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Refugees
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"There does seem to be a disproportionately high percentage of able bodied young men amongst the footage of those arriving in Germany and elsewhere, even at the camps in Calais trying to cross the Channel. Now you could argue that these are the people most at risk of persecution in war zones, and so most in need of protection, but I do wonder where their wives and children are. " Yeah that's what I am thinking especially now that ISIS have stated that rape is a part of war! I wouldn't leave my wife or children. | |||
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"It's very harrowing watching these horrific scenes. Babies being washed up on beaches and people being caged up. But..... If you look at these pictures a very high percentage seem to be very fit males. Very few women and children. We of course should make sure everyone is treated the same but do you recall ISIS promising to flood Europe with their soldiers? I am not saying they all are but do you think a percentage of them are and what will be the consequences for Europe? Tough one eh?" yes we are doomed we just don't know who the terrorists are anymore I think someone should check David Cameron out !!!  | |||
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"There does seem to be a disproportionately high percentage of able bodied young men amongst the footage of those arriving in Germany and elsewhere, even at the camps in Calais trying to cross the Channel. Now you could argue that these are the people most at risk of persecution in war zones, and so most in need of protection, but I do wonder where their wives and children are. Yeah that's what I am thinking especially now that ISIS have stated that rape is a part of war! I wouldn't leave my wife or children. "  | |||
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"Wonder how many of those young men going to join fab there might be a big rise in single males next month whats your views " I doubt it. A few months ago, when all the hate was directed at the Eastern Europeans fleeing civil war (you know, those white, Catholic ones) I nearly posted the observation that it was remarkable how few eastern europeans posted in the forums during the day, presumably they were all working (and paying taxes)
Mr ddc | |||
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"There does seem to be a disproportionately high percentage of able bodied young men amongst the footage of those arriving in Germany and elsewhere, even at the camps in Calais trying to cross the Channel. Now you could argue that these are the people most at risk of persecution in war zones, and so most in need of protection, but I do wonder where their wives and children are. " When the little boy washed up, everyone said "What sort of heartless fool brings his wife and children on such a dangerous, arduous journey?" Guess they can't win... | |||
"Why do people keep asking where their wives and children are? Has it crossed anyone's braincell ever that single men can be refugees too? Honestly, get a clue." Did you read my post? Suggest you go back and re-read it  | |||
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"Doing so has made no difference, sorry." What part of it are you struggling with? | |||
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"Why you wonder where their wives and children are. Why do you wonder?" Oh I thought it might have been the recognition that single guys might be a group at higher risk of persecution and hence in genuine need of protection bit that you struggled with? Nothing in my post to suggest that they can't be in need of refugee status as you claimed ... 
I made an observation that a disproportionately high percentage seem to be from this group and most (not all, by any stretch of the imagination) appear to be on their own and without any other family? It makes me wonder if they do have family why they left them behind, and if they don't have family then I stand by my point that there's a skewed % of young single men refugees.
Just saying what I see. | |||
"Why you wonder where their wives and children are. Why do you wonder? Oh I thought it might have been the recognition that single guys might be a group at higher risk of persecution and hence in genuine need of protection bit that you struggled with? Nothing in my post to suggest that they can't be in need of refugee status as you claimed ...
I made an observation that a disproportionately high percentage seem to be from this group and most (not all, by any stretch of the imagination) appear to be on their own and without any other family? It makes me wonder if they do have family why they left them behind, and if they don't have family then I stand by my point that there's a skewed % of young single men refugees.
Just saying what I see. "Let supposition reign, eh? | |||
"It's very harrowing watching these horrific scenes. Babies being washed up on beaches and people being caged up. But..... If you look at these pictures a very high percentage seem to be very fit males. Very few women and children. We of course should make sure everyone is treated the same but do you recall ISIS promising to flood Europe with their soldiers? I am not saying they all are but do you think a percentage of them are and what will be the consequences for Europe? Tough one eh?yes we are doomed we just don't know who the terrorists are anymore I think someone should check David Cameron out !!! "hey how can people on here actually take serious threads seriously with tits cocks pussies and arses sticking out everywhere sorry makes me laugh ,don't know about you  | |||
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"Why you wonder where their wives and children are. Why do you wonder? Oh I thought it might have been the recognition that single guys might be a group at higher risk of persecution and hence in genuine need of protection bit that you struggled with? Nothing in my post to suggest that they can't be in need of refugee status as you claimed ...
I made an observation that a disproportionately high percentage seem to be from this group and most (not all, by any stretch of the imagination) appear to be on their own and without any other family? It makes me wonder if they do have family why they left them behind, and if they don't have family then I stand by my point that there's a skewed % of young single men refugees.
Just saying what I see.
Let supposition reign, eh?"I've not supposed anything. You're the one making that leap | |||
"Why you wonder where their wives and children are. Why do you wonder? Oh I thought it might have been the recognition that single guys might be a group at higher risk of persecution and hence in genuine need of protection bit that you struggled with? Nothing in my post to suggest that they can't be in need of refugee status as you claimed ...
I made an observation that a disproportionately high percentage seem to be from this group and most (not all, by any stretch of the imagination) appear to be on their own and without any other family? It makes me wonder if they do have family why they left them behind, and if they don't have family then I stand by my point that there's a skewed % of young single men refugees.
Just saying what I see.
Let supposition reign, eh?
I've not supposed anything. You're the one making that leap "Seems it's time for you to go back and read your own posts now. Give them a real going over this time though, eh? It will help avoid confusion. | |||
"It's very harrowing watching these horrific scenes. Babies being washed up on beaches and people being caged up. But..... If you look at these pictures a very high percentage seem to be very fit males. Very few women and children. We of course should make sure everyone is treated the same but do you recall ISIS promising to flood Europe with their soldiers? I am not saying they all are but do you think a percentage of them are and what will be the consequences for Europe? Tough one eh?" Said the exact same thing a couple of days ago on FB. This looks more like an invasion to me. The families are the unfortunate camouflage and are sadly losing their lives. | |||
" I made an observation that a disproportionately high percentage seem to be from this group and most (not all, by any stretch of the imagination) appear to be on their own and without any other family? It makes me wonder if they do have family why they left them behind, and if they don't have family then I stand by my point that there's a skewed % of young single men refugees. Just saying what I see. " Many older people will not travel. Syria (et al) is their home that they've lived in all their lives and they don't want to leave it. They would rather risk the war than move to a different country. Many women with children will not travel. They believe that the journey is too risky to make with their child. It is also more expensive to take two of you than to take one of you. Many family units send the man to find sanctuary first, because he is the healthiest and strongest member of the family. He can go ahead, secure refugee status, and then send for his wife and children which is not quite so dangerous and less expensive. The camps around the borders of Syria are disproportionately made up from women and children, the inverse of the camps in Europe. The journey from those camps to safety in Europe is very dangerous, especially if you are a woman. | |||
"It's very harrowing watching these horrific scenes. Babies being washed up on beaches and people being caged up. But..... If you look at these pictures a very high percentage seem to be very fit males. Very few women and children. We of course should make sure everyone is treated the same but do you recall ISIS promising to flood Europe with their soldiers? I am not saying they all are but do you think a percentage of them are and what will be the consequences for Europe? Tough one eh? Said the exact same thing a couple of days ago on FB. This looks more like an invasion to me. The families are the unfortunate camouflage and are sadly losing their lives." These posts are very revealing. Confirmation bias ahoy, captain! | |||
"Why you wonder where their wives and children are. Why do you wonder? Oh I thought it might have been the recognition that single guys might be a group at higher risk of persecution and hence in genuine need of protection bit that you struggled with? Nothing in my post to suggest that they can't be in need of refugee status as you claimed ...
I made an observation that a disproportionately high percentage seem to be from this group and most (not all, by any stretch of the imagination) appear to be on their own and without any other family? It makes me wonder if they do have family why they left them behind, and if they don't have family then I stand by my point that there's a skewed % of young single men refugees.
Just saying what I see.
Let supposition reign, eh?
I've not supposed anything. You're the one making that leap
Seems it's time for you to go back and read your own posts now. Give them a real going over this time though, eh? It will help avoid confusion."Help me my friend because I am indeed confused. If you quote the section where I've made a supposition on this subject I will make a full and public retraction and apology.. | |||
"There does seem to be a disproportionately high percentage of able bodied young men amongst the footage of those arriving in Germany and elsewhere, even at the camps in Calais trying to cross the Channel. Now you could argue that these are the people most at risk of persecution in war zones, and so most in need of protection, but I do wonder where their wives and children are. " If you notice these so called migrants , why do most of the men want to hide there faces with hands ,hoodies and scarfs etc. Would I be wrong in guessing something to hide, possibly nasty ideas on mainland Europe The point so many of us seem to miss is that one they have there cards in Germany they can legally travel through Europe . So were do you think the next stop might be ??? | |||
"The point so many of us seem to miss is that one they have there cards in Germany they can legally travel through Europe . So were do you think the next stop might be ??? " Probably not here. Britain has shit weather. | |||
"Why you wonder where their wives and children are. Why do you wonder? Oh I thought it might have been the recognition that single guys might be a group at higher risk of persecution and hence in genuine need of protection bit that you struggled with? Nothing in my post to suggest that they can't be in need of refugee status as you claimed ...
I made an observation that a disproportionately high percentage seem to be from this group and most (not all, by any stretch of the imagination) appear to be on their own and without any other family? It makes me wonder if they do have family why they left them behind, and if they don't have family then I stand by my point that there's a skewed % of young single men refugees.
Just saying what I see.
Let supposition reign, eh?
I've not supposed anything. You're the one making that leap
Seems it's time for you to go back and read your own posts now. Give them a real going over this time though, eh? It will help avoid confusion.
Help me my friend because I am indeed confused. If you quote the section where I've made a supposition on this subject I will make a full and public retraction and apology.. "Read your own words, and have a good think. If you can't understand what you've written after that, me repeating them to you isn't going to help. | |||
"The point so many of us seem to miss is that one they have there cards in Germany they can legally travel through Europe . So were do you think the next stop might be ??? Probably not here. Britain has shit weather." Can we narrow it down to places with nice weather and friendly people? | |||
"Why you wonder where their wives and children are. Why do you wonder? Oh I thought it might have been the recognition that single guys might be a group at higher risk of persecution and hence in genuine need of protection bit that you struggled with? Nothing in my post to suggest that they can't be in need of refugee status as you claimed ...
I made an observation that a disproportionately high percentage seem to be from this group and most (not all, by any stretch of the imagination) appear to be on their own and without any other family? It makes me wonder if they do have family why they left them behind, and if they don't have family then I stand by my point that there's a skewed % of young single men refugees.
Just saying what I see.
Let supposition reign, eh?
I've not supposed anything. You're the one making that leap
Seems it's time for you to go back and read your own posts now. Give them a real going over this time though, eh? It will help avoid confusion.
Help me my friend because I am indeed confused. If you quote the section where I've made a supposition on this subject I will make a full and public retraction and apology..
Read your own words, and have a good think. If you can't understand what you've written after that, me repeating them to you isn't going to help."That's a cop out and you know it! Lol. Anyway, you interpret how you want, and I will how I want (and meant, in the post I made, which to be clear wasn't the opening post or any made by other people) and let's let other people interpret how they want. Some will interpret as you have, some will see exactly as I've written it. Have a good day | |||
"It's very harrowing watching these horrific scenes. Babies being washed up on beaches and people being caged up. But..... If you look at these pictures a very high percentage seem to be very fit males. Very few women and children. We of course should make sure everyone is treated the same but do you recall ISIS promising to flood Europe with their soldiers? I am not saying they all are but do you think a percentage of them are and what will be the consequences for Europe? Tough one eh?" this is exactly what i said to my partner. | |||
" I made an observation that a disproportionately high percentage seem to be from this group and most (not all, by any stretch of the imagination) appear to be on their own and without any other family? It makes me wonder if they do have family why they left them behind, and if they don't have family then I stand by my point that there's a skewed % of young single men refugees. Just saying what I see. Many older people will not travel. Syria (et al) is their home that they've lived in all their lives and they don't want to leave it. They would rather risk the war than move to a different country. Many women with children will not travel. They believe that the journey is too risky to make with their child. It is also more expensive to take two of you than to take one of you. Many family units send the man to find sanctuary first, because he is the healthiest and strongest member of the family. He can go ahead, secure refugee status, and then send for his wife and children which is not quite so dangerous and less expensive. The camps around the borders of Syria are disproportionately made up from women and children, the inverse of the camps in Europe. The journey from those camps to safety in Europe is very dangerous, especially if you are a woman." The simple truth. Unfortunately, it will be ignored by those with an irrational fear of brown skin. Reminds me very much of the ancient witch tests. Only women could be witches so by dunking women in the river it was possible to see if she was a witch. If she did not drown, she was definately a witch. Perhaps we should adopt a similar Al Quieda/Taliban/ISIL/ISIS test on all people with brown skin who dont speek proppa Inglish? | |||
" I made an observation that a disproportionately high percentage seem to be from this group and most (not all, by any stretch of the imagination) appear to be on their own and without any other family? It makes me wonder if they do have family why they left them behind, and if they don't have family then I stand by my point that there's a skewed % of young single men refugees. Just saying what I see. Many older people will not travel. Syria (et al) is their home that they've lived in all their lives and they don't want to leave it. They would rather risk the war than move to a different country. Many women with children will not travel. They believe that the journey is too risky to make with their child. It is also more expensive to take two of you than to take one of you. Many family units send the man to find sanctuary first, because he is the healthiest and strongest member of the family. He can go ahead, secure refugee status, and then send for his wife and children which is not quite so dangerous and less expensive. The camps around the borders of Syria are disproportionately made up from women and children, the inverse of the camps in Europe. The journey from those camps to safety in Europe is very dangerous, especially if you are a woman." yes, that's a very articulate and sensible response (as usual from you Wasp) and it makes a lot of sense and adds a lot of perspective.
Also a refreshing change from an immediate (thinly veiled) implication that a factual observation of what's happening on the ground and question makes the observer / questioner some sort of rabid 'send 'em home' racist | |||
"It's very harrowing watching these horrific scenes. Babies being washed up on beaches and people being caged up. But..... If you look at these pictures a very high percentage seem to be very fit males. Very few women and children. We of course should make sure everyone is treated the same but do you recall ISIS promising to flood Europe with their soldiers? I am not saying they all are but do you think a percentage of them are and what will be the consequences for Europe? Tough one eh? Said the exact same thing a couple of days ago on FB. This looks more like an invasion to me. The families are the unfortunate camouflage and are sadly losing their lives. These posts are very revealing. Confirmation bias ahoy, captain!" Not sure what my post is "revealing" and how bias comes into anything I said? | |||
" Also a refreshing change from an immediate (thinly veiled) implication that a factual observation of what's happening on the ground and question makes the observer / questioner some sort of rabid 'send 'em home' racist "Oh, don't get me wrong, I still think that people who write posts about about how all these young men might be terrorists are still mostly raving racists. | |||
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" Also a refreshing change from an immediate (thinly veiled) implication that a factual observation of what's happening on the ground and question makes the observer / questioner some sort of rabid 'send 'em home' racist
Oh, don't get me wrong, I still think that people who write posts about about how all these young men might be terrorists are still mostly raving racists."I think some people are just genuinely afraid When you think about it there is nothing to stop ISIS members posing as immigrants to get into the country but what do you do, turn away innocent people just looking for safety in the hope you stop a hand full of imposters? | |||
" Also a refreshing change from an immediate (thinly veiled) implication that a factual observation of what's happening on the ground and question makes the observer / questioner some sort of rabid 'send 'em home' racist
Oh, don't get me wrong, I still think that people who write posts about about how all these young men might be terrorists are still mostly raving racists." true but not everyone says or thinks that. In any debate there is room for middle ground and sensible questioning without an immediate assumption / implication that the other party is either far left or far right (depending on their viewpoint) | |||
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" Also a refreshing change from an immediate (thinly veiled) implication that a factual observation of what's happening on the ground and question makes the observer / questioner some sort of rabid 'send 'em home' racist
Oh, don't get me wrong, I still think that people who write posts about about how all these young men might be terrorists are still mostly raving racists.
I think some people are just genuinely afraid
When you think about it there is nothing to stop ISIS members posing as immigrants to get into the country
but what do you do, turn away innocent people just looking for safety in the hope you stop a hand full of imposters? "
I've spoken to people about this who are all for helping these refugees but have genuine and justified concerns (and to be fair, they have a point) that there are thousands of young men coming into Europe and we have no idea who they are.
And it's not just about "protecting our own", what's the point in these people making life-threatening journeys looking for a safe haven for their families if we then can't even ensure that for them? | |||
" Also a refreshing change from an immediate (thinly veiled) implication that a factual observation of what's happening on the ground and question makes the observer / questioner some sort of rabid 'send 'em home' racist
Oh, don't get me wrong, I still think that people who write posts about about how all these young men might be terrorists are still mostly raving racists.
I think some people are just genuinely afraid
When you think about it there is nothing to stop ISIS members posing as immigrants to get into the country
but what do you do, turn away innocent people just looking for safety in the hope you stop a hand full of imposters?
I've spoken to people about this who are all for helping these refugees but have genuine and justified concerns (and to be fair, they have a point) that there are thousands of young men coming into Europe and we have no idea who they are.
And it's not just about "protecting our own", what's the point in these people making life-threatening journeys looking for a safe haven for their families if we then can't even ensure that for them?"However, the problem is that there is no genuine way of knowing the difference, so I guess all we can do is hope for the best *shrugs*. | |||
" Also a refreshing change from an immediate (thinly veiled) implication that a factual observation of what's happening on the ground and question makes the observer / questioner some sort of rabid 'send 'em home' racist
Oh, don't get me wrong, I still think that people who write posts about about how all these young men might be terrorists are still mostly raving racists."No one has said all of them might be terrorists. Simply that the possibility some of them could be. | |||
"It's very harrowing watching these horrific scenes. Babies being washed up on beaches and people being caged up. But..... If you look at these pictures a very high percentage seem to be very fit males. Very few women and children. We of course should make sure everyone is treated the same but do you recall ISIS promising to flood Europe with their soldiers? I am not saying they all are but do you think a percentage of them are and what will be the consequences for Europe? Tough one eh?yes we are doomed we just don't know who the terrorists are anymore I think someone should check David Cameron out !!! "We could take a hint out of good morning Vietnam film, ask everyone that enters are they a terrorist. Those that say yes, we arrest. | |||
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"Do yourself a favour and Google which country has never been attacked by muslim extremists. The only one who comes up is Japan. Read why. " I'm pretty certain that Ecuador hasn't been bothered, either....  | |||
" Also a refreshing change from an immediate (thinly veiled) implication that a factual observation of what's happening on the ground and question makes the observer / questioner some sort of rabid 'send 'em home' racist
Oh, don't get me wrong, I still think that people who write posts about about how all these young men might be terrorists are still mostly raving racists."Indeed. It's Fab's 'closet' racist litmus test, for sure. | |||
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"Only takes one Isis member to come in to change things. He could target lots of people, or he could recruit and train others in the country." The internet has already removed international borders for this kind of thing. We should be far, far more concerned about what is happening on the internet, than in refugee camps when it comes to terrorism. However that's a rather inconvenient fact, since most people like the internet and wouldn't want it taken away from them in any way. | |||
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"Get in there 1st and bomb the fucking lot b4 thay get here Or we will all end up like lee rigby" Including the women and children they hide behind? | |||
"Now this is a statement that in reality may not be so easy to put into practice, God forbid that we should be in the situation But if someone/s had bombed my country and killed my family the very last thing I would think about doing was walking thousands of miles to a country that probably doesn't want me anyway. I would stay and fight and seek revenge. So a healthy strong fit male can set off on such an difficult journey claiming to be unfit to stay and fight. Running to protect and remove my family from threat is another thing entirely. I seem to remember a small Austrian chap and his followers levelling huge parts of Europe and England. Did we flee? No we stood United together and fought back. Yes the situation is different but the principal is the same. Death and destruction. Hundreds and thousands of unknowns being let into various very important countries across Europe in my a recipe for disaster. It's such a difficult problem with no easy answer. But least we forget what two radicalised nationals did to Lee Rigby. Now imagine what hundreds of radicalised non nationals can do? Nato needs to do more now In Syria to prevent the killing and destruction. " Erm no. Those that stayed and fought got their arses kicked. Once their arses were kicked they had to conform to the nazi way and many did. The resistance was little more than an annoyance and many did flee. UK was lucky we had a stretch of water that was not so easy to bliz-kreg their way across otherwise we'd have been spanked as easily on our own soil as we were in France. After that it was an air battle which we were thankfully better at fighting than a land campaign. Then once Russia and the USA were dragged in we had some firepower on land to match our air. Point being when Churchill said never had so many owed so much to so few he was not fucking kidding. He knew if German boots landed on UK soil we'd be in for one hell of a time. Very easy to say we resisted why don't they. Well they have and for 5 years their country has been at war against an internal tyrant, neighbouring power plays and foreign extremist. That is way way different. One war is not like the other and you can't equate when the battlefields, technology, waring parties and financial backing are completely different not to mention the highly significant difference in time periods. | |||
"Are they all ISIS terrorists? Of course not. Are some likely to be ISIS terrorists? Almost certainly. Should we be letting any of them in? That is the tough one. Firstly let us be clear about one thing. None and I mean NONE of the boat people arriving in Germany via Hungary, Greece and Turkey are genuine refugees. All of them arrived in Europe from a safe country. Turkey is a member of NATO and an EU applicant country and is deemed safe. To be fair Turkey doesn't offer the opportunities that can be found in Germany, Britain, Sweden Etc. but anyone looking for "better opportunities" is by definition an economic migrant not a refugee. I accept that there is a genuine refugee problem in Syria and some of it is of our (the west's) making and we should be willing to help. However that help should not be given to chancer's who want to kick the back door in and demand to live here, many of them are not even Syrian. There are hundreds of thousands in the refugee camps who are much more genuine and much more deserving of our help. As for the ones coming into Italy from Libya. Most of them are from sub Saharan Africa and are not fleeing war. They may be running away from a government they don't like, there may even be some local trouble in their own country, but nothing like the genocide being committed by ISIS in Syria. So to me these are also economic migrants wanting to kick the back door down and break into our house. To sum up. Britain and the rest of Europe should be working together to take a reasonable number of genuine refugees from the camps in the region, but the door must be slammed shut on the thugs trying to illegally break in to Europe. Those caught should be immediately sent back." 100% YES. The issue is we were happy to let them pile up in the camps. Saying it was not our problem. (our being EU, USA, RUSSIAN Etc) But take somewhere like Lebanon they have close to a million people there. They have taken worker status away from refugee men, and the aid from the UN is only funded up to a 1/3rd so what will they do, they will come and what will happen loads of others will mingle in with them as it's a good time to slip through the net. | |||
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"Sorry, I think I've got the wrong page. I didn't realise I was on the comments page of the Daily Mail's website. " Well I can assure you it aint the bloody Guardian. 
Thinking about it, the Mail gets a lot of stick on here from the red tie wearers, and while I'm not its biggest fan I'd much rather read it that the fucking pricks that write in the Guardian or the obnoxious dickhead Kevin McGuire from the Mirror. | |||
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"The fear, xenophobia and hatred promoted by this government and its media is, quite frankly, shocking. The fact we have daily threads on this subject is testament to the success of this manipulation and the divisions it places within our society. Many of the comments disappoint me on such a basic human level it is hard to express that with words. For that reason, I intend to make no further comment on this thread or others like it. As you were "Bye X | |||
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"Now this is a statement that in reality may not be so easy to put into practice, God forbid that we should be in the situation But if someone/s had bombed my country and killed my family the very last thing I would think about doing was walking thousands of miles to a country that probably doesn't want me anyway. I would stay and fight and seek revenge. So a healthy strong fit male can set off on such an difficult journey claiming to be unfit to stay and fight. Running to protect and remove my family from threat is another thing entirely. I seem to remember a small Austrian chap and his followers levelling huge parts of Europe and England. Did we flee? No we stood United together and fought back. Yes the situation is different but the principal is the same. Death and destruction. Hundreds and thousands of unknowns being let into various very important countries across Europe in my a recipe for disaster. It's such a difficult problem with no easy answer. But least we forget what two radicalised nationals did to Lee Rigby. Now imagine what hundreds of radicalised non nationals can do? Nato needs to do more now In Syria to prevent the killing and destruction. " What history books have you been reading? There were MILLIONS of refugees in WW2 and they came from all the Nazi occupied countries and were of all races, religious followers and creeds. | |||
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"The fear, xenophobia and hatred promoted by this government and its media is, quite frankly, shocking. The fact we have daily threads on this subject is testament to the success of this manipulation and the divisions it places within our society. Many of the comments disappoint me on such a basic human level it is hard to express that with words. For that reason, I intend to make no further comment on this thread or others like it. As you were
Bye X "Going somewhere? Good. | |||
"Has anyone else seen the real picture of the young boy washed up on the beach? From what I've read the published photograph was staged. The child was found in a small cove but his body was moved and positioned for a greater propaganda impact. Tragic that a dead child is used in such a way. There does seem to be a disproportionate number of fighting aged males in the group's of refugees which is a cause for great concern, especially after the threats made by ISIS. I hope we don't end up regretting our decision to help them and our compassion isn't our undoing." Another view would be that the real tragedy is that we need press photographs of dead 3 year old children to make us show compassion. | |||
"The fear, xenophobia and hatred promoted by this government and its media is, quite frankly, shocking. The fact we have daily threads on this subject is testament to the success of this manipulation and the divisions it places within our society. Many of the comments disappoint me on such a basic human level it is hard to express that with words. For that reason, I intend to make no further comment on this thread or others like it. As you were
Bye X
Going somewhere? Good."No no no. I'm going nowhere. I'm here for the duration. Without me and one or two others this site would turn into a left wing love in. Come on get real without people like me you would all be bored shitless just agreeing with each other. I'm here to keep you on your toes | |||
"Has anyone else seen the real picture of the young boy washed up on the beach? From what I've read the published photograph was staged. The child was found in a small cove but his body was moved and positioned for a greater propaganda impact. Tragic that a dead child is used in such a way. There does seem to be a disproportionate number of fighting aged males in the group's of refugees which is a cause for great concern, especially after the threats made by ISIS. I hope we don't end up regretting our decision to help them and our compassion isn't our undoing. Another view would be that the real tragedy is that we need press photographs of dead 3 year old children to make us show compassion. " Fair comment but just a pity the father thought more about his teeth. | |||
"If Germany want them then Germany can keep them. Close the UK borders NOW" Merkel might but apart from a few train station balloon wavers the rest of the Germans are well and truly pissed off. | |||
"Has anyone else seen the real picture of the young boy washed up on the beach? From what I've read the published photograph was staged. The child was found in a small cove but his body was moved and positioned for a greater propaganda impact. Tragic that a dead child is used in such a way. There does seem to be a disproportionate number of fighting aged males in the group's of refugees which is a cause for great concern, especially after the threats made by ISIS. I hope we don't end up regretting our decision to help them and our compassion isn't our undoing. Another view would be that the real tragedy is that we need press photographs of dead 3 year old children to make us show compassion. Fair comment but just a pity the father thought more about his teeth." You mean instead o the 11 members of his family that has already been murdered in Kobane? Far better f the child to stay there where he had not seen a doctor or dentist I his entire life because he was born in a war. Can you not just accept the 4,000,000 have fled in terror from a particularly brutal and savage war. They were icky to have even survived because until recently the Turks would not accept any refugees from Kurdish Syria. | |||
"Has anyone else seen the real picture of the young boy washed up on the beach? From what I've read the published photograph was staged. The child was found in a small cove but his body was moved and positioned for a greater propaganda impact. Tragic that a dead child is used in such a way. There does seem to be a disproportionate number of fighting aged males in the group's of refugees which is a cause for great concern, especially after the threats made by ISIS. I hope we don't end up regretting our decision to help them and our compassion isn't our undoing. Another view would be that the real tragedy is that we need press photographs of dead 3 year old children to make us show compassion. Fair comment but just a pity the father thought more about his teeth. You mean instead o the 11 members of his family that has already been murdered in Kobane? Far better f the child to stay there where he had not seen a doctor or dentist I his entire life because he was born in a war. Can you not just accept the 4,000,000 have fled in terror from a particularly brutal and savage war. They were icky to have even survived because until recently the Turks would not accept any refugees from Kurdish Syria." I wouldn't dispute that 4 million have fled. I would (and have on other threads) argue that the EU including Britain should offer help in finding homes for displaced people, but not like this. While Turkey may not be the most friendly country as far as refugees are concerned it is a member of NATO an EU applicant country and is deemed safe. Apart from the occasional skirmish around its eastern borders there is no war in Turkey. Refugees are a problem for the Turks and they cannot be expected to shoulder the burden alone. Other country's both from the EU and outside should be helping them to relocate some of the refugees that are stuck there and elsewhere, but allowing them to jump on boats then tramp across Europe to get to the country THEY want is very wrong. Ideally all refugees in Turkey should be processed there then given passage to the EU or elsewhere without having to jump on rubber dinghy's. However in the current situation it has to be dealt with as it is. So all refugees should be processed in the first EU country they arrive in then shared out across the whole of the EU. Some will get lucky and end up in Germany, Sweden, or Britain. Others may not be so lucky and and be sent to a country that they don't want to go to. But if safety is their main concern they should be happy with any of the 28 EU country's. Any that try to cross an internal border independently without the correct documents should lose their refugee status, no if's no but's. At the moment most of the chaos is being caused by migrants (notice that in this context I no longer call them refugees) refusing to register in Greece, Hungary, Austria or anywhere else other than THEIR country of choice. Even this morning Denmark has had to close its border with Germany because of the influx all trying to get to Sweden but refusing to register in Denmark. I'm sorry but once they refuse to register in a safe country they are no longer refugees, they are economic migrants and should be treated as such. The whole situation is a sad sorry mess and we could all point fingers at Blair, Bush, Cameron and others but that should be for the future. Now it needs resolving and it is time the EU stepped up and if nothing else justified its (nonsensical) Nobel Peace Prize. Sadly after listening to Juncker yesterday I don't see it happening any time soon. | |||
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"Has anyone else seen the real picture of the young boy washed up on the beach? From what I've read the published photograph was staged. The child was found in a small cove but his body was moved and positioned for a greater propaganda impact. Tragic that a dead child is used in such a way. There does seem to be a disproportionate number of fighting aged males in the group's of refugees which is a cause for great concern, especially after the threats made by ISIS. I hope we don't end up regretting our decision to help them and our compassion isn't our undoing. Another view would be that the real tragedy is that we need press photographs of dead 3 year old children to make us show compassion. Fair comment but just a pity the father thought more about his teeth. You mean instead o the 11 members of his family that has already been murdered in Kobane? Far better f the child to stay there where he had not seen a doctor or dentist I his entire life because he was born in a war. Can you not just accept the 4,000,000 have fled in terror from a particularly brutal and savage war. They were icky to have even survived because until recently the Turks would not accept any refugees from Kurdish Syria." Or perhaps it means that dead 3 year olds and their families deserve compassion only if their parents have perfect teeth? | |||
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"Has anyone else seen the real picture of the young boy washed up on the beach? From what I've read the published photograph was staged. The child was found in a small cove but his body was moved and positioned for a greater propaganda impact. Tragic that a dead child is used in such a way. There does seem to be a disproportionate number of fighting aged males in the group's of refugees which is a cause for great concern, especially after the threats made by ISIS. I hope we don't end up regretting our decision to help them and our compassion isn't our undoing. Another view would be that the real tragedy is that we need press photographs of dead 3 year old children to make us show compassion. Fair comment but just a pity the father thought more about his teeth. You mean instead o the 11 members of his family that has already been murdered in Kobane? Far better f the child to stay there where he had not seen a doctor or dentist I his entire life because he was born in a war. Can you not just accept the 4,000,000 have fled in terror from a particularly brutal and savage war. They were icky to have even survived because until recently the Turks would not accept any refugees from Kurdish Syria. Or perhaps it means that dead 3 year olds and their families deserve compassion only if their parents have perfect teeth?" Or claim refuge in the first SAFE country they land in. | |||
"It's very harrowing watching these horrific scenes. Babies being washed up on beaches and people being caged up. But..... If you look at these pictures a very high percentage seem to be very fit males. Very few women and children. We of course should make sure everyone is treated the same but do you recall ISIS promising to flood Europe with their soldiers? I am not saying they all are but do you think a percentage of them are and what will be the consequences for Europe? Tough one eh?" Thing is they aren't refugees, they are when they make it to turkey and they can claim asylum and be safe there but they don't want to because they've heard stories of all the stuff they'll get in Europe so off they set at this point they're simply economic migrants they aren't fleeing danger anymore they're chasing a better life. | |||
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"Has anyone else seen the real picture of the young boy washed up on the beach? From what I've read the published photograph was staged. The child was found in a small cove but his body was moved and positioned for a greater propaganda impact. Tragic that a dead child is used in such a way. There does seem to be a disproportionate number of fighting aged males in the group's of refugees which is a cause for great concern, especially after the threats made by ISIS. I hope we don't end up regretting our decision to help them and our compassion isn't our undoing. Another view would be that the real tragedy is that we need press photographs of dead 3 year old children to make us show compassion. Fair comment but just a pity the father thought more about his teeth. You mean instead o the 11 members of his family that has already been murdered in Kobane? Far better f the child to stay there where he had not seen a doctor or dentist I his entire life because he was born in a war. Can you not just accept the 4,000,000 have fled in terror from a particularly brutal and savage war. They were icky to have even survived because until recently the Turks would not accept any refugees from Kurdish Syria. Or perhaps it means that dead 3 year olds and their families deserve compassion only if their parents have perfect teeth? Or claim refuge in the first SAFE country they land in." Apart from that being totally irrelevant to the lack of compassion, it's wrong. If you actually took the trouble to look up the conventions and laws that are relevant you'd find that family connections and/or previous residence take priority over the first country they arrive at. But it's much easier for people to repeat again and again something that's wrong so they can switch off any sense of humanity.even the third rule about who handles an asylum claim takes account of the individual situation - if someone is locked in the back of a lorry by a people smuggler then they can claim asylum where they are able to get out irrespective of how many national borders they cross. In the case of the father you're going on about, he wanted to go to Canada where there were family connections. Remember the aunt you were going on about? that's a family connection. It takes precedence over any consideration of which country they landed in. Similarly, the concept of a safe country has nothing at all to do with where the refugee arrives, it's used when a country determines that a refugee should go somewhere else. A safe country is one that the refugee has a link with (in international law just having landed there first doesn't count as a link) and can be safely sent to without the risk of being passed from pillar to post by national governments. The UK has a list of safe countries in the immigration and asylum administration act 2002 and that's added to administratively. It doesn't for example include Turkey. Also, your redefinition of a refugee who crosses a national border so that you can call them economic migrants is complete bull. It's your opinion but in law and in humanity rather than inhumanity its ridiculous. It may be lawless and we may not like it but it's up to the authorities to enforce the law. Hopefully they can treat people like people rather than some sort of inconvenience to be discarded arbitrarily, though having seen the behaviour of Macedonian police on TV beating people with batons makes me doubt that.. | |||
"Has anyone else seen the real picture of the young boy washed up on the beach? From what I've read the published photograph was staged. The child was found in a small cove but his body was moved and positioned for a greater propaganda impact. Tragic that a dead child is used in such a way. There does seem to be a disproportionate number of fighting aged males in the group's of refugees which is a cause for great concern, especially after the threats made by ISIS. I hope we don't end up regretting our decision to help them and our compassion isn't our undoing. Another view would be that the real tragedy is that we need press photographs of dead 3 year old children to make us show compassion. Fair comment but just a pity the father thought more about his teeth. You mean instead o the 11 members of his family that has already been murdered in Kobane? Far better f the child to stay there where he had not seen a doctor or dentist I his entire life because he was born in a war. Can you not just accept the 4,000,000 have fled in terror from a particularly brutal and savage war. They were icky to have even survived because until recently the Turks would not accept any refugees from Kurdish Syria. Or perhaps it means that dead 3 year olds and their families deserve compassion only if their parents have perfect teeth? Or claim refuge in the first SAFE country they land in. Apart from that being totally irrelevant to the lack of compassion, it's wrong. If you actually took the trouble to look up the conventions and laws that are relevant you'd find that family connections and/or previous residence take priority over the first country they arrive at. But it's much easier for people to repeat again and again something that's wrong so they can switch off any sense of humanity.even the third rule about who handles an asylum claim takes account of the individual situation - if someone is locked in the back of a lorry by a people smuggler then they can claim asylum where they are able to get out irrespective of how many national borders they cross. In the case of the father you're going on about, he wanted to go to Canada where there were family connections. Remember the aunt you were going on about? that's a family connection. It takes precedence over any consideration of which country they landed in. Similarly, the concept of a safe country has nothing at all to do with where the refugee arrives, it's used when a country determines that a refugee should go somewhere else. A safe country is one that the refugee has a link with (in international law just having landed there first doesn't count as a link) and can be safely sent to without the risk of being passed from pillar to post by national governments. The UK has a list of safe countries in the immigration and asylum administration act 2002 and that's added to administratively. It doesn't for example include Turkey. Also, your redefinition of a refugee who crosses a national border so that you can call them economic migrants is complete bull. It's your opinion but in law and in humanity rather than inhumanity its ridiculous. It may be lawless and we may not like it but it's up to the authorities to enforce the law. Hopefully they can treat people like people rather than some sort of inconvenience to be discarded arbitrarily, though having seen the behaviour of Macedonian police on TV beating people with batons makes me doubt that.. " So you're instantly willing to believe the footage on the news about the Macedonian police, but you continually rubbish anyone's comments who make the observation that the news footage continuously shows a disproportionately high number of single men? You seem to be picking and choosing what you want to see rather than what is actually being shown on the footage. | |||
"Has anyone else seen the real picture of the young boy washed up on the beach? From what I've read the published photograph was staged. The child was found in a small cove but his body was moved and positioned for a greater propaganda impact. Tragic that a dead child is used in such a way. There does seem to be a disproportionate number of fighting aged males in the group's of refugees which is a cause for great concern, especially after the threats made by ISIS. I hope we don't end up regretting our decision to help them and our compassion isn't our undoing. Another view would be that the real tragedy is that we need press photographs of dead 3 year old children to make us show compassion. Fair comment but just a pity the father thought more about his teeth. You mean instead o the 11 members of his family that has already been murdered in Kobane? Far better f the child to stay there where he had not seen a doctor or dentist I his entire life because he was born in a war. Can you not just accept the 4,000,000 have fled in terror from a particularly brutal and savage war. They were icky to have even survived because until recently the Turks would not accept any refugees from Kurdish Syria. Or perhaps it means that dead 3 year olds and their families deserve compassion only if their parents have perfect teeth? Or claim refuge in the first SAFE country they land in. Apart from that being totally irrelevant to the lack of compassion, it's wrong. If you actually took the trouble to look up the conventions and laws that are relevant you'd find that family connections and/or previous residence take priority over the first country they arrive at. But it's much easier for people to repeat again and again something that's wrong so they can switch off any sense of humanity.even the third rule about who handles an asylum claim takes account of the individual situation - if someone is locked in the back of a lorry by a people smuggler then they can claim asylum where they are able to get out irrespective of how many national borders they cross. In the case of the father you're going on about, he wanted to go to Canada where there were family connections. Remember the aunt you were going on about? that's a family connection. It takes precedence over any consideration of which country they landed in. Similarly, the concept of a safe country has nothing at all to do with where the refugee arrives, it's used when a country determines that a refugee should go somewhere else. A safe country is one that the refugee has a link with (in international law just having landed there first doesn't count as a link) and can be safely sent to without the risk of being passed from pillar to post by national governments. The UK has a list of safe countries in the immigration and asylum administration act 2002 and that's added to administratively. It doesn't for example include Turkey. Also, your redefinition of a refugee who crosses a national border so that you can call them economic migrants is complete bull. It's your opinion but in law and in humanity rather than inhumanity its ridiculous. It may be lawless and we may not like it but it's up to the authorities to enforce the law. Hopefully they can treat people like people rather than some sort of inconvenience to be discarded arbitrarily, though having seen the behaviour of Macedonian police on TV beating people with batons makes me doubt that.. " The Home Office deems certain countries to be places where a refugee is safe from persecution: for example all EU states, Canada, the USA, Switzerland and Norway. If an asylum seeker travels through any of these states en route to the UK, he or she may be returned there on grounds of having travelled through a safe third country. Returns to EU states are covered by the Dublin III agreements. See Dublin III. | |||
"Has anyone else seen the real picture of the young boy washed up on the beach? From what I've read the published photograph was staged. The child was found in a small cove but his body was moved and positioned for a greater propaganda impact. Tragic that a dead child is used in such a way. There does seem to be a disproportionate number of fighting aged males in the group's of refugees which is a cause for great concern, especially after the threats made by ISIS. I hope we don't end up regretting our decision to help them and our compassion isn't our undoing. Another view would be that the real tragedy is that we need press photographs of dead 3 year old children to make us show compassion. Fair comment but just a pity the father thought more about his teeth. You mean instead o the 11 members of his family that has already been murdered in Kobane? Far better f the child to stay there where he had not seen a doctor or dentist I his entire life because he was born in a war. Can you not just accept the 4,000,000 have fled in terror from a particularly brutal and savage war. They were icky to have even survived because until recently the Turks would not accept any refugees from Kurdish Syria. Or perhaps it means that dead 3 year olds and their families deserve compassion only if their parents have perfect teeth? Or claim refuge in the first SAFE country they land in. Apart from that being totally irrelevant to the lack of compassion, it's wrong. If you actually took the trouble to look up the conventions and laws that are relevant you'd find that family connections and/or previous residence take priority over the first country they arrive at. But it's much easier for people to repeat again and again something that's wrong so they can switch off any sense of humanity.even the third rule about who handles an asylum claim takes account of the individual situation - if someone is locked in the back of a lorry by a people smuggler then they can claim asylum where they are able to get out irrespective of how many national borders they cross. In the case of the father you're going on about, he wanted to go to Canada where there were family connections. Remember the aunt you were going on about? that's a family connection. It takes precedence over any consideration of which country they landed in. Similarly, the concept of a safe country has nothing at all to do with where the refugee arrives, it's used when a country determines that a refugee should go somewhere else. A safe country is one that the refugee has a link with (in international law just having landed there first doesn't count as a link) and can be safely sent to without the risk of being passed from pillar to post by national governments. The UK has a list of safe countries in the immigration and asylum administration act 2002 and that's added to administratively. It doesn't for example include Turkey. Also, your redefinition of a refugee who crosses a national border so that you can call them economic migrants is complete bull. It's your opinion but in law and in humanity rather than inhumanity its ridiculous. It may be lawless and we may not like it but it's up to the authorities to enforce the law. Hopefully they can treat people like people rather than some sort of inconvenience to be discarded arbitrarily, though having seen the behaviour of Macedonian police on TV beating people with batons makes me doubt that.. " So all the Syrians (and others) tramping through Europe have got family connections in Britain/Germany/Sweden? I'd love to see the Stat. for that one. As for the Macedonian police. Some may say a bit heavy handed but when faced with a howling mob trying to rip down their border fences, what are they supposed to do? Hand out tea and biscuits? | |||
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"Has anyone else seen the real picture of the young boy washed up on the beach? From what I've read the published photograph was staged. The child was found in a small cove but his body was moved and positioned for a greater propaganda impact. Tragic that a dead child is used in such a way. There does seem to be a disproportionate number of fighting aged males in the group's of refugees which is a cause for great concern, especially after the threats made by ISIS. I hope we don't end up regretting our decision to help them and our compassion isn't our undoing. Another view would be that the real tragedy is that we need press photographs of dead 3 year old children to make us show compassion. Fair comment but just a pity the father thought more about his teeth. You mean instead o the 11 members of his family that has already been murdered in Kobane? Far better f the child to stay there where he had not seen a doctor or dentist I his entire life because he was born in a war. Can you not just accept the 4,000,000 have fled in terror from a particularly brutal and savage war. They were icky to have even survived because until recently the Turks would not accept any refugees from Kurdish Syria. Or perhaps it means that dead 3 year olds and their families deserve compassion only if their parents have perfect teeth? Or claim refuge in the first SAFE country they land in. Apart from that being totally irrelevant to the lack of compassion, it's wrong. If you actually took the trouble to look up the conventions and laws that are relevant you'd find that family connections and/or previous residence take priority over the first country they arrive at. But it's much easier for people to repeat again and again something that's wrong so they can switch off any sense of humanity.even the third rule about who handles an asylum claim takes account of the individual situation - if someone is locked in the back of a lorry by a people smuggler then they can claim asylum where they are able to get out irrespective of how many national borders they cross. In the case of the father you're going on about, he wanted to go to Canada where there were family connections. Remember the aunt you were going on about? that's a family connection. It takes precedence over any consideration of which country they landed in. Similarly, the concept of a safe country has nothing at all to do with where the refugee arrives, it's used when a country determines that a refugee should go somewhere else. A safe country is one that the refugee has a link with (in international law just having landed there first doesn't count as a link) and can be safely sent to without the risk of being passed from pillar to post by national governments. The UK has a list of safe countries in the immigration and asylum administration act 2002 and that's added to administratively. It doesn't for example include Turkey. Also, your redefinition of a refugee who crosses a national border so that you can call them economic migrants is complete bull. It's your opinion but in law and in humanity rather than inhumanity its ridiculous. It may be lawless and we may not like it but it's up to the authorities to enforce the law. Hopefully they can treat people like people rather than some sort of inconvenience to be discarded arbitrarily, though having seen the behaviour of Macedonian police on TV beating people with batons makes me doubt that.. So all the Syrians (and others) tramping through Europe have got family connections in Britain/Germany/Sweden? I'd love to see the Stat. for that one. As for the Macedonian police. Some may say a bit heavy handed but when faced with a howling mob trying to rip down their border fences, what are they supposed to do? Hand out tea and biscuits?" I'm just the same as you in that I know absolutely nothing about the family connections or otherwise of Syrians attempting to seek asylum in Europe. I want them to be treated like human beings and according to international law not the perversion of it that works in your mind. It's difficult to rip down a border fence where one doesn't exist, isn't it? The truth is bad enough without you making things up. Not that that will stop you. | |||
"Has anyone else seen the real picture of the young boy washed up on the beach? From what I've read the published photograph was staged. The child was found in a small cove but his body was moved and positioned for a greater propaganda impact. Tragic that a dead child is used in such a way. There does seem to be a disproportionate number of fighting aged males in the group's of refugees which is a cause for great concern, especially after the threats made by ISIS. I hope we don't end up regretting our decision to help them and our compassion isn't our undoing. Another view would be that the real tragedy is that we need press photographs of dead 3 year old children to make us show compassion. Fair comment but just a pity the father thought more about his teeth. You mean instead o the 11 members of his family that has already been murdered in Kobane? Far better f the child to stay there where he had not seen a doctor or dentist I his entire life because he was born in a war. Can you not just accept the 4,000,000 have fled in terror from a particularly brutal and savage war. They were icky to have even survived because until recently the Turks would not accept any refugees from Kurdish Syria. Or perhaps it means that dead 3 year olds and their families deserve compassion only if their parents have perfect teeth? Or claim refuge in the first SAFE country they land in. Apart from that being totally irrelevant to the lack of compassion, it's wrong. If you actually took the trouble to look up the conventions and laws that are relevant you'd find that family connections and/or previous residence take priority over the first country they arrive at. But it's much easier for people to repeat again and again something that's wrong so they can switch off any sense of humanity.even the third rule about who handles an asylum claim takes account of the individual situation - if someone is locked in the back of a lorry by a people smuggler then they can claim asylum where they are able to get out irrespective of how many national borders they cross. In the case of the father you're going on about, he wanted to go to Canada where there were family connections. Remember the aunt you were going on about? that's a family connection. It takes precedence over any consideration of which country they landed in. Similarly, the concept of a safe country has nothing at all to do with where the refugee arrives, it's used when a country determines that a refugee should go somewhere else. A safe country is one that the refugee has a link with (in international law just having landed there first doesn't count as a link) and can be safely sent to without the risk of being passed from pillar to post by national governments. The UK has a list of safe countries in the immigration and asylum administration act 2002 and that's added to administratively. It doesn't for example include Turkey. Also, your redefinition of a refugee who crosses a national border so that you can call them economic migrants is complete bull. It's your opinion but in law and in humanity rather than inhumanity its ridiculous. It may be lawless and we may not like it but it's up to the authorities to enforce the law. Hopefully they can treat people like people rather than some sort of inconvenience to be discarded arbitrarily, though having seen the behaviour of Macedonian police on TV beating people with batons makes me doubt that.. So you're instantly willing to believe the footage on the news about the Macedonian police, but you continually rubbish anyone's comments who make the observation that the news footage continuously shows a disproportionately high number of single men? You seem to be picking and choosing what you want to see rather than what is actually being shown on the footage." I see where you are coming from. Only you and people who agree with you are allowed to pick and choose what they want to see. The rest of us have to follow you without thinking for ourselves. Dream on. Read the threads. There are plenty of explanations that have been given for why there are more single males. As you never believe anything I write I won't waste energy on you but you can always go and ask other people who have already answered that for you. | |||
"Has anyone else seen the real picture of the young boy washed up on the beach? From what I've read the published photograph was staged. The child was found in a small cove but his body was moved and positioned for a greater propaganda impact. Tragic that a dead child is used in such a way. There does seem to be a disproportionate number of fighting aged males in the group's of refugees which is a cause for great concern, especially after the threats made by ISIS. I hope we don't end up regretting our decision to help them and our compassion isn't our undoing. Another view would be that the real tragedy is that we need press photographs of dead 3 year old children to make us show compassion. Fair comment but just a pity the father thought more about his teeth. You mean instead o the 11 members of his family that has already been murdered in Kobane? Far better f the child to stay there where he had not seen a doctor or dentist I his entire life because he was born in a war. Can you not just accept the 4,000,000 have fled in terror from a particularly brutal and savage war. They were icky to have even survived because until recently the Turks would not accept any refugees from Kurdish Syria. Or perhaps it means that dead 3 year olds and their families deserve compassion only if their parents have perfect teeth? Or claim refuge in the first SAFE country they land in. Apart from that being totally irrelevant to the lack of compassion, it's wrong. If you actually took the trouble to look up the conventions and laws that are relevant you'd find that family connections and/or previous residence take priority over the first country they arrive at. But it's much easier for people to repeat again and again something that's wrong so they can switch off any sense of humanity.even the third rule about who handles an asylum claim takes account of the individual situation - if someone is locked in the back of a lorry by a people smuggler then they can claim asylum where they are able to get out irrespective of how many national borders they cross. In the case of the father you're going on about, he wanted to go to Canada where there were family connections. Remember the aunt you were going on about? that's a family connection. It takes precedence over any consideration of which country they landed in. Similarly, the concept of a safe country has nothing at all to do with where the refugee arrives, it's used when a country determines that a refugee should go somewhere else. A safe country is one that the refugee has a link with (in international law just having landed there first doesn't count as a link) and can be safely sent to without the risk of being passed from pillar to post by national governments. The UK has a list of safe countries in the immigration and asylum administration act 2002 and that's added to administratively. It doesn't for example include Turkey. Also, your redefinition of a refugee who crosses a national border so that you can call them economic migrants is complete bull. It's your opinion but in law and in humanity rather than inhumanity its ridiculous. It may be lawless and we may not like it but it's up to the authorities to enforce the law. Hopefully they can treat people like people rather than some sort of inconvenience to be discarded arbitrarily, though having seen the behaviour of Macedonian police on TV beating people with batons makes me doubt that.. So all the Syrians (and others) tramping through Europe have got family connections in Britain/Germany/Sweden? I'd love to see the Stat. for that one. As for the Macedonian police. Some may say a bit heavy handed but when faced with a howling mob trying to rip down their border fences, what are they supposed to do? Hand out tea and biscuits? I'm just the same as you in that I know absolutely nothing about the family connections or otherwise of Syrians attempting to seek asylum in Europe. I want them to be treated like human beings and according to international law not the perversion of it that works in your mind. It's difficult to rip down a border fence where one doesn't exist, isn't it? The truth is bad enough without you making things up. Not that that will stop you. " On that we will agree. The truth is more than bad enough and the last thing we need is people making things up. Things like the columns marching through Europe are an equal number of men women and children. Things like all of them are fleeing a war zone. Things like they are only looking for safety. Not forgetting making assumptions that they will all have family ties in the wealthy northern European country's. No we shouldn't make things up. | |||
"Has anyone else seen the real picture of the young boy washed up on the beach? From what I've read the published photograph was staged. The child was found in a small cove but his body was moved and positioned for a greater propaganda impact. Tragic that a dead child is used in such a way. There does seem to be a disproportionate number of fighting aged males in the group's of refugees which is a cause for great concern, especially after the threats made by ISIS. I hope we don't end up regretting our decision to help them and our compassion isn't our undoing. Another view would be that the real tragedy is that we need press photographs of dead 3 year old children to make us show compassion. Fair comment but just a pity the father thought more about his teeth. You mean instead o the 11 members of his family that has already been murdered in Kobane? Far better f the child to stay there where he had not seen a doctor or dentist I his entire life because he was born in a war. Can you not just accept the 4,000,000 have fled in terror from a particularly brutal and savage war. They were icky to have even survived because until recently the Turks would not accept any refugees from Kurdish Syria. Or perhaps it means that dead 3 year olds and their families deserve compassion only if their parents have perfect teeth? Or claim refuge in the first SAFE country they land in. Apart from that being totally irrelevant to the lack of compassion, it's wrong. If you actually took the trouble to look up the conventions and laws that are relevant you'd find that family connections and/or previous residence take priority over the first country they arrive at. But it's much easier for people to repeat again and again something that's wrong so they can switch off any sense of humanity.even the third rule about who handles an asylum claim takes account of the individual situation - if someone is locked in the back of a lorry by a people smuggler then they can claim asylum where they are able to get out irrespective of how many national borders they cross. In the case of the father you're going on about, he wanted to go to Canada where there were family connections. Remember the aunt you were going on about? that's a family connection. It takes precedence over any consideration of which country they landed in. Similarly, the concept of a safe country has nothing at all to do with where the refugee arrives, it's used when a country determines that a refugee should go somewhere else. A safe country is one that the refugee has a link with (in international law just having landed there first doesn't count as a link) and can be safely sent to without the risk of being passed from pillar to post by national governments. The UK has a list of safe countries in the immigration and asylum administration act 2002 and that's added to administratively. It doesn't for example include Turkey. Also, your redefinition of a refugee who crosses a national border so that you can call them economic migrants is complete bull. It's your opinion but in law and in humanity rather than inhumanity its ridiculous. It may be lawless and we may not like it but it's up to the authorities to enforce the law. Hopefully they can treat people like people rather than some sort of inconvenience to be discarded arbitrarily, though having seen the behaviour of Macedonian police on TV beating people with batons makes me doubt that.. So all the Syrians (and others) tramping through Europe have got family connections in Britain/Germany/Sweden? I'd love to see the Stat. for that one. As for the Macedonian police. Some may say a bit heavy handed but when faced with a howling mob trying to rip down their border fences, what are they supposed to do? Hand out tea and biscuits? I'm just the same as you in that I know absolutely nothing about the family connections or otherwise of Syrians attempting to seek asylum in Europe. I want them to be treated like human beings and according to international law not the perversion of it that works in your mind. It's difficult to rip down a border fence where one doesn't exist, isn't it? The truth is bad enough without you making things up. Not that that will stop you. On that we will agree. The truth is more than bad enough and the last thing we need is people making things up. Things like the columns marching through Europe are an equal number of men women and children. Things like all of them are fleeing a war zone. Things like they are only looking for safety. Not forgetting making assumptions that they will all have family ties in the wealthy northern European country's. No we shouldn't make things up." I know of no one who claims that there are equal numbers of men women and children in the refugees trying to cross Europe. People have tried to explain to you and I really can't be bothered with you trying to make this a pissing contest. I know of no one who claims that all refugees have family or previous residency ties elsewhere in Europe. You can twist my words anyway you like but basically you couldn't be bothered to read the immigration rules before engaging. It won't change the fact that you are wrong. Refugees are entitled to be treated lawfully and like human beings. Not fleeing a war zone you say? On a day when we hear about Isis using mustard gas on people I'll just leave you to bury your head in shame. Looking for more than safety? No shit Sherlock. Isn't that what you look for out of life? I certainly do. | |||
" I know of no one who claims that there are equal numbers of men women and children in the refugees trying to cross Europe. People have tried to explain to you and I really can't be bothered with you trying to make this a pissing contest. I know of no one who claims that all refugees have family or previous residency ties elsewhere in Europe. You can twist my words anyway you like but basically you couldn't be bothered to read the immigration rules before engaging. It won't change the fact that you are wrong. Refugees are entitled to be treated lawfully and like human beings. Not fleeing a war zone you say? On a day when we hear about Isis using mustard gas on people I'll just leave you to bury your head in shame. Looking for more than safety? No shit Sherlock. Isn't that what you look for out of life? I certainly do. " Point one. You tried to by using the UNHCR figures. Point two. You quoted the rules chapter and verse to (at best) insinuate that. Point three. Turkey is not a war zone. In fact thousands of Brits go to the exact resort they are using as a departure point for their holidays. Point four. If they are looking for more than safety they are economic migrants. Not refugees. | |||
" I know of no one who claims that there are equal numbers of men women and children in the refugees trying to cross Europe. People have tried to explain to you and I really can't be bothered with you trying to make this a pissing contest. I know of no one who claims that all refugees have family or previous residency ties elsewhere in Europe. You can twist my words anyway you like but basically you couldn't be bothered to read the immigration rules before engaging. It won't change the fact that you are wrong. Refugees are entitled to be treated lawfully and like human beings. Not fleeing a war zone you say? On a day when we hear about Isis using mustard gas on people I'll just leave you to bury your head in shame. Looking for more than safety? No shit Sherlock. Isn't that what you look for out of life? I certainly do. Point one. You tried to by using the UNHCR figures. Point two. You quoted the rules chapter and verse to (at best) insinuate that. Point three. Turkey is not a war zone. In fact thousands of Brits go to the exact resort they are using as a departure point for their holidays. Point four. If they are looking for more than safety they are economic migrants. Not refugees." Point 1- I didn't try to use the UNHCR figures, I did use them. I used them to rebut your disgusting little made up story about men leaving their women and children behind in Syria for beheading/raping etc. You then tried to twist that to apply to people transiting Europe. Point 2- I summarised some of the rules for you - to quote them would take tens of pages - because you were clearly unaware of them and had made no effort whatsover to consider them. Point two is that the refugees should be treated according to the law as humans, not your made up version of it. Point 3 - Syria is the war zone that they are fleeing from. There are camps in Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan and Libya. You can go on holiday to as many of those countries as you like, it doesn't change the fact that they are fleeing from the war zone in Syria. You don't like that they choose to run further than makes you feel comfortable, but that doesn't change where they are fleeing from. Point 3 is that they are fleeing from the war zone in Syria, where the choices are stark. Do they choose there own government to drop barrel bombs on them or ISIS to use mustard gas on them? Shame on you. Point 4 - that's your opinion as an economic migrant into Europe and you're welcome to it. If Germany or Spain became embroiled in wars, you'd be on the first flight out and it wouldn't be to a camp in Lebanon or Turkey or Libya, would it? You'd still be a refugee wherever you went and you'd be a complete arse to willingly accept being worse off and not to want to do something about it. | |||
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" Point 3 - Syria is the war zone that they are fleeing from. There are camps in Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan and Libya. You can go on holiday to as many of those countries as you like, it doesn't change the fact that they are fleeing from the war zone in Syria. You don't like that they choose to run further than makes you feel comfortable, but that doesn't change where they are fleeing from. Point 3 is that they are fleeing from the war zone in Syria, where the choices are stark. Do they choose there own government to drop barrel bombs on them or ISIS to use mustard gas on them? Shame on you. " Yeah right. And the 10,000 fake Syrian passports seized in Bulgaria? http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/fluechtlinge-der-handel-mit-syrischen-paessen-blueht/12290592.html Right click and select "translate to English" | |||
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"Not sure of the provenance on this one but disturbing nonetheless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=33&v=xn-UCR5p0y0" To be fair I've checked this one out and it seems that this was a container heading to Libya. However it still raises a lot of questions. Who sent it? Why was it in Greece? And most disturbingly if this container can even exist on European soil. What is to stop another one turning up in Britain or Germany or anywhere else? | |||
" Point 3 - Syria is the war zone that they are fleeing from. There are camps in Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan and Libya. You can go on holiday to as many of those countries as you like, it doesn't change the fact that they are fleeing from the war zone in Syria. You don't like that they choose to run further than makes you feel comfortable, but that doesn't change where they are fleeing from. Point 3 is that they are fleeing from the war zone in Syria, where the choices are stark. Do they choose there own government to drop barrel bombs on them or ISIS to use mustard gas on them? Shame on you. Yeah right. And the 10,000 fake Syrian passports seized in Bulgaria? http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/fluechtlinge-der-handel-mit-syrischen-paessen-blueht/12290592.html Right click and select "translate to English"" Fake passports? What on earth has that got to do with Syria being a war zone? Are you saying that the Syrian government are dropping fake passports on their people now instead of barrel bombs? Ah no, you're laying down a smoke screen to hide from the shameful nonsense story you put nearer the top of this thread about Syrian men deserting the families in Syria,as you claimed leaving them to be raped, beheaded etc. That was a lie, complete trash and cheap propaganda wasn't it? Shame on you - but I'm sure you can show compassion, can't you? | |||
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"Saw the news earlier and media must be picking up on the whole "where are the women and children" as the camera view had more women with children and men with children. My local council got a slating yesterday for advertising for people to foster young asylum seekers. What these people haven't seen is the advertising they have done for years to get more foster carers in to foster UK born children and to me that's what hits a nerve when there are all these people saying "il take in a Syrian family" but yet not once thought about taking in a UK born child, after all these children surely have a right to live without fear and the right to a decent life??? These children might not be fleeing a warn torn country but are surely fleeing someone unsafe for the courts to put them in care!!" That's what I dislike about a lot of the current fever. It took a picture of a photogenic dead 3 year old before most people decided they gave a shit, despite media reports regarding women and children drowning at sea for most of this year. And why just Syria? There are, and always have been, camps all over the world bursting at the seams where people are living in terrible conditions.
It's now become the done thing and anyone who dares question that view is just evil. | |||
" Point 3 - Syria is the war zone that they are fleeing from. There are camps in Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan and Libya. You can go on holiday to as many of those countries as you like, it doesn't change the fact that they are fleeing from the war zone in Syria. You don't like that they choose to run further than makes you feel comfortable, but that doesn't change where they are fleeing from. Point 3 is that they are fleeing from the war zone in Syria, where the choices are stark. Do they choose there own government to drop barrel bombs on them or ISIS to use mustard gas on them? Shame on you. Yeah right. And the 10,000 fake Syrian passports seized in Bulgaria? http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/fluechtlinge-der-handel-mit-syrischen-paessen-blueht/12290592.html Right click and select "translate to English" Fake passports? What on earth has that got to do with Syria being a war zone? Are you saying that the Syrian government are dropping fake passports on their people now instead of barrel bombs? Ah no, you're laying down a smoke screen to hide from the shameful nonsense story you put nearer the top of this thread about Syrian men deserting the families in Syria,as you claimed leaving them to be raped, beheaded etc. That was a lie, complete trash and cheap propaganda wasn't it? Shame on you - but I'm sure you can show compassion, can't you?" For genuine Syrians applying through the proper channels I have some compassion. For genuine Syrians fleeing Syria I have some compassion. For Syrians kicking Europe's back door in and hopping from one safe country to another not a bloody ounce of it and as for fake Syrians on fake passports I would send them straight back to where they came from and feel not a bloody smidgin of shame. Go wrap yourself in your comfort blanket of cyber compassion in Pets Wood (wherever that may be) and spare a thought for the people of Munich who have just had 60,000 migrants foisted on them in the last 2 weeks alone. | |||
"Fake passports on sale in Bulgaria? Sherlock, you've been overdoing it. Where is the surprise that criminals will try to prey on vulnerable people? Let's put you in this place. Someone drops a bomb on your house or your neighbour's house or a house in the same neighbourhood and you are running for your life. You know that feeling you often have: "Oh did I lock the front door?", well I'd bet my expired UK passport you are just going to ignore that -even the moment of doubt in your mind that says "Oh I've forgotten my passport, perhaps I'll ask that nice chap with an AK47 if he can help me". I think you'll park that nicely behind the thoughts about not having switched off the gas cooker. Or let's imagine that being a well organised refugee, because you would be, you remembered your passport, (driving licence, house insurance, medical card, medication), and your money and you paid a people smuggler to take you to freedom. But then he decided he'd rather dump you by the road side and steal your money and passport - after all its worth a few grand on the blackmarket. Or perhaps you never had a passport. Or you had one that expired. Are you not allowed to flee from danger? So blow me down with a feather - there's a huge market for travel documents and surprise surprise criminals are stealing them and making forgeries to sell to refugees AND people who want to pretend to be refugees. If we (our governments) were organised to deal with this crisis, then we would put the crooks out of business by being able to provide legitimate documentation where it's needed. " Perhaps this, perhaps that, and if the bloody other. Guess what? If your auntie had bollocks she would be your uncle. The people of Munich are not thinking perhaps and if. They are thinking WTF do we do now? | |||
"Fake passports on sale in Bulgaria? Sherlock, you've been overdoing it. Where is the surprise that criminals will try to prey on vulnerable people? Let's put you in this place. Someone drops a bomb on your house or your neighbour's house or a house in the same neighbourhood and you are running for your life. You know that feeling you often have: "Oh did I lock the front door?", well I'd bet my expired UK passport you are just going to ignore that -even the moment of doubt in your mind that says "Oh I've forgotten my passport, perhaps I'll ask that nice chap with an AK47 if he can help me". I think you'll park that nicely behind the thoughts about not having switched off the gas cooker. Or let's imagine that being a well organised refugee, because you would be, you remembered your passport, (driving licence, house insurance, medical card, medication), and your money and you paid a people smuggler to take you to freedom. But then he decided he'd rather dump you by the road side and steal your money and passport - after all its worth a few grand on the blackmarket. Or perhaps you never had a passport. Or you had one that expired. Are you not allowed to flee from danger? So blow me down with a feather - there's a huge market for travel documents and surprise surprise criminals are stealing them and making forgeries to sell to refugees AND people who want to pretend to be refugees. If we (our governments) were organised to deal with this crisis, then we would put the crooks out of business by being able to provide legitimate documentation where it's needed. Perhaps this, perhaps that, and if the bloody other. Guess what? If your auntie had bollocks she would be your uncle. The people of Munich are not thinking perhaps and if. They are thinking WTF do we do now?" Perhaps indeed to follow your line of thought as you 'kept us on our toes' - a classic line of propaganda for us to snort spreading fear uncertainty and doubt so that we become addicted to inhumanity. Perhaps they are all ISIS terrorists or perhaps just a few. Perhaps they'll smuggle in an ISIS terrorist, perhaps 500000. Perhaps they are refugees, perhaps they are economic migrants. Perhaps they are proper book learned refugees who know where to stop out of your sight and out of mind so you don't need to worry about them or perhaps they are inconsiderately being real human beings. Perhaps they'll have no travel documents, perhaps they'll have a forged passport Perhaps they'll be Syrian or perhaps they'll be some other nationality Perhaps they are young men alone or perhaps they bring their wives and families, either way they are in the wrong. Perhaps they left their wives and children behind in Syria to be raped and beheaded or perhaps that was a lie created for propaganda purposes. Perhaps the people of Munich are thinking what the fuck to do. They should be. The national governments of Europe should be. This isn't a surprise. "Oh where the fuck did they come from moment". This has been building up for years. Perhaps it'd help you to stop acting as if Europe is a victim of this crisis. The victims are the people who have been displaced inside Syria and outside into refugee camps abroad. Or perhaps it takes real bollocks to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem. Ask your Aunty. | |||
" Point 3 - Syria is the war zone that they are fleeing from. There are camps in Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan and Libya. You can go on holiday to as many of those countries as you like, it doesn't change the fact that they are fleeing from the war zone in Syria. You don't like that they choose to run further than makes you feel comfortable, but that doesn't change where they are fleeing from. Point 3 is that they are fleeing from the war zone in Syria, where the choices are stark. Do they choose there own government to drop barrel bombs on them or ISIS to use mustard gas on them? Shame on you. Yeah right. And the 10,000 fake Syrian passports seized in Bulgaria? http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/fluechtlinge-der-handel-mit-syrischen-paessen-blueht/12290592.html Right click and select "translate to English" Fake passports? What on earth has that got to do with Syria being a war zone? Are you saying that the Syrian government are dropping fake passports on their people now instead of barrel bombs? Ah no, you're laying down a smoke screen to hide from the shameful nonsense story you put nearer the top of this thread about Syrian men deserting the families in Syria,as you claimed leaving them to be raped, beheaded etc. That was a lie, complete trash and cheap propaganda wasn't it? Shame on you - but I'm sure you can show compassion, can't you? For genuine Syrians applying through the proper channels I have some compassion. For genuine Syrians fleeing Syria I have some compassion. For Syrians kicking Europe's back door in and hopping from one safe country to another not a bloody ounce of it and as for fake Syrians on fake passports I would send them straight back to where they came from and feel not a bloody smidgin of shame. Go wrap yourself in your comfort blanket of cyber compassion in Pets Wood (wherever that may be) and spare a thought for the people of Munich who have just had 60,000 migrants foisted on them in the last 2 weeks alone." You could always nip out to your place in Spain and bury your head in the sand there if you want to avoid both Munich and feeling the victim all the time. | |||
"Fake passports on sale in Bulgaria? Sherlock, you've been overdoing it. Where is the surprise that criminals will try to prey on vulnerable people? Let's put you in this place. Someone drops a bomb on your house or your neighbour's house or a house in the same neighbourhood and you are running for your life. You know that feeling you often have: "Oh did I lock the front door?", well I'd bet my expired UK passport you are just going to ignore that -even the moment of doubt in your mind that says "Oh I've forgotten my passport, perhaps I'll ask that nice chap with an AK47 if he can help me". I think you'll park that nicely behind the thoughts about not having switched off the gas cooker. Or let's imagine that being a well organised refugee, because you would be, you remembered your passport, (driving licence, house insurance, medical card, medication), and your money and you paid a people smuggler to take you to freedom. But then he decided he'd rather dump you by the road side and steal your money and passport - after all its worth a few grand on the blackmarket. Or perhaps you never had a passport. Or you had one that expired. Are you not allowed to flee from danger? So blow me down with a feather - there's a huge market for travel documents and surprise surprise criminals are stealing them and making forgeries to sell to refugees AND people who want to pretend to be refugees. If we (our governments) were organised to deal with this crisis, then we would put the crooks out of business by being able to provide legitimate documentation where it's needed. Perhaps this, perhaps that, and if the bloody other. Guess what? If your auntie had bollocks she would be your uncle. The people of Munich are not thinking perhaps and if. They are thinking WTF do we do now? Perhaps indeed to follow your line of thought as you 'kept us on our toes' - a classic line of propaganda for us to snort spreading fear uncertainty and doubt so that we become addicted to inhumanity. Perhaps they are all ISIS terrorists or perhaps just a few. Perhaps they'll smuggle in an ISIS terrorist, perhaps 500000. Perhaps they are refugees, perhaps they are economic migrants. Perhaps they are proper book learned refugees who know where to stop out of your sight and out of mind so you don't need to worry about them or perhaps they are inconsiderately being real human beings. Perhaps they'll have no travel documents, perhaps they'll have a forged passport Perhaps they'll be Syrian or perhaps they'll be some other nationality Perhaps they are young men alone or perhaps they bring their wives and families, either way they are in the wrong. Perhaps they left their wives and children behind in Syria to be raped and beheaded or perhaps that was a lie created for propaganda purposes. Perhaps the people of Munich are thinking what the fuck to do. They should be. The national governments of Europe should be. This isn't a surprise. "Oh where the fuck did they come from moment". This has been building up for years. Perhaps it'd help you to stop acting as if Europe is a victim of this crisis. The victims are the people who have been displaced inside Syria and outside into refugee camps abroad. Or perhaps it takes real bollocks to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem. Ask your Aunty." Perhaps indeed to follow your line of thought as you 'kept us on our toes' - a classic line of propaganda for us to snort spreading fear uncertainty and doubt so that we become addicted to inhumanity. As always any differing view to the simpering sentimental liberal view of the world is propaganda LOL. Goebbels would be proud of that one. Perhaps they are all ISIS terrorists or perhaps just a few. Nope never used perhaps and never said all. Some are, how many? Who knows but no if and no perhaps. Perhaps they'll smuggle in an ISIS terrorist, perhaps 500000. No perhaps. They have. Perhaps they are refugees, perhaps they are economic migrants. Some are one, some are the other. Plain statement, no perhaps. Perhaps they are proper book learned refugees who know where to stop out of your sight and out of mind so you don't need to worry about them or perhaps they are inconsiderately being real human beings. That is just piffle and bears no resemblance to anything I have posted. Perhaps they'll have no travel documents, perhaps they'll have a forged passport No perhaps. Many have false Syrian passports. There have been arrests in Germany already, and which criminal mastermind prints 10,000 of the bloody things if no-one wants them? Not rocket science eh Sherlock. Perhaps they'll be Syrian or perhaps they'll be some other nationality. Many are Syrian, and many are not. Perhaps they are young men alone or perhaps they bring their wives and families, either way they are in the wrong. That isn't what I have said and you know it. I have always stated that by far the majority are young single men but because I questioned the motives of one family (that story gets stranger and stranger by the day BTW) to you I am against all families. What did my old school teacher always say? Oh yes, necessity is the mother of invention. Perhaps they left their wives and children behind in Syria to be raped and beheaded or perhaps that was a lie created for propaganda purposes. OK I'll give you a perhaps on that one. Perhaps the people of Munich are thinking what the fuck to do. They should be. The national governments of Europe should be. This isn't a surprise. "Oh where the fuck did they come from moment". This has been building up for years. No contest on that one. Perhaps it'd help you to stop acting as if Europe is a victim of this crisis. The victims are the people who have been displaced inside Syria and outside into refugee camps abroad. Let's see how many of the people of Europe become victims. Only time will tell. | |||
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"Fake passports on sale in Bulgaria? Sherlock, you've been overdoing it. Where is the surprise that criminals will try to prey on vulnerable people? Let's put you in this place. Someone drops a bomb on your house or your neighbour's house or a house in the same neighbourhood and you are running for your life. You know that feeling you often have: "Oh did I lock the front door?", well I'd bet my expired UK passport you are just going to ignore that -even the moment of doubt in your mind that says "Oh I've forgotten my passport, perhaps I'll ask that nice chap with an AK47 if he can help me". I think you'll park that nicely behind the thoughts about not having switched off the gas cooker. Or let's imagine that being a well organised refugee, because you would be, you remembered your passport, (driving licence, house insurance, medical card, medication), and your money and you paid a people smuggler to take you to freedom. But then he decided he'd rather dump you by the road side and steal your money and passport - after all its worth a few grand on the blackmarket. Or perhaps you never had a passport. Or you had one that expired. Are you not allowed to flee from danger? So blow me down with a feather - there's a huge market for travel documents and surprise surprise criminals are stealing them and making forgeries to sell to refugees AND people who want to pretend to be refugees. If we (our governments) were organised to deal with this crisis, then we would put the crooks out of business by being able to provide legitimate documentation where it's needed. Perhaps this, perhaps that, and if the bloody other. Guess what? If your auntie had bollocks she would be your uncle. The people of Munich are not thinking perhaps and if. They are thinking WTF do we do now? Perhaps indeed to follow your line of thought as you 'kept us on our toes' - a classic line of propaganda for us to snort spreading fear uncertainty and doubt so that we become addicted to inhumanity. Perhaps they are all ISIS terrorists or perhaps just a few. Perhaps they'll smuggle in an ISIS terrorist, perhaps 500000. Perhaps they are refugees, perhaps they are economic migrants. Perhaps they are proper book learned refugees who know where to stop out of your sight and out of mind so you don't need to worry about them or perhaps they are inconsiderately being real human beings. Perhaps they'll have no travel documents, perhaps they'll have a forged passport Perhaps they'll be Syrian or perhaps they'll be some other nationality Perhaps they are young men alone or perhaps they bring their wives and families, either way they are in the wrong. Perhaps they left their wives and children behind in Syria to be raped and beheaded or perhaps that was a lie created for propaganda purposes. Perhaps the people of Munich are thinking what the fuck to do. They should be. The national governments of Europe should be. This isn't a surprise. "Oh where the fuck did they come from moment". This has been building up for years. Perhaps it'd help you to stop acting as if Europe is a victim of this crisis. The victims are the people who have been displaced inside Syria and outside into refugee camps abroad. Or perhaps it takes real bollocks to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem. Ask your Aunty. Perhaps indeed to follow your line of thought as you 'kept us on our toes' - a classic line of propaganda for us to snort spreading fear uncertainty and doubt so that we become addicted to inhumanity. As always any differing view to the simpering sentimental liberal view of the world is propaganda LOL. Goebbels would be proud of that one. Perhaps they are all ISIS terrorists or perhaps just a few. Nope never used perhaps and never said all. Some are, how many? Who knows but no if and no perhaps. Perhaps they'll smuggle in an ISIS terrorist, perhaps 500000. No perhaps. They have. Perhaps they are refugees, perhaps they are economic migrants. Some are one, some are the other. Plain statement, no perhaps. Perhaps they are proper book learned refugees who know where to stop out of your sight and out of mind so you don't need to worry about them or perhaps they are inconsiderately being real human beings. That is just piffle and bears no resemblance to anything I have posted. Perhaps they'll have no travel documents, perhaps they'll have a forged passport No perhaps. Many have false Syrian passports. There have been arrests in Germany already, and which criminal mastermind prints 10,000 of the bloody things if no-one wants them? Not rocket science eh Sherlock. Perhaps they'll be Syrian or perhaps they'll be some other nationality. Many are Syrian, and many are not. Perhaps they are young men alone or perhaps they bring their wives and families, either way they are in the wrong. That isn't what I have said and you know it. I have always stated that by far the majority are young single men but because I questioned the motives of one family (that story gets stranger and stranger by the day BTW) to you I am against all families. What did my old school teacher always say? Oh yes, necessity is the mother of invention. Perhaps they left their wives and children behind in Syria to be raped and beheaded or perhaps that was a lie created for propaganda purposes. OK I'll give you a perhaps on that one. Perhaps the people of Munich are thinking what the fuck to do. They should be. The national governments of Europe should be. This isn't a surprise. "Oh where the fuck did they come from moment". This has been building up for years. No contest on that one. Perhaps it'd help you to stop acting as if Europe is a victim of this crisis. The victims are the people who have been displaced inside Syria and outside into refugee camps abroad. Let's see how many of the people of Europe become victims. Only time will tell. " Necessity is the mother of invention you say? What necessity made you invent this nasty little story: "I think it goes something like this. (translated from Arabic) "Listen love, I've got a good idea. Let me take our life savings and I'll go to Britain/Germany/Sweden and they will give me a house/flat and lots of money. In the meantime you keep your head down and your Burka on and don't let the kids play with guns (not yet anyway) When I've got myself sorted among the infidels I'll tell them it's my human right for my family to come and join me. If you haven't been beheaded/crucified/gang raped/chucked off high building by that time I will send for you and the kids and we will all live happily ever after" After a few weeks on the road he turns up in Britain/Germany/Sweden Joins FAB or local equivalent and forgets all about wife and kids . Cynical? Maybe. But I'll bet there are a few families stuck in Syria who would know that or a very similar story." Cynical? Too right. Or perhaps it wasn't you and someone hacked your account. | |||
"Fake passports on sale in Bulgaria? Sherlock, you've been overdoing it. Where is the surprise that criminals will try to prey on vulnerable people? Let's put you in this place. Someone drops a bomb on your house or your neighbour's house or a house in the same neighbourhood and you are running for your life. You know that feeling you often have: "Oh did I lock the front door?", well I'd bet my expired UK passport you are just going to ignore that -even the moment of doubt in your mind that says "Oh I've forgotten my passport, perhaps I'll ask that nice chap with an AK47 if he can help me". I think you'll park that nicely behind the thoughts about not having switched off the gas cooker. Or let's imagine that being a well organised refugee, because you would be, you remembered your passport, (driving licence, house insurance, medical card, medication), and your money and you paid a people smuggler to take you to freedom. But then he decided he'd rather dump you by the road side and steal your money and passport - after all its worth a few grand on the blackmarket. Or perhaps you never had a passport. Or you had one that expired. Are you not allowed to flee from danger? So blow me down with a feather - there's a huge market for travel documents and surprise surprise criminals are stealing them and making forgeries to sell to refugees AND people who want to pretend to be refugees. If we (our governments) were organised to deal with this crisis, then we would put the crooks out of business by being able to provide legitimate documentation where it's needed. Perhaps this, perhaps that, and if the bloody other. Guess what? If your auntie had bollocks she would be your uncle. The people of Munich are not thinking perhaps and if. They are thinking WTF do we do now? Perhaps indeed to follow your line of thought as you 'kept us on our toes' - a classic line of propaganda for us to snort spreading fear uncertainty and doubt so that we become addicted to inhumanity. Perhaps they are all ISIS terrorists or perhaps just a few. Perhaps they'll smuggle in an ISIS terrorist, perhaps 500000. Perhaps they are refugees, perhaps they are economic migrants. Perhaps they are proper book learned refugees who know where to stop out of your sight and out of mind so you don't need to worry about them or perhaps they are inconsiderately being real human beings. Perhaps they'll have no travel documents, perhaps they'll have a forged passport Perhaps they'll be Syrian or perhaps they'll be some other nationality Perhaps they are young men alone or perhaps they bring their wives and families, either way they are in the wrong. Perhaps they left their wives and children behind in Syria to be raped and beheaded or perhaps that was a lie created for propaganda purposes. Perhaps the people of Munich are thinking what the fuck to do. They should be. The national governments of Europe should be. This isn't a surprise. "Oh where the fuck did they come from moment". This has been building up for years. Perhaps it'd help you to stop acting as if Europe is a victim of this crisis. The victims are the people who have been displaced inside Syria and outside into refugee camps abroad. Or perhaps it takes real bollocks to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem. Ask your Aunty. Perhaps indeed to follow your line of thought as you 'kept us on our toes' - a classic line of propaganda for us to snort spreading fear uncertainty and doubt so that we become addicted to inhumanity. As always any differing view to the simpering sentimental liberal view of the world is propaganda LOL. Goebbels would be proud of that one. Perhaps they are all ISIS terrorists or perhaps just a few. Nope never used perhaps and never said all. Some are, how many? Who knows but no if and no perhaps. Perhaps they'll smuggle in an ISIS terrorist, perhaps 500000. No perhaps. They have. Perhaps they are refugees, perhaps they are economic migrants. Some are one, some are the other. Plain statement, no perhaps. Perhaps they are proper book learned refugees who know where to stop out of your sight and out of mind so you don't need to worry about them or perhaps they are inconsiderately being real human beings. That is just piffle and bears no resemblance to anything I have posted. Perhaps they'll have no travel documents, perhaps they'll have a forged passport No perhaps. Many have false Syrian passports. There have been arrests in Germany already, and which criminal mastermind prints 10,000 of the bloody things if no-one wants them? Not rocket science eh Sherlock. Perhaps they'll be Syrian or perhaps they'll be some other nationality. Many are Syrian, and many are not. Perhaps they are young men alone or perhaps they bring their wives and families, either way they are in the wrong. That isn't what I have said and you know it. I have always stated that by far the majority are young single men but because I questioned the motives of one family (that story gets stranger and stranger by the day BTW) to you I am against all families. What did my old school teacher always say? Oh yes, necessity is the mother of invention. Perhaps they left their wives and children behind in Syria to be raped and beheaded or perhaps that was a lie created for propaganda purposes. OK I'll give you a perhaps on that one. Perhaps the people of Munich are thinking what the fuck to do. They should be. The national governments of Europe should be. This isn't a surprise. "Oh where the fuck did they come from moment". This has been building up for years. No contest on that one. Perhaps it'd help you to stop acting as if Europe is a victim of this crisis. The victims are the people who have been displaced inside Syria and outside into refugee camps abroad. Let's see how many of the people of Europe become victims. Only time will tell. Necessity is the mother of invention you say? What necessity made you invent this nasty little story: "I think it goes something like this. (translated from Arabic) "Listen love, I've got a good idea. Let me take our life savings and I'll go to Britain/Germany/Sweden and they will give me a house/flat and lots of money. In the meantime you keep your head down and your Burka on and don't let the kids play with guns (not yet anyway) When I've got myself sorted among the infidels I'll tell them it's my human right for my family to come and join me. If you haven't been beheaded/crucified/gang raped/chucked off high building by that time I will send for you and the kids and we will all live happily ever after" After a few weeks on the road he turns up in Britain/Germany/Sweden Joins FAB or local equivalent and forgets all about wife and kids . Cynical? Maybe. But I'll bet there are a few families stuck in Syria who would know that or a very similar story." Cynical? Too right. Or perhaps it wasn't you and someone hacked your account." No-one hacked me I WROTE IT and certainly do not and never will apologise to you or anyone else for it For clarity I will repeat the most important bit. Cynical? Maybe. But I'll bet there are a few families stuck in Syria who would know that or a very similar story." And I will stand by it. | |||
"Fake passports on sale in Bulgaria? Sherlock, you've been overdoing it. Where is the surprise that criminals will try to prey on vulnerable people? Let's put you in this place. Someone drops a bomb on your house or your neighbour's house or a house in the same neighbourhood and you are running for your life. You know that feeling you often have: "Oh did I lock the front door?", well I'd bet my expired UK passport you are just going to ignore that -even the moment of doubt in your mind that says "Oh I've forgotten my passport, perhaps I'll ask that nice chap with an AK47 if he can help me". I think you'll park that nicely behind the thoughts about not having switched off the gas cooker. Or let's imagine that being a well organised refugee, because you would be, you remembered your passport, (driving licence, house insurance, medical card, medication), and your money and you paid a people smuggler to take you to freedom. But then he decided he'd rather dump you by the road side and steal your money and passport - after all its worth a few grand on the blackmarket. Or perhaps you never had a passport. Or you had one that expired. Are you not allowed to flee from danger? So blow me down with a feather - there's a huge market for travel documents and surprise surprise criminals are stealing them and making forgeries to sell to refugees AND people who want to pretend to be refugees. If we (our governments) were organised to deal with this crisis, then we would put the crooks out of business by being able to provide legitimate documentation where it's needed. Perhaps this, perhaps that, and if the bloody other. Guess what? If your auntie had bollocks she would be your uncle. The people of Munich are not thinking perhaps and if. They are thinking WTF do we do now? Perhaps indeed to follow your line of thought as you 'kept us on our toes' - a classic line of propaganda for us to snort spreading fear uncertainty and doubt so that we become addicted to inhumanity. Perhaps they are all ISIS terrorists or perhaps just a few. Perhaps they'll smuggle in an ISIS terrorist, perhaps 500000. Perhaps they are refugees, perhaps they are economic migrants. Perhaps they are proper book learned refugees who know where to stop out of your sight and out of mind so you don't need to worry about them or perhaps they are inconsiderately being real human beings. Perhaps they'll have no travel documents, perhaps they'll have a forged passport Perhaps they'll be Syrian or perhaps they'll be some other nationality Perhaps they are young men alone or perhaps they bring their wives and families, either way they are in the wrong. Perhaps they left their wives and children behind in Syria to be raped and beheaded or perhaps that was a lie created for propaganda purposes. Perhaps the people of Munich are thinking what the fuck to do. They should be. The national governments of Europe should be. This isn't a surprise. "Oh where the fuck did they come from moment". This has been building up for years. Perhaps it'd help you to stop acting as if Europe is a victim of this crisis. The victims are the people who have been displaced inside Syria and outside into refugee camps abroad. Or perhaps it takes real bollocks to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem. Ask your Aunty. Perhaps indeed to follow your line of thought as you 'kept us on our toes' - a classic line of propaganda for us to snort spreading fear uncertainty and doubt so that we become addicted to inhumanity. As always any differing view to the simpering sentimental liberal view of the world is propaganda LOL. Goebbels would be proud of that one. Perhaps they are all ISIS terrorists or perhaps just a few. Nope never used perhaps and never said all. Some are, how many? Who knows but no if and no perhaps. Perhaps they'll smuggle in an ISIS terrorist, perhaps 500000. No perhaps. They have. Perhaps they are refugees, perhaps they are economic migrants. Some are one, some are the other. Plain statement, no perhaps. Perhaps they are proper book learned refugees who know where to stop out of your sight and out of mind so you don't need to worry about them or perhaps they are inconsiderately being real human beings. That is just piffle and bears no resemblance to anything I have posted. Perhaps they'll have no travel documents, perhaps they'll have a forged passport No perhaps. Many have false Syrian passports. There have been arrests in Germany already, and which criminal mastermind prints 10,000 of the bloody things if no-one wants them? Not rocket science eh Sherlock. Perhaps they'll be Syrian or perhaps they'll be some other nationality. Many are Syrian, and many are not. Perhaps they are young men alone or perhaps they bring their wives and families, either way they are in the wrong. That isn't what I have said and you know it. I have always stated that by far the majority are young single men but because I questioned the motives of one family (that story gets stranger and stranger by the day BTW) to you I am against all families. What did my old school teacher always say? Oh yes, necessity is the mother of invention. Perhaps they left their wives and children behind in Syria to be raped and beheaded or perhaps that was a lie created for propaganda purposes. OK I'll give you a perhaps on that one. Perhaps the people of Munich are thinking what the fuck to do. They should be. The national governments of Europe should be. This isn't a surprise. "Oh where the fuck did they come from moment". This has been building up for years. No contest on that one. Perhaps it'd help you to stop acting as if Europe is a victim of this crisis. The victims are the people who have been displaced inside Syria and outside into refugee camps abroad. Let's see how many of the people of Europe become victims. Only time will tell. Necessity is the mother of invention you say? What necessity made you invent this nasty little story: "I think it goes something like this. (translated from Arabic) "Listen love, I've got a good idea. Let me take our life savings and I'll go to Britain/Germany/Sweden and they will give me a house/flat and lots of money. In the meantime you keep your head down and your Burka on and don't let the kids play with guns (not yet anyway) When I've got myself sorted among the infidels I'll tell them it's my human right for my family to come and join me. If you haven't been beheaded/crucified/gang raped/chucked off high building by that time I will send for you and the kids and we will all live happily ever after" After a few weeks on the road he turns up in Britain/Germany/Sweden Joins FAB or local equivalent and forgets all about wife and kids . Cynical? Maybe. But I'll bet there are a few families stuck in Syria who would know that or a very similar story." Cynical? Too right. Or perhaps it wasn't you and someone hacked your account. No-one hacked me I WROTE IT and certainly do not and never will apologise to you or anyone else for it For clarity I will repeat the most important bit. Cynical? Maybe. But I'll bet there are a few families stuck in Syria who would know that or a very similar story." And I will stand by it. " As you say, Goebbels would be proud of that one. Keep telling with pride your stories of the Syrian men who leave their wives to join FAB. Goebbels will dream fondly in his grave of coming up with such a huge racial slander on 4 million refugees. I'll stand by my simpering sentimental liberal view, huddled in my comfort blanket waiting for someone to really upset me by calling me a do gooder or a Guardian reader. | |||
"Fake passports on sale in Bulgaria? Sherlock, you've been overdoing it. Where is the surprise that criminals will try to prey on vulnerable people? Let's put you in this place. Someone drops a bomb on your house or your neighbour's house or a house in the same neighbourhood and you are running for your life. You know that feeling you often have: "Oh did I lock the front door?", well I'd bet my expired UK passport you are just going to ignore that -even the moment of doubt in your mind that says "Oh I've forgotten my passport, perhaps I'll ask that nice chap with an AK47 if he can help me". I think you'll park that nicely behind the thoughts about not having switched off the gas cooker. Or let's imagine that being a well organised refugee, because you would be, you remembered your passport, (driving licence, house insurance, medical card, medication), and your money and you paid a people smuggler to take you to freedom. But then he decided he'd rather dump you by the road side and steal your money and passport - after all its worth a few grand on the blackmarket. Or perhaps you never had a passport. Or you had one that expired. Are you not allowed to flee from danger? So blow me down with a feather - there's a huge market for travel documents and surprise surprise criminals are stealing them and making forgeries to sell to refugees AND people who want to pretend to be refugees. If we (our governments) were organised to deal with this crisis, then we would put the crooks out of business by being able to provide legitimate documentation where it's needed. Perhaps this, perhaps that, and if the bloody other. Guess what? If your auntie had bollocks she would be your uncle. The people of Munich are not thinking perhaps and if. They are thinking WTF do we do now? Perhaps indeed to follow your line of thought as you 'kept us on our toes' - a classic line of propaganda for us to snort spreading fear uncertainty and doubt so that we become addicted to inhumanity. Perhaps they are all ISIS terrorists or perhaps just a few. Perhaps they'll smuggle in an ISIS terrorist, perhaps 500000. Perhaps they are refugees, perhaps they are economic migrants. Perhaps they are proper book learned refugees who know where to stop out of your sight and out of mind so you don't need to worry about them or perhaps they are inconsiderately being real human beings. Perhaps they'll have no travel documents, perhaps they'll have a forged passport Perhaps they'll be Syrian or perhaps they'll be some other nationality Perhaps they are young men alone or perhaps they bring their wives and families, either way they are in the wrong. Perhaps they left their wives and children behind in Syria to be raped and beheaded or perhaps that was a lie created for propaganda purposes. Perhaps the people of Munich are thinking what the fuck to do. They should be. The national governments of Europe should be. This isn't a surprise. "Oh where the fuck did they come from moment". This has been building up for years. Perhaps it'd help you to stop acting as if Europe is a victim of this crisis. The victims are the people who have been displaced inside Syria and outside into refugee camps abroad. Or perhaps it takes real bollocks to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem. Ask your Aunty. Perhaps indeed to follow your line of thought as you 'kept us on our toes' - a classic line of propaganda for us to snort spreading fear uncertainty and doubt so that we become addicted to inhumanity. As always any differing view to the simpering sentimental liberal view of the world is propaganda LOL. Goebbels would be proud of that one. Perhaps they are all ISIS terrorists or perhaps just a few. Nope never used perhaps and never said all. Some are, how many? Who knows but no if and no perhaps. Perhaps they'll smuggle in an ISIS terrorist, perhaps 500000. No perhaps. They have. Perhaps they are refugees, perhaps they are economic migrants. Some are one, some are the other. Plain statement, no perhaps. Perhaps they are proper book learned refugees who know where to stop out of your sight and out of mind so you don't need to worry about them or perhaps they are inconsiderately being real human beings. That is just piffle and bears no resemblance to anything I have posted. Perhaps they'll have no travel documents, perhaps they'll have a forged passport No perhaps. Many have false Syrian passports. There have been arrests in Germany already, and which criminal mastermind prints 10,000 of the bloody things if no-one wants them? Not rocket science eh Sherlock. Perhaps they'll be Syrian or perhaps they'll be some other nationality. Many are Syrian, and many are not. Perhaps they are young men alone or perhaps they bring their wives and families, either way they are in the wrong. That isn't what I have said and you know it. I have always stated that by far the majority are young single men but because I questioned the motives of one family (that story gets stranger and stranger by the day BTW) to you I am against all families. What did my old school teacher always say? Oh yes, necessity is the mother of invention. Perhaps they left their wives and children behind in Syria to be raped and beheaded or perhaps that was a lie created for propaganda purposes. OK I'll give you a perhaps on that one. Perhaps the people of Munich are thinking what the fuck to do. They should be. The national governments of Europe should be. This isn't a surprise. "Oh where the fuck did they come from moment". This has been building up for years. No contest on that one. Perhaps it'd help you to stop acting as if Europe is a victim of this crisis. The victims are the people who have been displaced inside Syria and outside into refugee camps abroad. Let's see how many of the people of Europe become victims. Only time will tell. Necessity is the mother of invention you say? What necessity made you invent this nasty little story: "I think it goes something like this. (translated from Arabic) "Listen love, I've got a good idea. Let me take our life savings and I'll go to Britain/Germany/Sweden and they will give me a house/flat and lots of money. In the meantime you keep your head down and your Burka on and don't let the kids play with guns (not yet anyway) When I've got myself sorted among the infidels I'll tell them it's my human right for my family to come and join me. If you haven't been beheaded/crucified/gang raped/chucked off high building by that time I will send for you and the kids and we will all live happily ever after" After a few weeks on the road he turns up in Britain/Germany/Sweden Joins FAB or local equivalent and forgets all about wife and kids . Cynical? Maybe. But I'll bet there are a few families stuck in Syria who would know that or a very similar story." Cynical? Too right. Or perhaps it wasn't you and someone hacked your account. No-one hacked me I WROTE IT and certainly do not and never will apologise to you or anyone else for it For clarity I will repeat the most important bit. Cynical? Maybe. But I'll bet there are a few families stuck in Syria who would know that or a very similar story." And I will stand by it. As you say, Goebbels would be proud of that one. Keep telling with pride your stories of the Syrian men who leave their wives to join FAB. Goebbels will dream fondly in his grave of coming up with such a huge racial slander on 4 million refugees. I'll stand by my simpering sentimental liberal view, huddled in my comfort blanket waiting for someone to really upset me by calling me a do gooder or a Guardian reader. " I think that is where we should leave it. You think what you want think and I will do likewise. I will never change you and you will never change me. Let's let history judge who is right and wrong. Perhaps it would be a good idea to reignite this in a couple of years time. | |||
" I think that is where we should leave it. You think what you want think and I will do likewise. I will never change you and you will never change me. Let's let history judge who is right and wrong. Perhaps it would be a good idea to reignite this in a couple of years time." In the middle of this type of discussion it's not easy to concede points and there were some huge areas where I agree with you and there are real concerns and fears for all of us. I can't be bothered less if you come back to say "I told you so" when you find that there are bank robbers, murderers, rapists, muggers and beggars amongst 4 million Syrians or crooks exploiting them in no end of ways. Similarly there will be fanatics of one sort or the other. There will be terrorist acts in the future and they may be caused by some of these people. Somehow we'll survive that and overcome it. There have been people who predicted disaster for the world at the hands of foreigners before. They thrived on that sense of fear and hate which I hope we as grown up people of the 21st Century can overcome. As, allegedly, a simpering left winger I'll sign off with a warning speech from a famous politician. It was made in 1943 and I apologise in advance to those who will be offended by it - and that could be many: ===================================== Behind the oncoming Syrian mass hordes we see the ISIS liquidation commandos, and behind them terror, the specter of mass starvation and complete anarchy. Islam is the devilish ferment of decomposition that finds cynical satisfaction in plunging the world into the deepest chaos and destroying ancient cultures that it played no role in building. We also know our historic responsibility. Two thousand years of Western civilization are in danger. One cannot overestimate the danger. It is indicative that when one names it as it is, Islam throughout the world protests loudly. Things have gone so far in Europe that one cannot call a danger a danger when it is caused by the Syrians. That does not stop us from drawing the necessary conclusions. That is what we did in our earlier domestic battles. The democratic muslim friendly readers of the “Guardian” and the “Independent” served radical Islam by minimizing and downplaying a growing danger, and by lulling our threatened people to sleep and reducing their ability to resist. We could see, if the danger were not overcome, the specter of hunger, misery, and forced labor by millions of our people. We could see our venerable part of the world collapse, and bury in its ruins the ancient inheritance of the West. That is the danger we face today. ======================================= Those, my friend, are the words of Josef Goebbels since you want to bandy him around with a few simple changes when Soviet becomes Syrian; Jewish becomes ISIS; jewry becomes islam. It's all about building up fear of the foreigner. He was wrong morally, factually and in his predictions for the future. I would never equate your morals with his, you come across as a reasonable-ish person, but there's as much danger in this world from the hard right as from the simpering left. And they'll sneak in any time they can under cover of the crowd too. | |||
