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Language please
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"I can't bare my kids being called names, yes they have autism; yes they are 'different' but they are still very much people, with feelings. My elder brother and sister also have autism, for years my aunt called them a name that is meant only for dogs, I can't even say it, it was hurtful and how my parents never pulled her up on it I will never ever know. To me they are my kids " It's not a disability Its a different ability...I'd be disgusted to witness name calling at such a level! You're kids should be very proud of you | |||
-Courtney | |||
"One word I have a problem with is Retard, the word originates from the US as an official word for people with Autism, and overtime has become an insult to people who are not " mentally retarded " or Autistic." No it doesn't, it's from the Latin "retardare" meaning to make slow, delay, keep back, hinder. I get what you're saying though, but language is a strange and ever changing thing, and so words take on different meanings as society evolves. The word "Gay" is a strange one ...it's gone from happy to homosexual, and now it's a used to describe anything naff. | |||
"No not words it's the way they are used and then intention behind them. I used to work with someone who lost her shit if you used the word 'should'. Chill your beans was always my response. I can see why retard would bother you though OP but bear in mind when words are heard and used alot people don't really know the meaning or even mean the meaning.." It's the fact that it means what it does, the same as " mong" is referring to people with Downs syndrome, and is used as an insult, to be honest I used to use that word years ago, until I realised it's meaning, like you say, not everyone realises the connection. | |||
"Words don't bother me. They only have the meaning we give them. I don't care if people use the word "retard," for example. If it is meant as a general insult, then it doesn't matter to me. If it is meant as an insult to autistic people, then anyone who would say it is an ass regardless of the verbiage. The choice of words just makes them more apparent.
-Courtney"But it is an insult to Autistic people, because you are saying someone is like them by calling that person a " retard", as if the Autists are something bad. There is a campaign to raise awareness about this in the US, if you google the word Retard and look at images from the US, you can see why. | |||
"I can't bare my kids being called names, yes they have autism; yes they are 'different' but they are still very much people, with feelings. My elder brother and sister also have autism, for years my aunt called them a name that is meant only for dogs, I can't even say it, it was hurtful and how my parents never pulled her up on it I will never ever know. To me they are my kids It's not a disability Its a different ability...I'd be disgusted to witness name calling at such a level! You're kids should be very proud of you " Thank you, but it's me that is proud of them; every single day, my eldest son had gone from being a shy little boy with so many emotional difficulties and struggling at school, now he is top of his class, student leader and has some solid friends, who understand his 'differences' When myself and my ex was first thrown into this new world of doctors, testing etc, someone quoted me a poem to read, called welcome to Holland, such a beautiful poem about a holiday to Italy, you get all the guidebooks and learn everything, you get on the plane and then you end up in Holland, where you know nothing, no books etc, which summed up how we were feeling but I would never change our Holland for the world X | |||
"Words don't bother me. They only have the meaning we give them. I don't care if people use the word "retard," for example. If it is meant as a general insult, then it doesn't matter to me. If it is meant as an insult to autistic people, then anyone who would say it is an ass regardless of the verbiage. The choice of words just makes them more apparent.
-Courtney
But it is an insult to Autistic people, because you are saying someone is like them by calling that person a " retard", as if the Autists are something bad. There is a campaign to raise awareness about this in the US, if you google the word Retard and look at images from the US, you can see why. "I don't need to Google it. I'm from the US so I'm aware of the discussion around the word. My point is that raising awareness means people who use it generally are not using it as an insult to autistic people. If you need to raise awareness, then the meaning isn't there in the first place, and neither is the insult. That's how I see it, anyway. As I said, the words only hold the meaning we give them. -Courtney | |||
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"I can't bare my kids being called names, yes they have autism; yes they are 'different' but they are still very much people, with feelings. My elder brother and sister also have autism, for years my aunt called them a name that is meant only for dogs, I can't even say it, it was hurtful and how my parents never pulled her up on it I will never ever know. To me they are my kids It's not a disability Its a different ability...I'd be disgusted to witness name calling at such a level! You're kids should be very proud of you Thank you, but it's me that is proud of them; every single day, my eldest son had gone from being a shy little boy with so many emotional difficulties and struggling at school, now he is top of his class, student leader and has some solid friends, who understand his 'differences' When myself and my ex was first thrown into this new world of doctors, testing etc, someone quoted me a poem to read, called welcome to Holland, such a beautiful poem about a holiday to Italy, you get all the guidebooks and learn everything, you get on the plane and then you end up in Holland, where you know nothing, no books etc, which summed up how we were feeling but I would never change our Holland for the world X" Great stuff, I remember that poem, when you say you wouldn't change it for the world, I feel the same, people have ask if I could would I remove the Autism from my boys, my answer is that they would not be my boys then, they would be somebody else. | |||
"I can't bare my kids being called names, yes they have autism; yes they are 'different' but they are still very much people, with feelings. My elder brother and sister also have autism, for years my aunt called them a name that is meant only for dogs, I can't even say it, it was hurtful and how my parents never pulled her up on it I will never ever know. To me they are my kids It's not a disability Its a different ability...I'd be disgusted to witness name calling at such a level! You're kids should be very proud of you Thank you, but it's me that is proud of them; every single day, my eldest son had gone from being a shy little boy with so many emotional difficulties and struggling at school, now he is top of his class, student leader and has some solid friends, who understand his 'differences' When myself and my ex was first thrown into this new world of doctors, testing etc, someone quoted me a poem to read, called welcome to Holland, such a beautiful poem about a holiday to Italy, you get all the guidebooks and learn everything, you get on the plane and then you end up in Holland, where you know nothing, no books etc, which summed up how we were feeling but I would never change our Holland for the world X Great stuff, I remember that poem, when you say you wouldn't change it for the world, I feel the same, people have ask if I could would I remove the Autism from my boys, my answer is that they would not be my boys then, they would be somebody else. " I feel the same, totally they are who they are, quirks and all, times can be tough but I wouldn't change the rare kisses; the rare hugs, the quirky things we all do x | |||
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"Words don't bother me. They only have the meaning we give them. I don't care if people use the word "retard," for example. If it is meant as a general insult, then it doesn't matter to me. If it is meant as an insult to autistic people, then anyone who would say it is an ass regardless of the verbiage. The choice of words just makes them more apparent.
-Courtney
But it is an insult to Autistic people, because you are saying someone is like them by calling that person a " retard", as if the Autists are something bad. There is a campaign to raise awareness about this in the US, if you google the word Retard and look at images from the US, you can see why.
I don't need to Google it. I'm from the US so I'm aware of the discussion around the word.
My point is that raising awareness means people who use it generally are not using it as an insult to autistic people. If you need to raise awareness, then the meaning isn't there in the first place, and neither is the insult. That's how I see it, anyway. As I said, the words only hold the meaning we give them.
-Courtney"but the meaning behind that word is to insult somebody by saying they are stupid, because of the comparison to Autistic people, and so calling Autists stupid. So someone in the US especially, an Autist who understands the word and meaning, and the context of it's use as an insult, would be deeply hurt, The Klu Klux Klan used to use it, when they would speak of ridding the US of anyone with mental disabilities. | |||
"I can't bare my kids being called names, yes they have autism; yes they are 'different' but they are still very much people, with feelings. My elder brother and sister also have autism, for years my aunt called them a name that is meant only for dogs, I can't even say it, it was hurtful and how my parents never pulled her up on it I will never ever know. To me they are my kids It's not a disability Its a different ability...I'd be disgusted to witness name calling at such a level! You're kids should be very proud of you Thank you, but it's me that is proud of them; every single day, my eldest son had gone from being a shy little boy with so many emotional difficulties and struggling at school, now he is top of his class, student leader and has some solid friends, who understand his 'differences' When myself and my ex was first thrown into this new world of doctors, testing etc, someone quoted me a poem to read, called welcome to Holland, such a beautiful poem about a holiday to Italy, you get all the guidebooks and learn everything, you get on the plane and then you end up in Holland, where you know nothing, no books etc, which summed up how we were feeling but I would never change our Holland for the world X Great stuff, I remember that poem, when you say you wouldn't change it for the world, I feel the same, people have ask if I could would I remove the Autism from my boys, my answer is that they would not be my boys then, they would be somebody else. I feel the same, totally they are who they are, quirks and all, times can be tough but I wouldn't change the rare kisses; the rare hugs, the quirky things we all do x" There is no hug or kiss or cuddle like the ones we rarely get from our Autistic kids, they mean so much. I always feel the problem with having Autistic kids is other people, in my experience. | |||
"Words don't bother me. They only have the meaning we give them. I don't care if people use the word "retard," for example. If it is meant as a general insult, then it doesn't matter to me. If it is meant as an insult to autistic people, then anyone who would say it is an ass regardless of the verbiage. The choice of words just makes them more apparent.
-Courtney
But it is an insult to Autistic people, because you are saying someone is like them by calling that person a " retard", as if the Autists are something bad. There is a campaign to raise awareness about this in the US, if you google the word Retard and look at images from the US, you can see why.
I don't need to Google it. I'm from the US so I'm aware of the discussion around the word.
My point is that raising awareness means people who use it generally are not using it as an insult to autistic people. If you need to raise awareness, then the meaning isn't there in the first place, and neither is the insult. That's how I see it, anyway. As I said, the words only hold the meaning we give them.
-Courtney
but the meaning behind that word is to insult somebody by saying they are stupid, because of the comparison to Autistic people, and so calling Autists stupid. So someone in the US especially, an Autist who understands the word and meaning, and the context of it's use as an insult, would be deeply hurt, The Klu Klux Klan used to use it, when they would speak of ridding the US of anyone with mental disabilities."But there isn't a comparison for most Americans. It is just a word with a meaning. The historical meaning is there, but the comparison with autism isn't known by most, and so isn't meant to be insulting. As I said, if it were apparent, they wouldn't need to raise awareness. I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. -Courtney | |||
"Words don't bother me. They only have the meaning we give them. I don't care if people use the word "retard," for example. If it is meant as a general insult, then it doesn't matter to me. If it is meant as an insult to autistic people, then anyone who would say it is an ass regardless of the verbiage. The choice of words just makes them more apparent.
-Courtney
But it is an insult to Autistic people, because you are saying someone is like them by calling that person a " retard", as if the Autists are something bad. There is a campaign to raise awareness about this in the US, if you google the word Retard and look at images from the US, you can see why.
I don't need to Google it. I'm from the US so I'm aware of the discussion around the word.
My point is that raising awareness means people who use it generally are not using it as an insult to autistic people. If you need to raise awareness, then the meaning isn't there in the first place, and neither is the insult. That's how I see it, anyway. As I said, the words only hold the meaning we give them.
-Courtney
but the meaning behind that word is to insult somebody by saying they are stupid, because of the comparison to Autistic people, and so calling Autists stupid. So someone in the US especially, an Autist who understands the word and meaning, and the context of it's use as an insult, would be deeply hurt, The Klu Klux Klan used to use it, when they would speak of ridding the US of anyone with mental disabilities.
But there isn't a comparison for most Americans. It is just a word with a meaning. The historical meaning is there, but the comparison with autism isn't known by most, and so isn't meant to be insulting.
As I said, if it were apparent, they wouldn't need to raise awareness.
I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.
-Courtney"But it is apparent to a lot of people, they use it as an insult because it denotes somebody with mental disabilities, hence using it as an insult towards someone without mental disabilities. | |||
"I grew up in the US and 'retard' was just a word. Using it was harmless as, as kids, we didn't know it might be offensive. A few years ago a daughter of a good friend of mine said they weren't allowed to use words like that at school any more. So "Special" became a derogatory term. It's human nature unfortunately to label people and trying to police against it can make it worse sometimes I think." But what if it became popular to use your Daughter as an insult, would you not be upset? | |||
"But what if it became popular to use your Daughter as an insult, would you not be upset?" Not sure what you mean?  | |||
"But what if it became popular to use your Daughter as an insult, would you not be upset? Not sure what you mean? "When people use the word Retard, they are saying that a person they dislike is like my sons, I'm just trying to put it into context. | |||
"Words don't bother me. They only have the meaning we give them. I don't care if people use the word "retard," for example. If it is meant as a general insult, then it doesn't matter to me. If it is meant as an insult to autistic people, then anyone who would say it is an ass regardless of the verbiage. The choice of words just makes them more apparent.
-Courtney
But it is an insult to Autistic people, because you are saying someone is like them by calling that person a " retard", as if the Autists are something bad. There is a campaign to raise awareness about this in the US, if you google the word Retard and look at images from the US, you can see why.
I don't need to Google it. I'm from the US so I'm aware of the discussion around the word.
My point is that raising awareness means people who use it generally are not using it as an insult to autistic people. If you need to raise awareness, then the meaning isn't there in the first place, and neither is the insult. That's how I see it, anyway. As I said, the words only hold the meaning we give them.
-Courtney
but the meaning behind that word is to insult somebody by saying they are stupid, because of the comparison to Autistic people, and so calling Autists stupid. So someone in the US especially, an Autist who understands the word and meaning, and the context of it's use as an insult, would be deeply hurt, The Klu Klux Klan used to use it, when they would speak of ridding the US of anyone with mental disabilities.
But there isn't a comparison for most Americans. It is just a word with a meaning. The historical meaning is there, but the comparison with autism isn't known by most, and so isn't meant to be insulting.
As I said, if it were apparent, they wouldn't need to raise awareness.
I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.
-Courtney
But it is apparent to a lot of people, they use it as an insult because it denotes somebody with mental disabilities, hence using it as an insult towards someone without mental disabilities."We are talking in circles. As someone on the thread who was brought up in the US pointed out, it doesn't have that connotation when you learn it from an early age as just another word. The meanings of words change, as I believe this one is doing. I'm not defending the word. I get that it's origins are bad. I'm disputing the insult when none is meant. Words don't have intrinsic meaning. They are given meaning. That's is my point. I think we just disagree on our philosophies of language and are running in circles with one another. -Courtney | |||
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"but the meaning behind that word is to insult somebody by saying they are stupid, because of the comparison to Autistic people, and so calling Autists stupid. So someone in the US especially, an Autist who understands the word and meaning, and the context of it's use as an insult, would be deeply hurt, The Klu Klux Klan used to use it, when they would speak of ridding the US of anyone with mental disabilities." I can't verify whether you're being historically accurate here, but we're not in the US, and they do things strangely over there. Anyway, I've got dyspraxia and dyslexia, which although not autism spectrum disorder, does put me in a similar category. But I've also got an IQ of 146 ... so they can call me all the retards under the sun and they'd still be wrong.  | |||
"Words don't bother me. They only have the meaning we give them. I don't care if people use the word "retard," for example. If it is meant as a general insult, then it doesn't matter to me. If it is meant as an insult to autistic people, then anyone who would say it is an ass regardless of the verbiage. The choice of words just makes them more apparent.
-Courtney
But it is an insult to Autistic people, because you are saying someone is like them by calling that person a " retard", as if the Autists are something bad. There is a campaign to raise awareness about this in the US, if you google the word Retard and look at images from the US, you can see why.
I don't need to Google it. I'm from the US so I'm aware of the discussion around the word.
My point is that raising awareness means people who use it generally are not using it as an insult to autistic people. If you need to raise awareness, then the meaning isn't there in the first place, and neither is the insult. That's how I see it, anyway. As I said, the words only hold the meaning we give them.
-Courtney
but the meaning behind that word is to insult somebody by saying they are stupid, because of the comparison to Autistic people, and so calling Autists stupid. So someone in the US especially, an Autist who understands the word and meaning, and the context of it's use as an insult, would be deeply hurt, The Klu Klux Klan used to use it, when they would speak of ridding the US of anyone with mental disabilities.
But there isn't a comparison for most Americans. It is just a word with a meaning. The historical meaning is there, but the comparison with autism isn't known by most, and so isn't meant to be insulting.
As I said, if it were apparent, they wouldn't need to raise awareness.
I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.
-Courtney
But it is apparent to a lot of people, they use it as an insult because it denotes somebody with mental disabilities, hence using it as an insult towards someone without mental disabilities.
We are talking in circles. As someone on the thread who was brought up in the US pointed out, it doesn't have that connotation when you learn it from an early age as just another word. The meanings of words change, as I believe this one is doing.
I'm not defending the word. I get that it's origins are bad. I'm disputing the insult when none is meant. Words don't have intrinsic meaning. They are given meaning. That's is my point.
I think we just disagree on our philosophies of language and are running in circles with one another.
-Courtney"But if we disagree, we should investigate until finding the truth. The origins of the word are not negative, it's the use as an insult that's negative, and even if you were born in the US, it makes no difference, In Autism circles world wide the word is challenged because of the negativity it encourages towards people. | |||
"Words are words......harmless noises that come out when we move our lips. The intent behind them is what hurts. A good friend of mine greets me in the pub with a barrage of insults, followed by a man hug or a handshake. The same guy in the Same pub with the same words could start a pub brawl with a slightly different intent behind them. Although I do think people hid behind the word "banter" to mask malicious intent. " But I'm not speaking about words themselves, I'm speaking about their usage, they are very powerful tools, look at politicians and media use of words. | |||
"but the meaning behind that word is to insult somebody by saying they are stupid, because of the comparison to Autistic people, and so calling Autists stupid. So someone in the US especially, an Autist who understands the word and meaning, and the context of it's use as an insult, would be deeply hurt, The Klu Klux Klan used to use it, when they would speak of ridding the US of anyone with mental disabilities.I can't verify whether you're being historically accurate here, but we're not in the US, and they do things strangely over there. Anyway, I've got dyspraxia and dyslexia, which although not autism spectrum disorder, does put me in a similar category. But I've also got an IQ of 146 ... so they can call me all the retards under the sun and they'd still be wrong. "But it's not about calling the Autists themselves the name it's the name that was originally used as an official term for Autists being used as an insult. The term has the same background as it does here in the UK as it does in the US. | |||
"Words don't bother me. They only have the meaning we give them. I don't care if people use the word "retard," for example. If it is meant as a general insult, then it doesn't matter to me. If it is meant as an insult to autistic people, then anyone who would say it is an ass regardless of the verbiage. The choice of words just makes them more apparent.
-Courtney
But it is an insult to Autistic people, because you are saying someone is like them by calling that person a " retard", as if the Autists are something bad. There is a campaign to raise awareness about this in the US, if you google the word Retard and look at images from the US, you can see why.
I don't need to Google it. I'm from the US so I'm aware of the discussion around the word.
My point is that raising awareness means people who use it generally are not using it as an insult to autistic people. If you need to raise awareness, then the meaning isn't there in the first place, and neither is the insult. That's how I see it, anyway. As I said, the words only hold the meaning we give them.
-Courtney
but the meaning behind that word is to insult somebody by saying they are stupid, because of the comparison to Autistic people, and so calling Autists stupid. So someone in the US especially, an Autist who understands the word and meaning, and the context of it's use as an insult, would be deeply hurt, The Klu Klux Klan used to use it, when they would speak of ridding the US of anyone with mental disabilities.
But there isn't a comparison for most Americans. It is just a word with a meaning. The historical meaning is there, but the comparison with autism isn't known by most, and so isn't meant to be insulting.
As I said, if it were apparent, they wouldn't need to raise awareness.
I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.
-Courtney
But it is apparent to a lot of people, they use it as an insult because it denotes somebody with mental disabilities, hence using it as an insult towards someone without mental disabilities.
We are talking in circles. As someone on the thread who was brought up in the US pointed out, it doesn't have that connotation when you learn it from an early age as just another word. The meanings of words change, as I believe this one is doing.
I'm not defending the word. I get that it's origins are bad. I'm disputing the insult when none is meant. Words don't have intrinsic meaning. They are given meaning. That's is my point.
I think we just disagree on our philosophies of language and are running in circles with one another.
-Courtney
But if we disagree, we should investigate until finding the truth. The origins of the word are not negative, it's the use as an insult that's negative, and even if you were born in the US, it makes no difference, In Autism circles world wide the word is challenged because of the negativity it encourages towards people."It certainly does make a difference what culture someone has. That is my point about meaning not being intrinsic. If I'm taught that retard just means that someone is acting silly, without any knowledge of its comparison to autism, then that comparison ceases to matter with regards to my use of the word. That particular meaning is missing. I can name any number of other words that have the same type of genesis (spastic, for example). And a lot of that is cultural. That goes back to my original post. If you say the word with the comparison in mind, then you are an ass. But that won't change by getting rid of the word. And you're right that we should investigate disagreements, but it's hard typing this out on my phone and I'm tired. So I'm out.
-Courtney | |||
"Are some of us too touchy about the used of words, the other day I ranted off about something, then felt like I had overreacted. But I wonder where certain phrases and use of certain words lead us as a society. A good example is Katie Hopkins use of the word " Cockroaches" when referring to refugees, this dehumanises the refugees, and throughout history, dehumanising a people has been used as an excuse for murder, torture, neglect and ethnic cleansing. So have we good reason to be concerned by such use of language. One word I have a problem with is Retard, the word originates from the US as an official word for people with Autism, and overtime has become an insult to people who are not " mentally retarded " or Autistic. Should people with Autism or any other kind of condition be used as insults, and do the people using the words realise how upsetting it is to people with Autism and their families. I personally don't like someone I love and care for being seen as something bad to be used as an insult. Please try to keep this sensible and discuss together without attacking each other, I will try not to get to high rate myself. Thank you. " From someone who said they felt sick because I dared asked if someone was autistic, I find your thread hypocritical . I wasn't rude, I was merely trying to understand. It was obvious that the person saw language in a different way to most. Of course some saw it as me being offensive, but some are scared of anything being questioned when an obvious autistic question is asked In future, I'll just call them a fucking freak otherwise everyone will just feel sick. | |||
"Are some of us too touchy about the used of words, the other day I ranted off about something, then felt like I had overreacted. But I wonder where certain phrases and use of certain words lead us as a society. A good example is Katie Hopkins use of the word " Cockroaches" when referring to refugees, this dehumanises the refugees, and throughout history, dehumanising a people has been used as an excuse for murder, torture, neglect and ethnic cleansing. So have we good reason to be concerned by such use of language. One word I have a problem with is Retard, the word originates from the US as an official word for people with Autism, and overtime has become an insult to people who are not " mentally retarded " or Autistic. Should people with Autism or any other kind of condition be used as insults, and do the people using the words realise how upsetting it is to people with Autism and their families. I personally don't like someone I love and care for being seen as something bad to be used as an insult. Please try to keep this sensible and discuss together without attacking each other, I will try not to get to high rate myself. Thank you. From someone who said they felt sick because I dared asked if someone was autistic, I find your thread hypocritical . I wasn't rude, I was merely trying to understand. It was obvious that the person saw language in a different way to most. Of course some saw it as me being offensive, but some are scared of anything being questioned when an obvious autistic question is asked In future, I'll just call them a fucking freak otherwise everyone will just feel sick." Why are you being like this, and was I referring to you in that thread, I put in my op that I overreacted, I had a bad day with people over my Autistic sons and wasn't in a good frame of mind, and in hindsight probably shouldn't have come onto FAB that day, there's no need for this. | |||
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"But it's not about calling the Autists themselves the name it's the name that was originally used as an official term for Autists being used as an insult. The term has the same background as it does here in the UK as it does in the US." So what's the problem? If you're autistic and get called a retard, then it's all good right? Because, if through some educational dysfunction you do indeed suffer some sort of retardation of the brain, then there's no need to be insulted is there? But, if you're not retarded and get called a retard, well that makes them look like a retard doesn't it? Are you sure you want to challenge me on this? 
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Sorry, I'm being irreverent, but I think that trying to change people's language is a bit like playing whack-a-mole... as soon as one word becomes problematic another pops up in its place.
People will always find insults for each other based on differences, often influenced by way they've been brought up ... ultimately it's all about intention rather than language and we'd all do a lot better by learning to discern this. | |||
"You had a bad day? Maybe I'm having a bad day now. " Your not understanding, re-read the op, I said I overreacted, and about ME not getting high rate, and in my reply to you I said I had a bad day regarding Autism, so probably wasn't in the right frame of mind to comment, and should have stayed off of FAB. Why are you being so defensive, I'm not having a go at you, I don't understand. | |||
"But it's not about calling the Autists themselves the name it's the name that was originally used as an official term for Autists being used as an insult. The term has the same background as it does here in the UK as it does in the US. So what's the problem? If you're autistic and get called a retard, then it's all good right? Because, if through some educational dysfunction you do indeed suffer some sort of retardation of the brain, then there's no need to be insulted is there? But, if you're not retarded and get called a retard, well that makes them look like a retard doesn't it? Are you sure you want to challenge me on this?
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Sorry, I'm being irreverent, but I think that trying to change people's language is a bit like playing whack-a-mole... as soon as one word becomes problematic another pops up in its place.
People will always find insults for each other based on differences, often influenced by way they've been brought up ... ultimately it's all about intention rather than language and we'd all do a lot better by learning to discern this."I'm not trying to change the way people talk, just looking into this with others who are interested or concerned. The phrase mentally retarded means an Autistic person who is being held back by their disability, that was the original meaning, but people use that knowingly as an insult, in other words saying someone they dislike is like an Autistic person because of their behaviour, so they are calling the Autists something bad the be used as an insult. | |||
"The phrase mentally retarded means an Autistic person who is being held back by their disability, that was the original meaning." No it was not the original meaning, I already stated that above. The word is from the Latin "retardare" and probably found it's way to Britain via France. If Americans decided to change it to an insult, then more fool us for listening to Americans. | |||
"The phrase mentally retarded means an Autistic person who is being held back by their disability, that was the original meaning. No it was not the original meaning, I already stated that above. The word is from the Latin "retardare" and probably found it's way to Britain via France. If Americans decided to change it to an insult, then more fool us for listening to Americans." I think you'll find that the American association on mental retardation introduced the term to describe people with mental disabilities, and it's now being phased out because of the use as an insult, but the connotations remain the same. | |||
" One word I have a problem with is Retard, the word originates from the US as an official word for people with Autism, " No it doesn't it's mostly french. For slow or late, as in slow or late developer when used to refer to people. But if your late for class you get a retard slip...hence why in English we have "tardy" as slang for being late. | |||
" One word I have a problem with is Retard, the word originates from the US as an official word for people with Autism, No it doesn't it's mostly french. For slow or late, as in slow or late developer when used to refer to people. But if your late for class you get a retard slip...hence why in English we have "tardy" as slang for being late. " I should have said it's usage as a term for mental disabilities, apologies. | |||
)
English is a very wide language people like the op seem to focus in on words and take them literally as one meaning when it's not there's no understanding of context when arguing with people like this though so this thread will end up mudslinging | |||
" One word I have a problem with is Retard, the word originates from the US as an official word for people with Autism, No it doesn't it's mostly french. For slow or late, as in slow or late developer when used to refer to people. But if your late for class you get a retard slip...hence why in English we have "tardy" as slang for being late. I should have said it's usage as a term for mental disabilities, apologies." It's also used a lot in engineering etc. For instance would you be offended by the phrase "the brakes retard the vehicles motion?" | |||
" The phrase mentally retarded means an Autistic person who is being held back by their disability, that was the original meaning," Source on that as I said I db out very much autism was ever referenced at the time it became associated with delayed development. Given autism as it is defined now was only "identified" in the 40's | |||
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" Look at our own community (swingers etc.) and how we have appropriated words such as "play" "swap" "bareback" "meet" etc. " Heh one of my non swinger friends is always wound up by my use of the word play or fun to describe sex, he says it's "fucking creepy" . Cause to him play is usually related to/about children and not a sexual word at all. | |||
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"I will always have a go at anyone who uses the word spac to insult someone. Fucking horrible when people say it and think it's ok as they don't know its origins. " I've got a friend with MS who calls disabled parking the "spaccy spot" and refers to her blue badge as her "spaccy badges" 
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"When I was growing up mongrels was the word used for people with downs syndrome and spastic for people with autisum, neither of those words are used today, society does change and words others find hurtful others don't it's just the way we all are. I'm not even sure special needs is the right words either as it's still a label to a person with feelings, I also fully understand the lady who is very upset over the retard word as I dislike it to , I also have a disabled son x" Mong and spastic are still widely used today especially amongst kids. | |||
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"I didn't know retarded was another word for autistic." Because it isn't | |||
"I didn't know retarded was another word for autistic. Because it isn't " Ah, I only read op, but googled the definition now. You're right | |||
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"Also if you don't like special needs as it's a "label" what would you like to be used as the official label for them/the people who work with them? " I didn't say I didn't like it, I said I wasn't sure if it's the correct words | |||
"I grew up in the US and 'retard' was just a word. Using it was harmless as, as kids, we didn't know it might be offensive. A few years ago a daughter of a good friend of mine said they weren't allowed to use words like that at school any more. So "Special" became a derogatory term. It's human nature unfortunately to label people and trying to police against it can make it worse sometimes I think."  | |||
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"Words don't bother me. They only have the meaning we give them. I don't care if people use the word "retard," for example. If it is meant as a general insult, then it doesn't matter to me. If it is meant as an insult to autistic people, then anyone who would say it is an ass regardless of the verbiage. The choice of words just makes them more apparent.
-Courtney
But it is an insult to Autistic people, because you are saying someone is like them by calling that person a " retard", as if the Autists are something bad. There is a campaign to raise awareness about this in the US, if you google the word Retard and look at images from the US, you can see why.
I don't need to Google it. I'm from the US so I'm aware of the discussion around the word.
My point is that raising awareness means people who use it generally are not using it as an insult to autistic people. If you need to raise awareness, then the meaning isn't there in the first place, and neither is the insult. That's how I see it, anyway. As I said, the words only hold the meaning we give them.
-Courtney
but the meaning behind that word is to insult somebody by saying they are stupid, because of the comparison to Autistic people, and so calling Autists stupid. So someone in the US especially, an Autist who understands the word and meaning, and the context of it's use as an insult, would be deeply hurt, The Klu Klux Klan used to use it, when they would speak of ridding the US of anyone with mental disabilities.
But there isn't a comparison for most Americans. It is just a word with a meaning. The historical meaning is there, but the comparison with autism isn't known by most, and so isn't meant to be insulting.
As I said, if it were apparent, they wouldn't need to raise awareness.
I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.
-Courtney
But it is apparent to a lot of people, they use it as an insult because it denotes somebody with mental disabilities, hence using it as an insult towards someone without mental disabilities.
We are talking in circles. As someone on the thread who was brought up in the US pointed out, it doesn't have that connotation when you learn it from an early age as just another word. The meanings of words change, as I believe this one is doing.
I'm not defending the word. I get that it's origins are bad. I'm disputing the insult when none is meant. Words don't have intrinsic meaning. They are given meaning. That's is my point.
I think we just disagree on our philosophies of language and are running in circles with one another.
-Courtney"
Words only hurt if we let them. | |||
"we live in a society where some people think its the norm to use awful degrading names and lots of children follow there peers not even understang what some words mean i used to work with special needs kids and when i took any of them around town the looks and language off some grown ups was downright disgusting and 1 day i totally lost it when a young guy and his mam screached that ugly mong should be put down grr i walked over to him and said ths gorgeous young man is gorgeous thru and thru where as you are ugly thru and thru and by thd grace of god that could have bin you and yes it felt damn good" I really find it hard to believe that anyone would scream at a child in the street that they should be put down. | |||
"No not words it's the way they are used and then intention behind them. I used to work with someone who lost her shit if you used the word 'should'. Chill your beans was always my response. I can see why retard would bother you though OP but bear in mind when words are heard and used alot people don't really know the meaning or even mean the meaning.. It's the fact that it means what it does, the same as " mong" is referring to people with Downs syndrome, and is used as an insult, to be honest I used to use that word years ago, until I realised it's meaning, like you say, not everyone realises the connection." No they don't mind has always meant ugly where I'm from. | |||
"we live in a society where some people think its the norm to use awful degrading names and lots of children follow there peers not even understang what some words mean i used to work with special needs kids and when i took any of them around town the looks and language off some grown ups was downright disgusting and 1 day i totally lost it when a young guy and his mam screached that ugly mong should be put down grr i walked over to him and said ths gorgeous young man is gorgeous thru and thru where as you are ugly thru and thru and by thd grace of god that could have bin you and yes it felt damn good I really find it hard to believe that anyone would scream at a child in the street that they should be put down. " aye well did we ever think that a British soldier would be murdered on the street in broad daylight? | |||
"I will always have a go at anyone who uses the word spac to insult someone. Fucking horrible when people say it and think it's ok as they don't know its origins. I've got a friend with MS who calls disabled parking the "spaccy spot" and refers to her blue badge as her "spaccy badges"
"I have a friend who has one hand smaller than the other, which she refers to as her spacka hand. It makes me cringe every time. I think just because I know my sister would be upset if she heard it | |||
"Also if you don't like special needs as it's a "label" what would you like to be used as the official label for them/the people who work with them? I didn't say I didn't like it, I said I wasn't sure if it's the correct words" Well I'm asking what you think are the correct words. | |||
"we live in a society where some people think its the norm to use awful degrading names and lots of children follow there peers not even understang what some words mean i used to work with special needs kids and when i took any of them around town the looks and language off some grown ups was downright disgusting and 1 day i totally lost it when a young guy and his mam screached that ugly mong should be put down grr i walked over to him and said ths gorgeous young man is gorgeous thru and thru where as you are ugly thru and thru and by thd grace of god that could have bin you and yes it felt damn good I really find it hard to believe that anyone would scream at a child in the street that they should be put down. aye well did we ever think that a British soldier would be murdered on the street in broad daylight?" Errr yeah, remember that spot of bother with the Irish through the last few decades? Police and soldiers used to have to check under their cars in the morning. | |||
"we live in a society where some people think its the norm to use awful degrading names and lots of children follow there peers not even understang what some words mean i used to work with special needs kids and when i took any of them around town the looks and language off some grown ups was downright disgusting and 1 day i totally lost it when a young guy and his mam screached that ugly mong should be put down grr i walked over to him and said ths gorgeous young man is gorgeous thru and thru where as you are ugly thru and thru and by thd grace of god that could have bin you and yes it felt damn good I really find it hard to believe that anyone would scream at a child in the street that they should be put down. aye well did we ever think that a British soldier would be murdered on the street in broad daylight? Errr yeah, remember that spot of bother with the Irish through the last few decades? Police and soldiers used to have to check under their cars in the morning." I was too young to care about that stuff, but still remember my parents reactions to the news | |||
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"I didn't know retarded was another word for autistic. Because it isn't Ah, I only read op, but googled the definition now. You're right" The word was used for people with mental disabilities, which includes Autism, that's why it's used as an insult, as comparing someone with somebody with mental disabilities, as if to say they are stupid and something bad to be likened to, hence the insult to both parties. | |||
"Words don't bother me. They only have the meaning we give them. I don't care if people use the word "retard," for example. If it is meant as a general insult, then it doesn't matter to me. If it is meant as an insult to autistic people, then anyone who would say it is an ass regardless of the verbiage. The choice of words just makes them more apparent.
-Courtney
But it is an insult to Autistic people, because you are saying someone is like them by calling that person a " retard", as if the Autists are something bad. There is a campaign to raise awareness about this in the US, if you google the word Retard and look at images from the US, you can see why.
I don't need to Google it. I'm from the US so I'm aware of the discussion around the word.
My point is that raising awareness means people who use it generally are not using it as an insult to autistic people. If you need to raise awareness, then the meaning isn't there in the first place, and neither is the insult. That's how I see it, anyway. As I said, the words only hold the meaning we give them.
-Courtney
but the meaning behind that word is to insult somebody by saying they are stupid, because of the comparison to Autistic people, and so calling Autists stupid. So someone in the US especially, an Autist who understands the word and meaning, and the context of it's use as an insult, would be deeply hurt, The Klu Klux Klan used to use it, when they would speak of ridding the US of anyone with mental disabilities.
But there isn't a comparison for most Americans. It is just a word with a meaning. The historical meaning is there, but the comparison with autism isn't known by most, and so isn't meant to be insulting.
As I said, if it were apparent, they wouldn't need to raise awareness.
I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.
-Courtney
But it is apparent to a lot of people, they use it as an insult because it denotes somebody with mental disabilities, hence using it as an insult towards someone without mental disabilities.
We are talking in circles. As someone on the thread who was brought up in the US pointed out, it doesn't have that connotation when you learn it from an early age as just another word. The meanings of words change, as I believe this one is doing.
I'm not defending the word. I get that it's origins are bad. I'm disputing the insult when none is meant. Words don't have intrinsic meaning. They are given meaning. That's is my point.
I think we just disagree on our philosophies of language and are running in circles with one another.
-Courtney
Words only hurt if we let them."How do you explain that concept to somebody with Autism? | |||
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"I didn't know retarded was another word for autistic. Because it isn't Ah, I only read op, but googled the definition now. You're right The word was used for people with mental disabilities, which includes Autism, that's why it's used as an insult, as comparing someone with somebody with mental disabilities, as if to say they are stupid and something bad to be likened to, hence the insult to both parties." . Human beings like many other animals have a certain way of sorting out pecking orders, life's a bitch but it's all we've got. I think you can possibly change awareness of actions but in the end it's very hard to change human instinct!... That's my experience through green issues anyhow | |||
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"You had a bad day? Maybe I'm having a bad day now. Your not understanding, re-read the op, I said I overreacted, and about ME not getting high rate, and in my reply to you I said I had a bad day regarding Autism, so probably wasn't in the right frame of mind to comment, and should have stayed off of FAB. Why are you being so defensive, I'm not having a go at you, I don't understand." I think she has every bloody right to feel the way she does over the completly ridiculous over reaction on the thread was everyone having a bad day, being called hater, narrow minded and told you made people feel physically sick that thread changed my opinion on so much that day
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""How do you explain that concept to somebody with Autism?" My niece said she wants to be normal,she hates not being normal. I asked my sister why she thinks she isn't normal. Someone has made her feel she isn't normal and told her what normal is. That would be my sister. She is a very intelligent child,not retarded in any way. She just does things differently and has problems with fitting in to what we call normal. If someone says retarded around her I doubt she would associate it with her autism. My sister had cerebral palsy,as I mentioned early. She was often described as mentally retarded because 90% of her brain wasn't functioning. I don't think twice when someone uses the word retard. It's an en vogue word that has replaced mong which replaced something else that replaced something else. We use the word Lenny sometimes. " what a b!oody sensible answer from someone with experience | |||
"Yes I think people are extremely oversensitive to some words me included I guess I call myself a look, fruitloop, wonky I don't care I can call myself what I like. I have more problem with people seriously overreacting to stuff than the word, phrase or terminology, they do themselves no favours, instead of quietly explaining why something isn't acceptable they lose the plot over it. I kkw which I'm inclined to take note of and its not the later, and if we are talking about autism then the complete serious over reaction of a thread the other day is anything to go by in general then its going to be far more difficult for people to understand where they are going wrong then spoken to in a quite manner and become educated." I think you are right, it's best to explain to people in a calm manner, otherwise it gets peoples back up and they refuse to listen, as I explained above, I feel I overreacted the other day on a thread, I was in a bad frame of mind regarding Autism, so should have stayed off FAB and not commented, but It seems that some people reacted very nastily to a certain person on here, and I don't even think her comment was that bad, just a question. In the end , nothing was achieved other than a lot of upset. | |||
"You had a bad day? Maybe I'm having a bad day now. Your not understanding, re-read the op, I said I overreacted, and about ME not getting high rate, and in my reply to you I said I had a bad day regarding Autism, so probably wasn't in the right frame of mind to comment, and should have stayed off of FAB. Why are you being so defensive, I'm not having a go at you, I don't understand.I think she has every bloody right to feel the way she does over the completly ridiculous over reaction on the thread was everyone having a bad day, being called hater, narrow minded and told you made people feel physically sick that thread changed my opinion on so much that day
"Just answered above comment regarding this. | |||
"Yes I think people are extremely oversensitive to some words me included I guess I call myself a look, fruitloop, wonky I don't care I can call myself what I like. I have more problem with people seriously overreacting to stuff than the word, phrase or terminology, they do themselves no favours, instead of quietly explaining why something isn't acceptable they lose the plot over it. I kkw which I'm inclined to take note of and its not the later, and if we are talking about autism then the complete serious over reaction of a thread the other day is anything to go by in general then its going to be far more difficult for people to understand where they are going wrong then spoken to in a quite manner and become educated. I think you are right, it's best to explain to people in a calm manner, otherwise it gets peoples back up and they refuse to listen, as I explained above, I feel I overreacted the other day on a thread, I was in a bad frame of mind regarding Autism, so should have stayed off FAB and not commented, but It seems that some people reacted very nastily to a certain person on here, and I don't even think her comment was that bad, just a question. In the end , nothing was achieved other than a lot of upset." strangely I think a lot was achieved and sadly not good and its completly changed my attitude to certain things for sure | |||
""How do you explain that concept to somebody with Autism?" My niece said she wants to be normal,she hates not being normal. I asked my sister why she thinks she isn't normal. Someone has made her feel she isn't normal and told her what normal is. That would be my sister. She is a very intelligent child,not retarded in any way. She just does things differently and has problems with fitting in to what we call normal. If someone says retarded around her I doubt she would associate it with her autism. My sister had cerebral palsy,as I mentioned early. She was often described as mentally retarded because 90% of her brain wasn't functioning. I don't think twice when someone uses the word retard. It's an en vogue word that has replaced mong which replaced something else that replaced something else. We use the word Lenny sometimes. " Interesting point you raise, on the awareness of the words and there meanings in Autists etc, they would have to make the connection somehow in order to find it offensive, some do, I've seen this, but maybe it's the families that get most upset. | |||
"Yes I think people are extremely oversensitive to some words me included I guess I call myself a look, fruitloop, wonky I don't care I can call myself what I like. I have more problem with people seriously overreacting to stuff than the word, phrase or terminology, they do themselves no favours, instead of quietly explaining why something isn't acceptable they lose the plot over it. I kkw which I'm inclined to take note of and its not the later, and if we are talking about autism then the complete serious over reaction of a thread the other day is anything to go by in general then its going to be far more difficult for people to understand where they are going wrong then spoken to in a quite manner and become educated. I think you are right, it's best to explain to people in a calm manner, otherwise it gets peoples back up and they refuse to listen, as I explained above, I feel I overreacted the other day on a thread, I was in a bad frame of mind regarding Autism, so should have stayed off FAB and not commented, but It seems that some people reacted very nastily to a certain person on here, and I don't even think her comment was that bad, just a question. In the end , nothing was achieved other than a lot of upset.strangely I think a lot was achieved and sadly not good and its completly changed my attitude to certain things for sure " What did you think was achieved? | |||
"Yes I think people are extremely oversensitive to some words me included I guess I call myself a look, fruitloop, wonky I don't care I can call myself what I like. I have more problem with people seriously overreacting to stuff than the word, phrase or terminology, they do themselves no favours, instead of quietly explaining why something isn't acceptable they lose the plot over it. I kkw which I'm inclined to take note of and its not the later, and if we are talking about autism then the complete serious over reaction of a thread the other day is anything to go by in general then its going to be far more difficult for people to understand where they are going wrong then spoken to in a quite manner and become educated. I think you are right, it's best to explain to people in a calm manner, otherwise it gets peoples back up and they refuse to listen, as I explained above, I feel I overreacted the other day on a thread, I was in a bad frame of mind regarding Autism, so should have stayed off FAB and not commented, but It seems that some people reacted very nastily to a certain person on here, and I don't even think her comment was that bad, just a question. In the end , nothing was achieved other than a lot of upset.strangely I think a lot was achieved and sadly not good and its completly changed my attitude to certain things for sure What did you think was achieved? " I'd prefer not to say but but it certainly changed my opinion on things | |||
"Yes I think people are extremely oversensitive to some words me included I guess I call myself a look, fruitloop, wonky I don't care I can call myself what I like. I have more problem with people seriously overreacting to stuff than the word, phrase or terminology, they do themselves no favours, instead of quietly explaining why something isn't acceptable they lose the plot over it. I kkw which I'm inclined to take note of and its not the later, and if we are talking about autism then the complete serious over reaction of a thread the other day is anything to go by in general then its going to be far more difficult for people to understand where they are going wrong then spoken to in a quite manner and become educated. I think you are right, it's best to explain to people in a calm manner, otherwise it gets peoples back up and they refuse to listen, as I explained above, I feel I overreacted the other day on a thread, I was in a bad frame of mind regarding Autism, so should have stayed off FAB and not commented, but It seems that some people reacted very nastily to a certain person on here, and I don't even think her comment was that bad, just a question. In the end , nothing was achieved other than a lot of upset.strangely I think a lot was achieved and sadly not good and its completly changed my attitude to certain things for sure What did you think was achieved? I'd prefer not to say but but it certainly changed my opinion on things " Can I ask what things? I'm only interested for moving in a positive direction, not being funny with you. | |||
"Words don't bother me. They only have the meaning we give them. I don't care if people use the word "retard," for example. If it is meant as a general insult, then it doesn't matter to me. If it is meant as an insult to autistic people, then anyone who would say it is an ass regardless of the verbiage. The choice of words just makes them more apparent.
-Courtney" this! words hold whatever meaning your experiences allow... my sky is elephant colored today quite pleasing to ones gooseberry. | |||
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"Yes I think people are extremely oversensitive to some words me included I guess I call myself a look, fruitloop, wonky I don't care I can call myself what I like. I have more problem with people seriously overreacting to stuff than the word, phrase or terminology, they do themselves no favours, instead of quietly explaining why something isn't acceptable they lose the plot over it. I kkw which I'm inclined to take note of and its not the later, and if we are talking about autism then the complete serious over reaction of a thread the other day is anything to go by in general then its going to be far more difficult for people to understand where they are going wrong then spoken to in a quite manner and become educated. I think you are right, it's best to explain to people in a calm manner, otherwise it gets peoples back up and they refuse to listen, as I explained above, I feel I overreacted the other day on a thread, I was in a bad frame of mind regarding Autism, so should have stayed off FAB and not commented, but It seems that some people reacted very nastily to a certain person on here, and I don't even think her comment was that bad, just a question. In the end , nothing was achieved other than a lot of upset.strangely I think a lot was achieved and sadly not good and its completly changed my attitude to certain things for sure What did you think was achieved? I'd prefer not to say but but it certainly changed my opinion on things Can I ask what things? I'm only interested for moving in a positive direction, not being funny with you." mistermistermac spent a lot of time and effort writing well thought out threads regarding autism which I enjoyed reading and learning, sadly his effort all flew out the window by a group of over reacting banchees, I don't think people want people to be educated I think they thrive on being offended and you, say you was having a bad day because you have autistic children but where not being mindful that others could be having a bad day for various reasons strikes me as being extremely hypocritical. | |||
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"Words don't bother me. They only have the meaning we give them. I don't care if people use the word "retard," for example. If it is meant as a general insult, then it doesn't matter to me. If it is meant as an insult to autistic people, then anyone who would say it is an ass regardless of the verbiage. The choice of words just makes them more apparent.
-Courtney
this! words hold whatever meaning your experiences allow... my sky is elephant colored today quite pleasing to ones gooseberry."The sky is grey and its pleases your bollocks? | |||
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"I already explained my reaction the other day in the op and various comments, I was hoping to have a good debate on the use of language, but it has been ruined by nonsense. I'm done with this thread." and there we go again, people where debating, just not all agreeing with you, you all so asked me why I'd changed so I told you, where is the nonsense on this thread, I just now see evidence of why my opinion has changed people don't really want to lose | |||
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"Words don't bother me. They only have the meaning we give them. I don't care if people use the word "retard," for example. If it is meant as a general insult, then it doesn't matter to me. If it is meant as an insult to autistic people, then anyone who would say it is an ass regardless of the verbiage. The choice of words just makes them more apparent.
-Courtney
this! words hold whatever meaning your experiences allow... my sky is elephant colored today quite pleasing to ones gooseberry.
The sky is grey and its pleases your bollocks? "hahaha :P | |||
