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Advice please ?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Hi, theres a few smart people on the forum and occasionally some good advice is given. So I apologise in advance for my boring thread, but it could possibly be quite helpful for me.
So 6 weeks ago I buy a van from a showroom, it's 2 and half years old with 20.000 miles on the clock, looks pristine condition.
I paid £7000 for it, and it was still under manufacturers warranty for another 6 months.
5 hours after the van was delivered after making full payment, I wasn't happy with a noise and I called the guy I bought it off and he sent it back to the manufacturer to have a look at. The manufacturer told me it was a common problem and would fix it. They give me a courtesy van and 6 weeks later I get my van back.
Now this is the problem....
The work done on the van cost about £1500 but I wasn't bothered as it was on the warranty. Today the manufacturer calls me saying the vans history doesn't add up and the millage is wrong, turns out the van has done 80.000 miles and has been clocked back 60.000!
So the warranty doesn't stand and the van has done 60.000 miles more than what I was told when buying it!
The guy I bought the van off booked the van into the manufacturer under my name so I'm liable to pay the £1500 to the manufacturer. Plus iv got a van that's done loads of millage!
What a piss take!
So I called my local police station and they tell me it's not a iillegal offence to clock a vehicle, I thought that was quite surprising. So now I'm thinking citizens advice or trading standards or something????
What would you do?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Citizens advice and trading standards as you say. What an awful thing to happen."
Yeah I'm pretty pissed off!
I feel like driving the van through his showroom window and giving his keys back and demanding my money
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"Citizens advice and trading standards as you say. What an awful thing to happen."
If you go on the government web page look at old mots you can see the mileage using the V5
The problem is proving the garage knew it was clocked.
I would also speak to the garage and see what they can do.
It is an offence to sell the car van knowing the mileage had been changed to make a profit. |
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"Citizens advice and trading standards as you say. What an awful thing to happen.
Yeah I'm pretty pissed off!
I feel like driving the van through his showroom window and giving his keys back and demanding my money
"
If the person is a legitimate dealer then trading standards will enjoy a word in his ear . You will find clocking is not illegal.. however misinformation is .goods not as described
Then you will find you have your statutory rights and a minimum standard of warranty which you would also fall into
New ts introduced take a very dim they of such activity |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"[Removed by poster at 08/09/15 17:46:16]"
Well this is it, I called him up and he says it wasn't him and he was guaranteed the millage when bought the van himself.
Surely im covered by sale of goods act??? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Google the show room, see if anybody has put anything on there . Go to the show room tell them your talking to trading standards see if they won't sort something out your happy with.
They might as a legal battle is expensive . ..
If not fuck em over and don't hold back |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Citizens advice and trading standards as you say. What an awful thing to happen.
Yeah I'm pretty pissed off!
I feel like driving the van through his showroom window and giving his keys back and demanding my money
If the person is a legitimate dealer then trading standards will enjoy a word in his ear . You will find clocking is not illegal.. however misinformation is .goods not as described
Then you will find you have your statutory rights and a minimum standard of warranty which you would also fall into
New ts introduced take a very dim they of such activity "
So it's likely I will get my money back after lots of faffing around!?
Then I need to go through the long process of buying another van elsewhere!
I want compensating for all the agg and money iv lost, the courtesy van didn't have a roof rack and iv lost work the past 6 weeks while they try and get a part sent from France! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Google the show room, see if anybody has put anything on there . Go to the show room tell them your talking to trading standards see if they won't sort something out your happy with.
They might as a legal battle is expensive . ..
If not fuck em over and don't hold back "
How do you suggest I fuck em over?
Like going to local newspapers and stuff? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"You should be covered by the Sale of Goods Act 1979.
I would phone Trading standards tomorrow as they will log it and give you advice what to do next  "
Yeah that's what I plan to do, but wasn't sure if I should take the value of the van back from him or if trading standards would get him to pay a bit extra as compensation?
Like I explained earlier I have lost a fair bit of money in the last 6 weeks not having a roof rack for ladders and materials |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"You should be covered by the Sale of Goods Act 1979.
I would phone Trading standards tomorrow as they will log it and give you advice what to do next
Yeah that's what I plan to do, but wasn't sure if I should take the value of the van back from him or if trading standards would get him to pay a bit extra as compensation?
Like I explained earlier I have lost a fair bit of money in the last 6 weeks not having a roof rack for ladders and materials"
You'll be covered under the act. You can reject the van as being not as described and not fit for purpose - we did the same with a car last year that we bought that had been given a new mot but when we had it checked a day later it was classed as a fail and subsequently as borderline dangerous by a Vosa inspector.
Contact Trading Standards, tell them the situation - then call the dealer and ask for a full refund. Once they know TS are involved they may well pay up straight away. You'll most likely have to go to court for compensation though so maybe better off taking the money and cutting your losses.
Good luck.
A |
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"Citizens advice and trading standards as you say. What an awful thing to happen."
Straight to Trading Standards. My team at work prosecuted loads of cases like this.
The garage may well be innocent but doubtful!! |
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"You should be covered by the Sale of Goods Act 1979.
I would phone Trading standards tomorrow as they will log it and give you advice what to do next
Yeah that's what I plan to do, but wasn't sure if I should take the value of the van back from him or if trading standards would get him to pay a bit extra as compensation?
Like I explained earlier I have lost a fair bit of money in the last 6 weeks not having a roof rack for ladders and materials
You'll be covered under the act. You can reject the van as being not as described and not fit for purpose - we did the same with a car last year that we bought that had been given a new mot but when we had it checked a day later it was classed as a fail and subsequently as borderline dangerous by a Vosa inspector.
Contact Trading Standards, tell them the situation - then call the dealer and ask for a full refund. Once they know TS are involved they may well pay up straight away. You'll most likely have to go to court for compensation though so maybe better off taking the money and cutting your losses.
Good luck.
A"
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"You should be covered by the Sale of Goods Act 1979.
I would phone Trading standards tomorrow as they will log it and give you advice what to do next
Yeah that's what I plan to do, but wasn't sure if I should take the value of the van back from him or if trading standards would get him to pay a bit extra as compensation?
Like I explained earlier I have lost a fair bit of money in the last 6 weeks not having a roof rack for ladders and materials"
If it is Misrepresentation on the dealers part the you can claim compensation too |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Thank you for all the above advice and messages, I will call trading standards in the morning.
I thought it was a safe bet buying from a showroom, guess it's a lesson learnt!
I have been very unlucky though!
God knows where I'm going to buy my next van!!? |
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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
"God knows where I'm going to buy my next van!!? "
Somewhere else!
A refund is the next step, from the dealer, supported by trading Standards if necessary, and I hope you get it sorted soon.
However.....
A commercial vehicle, that new, with that mileage, at that price? Wasn't there an alarm bells? What about when there were no service stamps (which must have been the case otherwise you'd have noticed the problem) ?
If the dealer can make the interior of a van with 80k on the clock look like it's only done 20, he should go into interior reconditioning full time! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"God knows where I'm going to buy my next van!!?
Somewhere else!
A refund is the next step, from the dealer, supported by trading Standards if necessary, and I hope you get it sorted soon.
However.....
A commercial vehicle, that new, with that mileage, at that price? Wasn't there an alarm bells? What about when there were no service stamps (which must have been the case otherwise you'd have noticed the problem) ?
If the dealer can make the interior of a van with 80k on the clock look like it's only done 20, he should go into interior reconditioning full time! "
I'm not sure I'm allowed to say the manufacturer name or what van it is but actually the price is pretty standard you can buy them brand new for £8500 + vat
And the van came with full service history and guaranteed millage so obviously it wasn't as simple as you make out |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If none of the above sensible advice work. Get some livery on the side of the van that says "These Fuckers sold me a clocked van" and park outside the garage. Hit them where it hurts.
Trading standards should be all over them. |
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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
"I'm not sure I'm allowed to say the manufacturer name or what van it is but actually the price is pretty standard you can buy them brand new for £8500 + vat
And the van came with full service history and guaranteed millage so obviously it wasn't as simple as you make out"
Take your point on the price, but if it had a service history, it must have been a fake one...?
The phrase "guaranteed mileage" should make the refund discussion much easier though! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"For curiosity, how did they find out it had been clocked?"
The manufacturer did the work to fix the van but after putting the number plate in system it said that the van had previous work done and the millage was recorded, that made the manufacturer dig deeper and investigate. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I'm not sure I'm allowed to say the manufacturer name or what van it is but actually the price is pretty standard you can buy them brand new for £8500 + vat
And the van came with full service history and guaranteed millage so obviously it wasn't as simple as you make out
Take your point on the price, but if it had a service history, it must have been a fake one...?
The phrase "guaranteed mileage" should make the refund discussion much easier though!"
Yeah im confident I will get my money back for van but it's still caused a lot of agg and lost money from work as self employed |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"If none of the above sensible advice work. Get some livery on the side of the van that says "These Fuckers sold me a clocked van" and park outside the garage. Hit them where it hurts.
Trading standards should be all over them. "
Yeah I won't just let them get away with it!
Like I said above I'm confident I will get the 7k back but not the lost earnings |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Whilst Sale of Goods will apply, you can also consider an action for fraudulent or negligent misrepresentation.
In so far as proof is concerned, in a Civil Court you only have to prove your case on the balance of probabilities. Clearly it will depend on the evidence available, but Id be amazed if the seller did not know more about the issue |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"For curiosity, how did they find out it had been clocked?
The manufacturer did the work to fix the van but after putting the number plate in system it said that the van had previous work done and the millage was recorded, that made the manufacturer dig deeper and investigate. "
Also the ECU will record and store the actual milage. This cannot be altered or erased. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I got stung on a car from a show room once and my car now I got from new (by trading in said car under the guise that everything was ok). So i totally feel for you |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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In so far as loss of earnings is concerned, I think you will struggle. I would think they would argue the losses are too remote or that you should have mitigated them by hiring a van in the meantime.
Unfortunately its a difficult one as if you had hired a van you would then have had an argument over recovery of the hire fees. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hi, theres a few smart people on the forum and occasionally some good advice is given. So I apologise in advance for my boring thread, but it could possibly be quite helpful for me.
So 6 weeks ago I buy a van from a showroom, it's 2 and half years old with 20.000 miles on the clock, looks pristine condition.
I paid £7000 for it, and it was still under manufacturers warranty for another 6 months.
5 hours after the van was delivered after making full payment, I wasn't happy with a noise and I called the guy I bought it off and he sent it back to the manufacturer to have a look at. The manufacturer told me it was a common problem and would fix it. They give me a courtesy van and 6 weeks later I get my van back.
Now this is the problem....
The work done on the van cost about £1500 but I wasn't bothered as it was on the warranty. Today the manufacturer calls me saying the vans history doesn't add up and the millage is wrong, turns out the van has done 80.000 miles and has been clocked back 60.000!
So the warranty doesn't stand and the van has done 60.000 miles more than what I was told when buying it!
The guy I bought the van off booked the van into the manufacturer under my name so I'm liable to pay the £1500 to the manufacturer. Plus iv got a van that's done loads of millage!
What a piss take!
So I called my local police station and they tell me it's not a iillegal offence to clock a vehicle, I thought that was quite surprising. So now I'm thinking citizens advice or trading standards or something????
What would you do?
"
wow and I thought my situation with my last two vehicles was bad that's real rotten but the phrase bought as seen is used a lot in these cases ,I thought clocking was illegal ,sorry my friend rotten luck |
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"Did u.pay on a credit card?
Hope so.. They can handle it.
Nope, savings with a bloody debit card unfortunately!!!  "
Debit card is covered the same way as a credit card. Call your bank (I think) and claim the money back |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"Did u.pay on a credit card?
Hope so.. They can handle it.
Nope, savings with a bloody debit card unfortunately!!!
Debit card is covered the same way as a credit card. Call your bank (I think) and claim the money back"
Nope.
Credit cards are covered by section 75 of the consumer credit act for purchases over £100.
Debit cards are covered against fraudulent use but don't give the same protection.
Top tip is to pay a deposit on the card - minimum of £100 - and the rest by any other means. The credit card protection is then in place for the full purchase up to £30k!
A |
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As for the manufacturer chasing the money, I'd refuse to pay on the grounds that you didn't make the booking and had nothing to do with it or them other than delivering the vehicle- ask to see your signature on a booking form or a recording of the call to arrange it.... I'm pretty sure if it was booked in under the name HM Queen, they wouldn't be expecting Lizzie to cough up- it's his booking, his transaction, his contract with the mft's, so let them chase him for the cash and fight it out between themselves. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I'm confident the show room will give mu money back so I don't think I need to worry about debit cards ect, but at least there's evidence I made the payment to him and I didn't pay cash!
The thing I am curious about though, is if the garage gives my money back instead of TS getting involved, what happens to the millage??? He will probably just resell it at 20.000 to another poor sod!
Least if I get trading standards involved they might get the van crushed or change the millage to what it's meant to be?
But would they be able to tell exactly how many miles it's actually done?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"As for the manufacturer chasing the money, I'd refuse to pay on the grounds that you didn't make the booking and had nothing to do with it or them other than delivering the vehicle- ask to see your signature on a booking form or a recording of the call to arrange it.... I'm pretty sure if it was booked in under the name HM Queen, they wouldn't be expecting Lizzie to cough up- it's his booking, his transaction, his contract with the mft's, so let them chase him for the cash and fight it out between themselves. "
Yes I agree I'm not paying, good idea about the phone recording of the call
Cheers |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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The Sale of Goods Act 1979 apparently differ whether you are consumer purchaser or a business purchaser. However, as a business purchaser you are entitled to goods which are as described, unless the trader has excluded this in their terms and conditions.
I'm hoping this doesn't affect me!
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