of the law when my ex tried to set me up for something she had actually done.
My head was in such a whirl panicking that my passport and birth certificate, car tax, 25 yard swimming certificate, all dropped from my mind.
I imagine she stood in the dock as a woman not thinking for a second that her passport would decide what gender prison she went to.
"Her passport was just used as an identifier, it clearly wasn't the deciding factor. Before sentencing, criminals are warned to get affairs in order and that a custodial sentence is a strong possibility. I do not see why this advice wasn't listened to at even that very late point. 10 months is a very long time to be a "whirlwind". | |||
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"If I'm going to prison... I'd rather go a female one myself
This is the point. Absolutely any male could just say "but I'm transgender", so the courts have to follow procedures to protect existing inmates. There is precedence which is why she should have taken care to prevent this from happening, but she made the choice not to.
Fair point. I imagine if she was moved to a female prison she would still be segregated for safety of her and others.
If I was sent to prison after living as a woman but not operated on, I would expect to go to a male prison.
I would then have to decide if I was going to revert to male for safety or continue as a woman and hope I was kept safe in segregation.
She doesn't have that option. She is clearly female and can't hide it.
She poses no more of a risk to the other inmates in a female prison than any other female does.
Just heard they will be talking about this on radio 2 after the news.
I understand that she identifies as a female, however I can only think that if I believed my life to be at risk given one of very real outcomes, I would've taken care to prevent it from happening.
This was not a surprise, she would've known this was a possibility.
I have experience of being on the wrong side of the law when my ex tried to set me up for something she had actually done.
My head was in such a whirl panicking that my passport and birth certificate, car tax, 25 yard swimming certificate, all dropped from my mind.
I imagine she stood in the dock as a woman not thinking for a second that her passport would decide what gender prison she went to.
Her passport was just used as an identifier, it clearly wasn't the deciding factor.
Before sentencing, criminals are warned to get affairs in order and that a custodial sentence is a strong possibility. I do not see why this advice wasn't listened to at even that very late point. 10 months is a very long time to be a "whirlwind". "What if she didn't have a passport? What would they do then? | |||
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"If I'm going to prison... I'd rather go a female one myself
This is the point. Absolutely any male could just say "but I'm transgender", so the courts have to follow procedures to protect existing inmates. There is precedence which is why she should have taken care to prevent this from happening, but she made the choice not to.
Fair point. I imagine if she was moved to a female prison she would still be segregated for safety of her and others.
If I was sent to prison after living as a woman but not operated on, I would expect to go to a male prison.
I would then have to decide if I was going to revert to male for safety or continue as a woman and hope I was kept safe in segregation.
She doesn't have that option. She is clearly female and can't hide it.
She poses no more of a risk to the other inmates in a female prison than any other female does.
Just heard they will be talking about this on radio 2 after the news.
I understand that she identifies as a female, however I can only think that if I believed my life to be at risk given one of very real outcomes, I would've taken care to prevent it from happening.
This was not a surprise, she would've known this was a possibility.
I have experience of being on the wrong side of the law when my ex tried to set me up for something she had actually done.
My head was in such a whirl panicking that my passport and birth certificate, car tax, 25 yard swimming certificate, all dropped from my mind.
I imagine she stood in the dock as a woman not thinking for a second that her passport would decide what gender prison she went to.
Her passport was just used as an identifier, it clearly wasn't the deciding factor.
Before sentencing, criminals are warned to get affairs in order and that a custodial sentence is a strong possibility. I do not see why this advice wasn't listened to at even that very late point. 10 months is a very long time to be a "whirlwind".
What if she didn't have a passport? What would they do then?"Rely on birth certificate or any other formal identification. | |||
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" I don't think the crime really matters in this case. And I don't believe the law is at fault here, either. It was all very easily avoided. " I don't think the crime or the forms or where the blame lies really matters. It's the course of action that's taken now that's important. Or do we want to be reading the next headline when something bad happens to her that could have been prevented? | |||
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"If I'm going to prison... I'd rather go a female one myself
This is the point. Absolutely any male could just say "but I'm transgender", so the courts have to follow procedures to protect existing inmates. There is precedence which is why she should have taken care to prevent this from happening, but she made the choice not to.
Fair point. I imagine if she was moved to a female prison she would still be segregated for safety of her and others.
If I was sent to prison after living as a woman but not operated on, I would expect to go to a male prison.
I would then have to decide if I was going to revert to male for safety or continue as a woman and hope I was kept safe in segregation.
She doesn't have that option. She is clearly female and can't hide it.
She poses no more of a risk to the other inmates in a female prison than any other female does.
Just heard they will be talking about this on radio 2 after the news.
I understand that she identifies as a female, however I can only think that if I believed my life to be at risk given one of very real outcomes, I would've taken care to prevent it from happening.
This was not a surprise, she would've known this was a possibility.
I have experience of being on the wrong side of the law when my ex tried to set me up for something she had actually done.
My head was in such a whirl panicking that my passport and birth certificate, car tax, 25 yard swimming certificate, all dropped from my mind.
I imagine she stood in the dock as a woman not thinking for a second that her passport would decide what gender prison she went to.
Her passport was just used as an identifier, it clearly wasn't the deciding factor.
Before sentencing, criminals are warned to get affairs in order and that a custodial sentence is a strong possibility. I do not see why this advice wasn't listened to at even that very late point. 10 months is a very long time to be a "whirlwind".
What if she didn't have a passport? What would they do then?
Rely on birth certificate or any other formal identification. "Oh OK, I get it now. So her birth certificate states that she is male OK, can she not have that changed now? How long does it take to do that? And while that is happening, can they not put her in some secure place? It is not as if she is an axe murderess | |||
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" I don't think the crime really matters in this case. And I don't believe the law is at fault here, either. It was all very easily avoided. I don't think the crime or the forms or where the blame lies really matters. It's the course of action that's taken now that's important. Or do we want to be reading the next headline when something bad happens to her that could have been prevented? "No, of course not, however this was the only possible outcome and she should have taken care to prevent it. It's ridiculous to say the courts or anyone else should have prevented this when it is only the criminal's responsibility. | |||
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"If I'm going to prison... I'd rather go a female one myself
This is the point. Absolutely any male could just say "but I'm transgender", so the courts have to follow procedures to protect existing inmates. There is precedence which is why she should have taken care to prevent this from happening, but she made the choice not to.
Fair point. I imagine if she was moved to a female prison she would still be segregated for safety of her and others.
If I was sent to prison after living as a woman but not operated on, I would expect to go to a male prison.
I would then have to decide if I was going to revert to male for safety or continue as a woman and hope I was kept safe in segregation.
She doesn't have that option. She is clearly female and can't hide it.
She poses no more of a risk to the other inmates in a female prison than any other female does.
Just heard they will be talking about this on radio 2 after the news.
I understand that she identifies as a female, however I can only think that if I believed my life to be at risk given one of very real outcomes, I would've taken care to prevent it from happening.
This was not a surprise, she would've known this was a possibility.
I have experience of being on the wrong side of the law when my ex tried to set me up for something she had actually done.
My head was in such a whirl panicking that my passport and birth certificate, car tax, 25 yard swimming certificate, all dropped from my mind.
I imagine she stood in the dock as a woman not thinking for a second that her passport would decide what gender prison she went to.
Her passport was just used as an identifier, it clearly wasn't the deciding factor.
Before sentencing, criminals are warned to get affairs in order and that a custodial sentence is a strong possibility. I do not see why this advice wasn't listened to at even that very late point. 10 months is a very long time to be a "whirlwind".
What if she didn't have a passport? What would they do then?
Rely on birth certificate or any other formal identification. "Surely common sense should also be considered? | |||
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"If I'm going to prison... I'd rather go a female one myself
This is the point. Absolutely any male could just say "but I'm transgender", so the courts have to follow procedures to protect existing inmates. There is precedence which is why she should have taken care to prevent this from happening, but she made the choice not to.
Fair point. I imagine if she was moved to a female prison she would still be segregated for safety of her and others.
If I was sent to prison after living as a woman but not operated on, I would expect to go to a male prison.
I would then have to decide if I was going to revert to male for safety or continue as a woman and hope I was kept safe in segregation.
She doesn't have that option. She is clearly female and can't hide it.
She poses no more of a risk to the other inmates in a female prison than any other female does.
Just heard they will be talking about this on radio 2 after the news.
I understand that she identifies as a female, however I can only think that if I believed my life to be at risk given one of very real outcomes, I would've taken care to prevent it from happening.
This was not a surprise, she would've known this was a possibility.
I have experience of being on the wrong side of the law when my ex tried to set me up for something she had actually done.
My head was in such a whirl panicking that my passport and birth certificate, car tax, 25 yard swimming certificate, all dropped from my mind.
I imagine she stood in the dock as a woman not thinking for a second that her passport would decide what gender prison she went to.
Her passport was just used as an identifier, it clearly wasn't the deciding factor.
Before sentencing, criminals are warned to get affairs in order and that a custodial sentence is a strong possibility. I do not see why this advice wasn't listened to at even that very late point. 10 months is a very long time to be a "whirlwind".
What if she didn't have a passport? What would they do then?
Rely on birth certificate or any other formal identification.
Oh OK, I get it now. So her birth certificate states that she is male
OK, can she not have that changed now? How long does it take to do that? And while that is happening, can they not put her in some secure place? It is not as if she is an axe murderess"She should have petitioned before or at the time of sentencing. Now she has been told to surrender to a facility, it's too late. Her solicitor should really be requesting she be placed in protective custody (I doubt the prison would place her in general population anyway). | |||
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"If I'm going to prison... I'd rather go a female one myself
This is the point. Absolutely any male could just say "but I'm transgender", so the courts have to follow procedures to protect existing inmates. There is precedence which is why she should have taken care to prevent this from happening, but she made the choice not to.
Fair point. I imagine if she was moved to a female prison she would still be segregated for safety of her and others.
If I was sent to prison after living as a woman but not operated on, I would expect to go to a male prison.
I would then have to decide if I was going to revert to male for safety or continue as a woman and hope I was kept safe in segregation.
She doesn't have that option. She is clearly female and can't hide it.
She poses no more of a risk to the other inmates in a female prison than any other female does.
Just heard they will be talking about this on radio 2 after the news.
I understand that she identifies as a female, however I can only think that if I believed my life to be at risk given one of very real outcomes, I would've taken care to prevent it from happening.
This was not a surprise, she would've known this was a possibility.
I have experience of being on the wrong side of the law when my ex tried to set me up for something she had actually done.
My head was in such a whirl panicking that my passport and birth certificate, car tax, 25 yard swimming certificate, all dropped from my mind.
I imagine she stood in the dock as a woman not thinking for a second that her passport would decide what gender prison she went to.
Her passport was just used as an identifier, it clearly wasn't the deciding factor.
Before sentencing, criminals are warned to get affairs in order and that a custodial sentence is a strong possibility. I do not see why this advice wasn't listened to at even that very late point. 10 months is a very long time to be a "whirlwind".
What if she didn't have a passport? What would they do then?
Rely on birth certificate or any other formal identification.
Surely common sense should also be considered?
"Yes, on her behalf. | |||
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" I don't think the crime really matters in this case. And I don't believe the law is at fault here, either. It was all very easily avoided. I don't think the crime or the forms or where the blame lies really matters. It's the course of action that's taken now that's important. Or do we want to be reading the next headline when something bad happens to her that could have been prevented? "Someone has a level head here I am certain that her family are thinking this too. What can the folk here do apart from sign the petitions I am just at a loss to understand why the paperwork cannot be hurried through now. It is not as if she has to undergo surgery. That was done years ago so the paperwork must be just a formality of some sort | |||
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" I don't think the crime really matters in this case. And I don't believe the law is at fault here, either. It was all very easily avoided. I don't think the crime or the forms or where the blame lies really matters. It's the course of action that's taken now that's important. Or do we want to be reading the next headline when something bad happens to her that could have been prevented?
No, of course not, however this was the only possible outcome and she should have taken care to prevent it. It's ridiculous to say the courts or anyone else should have prevented this when it is only the criminal's responsibility. "Of course it's her responsibility. It's her life. That's not really the point of the petition though. She should be safe. Her body is that of a woman. She should therefore be in a women's prison. The authorities now have a responsibility to help her complete the relevant paperwork and keep her safe. That is why I signed it. | |||
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As soon as my debts are paid and I save the money I'll get mine sorted! | |||
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"That is not good, but as she been living as a transgender for years and haven't had the thought of updating her passport, it is abit careless. Wonder how bad the assault was, cos no one get send down for nothing." Shag; she was living as a woman and not as a "transgender" or as an "elf" And irrespective of how good, bad or ugly the assault was and whether her conviction was fair, unfair, right or wrong, the fact is that this woman should be in a female prision Now knowing you, you would like to go there too and right at this very moment are stealing candy in broad daylight to facilitate that process  | |||
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"Maybe she just hasn't had the spare cash to sort out her birth certificate? It's why I haven't as I don't currently have around £200 spare or the time to faff around trying to get the psychiatrists (who say it's a waste of time) at the gender clinic I was signed off from (one of the busiest in the country) to write the letters I need to go with the form (that is stupidly long and not exactly simple). Although I am not aiming to be put in prison ever, I wonder what other things can be screwed up through not having a Gender Recognition Cetificate As soon as my debts are paid and I save the money I'll get mine sorted!"Quite a lot of people qualify for fee remission. | |||
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"That is not good, but as she been living as a transgender for years and haven't had the thought of updating her passport, it is abit careless. Wonder how bad the assault was, cos no one get send down for nothing. Shag; she was living as a woman and not as a "transgender" or as an "elf" And irrespective of how good, bad or ugly the assault was and whether her conviction was fair, unfair, right or wrong, the fact is that this woman should be in a female prision Now knowing you, you would like to go there too and right at this very moment are stealing candy in broad daylight to facilitate that process "lol or pay some haribos there, but yeah it is all very confusing aint it. | |||
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"Maybe she just hasn't had the spare cash to sort out her birth certificate? It's why I haven't as I don't currently have around £200 spare or the time to faff around trying to get the psychiatrists (who say it's a waste of time) at the gender clinic I was signed off from (one of the busiest in the country) to write the letters I need to go with the form (that is stupidly long and not exactly simple). Although I am not aiming to be put in prison ever, I wonder what other things can be screwed up through not having a Gender Recognition Cetificate As soon as my debts are paid and I save the money I'll get mine sorted!
Quite a lot of people qualify for fee remission. "I was about to say "Really?" as I hadn't heard of that but there is no point me looking at it as for anything like that I never qualify as I supposidly earn too much  | |||
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"Ah. Listening to the radio it seems she still has a penis. This gets a bit more complicated. I think they should be putting her where she'll be safest. In with the sex offenders in a male prison doesn't seem to be it to me. " Ah, yikes, that does make it a bit tricky then | |||
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"I honestly don't think she will be in general population in either prison. I don't think women's prison is any safer than a man's. I do think the courts and law need to catch up with society and things need to be addressed properly. " So, women with passports stating they are female are safe for each other but women who do not have passports stating they are female are at the same risk as if they were in a male prison? I think it is a choice she should be given; a definitely unsafe male prison or a female prison which may or may not be safe for her | |||
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"I honestly don't think she will be in general population in either prison. I don't think women's prison is any safer than a man's. I do think the courts and law need to catch up with society and things need to be addressed properly. So, women with passports stating they are female are safe for each other but women who do not have passports stating they are female are at the same risk as if they were in a male prison? I think it is a choice she should be given; a definitely unsafe male prison or a female prison which may or may not be safe for her" The passport bit is arbitrary. It is just the legal identifier used as she has no other legal paperwork to identify her as female. If precedence is given, and she is allowed to enter a female facility despite legally being male, it will put inmates at risk in the future. Precautions have to be taken. | |||
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"Ah. Listening to the radio it seems she still has a penis. This gets a bit more complicated. I think they should be putting her where she'll be safest. In with the sex offenders in a male prison doesn't seem to be it to me. " So a person who has a penis and a birth certificate stating they are male now wants to go to a woman's prison because they dress like a woman and look very convincing? I have to say that it is indeed a very sad situation, but an exception in this case can have a snowball effect. How pretty or convincing does the next person have to be to get put in a woman's prison? There are more people's safety to consider than this one individual. -Courtney | |||
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"She can beat people up and she still has a penis im hearing so you could say she is in the process of becoming a women but not yet a women so that means mens prison its not rocket science i was sticking up for early in the thread but ive now changed my mind sorry "No need to be sorry. I've had a wobble on this too now. Looking at her. Knowing she, like me, felt from 5 years old she wanted to be a woman. Knowing she has lived as a woman for ten years. Had breasts. Is on hormones. Looks very female ..... If I was her I'd be terrified to be put in a male prison. I'd feel I should be in a female one and isolated. | |||
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"Ah. Listening to the radio it seems she still has a penis. This gets a bit more complicated. I think they should be putting her where she'll be safest. In with the sex offenders in a male prison doesn't seem to be it to me. " So what were the surgeries for? Tooth extraction??? OK, this is now quite different as ofcourse this person cannot be in a female prison irrespective of which nationality or gender passport they hold Still, they cannot be in a male prision as outwardly, they appear female I suppose a transgender prision would be the answer but I don't think such a facility exists so it will be a male prision where they are segregated from the other prisioners | |||
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"Ah. Listening to the radio it seems she still has a penis. This gets a bit more complicated. I think they should be putting her where she'll be safest. In with the sex offenders in a male prison doesn't seem to be it to me. So what were the surgeries for? Tooth extraction??? OK, this is now quite different as ofcourse this person cannot be in a female prison irrespective of which nationality or gender passport they hold Still, they cannot be in a male prision as outwardly, they appear female I suppose a transgender prision would be the answer but I don't think such a facility exists so it will be a male prision where they are segregated from the other prisioners" Well, there's the other possibility of ensuring you're legally recognised as the gender you identify as. Then all of this wouldn't be necessary. | |||
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"Do the crime do the time regardless of gender
i dont disagree at all, but surely you would be imprisoned according to your gender...in this case,female...can't see the confusion really.."this.. have signed it | |||
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"She can beat people up and she still has a penis im hearing so you could say she is in the process of becoming a women but not yet a women so that means mens prison its not rocket science i was sticking up for early in the thread but ive now changed my mind sorry
No need to be sorry. I've had a wobble on this too now.
Looking at her. Knowing she, like me, felt from 5 years old she wanted to be a woman. Knowing she has lived as a woman for ten years. Had breasts. Is on hormones. Looks very female .....
If I was her I'd be terrified to be put in a male prison.
I'd feel I should be in a female one and isolated.
"I'm also in the wobble camp. Pays to know all the facts. However, I'm sticking with her safety being the important issue. Six weeks in solitary I guess is the answer. Then I dare say it makes no odds which prison she's in. Six weeks alone and safe is surely preferable to being incarcerated with sex offenders in a male prison. | |||
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"She can beat people up and she still has a penis im hearing so you could say she is in the process of becoming a women but not yet a women so that means mens prison its not rocket science i was sticking up for early in the thread but ive now changed my mind sorry
No need to be sorry. I've had a wobble on this too now.
Looking at her. Knowing she, like me, felt from 5 years old she wanted to be a woman. Knowing she has lived as a woman for ten years. Had breasts. Is on hormones. Looks very female .....
If I was her I'd be terrified to be put in a male prison.
I'd feel I should be in a female one and isolated.
"Would they of considered her to be female if she had the full operation or would there need to be other things in place first | |||
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"She can beat people up and she still has a penis im hearing so you could say she is in the process of becoming a women but not yet a women so that means mens prison its not rocket science i was sticking up for early in the thread but ive now changed my mind sorry
No need to be sorry. I've had a wobble on this too now.
Looking at her. Knowing she, like me, felt from 5 years old she wanted to be a woman. Knowing she has lived as a woman for ten years. Had breasts. Is on hormones. Looks very female .....
If I was her I'd be terrified to be put in a male prison.
I'd feel I should be in a female one and isolated.
I'm also in the wobble camp. Pays to know all the facts. However, I'm sticking with her safety being the important issue. Six weeks in solitary I guess is the answer. Then I dare say it makes no odds which prison she's in. Six weeks alone and safe is surely preferable to being incarcerated with sex offenders in a male prison. "Sadly for her, this is quite likely the only possible outcome. Or having the sentence suspended, which is completely wrong. | |||
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"Ah. Listening to the radio it seems she still has a penis. This gets a bit more complicated. I think they should be putting her where she'll be safest. In with the sex offenders in a male prison doesn't seem to be it to me. So what were the surgeries for? Tooth extraction??? OK, this is now quite different as ofcourse this person cannot be in a female prison irrespective of which nationality or gender passport they hold Still, they cannot be in a male prision as outwardly, they appear female I suppose a transgender prision would be the answer but I don't think such a facility exists so it will be a male prision where they are segregated from the other prisioners Well, there's the other possibility of ensuring you're legally recognised as the gender you identify as. Then all of this wouldn't be necessary. " Yes, ofcourse. But now we know why this person isn't legally recognised as female; it is because they still have a male body Whilst I am still feeling frightened for them, I am also thinking of how I would feel if I were in prison and a person, who was still male, was housed in my cell This is a complicated issue and a very sad situation. I do not know the answer They are male but with a female appearance; so they will be sent to a male prison but the authorities must act sensibly and segregate them from the other prisoners I am now sorry that I signed the petition as I do not think they should be sent to a female prision. The safety of those women is important too. This person has already assaulted someone. What if they now raped a female prisoner? | |||
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"She can beat people up and she still has a penis im hearing so you could say she is in the process of becoming a women but not yet a women so that means mens prison its not rocket science i was sticking up for early in the thread but ive now changed my mind sorry
No need to be sorry. I've had a wobble on this too now.
Looking at her. Knowing she, like me, felt from 5 years old she wanted to be a woman. Knowing she has lived as a woman for ten years. Had breasts. Is on hormones. Looks very female .....
If I was her I'd be terrified to be put in a male prison.
I'd feel I should be in a female one and isolated.
Would they of considered her to be female if she had the full operation or would there need to be other things in place first "No, she just needed to take the measures to be legally recognised as female (living as female for at least 2 years and being recognised medically as a female are the only requirements, not necessarily her genitals). | |||
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"We need a transgender prison." For such, in between cases; yes | |||
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"Ah. Listening to the radio it seems she still has a penis. This gets a bit more complicated. I think they should be putting her where she'll be safest. In with the sex offenders in a male prison doesn't seem to be it to me. So what were the surgeries for? Tooth extraction??? OK, this is now quite different as ofcourse this person cannot be in a female prison irrespective of which nationality or gender passport they hold Still, they cannot be in a male prision as outwardly, they appear female I suppose a transgender prision would be the answer but I don't think such a facility exists so it will be a male prision where they are segregated from the other prisioners Well, there's the other possibility of ensuring you're legally recognised as the gender you identify as. Then all of this wouldn't be necessary. Yes, ofcourse. But now we know why this person isn't legally recognised as female; it is because they still have a male body Whilst I am still feeling frightened for them, I am also thinking of how I would feel if I were in prison and a person, who was still male, was housed in my cell This is a complicated issue and a very sad situation. I do not know the answer They are male but with a female appearance; so they will be sent to a male prison but the authorities must act sensibly and segregate them from the other prisoners I am now sorry that I signed the petition as I do not think they should be sent to a female prision. The safety of those women is important too. This person has already assaulted someone. What if they now raped a female prisoner?" Well, I signed it as I believe she needs help but I do truly believe she is entirely at fault. I'm not sure it's possible for her to rape as oestrogen typically chemically castrates males. | |||
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"We need a transgender prison. For such, in between cases; yes" No we don't, as mentioned above the national offender management system (NOMS) already has provision within their estate to deal with trans prisoners based on the sex that they live as. | |||
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"We need a transgender prison. For such, in between cases; yes" At more expense to the tax payer of course ! | |||
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"I honestly don't think she will be in general population in either prison. I don't think women's prison is any safer than a man's. I do think the courts and law need to catch up with society and things need to be addressed properly. So, women with passports stating they are female are safe for each other but women who do not have passports stating they are female are at the same risk as if they were in a male prison? I think it is a choice she should be given; a definitely unsafe male prison or a female prison which may or may not be safe for her" At no point did I say it was gender based as to safety in prison. I'm fairly sure it's grim and dangerous in every prison. I don't want a headline about how she was raped in a male prison. I also don't want a headline about x amount of female prisoners getting pregnant/raped whilst in prison either. Rape is rape, gender irrelevant and I've heard enough about male male rape & female female rape in respective prisons. The prison system already segregates people (gender not applicable) that would not suit general population. So I refer back to my earlier points. We do not have enough information and she won't be in general population in either a male or female prison. | |||
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"Ah. Listening to the radio it seems she still has a penis. This gets a bit more complicated. I think they should be putting her where she'll be safest. In with the sex offenders in a male prison doesn't seem to be it to me. So what were the surgeries for? Tooth extraction??? OK, this is now quite different as ofcourse this person cannot be in a female prison irrespective of which nationality or gender passport they hold Still, they cannot be in a male prision as outwardly, they appear female I suppose a transgender prision would be the answer but I don't think such a facility exists so it will be a male prision where they are segregated from the other prisioners Well, there's the other possibility of ensuring you're legally recognised as the gender you identify as. Then all of this wouldn't be necessary. Yes, ofcourse. But now we know why this person isn't legally recognised as female; it is because they still have a male body Whilst I am still feeling frightened for them, I am also thinking of how I would feel if I were in prison and a person, who was still male, was housed in my cell This is a complicated issue and a very sad situation. I do not know the answer They are male but with a female appearance; so they will be sent to a male prison but the authorities must act sensibly and segregate them from the other prisoners I am now sorry that I signed the petition as I do not think they should be sent to a female prision. The safety of those women is important too. This person has already assaulted someone. What if they now raped a female prisoner? Well, I signed it as I believe she needs help but I do truly believe she is entirely at fault. I'm not sure it's possible for her to rape as oestrogen typically chemically castrates males. " What if they stop taking their medication? Or is it permanent? I think the experts need to decide I just don't want anything bad happening to them; I don't know what the answer is in this case except that they should be kept safe Damn | |||
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"She can beat people up and she still has a penis im hearing so you could say she is in the process of becoming a women but not yet a women so that means mens prison its not rocket science i was sticking up for early in the thread but ive now changed my mind sorry
No need to be sorry. I've had a wobble on this too now.
Looking at her. Knowing she, like me, felt from 5 years old she wanted to be a woman. Knowing she has lived as a woman for ten years. Had breasts. Is on hormones. Looks very female .....
If I was her I'd be terrified to be put in a male prison.
I'd feel I should be in a female one and isolated.
Would they of considered her to be female if she had the full operation or would there need to be other things in place first
No, she just needed to take the measures to be legally recognised as female (living as female for at least 2 years and being recognised medically as a female are the only requirements, not necessarily her genitals)."Can you be medically recognised as a female with male genitals ? Sorry for the questions just dont know how it works | |||
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"Ah. Listening to the radio it seems she still has a penis. This gets a bit more complicated. I think they should be putting her where she'll be safest. In with the sex offenders in a male prison doesn't seem to be it to me. So what were the surgeries for? Tooth extraction??? OK, this is now quite different as ofcourse this person cannot be in a female prison irrespective of which nationality or gender passport they hold Still, they cannot be in a male prision as outwardly, they appear female I suppose a transgender prision would be the answer but I don't think such a facility exists so it will be a male prision where they are segregated from the other prisioners Well, there's the other possibility of ensuring you're legally recognised as the gender you identify as. Then all of this wouldn't be necessary. Yes, ofcourse. But now we know why this person isn't legally recognised as female; it is because they still have a male body Whilst I am still feeling frightened for them, I am also thinking of how I would feel if I were in prison and a person, who was still male, was housed in my cell This is a complicated issue and a very sad situation. I do not know the answer They are male but with a female appearance; so they will be sent to a male prison but the authorities must act sensibly and segregate them from the other prisoners I am now sorry that I signed the petition as I do not think they should be sent to a female prision. The safety of those women is important too. This person has already assaulted someone. What if they now raped a female prisoner? Well, I signed it as I believe she needs help but I do truly believe she is entirely at fault. I'm not sure it's possible for her to rape as oestrogen typically chemically castrates males. What if they stop taking their medication? Or is it permanent? I think the experts need to decide I just don't want anything bad happening to them; I don't know what the answer is in this case except that they should be kept safe Damn "It depends on how long she's been taking it, I guess. If she started young enough, she would have caused irreparable damage to her male sex organs. Of course, no harm should come to her however she has to accept accountability for her inaction. The way the petition is worded is as if the magistrates cruelly decided this without consideration, when she took no steps to prevent it. | |||
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"She can beat people up and she still has a penis im hearing so you could say she is in the process of becoming a women but not yet a women so that means mens prison its not rocket science i was sticking up for early in the thread but ive now changed my mind sorry
No need to be sorry. I've had a wobble on this too now.
Looking at her. Knowing she, like me, felt from 5 years old she wanted to be a woman. Knowing she has lived as a woman for ten years. Had breasts. Is on hormones. Looks very female .....
If I was her I'd be terrified to be put in a male prison.
I'd feel I should be in a female one and isolated.
Would they of considered her to be female if she had the full operation or would there need to be other things in place first
No, she just needed to take the measures to be legally recognised as female (living as female for at least 2 years and being recognised medically as a female are the only requirements, not necessarily her genitals).
Can you be medically recognised as a female with male genitals ? Sorry for the questions just dont know how it works "Sometimes. It depends on the doctor and how you're living your life. A FTM can also be recognised as male without bottom surgery. | |||
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"Ah. Listening to the radio it seems she still has a penis. This gets a bit more complicated. I think they should be putting her where she'll be safest. In with the sex offenders in a male prison doesn't seem to be it to me. So what were the surgeries for? Tooth extraction??? OK, this is now quite different as ofcourse this person cannot be in a female prison irrespective of which nationality or gender passport they hold Still, they cannot be in a male prision as outwardly, they appear female I suppose a transgender prision would be the answer but I don't think such a facility exists so it will be a male prision where they are segregated from the other prisioners Well, there's the other possibility of ensuring you're legally recognised as the gender you identify as. Then all of this wouldn't be necessary. Yes, ofcourse. But now we know why this person isn't legally recognised as female; it is because they still have a male body Whilst I am still feeling frightened for them, I am also thinking of how I would feel if I were in prison and a person, who was still male, was housed in my cell This is a complicated issue and a very sad situation. I do not know the answer They are male but with a female appearance; so they will be sent to a male prison but the authorities must act sensibly and segregate them from the other prisoners I am now sorry that I signed the petition as I do not think they should be sent to a female prision. The safety of those women is important too. This person has already assaulted someone. What if they now raped a female prisoner? Well, I signed it as I believe she needs help but I do truly believe she is entirely at fault. I'm not sure it's possible for her to rape as oestrogen typically chemically castrates males. What if they stop taking their medication? Or is it permanent? I think the experts need to decide I just don't want anything bad happening to them; I don't know what the answer is in this case except that they should be kept safe Damn
It depends on how long she's been taking it, I guess. If she started young enough, she would have caused irreparable damage to her male sex organs.
Of course, no harm should come to her however she has to accept accountability for her inaction. The way the petition is worded is as if the magistrates cruelly decided this without consideration, when she took no steps to prevent it. "Yeah, I see your point now I didn't have all the facts earlier; I don't think anyone here did I would have still signed a petition but would have signed one worded differently. This one will do no good as their anatomy and legal gender has been considered before sentencing If it was only a question of paperwork, then I would have expected the authorities to do the sensible thing and expedite this. However, I doubt very much that they can now undergo overnight surgery. And who knows, maybe they don't even want to Like I said; I don't know what the correct thing to do in this case is except that their safety is the most important matter as is the safety of others | |||
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"We need a transgender prison. For such, in between cases; yes At more expense to the tax payer of course !" Are the other prisons built and maintained by IBM? | |||
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"Ah. Listening to the radio it seems she still has a penis. This gets a bit more complicated. I think they should be putting her where she'll be safest. In with the sex offenders in a male prison doesn't seem to be it to me. So what were the surgeries for? Tooth extraction??? OK, this is now quite different as ofcourse this person cannot be in a female prison irrespective of which nationality or gender passport they hold Still, they cannot be in a male prision as outwardly, they appear female I suppose a transgender prision would be the answer but I don't think such a facility exists so it will be a male prision where they are segregated from the other prisioners Well, there's the other possibility of ensuring you're legally recognised as the gender you identify as. Then all of this wouldn't be necessary. Yes, ofcourse. But now we know why this person isn't legally recognised as female; it is because they still have a male body Whilst I am still feeling frightened for them, I am also thinking of how I would feel if I were in prison and a person, who was still male, was housed in my cell This is a complicated issue and a very sad situation. I do not know the answer They are male but with a female appearance; so they will be sent to a male prison but the authorities must act sensibly and segregate them from the other prisoners I am now sorry that I signed the petition as I do not think they should be sent to a female prision. The safety of those women is important too. This person has already assaulted someone. What if they now raped a female prisoner? Well, I signed it as I believe she needs help but I do truly believe she is entirely at fault. I'm not sure it's possible for her to rape as oestrogen typically chemically castrates males. What if they stop taking their medication? Or is it permanent? I think the experts need to decide I just don't want anything bad happening to them; I don't know what the answer is in this case except that they should be kept safe Damn
It depends on how long she's been taking it, I guess. If she started young enough, she would have caused irreparable damage to her male sex organs.
Of course, no harm should come to her however she has to accept accountability for her inaction. The way the petition is worded is as if the magistrates cruelly decided this without consideration, when she took no steps to prevent it.
Yeah, I see your point now
I didn't have all the facts earlier; I don't think anyone here did
I would have still signed a petition but would have signed one worded differently. This one will do no good as their anatomy and legal gender has been considered before sentencing
If it was only a question of paperwork, then I would have expected the authorities to do the sensible thing and expedite this. However, I doubt very much that they can now undergo overnight surgery. And who knows, maybe they don't even want to
Like I said; I don't know what the correct thing to do in this case is except that their safety is the most important matter as is the safety of others"I think the magistrates did the only thing they could do given the information they had. She has put herself at risk in this case. I think it is right to have signed the petition as she does need help, but I'm in two minds as well. I do not understand why she chose to do nothing until this stage. | |||
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"We need a transgender prison. For such, in between cases; yes At more expense to the tax payer of course ! Are the other prisons built and maintained by IBM?" Excuse my ignorance,what's IBM ? | |||
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"We need a transgender prison. For such, in between cases; yes At more expense to the tax payer of course ! Are the other prisons built and maintained by IBM? Excuse my ignorance,what's IBM ?" International Business Machines? | |||
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"If I'm going to prison... I'd rather go a female one myself
This is the point. Absolutely any male could just say "but I'm transgender", so the courts have to follow procedures to protect existing inmates. There is precedence which is why she should have taken care to prevent this from happening, but she made the choice not to.
Fair point. I imagine if she was moved to a female prison she would still be segregated for safety of her and others.
If I was sent to prison after living as a woman but not operated on, I would expect to go to a male prison.
I would then have to decide if I was going to revert to male for safety or continue as a woman and hope I was kept safe in segregation.
She doesn't have that option. She is clearly female and can't hide it.
She poses no more of a risk to the other inmates in a female prison than any other female does.
Just heard they will be talking about this on radio 2 after the news. ". Everyone is saying she is no problem for female prisoners but what about the female prison officers she was born a man operations or not the genetics of males make physically stronger than women it would be easier for her to over power a female guard in my opinion | |||
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"We need a transgender prison. For such, in between cases; yes At more expense to the tax payer of course ! Are the other prisons built and maintained by IBM? Excuse my ignorance,what's IBM ?" Sorry, I was just trying to say that all prisons are maintained by the tax payer and none by the private sector. So to build one or two prisons for inmates who identify as male but have the anatomy and legal recognintion as female or vice versa may be a possible solution for such cases Whilst I agree that people who are convicted of a crime should be sent to prison and no leniency should be shown to them just because they are 'gender-indeterminate' (I can't think of a better phrase right now), we need to protect them from the heightened violence and abuse they would face in the 'wrong' gender prison IBM stands for International Business Machines; a US multinational which designed and manufactured mainframe computers | |||
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"Shes a men so should be in male prison she prob would love it there anyway" The idjits are waking up now | |||
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"Do you have a link for it please xtype in tara hudson petiton and it comes up " thanks honey found it xx | |||
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"Shes a men so should be in male prison she prob would love it there anyway The idjits are waking up now" | |||
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"Shes a men so should be in male prison she prob would love it there anyway The idjits are waking up now" Just expressing my opinion hun | |||
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"Shes a men so should be in male prison she prob would love it there anyway The idjits are waking up now Just expressing my opinion hun" and so is she and I agree with her | |||
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"Shes a men so should be in male prison she prob would love it there anyway The idjits are waking up now Just expressing my opinion hun" not a lot of people will agree with your opinion | |||
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"Shes a men so should be in male prison she prob would love it there anyway The idjits are waking up now Just expressing my opinion hun" It's not really an informed opinion though is it? | |||
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"Shes a men so should be in male prison she prob would love it there anyway The idjits are waking up now Just expressing my opinion hun not a lot of people will agree with your opinion "Thats fine by me everyone has diffrent views | |||
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"Shes a men so should be in male prison she prob would love it there anyway The idjits are waking up now Just expressing my opinion hun" Why do you think she would love it in a male prison? | |||
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"Shes a men so should be in male prison she prob would love it there anyway The idjits are waking up now Just expressing my opinion hun Why do you think she would love it in a male prison? " Ill let you figure that out for yourself  | |||
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"If I'm going to prison... I'd rather go a female one myself
This is the point. Absolutely any male could just say "but I'm transgender", so the courts have to follow procedures to protect existing inmates. There is precedence which is why she should have taken care to prevent this from happening, but she made the choice not to.
Fair point. I imagine if she was moved to a female prison she would still be segregated for safety of her and others.
If I was sent to prison after living as a woman but not operated on, I would expect to go to a male prison.
I would then have to decide if I was going to revert to male for safety or continue as a woman and hope I was kept safe in segregation.
She doesn't have that option. She is clearly female and can't hide it.
She poses no more of a risk to the other inmates in a female prison than any other female does.
Just heard they will be talking about this on radio 2 after the news. . Everyone is saying she is no problem for female prisoners but what about the female prison officers she was born a man operations or not the genetics of males make physically stronger than women it would be easier for her to over power a female guard in my opinion"Good job you get Men working in female prisons and vice versa. | |||
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"Shes a men so should be in male prison she prob would love it there anyway The idjits are waking up now Just expressing my opinion hun Why do you think she would love it in a male prison? Ill let you figure that out for yourself "No, why would she? I'd love to hear more of your opinions. | |||
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"If I'm going to prison... I'd rather go a female one myself
This is the point. Absolutely any male could just say "but I'm transgender", so the courts have to follow procedures to protect existing inmates. There is precedence which is why she should have taken care to prevent this from happening, but she made the choice not to.
Fair point. I imagine if she was moved to a female prison she would still be segregated for safety of her and others.
If I was sent to prison after living as a woman but not operated on, I would expect to go to a male prison.
I would then have to decide if I was going to revert to male for safety or continue as a woman and hope I was kept safe in segregation.
She doesn't have that option. She is clearly female and can't hide it.
She poses no more of a risk to the other inmates in a female prison than any other female does.
Just heard they will be talking about this on radio 2 after the news. . Everyone is saying she is no problem for female prisoners but what about the female prison officers she was born a man operations or not the genetics of males make physically stronger than women it would be easier for her to over power a female guard in my opinion"If she had undergone surgery (which she hasn't) and she had the legal documents to prove that she was female, then your objection (which is incorrect anyway) would not carry any weight Your objection is incorrect because if she had undergone surgery, then, after a number of years, she would no longer have the strength of a male as her body would no longer have the male hormone. This is what the International Olympic Committee has decided (whether you agree with them or not) and they should know better as competitive sport is segregated for male and female athletes since males generally are stronger than females | |||
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"Shes a men so should be in male prison she prob would love it there anyway The idjits are waking up now Just expressing my opinion hun Why do you think she would love it in a male prison? Ill let you figure that out for yourself
No, why would she? I'd love to hear more of your opinions. " | |||
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"Shes a men so should be in male prison she prob would love it there anyway The idjits are waking up now Just expressing my opinion hun Why do you think she would love it in a male prison? Ill let you figure that out for yourself "Nope I really can't I'm a woman and I can't think of anything worse than being banged up with a load of sex starved criminals, the though of being abused and raped on a regular basis fills me with fear So please tell me why you think she's love it in there, I'm genuinely curious | |||
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"Shes a men so should be in male prison she prob would love it there anyway The idjits are waking up now Just expressing my opinion hun Why do you think she would love it in a male prison? Nevermind.. Ill let you figure that out for yourself
Nope I really can't
I'm a woman and I can't think of anything worse than being banged up with a load of sex starved criminals, the though of being abused and raped on a regular basis fills me with fear
So please tell me why you think she's love it in there, I'm genuinely curious
"Nevermind... | |||
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"Shes a men so should be in male prison she prob would love it there anyway The idjits are waking up now Just expressing my opinion hun Why do you think she would love it in a male prison? Nevermind.. Ill let you figure that out for yourself
Nope I really can't
I'm a woman and I can't think of anything worse than being banged up with a load of sex starved criminals, the though of being abused and raped on a regular basis fills me with fear
So please tell me why you think she's love it in there, I'm genuinely curious
Nevermind..."You do know these porn's where women are gang raped in prisons and enjoy it aren't documentaries don't you | |||
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"Not being vague or shallow but if tara hudson still has a penis and balls the person should be in a male prison" Agree | |||
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"Shes a men so should be in male prison she prob would love it there anyway The idjits are waking up now Just expressing my opinion hun Why do you think she would love it in a male prison? Nevermind.. Ill let you figure that out for yourself
Nope I really can't
I'm a woman and I can't think of anything worse than being banged up with a load of sex starved criminals, the though of being abused and raped on a regular basis fills me with fear
So please tell me why you think she's love it in there, I'm genuinely curious
Nevermind..."But I do mind; I am a woman and I would not want to be locked up in a male prison? Why do you think she would like it? Or are you suggesting that women want this; is this one of your adolescent fantasies | |||
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"Not being vague or shallow but if tara hudson still has a penis and balls the person should be in a male prison" As I explain above - it is not that simple. 'Gender' is not the same thing as 'sex'. Bottom surgery is not simple. It is a major physical undertaking that many transgender individuals decide not to go ahead with. It's a massive stress on the body. There is the possibility of rejection, infection, death. After hormones have ravaged your body to the point where it is something unrecognisable, you might simply decide that enough is enough and you can't take anymore. Equally you might just need a few years breather - which is quite possibly the case with this very, very young individual. | |||
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"Josie...your a woman shes not..she has male genitals and on the paper she is still a man" Does she still have male genitals! I can't find anything that says eitehr way | |||
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"Josie...your a woman shes not..she has male genitals and on the paper she is still a man Does she still have male genitals! I can't find anything that says eitehr way" She has not yet had full bottom surgery. Her mother said it in an interview. | |||
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"Josie...your a woman shes not..she has male genitals and on the paper she is still a man" I hear what you are saying; and everyone is a little unsure But please have some compassion; as an earlier poster said, she could be in the middle of changing gender. I don't think it happens overnight She did bad; an assault is not justified and if convicted, she should be punished. If I carried out that assault, I too will be locked up but in a woman's prison. It will be horrible but after a few weeks I will be released and will have learnt my lesson She could get raped, beaten up to within an inch of her life and she may end up committing suicide (I am quoting this from a previous poster). Do you still think that just because she still has male genitals and paperwork which identifies her as male, this is a fair outcome? Forget about her for a moment. Do you think that it is a fair outcome for any man? | |||
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"Josie...your a woman shes not..she has male genitals and on the paper she is still a man" It's not that simple though.
But I'd guess your opinion is probably a fairly similar opinion to lots of people who just don't understand. Don't get me wrong, I'm not slating you personally (although I do think your attempt at humour was in pretty poor taste) but I expect that there are a great many people who view it in such black and white terms when, in fact, it couldn't be more of a grey area if it tried.
Ultimately, for me there's a person involved and whether she's a woman or a man, as a human being, that person has a basic human right to be safe. | |||
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"Josie...your a woman shes not..she has male genitals and on the paper she is still a man" Still doesn't give any answers as to why she would apparently "love it"... | |||
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"I'm in two minds over this. Surely she shouldn't have committed the assault crime in the first place.
Exactly."I'm with you on this one | |||
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"Josie...your a woman shes not..she has male genitals and on the paper she is still a man Still doesn't give any answers as to why she would apparently "love it"..." | |||
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"I'm in two minds over this. Surely she shouldn't have committed the assault crime in the first place. "Yes, but her punishment is for loss of her liberty. Being in a male prison could result in her being raped etc, and emotional/psychological trauma. I don't know the legal background, but a pragmatic approach should have been taken, allowing her to be imprisoned in a place appropriate to her gender. | |||
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"Josie...your a woman shes not..she has male genitals and on the paper she is still a man" read all the posts! 'on the paper' she is medicaly certified as female, has lived for over 2 years as a female...this is the legal criteria as has been said earlier..it is not compulsory to own a passport in this country so its pretty stupid to use that as a reason identify her as a man. | |||
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"Josie i understand your view and see where you are going. I dont think its fully fair and right but technicaly its the law. Why not make transgender prisons" I agree with you; a transgender prison (and just the one would be enough) might be one of the solutions for people sort of in-between genders. Once they are the gender they should be, then they take their chances in the correct prison Also, as a civilised society, we could make provisions in existing prisons I don't know how many people there are at any given point in time who are in the middle of changing gender but I suspect that this number cannot be more than a few hundred. Again, I don't know what percentage of people get convicted of crimes but if it was 2%, then 2% of say one thousand would just be 20 people | |||
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"Josie...your a woman shes not..she has male genitals and on the paper she is still a man read all the posts! 'on the paper' she is medicaly certified as female, has lived for over 2 years as a female...this is the legal criteria as has been said earlier..it is not compulsory to own a passport in this country so its pretty stupid to use that as a reason identify her as a man." She could be physical too strong to be in womans prison and maybe women wouldnt feel comfortable with a transgender being with them and maybe girls would fear of being raped as it has male genitalia | |||
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"Josie i understand your view and see where you are going. I dont think its fully fair and right but technicaly its the law. Why not make transgender prisons I agree with you; a transgender prison (and just the one would be enough) might be one of the solutions for people sort of in-between genders. Once they are the gender they should be, then they take their chances in the correct prison Also, as a civilised society, we could make provisions in existing prisons I don't know how many people there are at any given point in time who are in the middle of changing gender but I suspect that this number cannot be more than a few hundred. Again, I don't know what percentage of people get convicted of crimes but if it was 2%, then 2% of say one thousand would just be 20 people" Or at least put all transgenders in one cell | |||
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"Josie...your a woman shes not..she has male genitals and on the paper she is still a man read all the posts! 'on the paper' she is medicaly certified as female, has lived for over 2 years as a female...this is the legal criteria as has been said earlier..it is not compulsory to own a passport in this country so its pretty stupid to use that as a reason identify her as a man. She could be physical too strong to be in womans prison and maybe women wouldnt feel comfortable with a transgender being with them and maybe girls would fear of being raped as it has male genitalia" it | |||
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"Another example for our sensationalist media. She has a Penis and is in no danger. " Sorry but how is having a penis saving her from any danger. It is a penis, not a samurai sword Or have I misunderstood your comment; if I have then I apologise | |||
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"Shes a men so should be in male prison she prob would love it there anyway" That's so offensive and insensitive - how would you like it if you were incarcerated somewhere, where you could be raped and violently beaten without mercy? I'm assuming that you wouldn't like it, so there's no more reason to express that she would either. Unless you are implying that her gender is somehow less than human, and so the case of humane treatment doesn't apply to her, or you if you were in the same situation. | |||
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"Shes a men so should be in male prison she prob would love it there anyway That's so offensive and insensitive - how would you like it if you were incarcerated somewhere, where you could be raped and violently beaten without mercy? I'm assuming that you wouldn't like it, so there's no more reason to express that she would either. Unless you are implying that her gender is somehow less than human, and so the case of humane treatment doesn't apply to her, or you if you were in the same situation." I would actually love it in female prison | |||
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"Josie...your a woman shes not..she has male genitals and on the paper she is still a man read all the posts! 'on the paper' she is medicaly certified as female, has lived for over 2 years as a female...this is the legal criteria as has been said earlier..it is not compulsory to own a passport in this country so its pretty stupid to use that as a reason identify her as a man. She could be physical too strong to be in womans prison and maybe women wouldnt feel comfortable with a transgender being with them and maybe girls would fear of being raped as it has male genitalia" This is a person that you're talking about, not an 'it'. Her gender is female, so the word 'she' would be appropriate. | |||
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" She could be physical too strong to be in womans prison and maybe women wouldnt feel comfortable with a transgender being with them and maybe girls would fear of being raped as it has male genitalia" It?!
That's half the problem. Too many people are ill informed and closed minded. To refer to someone as 'it' when she's clearly chosen to become a woman is terribly disrespectful. | |||
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"Shes a men so should be in male prison she prob would love it there anyway That's so offensive and insensitive - how would you like it if you were incarcerated somewhere, where you could be raped and violently beaten without mercy? I'm assuming that you wouldn't like it, so there's no more reason to express that she would either. Unless you are implying that her gender is somehow less than human, and so the case of humane treatment doesn't apply to her, or you if you were in the same situation. I would actually love it in female prison" why would you love it? | |||
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"Josie...your a woman shes not..she has male genitals and on the paper she is still a man read all the posts! 'on the paper' she is medicaly certified as female, has lived for over 2 years as a female...this is the legal criteria as has been said earlier..it is not compulsory to own a passport in this country so its pretty stupid to use that as a reason identify her as a man. She could be physical too strong to be in womans prison and maybe women wouldnt feel comfortable with a transgender being with them and maybe girls would fear of being raped as it has male genitalia This is a person that you're talking about, not an 'it'. Her gender is female, so the word 'she' would be appropriate." Gender is not female its transgender. Transgender will never ever be female | |||
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"We need a transgender prison. For such, in between cases; yes At more expense to the tax payer of course ! Are the other prisons built and maintained by IBM? Excuse my ignorance,what's IBM ? Sorry, I was just trying to say that all prisons are maintained by the tax payer and none by the private sector. So to build one or two prisons for inmates who identify as male but have the anatomy and legal recognintion as female or vice versa may be a possible solution for such cases Whilst I agree that people who are convicted of a crime should be sent to prison and no leniency should be shown to them just because they are 'gender-indeterminate' (I can't think of a better phrase right now), we need to protect them from the heightened violence and abuse they would face in the 'wrong' gender prison IBM stands for International Business Machines; a US multinational which designed and manufactured mainframe computers" I know what IBM,international businesses machines is,I thought maybe there was another IBM that built prisons,thus I didnt understand IBM in relation to the thread. The tax payer can't be expected to fund the building of separate prisons for trans gendered inmates as their are so few of them,in relation to male or female inmates. The country needs more prisons yes,the current system is full to overflowing,with many criminals avoiding custodial sentences because of the shortage of prisons,but to build prisons purely for the trans gendered would be a futile exercise of spending,purely because their numbers are so few. | |||
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"If he was born male than a mens prison it is. Quite simple to me. Dont really see the problem or issue." | |||
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"Shes a men so should be in male prison she prob would love it there anyway That's so offensive and insensitive - how would you like it if you were incarcerated somewhere, where you could be raped and violently beaten without mercy? I'm assuming that you wouldn't like it, so there's no more reason to express that she would either. Unless you are implying that her gender is somehow less than human, and so the case of humane treatment doesn't apply to her, or you if you were in the same situation. I would actually love it in female prison" That would be a preference - and this luxury is being denied to her. You probably would not love being in any prison or incarcerated somewhere where others - of whatever gender- may rape and abuse you. Rape is not akin to the sexual pleasure that most of us love. It is a grotesque aspect of life that some of us have had attempted or committed upon us and it is absolutely vile. Those suggesting that it is acceptable for a person to placed somewhere where rape is likely to occur are really scraping the barrel, and your empathy seems to be absent. Spare a thought for someone who may be reading this who has had attempted or actual rape occur in their lives, and how they may be feeling. | |||
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" She could be physical too strong to be in womans prison and maybe women wouldnt feel comfortable with a transgender being with them and maybe girls would fear of being raped as it has male genitalia It?!
That's half the problem. Too many people are ill informed and closed minded. To refer to someone as 'it' when she's clearly chosen to become a woman is terribly disrespectful. "
That ("it") is meant to dehumanise. I too have been guilty of doing exactly that but am hopefully becoming wiser (or at least less stupid) as I get older
If someone is unsure then they can refer to her as "they" or "them". That is how one communicates in writing where one is unsure of unaware of the correct gender. At least, that is what I was taught | |||
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"Josie...your a woman shes not..she has male genitals and on the paper she is still a man read all the posts! 'on the paper' she is medicaly certified as female, has lived for over 2 years as a female...this is the legal criteria as has been said earlier..it is not compulsory to own a passport in this country so its pretty stupid to use that as a reason identify her as a man. She could be physical too strong to be in womans prison and maybe women wouldnt feel comfortable with a transgender being with them and maybe girls would fear of being raped as it has male genitalia This is a person that you're talking about, not an 'it'. Her gender is female, so the word 'she' would be appropriate. Gender is not female its transgender. Transgender will never ever be female" maybe in your ill informed and bigoted opinion, but that doesn't make you right,thankfully! | |||
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