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Dealing with plebs
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
Gah...having an online 'debate' (non Fab) with a friends wife about having tattoos on show and how it affects employment in certain industries (irrelevant)
However she cant hold down a job due to being lazy and has no concept of 'real life' so she is just banging her drum to her simple little idealistic concepts while playing world of warcraft all bloody day. I cant even get shouty as she is my best friends wife!!
Does anyone else have to deal with idiots like this? |
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By *dinMan
over a year ago
Birmingham |
"Gah...having an online 'debate' (non Fab) with a friends wife about having tattoos on show and how it affects employment in certain industries (irrelevant)
However she cant hold down a job due to being lazy and has no concept of 'real life' so she is just banging her drum to her simple little idealistic concepts while playing world of warcraft all bloody day. I cant even get shouty as she is my best friends wife!!
Does anyone else have to deal with idiots like this?"
the world is full of them unfortunately and these days most of them are becoming celebrities by being on some reality TV show!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Gah...having an online 'debate' (non Fab) with a friends wife about having tattoos on show and how it affects employment in certain industries (irrelevant)
However she cant hold down a job due to being lazy and has no concept of 'real life' so she is just banging her drum to her simple little idealistic concepts while playing world of warcraft all bloody day. I cant even get shouty as she is my best friends wife!!
Does anyone else have to deal with idiots like this?"
Nope. I avoid idiots in my life. ...It's why i have very few friends |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Gah...having an online 'debate' (non Fab) with a friends wife about having tattoos on show and how it affects employment in certain industries (irrelevant)
However she cant hold down a job due to being lazy and has no concept of 'real life' so she is just banging her drum to her simple little idealistic concepts while playing world of warcraft all bloody day. I cant even get shouty as she is my best friends wife!!
Does anyone else have to deal with idiots like this?"
Ex-chief whip Andrew Mitchell probably the best person for advice on plebs 
G. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"And why does her being lazy affect the conversation?"
Because she has no concept of holding down a real job. She has an idealised notion that having tattoos shouldnt affect your employment...however would a barrister with neck/facial tattoos be taken seriously?
The actual debate wasnt the issue. It was her inability to look outside her own little world to what happens in real life... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And why does her being lazy affect the conversation?
Because she has no concept of holding down a real job. She has an idealised notion that having tattoos shouldnt affect your employment...however would a barrister with neck/facial tattoos be taken seriously?
The actual debate wasnt the issue. It was her inability to look outside her own little world to what happens in real life..."
She is right on that though, tattoos are superficial and shouldn't affect your ability to get a job.
I personally couldn't give shit abut working with the general public again, but if i did want to and my tattoos were used against me then that's not right.
People should be taken seriously for their skills, not their appearance, nor the effort they put into that. It's bigotry, pure and simple. |
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People who are different from us aren't automatically stupid - they're just different. People who are less bright than us in some ways certainly do exist, but disliking them or possibly wanting to punish them for being less gifted is also unfair.
We have our own journeys in life and find our own ways to keep on our track. Who knows what others have been through, what their pains are, their real needs. Sometimes a career path is the least of all concerns.
As you have a friend who's partnered to this woman it's fair to be supportive and helpful. Haranging someone isn't supportive and being harsh will often result in someone becoming even more entrenched in their position - so usually the opposite of what you'd want.
Have the grace to give others their space. Let them feel honoured and respected, even if they may know that you don't like their behaviour that much. Someone wants to live a different lifestyle to you - that's OK. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"And why does her being lazy affect the conversation?
Because she has no concept of holding down a real job. She has an idealised notion that having tattoos shouldnt affect your employment...however would a barrister with neck/facial tattoos be taken seriously?
The actual debate wasnt the issue. It was her inability to look outside her own little world to what happens in real life...
She is right on that though, tattoos are superficial and shouldn't affect your ability to get a job.
I personally couldn't give shit abut working with the general public again, but if i did want to and my tattoos were used against me then that's not right.
People should be taken seriously for their skills, not their appearance, nor the effort they put into that. It's bigotry, pure and simple."
Anyone seeking employment has a duty to themselves to do, or not do, whatever it takes to make that happen.
I've never met or heard of anyone discriminated against for not having tattoos. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"And why does her being lazy affect the conversation?
Because she has no concept of holding down a real job. She has an idealised notion that having tattoos shouldnt affect your employment...however would a barrister with neck/facial tattoos be taken seriously?
The actual debate wasnt the issue. It was her inability to look outside her own little world to what happens in real life...
She is right on that though, tattoos are superficial and shouldn't affect your ability to get a job.
I personally couldn't give shit abut working with the general public again, but if i did want to and my tattoos were used against me then that's not right.
People should be taken seriously for their skills, not their appearance, nor the effort they put into that. It's bigotry, pure and simple."
Unfortunately it will always be that way in certain industries. Every employee is an ambassador for the company. If the person cannot represent the company in a way deemed fitting for that company then they are obviously not a suitable employee.
It is also to do with the customers expectations. If they are not being met, or if the company will lose money due to an employees choices then the company will not hire that person. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And why does her being lazy affect the conversation?
Because she has no concept of holding down a real job. She has an idealised notion that having tattoos shouldnt affect your employment...however would a barrister with neck/facial tattoos be taken seriously?
The actual debate wasnt the issue. It was her inability to look outside her own little world to what happens in real life...
She is right on that though, tattoos are superficial and shouldn't affect your ability to get a job.
I personally couldn't give shit abut working with the general public again, but if i did want to and my tattoos were used against me then that's not right.
People should be taken seriously for their skills, not their appearance, nor the effort they put into that. It's bigotry, pure and simple.
Unfortunately it will always be that way in certain industries. Every employee is an ambassador for the company. If the person cannot represent the company in a way deemed fitting for that company then they are obviously not a suitable employee.
It is also to do with the customers expectations. If they are not being met, or if the company will lose money due to an employees choices then the company will not hire that person."
Yeah i know that. I just think it's stupid and bigoted. But we live in an era that focuses more on looks than anything else, and have done for decades now. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"And why does her being lazy affect the conversation?
Because she has no concept of holding down a real job. She has an idealised notion that having tattoos shouldnt affect your employment...however would a barrister with neck/facial tattoos be taken seriously?
The actual debate wasnt the issue. It was her inability to look outside her own little world to what happens in real life...
She is right on that though, tattoos are superficial and shouldn't affect your ability to get a job.
I personally couldn't give shit abut working with the general public again, but if i did want to and my tattoos were used against me then that's not right.
People should be taken seriously for their skills, not their appearance, nor the effort they put into that. It's bigotry, pure and simple.
Unfortunately it will always be that way in certain industries. Every employee is an ambassador for the company. If the person cannot represent the company in a way deemed fitting for that company then they are obviously not a suitable employee.
It is also to do with the customers expectations. If they are not being met, or if the company will lose money due to an employees choices then the company will not hire that person.
Yeah i know that. I just think it's stupid and bigoted. But we live in an era that focuses more on looks than anything else, and have done for decades now. "
Its not really bigotry, its more social norm and economics |
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"Gah...having an online 'debate' (non Fab) with a friends wife about having tattoos on show and how it affects employment in certain industries (irrelevant)
However she cant hold down a job due to being lazy and has no concept of 'real life' so she is just banging her drum to her simple little idealistic concepts while playing world of warcraft all bloody day. I cant even get shouty as she is my best friends wife!!
Does anyone else have to deal with idiots like this?"
Some people always have an excuse for why they fail. It is never that they have done something wrong. It is always something someone else is doing wrong.
There is usually one common factor though, they end up without what they want and the world is to blame. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And why does her being lazy affect the conversation?
Because she has no concept of holding down a real job. She has an idealised notion that having tattoos shouldnt affect your employment...however would a barrister with neck/facial tattoos be taken seriously?
The actual debate wasnt the issue. It was her inability to look outside her own little world to what happens in real life...
She is right on that though, tattoos are superficial and shouldn't affect your ability to get a job.
I personally couldn't give shit abut working with the general public again, but if i did want to and my tattoos were used against me then that's not right.
People should be taken seriously for their skills, not their appearance, nor the effort they put into that. It's bigotry, pure and simple.
Unfortunately it will always be that way in certain industries. Every employee is an ambassador for the company. If the person cannot represent the company in a way deemed fitting for that company then they are obviously not a suitable employee.
It is also to do with the customers expectations. If they are not being met, or if the company will lose money due to an employees choices then the company will not hire that person.
Yeah i know that. I just think it's stupid and bigoted. But we live in an era that focuses more on looks than anything else, and have done for decades now.
Its not really bigotry, its more social norm and economics"
It's based on appearances. It might be societies norm but it's still bigoted.
Normal doesn't mean ethically correct. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And why does her being lazy affect the conversation?
Because she has no concept of holding down a real job. She has an idealised notion that having tattoos shouldnt affect your employment...however would a barrister with neck/facial tattoos be taken seriously?
The actual debate wasnt the issue. It was her inability to look outside her own little world to what happens in real life...
She is right on that though, tattoos are superficial and shouldn't affect your ability to get a job.
I personally couldn't give shit abut working with the general public again, but if i did want to and my tattoos were used against me then that's not right.
People should be taken seriously for their skills, not their appearance, nor the effort they put into that. It's bigotry, pure and simple.
Unfortunately it will always be that way in certain industries. Every employee is an ambassador for the company. If the person cannot represent the company in a way deemed fitting for that company then they are obviously not a suitable employee.
It is also to do with the customers expectations. If they are not being met, or if the company will lose money due to an employees choices then the company will not hire that person.
Yeah i know that. I just think it's stupid and bigoted. But we live in an era that focuses more on looks than anything else, and have done for decades now. "
Bigoted or not I wouldn't want my children taught be a teacher with tattoos all over their face, |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"And why does her being lazy affect the conversation?
Because she has no concept of holding down a real job. She has an idealised notion that having tattoos shouldnt affect your employment...however would a barrister with neck/facial tattoos be taken seriously?
The actual debate wasnt the issue. It was her inability to look outside her own little world to what happens in real life...
She is right on that though, tattoos are superficial and shouldn't affect your ability to get a job.
I personally couldn't give shit abut working with the general public again, but if i did want to and my tattoos were used against me then that's not right.
People should be taken seriously for their skills, not their appearance, nor the effort they put into that. It's bigotry, pure and simple.
Unfortunately it will always be that way in certain industries. Every employee is an ambassador for the company. If the person cannot represent the company in a way deemed fitting for that company then they are obviously not a suitable employee.
It is also to do with the customers expectations. If they are not being met, or if the company will lose money due to an employees choices then the company will not hire that person.
Yeah i know that. I just think it's stupid and bigoted. But we live in an era that focuses more on looks than anything else, and have done for decades now.
Bigoted or not I wouldn't want my children taught be a teacher with tattoos all over their face,"
There was an article in the papers not so long ago, a young lady doing a teaching degree going on placement, face full of tattoos and piercings and was told 'no thank you'
The sad thing is lots of kids are getting large tattoos early on before they know what they want to do and find their choices limited because it was a great idea in uni to get a tattoo on their neck and flesh tunnel piercings.
It is sadly part of our 'instant gratification' culture. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And why does her being lazy affect the conversation?
Because she has no concept of holding down a real job. She has an idealised notion that having tattoos shouldnt affect your employment...however would a barrister with neck/facial tattoos be taken seriously?
The actual debate wasnt the issue. It was her inability to look outside her own little world to what happens in real life...
She is right on that though, tattoos are superficial and shouldn't affect your ability to get a job.
I personally couldn't give shit abut working with the general public again, but if i did want to and my tattoos were used against me then that's not right.
People should be taken seriously for their skills, not their appearance, nor the effort they put into that. It's bigotry, pure and simple.
Unfortunately it will always be that way in certain industries. Every employee is an ambassador for the company. If the person cannot represent the company in a way deemed fitting for that company then they are obviously not a suitable employee.
It is also to do with the customers expectations. If they are not being met, or if the company will lose money due to an employees choices then the company will not hire that person.
Yeah i know that. I just think it's stupid and bigoted. But we live in an era that focuses more on looks than anything else, and have done for decades now.
Bigoted or not I wouldn't want my children taught be a teacher with tattoos all over their face,"
Why not? If they're a good teacher, fully qualified and capable of teaching then that makes no sense.
Why would you value unblemished skin more than your childs education? Serious question. |
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"And why does her being lazy affect the conversation?
Because she has no concept of holding down a real job. She has an idealised notion that having tattoos shouldnt affect your employment...however would a barrister with neck/facial tattoos be taken seriously?
The actual debate wasnt the issue. It was her inability to look outside her own little world to what happens in real life...
She is right on that though, tattoos are superficial and shouldn't affect your ability to get a job.
I personally couldn't give shit abut working with the general public again, but if i did want to and my tattoos were used against me then that's not right.
People should be taken seriously for their skills, not their appearance, nor the effort they put into that. It's bigotry, pure and simple.
Unfortunately it will always be that way in certain industries. Every employee is an ambassador for the company. If the person cannot represent the company in a way deemed fitting for that company then they are obviously not a suitable employee.
It is also to do with the customers expectations. If they are not being met, or if the company will lose money due to an employees choices then the company will not hire that person.
Yeah i know that. I just think it's stupid and bigoted. But we live in an era that focuses more on looks than anything else, and have done for decades now.
Bigoted or not I wouldn't want my children taught be a teacher with tattoos all over their face,
Why not? If they're a good teacher, fully qualified and capable of teaching then that makes no sense.
Why would you value unblemished skin more than your childs education? Serious question."
Obviously I cannot speak for the previous poster, but my answer to that would be that people may be concerned what influence a child might take from someone who has tattooed their face. It is a mutilation of a person's body which rightly or wrongly has a profound effect on that person's life thereafter both socially and physically. It is also basically irreversible insofar as you cannot remove a facial tattoo without causing damage to the face.
A child is easily influenced by people they are close to and trust such as a teacher. Children should not tattoo their body as they are not old enough to understand the effect it will have on their lives and not mature enough to make a good decision on the tattoo in the first place.
Therefore not exposing them to that influence in the first place may be looked on by many as a good educational decision. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Wow to be your best friend....its her oppion as it's yours calling her lazy isn't a great trait and she is right having ink on show does affect the job you do.My daughter is wanting to teach sign and English she as a few amazing ink pieces but they are well hidden as yes it does effect your job prospects.That's the world we live in.Not everyone likes ink or appreciates it . And living in her own bubble isn't so bad I know many who do ...I for one am one of those people . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And why does her being lazy affect the conversation?
Because she has no concept of holding down a real job. She has an idealised notion that having tattoos shouldnt affect your employment...however would a barrister with neck/facial tattoos be taken seriously?
The actual debate wasnt the issue. It was her inability to look outside her own little world to what happens in real life...
She is right on that though, tattoos are superficial and shouldn't affect your ability to get a job.
I personally couldn't give shit abut working with the general public again, but if i did want to and my tattoos were used against me then that's not right.
People should be taken seriously for their skills, not their appearance, nor the effort they put into that. It's bigotry, pure and simple.
Unfortunately it will always be that way in certain industries. Every employee is an ambassador for the company. If the person cannot represent the company in a way deemed fitting for that company then they are obviously not a suitable employee.
It is also to do with the customers expectations. If they are not being met, or if the company will lose money due to an employees choices then the company will not hire that person.
Yeah i know that. I just think it's stupid and bigoted. But we live in an era that focuses more on looks than anything else, and have done for decades now.
Bigoted or not I wouldn't want my children taught be a teacher with tattoos all over their face,
Why not? If they're a good teacher, fully qualified and capable of teaching then that makes no sense.
Why would you value unblemished skin more than your childs education? Serious question.
Obviously I cannot speak for the previous poster, but my answer to that would be that people may be concerned what influence a child might take from someone who has tattooed their face. It is a mutilation of a person's body which rightly or wrongly has a profound effect on that person's life thereafter both socially and physically. It is also basically irreversible insofar as you cannot remove a facial tattoo without causing damage to the face.
A child is easily influenced by people they are close to and trust such as a teacher. Children should not tattoo their body as they are not old enough to understand the effect it will have on their lives and not mature enough to make a good decision on the tattoo in the first place.
Therefore not exposing them to that influence in the first place may be looked on by many as a good educational decision."
Interesting, so basically you feel that a childs education should be restricted culturally so that they don't become something you wouldn't approve of?
This makes sense as many people don't like their children to be taught in religious schools if they themselves aren't religious.
Not that i agree this the best way to educate anyone. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"And why does her being lazy affect the conversation?
Because she has no concept of holding down a real job. She has an idealised notion that having tattoos shouldnt affect your employment...however would a barrister with neck/facial tattoos be taken seriously?
The actual debate wasnt the issue. It was her inability to look outside her own little world to what happens in real life...
She is right on that though, tattoos are superficial and shouldn't affect your ability to get a job.
I personally couldn't give shit abut working with the general public again, but if i did want to and my tattoos were used against me then that's not right.
People should be taken seriously for their skills, not their appearance, nor the effort they put into that. It's bigotry, pure and simple.
Unfortunately it will always be that way in certain industries. Every employee is an ambassador for the company. If the person cannot represent the company in a way deemed fitting for that company then they are obviously not a suitable employee.
It is also to do with the customers expectations. If they are not being met, or if the company will lose money due to an employees choices then the company will not hire that person.
Yeah i know that. I just think it's stupid and bigoted. But we live in an era that focuses more on looks than anything else, and have done for decades now.
Bigoted or not I wouldn't want my children taught be a teacher with tattoos all over their face,
Why not? If they're a good teacher, fully qualified and capable of teaching then that makes no sense.
Why would you value unblemished skin more than your childs education? Serious question.
Obviously I cannot speak for the previous poster, but my answer to that would be that people may be concerned what influence a child might take from someone who has tattooed their face. It is a mutilation of a person's body which rightly or wrongly has a profound effect on that person's life thereafter both socially and physically. It is also basically irreversible insofar as you cannot remove a facial tattoo without causing damage to the face.
A child is easily influenced by people they are close to and trust such as a teacher. Children should not tattoo their body as they are not old enough to understand the effect it will have on their lives and not mature enough to make a good decision on the tattoo in the first place.
Therefore not exposing them to that influence in the first place may be looked on by many as a good educational decision.
Interesting, so basically you feel that a childs education should be restricted culturally so that they don't become something you wouldn't approve of?
This makes sense as many people don't like their children to be taught in religious schools if they themselves aren't religious.
Not that i agree this the best way to educate anyone."
It isn't restricting them culturally, it is allowing them to focus on the task in hand without being distracted. This is one of the reasons schools have uniform policies, it takes away the distraction of what everyone is wearing and one upmanship and them all having to have the latest fashion etc. It is more beneficial to strip away all of that bullshit and leave them free to concentrate on what is being taught. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Some people always have an excuse for why they fail. It is never that they have done something wrong. It is always something someone else is doing wrong.
There is usually one common factor though, they end up without what they want and the world is to blame."
This! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And why does her being lazy affect the conversation?
Because she has no concept of holding down a real job. She has an idealised notion that having tattoos shouldnt affect your employment...however would a barrister with neck/facial tattoos be taken seriously?
The actual debate wasnt the issue. It was her inability to look outside her own little world to what happens in real life...
She is right on that though, tattoos are superficial and shouldn't affect your ability to get a job.
I personally couldn't give shit abut working with the general public again, but if i did want to and my tattoos were used against me then that's not right.
People should be taken seriously for their skills, not their appearance, nor the effort they put into that. It's bigotry, pure and simple.
Unfortunately it will always be that way in certain industries. Every employee is an ambassador for the company. If the person cannot represent the company in a way deemed fitting for that company then they are obviously not a suitable employee.
It is also to do with the customers expectations. If they are not being met, or if the company will lose money due to an employees choices then the company will not hire that person.
Yeah i know that. I just think it's stupid and bigoted. But we live in an era that focuses more on looks than anything else, and have done for decades now.
Bigoted or not I wouldn't want my children taught be a teacher with tattoos all over their face,
Why not? If they're a good teacher, fully qualified and capable of teaching then that makes no sense.
Why would you value unblemished skin more than your childs education? Serious question.
Obviously I cannot speak for the previous poster, but my answer to that would be that people may be concerned what influence a child might take from someone who has tattooed their face. It is a mutilation of a person's body which rightly or wrongly has a profound effect on that person's life thereafter both socially and physically. It is also basically irreversible insofar as you cannot remove a facial tattoo without causing damage to the face.
A child is easily influenced by people they are close to and trust such as a teacher. Children should not tattoo their body as they are not old enough to understand the effect it will have on their lives and not mature enough to make a good decision on the tattoo in the first place.
Therefore not exposing them to that influence in the first place may be looked on by many as a good educational decision.
Interesting, so basically you feel that a childs education should be restricted culturally so that they don't become something you wouldn't approve of?
This makes sense as many people don't like their children to be taught in religious schools if they themselves aren't religious.
Not that i agree this the best way to educate anyone.
It isn't restricting them culturally, it is allowing them to focus on the task in hand without being distracted. This is one of the reasons schools have uniform policies, it takes away the distraction of what everyone is wearing and one upmanship and them all having to have the latest fashion etc. It is more beneficial to strip away all of that bullshit and leave them free to concentrate on what is being taught."
They said it was so that the kids wouldn't get a face tattoo. So, i feel, they don't want their kids to be influenced by other cultures and so want to limit who they interact with based on that.
Uniforms kind of make sense, in the sense of people not standing out or being individuals within school. I'll agree with that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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People invest a lot in their kids, i can understand why they'd want to limit who influences them btw.
Like i said i don't agree with it to the degree they do but i get why they would do that. I'm very liberal though. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Fact is tattoos can affect you getting certain jobs. Whether thats right or not is a whole other debate.
In my opinion though people who use it as an excuse not to work are lazy. There are plenty of places that dont mind them.
For example i work for a company thats a top 10 in the country for it field. It pretigious and pays well and they let me have pink hair and tatts. |
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"And why does her being lazy affect the conversation?
Because she has no concept of holding down a real job. She has an idealised notion that having tattoos shouldnt affect your employment...however would a barrister with neck/facial tattoos be taken seriously?
The actual debate wasnt the issue. It was her inability to look outside her own little world to what happens in real life...
She is right on that though, tattoos are superficial and shouldn't affect your ability to get a job.
I personally couldn't give shit abut working with the general public again, but if i did want to and my tattoos were used against me then that's not right.
People should be taken seriously for their skills, not their appearance, nor the effort they put into that. It's bigotry, pure and simple.
Unfortunately it will always be that way in certain industries. Every employee is an ambassador for the company. If the person cannot represent the company in a way deemed fitting for that company then they are obviously not a suitable employee.
It is also to do with the customers expectations. If they are not being met, or if the company will lose money due to an employees choices then the company will not hire that person.
Yeah i know that. I just think it's stupid and bigoted. But we live in an era that focuses more on looks than anything else, and have done for decades now.
Bigoted or not I wouldn't want my children taught be a teacher with tattoos all over their face,
Why not? If they're a good teacher, fully qualified and capable of teaching then that makes no sense.
Why would you value unblemished skin more than your childs education? Serious question.
Obviously I cannot speak for the previous poster, but my answer to that would be that people may be concerned what influence a child might take from someone who has tattooed their face. It is a mutilation of a person's body which rightly or wrongly has a profound effect on that person's life thereafter both socially and physically. It is also basically irreversible insofar as you cannot remove a facial tattoo without causing damage to the face.
A child is easily influenced by people they are close to and trust such as a teacher. Children should not tattoo their body as they are not old enough to understand the effect it will have on their lives and not mature enough to make a good decision on the tattoo in the first place.
Therefore not exposing them to that influence in the first place may be looked on by many as a good educational decision.
Interesting, so basically you feel that a childs education should be restricted culturally so that they don't become something you wouldn't approve of?
This makes sense as many people don't like their children to be taught in religious schools if they themselves aren't religious.
Not that i agree this the best way to educate anyone."
No, I never said that is how we feel, but that is how many people feel.
I guess it is basic human instinct, you bring your children up to do what you think is best and try to prevent influences which you think are bad from pervading their lives.
That is called education, we believe that if they understand 3x3 is 9 then they will prosper better than if we teach the, 3x3 = 45. Therefore we teach them that it equals nine and limit exposure to mathematical anarchists who say 3x3 = 45.
The principle (emotional and arbitrary cultural rankings notwithstanding) is the same. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Wow to be your best friend....its her oppion as it's yours calling her lazy isn't a great trait and she is right having ink on show does affect the job you do.My daughter is wanting to teach sign and English she as a few amazing ink pieces but they are well hidden as yes it does effect your job prospects.That's the world we live in.Not everyone likes ink or appreciates it . And living in her own bubble isn't so bad I know many who do ...I for one am one of those people . "
Just to clarify, neither of us think ink affects how well you do your job. She was stating that having visible tattoos should not preclude you from any job, which i maintain is highly unrealistic. Her 'bubble' is her non acceptance that there are things like company policy and socially acceptable standards, and everyone should just 'chill out'. And her beginning sentences with'Well, everyone should just..' |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Wow to be your best friend....its her oppion as it's yours calling her lazy isn't a great trait and she is right having ink on show does affect the job you do.My daughter is wanting to teach sign and English she as a few amazing ink pieces but they are well hidden as yes it does effect your job prospects.That's the world we live in.Not everyone likes ink or appreciates it . And living in her own bubble isn't so bad I know many who do ...I for one am one of those people .
Just to clarify, neither of us think ink affects how well you do your job. She was stating that having visible tattoos should not preclude you from any job, which i maintain is highly unrealistic. Her 'bubble' is her non acceptance that there are things like company policy and socially acceptable standards, and everyone should just 'chill out'. And her beginning sentences with'Well, everyone should just..' "
Yet you call her a pleb and an idiot  and this is your best friends wife...  |
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"Wow to be your best friend....its her oppion as it's yours calling her lazy isn't a great trait and she is right having ink on show does affect the job you do.My daughter is wanting to teach sign and English she as a few amazing ink pieces but they are well hidden as yes it does effect your job prospects.That's the world we live in.Not everyone likes ink or appreciates it . And living in her own bubble isn't so bad I know many who do ...I for one am one of those people .
Just to clarify, neither of us think ink affects how well you do your job. She was stating that having visible tattoos should not preclude you from any job, which i maintain is highly unrealistic. Her 'bubble' is her non acceptance that there are things like company policy and socially acceptable standards, and everyone should just 'chill out'. And her beginning sentences with'Well, everyone should just..'
Yet you call her a pleb and an idiot and this is your best friends wife... "
Just because she is close to the person does not mean she is not an idiot. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Wow to be your best friend....its her oppion as it's yours calling her lazy isn't a great trait and she is right having ink on show does affect the job you do.My daughter is wanting to teach sign and English she as a few amazing ink pieces but they are well hidden as yes it does effect your job prospects.That's the world we live in.Not everyone likes ink or appreciates it . And living in her own bubble isn't so bad I know many who do ...I for one am one of those people .
Just to clarify, neither of us think ink affects how well you do your job. She was stating that having visible tattoos should not preclude you from any job, which i maintain is highly unrealistic. Her 'bubble' is her non acceptance that there are things like company policy and socially acceptable standards, and everyone should just 'chill out'. And her beginning sentences with'Well, everyone should just..'
Yet you call her a pleb and an idiot and this is your best friends wife... "
Doesn't mean to say i don't like her. I just find her attitude frustrating. We have all called each other far worse... |
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"Wow to be your best friend....its her oppion as it's yours calling her lazy isn't a great trait and she is right having ink on show does affect the job you do.My daughter is wanting to teach sign and English she as a few amazing ink pieces but they are well hidden as yes it does effect your job prospects.That's the world we live in.Not everyone likes ink or appreciates it . And living in her own bubble isn't so bad I know many who do ...I for one am one of those people .
Just to clarify, neither of us think ink affects how well you do your job. She was stating that having visible tattoos should not preclude you from any job, which i maintain is highly unrealistic. Her 'bubble' is her non acceptance that there are things like company policy and socially acceptable standards, and everyone should just 'chill out'. And her beginning sentences with'Well, everyone should just..' "
well I agree with her it shouldn't, but it does, from your opening post I got the impression her "bubble" was being a lazy pleb that doesn't want to work. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Wow to be your best friend....its her oppion as it's yours calling her lazy isn't a great trait and she is right having ink on show does affect the job you do.My daughter is wanting to teach sign and English she as a few amazing ink pieces but they are well hidden as yes it does effect your job prospects.That's the world we live in.Not everyone likes ink or appreciates it . And living in her own bubble isn't so bad I know many who do ...I for one am one of those people .
Just to clarify, neither of us think ink affects how well you do your job. She was stating that having visible tattoos should not preclude you from any job, which i maintain is highly unrealistic. Her 'bubble' is her non acceptance that there are things like company policy and socially acceptable standards, and everyone should just 'chill out'. And her beginning sentences with'Well, everyone should just..'
Yet you call her a pleb and an idiot and this is your best friends wife...
Just because she is close to the person does not mean she is not an idiot. "
Wow im sure she would love to know she's been branded an idiot just because her opinion is different to others. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Don't think I know anyone that doesn't work just because they've got tattoos, yes certain areas your not going to get a job rightly or wrongly, but some people just don't want to work"
This was about having visible tattoos...Hands/neck/face etc.and its effect on being employed. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Wow to be your best friend....its her oppion as it's yours calling her lazy isn't a great trait and she is right having ink on show does affect the job you do.My daughter is wanting to teach sign and English she as a few amazing ink pieces but they are well hidden as yes it does effect your job prospects.That's the world we live in.Not everyone likes ink or appreciates it . And living in her own bubble isn't so bad I know many who do ...I for one am one of those people .
Just to clarify, neither of us think ink affects how well you do your job. She was stating that having visible tattoos should not preclude you from any job, which i maintain is highly unrealistic. Her 'bubble' is her non acceptance that there are things like company policy and socially acceptable standards, and everyone should just 'chill out'. And her beginning sentences with'Well, everyone should just..'
Yet you call her a pleb and an idiot and this is your best friends wife...
Just because she is close to the person does not mean she is not an idiot.
Wow im sure she would love to know she's been branded an idiot just because her opinion is different to others. "
She calls me a wanker and a CNUT to my face...its just the dynamics within our group.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I know someone who cant see the difference between what the world is like and what it should be like to them.
The concept that there are things in working life that differ from what they think should happen is alien to them.
I think this what the OP is getting at. For example this person cannot grasp why she cant call her manager and company all the names under the sun on fbook. They put graffic pictures on fbook of an accident they had with blood and gunge etc and dont get that people dont want to see that cause it wouldnt bother her.
Its the same thing as people not seeing that other people have different values and beliefs. It may be stupid it may be very short sighted but i know what the OP means... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And why does her being lazy affect the conversation?
Because she has no concept of holding down a real job. She has an idealised notion that having tattoos shouldnt affect your employment...however would a barrister with neck/facial tattoos be taken seriously?
The actual debate wasnt the issue. It was her inability to look outside her own little world to what happens in real life...
She is right on that though, tattoos are superficial and shouldn't affect your ability to get a job.
I personally couldn't give shit abut working with the general public again, but if i did want to and my tattoos were used against me then that's not right.
People should be taken seriously for their skills, not their appearance, nor the effort they put into that. It's bigotry, pure and simple.
Unfortunately it will always be that way in certain industries. Every employee is an ambassador for the company. If the person cannot represent the company in a way deemed fitting for that company then they are obviously not a suitable employee.
It is also to do with the customers expectations. If they are not being met, or if the company will lose money due to an employees choices then the company will not hire that person.
Yeah i know that. I just think it's stupid and bigoted. But we live in an era that focuses more on looks than anything else, and have done for decades now.
Bigoted or not I wouldn't want my children taught be a teacher with tattoos all over their face,
Why not? If they're a good teacher, fully qualified and capable of teaching then that makes no sense.
Why would you value unblemished skin more than your childs education? Serious question.
Obviously I cannot speak for the previous poster, but my answer to that would be that people may be concerned what influence a child might take from someone who has tattooed their face. It is a mutilation of a person's body which rightly or wrongly has a profound effect on that person's life thereafter both socially and physically. It is also basically irreversible insofar as you cannot remove a facial tattoo without causing damage to the face.
A child is easily influenced by people they are close to and trust such as a teacher. Children should not tattoo their body as they are not old enough to understand the effect it will have on their lives and not mature enough to make a good decision on the tattoo in the first place.
Therefore not exposing them to that influence in the first place may be looked on by many as a good educational decision.
Interesting, so basically you feel that a childs education should be restricted culturally so that they don't become something you wouldn't approve of?
This makes sense as many people don't like their children to be taught in religious schools if they themselves aren't religious.
Not that i agree this the best way to educate anyone.
No, I never said that is how we feel, but that is how many people feel.
I guess it is basic human instinct, you bring your children up to do what you think is best and try to prevent influences which you think are bad from pervading their lives.
That is called education, we believe that if they understand 3x3 is 9 then they will prosper better than if we teach the, 3x3 = 45. Therefore we teach them that it equals nine and limit exposure to mathematical anarchists who say 3x3 = 45.
The principle (emotional and arbitrary cultural rankings notwithstanding) is the same."
Facial tattoos shouldn't affect any of this though. I'm heavily tattooed and an anarchist but know my times table well enough. I think the fact that facial tattoos may not be aesthetically pleasing to everyone is not a good enough excuse to make them abnormal or the person wearing them unable to be employed.
The only 'decent' excuse i've seen so far is that it would be distracting, but if it was normal then it wouldn't be distracting anyway, and by making it abnormal we are causing the distraction, not the tattooed person.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Gah...having an online 'debate' (non Fab) with a friends wife about having tattoos on show and how it affects employment in certain industries (irrelevant)
However she cant hold down a job due to being lazy and has no concept of 'real life' so she is just banging her drum to her simple little idealistic concepts while playing world of warcraft all bloody day. I cant even get shouty as she is my best friends wife!!
Does anyone else have to deal with idiots like this?"
No. I steer clear of negative influences. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Wow to be your best friend....its her oppion as it's yours calling her lazy isn't a great trait and she is right having ink on show does affect the job you do.My daughter is wanting to teach sign and English she as a few amazing ink pieces but they are well hidden as yes it does effect your job prospects.That's the world we live in.Not everyone likes ink or appreciates it . And living in her own bubble isn't so bad I know many who do ...I for one am one of those people .
Just to clarify, neither of us think ink affects how well you do your job. She was stating that having visible tattoos should not preclude you from any job, which i maintain is highly unrealistic. Her 'bubble' is her non acceptance that there are things like company policy and socially acceptable standards, and everyone should just 'chill out'. And her beginning sentences with'Well, everyone should just..'
Yet you call her a pleb and an idiot and this is your best friends wife...
Just because she is close to the person does not mean she is not an idiot.
Wow im sure she would love to know she's been branded an idiot just because her opinion is different to others.
She calls me a wanker and a CNUT to my face...its just the dynamics within our group.."
But your talking about her on here ...sorry not very gallant of you in my opinion I shall now retreat before I spoil my manners |
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"Don't think I know anyone that doesn't work just because they've got tattoos, yes certain areas your not going to get a job rightly or wrongly, but some people just don't want to work
This was about having visible tattoos...Hands/neck/face etc.and its effect on being employed."
I know plenty of the younger generation with these, my son included ( not face tattoo) my friends daughter has a heart, spade, club and diamond down the side of her faces, admittedly they are not lawyers or anything but they have good steady jobs |
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"Wow to be your best friend....its her oppion as it's yours calling her lazy isn't a great trait and she is right having ink on show does affect the job you do.My daughter is wanting to teach sign and English she as a few amazing ink pieces but they are well hidden as yes it does effect your job prospects.That's the world we live in.Not everyone likes ink or appreciates it . And living in her own bubble isn't so bad I know many who do ...I for one am one of those people .
Just to clarify, neither of us think ink affects how well you do your job. She was stating that having visible tattoos should not preclude you from any job, which i maintain is highly unrealistic. Her 'bubble' is her non acceptance that there are things like company policy and socially acceptable standards, and everyone should just 'chill out'. And her beginning sentences with'Well, everyone should just..'
Yet you call her a pleb and an idiot and this is your best friends wife...
Just because she is close to the person does not mean she is not an idiot.
Wow im sure she would love to know she's been branded an idiot just because her opinion is different to others. "
That is a rather strange statement.
Exactly that a person's opinions are different is why we call people idiots.
Opinions form vignettes into a person's psyche.
Nigel Farage thinks that women should not get maternity leave. That is his opinion. It makes him an idiot.
Pol Pot thought that anyone who disagreed with him should be killed. That was his opinion, it made him a murderous bastard.
Bernard Manning thought his jokes were funny. That made him a misguided mysogynist.
This idea that people's opinions are their right and no one can decry them is wrong. People are entitled to their opinion, but they are also liable to be criticised and ridiculed if their opinion is utter horseshit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Wow to be your best friend....its her oppion as it's yours calling her lazy isn't a great trait and she is right having ink on show does affect the job you do.My daughter is wanting to teach sign and English she as a few amazing ink pieces but they are well hidden as yes it does effect your job prospects.That's the world we live in.Not everyone likes ink or appreciates it . And living in her own bubble isn't so bad I know many who do ...I for one am one of those people .
Just to clarify, neither of us think ink affects how well you do your job. She was stating that having visible tattoos should not preclude you from any job, which i maintain is highly unrealistic. Her 'bubble' is her non acceptance that there are things like company policy and socially acceptable standards, and everyone should just 'chill out'. And her beginning sentences with'Well, everyone should just..'
Yet you call her a pleb and an idiot and this is your best friends wife...
Just because she is close to the person does not mean she is not an idiot.
Wow im sure she would love to know she's been branded an idiot just because her opinion is different to others.
That is a rather strange statement.
Exactly that a person's opinions are different is why we call people idiots.
Opinions form vignettes into a person's psyche.
Nigel Farage thinks that women should not get maternity leave. That is his opinion. It makes him an idiot.
Pol Pot thought that anyone who disagreed with him should be killed. That was his opinion, it made him a murderous bastard.
Bernard Manning thought his jokes were funny. That made him a misguided mysogynist.
This idea that people's opinions are their right and no one can decry them is wrong. People are entitled to their opinion, but they are also liable to be criticised and ridiculed if their opinion is utter horseshit."
And that's your opinion |
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"And why does her being lazy affect the conversation?
Because she has no concept of holding down a real job. She has an idealised notion that having tattoos shouldnt affect your employment...however would a barrister with neck/facial tattoos be taken seriously?
The actual debate wasnt the issue. It was her inability to look outside her own little world to what happens in real life...
She is right on that though, tattoos are superficial and shouldn't affect your ability to get a job.
I personally couldn't give shit abut working with the general public again, but if i did want to and my tattoos were used against me then that's not right.
People should be taken seriously for their skills, not their appearance, nor the effort they put into that. It's bigotry, pure and simple.
Unfortunately it will always be that way in certain industries. Every employee is an ambassador for the company. If the person cannot represent the company in a way deemed fitting for that company then they are obviously not a suitable employee.
It is also to do with the customers expectations. If they are not being met, or if the company will lose money due to an employees choices then the company will not hire that person.
Yeah i know that. I just think it's stupid and bigoted. But we live in an era that focuses more on looks than anything else, and have done for decades now.
Bigoted or not I wouldn't want my children taught be a teacher with tattoos all over their face,
Why not? If they're a good teacher, fully qualified and capable of teaching then that makes no sense.
Why would you value unblemished skin more than your childs education? Serious question.
Obviously I cannot speak for the previous poster, but my answer to that would be that people may be concerned what influence a child might take from someone who has tattooed their face. It is a mutilation of a person's body which rightly or wrongly has a profound effect on that person's life thereafter both socially and physically. It is also basically irreversible insofar as you cannot remove a facial tattoo without causing damage to the face.
A child is easily influenced by people they are close to and trust such as a teacher. Children should not tattoo their body as they are not old enough to understand the effect it will have on their lives and not mature enough to make a good decision on the tattoo in the first place.
Therefore not exposing them to that influence in the first place may be looked on by many as a good educational decision.
Interesting, so basically you feel that a childs education should be restricted culturally so that they don't become something you wouldn't approve of?
This makes sense as many people don't like their children to be taught in religious schools if they themselves aren't religious.
Not that i agree this the best way to educate anyone.
No, I never said that is how we feel, but that is how many people feel.
I guess it is basic human instinct, you bring your children up to do what you think is best and try to prevent influences which you think are bad from pervading their lives.
That is called education, we believe that if they understand 3x3 is 9 then they will prosper better than if we teach the, 3x3 = 45. Therefore we teach them that it equals nine and limit exposure to mathematical anarchists who say 3x3 = 45.
The principle (emotional and arbitrary cultural rankings notwithstanding) is the same.
Facial tattoos shouldn't affect any of this though. I'm heavily tattooed and an anarchist but know my times table well enough. I think the fact that facial tattoos may not be aesthetically pleasing to everyone is not a good enough excuse to make them abnormal or the person wearing them unable to be employed.
The only 'decent' excuse i've seen so far is that it would be distracting, but if it was normal then it wouldn't be distracting anyway, and by making it abnormal we are causing the distraction, not the tattooed person.
"
If you do not want your child to get their face irretrievably altered for the sake of fashion then you will stop them being influenced by people who think that is fine.
Just like if you do not want your child to grow up thinking that "all fucking niggers must fucking hang", you will stop them being influenced by racist violent fuckwits.
I would tend to agree with you that adults should not judge people by their appearance. But it is a natural thing to do. We are naturally xenophobic. Which is why when we are standing by the coast and a 90ft tentacled beast rises from the deep and heads for us we run like hell. We don't know what it is and we have an instinct that it looks a bit nasty so off we trot. That is xenophobia. That is also healthy.
Children especially hold great stock in being able to recognise a person's face and their facial expressions and they can be distressed when their natural ability to do this is altered. Adults to a similar degree but over time we learn to perceive more subtle traits as well as facial expression. But the loss of clear facial expression through a whole face tattoo limits the natural ability to communicate through that medium. An adult is capable of deciding for themselves if they want to limit their ability that way, but it does have an effect on others which may render them more suitable for certain jobs than others where that sort of communication is vital. Public facing roles often value that sort of communication.
Like it or lump it. We need to be able to see people's faces clearly to feel secure in our communications with them. It is a natural thing.
Possibly another argument: people who get tattoos frequently regret them in time. Which shows the decision they made was not a long term one and lacked vision. So that is a commentary on their personality and suitability for decision making roles.
This isn't always the case and is difficult to quantify but it is common enough to build up a perception in some people that certain tattoo related behaviours are the sign of poor decision making abilities. I am not sure I totally buy that but it does prevail in some instances. |
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"Wow to be your best friend....its her oppion as it's yours calling her lazy isn't a great trait and she is right having ink on show does affect the job you do.My daughter is wanting to teach sign and English she as a few amazing ink pieces but they are well hidden as yes it does effect your job prospects.That's the world we live in.Not everyone likes ink or appreciates it . And living in her own bubble isn't so bad I know many who do ...I for one am one of those people .
Just to clarify, neither of us think ink affects how well you do your job. She was stating that having visible tattoos should not preclude you from any job, which i maintain is highly unrealistic. Her 'bubble' is her non acceptance that there are things like company policy and socially acceptable standards, and everyone should just 'chill out'. And her beginning sentences with'Well, everyone should just..'
Yet you call her a pleb and an idiot and this is your best friends wife...
Just because she is close to the person does not mean she is not an idiot.
Wow im sure she would love to know she's been branded an idiot just because her opinion is different to others.
That is a rather strange statement.
Exactly that a person's opinions are different is why we call people idiots.
Opinions form vignettes into a person's psyche.
Nigel Farage thinks that women should not get maternity leave. That is his opinion. It makes him an idiot.
Pol Pot thought that anyone who disagreed with him should be killed. That was his opinion, it made him a murderous bastard.
Bernard Manning thought his jokes were funny. That made him a misguided mysogynist.
This idea that people's opinions are their right and no one can decry them is wrong. People are entitled to their opinion, but they are also liable to be criticised and ridiculed if their opinion is utter horseshit.
And that's your opinion"
Yes, yes it is. And you may judge me for it as you see fit and say what you think of me. That is how human discourse works! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And why does her being lazy affect the conversation?
Because she has no concept of holding down a real job. She has an idealised notion that having tattoos shouldnt affect your employment...however would a barrister with neck/facial tattoos be taken seriously?
The actual debate wasnt the issue. It was her inability to look outside her own little world to what happens in real life...
She is right on that though, tattoos are superficial and shouldn't affect your ability to get a job.
I personally couldn't give shit abut working with the general public again, but if i did want to and my tattoos were used against me then that's not right.
People should be taken seriously for their skills, not their appearance, nor the effort they put into that. It's bigotry, pure and simple.
Unfortunately it will always be that way in certain industries. Every employee is an ambassador for the company. If the person cannot represent the company in a way deemed fitting for that company then they are obviously not a suitable employee.
It is also to do with the customers expectations. If they are not being met, or if the company will lose money due to an employees choices then the company will not hire that person.
Yeah i know that. I just think it's stupid and bigoted. But we live in an era that focuses more on looks than anything else, and have done for decades now.
Bigoted or not I wouldn't want my children taught be a teacher with tattoos all over their face,
Why not? If they're a good teacher, fully qualified and capable of teaching then that makes no sense.
Why would you value unblemished skin more than your childs education? Serious question.
Obviously I cannot speak for the previous poster, but my answer to that would be that people may be concerned what influence a child might take from someone who has tattooed their face. It is a mutilation of a person's body which rightly or wrongly has a profound effect on that person's life thereafter both socially and physically. It is also basically irreversible insofar as you cannot remove a facial tattoo without causing damage to the face.
A child is easily influenced by people they are close to and trust such as a teacher. Children should not tattoo their body as they are not old enough to understand the effect it will have on their lives and not mature enough to make a good decision on the tattoo in the first place.
Therefore not exposing them to that influence in the first place may be looked on by many as a good educational decision.
Interesting, so basically you feel that a childs education should be restricted culturally so that they don't become something you wouldn't approve of?
This makes sense as many people don't like their children to be taught in religious schools if they themselves aren't religious.
Not that i agree this the best way to educate anyone.
No, I never said that is how we feel, but that is how many people feel.
I guess it is basic human instinct, you bring your children up to do what you think is best and try to prevent influences which you think are bad from pervading their lives.
That is called education, we believe that if they understand 3x3 is 9 then they will prosper better than if we teach the, 3x3 = 45. Therefore we teach them that it equals nine and limit exposure to mathematical anarchists who say 3x3 = 45.
The principle (emotional and arbitrary cultural rankings notwithstanding) is the same.
Facial tattoos shouldn't affect any of this though. I'm heavily tattooed and an anarchist but know my times table well enough. I think the fact that facial tattoos may not be aesthetically pleasing to everyone is not a good enough excuse to make them abnormal or the person wearing them unable to be employed.
The only 'decent' excuse i've seen so far is that it would be distracting, but if it was normal then it wouldn't be distracting anyway, and by making it abnormal we are causing the distraction, not the tattooed person.
"
To a lot of people Having a facial tattoo says a lot about the kind of person you are.
It says you haven't considered how the rest of society will treat you, or you have and just don't care and will live with the consequences.
Often to a potential employer neither option makes for an attractive perspective employee.
It shouldn't be this way but it is |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And why does her being lazy affect the conversation?
Because she has no concept of holding down a real job. She has an idealised notion that having tattoos shouldnt affect your employment...however would a barrister with neck/facial tattoos be taken seriously?
The actual debate wasnt the issue. It was her inability to look outside her own little world to what happens in real life...
She is right on that though, tattoos are superficial and shouldn't affect your ability to get a job.
I personally couldn't give shit abut working with the general public again, but if i did want to and my tattoos were used against me then that's not right.
People should be taken seriously for their skills, not their appearance, nor the effort they put into that. It's bigotry, pure and simple.
Unfortunately it will always be that way in certain industries. Every employee is an ambassador for the company. If the person cannot represent the company in a way deemed fitting for that company then they are obviously not a suitable employee.
It is also to do with the customers expectations. If they are not being met, or if the company will lose money due to an employees choices then the company will not hire that person.
Yeah i know that. I just think it's stupid and bigoted. But we live in an era that focuses more on looks than anything else, and have done for decades now.
Bigoted or not I wouldn't want my children taught be a teacher with tattoos all over their face,
Why not? If they're a good teacher, fully qualified and capable of teaching then that makes no sense.
Why would you value unblemished skin more than your childs education? Serious question.
Obviously I cannot speak for the previous poster, but my answer to that would be that people may be concerned what influence a child might take from someone who has tattooed their face. It is a mutilation of a person's body which rightly or wrongly has a profound effect on that person's life thereafter both socially and physically. It is also basically irreversible insofar as you cannot remove a facial tattoo without causing damage to the face.
A child is easily influenced by people they are close to and trust such as a teacher. Children should not tattoo their body as they are not old enough to understand the effect it will have on their lives and not mature enough to make a good decision on the tattoo in the first place.
Therefore not exposing them to that influence in the first place may be looked on by many as a good educational decision.
Interesting, so basically you feel that a childs education should be restricted culturally so that they don't become something you wouldn't approve of?
This makes sense as many people don't like their children to be taught in religious schools if they themselves aren't religious.
Not that i agree this the best way to educate anyone.
No, I never said that is how we feel, but that is how many people feel.
I guess it is basic human instinct, you bring your children up to do what you think is best and try to prevent influences which you think are bad from pervading their lives.
That is called education, we believe that if they understand 3x3 is 9 then they will prosper better than if we teach the, 3x3 = 45. Therefore we teach them that it equals nine and limit exposure to mathematical anarchists who say 3x3 = 45.
The principle (emotional and arbitrary cultural rankings notwithstanding) is the same.
Facial tattoos shouldn't affect any of this though. I'm heavily tattooed and an anarchist but know my times table well enough. I think the fact that facial tattoos may not be aesthetically pleasing to everyone is not a good enough excuse to make them abnormal or the person wearing them unable to be employed.
The only 'decent' excuse i've seen so far is that it would be distracting, but if it was normal then it wouldn't be distracting anyway, and by making it abnormal we are causing the distraction, not the tattooed person.
To a lot of people Having a facial tattoo says a lot about the kind of person you are.
It says you haven't considered how the rest of society will treat you, or you have and just don't care and will live with the consequences.
Often to a potential employer neither option makes for an attractive perspective employee.
It shouldn't be this way but it is"
I think i know what you mean. We should be trained to do what everyone else wants and not do things for ourselves. I don't get how society agrees with this in the majority. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And why does her being lazy affect the conversation?
Because she has no concept of holding down a real job. She has an idealised notion that having tattoos shouldnt affect your employment...however would a barrister with neck/facial tattoos be taken seriously?
The actual debate wasnt the issue. It was her inability to look outside her own little world to what happens in real life...
She is right on that though, tattoos are superficial and shouldn't affect your ability to get a job.
I personally couldn't give shit abut working with the general public again, but if i did want to and my tattoos were used against me then that's not right.
People should be taken seriously for their skills, not their appearance, nor the effort they put into that. It's bigotry, pure and simple.
Unfortunately it will always be that way in certain industries. Every employee is an ambassador for the company. If the person cannot represent the company in a way deemed fitting for that company then they are obviously not a suitable employee.
It is also to do with the customers expectations. If they are not being met, or if the company will lose money due to an employees choices then the company will not hire that person.
Yeah i know that. I just think it's stupid and bigoted. But we live in an era that focuses more on looks than anything else, and have done for decades now.
Bigoted or not I wouldn't want my children taught be a teacher with tattoos all over their face,
Why not? If they're a good teacher, fully qualified and capable of teaching then that makes no sense.
Why would you value unblemished skin more than your childs education? Serious question.
Obviously I cannot speak for the previous poster, but my answer to that would be that people may be concerned what influence a child might take from someone who has tattooed their face. It is a mutilation of a person's body which rightly or wrongly has a profound effect on that person's life thereafter both socially and physically. It is also basically irreversible insofar as you cannot remove a facial tattoo without causing damage to the face.
A child is easily influenced by people they are close to and trust such as a teacher. Children should not tattoo their body as they are not old enough to understand the effect it will have on their lives and not mature enough to make a good decision on the tattoo in the first place.
Therefore not exposing them to that influence in the first place may be looked on by many as a good educational decision.
Interesting, so basically you feel that a childs education should be restricted culturally so that they don't become something you wouldn't approve of?
This makes sense as many people don't like their children to be taught in religious schools if they themselves aren't religious.
Not that i agree this the best way to educate anyone.
No, I never said that is how we feel, but that is how many people feel.
I guess it is basic human instinct, you bring your children up to do what you think is best and try to prevent influences which you think are bad from pervading their lives.
That is called education, we believe that if they understand 3x3 is 9 then they will prosper better than if we teach the, 3x3 = 45. Therefore we teach them that it equals nine and limit exposure to mathematical anarchists who say 3x3 = 45.
The principle (emotional and arbitrary cultural rankings notwithstanding) is the same.
Facial tattoos shouldn't affect any of this though. I'm heavily tattooed and an anarchist but know my times table well enough. I think the fact that facial tattoos may not be aesthetically pleasing to everyone is not a good enough excuse to make them abnormal or the person wearing them unable to be employed.
The only 'decent' excuse i've seen so far is that it would be distracting, but if it was normal then it wouldn't be distracting anyway, and by making it abnormal we are causing the distraction, not the tattooed person.
If you do not want your child to get their face irretrievably altered for the sake of fashion then you will stop them being influenced by people who think that is fine.
Just like if you do not want your child to grow up thinking that "all fucking niggers must fucking hang", you will stop them being influenced by racist violent fuckwits.
I would tend to agree with you that adults should not judge people by their appearance. But it is a natural thing to do. We are naturally xenophobic. Which is why when we are standing by the coast and a 90ft tentacled beast rises from the deep and heads for us we run like hell. We don't know what it is and we have an instinct that it looks a bit nasty so off we trot. That is xenophobia. That is also healthy.
Children especially hold great stock in being able to recognise a person's face and their facial expressions and they can be distressed when their natural ability to do this is altered. Adults to a similar degree but over time we learn to perceive more subtle traits as well as facial expression. But the loss of clear facial expression through a whole face tattoo limits the natural ability to communicate through that medium. An adult is capable of deciding for themselves if they want to limit their ability that way, but it does have an effect on others which may render them more suitable for certain jobs than others where that sort of communication is vital. Public facing roles often value that sort of communication.
Like it or lump it. We need to be able to see people's faces clearly to feel secure in our communications with them. It is a natural thing.
Possibly another argument: people who get tattoos frequently regret them in time. Which shows the decision they made was not a long term one and lacked vision. So that is a commentary on their personality and suitability for decision making roles.
This isn't always the case and is difficult to quantify but it is common enough to build up a perception in some people that certain tattoo related behaviours are the sign of poor decision making abilities. I am not sure I totally buy that but it does prevail in some instances."
Mostly people regret their tattoo because it was done by a crap artist and looks crap.
I agree with everything else you said about the facial expressions and being able to read them, and it made a lot of sense. Some cultures do have specific tattoos that define the face and contour to it, these are the exception to that theory.
My dad is racist and homophobic, growing up i knew he was wrong though so he hasn't influenced me in that way. I'm more intelligent, or more cultured and socialised maybe, than him and worked out for myself things he couldn't see for himself. So we don't always look up to those we should look up to. He has no tattoos btw. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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You can do what ever you like just know that it may have repercussions.
Unfortunately we live in a society where physical appearance matters.
But also you can actually tell a lot about a person by the way they look.
If you have a naughty word tattooed on your face then the hr people at a school are probably going to be looking at you and deciding that your the sort of person that holds values that a lot of parents won't want imparting to their children.
Also if you do harbour a burning desire to teach
Not understanding that this might be so probably indicates a lack of forethought and Insite into human nature. This is perhaps another reason not to employ you |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You can do what ever you like just know that it may have repercussions.
Unfortunately we live in a society where physical appearance matters.
But also you can actually tell a lot about a person by the way they look.
If you have a naughty word tattooed on your face then the hr people at a school are probably going to be looking at you and deciding that your the sort of person that holds values that a lot of parents won't want imparting to their children.
Also if you do harbour a burning desire to teach
Not understanding that this might be so probably indicates a lack of forethought and Insite into human nature. This is perhaps another reason not to employ you"
I'm a part of changing the system, i can get why people don't like that. Many people are adverse to change and enjoy stagnating.
It's also sad that people will judge anyone without knowing anything about them, sometimes people even don't make sense when they do this. Like one guy i know, who has no tattoos and is promiscuous, thinks i'm definitely promiscuous because i have tattoos, he doesn't see how weird that opinion is.
So it's still a bigoted view then, in your opinion? I don't think you csn judge anyone off their appearance, unless they have something that would be very specific on them. Even svastikas are used by people with spiritual tattoos and they get a lot of shit for it by people who don't know what a svastika really stands for and think it's the nazi symbol because of the prejudice that tattoos = criminals or scum sometimes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You can do what ever you like just know that it may have repercussions.
Unfortunately we live in a society where physical appearance matters.
But also you can actually tell a lot about a person by the way they look.
If you have a naughty word tattooed on your face then the hr people at a school are probably going to be looking at you and deciding that your the sort of person that holds values that a lot of parents won't want imparting to their children.
Also if you do harbour a burning desire to teach
Not understanding that this might be so probably indicates a lack of forethought and Insite into human nature. This is perhaps another reason not to employ you
I'm a part of changing the system, i can get why people don't like that. Many people are adverse to change and enjoy stagnating.
It's also sad that people will judge anyone without knowing anything about them, sometimes people even don't make sense when they do this. Like one guy i know, who has no tattoos and is promiscuous, thinks i'm definitely promiscuous because i have tattoos, he doesn't see how weird that opinion is.
So it's still a bigoted view then, in your opinion? I don't think you csn judge anyone off their appearance, unless they have something that would be very specific on them. Even svastikas are used by people with spiritual tattoos and they get a lot of shit for it by people who don't know what a svastika really stands for and think it's the nazi symbol because of the prejudice that tattoos = criminals or scum sometimes."
If you don't know some one then all you have to go by is their appearance.
Often that does tell you all you need to know about some one,
Say for instance you are alone at night in a secluded spot and there is a guy he has a knife in one hand and his penis in is other.
Are you going to say hmm this chap isn't conforming to social norms of personal decency but maybe he's misunderstood. Or are you going to think rapist.
Every one is entitled to be how they want to be but they need to bare in mine what society expects, not conforming has repercussions to think that it doesn't is naive |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You can do what ever you like just know that it may have repercussions.
Unfortunately we live in a society where physical appearance matters.
But also you can actually tell a lot about a person by the way they look.
If you have a naughty word tattooed on your face then the hr people at a school are probably going to be looking at you and deciding that your the sort of person that holds values that a lot of parents won't want imparting to their children.
Also if you do harbour a burning desire to teach
Not understanding that this might be so probably indicates a lack of forethought and Insite into human nature. This is perhaps another reason not to employ you
I'm a part of changing the system, i can get why people don't like that. Many people are adverse to change and enjoy stagnating.
It's also sad that people will judge anyone without knowing anything about them, sometimes people even don't make sense when they do this. Like one guy i know, who has no tattoos and is promiscuous, thinks i'm definitely promiscuous because i have tattoos, he doesn't see how weird that opinion is.
So it's still a bigoted view then, in your opinion? I don't think you csn judge anyone off their appearance, unless they have something that would be very specific on them. Even svastikas are used by people with spiritual tattoos and they get a lot of shit for it by people who don't know what a svastika really stands for and think it's the nazi symbol because of the prejudice that tattoos = criminals or scum sometimes.
If you don't know some one then all you have to go by is their appearance.
Often that does tell you all you need to know about some one,
Say for instance you are alone at night in a secluded spot and there is a guy he has a knife in one hand and his penis in is other.
Are you going to say hmm this chap isn't conforming to social norms of personal decency but maybe he's misunderstood. Or are you going to think rapist.
Every one is entitled to be how they want to be but they need to bare in mine what society expects, not conforming has repercussions to think that it doesn't is naive "
I don't conform to those norms so i do find it weird when others think this way, i do feel it will be down to both lack of experience and socialising outside of their own culture.
Knife and cock out are a bit different to general appearance (and most sexual attacks take place during the day not night), but yes i get that many people still are prejudice because they don't have the knowledge to be anything other than that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And why does her being lazy affect the conversation?
Because she has no concept of holding down a real job. She has an idealised notion that having tattoos shouldnt affect your employment...however would a barrister with neck/facial tattoos be taken seriously?
The actual debate wasnt the issue. It was her inability to look outside her own little world to what happens in real life...
She is right on that though, tattoos are superficial and shouldn't affect your ability to get a job.
I personally couldn't give shit abut working with the general public again, but if i did want to and my tattoos were used against me then that's not right.
People should be taken seriously for their skills, not their appearance, nor the effort they put into that. It's bigotry, pure and simple."
Well if I were a boss employing someone to represent my company and two people came at me with similar cv's the only thing different was one was covered in visible tattoos and one had no tattoos then I'm afraid to say I would go for the person without as would the majority of people I believe.... I know employers aren't allowed to discriminate but I still believe you win a job as soon as you walk through the door and present yourself . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Everybody has the right to do what they want, look how they want, live how they want, think how they want
The only time it pisses me off is when I'm expected to fund it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You can do what ever you like just know that it may have repercussions.
Unfortunately we live in a society where physical appearance matters.
But also you can actually tell a lot about a person by the way they look.
If you have a naughty word tattooed on your face then the hr people at a school are probably going to be looking at you and deciding that your the sort of person that holds values that a lot of parents won't want imparting to their children.
Also if you do harbour a burning desire to teach
Not understanding that this might be so probably indicates a lack of forethought and Insite into human nature. This is perhaps another reason not to employ you
I'm a part of changing the system, i can get why people don't like that. Many people are adverse to change and enjoy stagnating.
It's also sad that people will judge anyone without knowing anything about them, sometimes people even don't make sense when they do this. Like one guy i know, who has no tattoos and is promiscuous, thinks i'm definitely promiscuous because i have tattoos, he doesn't see how weird that opinion is.
So it's still a bigoted view then, in your opinion? I don't think you csn judge anyone off their appearance, unless they have something that would be very specific on them. Even svastikas are used by people with spiritual tattoos and they get a lot of shit for it by people who don't know what a svastika really stands for and think it's the nazi symbol because of the prejudice that tattoos = criminals or scum sometimes.
If you don't know some one then all you have to go by is their appearance.
Often that does tell you all you need to know about some one,
Say for instance you are alone at night in a secluded spot and there is a guy he has a knife in one hand and his penis in is other.
Are you going to say hmm this chap isn't conforming to social norms of personal decency but maybe he's misunderstood. Or are you going to think rapist.
Every one is entitled to be how they want to be but they need to bare in mine what society expects, not conforming has repercussions to think that it doesn't is naive
I don't conform to those norms so i do find it weird when others think this way, i do feel it will be down to both lack of experience and socialising outside of their own culture.
Knife and cock out are a bit different to general appearance (and most sexual attacks take place during the day not night), but yes i get that many people still are prejudice because they don't have the knowledge to be anything other than that."
I was using an extreme example to illustrate my point.
It's quite ironic actually how unempathic the statement about not understanding other people's views on this is.
Although you do have a point regarding people's outlook being shaped by there experiences |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think the way we can deal with norms, biggotism and fear is by exposure. Instead of having one point of view stating "that's the way it is" and keeping our society the way it is (which is built on inequality, poverty and injustice), we would profit from changing our outlook. Instead of relying on looks, contacts and money which obviously puts shiny looking but often incompetent people in powerful positions, we really should look to competence and differently thinking individuals. If we let competence rule, then it wouldn't take long for people to change their correlations between appearance and trustworthyness. And as a response to the comments about intelligence, people who doesn't follow norms are usually more intelligent than the ones who blindly follow socially constructed rules..
Also, in my experience, it's always been the shiny and proper that have physically attacked me on the street when I was a young teenager... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You can do what ever you like just know that it may have repercussions.
Unfortunately we live in a society where physical appearance matters.
But also you can actually tell a lot about a person by the way they look.
If you have a naughty word tattooed on your face then the hr people at a school are probably going to be looking at you and deciding that your the sort of person that holds values that a lot of parents won't want imparting to their children.
Also if you do harbour a burning desire to teach
Not understanding that this might be so probably indicates a lack of forethought and Insite into human nature. This is perhaps another reason not to employ you
I'm a part of changing the system, i can get why people don't like that. Many people are adverse to change and enjoy stagnating.
It's also sad that people will judge anyone without knowing anything about them, sometimes people even don't make sense when they do this. Like one guy i know, who has no tattoos and is promiscuous, thinks i'm definitely promiscuous because i have tattoos, he doesn't see how weird that opinion is.
So it's still a bigoted view then, in your opinion? I don't think you csn judge anyone off their appearance, unless they have something that would be very specific on them. Even svastikas are used by people with spiritual tattoos and they get a lot of shit for it by people who don't know what a svastika really stands for and think it's the nazi symbol because of the prejudice that tattoos = criminals or scum sometimes.
If you don't know some one then all you have to go by is their appearance.
Often that does tell you all you need to know about some one,
Say for instance you are alone at night in a secluded spot and there is a guy he has a knife in one hand and his penis in is other.
Are you going to say hmm this chap isn't conforming to social norms of personal decency but maybe he's misunderstood. Or are you going to think rapist.
Every one is entitled to be how they want to be but they need to bare in mine what society expects, not conforming has repercussions to think that it doesn't is naive
I don't conform to those norms so i do find it weird when others think this way, i do feel it will be down to both lack of experience and socialising outside of their own culture.
Knife and cock out are a bit different to general appearance (and most sexual attacks take place during the day not night), but yes i get that many people still are prejudice because they don't have the knowledge to be anything other than that.
I was using an extreme example to illustrate my point.
It's quite ironic actually how unempathic the statement about not understanding other people's views on this is.
Although you do have a point regarding people's outlook being shaped by there experiences "
Empathy is based on sharing similar experiences, one of my parents was a bigot and i never became one because i didn't experience the world in the way he did, i'm very observant on an individual level, therefore i will be unempathetic to those who generalise. Can't help it, that's how empathy works, sharing the same experiences, i haven't experienced the world in a way where generalisation of individuals makes sense. |
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