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Is it time we started to prosecute deniers
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"Just deniers? Or can we prosecute all stupid people? " deniers....they can be so transparent at times. | |||
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"If people in the industry are telling alarming things that presumably might shock more people into action, why are they only doing it privately and not to a more public audience? " . The ipcc seem to want to push a "best case scenario" onto the agenda as there scared that publicly admitting the worst case scenario might "turn people off". The 2 degree warming limit that's publicly the agreed, limit... People inside think that's very optimistic! | |||
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"Dickshunary sez denier is a measure of stocking thickness." That had crossed my mind too  | |||
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"But there are those who categorically deny that climate change is manmade and is just a normal climatic cycle from cold to warm. " . There are, but they just have no science to back up there beliefs! There were lots and lots of people who said smoking wasn't addictive but just habit forming and didn't cause cancer! The science at the time proved them wrong then just like the science for the last 30 years is overwhelmingly showing man made climate change | |||
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"I don't believe much of the climate change stuff... Because of the fact the climate has changed many times in the planet's lifetime and without our help. " Exactly, it's just a population manipulation tool. Do I have to wear tights now?  | |||
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"I don't believe much of the climate change stuff... Because of the fact the climate has changed many times in the planet's lifetime and without our help. " . Do you know why you believe that? Is it because science told it you? | |||
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"Dickshunary sez denier is a measure of stocking thickness." Or someone who does not agree with SexyBums point of view. I am a denier... and not the stocking type  | |||
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"So I've spent the weekend with a whole lot of green party members and you realise there's a spectrum of beliefs amongst us on how to tackle issues. Primarily I was sat discussing climate change with about 20 other people and it seems the majority of us have come to the conclusion that it's time we just started prosecuting companies and jailing people that just continually spend millions in denial propaganda, there no different than the tobacco companies and asbestos giants of years gone by, only there working on an even grander scale!. People inside the climate change science are telling you things in private that are really really alarming" Yes, let's just start jailing people for their beliefs because you don't agree with them. | |||
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"Dickshunary sez denier is a measure of stocking thickness. Or someone who does not agree with SexyBums point of view. I am a denier... and not the stocking type ". your kinda missing the point. Were not interested in your personal beliefs in stuff. What we're saying is the people who know it's true, like Exxon Mobil, but just spend millions and millions on propaganda denial | |||
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"We could end up prosecuting a lot of people. I'm watching a programme on the bones found in south africa recently. Evolution is a pretty secure arguement...more so than global warming...yet religion with beliefs that deny evolution continue. DENY EVOLUTION. Yep...lock em up....close the churches...! If only...! " i watched it also and it was fascinating and no doubt there are some on the planet who's belief system would have those scientists with their proven evidence stoned or something.. | |||
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"OP do you mean a full blown trial with evidence on both sides of the argument which wont cost a lot will it..? or a bit like a show trial for these none believers/ none conformists..? or just ship them off to be 're- educated', maybe to a camp..? " . They did prosecute the tobacco companies in the US and they were forced to pay out billions including many class actions | |||
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"OP do you mean a full blown trial with evidence on both sides of the argument which wont cost a lot will it..? or a bit like a show trial for these none believers/ none conformists..? or just ship them off to be 're- educated', maybe to a camp..? . They did prosecute the tobacco companies in the US and they were forced to pay out billions including many class actions" did anyone get jailed or is that just the green alternative to a different opinion..? | |||
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"You can't prosecute the deniers because they're correct, archaeolog/history shows clearly that climate change is cyclical. The idea of manmade climate change was dreampt up as a way to I.pose green taxes. We should just jail Al Gore instead." | |||
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"Might be time to stop focusing on climate change and focus more on obvious things that can be seen as harmful to the environment by your average person." . You know the 2 degree limit that the ipcc set.... Humans have never seen an earth 2 degrees warmer! The last time the earth was 2 degrees warmer was 3.5 million years ago... Were nearly half way to the 2 degree limit already! I've just spent a weekend with a guy who's a thirty year expert on climatology in a very top UK university!.... He doesn't think there's a chance of holding 2 degrees on the current data, all his data is showing 4 degrees in 20 years, not 2 degrees in 80 | |||
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"We could end up prosecuting a lot of people. I'm watching a programme on the bones found in south africa recently. Evolution is a pretty secure arguement...more so than global warming...yet religion with beliefs that deny evolution continue. DENY EVOLUTION. Yep...lock em up....close the churches...! If only...! Yep..large parts of the world do not accept or tolerate atheism or secularism. Just down George st in any uk town you have churches the likes Jahova witnesses pedalling complete lies and filth about human history. Problem is...OP...Do we look them up for denying the truth. i watched it also and it was fascinating and no doubt there are some on the planet who's belief system would have those scientists with their proven evidence stoned or something.. " | |||
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"OP do you mean a full blown trial with evidence on both sides of the argument which wont cost a lot will it..? or a bit like a show trial for these none believers/ none conformists..? or just ship them off to be 're- educated', maybe to a camp..? . They did prosecute the tobacco companies in the US and they were forced to pay out billions including many class actions did anyone get jailed or is that just the green alternative to a different opinion..?" . The US government prosecuted the tobacco companies under the rico law? I think. They charged them for racketeering and illegal practises to which the tobacco companies denied it for quite a few years before finally capitulating with a 600 billon dollar agreement in damages | |||
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"You can't prosecute the deniers because they're correct, archaeolog/history shows clearly that climate change is cyclical. The idea of manmade climate change was dreampt up as a way to I.pose green taxes. We should just jail Al Gore instead." Oh dear. That would be a great conspiracy theory if there actually were huge green taxes. Instead governments are still lobbied and bought off by traditional energy companies. | |||
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"I don't believe much of the climate change stuff... Because of the fact the climate has changed many times in the planet's lifetime and without our help. " But even if you don't agree with climate change, no one is denying that fossil fuels are a finite resource that are running out. So doesn't it make more sense to start looking at renewables now, for things such as electricity production, because it's going to be a long time before you get a battery powered 747 to take you on holiday. | |||
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"Might be time to stop focusing on climate change and focus more on obvious things that can be seen as harmful to the environment by your average person.. You know the 2 degree limit that the ipcc set.... Humans have never seen an earth 2 degrees warmer! The last time the earth was 2 degrees warmer was 3.5 million years ago... Were nearly half way to the 2 degree limit already! I've just spent a weekend with a guy who's a thirty year expert on climatology in a very top UK university!.... He doesn't think there's a chance of holding 2 degrees on the current data, all his data is showing 4 degrees in 20 years, not 2 degrees in 80" Hardly anyone understands this data though, i don't. And even if we did we now have a world that prioritises the fucked up life style we enjoy because instantaneous gratfication overrides the future. | |||
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"You can't prosecute the deniers because they're correct, archaeolog/history shows clearly that climate change is cyclical. The idea of manmade climate change was dreampt up as a way to I.pose green taxes. We should just jail Al Gore instead. "Thumbs up even though there are no 'green taxes'? I guess this is the level of climate change denial. Literally making stuff up. | |||
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"You can't prosecute the deniers because they're correct, archaeolog/history shows clearly that climate change is cyclical. The idea of manmade climate change was dreampt up as a way to I.pose green taxes. We should just jail Al Gore instead. Oh dear. That would be a great conspiracy theory if there actually were huge green taxes. Instead governments are still lobbied and bought off by traditional energy companies. " I didn't say there were huge green taxes did I. | |||
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"You can't prosecute the deniers because they're correct, archaeolog/history shows clearly that climate change is cyclical. The idea of manmade climate change was dreampt up as a way to I.pose green taxes. We should just jail Al Gore instead. "+ 1. | |||
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"Just deniers? Or can we prosecute all stupid people? deniers....they can be so transparent at times. " especially the lower numbers  | |||
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"Do you know something SB, fair play that you've come on here and said what you and your like minded people are thinking but its staggering that in order to silence a differing opinion you deem it acceptable to lock people up.. its as someone else says a short step from extremism, and we have seen the barbarity of that too recently.. " . Nobody minds a different opinion... Christ I'll put my hand on my heart and tell you I've met dozens of eminent scientists who wish to God the data was flawed... But right now,the best the data is showing really really bad. Nobody knows for absolute definite, that's just not how science works, they deal in probabilities.... And the probability of really bad shit happening through man made climate change is overwhelming! The reason the vast majority of the public don't know that is because of the massive corporations who are pushing millions into climate denial even though they themselves know it ti be true. Just look at the Exxon leaked memos from 1981.... Exxon knew it, there chief scientists were in full agreement and Exxon's solution was to bury the findings and spend 30 million on propaganda showing it not to be true! | |||
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"He doesn't think there's a chance of holding 2 degrees on the current data, all his data is showing 4 degrees in 20 years, not 2 degrees in 80" So we're doomed. Still doesn't mean it's manmade. | |||
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"So basically prosecute people who don't agree with you or have different beliefs? I think that's been done before. " | |||
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"I don't believe much of the climate change stuff... Because of the fact the climate has changed many times in the planet's lifetime and without our help. " Never at this speed. There's a mass extinction coming, if we don't help our selfs it could be ours. | |||
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"So basically prosecute people who don't agree with you or have different beliefs? I think that's been done before. " You got it succinctly there
It is an easy solution to "get rid" of people who don't agree with you.
Extremists, they come in every colour. | |||
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"But there are those who categorically deny that climate change is manmade and is just a normal climatic cycle from cold to warm. . There are, but they just have no science to back up there beliefs! There were lots and lots of people who said smoking wasn't addictive but just habit forming and didn't cause cancer! The science at the time proved them wrong then just like the science for the last 30 years is overwhelmingly showing man made climate change" They may not have science to back up the belief that climate change is cyclical. But they do have hundreds of years of written records..... | |||
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"He doesn't think there's a chance of holding 2 degrees on the current data, all his data is showing 4 degrees in 20 years, not 2 degrees in 80 So we're doomed. Still doesn't mean it's manmade." . But nearly every scientist is in agreement that the current data is showing man made climate change! | |||
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"I'll be brutally honest with you all.... All these "things" your claiming! It's just bollocks, there's no scientific data to back up your beliefs, it's like letting religious people run the government on the grounds that the good book will provide!. Your all in denial of any truthful data because there's some very powerful individuals and companies who are pushing a malicious lie! Just the same as the tobacco and asbestos companies did for 40 years while knowing full well themselves that the propaganda they were pushing was bullshit" The same could be said for you though. You've spent time with people who's job it is to prove man-made climate change. Did you really think they'd tell you it's all a myth? | |||
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"Got my heating on tonight. If it doesn't happen can we prosecute those doing all the scare mongering? What time scales we working with here? " Turn it up a bit...... I dare you. | |||
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"I'll be brutally honest with you all.... All these "things" your claiming! It's just bollocks, there's no scientific data to back up your beliefs, it's like letting religious people run the government on the grounds that the good book will provide!. Your all in denial of any truthful data because there's some very powerful individuals and companies who are pushing a malicious lie! Just the same as the tobacco and asbestos companies did for 40 years while knowing full well themselves that the propaganda they were pushing was bullshit The same could be said for you though. You've spent time with people who's job it is to prove man-made climate change. Did you really think they'd tell you it's all a myth?" Your only allowed to look at it from their point of view sorry. It's not allowed to work both ways. | |||
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"I'll be brutally honest with you all.... All these "things" your claiming! It's just bollocks, there's no scientific data to back up your beliefs, it's like letting religious people run the government on the grounds that the good book will provide!. Your all in denial of any truthful data because there's some very powerful individuals and companies who are pushing a malicious lie! Just the same as the tobacco and asbestos companies did for 40 years while knowing full well themselves that the propaganda they were pushing was bullshit The same could be said for you though. You've spent time with people who's job it is to prove man-made climate change. Did you really think they'd tell you it's all a myth? Your only allowed to look at it from their point of view sorry. It's not allowed to work both ways. " Don't get me wrong, I'm all for recycling and making the best of our limited natural resources (even when the figures for recycling are massively inflated) but man-made climate change is just another scare tactic. | |||
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"This kind of science isn't fact it's best guess science. There are a huge number of people getting very rich indeed on the back of the green agenda, that is a fact. They buy and sell greenhouse gases on the open market at a governmental level how is that helping? If we as a nation get out greenhouse gases under an agreed limit we sell what's left to those that don't and the gases get produced anyway. It's about money not climate. There are lots of theories, all have some scientific basis but they are just theories, personally I like the salt water chimneys in the arctic sea that switch off the oceanic conveyor belt and plunge us into an ice age as a result of warming. This means the earth will thermo-regulate it's self! As for jailing people who deny your version of science? Fundamentalism at its worst imho, hate preachers and religious zealots think they are right too!" . But religious zealots aren't dealing on evidence based scientific agreement!!! You've all got great theories but there just that... Theories. Unlike climate change that's got thousands and thousands of scientific evidence based agreement by thousands of experts in there fields. Sir David Attenborough has done several programmes on man made climate change because the evidence shows its true  | |||
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"I'll be brutally honest with you all.... All these "things" your claiming! It's just bollocks, there's no scientific data to back up your beliefs, it's like letting religious people run the government on the grounds that the good book will provide!. Your all in denial of any truthful data because there's some very powerful individuals and companies who are pushing a malicious lie! Just the same as the tobacco and asbestos companies did for 40 years while knowing full well themselves that the propaganda they were pushing was bullshit The same could be said for you though. You've spent time with people who's job it is to prove man-made climate change. Did you really think they'd tell you it's all a myth?" Funny how when people are paid to look into anything, the results are pretty much exactly what the paymaster wants to hear. I've done lots of research into this phenomenon. Still looking for a plausible explanation. It's a mystery....... | |||
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"This kind of science isn't fact it's best guess science. There are a huge number of people getting very rich indeed on the back of the green agenda, that is a fact. They buy and sell greenhouse gases on the open market at a governmental level how is that helping? If we as a nation get out greenhouse gases under an agreed limit we sell what's left to those that don't and the gases get produced anyway. It's about money not climate. There are lots of theories, all have some scientific basis but they are just theories, personally I like the salt water chimneys in the arctic sea that switch off the oceanic conveyor belt and plunge us into an ice age as a result of warming. This means the earth will thermo-regulate it's self! As for jailing people who deny your version of science? Fundamentalism at its worst imho, hate preachers and religious zealots think they are right too!. But religious zealots aren't dealing on evidence based scientific agreement!!! You've all got great theories but there just that... Theories. Unlike climate change that's got thousands and thousands of scientific evidence based agreement by thousands of experts in there fields. Sir David Attenborough has done several programmes on man made climate change because the evidence shows its true "Is Sir David a climate change expert now or does he get his data from those who are paid to prove man-made climate change is real? For every document for one theory there's another document disproving it. Plus fossil evidence proves its cyclical. | |||
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"This kind of science isn't fact it's best guess science. There are a huge number of people getting very rich indeed on the back of the green agenda, that is a fact. They buy and sell greenhouse gases on the open market at a governmental level how is that helping? If we as a nation get out greenhouse gases under an agreed limit we sell what's left to those that don't and the gases get produced anyway. It's about money not climate. There are lots of theories, all have some scientific basis but they are just theories, personally I like the salt water chimneys in the arctic sea that switch off the oceanic conveyor belt and plunge us into an ice age as a result of warming. This means the earth will thermo-regulate it's self! As for jailing people who deny your version of science? Fundamentalism at its worst imho, hate preachers and religious zealots think they are right too!. But religious zealots aren't dealing on evidence based scientific agreement!!! You've all got great theories but there just that... Theories. Unlike climate change that's got thousands and thousands of scientific evidence based agreement by thousands of experts in there fields. Sir David Attenborough has done several programmes on man made climate change because the evidence shows its true
Is Sir David a climate change expert now or does he get his data from those who are paid to prove man-made climate change is real?
For every document for one theory there's another document disproving it. Plus fossil evidence proves its cyclical.". No honestly... That's just misinformation that's put out by the companies who wish to bullshit you! There's absolutely NO peer reviewed evidence, that man made climate change isn't occurring right now! That's my point about prosecuting and jailing the willful misinformation think tanks paid for by "companies with interests" | |||
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"This kind of science isn't fact it's best guess science. There are a huge number of people getting very rich indeed on the back of the green agenda, that is a fact. They buy and sell greenhouse gases on the open market at a governmental level how is that helping? If we as a nation get out greenhouse gases under an agreed limit we sell what's left to those that don't and the gases get produced anyway. It's about money not climate. There are lots of theories, all have some scientific basis but they are just theories, personally I like the salt water chimneys in the arctic sea that switch off the oceanic conveyor belt and plunge us into an ice age as a result of warming. This means the earth will thermo-regulate it's self! As for jailing people who deny your version of science? Fundamentalism at its worst imho, hate preachers and religious zealots think they are right too!. But religious zealots aren't dealing on evidence based scientific agreement!!! You've all got great theories but there just that... Theories. Unlike climate change that's got thousands and thousands of scientific evidence based agreement by thousands of experts in there fields. Sir David Attenborough has done several programmes on man made climate change because the evidence shows its true "Wheeling out a celebrity to endorse something sounds like evil conglomerate power people tactics to me. I don't know who to believe.................... Perhaps people should channel their efforts in doing something about the real polluters such as India and China if this is where it's all coming from? But no it's far easier to sit and talk about it in the UK rather than take direct action in a place that would make a difference. That's why I remain cynical. | |||
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"I'll be brutally honest with you all.... All these "things" your claiming! It's just bollocks, there's no scientific data to back up your beliefs, it's like letting religious people run the government on the grounds that the good book will provide!. Your all in denial of any truthful data because there's some very powerful individuals and companies who are pushing a malicious lie! Just the same as the tobacco and asbestos companies did for 40 years while knowing full well themselves that the propaganda they were pushing was bullshit" That's what I meant to say | |||
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"Whatever the issue, be it climate, holocaust or the identity of the Phantom Flan Flinger, prosecution of denial is unhealthy, even when the evidence is overwhelmingly against the deniers. " . If you denied the Jewish Holocaust in Germany, they jail you for an unlimited period, until you stop talking bullshit propaganda for your Nazi beliefs. This is now our best hope at mitigating climate change, because the science is over, climate change is proved, human influence is proved, we really need to move on and stop it now | |||
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"Whatever the issue, be it climate, holocaust or the identity of the Phantom Flan Flinger, prosecution of denial is unhealthy, even when the evidence is overwhelmingly against the deniers. . If you denied the Jewish Holocaust in Germany, they jail you for an unlimited period, until you stop talking bullshit propaganda for your Nazi beliefs. This is now our best hope at mitigating climate change, because the science is over, climate change is proved, human influence is proved, we really need to move on and stop it now" Oh please!!! Are you seriously comparing the theory of climate change prediction yes prediction to the historical fact of the brutal gassing of millions of people??!!! Quite frankly that's offensive, shame on you. | |||
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"The science you choose to read proves it's true to you. If you sit on the other side of the argument there's plenty of counter argument. Religious zealots are utterly certain they are right and anyone with a different view needs locking up! Does that sound familiar? Oh yeh it's you! Your are so convinced that your version of the evidence is correct not only do you refuse to acknowledge other scientific opinion but you want them locked up, a dangerous world!!! When dealing with any scientist the first and most important question is ultimately where do their wages come from. You used tobacco as an example, plenty of scientists had evidence smoking was harmless scientists to a large extent agree with and evidence whatever view the people who pay their wages want, are you sure yours aren't the same? How? The only way is to look objectively at all sides of any argument, you clearly don't if you want those who disagree locked up " . No I want people who are pedaling a known lie locked up... There's a difference. Exxon mobile knew about climate change in 1981 , there own chief scientists told them about the probable outcome!. They spent 7 years knowingly putting out misinformation about what there own scientists said was happening.. You know scientists employed by errr... An oil company | |||
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"Whatever the issue, be it climate, holocaust or the identity of the Phantom Flan Flinger, prosecution of denial is unhealthy, even when the evidence is overwhelmingly against the deniers. . If you denied the Jewish Holocaust in Germany, they jail you for an unlimited period, until you stop talking bullshit propaganda for your Nazi beliefs. This is now our best hope at mitigating climate change, because the science is over, climate change is proved, human influence is proved, we really need to move on and stop it now Oh please!!! Are you seriously comparing the theory of climate change prediction yes prediction to the historical fact of the brutal gassing of millions of people??!!! Quite frankly that's offensive, shame on you. " I don't agree with the OP on climate change or his opinion but he wasnt making the comparison like that I'm sure. | |||
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"Whatever the issue, be it climate, holocaust or the identity of the Phantom Flan Flinger, prosecution of denial is unhealthy, even when the evidence is overwhelmingly against the deniers. . If you denied the Jewish Holocaust in Germany, they jail you for an unlimited period, until you stop talking bullshit propaganda for your Nazi beliefs. This is now our best hope at mitigating climate change, because the science is over, climate change is proved, human influence is proved, we really need to move on and stop it now Oh please!!! Are you seriously comparing the theory of climate change prediction yes prediction to the historical fact of the brutal gassing of millions of people??!!! Quite frankly that's offensive, shame on you. " . There's as much evidence for man made climate change as there is for the Holocaust. You really are in denial I'm afraid | |||
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"Whatever the issue, be it climate, holocaust or the identity of the Phantom Flan Flinger, prosecution of denial is unhealthy, even when the evidence is overwhelmingly against the deniers. . If you denied the Jewish Holocaust in Germany, they jail you for an unlimited period, until you stop talking bullshit propaganda for your Nazi beliefs. This is now our best hope at mitigating climate change, because the science is over, climate change is proved, human influence is proved, we really need to move on and stop it now" So you actually are equating this to the holocaust? This is exactly the reason people won't take you seriously. As a matter of interest, how many millions of years will it be before the climate change wipes us out? | |||
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"I don't think you are going to get any kind of serious or informed discussion on climate change on Fab Swingers! Most people on here can't see further than their cock/pussy..." That's a bit sweeping. And insulting too. | |||
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"Dickshunary sez denier is a measure of stocking thickness. That had crossed my mind too " | |||
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"Just deniers? Or can we prosecute all stupid people? " Better still bring back the stocks in the village square put all the stupid people there . | |||
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"Whatever the issue, be it climate, holocaust or the identity of the Phantom Flan Flinger, prosecution of denial is unhealthy, even when the evidence is overwhelmingly against the deniers. . If you denied the Jewish Holocaust in Germany, they jail you for an unlimited period, until you stop talking bullshit propaganda for your Nazi beliefs. This is now our best hope at mitigating climate change, because the science is over, climate change is proved, human influence is proved, we really need to move on and stop it now Oh please!!! Are you seriously comparing the theory of climate change prediction yes prediction to the historical fact of the brutal gassing of millions of people??!!! Quite frankly that's offensive, shame on you. . There's as much evidence for man made climate change as there is for the Holocaust. You really are in denial I'm afraid" This is an astonishing and totally outrageous claim. I'm genuinely shocked. | |||
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"So I've spent the weekend with a whole lot of green party members and you realise there's a spectrum of beliefs amongst us on how to tackle issues. Primarily I was sat discussing climate change with about 20 other people and it seems the majority of us have come to the conclusion that it's time we just started prosecuting companies and jailing people that just continually spend millions in denial propaganda, there no different than the tobacco companies and asbestos giants of years gone by, only there working on an even grander scale!. People inside the climate change science are telling you things in private that are really really alarming" Get real,nobody knows the truth,the climate change scientists say what they say because they are paid to do so.Nature is more powerfull than pathetic mankind that is full of its own self importance. | |||
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"Whatever the issue, be it climate, holocaust or the identity of the Phantom Flan Flinger, prosecution of denial is unhealthy, even when the evidence is overwhelmingly against the deniers. . If you denied the Jewish Holocaust in Germany, they jail you for an unlimited period, until you stop talking bullshit propaganda for your Nazi beliefs. This is now our best hope at mitigating climate change, because the science is over, climate change is proved, human influence is proved, we really need to move on and stop it now So you actually are equating this to the holocaust? This is exactly the reason people won't take you seriously. As a matter of interest, how many millions of years will it be before the climate change wipes us out? " . No. What I was pointing out is that Germany got feed up to the back teeth of Holocaust denial despite overwhelming evidence proving it so. So they just said anyone who denys it now, just gets jailed for being a fucking idiot! Overwhelming evidence that proves to the best of our knowledge, the Holocaust happened. Now that's what I was comparing it to | |||
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"Whatever the issue, be it climate, holocaust or the identity of the Phantom Flan Flinger, prosecution of denial is unhealthy, even when the evidence is overwhelmingly against the deniers. . If you denied the Jewish Holocaust in Germany, they jail you for an unlimited period, until you stop talking bullshit propaganda for your Nazi beliefs. This is now our best hope at mitigating climate change, because the science is over, climate change is proved, human influence is proved, we really need to move on and stop it now So you actually are equating this to the holocaust? This is exactly the reason people won't take you seriously. As a matter of interest, how many millions of years will it be before the climate change wipes us out? . No. What I was pointing out is that Germany got feed up to the back teeth of Holocaust denial despite overwhelming evidence proving it so. So they just said anyone who denys it now, just gets jailed for being a fucking idiot! Overwhelming evidence that proves to the best of our knowledge, the Holocaust happened. Now that's what I was comparing it to" But there isn't overwhelming evidence that man made climate change is real. Exactly the opposite. I'm afraid you have been indoctrinated by fanatics. | |||
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"Whatever the issue, be it climate, holocaust or the identity of the Phantom Flan Flinger, prosecution of denial is unhealthy, even when the evidence is overwhelmingly against the deniers. . If you denied the Jewish Holocaust in Germany, they jail you for an unlimited period, until you stop talking bullshit propaganda for your Nazi beliefs. This is now our best hope at mitigating climate change, because the science is over, climate change is proved, human influence is proved, we really need to move on and stop it now Oh please!!! Are you seriously comparing the theory of climate change prediction yes prediction to the historical fact of the brutal gassing of millions of people??!!! Quite frankly that's offensive, shame on you. . There's as much evidence for man made climate change as there is for the Holocaust. You really are in denial I'm afraid This is an astonishing and totally outrageous claim. I'm genuinely shocked. " . Stop being so shocked... There's 25,000 experts who have found through 30,000 peer reviewed papers that prove man made climate change. There's not 1 paper that's peer reviewed that shows otherwise | |||
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"Whatever the issue, be it climate, holocaust or the identity of the Phantom Flan Flinger, prosecution of denial is unhealthy, even when the evidence is overwhelmingly against the deniers. . If you denied the Jewish Holocaust in Germany, they jail you for an unlimited period, until you stop talking bullshit propaganda for your Nazi beliefs. This is now our best hope at mitigating climate change, because the science is over, climate change is proved, human influence is proved, we really need to move on and stop it now Oh please!!! Are you seriously comparing the theory of climate change prediction yes prediction to the historical fact of the brutal gassing of millions of people??!!! Quite frankly that's offensive, shame on you. . There's as much evidence for man made climate change as there is for the Holocaust. You really are in denial I'm afraid This is an astonishing and totally outrageous claim. I'm genuinely shocked. . Stop being so shocked... There's 25,000 experts who have found through 30,000 peer reviewed papers that prove man made climate change. There's not 1 paper that's peer reviewed that shows otherwise" Rubbish | |||
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"If you can't see the difference between historical fact that people lived through and video footage of historical events and scientific prediction there really is no hope!" This. I'm off to rev the Porsche for a bit.  | |||
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"So you're now saying that man made climate change was a known fact in 1981? Interesting as your beloved ipcc said it was " likely" in 2001 and " very likely in 2010. As much evidence that climate change is man made as there is about the holocaust?? And you wonder why so many think environmentalists are rabid fundamentalists and don't take them seriously. You're a bit like the animal rights activists who released mink into the Eco system, well intention but quite mad and a bit dangerous" . Actually it was first proposed in 1973 by 1981 there was mounting evidence, evidence that Exxon's own scientists uncovered and that Exxon spent 7 years hiding!. There's no guarantees in science, it's the most likely outcome based on data and empirical evidence... When I say most likely, they start by trying to disprove the theory and after 35 years and thousands of counter theory's.... Only one holds true to the evidence as we know it today! Man made climate change by c02 emissions | |||
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"If you can't see the difference between historical fact that people lived through and video footage of historical events and scientific prediction there really is no hope!" + 1. I usually totally disagree with the OP. On this occasion, I think their hysterical bleatings and comparison to the Nazi holocaust a disgrace. | |||
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"If you can't see the difference between historical fact that people lived through and video footage of historical events and scientific prediction there really is no hope! + 1. I usually totally disagree with the OP. On this occasion, I think their hysterical bleatings and comparison to the Nazi holocaust a disgrace. " has mr grumpy pants come to visit? | |||
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"So I've spent the weekend with a whole lot of green party members and you realise there's a spectrum of beliefs amongst us on how to tackle issues. Primarily I was sat discussing climate change with about 20 other people and it seems the majority of us have come to the conclusion that it's time we just started prosecuting companies and jailing people that just continually spend millions in denial propaganda, there no different than the tobacco companies and asbestos giants of years gone by, only there working on an even grander scale!. People inside the climate change science are telling you things in private that are really really alarming Yes, let's just start jailing people for their beliefs because you don't agree with them." Excellent idea. Can we start with those of a religious inclination? | |||
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"Why don't we prosecute people who believe in the wrong God? Green activist are no different to religious activists and it is but a small step to go from activist to extremist. Go try pushing non mainstream beliefs in a country less tolerant than ours and see how far it gets you. Be grateful that you live in a society that will tolerate your suggestions rather than throw you in jail for being non mainstream and therefore a threat." | |||
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"If you can't see the difference between historical fact that people lived through and video footage of historical events and scientific prediction there really is no hope!" . Are you kidding me, there was thousands and thousands who denied the Holocaust happened for years! To this day there's still people who claim bullshit about it not happening. It always happens exactly the same way. First they deny it point blank and spend years arguing about bullshit facts After they've been proven wrong they then move to... Oh well it might have happened but then they argue about how many died... Then they spend years arguing about utter bollocks about whether it was feasible! Even the most ardent C02 sceptics, admitted years ago that they were wrong, they then changed to... Oh yes C02 effects climate but.. Were not putting out enough to effect.. After years more arguing they were proved wrong again and now there entire arguments rest on.. How much change man made c02 will produce! Yet even today with thousands of peer reviewed papers showing current climate change... There still in fucking denial. There's glaciers dissolving in ten years faster than they have in 100 years, there's the lowest Arctic sea ice ever recorded, the acidification of the oceans is going at a 3 million year high! Half the Antarctic glaciers are eroding at a pace never seen before, the oceans are hotter than we've ever seen before.... Syria's had it worst drought in generations that caused them to desert the farms and head to the city for work, were losing more species of animal and plant life than has been lost in a million years... And all this in the last 80 years of human evolution... You trot out the same bullshit about cyclical climate change.. Fuck me it took 3 million years to go into and come out of an ice age and were looking at doing it in 150 years | |||
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"What happenned to the hole in the ozone layer that was going to get bigger and bigger and fry us all, according to some scientists/doom mongers? Oh ye, it grew back didn't it?" . It grew back because we stopped emitting millions of tonnes of CFCs that caused it?... But not before killing a few hundred thousands through skin cancer in the southern hemisphere | |||
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"Whatever the issue, be it climate, holocaust or the identity of the Phantom Flan Flinger, prosecution of denial is unhealthy, even when the evidence is overwhelmingly against the deniers. . If you denied the Jewish Holocaust in Germany, they jail you for an unlimited period, until you stop talking bullshit propaganda for your Nazi beliefs. This is now our best hope at mitigating climate change, because the science is over, climate change is proved, human influence is proved, we really need to move on and stop it now" You do draw some extreme parallels sometimes. | |||
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"Whatever the issue, be it climate, holocaust or the identity of the Phantom Flan Flinger, prosecution of denial is unhealthy, even when the evidence is overwhelmingly against the deniers. . If you denied the Jewish Holocaust in Germany, they jail you for an unlimited period, until you stop talking bullshit propaganda for your Nazi beliefs. This is now our best hope at mitigating climate change, because the science is over, climate change is proved, human influence is proved, we really need to move on and stop it now Oh please!!! Are you seriously comparing the theory of climate change prediction yes prediction to the historical fact of the brutal gassing of millions of people??!!! Quite frankly that's offensive, shame on you. I don't agree with the OP on climate change or his opinion but he wasnt making the comparison like that I'm sure. " It appear that he was....  | |||
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"Do you know something SB, fair play that you've come on here and said what you and your like minded people are thinking but its staggering that in order to silence a differing opinion you deem it acceptable to lock people up.. its as someone else says a short step from extremism, and we have seen the barbarity of that too recently.. . Nobody minds a different opinion..." really.. thats not what you said was the case in the OP.. because 'their' side dont believe 'your' side the talk is of prosecution and locking them up.. doesn't exactly instil faith in the argument does it.. | |||
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"If you can't see the difference between historical fact that people lived through and video footage of historical events and scientific prediction there really is no hope!. Are you kidding me, there was thousands and thousands who denied the Holocaust happened for years! To this day there's still people who claim bullshit about it not happening. It always happens exactly the same way. First they deny it point blank and spend years arguing about bullshit facts After they've been proven wrong they then move to... Oh well it might have happened but then they argue about how many died... Then they spend years arguing about utter bollocks about whether it was feasible! Even the most ardent C02 sceptics, admitted years ago that they were wrong, they then changed to... Oh yes C02 effects climate but.. Were not putting out enough to effect.. After years more arguing they were proved wrong again and now there entire arguments rest on.. How much change man made c02 will produce! Yet even today with thousands of peer reviewed papers showing current climate change... There still in fucking denial. There's glaciers dissolving in ten years faster than they have in 100 years, there's the lowest Arctic sea ice ever recorded, the acidification of the oceans is going at a 3 million year high! Half the Antarctic glaciers are eroding at a pace never seen before, the oceans are hotter than we've ever seen before.... Syria's had it worst drought in generations that caused them to desert the farms and head to the city for work, were losing more species of animal and plant life than has been lost in a million years... And all this in the last 80 years of human evolution... You trot out the same bullshit about cyclical climate change.. Fuck me it took 3 million years to go into and come out of an ice age and were looking at doing it in 150 years "If I recall correctly, the thousands and thousands who denied the Holocaust happened were pricipally the ones who perpetrated the atrocities.... I must confess, I follow your posts with a macabre car crash attraction...... | |||
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"What happenned to the hole in the ozone layer that was going to get bigger and bigger and fry us all, according to some scientists/doom mongers? Oh ye, it grew back didn't it?. It grew back because we stopped emitting millions of tonnes of CFCs that caused it?... " Hang on, so scientists around the world came up with a solution, got the politicians on board, and sorted it. All without locking anyone up. Sounds a sensible way forward to me... Mr ddc | |||
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"Whatever the issue, be it climate, holocaust or the identity of the Phantom Flan Flinger, prosecution of denial is unhealthy, even when the evidence is overwhelmingly against the deniers. . If you denied the Jewish Holocaust in Germany, they jail you for an unlimited period, until you stop talking bullshit propaganda for your Nazi beliefs. This is now our best hope at mitigating climate change, because the science is over, climate change is proved, human influence is proved, we really need to move on and stop it now You do draw some extreme parallels sometimes." . It's not extreme at all... What are you taking about? The science is done, to the best of our knowledge and what all the evidence points to... Is man made climate change through c02 emissions. We don't know everything about how the climate works but we know an awful lot and right now the evidence is showing bad things! What your saying... Is wait a minute, there's stuff scientists don't know yet... Yes there's stuff we don't know, but in reality all we can do is act on the data at hand right now! Let's say you got cancer, would you honestly spend months arguing with experts because they don't fully understand everything about cancer... Or would you take their best advise based on their current understandings of it! | |||
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"What happenned to the hole in the ozone layer that was going to get bigger and bigger and fry us all, according to some scientists/doom mongers? Oh ye, it grew back didn't it?. It grew back because we stopped emitting millions of tonnes of CFCs that caused it?... Hang on, so scientists around the world came up with a solution, got the politicians on board, and sorted it. All without locking anyone up. Sounds a sensible way forward to me... Mr ddc" . Not quite Mr ddc. The ozone problem didn't fully go away but it did get better through actions we took! Now let's say there were really powerful lobbying groups that spent millions of pounds denying the evidence of CFCs and ozone depletion because it... Well it ruined there business plan.. And mean time while there arguing about CFC production 20 million people have died though skin cancer.... That's more like the problems were facing | |||
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"What happenned to the hole in the ozone layer that was going to get bigger and bigger and fry us all, according to some scientists/doom mongers? Oh ye, it grew back didn't it?. It grew back because we stopped emitting millions of tonnes of CFCs that caused it?... But not before killing a few hundred thousands through skin cancer in the southern hemisphere "And apparently the greenhouse gasses associated with global warming are helping to protect it | |||
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"If you can't see the difference between historical fact that people lived through and video footage of historical events and scientific prediction there really is no hope!. Are you kidding me, there was thousands and thousands who denied the Holocaust happened for years! To this day there's still people who claim bullshit about it not happening. It always happens exactly the same way. First they deny it point blank and spend years arguing about bullshit facts After they've been proven wrong they then move to... Oh well it might have happened but then they argue about how many died... Then they spend years arguing about utter bollocks about whether it was feasible! Even the most ardent C02 sceptics, admitted years ago that they were wrong, they then changed to... Oh yes C02 effects climate but.. Were not putting out enough to effect.. After years more arguing they were proved wrong again and now there entire arguments rest on.. How much change man made c02 will produce! Yet even today with thousands of peer reviewed papers showing current climate change... There still in fucking denial. There's glaciers dissolving in ten years faster than they have in 100 years, there's the lowest Arctic sea ice ever recorded, the acidification of the oceans is going at a 3 million year high! Half the Antarctic glaciers are eroding at a pace never seen before, the oceans are hotter than we've ever seen before.... Syria's had it worst drought in generations that caused them to desert the farms and head to the city for work, were losing more species of animal and plant life than has been lost in a million years... And all this in the last 80 years of human evolution... You trot out the same bullshit about cyclical climate change.. Fuck me it took 3 million years to go into and come out of an ice age and were looking at doing it in 150 years
If I recall correctly, the thousands and thousands who denied the Holocaust happened were pricipally the ones who perpetrated the atrocities....
I must confess, I follow your posts with a macabre car crash attraction......
". Believe it or not, I'm not in it for the popularity stakes  .
The Germans realised that to fix a problem, you first have to admit the problem exists and some times that means forcing people to admit it!
I wasn't actually comparing them on a like for like basis!
The problem with climate change for politicans is the evidence and the solutions!
There just not brave enough to grab the bull by the horns | |||
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 in politics forum!I want to lick a nice pussy Il vote for that!! | |||
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"What happenned to the hole in the ozone layer that was going to get bigger and bigger and fry us all, according to some scientists/doom mongers? Oh ye, it grew back didn't it?. It grew back because we stopped emitting millions of tonnes of CFCs that caused it?... But not before killing a few hundred thousands through skin cancer in the southern hemisphere
And apparently the greenhouse gasses associated with global warming are helping to protect it ". I'm a way yes that's true! But that's because we've not actually stopped the global use of CFCs! This is getting back to science based problems and solutions... You might not like the solution and you can't think of another solution, so we just deny the science that shows the problem It's really maddening  | |||
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" Not quite Mr ddc. The ozone problem didn't fully go away but it did get better through actions we took! Now let's say there were really powerful lobbying groups that spent millions of pounds denying the evidence of CFCs and ozone depletion because it... Well it ruined there business plan.. And mean time while there arguing about CFC production 20 million people have died though skin cancer.... That's more like the problems were facing" A minute ago you said it was "tens of thousands". I'd still rather go with general consensus rather than the extremists who advocate locking people up if they don't agree with them and dare to oppose their views. Ironically isn't that why Dachau was opened? | |||
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"FFS...I mean WTF..if you want to talk politics go on a f in politics forum!I want to lick a nice pussy Il vote for that!! "That hot air won't help | |||
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"FFS...I mean WTF..if you want to talk politics go on a f in politics forum!I want to lick a nice pussy Il vote for that!! ". Your lost! No I mean your lost, you want the I wanna lick a pussy thread! Move along | |||
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"Everyone is entitled to their opinions on that sort of thing. " with rational people yes, the very nature of debate etc.. however not all are rational.. | |||
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"He doesn't think there's a chance of holding 2 degrees on the current data, all his data is showing 4 degrees in 20 years, not 2 degrees in 80 So we're doomed. Still doesn't mean it's manmade.. But nearly every scientist is in agreement that the current data is showing man made climate change!" That's rubbish too. There are plenty of people that believe all it shows is that we are on a warm part of a cycle. | |||
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" Not quite Mr ddc. The ozone problem didn't fully go away but it did get better through actions we took! Now let's say there were really powerful lobbying groups that spent millions of pounds denying the evidence of CFCs and ozone depletion because it... Well it ruined there business plan.. And mean time while there arguing about CFC production 20 million people have died though skin cancer.... That's more like the problems were facing A minute ago you said it was "tens of thousands". I'd still rather go with general consensus rather than the extremists who advocate locking people up if they don't agree with them and dare to oppose their views. Ironically isn't that why Dachau was opened?" . Well ... What I actually said was it's time to prosecute and jail the habitual liars of corporate giants who willfully spread misinformation just like we did with tobacco and asbestos companies!. These beliefs that people hold against overwhelming scientific evidence don't just come from nowhere you know! | |||
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"He doesn't think there's a chance of holding 2 degrees on the current data, all his data is showing 4 degrees in 20 years, not 2 degrees in 80 So we're doomed. Still doesn't mean it's manmade.. But nearly every scientist is in agreement that the current data is showing man made climate change! That's rubbish too. There are plenty of people that believe all it shows is that we are on a warm part of a cycle. " . You can believe what you want just like Christians and Jews and Muslims can believe what they want. The trouble is there's no evidence to suggest were "just on a warm cycle" | |||
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"He doesn't think there's a chance of holding 2 degrees on the current data, all his data is showing 4 degrees in 20 years, not 2 degrees in 80 So we're doomed. Still doesn't mean it's manmade.. But nearly every scientist is in agreement that the current data is showing man made climate change! That's rubbish too. There are plenty of people that believe all it shows is that we are on a warm part of a cycle. . You can believe what you want just like Christians and Jews and Muslims can believe what they want. The trouble is there's no evidence to suggest were "just on a warm cycle"" There is actually. Boringly I am quite into things like this... And there is plenty out there , just as there is to support any of the many other ideas. Mostly I came across it by accident as I have an interest in how volcanoes have shaped the planet and in many cases that included climate changes. | |||
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"I don't claim to know much about climate change, and I think it's more likely we'll be wiped out in a nuclear war before the climate gets us. What I don't see the point of is starting a 'discussion' on a subject then telling everyone who disagrees with you that they're a brain dead sheep. Sometimes it's best to keep an opinion to yourself, unless of course you're just trolling? People have different opinions, if you don't like people disagreeing with you then don't ask" . Your attacking me personally? With false statements I haven't called anyone brain dead sheep and I'm certainly not trolling and I'm disagreeing about beliefs and science based opinions! | |||
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"He doesn't think there's a chance of holding 2 degrees on the current data, all his data is showing 4 degrees in 20 years, not 2 degrees in 80 So we're doomed. Still doesn't mean it's manmade.. But nearly every scientist is in agreement that the current data is showing man made climate change! That's rubbish too. There are plenty of people that believe all it shows is that we are on a warm part of a cycle. . You can believe what you want just like Christians and Jews and Muslims can believe what they want. The trouble is there's no evidence to suggest were "just on a warm cycle" There is actually. Boringly I am quite into things like this... And there is plenty out there , just as there is to support any of the many other ideas. Mostly I came across it by accident as I have an interest in how volcanoes have shaped the planet and in many cases that included climate changes. " . Well I'd be extremely interested to read it in that case! | |||
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"I don't claim to know much about climate change, and I think it's more likely we'll be wiped out in a nuclear war before the climate gets us. What I don't see the point of is starting a 'discussion' on a subject then telling everyone who disagrees with you that they're a brain dead sheep. Sometimes it's best to keep an opinion to yourself, unless of course you're just trolling? People have different opinions, if you don't like people disagreeing with you then don't ask. Your attacking me personally? With false statements I haven't called anyone brain dead sheep and I'm certainly not trolling and I'm disagreeing about beliefs and science based opinions! " Not a personal attack at all, pointing out that you're coming across as your opinion is only the right one and it sounds like you're dismissing everyone that disagrees, which is not the point of a debate/discussion. You may not have used those words, however it is what your tone is implying, unintentionally or not | |||
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"Why don't we prosecute people who believe in the wrong God? Green activist are no different to religious activists and it is but a small step to go from activist to extremist. Go try pushing non mainstream beliefs in a country less tolerant than ours and see how far it gets you. Be grateful that you live in a society that will tolerate your suggestions rather than throw you in jail for being non mainstream and therefore a threat." A sensible post. (One of the few!) While we're at it, let's prosecute the people that deny the existence of any god. | |||
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"He doesn't think there's a chance of holding 2 degrees on the current data, all his data is showing 4 degrees in 20 years, not 2 degrees in 80 So we're doomed. Still doesn't mean it's manmade.. But nearly every scientist is in agreement that the current data is showing man made climate change! That's rubbish too. There are plenty of people that believe all it shows is that we are on a warm part of a cycle. . You can believe what you want just like Christians and Jews and Muslims can believe what they want. The trouble is there's no evidence to suggest were "just on a warm cycle" There is actually. Boringly I am quite into things like this... And there is plenty out there , just as there is to support any of the many other ideas. Mostly I came across it by accident as I have an interest in how volcanoes have shaped the planet and in many cases that included climate changes. . Well I'd be extremely interested to read it in that case!" Look for research papers on climate effects of volcanic eruptions. In early 1800s there was an eruption that caused a year without summer due to the ash in the atmosphere. Mt tambaro I think it was. There are some scary but interesting papers out there. And I worry more about the two overdue super volcano eruptions than us doing damage, and I worry about north Korea just being crazy enough to use nuclear power.. | |||
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"So I've spent the weekend with a whole lot of green party members and you realise there's a spectrum of beliefs amongst us on how to tackle issues. Primarily I was sat discussing climate change with about 20 other people and it seems the majority of us have come to the conclusion that it's time we just started prosecuting companies and jailing people that just continually spend millions in denial propaganda, there no different than the tobacco companies and asbestos giants of years gone by, only there working on an even grander scale!. People inside the climate change science are telling you things in private that are really really alarming" On the other hand,are they the same people who calculated how many trees on the planet. Then said OOPS!!,we made a wee miscalculation,there's actually 8 trillion more trees than we first thought
The same people who calculated how many stars there are in the universe.
Then said OOPS!!we made a wee miscalculation,there's actually 3to 5 times more than we first thought.
Now call me a scynic,but I'm having real problems believing anything they say.
So Burn the witches wasn't really justice back then.
I'm thinking,maybe it's not really going to be justice now.
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"I don't claim to know much about climate change, and I think it's more likely we'll be wiped out in a nuclear war before the climate gets us. What I don't see the point of is starting a 'discussion' on a subject then telling everyone who disagrees with you that they're a brain dead sheep. Sometimes it's best to keep an opinion to yourself, unless of course you're just trolling? People have different opinions, if you don't like people disagreeing with you then don't ask. Your attacking me personally? With false statements I haven't called anyone brain dead sheep and I'm certainly not trolling and I'm disagreeing about beliefs and science based opinions! Not a personal attack at all, pointing out that you're coming across as your opinion is only the right one and it sounds like you're dismissing everyone that disagrees, which is not the point of a debate/discussion. You may not have used those words, however it is what your tone is implying, unintentionally or not " . Well I'm sorry you feel it comes across that way. What I'm saying to people is... There's a huge difference to an opinion based on no evidence and an opinion based on the scientific data to hand... So I might like driving cars as an opinion but I might say driving cars is not good for climate change! According to recent study by MIT, they concluded that 70% of the oil in the ground today, can't be used if we wish to keep under the 2 degree limit... See that's not opinion, that's just maths based on scientific data. Your opinion could be... Fuck it, I don't care... That's a legitimate opinion based on your beliefs of not giving a shit. | |||
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"So I've spent the weekend with a whole lot of green party members and you realise there's a spectrum of beliefs amongst us on how to tackle issues. Primarily I was sat discussing climate change with about 20 other people and it seems the majority of us have come to the conclusion that it's time we just started prosecuting companies and jailing people that just continually spend millions in denial propaganda, there no different than the tobacco companies and asbestos giants of years gone by, only there working on an even grander scale!. People inside the climate change science are telling you things in private that are really really alarming On the other hand,are they the same people who calculated how many trees on the planet. Then said OOPS!!,we made a wee miscalculation,there's actually 8 trillion more trees than we first thought
The same people who calculated how many stars there are in the universe.
Then said OOPS!!we made a wee miscalculation,there's actually 3to 5 times more than we first thought.
Now call me a scynic,but I'm having real problems believing anything they say.
So Burn the witches wasn't really justice back then.
I'm thinking,maybe it's not really going to be justice now.
"Burn the witches.grrrrrrrr | |||
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"He doesn't think there's a chance of holding 2 degrees on the current data, all his data is showing 4 degrees in 20 years, not 2 degrees in 80 So we're doomed. Still doesn't mean it's manmade.. But nearly every scientist is in agreement that the current data is showing man made climate change! That's rubbish too. There are plenty of people that believe all it shows is that we are on a warm part of a cycle. . You can believe what you want just like Christians and Jews and Muslims can believe what they want. The trouble is there's no evidence to suggest were "just on a warm cycle" There is actually. Boringly I am quite into things like this... And there is plenty out there , just as there is to support any of the many other ideas. Mostly I came across it by accident as I have an interest in how volcanoes have shaped the planet and in many cases that included climate changes. . Well I'd be extremely interested to read it in that case!" There's quite a lot of evidence on the NERC (National Environmental Research Council). I work with scientists that look into environmental issues and I know of none that will say that global warming IS definitely manmade. Most seem to think it probably is but lack proof. They ALL agree that if it doesn't change there will be massive social changes and that actions, like reducing fossil fuel usage, may not help but will do no harm either. | |||
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"He doesn't think there's a chance of holding 2 degrees on the current data, all his data is showing 4 degrees in 20 years, not 2 degrees in 80 So we're doomed. Still doesn't mean it's manmade.. But nearly every scientist is in agreement that the current data is showing man made climate change! That's rubbish too. There are plenty of people that believe all it shows is that we are on a warm part of a cycle. . You can believe what you want just like Christians and Jews and Muslims can believe what they want. The trouble is there's no evidence to suggest were "just on a warm cycle" There is actually. Boringly I am quite into things like this... And there is plenty out there , just as there is to support any of the many other ideas. Mostly I came across it by accident as I have an interest in how volcanoes have shaped the planet and in many cases that included climate changes. . Well I'd be extremely interested to read it in that case! Look for research papers on climate effects of volcanic eruptions. In early 1800s there was an eruption that caused a year without summer due to the ash in the atmosphere. Mt tambaro I think it was. There are some scary but interesting papers out there. And I worry more about the two overdue super volcano eruptions than us doing damage, and I worry about north Korea just being crazy enough to use nuclear power.. " . You don't need to look that far! I can point you to a peer reviewed paper by a Danish glacier researcher on the effects of mount Pinatubo on Greenland glaciers.. The earth actually cooled 1 degree from its eruption in 1991. It's research from many cases like that, that's showed how climate change works. So in Pinatubos case although it emitted millions of tonnes of c02, that effect was negated by the hundreds of millions of tonnes of fine ash that blanketed solar radiation from entering the atmosphere for a few years. We know that 99.99% of the earth's heat energy comes from the sun, we know that a large amount is reflected back into space by white ice and snow, we know that c02 traps that infrared radiation being reflected back into space, we know the biggest climate forces are methane and water vapour and we know that the warmer the earth gets the less ice and snow and more water vapour the atmosphere will hold... These are basic sciences. C02 and infrared radiation was first found by scientists in the 1800s. | |||
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"So I've spent the weekend with a whole lot of green party members and you realise there's a spectrum of beliefs amongst us on how to tackle issues. Primarily I was sat discussing climate change with about 20 other people and it seems the majority of us have come to the conclusion that it's time we just started prosecuting companies and jailing people that just continually spend millions in denial propaganda, there no different than the tobacco companies and asbestos giants of years gone by, only there working on an even grander scale!. People inside the climate change science are telling you things in private that are really really alarming On the other hand,are they the same people who calculated how many trees on the planet. Then said OOPS!!,we made a wee miscalculation,there's actually 8 trillion more trees than we first thought
The same people who calculated how many stars there are in the universe.
Then said OOPS!!we made a wee miscalculation,there's actually 3to 5 times more than we first thought.
Now call me a scynic,but I'm having real problems believing anything they say.
So Burn the witches wasn't really justice back then.
I'm thinking,maybe it's not really going to be justice now.
". So you don't use a car?.. You know that petroleum stuff was invented by scientists!. No mobile phone, no cancer drugs, no antibiotics, you don't use rubber or neoprene, you don't sit on a foam padded sofa or travel on electric trains or use any electricity.... Oh wait you just mean those other scientists talk shit... The ones not doing stuff you like! Crazy as it most scientists get into science because they like finding things out, they like finding out what made the earth, what made oil, what you can make from oil, how climate works, how it gets effected by the stuff they made from oil, how using other stuff might help, It's not the grand plot to depose you of tax you think... And I'll tell you why... The government took more tax's from you long before scientists discovered the problem of c02 and climate change... Yes the government might jump on a band wagon (there opportunistic cunts) But grand conspiracy of tens of thousands of scientists manufacturing data to show the opposite it's not | |||
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"So I've spent the weekend with a whole lot of green party members and you realise there's a spectrum of beliefs amongst us on how to tackle issues. Primarily I was sat discussing climate change with about 20 other people and it seems the majority of us have come to the conclusion that it's time we just started prosecuting companies and jailing people that just continually spend millions in denial propaganda, there no different than the tobacco companies and asbestos giants of years gone by, only there working on an even grander scale!. People inside the climate change science are telling you things in private that are really really alarming On the other hand,are they the same people who calculated how many trees on the planet. Then said OOPS!!,we made a wee miscalculation,there's actually 8 trillion more trees than we first thought
The same people who calculated how many stars there are in the universe.
Then said OOPS!!we made a wee miscalculation,there's actually 3to 5 times more than we first thought.
Now call me a scynic,but I'm having real problems believing anything they say.
So Burn the witches wasn't really justice back then.
I'm thinking,maybe it's not really going to be justice now.
.
So you don't use a car?.. You know that petroleum stuff was invented by scientists!.
No mobile phone, no cancer drugs, no antibiotics, you don't use rubber or neoprene, you don't sit on a foam padded sofa or travel on electric trains or use any electricity....
Oh wait you just mean those other scientists talk shit... The ones not doing stuff you like!
Crazy as it most scientists get into science because they like finding things out, they like finding out what made the earth, what made oil, what you can make from oil, how climate works, how it gets effected by the stuff they made from oil, how using other stuff might help,
It's not the grand plot to depose you of tax you think...
And I'll tell you why... The government took more tax's from you long before scientists discovered the problem of c02 and climate change... Yes the government might jump on a band wagon (there opportunistic cunts)
But grand conspiracy of tens of thousands of scientists manufacturing data to show the opposite it's not "I'm just not comfortable relying on information from people,who think being wrong,to the tune of 8 trillion is OK. They may not always be wrong,and yes sometimes they are fucking brilliantly brilliant. Having said that,8 trillion is quite a lot. So I'm taking everything they say,with a pinch of salt. | |||
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"So I've spent the weekend with a whole lot of green party members and you realise there's a spectrum of beliefs amongst us on how to tackle issues. Primarily I was sat discussing climate change with about 20 other people and it seems the majority of us have come to the conclusion that it's time we just started prosecuting companies and jailing people that just continually spend millions in denial propaganda, there no different than the tobacco companies and asbestos giants of years gone by, only there working on an even grander scale!. People inside the climate change science are telling you things in private that are really really alarming On the other hand,are they the same people who calculated how many trees on the planet. Then said OOPS!!,we made a wee miscalculation,there's actually 8 trillion more trees than we first thought
The same people who calculated how many stars there are in the universe.
Then said OOPS!!we made a wee miscalculation,there's actually 3to 5 times more than we first thought.
Now call me a scynic,but I'm having real problems believing anything they say.
So Burn the witches wasn't really justice back then.
I'm thinking,maybe it's not really going to be justice now.
.
So you don't use a car?.. You know that petroleum stuff was invented by scientists!.
No mobile phone, no cancer drugs, no antibiotics, you don't use rubber or neoprene, you don't sit on a foam padded sofa or travel on electric trains or use any electricity....
Oh wait you just mean those other scientists talk shit... The ones not doing stuff you like!
Crazy as it most scientists get into science because they like finding things out, they like finding out what made the earth, what made oil, what you can make from oil, how climate works, how it gets effected by the stuff they made from oil, how using other stuff might help,
It's not the grand plot to depose you of tax you think...
And I'll tell you why... The government took more tax's from you long before scientists discovered the problem of c02 and climate change... Yes the government might jump on a band wagon (there opportunistic cunts)
But grand conspiracy of tens of thousands of scientists manufacturing data to show the opposite it's not
I'm just not comfortable relying on information from people,who think being wrong,to the tune of 8 trillion is OK.
They may not always be wrong,and yes sometimes they are fucking brilliantly brilliant.
Having said that,8 trillion is quite a lot.
So I'm taking everything they say,with a pinch of salt.
"Only Googled it so obviously not exactly definitive but it reckons 3 trillion which seems a tad more feasible than 8 trillion. Maybe we should prosecute people who use Google? Please? Clap me in irons! | |||
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"Can we start by having Nigel Lawson muzzled?" I'd like to muzzle Nigella Lawson - on my cock and id let her too but only if she made me a cake. | |||
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"And can someone at least acknowledge my joke earlier on in the thread? Denier/transparent....... "did it snag..? there are some tight sods on here re praise.. | |||
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"I've just spent a weekend with a guy who's a thirty year expert on climatology in a very top UK university!.... He doesn't think there's a chance of holding 2 degrees on the current data, all his data is showing 4 degrees in 20 years, not 2 degrees in 80" That's handy then, the human race will be extinct before the petrol runs out, so no need for renewable's... Though sorry, I don't believe it to be true. | |||
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"So I've spent the weekend with a whole lot of green party members and you realise there's a spectrum of beliefs amongst us on how to tackle issues. Primarily I was sat discussing climate change with about 20 other people and it seems the majority of us have come to the conclusion that it's time we just started prosecuting companies and jailing people that just continually spend millions in denial propaganda, there no different than the tobacco companies and asbestos giants of years gone by, only there working on an even grander scale!. People inside the climate change science are telling you things in private that are really really alarming" So you want to prosecute people for speaking the truth : 1984 really has become a reality a few years late. Climate change is a result of the natural cycle of the earth. The planet is currently emerging from an ice age and will carry on warming whether man is here or not for a few thousand years before it starts cooling again. Then it will cool until it dips into another ice age just like it has always done. Rather than waste billions trying to hold back the inevitable mankind would be better learning to live with change and adapt to what is to come. On the other had we could go down to the beach and command the tide to retreat. | |||
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"And can someone at least acknowledge my joke earlier on in the thread? Denier/transparent.......
did it snag..?
there are some tight sods on here re praise.. "Some of us are stocking up on puns | |||
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"Spotted this, came to make tights and stockings comment, spotted that I was 140 comments too late... Shuffles out quietly... " You can always claim there were some hold ups getting here? | |||
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"Spotted this, came to make tights and stockings comment, spotted that I was 140 comments too late... Shuffles out quietly... You can always claim there were some hold ups getting here?" Or just sheer bad luck | |||
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"And can someone at least acknowledge my joke earlier on in the thread? Denier/transparent.......
did it snag..?
there are some tight sods on here re praise..
Some of us are stocking up on puns "some of us run out.. wrong word i know.. | |||
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"So I've spent the weekend with a whole lot of green party members and you realise there's a spectrum of beliefs amongst us on how to tackle issues. Primarily I was sat discussing climate change with about 20 other people and it seems the majority of us have come to the conclusion that it's time we just started prosecuting companies and jailing people that just continually spend millions in denial propaganda, there no different than the tobacco companies and asbestos giants of years gone by, only there working on an even grander scale!. People inside the climate change science are telling you things in private that are really really alarming On the other hand,are they the same people who calculated how many trees on the planet. Then said OOPS!!,we made a wee miscalculation,there's actually 8 trillion more trees than we first thought
The same people who calculated how many stars there are in the universe.
Then said OOPS!!we made a wee miscalculation,there's actually 3to 5 times more than we first thought.
Now call me a scynic,but I'm having real problems believing anything they say.
So Burn the witches wasn't really justice back then.
I'm thinking,maybe it's not really going to be justice now.
.
So you don't use a car?.. You know that petroleum stuff was invented by scientists!.
No mobile phone, no cancer drugs, no antibiotics, you don't use rubber or neoprene, you don't sit on a foam padded sofa or travel on electric trains or use any electricity....
Oh wait you just mean those other scientists talk shit... The ones not doing stuff you like!
Crazy as it most scientists get into science because they like finding things out, they like finding out what made the earth, what made oil, what you can make from oil, how climate works, how it gets effected by the stuff they made from oil, how using other stuff might help,
It's not the grand plot to depose you of tax you think...
And I'll tell you why... The government took more tax's from you long before scientists discovered the problem of c02 and climate change... Yes the government might jump on a band wagon (there opportunistic cunts)
But grand conspiracy of tens of thousands of scientists manufacturing data to show the opposite it's not
I'm just not comfortable relying on information from people,who think being wrong,to the tune of 8 trillion is OK.
They may not always be wrong,and yes sometimes they are fucking brilliantly brilliant.
Having said that,8 trillion is quite a lot.
So I'm taking everything they say,with a pinch of salt.
Only Googled it so obviously not exactly definitive but it reckons 3 trillion which seems a tad more feasible than 8 trillion. Maybe we should prosecute people who use Google? Please? Clap me in irons!"Oh jesus!! Only 3 trillion now,that's close enough. Sign me up for the flat earth society. No!no!! Wait a minute.I'll wait and see if they change there minds next week again.
Ps I find people who have an agenda,usually find what they're looking for.
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"Fuck me! I only clicked on this thread cos I thought it was about stockings How bloody disappointed am i "That's the forums for you, a bit like a game of snakes and ladders | |||
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"So I've spent the weekend with a whole lot of green party members and you realise there's a spectrum of beliefs amongst us on how to tackle issues. Primarily I was sat discussing climate change with about 20 other people and it seems the majority of us have come to the conclusion that it's time we just started prosecuting companies and jailing people that just continually spend millions in denial propaganda, there no different than the tobacco companies and asbestos giants of years gone by, only there working on an even grander scale!. People inside the climate change science are telling you things in private that are really really alarming So you want to prosecute people for speaking the truth : 1984 really has become a reality a few years late. Climate change is a result of the natural cycle of the earth. The planet is currently emerging from an ice age and will carry on warming whether man is here or not for a few thousand years before it starts cooling again. Then it will cool until it dips into another ice age just like it has always done. Rather than waste billions trying to hold back the inevitable mankind would be better learning to live with change and adapt to what is to come. On the other had we could go down to the beach and command the tide to retreat. " . Firstly.... Climate is NOT inherently cyclical and never has been, no scientist in the world ever thinks that the earth cools then warms then cools then warms etc etc. The climate does occasionally go into ice ages and warm periods, that is true, scientists discovered that over a hundred years ago, but.... There is still a forcing for a natural variance, the earth just doesn't decide to cool or warm up for nothing!. So 30 years ago they looked and have kept looking for all those years for a forcing driver... Could it be increased solar radiation?.. No solar is down for the last 20 years, whereas temperature is up. Could it be increased or decreased volcanic activity.. No it's been pretty flat for most of the 30 years?. Glacial cycle, could we be in a glacial cycle, well actually the natural glacial cycle is positive and we should actually be increasing glacial activity not decreasing... The fact of the matter is that scientists have studied natural variance for 30 years and found no supporting evidence, no forcing agent, no data. What they have found is that temperate has increased with greenhouse gas emissions.... Man made c02 output is up, so is methane and so is the temperature and all the data supports that theory!!!! Unless you have some evidence that your not telling anybody? | |||
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"Hello Sexybum, "But nearly every scientist is in agreement that the current data is showing man made climate change!" That is half the story, less than 10% of scientists in that field believe that it is the only cause and is serious. Many can accept the theory but see little significant warming. So much climate data is adjusted no one can really trust it anymore? The Green party are full of self righteous members who are so convinced that they don't listen to an alternative view, merely calling them names rather than discussing the subject. That and the proposals to eliminate fossil fuels are not workable. The only possible way to reduce fossil fuel use is with nuclear power generation, but the Greens don't like that and push for the proven to be unworkable at the levels they want of wind and solar power. Alec" . Where's your evidence that 10% of climate experts claim this!!! You just make stuff up, or read it on the back of cornflake packets! Where's your evidence that renewables don't work! Last time I looked Germany was hitting 50% renewable targets while dismasting nuclear power... "Many can except the theory but see no evidence of warming" Alec that's a dammed lie no different than any other crazy denial bullshit.... Every figure recorded shows warming, the last 50 years have had massive warming, the last 16 years are the warmest 16 years ever recorded... Every trend you could possibly measure is up... Including man made c02 output | |||
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"You can't prosecute the deniers because they're correct, archaeolog/history shows clearly that climate change is cyclical. The idea of manmade climate change was dreampt up as a way to I.pose green taxes. We should just jail Al Gore instead. Oh dear. That would be a great conspiracy theory if there actually were huge green taxes. Instead governments are still lobbied and bought off by traditional energy companies. " The ONS, in a report of 1st June 2015, states that environmental taxes in the UK raised £45 BILLION in 2014, or 2.5% of GDP - That's 25% more than our defence budget. Not an insignificant amount. The same report said that every household in the country paid £765 in environmental taxes in 2012. To pay that amount, someone on average pay would have to earn about £1100 per year before tax. Plus then there is employer's NI on top of this of about £150. So the gross amount in total is about £1,250 per household per annum. Hardly small potatoes. | |||
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"Hello Sexybum, "But nearly every scientist is in agreement that the current data is showing man made climate change!" That is half the story, less than 10% of scientists in that field believe that it is the only cause and is serious. Many can accept the theory but see little significant warming. So much climate data is adjusted no one can really trust it anymore? The Green party are full of self righteous members who are so convinced that they don't listen to an alternative view, merely calling them names rather than discussing the subject. That and the proposals to eliminate fossil fuels are not workable. The only possible way to reduce fossil fuel use is with nuclear power generation, but the Greens don't like that and push for the proven to be unworkable at the levels they want of wind and solar power. Alec" You have that the wrong way round. Less than 10% do not support the IPCC point of view. Or more precisely less than 3%. The overwhelming majority of scientists working in the field support the IPCC. | |||
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"Every figure recorded shows warming, the last 50 years have had massive warming, the last 16 years are the warmest 16 years ever recorded... Every trend you could possibly measure is up... Including man made c02 output "There has been an upward trend in temperatures since about 11,700 years (approx) we are still emerging from that ice age, and yes burning fossil fuels has helped the process along in the last 100 years quite nicely. BUT the fact is it was happening and will happen no matter what we do then or now. The human input may speed it up, but it is as natural to this planet as spinning while rotating. Wind turbines are not the answer, population reduction, is the only answer, and you can be assured if WE don't do it then it will happen anyway. Alternatives to fossil fuel are nothing to do with emissions, simply they are needed as fossil fuel is a restricted quantity and we will run out of it. Scientists that have tried to work against the theory of MAN MADE global warming have been starved out as governments and other major funding sources only fund what will earn them more money or serve the agenda they wish to sell. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, if you go looking to prove your theory you can probably find your evidence, well how about the evidence that for 85% of the existence of this planet there has been no ice on either the north or south pole. i.e. we as a species have existed ONLY during an ice age which is totally unnatural to this planet. | |||
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"What happenned to the hole in the ozone layer that was going to get bigger and bigger and fry us all, according to some scientists/doom mongers? Oh ye, it grew back didn't it?. It grew back because we stopped emitting millions of tonnes of CFCs that caused it?... Hang on, so scientists around the world came up with a solution, got the politicians on board, and sorted it. All without locking anyone up. Sounds a sensible way forward to me... Mr ddc" You keep on using the word sensible. I don't think it means what you think it means...... | |||
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"So I've spent the weekend with a whole lot of green party members and you realise there's a spectrum of beliefs amongst us on how to tackle issues. Primarily I was sat discussing climate change with about 20 other people and it seems the majority of us have come to the conclusion that it's time we just started prosecuting companies and jailing people that just continually spend millions in denial propaganda, there no different than the tobacco companies and asbestos giants of years gone by, only there working on an even grander scale!. People inside the climate change science are telling you things in private that are really really alarming So you want to prosecute people for speaking the truth : 1984 really has become a reality a few years late. Climate change is a result of the natural cycle of the earth. The planet is currently emerging from an ice age and will carry on warming whether man is here or not for a few thousand years before it starts cooling again. Then it will cool until it dips into another ice age just like it has always done. Rather than waste billions trying to hold back the inevitable mankind would be better learning to live with change and adapt to what is to come. On the other had we could go down to the beach and command the tide to retreat. . Firstly.... Climate is NOT inherently cyclical and never has been, no scientist in the world ever thinks that the earth cools then warms then cools then warms etc etc. The climate does occasionally go into ice ages and warm periods, that is true, scientists discovered that over a hundred years ago, but.... There is still a forcing for a natural variance, the earth just doesn't decide to cool or warm up for nothing!. So 30 years ago they looked and have kept looking for all those years for a forcing driver... Could it be increased solar radiation?.. No solar is down for the last 20 years, whereas temperature is up. Could it be increased or decreased volcanic activity.. No it's been pretty flat for most of the 30 years?. Glacial cycle, could we be in a glacial cycle, well actually the natural glacial cycle is positive and we should actually be increasing glacial activity not decreasing... The fact of the matter is that scientists have studied natural variance for 30 years and found no supporting evidence, no forcing agent, no data. What they have found is that temperate has increased with greenhouse gas emissions.... Man made c02 output is up, so is methane and so is the temperature and all the data supports that theory!!!! Unless you have some evidence that your not telling anybody?" OP, I think you're about to dissappear up your own rear end. "Firstly.... Climate is NOT inherently cyclical and never has been, no scientist in the world ever thinks that the earth cools then warms then cools then warms etc etc. The climate does occasionally go into ice ages and warm periods, that is true, scientists discovered that over a hundred years ago, but...." So in your own words, no scientist thinks the earth cools and warms up, but some scientists discovered that the earth goes cold then warms up. You do make me chuckle. | |||
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"OP, you may be too obsessed about CO2 effects. There are many other factors that influence climate change which have nothing to do with human activity. Even the IPCC accept the Milankovitch factors. Those factors themselves are complex and difficult to combine, making any estimate of the effect of CO2 very difficult." There is nothing better at winding up the believers than using big numbers and large percentages so as to make their argument blatantly obvious. 25% increase in CO2 emmissions is a figure I have heard bandied about and it sounds just by the amount stated that it must surely have some consequence.... Of course what is rarely mentioned is just how little CO2 there actually is anyway (we are talking minuscule amounts) and just how really irrelevant it is when compared to water vapour and methane as a greenhouse gas. The insignificant amount of CO2,in comparison to the amount of water vapour and methane which are produced mainly by direct (solar) heating and geological activities respectively, mean that climate "models" for the effects of CO2 have to be estimated taking into account enormous and unpredictable variables. Perhaps the reason that the green, extremist terrorists want non believers to be locked up is because the lie is unravelling and it is their last gasp efforts at securing their agenda? | |||
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"I'm all for a cleaner greener world but until the climate change nazis start addressing and focusing on the real issues then I'm not going to get excited. We have lost massive amounts of rainforest around the world and if you destroy the lungs of the planet you're fucked. No amount of green initiatives and taxes are going to change that , the damage has been done ,we can only limit further damage. Population, this is still not being addressed as seriously as it should have been years ago. Too much of a hot potato but the fact is too many on the planet and will inevitably create huge problems." Totally agree with both your points. | |||
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" You trot out the same bullshit about cyclical climate change.. Fuck me it took 3 million years to go into and come out of an ice age and were looking at doing it in 150 years "Hang on a minute the last Ice age was only two million years ago so it seems we have another million years to go until we are out of it give or take a minute or two. The last glacial period was only 11,000 years ago a blink of an eye in the life of the earth. Why it was only in the 1970s that many of the climate change scientists were claiming we were going into a new ice age. | |||
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"This is a very highbrow debate,so here is my offering. ... When cows fart they release methane into the atmosphere Dirty bastards" Not only cows who produce hot air | |||
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"So I've spent the weekend with a whole lot of green party members and you realise there's a spectrum of beliefs amongst us on how to tackle issues. Primarily I was sat discussing climate change with about 20 other people and it seems the majority of us have come to the conclusion that it's time we just started prosecuting companies and jailing people that just continually spend millions in denial propaganda, there no different than the tobacco companies and asbestos giants of years gone by, only there working on an even grander scale!. People inside the climate change science are telling you things in private that are really really alarming" . Those in the climate change industry just want to push their own beliefs . We don't have to accept anything that they say as being true . Some may just be using scare tactics in order to increase funding . What evidence have they any produced to show that any of their fundings are valid ?. | |||
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"This is a very highbrow debate,so here is my offering. ... When cows fart they release methane into the atmosphere Dirty bastards" Cattle, sheep, goats etc produce about 20% of the methane going into the atmosphere. Human activity produces about 60% of the methane going into the atmosphere. What does that make humans? | |||
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"This is a very highbrow debate,so here is my offering. ... When cows fart they release methane into the atmosphere Dirty bastards Cattle, sheep, goats etc produce about 20% of the methane going into the atmosphere. Human activity produces about 60% of the methane going into the atmosphere. What does that make humans?" A right bunch of old farts | |||
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" . What evidence have they any produced to show that any of their fundings are valid ?." That is a little too simplistic. Much is discussed above or Google it all. Bleedin' complex. | |||
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