 |
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
What are you thoughts on the decision today? I'm not overly clued up on it all, but I can't understand the justification for rejecting it.
Would you considering aiding a loved one in Switzerland if the time ever came? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What are you thoughts on the decision today? I'm not overly clued up on it all, but I can't understand the justification for rejecting it.
Would you considering aiding a loved one in Switzerland if the time ever came? "
Absolutely without a doubt....habung watched a family member lay in a coma like state for years wasting away which was heartbreaking. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What are you thoughts on the decision today? I'm not overly clued up on it all, but I can't understand the justification for rejecting it.
Would you considering aiding a loved one in Switzerland if the time ever came? "
Yes, it depends on the circumstances, but I know for instance how badly my mother tolerates pain and when the time comes it would be an absolute nightmare to force her to suffer because there was no alternative.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Im not surprised it was thrown out as the bill its self didn't cover the people who really need assisted dying or those we see in the media.
The Bill was assisted dying for patients in their last 6 months of life signed off by 2 doctors and drawn up by a nursing member. The patient would then have to be able to take the medication them selves or switch on a syringe driver.
Ok so who would that help? Not those with "trapped in syndrome" not MND/ALS patients, not those that are paralysed and getting constant chest infections. Because when those patients are in the last 6 months they wouldn't be able to take the draft themselves
So who is left? Cancer patients. A huge proportion of cancer patients who are at the end of life have confortable deaths and a last comfortable 6 months. Those that don't? Usually due to lack of palliative care services available - a patient that wants to die often changes their mind after 48hrs of specialised palliative care.
So the answer? Fund heavily in palliative care to ensure people have pain free deaths
And if another Bill is to go through - target the correct patients - the MND patients etc where the last 6 months is often too late
On another note- who would fund the centre and more importantly, nurses and doctors are trained to preserve life- who is going to work in these centres |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
This would I'm sure be an open vote down to the beliefs of the individual MPs and I sympathise with people in this position but would have found it difficult to vote for it. It's a huge moral dilemma. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I actually think it goes on anyway as its both humane and a common sense approach. The law can only operate on mass and isn't flexible enough to accommodate every situation. As to the question would I? Absolutely. And I hope someone would do the same for me. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It's compassionate to put our beloved pets to sleep when they're suffering yet illegal to do the same with a human. Doesn't seem right to me.
"
This! 
I won't watch my parents suffer. We've had this conversation already while they are of sound mind. Doing the right thing is not a moral dilemma for me. It's a no brainer.
I can't speak for everyone though, not everyone has the same thinking as I do so I can understand the reluctance to pass it. There are some bad people in the world who could exploit it I guess. Trying to regulate it would be a bit of a logistical nightmare but I wouldn't watch an animal suffer, why should it be different for a human when their quality of life is zero?  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I actually think it goes on anyway as its both humane and a common sense approach. The law can only operate on mass and isn't flexible enough to accommodate every situation. As to the question would I? Absolutely. And I hope someone would do the same for me."
It does. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
This has been such a thought provoking debate over the past few years and I think inevitably it will become law at some point.
Putting aside the political and legal arguments I just think that if it was me I would prefer not to be trapped in my own body. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I have spoken to my kids about this and its a one way ticket to the alps for me  .
I don't believe in prolonging life for a just a few months at vast cost to the state either. It's a selfish attitude |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
As a carer in a home and seeing residents in pain and a long, drawn out death I am all for it, I know that it's a little different to people with terminal illness at a younger age but the same still applies for me, if I had it anyone close to me expressed a wish to end there life in this way that had a terminal illness etc, I would without doubt help them all I could. With an animal we don't let them suffer, yet they are just pets, not people. Just my _iew x |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I think unless we found ourselves involved in a real-time situation we can only imagine how we'd face those dreadfully challenging decisions....
I don't know what I believe or what I would do....
I just know kindness would be my driving motive...  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The vast majority of the public seem to be in favour yet the bills get rejected time after time.
This bill was not particularly well drafted but it is high time for public opinion on the concept to be heeded.
I read Mr Pratchett's lecture on assisted dying recently and could not fault it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"What are you thoughts on the decision today? I'm not overly clued up on it all, but I can't understand the justification for rejecting it.
Would you considering aiding a loved one in Switzerland if the time ever came?
Absolutely without a doubt....habung watched a family member lay in a coma like state for years wasting away which was heartbreaking."
that must have been a horrible experience for you and your family |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"It's compassionate to put our beloved pets to sleep when they're suffering yet illegal to do the same with a human. Doesn't seem right to me.
"
See, my gut instinct is exactly this |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Im not surprised it was thrown out as the bill its self didn't cover the people who really need assisted dying or those we see in the media.
The Bill was assisted dying for patients in their last 6 months of life signed off by 2 doctors and drawn up by a nursing member. The patient would then have to be able to take the medication them selves or switch on a syringe driver.
Ok so who would that help? Not those with "trapped in syndrome" not MND/ALS patients, not those that are paralysed and getting constant chest infections. Because when those patients are in the last 6 months they wouldn't be able to take the draft themselves
So who is left? Cancer patients. A huge proportion of cancer patients who are at the end of life have confortable deaths and a last comfortable 6 months. Those that don't? Usually due to lack of palliative care services available - a patient that wants to die often changes their mind after 48hrs of specialised palliative care.
So the answer? Fund heavily in palliative care to ensure people have pain free deaths
And if another Bill is to go through - target the correct patients - the MND patients etc where the last 6 months is often too late
On another note- who would fund the centre and more importantly, nurses and doctors are trained to preserve life- who is going to work in these centres "
Exactly the type of informed opinion I'm seeking
Who administered the care in the centres we hear about in Switzerland and other such EU states (if there are any others?!) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"The vast majority of the public seem to be in favour yet the bills get rejected time after time.
This bill was not particularly well drafted but it is high time for public opinion on the concept to be heeded.
I read Mr Pratchett's lecture on assisted dying recently and could not fault it."
Can you summarise it please? (appreciated a google search will yield results, but you know) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The vast majority of the public seem to be in favour yet the bills get rejected time after time.
This bill was not particularly well drafted but it is high time for public opinion on the concept to be heeded.
I read Mr Pratchett's lecture on assisted dying recently and could not fault it.
Can you summarise it please? (appreciated a google search will yield results, but you know)"
No but you can watch the lecture free on youtube. Shaking Hands with Death. The Richard Dimbleby Lecture.
By way of background, he was too ill to deliver the speech himself. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *iewMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Angus & Findhorn |
I think it is terrible to watch people suffer and I am a believer but there must be safeguard upon safeguard.
I shudder to think of the pressure some people may put on elderly or the infirm. Families can be amazingly loving and horrendously cruel. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
As hard as it would be, yes.
It's an awkward one though as they must be able to take the medication themselves.
Me and Bradley were talking about this last night and agreed that neither of us would want to live in a vegetative state, whether due to accident or illness, etc.
But if you can't speak or swallow, I would assume you were kind of stuck...? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Plus, you could get a lot of pressure from families."
There is no evidence of that having occurred in Switzerland. It does not seem to be a significant issue to weigh in the overall balance. Yet it is always raised as a reason to defeat these bills. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I work in specialised End of Life Care & I see this everyday.
A lot of my patients don't want to be a burden on their family or want their loved ones to see them waste away.
For some cases I agree it would be better but in others it would be abused.
I watch my Father die 11 weeks after being diagnosed with Mesothelioma.
He was emaciated & just a shell of the man he used to be.
He asked me to help him but my hands were tied..... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Plus, you could get a lot of pressure from families.
There is no evidence of that having occurred in Switzerland. It does not seem to be a significant issue to weigh in the overall balance. Yet it is always raised as a reason to defeat these bills."
No, but you do have many people out there that have £-signs for eyeballs.
If you have someone who is already vulnerable, in shock and possibly depressed and there are greedy relatives expecting an inheritence you could end up with all sorts going on behind closed doors. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Plus, you could get a lot of pressure from families.
There is no evidence of that having occurred in Switzerland. It does not seem to be a significant issue to weigh in the overall balance. Yet it is always raised as a reason to defeat these bills.
No, but you do have many people out there that have £-signs for eyeballs.
If you have someone who is already vulnerable, in shock and possibly depressed and there are greedy relatives expecting an inheritence you could end up with all sorts going on behind closed doors."
Again, no evidence of this having occurred in Switzerland. Would it happen in your house? Mine neither. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Plus, you could get a lot of pressure from families.
There is no evidence of that having occurred in Switzerland. It does not seem to be a significant issue to weigh in the overall balance. Yet it is always raised as a reason to defeat these bills.
No, but you do have many people out there that have £-signs for eyeballs.
If you have someone who is already vulnerable, in shock and possibly depressed and there are greedy relatives expecting an inheritence you could end up with all sorts going on behind closed doors.
Again, no evidence of this having occurred in Switzerland. Would it happen in your house? Mine neither."
How would you gather evidence unless said person had 24/7 CCTV/recording devices installed in their room or had constant supervision while family were visiting? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Plus, you could get a lot of pressure from families.
There is no evidence of that having occurred in Switzerland. It does not seem to be a significant issue to weigh in the overall balance. Yet it is always raised as a reason to defeat these bills.
No, but you do have many people out there that have £-signs for eyeballs.
If you have someone who is already vulnerable, in shock and possibly depressed and there are greedy relatives expecting an inheritence you could end up with all sorts going on behind closed doors.
Again, no evidence of this having occurred in Switzerland. Would it happen in your house? Mine neither.
How would you gather evidence unless said person had 24/7 CCTV/recording devices installed in their room or had constant supervision while family were visiting?"
The same could be said for any crime committed in private, could it not? Yet there are plenty of prosecutions.
Two arguments are used against assisted dying.
1. Greedy families. No evidence. (Being horribly brutal, but logical, if the dying person is going to exit their life before long in any event, what benefit would the greedy family have anyway?)
2. Crossing the line. What line is that? If is the line that says we will not allow empathy, sympathy and an end to suffering then I am happy to see us cross that line. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *annGentMan
over a year ago
With a cracking _iew |
"It's compassionate to put our beloved pets to sleep when they're suffering yet illegal to do the same with a human. Doesn't seem right to me.
"
My first wife died of a then untreatable cancer ...
Dignitas started 11 years after she died.
Would we have discussed it as an option?
Yes !!!
No idea what the outcome to our discussions would have been, but I think it would have been one of investigating all options more fully.
Could I do as Gill Pharoah did, in July ?
Probably ...
Gill ended her life, aged 75, at a Swiss suicide clinic, as she saw old age, through her nursing experiences, as not being fun.
She did not have serious health issues, and was not suffering from any terminal disease.
Her partner and children supported her decision, though I doubt anyone could imagine the emotions that came with it for them.
As it stands, it is illegal, in UK Law, to assist a suicide ...
Where does that leave supportive family members who travel with their loved one to Switzerland ?
I want, if the situation was to arise, to have the choice of ending my life if I chose that ... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
