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15000 refugees
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"Scotland hopefully." | |||
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"We struggle with our own population we are full no more please !" That is bollocks the country is half empty. | |||
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"We struggle with our own population we are full no more please ! That is bollocks the country is half empty." Try telling that to the NHS  | |||
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"ok,so where r we gonna put theses poor ppl" Two years ago we housed an Iranian refugee for 6 months. He worked 2 jobs, was a lovely person, spoke good English, never gave any trouble, and I learnt about a totally different religion. We'd gladly have another. I wish I could say the same about the drug addict from the local council estate who replaced him. 
You'd be surprised how few refugees fit the standard Daily Mail profile.
Mr ddc | |||
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"ok,so where r we gonna put theses poor ppl Two years ago we housed an Iranian refugee for 6 months. He worked 2 jobs, was a lovely person, spoke good English, never gave any trouble, and I learnt about a totally different religion. We'd gladly have another. I wish I could say the same about the drug addict from the local council estate who replaced him.
You'd be surprised how few refugees fit the standard Daily Mail profile.
Mr ddc"*claps* I'm not getting sucked into this debate again but put them somewhere they'll be safe. They're welcome in my world. I had a lump in my throat watching some people being welcomed yesterday, restores my faith in human nature to see decent people doing what they can. Heartwarming. | |||
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"We struggle with our own population we are full no more please ! That is bollocks the country is half empty. Try telling that to the NHS "£100 million has just been knocked off the NHS budget and been sent to syria for AID. This government is good i must say... | |||
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"ok,so where r we gonna put theses poor ppl Two years ago we housed an Iranian refugee for 6 months. He worked 2 jobs, was a lovely person, spoke good English, never gave any trouble, and I learnt about a totally different religion. We'd gladly have another. I wish I could say the same about the drug addict from the local council estate who replaced him.
You'd be surprised how few refugees fit the standard Daily Mail profile.
Mr ddc
*claps*
I'm not getting sucked into this debate again but put them somewhere they'll be safe.
They're welcome in my world.
I had a lump in my throat watching some people being welcomed yesterday, restores my faith in human nature to see decent people doing what they can.
Heartwarming. " | |||
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"I'm trying to imagine how someone must feel after travelling so far,seeing people die and be treated badly and then walk into a safe home,knowing you have ended your journey. " I can't start to imagine it, it's just a terrible situation. | |||
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"ok,so where r we gonna put theses poor ppl Two years ago we housed an Iranian refugee for 6 months. He worked 2 jobs, was a lovely person, spoke good English, never gave any trouble, and I learnt about a totally different religion. We'd gladly have another. I wish I could say the same about the drug addict from the local council estate who replaced him.
You'd be surprised how few refugees fit the standard Daily Mail profile.
Mr ddc"That's putting your money where your mouth is. I wonder who else would have the courage of their convictions? | |||
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"I was wondering where the daily refugee thread was: thanks! "Your reply sounded slightly annoyed at my question.i was only asking | |||
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"ok,so where r we gonna put theses poor ppl Two years ago we housed an Iranian refugee for 6 months. He worked 2 jobs, was a lovely person, spoke good English, never gave any trouble, and I learnt about a totally different religion. We'd gladly have another. I wish I could say the same about the drug addict from the local council estate who replaced him.
You'd be surprised how few refugees fit the standard Daily Mail profile.
Mr ddc"You are good people. | |||
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"I hope they get a better and safer life......" Like several people here,I'm not going to get sucked in to this Refugee Debate v.7.3.8.. (lost track of how many there have been). I'll give a very brief,but hopefully concise,description of our priorities,and that's all. I say "OUR priorities" because they are our priorities. Ignoring the possible accusations of anthropocentrism for now,the first incontrovertible fact is this: we are all human beings (In not even going to countenance any arguments to the contrary on that one),and the only thing that separates us,here,from the "refugees" of the world is that hopefully temporary status - and we're only one collapse of a stable government away from that ourselves,at any time. We are lucky. That's all,just lucky. An accident of birth meant that you weren't born in Angola,or a collapsing Syria,or an invaded Kuwait,or a cancerous mutation of a former Germany which sought to liquidate it's own people,or yet another tragic incarnation of a Russia that determined to do the same,or one of the thousands of Scottish crofters who were removed in the Highland Clearances. I could keep adding to this list but the point remains the same: we are,overall,lucky. And many of the problems are decidedly First World problems. A little perspective goes a long way and we could all do with some. When I served with the Army I saw,first-hand,what real suffering is and I would challenge anyone to have stood by and done nothing when actual,real,live human beings are reduced to that point. What happens to a 3 year old child when it's so hungry it starts to eat dirt? It dies. What happens to a man who can't feed himself,can't wash himself,can't ask his family to help because he has none,but is still alive after having both his arms hacked off with a machete? He dies,slowly. Our country is a member of the G8 - that is,the Group of Eight,the eight most advanced industrialized - and richest - nations on Earth. I think these nations - in particular but not exclusively - have a duty of care. It is our responsibility to each other. | |||
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" I'm not getting sucked into this debate again but put them somewhere they'll be safe. " It's always worth getting sucked in DG, even if it's only as a Devil's Advocate as I sometimes do. Otherwise you risk the undecided being swayed by the vocal minority. " I had a lump in my throat watching some people being welcomed yesterday, restores my faith in human nature to see decent people doing what they can. Heartwarming. "
Though I felt slightly ashamed that they were all German, not British people doing the welcoming.
I was also praying hard that the second story wouldn't be about some 'England First' rally in some midland town.
Now, the rest of you stop making out we're some kind of effing saints - he paid rent you know! (I was only trying to show how normal they really are  ) | |||
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" I'm not getting sucked into this debate again but put them somewhere they'll be safe. It's always worth getting sucked in DG, even if it's only as a Devil's Advocate as I sometimes do. Otherwise you risk the undecided being swayed by the vocal minority. I had a lump in my throat watching some people being welcomed yesterday, restores my faith in human nature to see decent people doing what they can. Heartwarming.
Though I felt slightly ashamed that they were all German, not British people doing the welcoming.
I was also praying hard that the second story wouldn't be about some 'England First' rally in some midland town.
Now, the rest of you stop making out we're some kind of effing saints - he paid rent you know! (I was only trying to show how normal they really are )"I'm soft hearted and some of the comments made were so disgusting it made me retreat back into my pink, fluffy world with the people who don't support such vulgarity. Hopefully the good people outweigh the noisy ones.  | |||
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"I wish we handpick the young attractive women." Wow...  | |||
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"I wish we handpick the young attractive women. Wow... "I know, it's a mind blowing idea. Vote Lib for Leader of Planet Earth. | |||
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"NO housing in the south west people on the housing list for many years are they to be pushed back further to allow the country to feel better Send them to Scotland plenty of room and empty buildings " ------------------- What do you know about Scotland, or empty buildings? Long waiting lists for housing here too FYI Abolish the house of Lords, put them up there, and pay for their keep with the £300 per lord per day expenses we'd save if the greedy Lords weren't continuously dipping into the public trough... --------------------- | |||
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"These posts sicken me, so much hatred and coldheartedness comes through from the bigots who are happy to cause problems in the world, and then blame the victims. " I'm not blaming the victims. Neither am I going to be guilted by anyone else into believing I caused this. I fail to understand the sudden outpouring of handwringing that has come about over the past few days. I've been reading articles for months about women and children drowning in the Mediterranean and bodies washing up on beaches. If it took seeing an image of a drowned photogenic 3 year old to jolt me into feeling something that would make me a special kind of hypocrite. And why this, now? Why the focus on Syria only? What makes a Syrian refugee more deserving than a Sudanese refugee? There are displaced people around the world living in refugee camps which have been in existence longer than I've been alive. Why no facebook campaign about them? I feel for these people, how could I not? But saying that I won't be opening my home to house a refugee. or that I'm not sure just accepting more and more people is the answer, doesn't make me a cold hearted bigot, whatever Twitter, Bob and the Guardian would have people believe. | |||
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"I wish we handpick the young attractive women. Wow...
I know, it's a mind blowing idea.
Vote Lib for Leader of Planet Earth."im not sure this was a positive ' wow'. | |||
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"I wish we handpick the young attractive women. Wow...
I know, it's a mind blowing idea.
Vote Lib for Leader of Planet Earth."There's definitely a future as a Conservative councillor for you | |||
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"I wish we handpick the young attractive women. Wow...
I know, it's a mind blowing idea.
Vote Lib for Leader of Planet Earth.
im not sure this was a positive ' wow'.
"Too late, I'm taking it as one. Can I offer you a "Vote Lib" car sticker? Only £4.99! | |||
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"I wish we handpick the young attractive women. Wow...
I know, it's a mind blowing idea.
Vote Lib for Leader of Planet Earth.
im not sure this was a positive ' wow'.
"I'm not sure it was a serious suggestion | |||
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"These posts sicken me, so much hatred and coldheartedness comes through from the bigots who are happy to cause problems in the world, and then blame the victims. "
These threads make me sad, too.
-Courtney | |||
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"These posts sicken me, so much hatred and coldheartedness comes through from the bigots who are happy to cause problems in the world, and then blame the victims. I'm not blaming the victims. Neither am I going to be guilted by anyone else into believing I caused this. I fail to understand the sudden outpouring of handwringing that has come about over the past few days. I've been reading articles for months about women and children drowning in the Mediterranean and bodies washing up on beaches. If it took seeing an image of a drowned photogenic 3 year old to jolt me into feeling something that would make me a special kind of hypocrite. And why this, now? Why the focus on Syria only? What makes a Syrian refugee more deserving than a Sudanese refugee? There are displaced people around the world living in refugee camps which have been in existence longer than I've been alive. Why no facebook campaign about them? I feel for these people, how could I not? But saying that I won't be opening my home to house a refugee. or that I'm not sure just accepting more and more people is the answer, doesn't make me a cold hearted bigot, whatever Twitter, Bob and the Guardian would have people believe. " Why would you feel that comment was aimed at you?  | |||
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"There's definitely a future as a Conservative councillor for you "Hah (but ewww at the same time). "I'm not sure it was a serious suggestion "Semi-serious? I'm willing to go down to 80% to show what a kind a benevolent leader I am. | |||
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"I think there is an element of fear in Britain Fear of opening the floodgates too wide, welcoming not only refugees but also others that are not fleeing their countries but simply coming here to abuse our welfare state, or that acting too quicly will allow extremists to enter easily and begin terror campaigns. I feel torn bewtween compassion for those who i would willingly help any way i could, and those that i fear will tear our country apart from inside. "
Once there in a safe country they need to be prossessed and distributed through europe not just let in willy nilly I really feel for the refugees but not the immagrants there IS a difference media still call refugees immigrants the crossing at the tunnel is rediculous and need to be sorted asap would I take a refugee in absolutely | |||
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"These posts sicken me, so much hatred and coldheartedness comes through from the bigots who are happy to cause problems in the world, and then blame the victims. I'm not blaming the victims. Neither am I going to be guilted by anyone else into believing I caused this. I fail to understand the sudden outpouring of handwringing that has come about over the past few days. I've been reading articles for months about women and children drowning in the Mediterranean and bodies washing up on beaches. If it took seeing an image of a drowned photogenic 3 year old to jolt me into feeling something that would make me a special kind of hypocrite. And why this, now? Why the focus on Syria only? What makes a Syrian refugee more deserving than a Sudanese refugee? There are displaced people around the world living in refugee camps which have been in existence longer than I've been alive. Why no facebook campaign about them? I feel for these people, how could I not? But saying that I won't be opening my home to house a refugee. or that I'm not sure just accepting more and more people is the answer, doesn't make me a cold hearted bigot, whatever Twitter, Bob and the Guardian would have people believe. Why would you feel that comment was aimed at you? "I didn't particularly, perhaps wrong of me to quote your post. But this appears to be the default position by 90% of media commentators. You're either one thing or the other, no middle ground | |||
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"There's definitely a future as a Conservative councillor for you
Hah (but ewww at the same time).
I'm not sure it was a serious suggestion
Semi-serious? I'm willing to go down to 80% to show what a kind a benevolent leader I am."Can the other 20% be fit young men over 6'0? | |||
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"I wish we handpick the young attractive women. Wow...
I know, it's a mind blowing idea.
Vote Lib for Leader of Planet Earth.
im not sure this was a positive ' wow'.
I'm not sure it was a serious suggestion " well silly me for commenting in a discussion where people obviously know each other well enough to know someone is joking at such a serious topic, and i dont.
More rolling eyes | |||
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"I wish we handpick the young attractive women. Wow...
I know, it's a mind blowing idea.
Vote Lib for Leader of Planet Earth.
im not sure this was a positive ' wow'.
I'm not sure it was a serious suggestion
well silly me for commenting in a discussion where people obviously know each other well enough to know someone is joking at such a serious topic, and i dont.
More rolling eyes "Anybody could have posted that and it would obviously have been a joke. | |||
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"What about our homeless first? 1000's of people living rough on the street with no homes. " is there no help for them at all ? | |||
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"I wish we handpick the young attractive women. Wow...
I know, it's a mind blowing idea.
Vote Lib for Leader of Planet Earth.
im not sure this was a positive ' wow'.
I'm not sure it was a serious suggestion
well silly me for commenting in a discussion where people obviously know each other well enough to know someone is joking at such a serious topic, and i dont.
More rolling eyes
Anybody could have posted that and it would obviously have been a joke. "like i said ... silly me. | |||
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"I'm confused about the refugees that are fleeing from France. I mean, why not just stay there! I thought the laws on asylum were that you had to claim in the first shore you hit. Nothing against refugees, so please don't start attacking me, I'm just confused as to why they aren't content on the perfectly safe haven of France! " They can't all stay in France can they? not all refugees are coming to the uk, I dare say they all have their own destination when leaving home, loads have stayed in Italy, gone to Spain, Germany etc loads are staying in France but of course a lot are coming here too we have to share the load hey can't all stay in one country | |||
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"I take it I can still count on your support though?" sorry, i dont support those whos campaign is based on poor humour . | |||
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"I take it I can still count on your support though? sorry, i dont support those whos campaign is based on poor humour . "I like poor humor, lib. You've got my vote. But I would like Ruby's 20% hot guy concession.
-Courtney | |||
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"I think there is an element of fear in Britain Fear of opening the floodgates too wide, welcoming not only refugees but also others that are not fleeing their countries but simply coming here to abuse our welfare state, or that acting too quicly will allow extremists to enter easily and begin terror campaigns. I feel torn bewtween compassion for those who i would willingly help any way i could, and those that i fear will tear our country apart from inside.
Once there in a safe country they need to be prossessed and distributed through europe not just let in willy nilly I really feel for the refugees but not the immagrants there IS a difference media still call refugees immigrants the crossing at the tunnel is rediculous and need to be sorted asap would I take a refugee in absolutely "am i wrong thinking that once 'processed' they become legal and can then move within Europe to whatever country they wish to settle in.?? (Genuine question, anyone know) | |||
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"We struggle with our own population we are full no more please ! That is bollocks the country is half empty. Try telling that to the NHS
£100 million has just been knocked off the NHS budget and been sent to syria for AID. This government is good i must say..."I spent a few hours chatting about the nhs with a good friend yesterday . And wow my eyes were opened wide when he told me some of the home truths about it . The most noticeable points he highlighted were as follows . 1. The pensions paid out . Incredible amounts paid out to over 55's . 2. The you scratch my back , I'll scratch yours stuff that goes on . This is with regard to building maintenance , again the money and figures are just mind blowing . 3. The money paid out to cover holiday and relief - you simply wouldn't believe it . And to be fair the list goes on . He isn't a whistle blower , but sits very highly in the nhs and has no reason to make any of this up . So my take is that the nhs is totally going to collapse , it's unsustainable as it stands . The management needs to be completely re educated and it needs to be run in such a way that it doesn't pay thousands to cover one shift . More doctors , fairer pay structures , independent re_iews of payments for everything from property maintenance , a serious look at money paid out on pensions , and so much more . And back on topic , find employment for the refugees and let them in . Building construction , maintenance , there's loads of work they are happy to do to make a fair contribution . And just as has happened in the past , a valuable addition to our society . | |||
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"We struggle with our own population we are full no more please ! That is bollocks the country is half empty. Try telling that to the NHS
£100 million has just been knocked off the NHS budget and been sent to syria for AID. This government is good i must say...
I spent a few hours chatting about the nhs with a good friend yesterday . And wow my eyes were opened wide when he told me some of the home truths about it .
The most noticeable points he highlighted were as follows .
1. The pensions paid out . Incredible amounts paid out to over 55's .
2. The you scratch my back , I'll scratch yours stuff that goes on . This is with regard to building maintenance , again the money and figures are just mind blowing .
3. The money paid out to cover holiday and relief - you simply wouldn't believe it .
And to be fair the list goes on . He isn't a whistle blower , but sits very highly in the nhs and has no reason to make any of this up .
So my take is that the nhs is totally going to collapse , it's unsustainable as it stands .
The management needs to be completely re educated and it needs to be run in such a way that it doesn't pay thousands to cover one shift .
More doctors , fairer pay structures , independent re_iews of payments for everything from property maintenance , a serious look at money paid out on pensions , and so much more .
And back on topic , find employment for the refugees and let them in . Building construction , maintenance , there's loads of work they are happy to do to make a fair contribution . And just as has happened in the past , a valuable addition to our society ."Bet it was just a porter who was fucked off his holiday request was denied. | |||
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"construction , maintenance , there's loads of work they are happy to do to make a fair contribution . And just as has happened in the past , a valuable addition to our society ." Great post, however don't confuse these refugees with people from developing countries. Syrians are well qualified and have professional qualifications. They may not be looking to start mixing cement, lifting bricks and sweeping the streets. | |||
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"The second homes will be commandered to house them. Empty properties too. Churches will become sleeping quarters over night. " That's temporary. We've SHIT loads of brownfield land we need to recycle. This is a great reason to sort it out. | |||
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"We should look ar our own homeless too. So many ex service men on the streets and they gave there all so we could live the way we do. How about we give them a room first. Just saying " I know an ex serviceman who sold his story to a newspaper about being on the streets. Everyone was saying how shocking it was. But he was dealing drugs from his house and didn't pay his rent so he got evicted! | |||
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"The second homes will be commandered to house them. Empty properties too. Churches will become sleeping quarters over night. " Churches used to be a place where people who needed help, got it. Including sleeping. It would be nice to see those buildings being used for true good again. -Courtney | |||
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"These posts sicken me, so much hatred and coldheartedness comes through from the bigots who are happy to cause problems in the world, and then blame the victims. I'm not blaming the victims. Neither am I going to be guilted by anyone else into believing I caused this. I fail to understand the sudden outpouring of handwringing that has come about over the past few days. I've been reading articles for months about women and children drowning in the Mediterranean and bodies washing up on beaches. If it took seeing an image of a drowned photogenic 3 year old to jolt me into feeling something that would make me a special kind of hypocrite. And why this, now? Why the focus on Syria only? What makes a Syrian refugee more deserving than a Sudanese refugee? There are displaced people around the world living in refugee camps which have been in existence longer than I've been alive. Why no facebook campaign about them? I feel for these people, how could I not? But saying that I won't be opening my home to house a refugee. or that I'm not sure just accepting more and more people is the answer, doesn't make me a cold hearted bigot, whatever Twitter, Bob and the Guardian would have people believe. Why would you feel that comment was aimed at you?
I didn't particularly, perhaps wrong of me to quote your post. But this appears to be the default position by 90% of media commentators. You're either one thing or the other, no middle ground "They love to divide, I agree with you on the fact that governments etc appear to choose who to care for and who to ignore, always an ulterior motive with them, Rwanda for example. | |||
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"So, if the boot was on the other foot, i.e. we were war torn Britain, would they take us in do you think ?" Doesn't matter. They should do. That's enough for me. I don't act towards others how they act to me. I act as I think I should act. -Courtney | |||
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"So, if the boot was on the other foot, i.e. we were war torn Britain, would they take us in do you think ?" Yeh. Perhaps look at the locations of the majority of refugees. | |||
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"The second homes will be commandered to house them. Empty properties too. Churches will become sleeping quarters over night. Churches used to be a place where people who needed help, got it. Including sleeping. It would be nice to see those buildings being used for true good again. -Courtney" The Dean of Sheffield took some people to court because they pitched tents and made a camp of protest outside Sheffield Cathedral, the irony that Jesus would have been in that camp and not the Cathedral was obviously lost on him. Sorry to diversify, but they should be doing more of what they preach. | |||
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"So, if the boot was on the other foot, i.e. we were war torn Britain, would they take us in do you think ?" honest answer is who knows but i wouldn't want to have gone through what some of them have done etc.. | |||
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"and how about our national lottery ,,,,theres not millions of pounds profit sitting in there account in unclaimed prizes and profit.........theres billions,,,,,,,,,,,,how come there never asked to contribute or help , surely thats a good cause ?" They do contribute to charity already. They can't be forced to contribute to a certain one. | |||
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"Hopefully when they all get citizenship the huge amount of extra workforce will force a drop in salary for everyone which will in turn force a drop in house prices allowing youngsters to get on the property ladder. Of course that won't happen because of the need for extra housing. Soooo we'll get a drop in salary with a rise in house prices! Yay! " Workforce/Reed are already flooding construction/general labour market and making a fortune, A lot of the places I visit are full of agency workers on zero hours which is starting to lower the average wage, Making it harder for the young and existing works to make a living | |||
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"The second homes will be commandered to house them. Empty properties too. Churches will become sleeping quarters over night. Churches used to be a place where people who needed help, got it. Including sleeping. It would be nice to see those buildings being used for true good again. -Courtney" In Derby they are, at least over the Winter months, hot food is also available 7 days a week, mostly twice a day | |||
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"The second homes will be commandered to house them. Empty properties too. Churches will become sleeping quarters over night. Churches used to be a place where people who needed help, got it. Including sleeping. It would be nice to see those buildings being used for true good again. -Courtney In Derby they are, at least over the Winter months, hot food is also available 7 days a week, mostly twice a day " | |||
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"I was wondering where the daily refugee thread was: thanks! " | |||
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"I wonder how many of the politicians, churchmen or celebrities who are insisting we must take these people in will actually open the doors of their homes to them." Beyond Bob Geldof I would think very few, if any. It is very easy to wrap oneself in the feel good glow of being compassionate and caring when it is at someone else's expense. When it lands on ones own doorstep compassion usually gets very quickly kicked into the long grass. To quote William Blake. ‘He who would do good to another must do it in minute particulars. General good is the plea of the scoundrel, hypocrite and flatterer.’ I think quite a few politicians and "Slebs" should take note of those words. | |||
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"I wonder how many of the politicians, churchmen or celebrities who are insisting we must take these people in will actually open the doors of their homes to them. Beyond Bob Geldof I would think very few, if any. It is very easy to wrap oneself in the feel good glow of being compassionate and caring when it is at someone else's expense. When it lands on ones own doorstep compassion usually gets very quickly kicked into the long grass. To quote William Blake. ‘He who would do good to another must do it in minute particulars. General good is the plea of the scoundrel, hypocrite and flatterer.’ I think quite a few politicians and "Slebs" should take note of those words. " To be fair though, there's a whole bunch of empty homes to be filled as it is before housing with families has to even be considered. | |||
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"I'm fully behind excepting people fleeing Syria/Iraq etc.. But it's only a short term solution we need to get to the route of the problem, Terrorists dictators and big companies interfering in other countries " Agreed. It would help if the US stopped flaunting its big dick, in the shape of a military, as well. -Courtney | |||
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"It seems to me that we are bungling an extremely good opportunity to show people on the fence in said countries how reasonable we are and that we are in fact not the enemy." Plus we can afford it and we have the space. If we don't, then we'll be a nation of dickheads. It'd be shameful to turn away people in need. | |||
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"It seems to me that we are bungling an extremely good opportunity to show people on the fence in said countries how reasonable we are and that we are in fact not the enemy. Plus we can afford it and we have the space. If we don't, then we'll be a nation of dickheads. It'd be shameful to turn away people in need. " Meh, that too I guess.  | |||
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"It seems to me that we are bungling an extremely good opportunity to show people on the fence in said countries how reasonable we are and that we are in fact not the enemy. Plus we can afford it and we have the space. If we don't, then we'll be a nation of dickheads. It'd be shameful to turn away people in need. " agree, but how do we differentiate between people in need and people in greed, ie true refugees or those just wishing to move here to abuse our welfare. Especially difficult when under pressure to rush. | |||
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"The second homes will be commandered to house them. Empty properties too. Churches will become sleeping quarters over night. That's temporary. We've SHIT loads of brownfield land we need to recycle. This is a great reason to sort it out. " That's what is happening in my Borough,although we are running out rapidly now. Every available square metre is being built on. The government has a new project called the Riverside project that is developing along the Thames in Essex. It's starting to take shape and thousands of homes have been built. We need more businesses and leisure facilities now. | |||
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"It seems to me that we are bungling an extremely good opportunity to show people on the fence in said countries how reasonable we are and that we are in fact not the enemy. Plus we can afford it and we have the space. If we don't, then we'll be a nation of dickheads. It'd be shameful to turn away people in need. agree, but how do we differentiate between people in need and people in greed, ie true refugees or those just wishing to move here to abuse our welfare. Especially difficult when under pressure to rush. " By asking them? By checking where they're emigrating from? I'm pretty sure if passport control can stop me to check my bag and how much money I have, the resources are there to check where people are coming from. | |||
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"The second homes will be commandered to house them. Empty properties too. Churches will become sleeping quarters over night. That's temporary. We've SHIT loads of brownfield land we need to recycle. This is a great reason to sort it out. That's what is happening in my Borough,although we are running out rapidly now. Every available square metre is being built on. The government has a new project called the Riverside project that is developing along the Thames in Essex. It's starting to take shape and thousands of homes have been built. We need more businesses and leisure facilities now. " I noticed it when I was living in Barking. And whenever I travel to Scotland, there's SO much unused land. It's a waste. Makes me laugh when people say we don't have the space, when we could clearly house thousands/millions if these areas were repurposed. | |||
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"It seems to me that we are bungling an extremely good opportunity to show people on the fence in said countries how reasonable we are and that we are in fact not the enemy. Plus we can afford it and we have the space. If we don't, then we'll be a nation of dickheads. It'd be shameful to turn away people in need. agree, but how do we differentiate between people in need and people in greed, ie true refugees or those just wishing to move here to abuse our welfare. Especially difficult when under pressure to rush. By asking them? By checking where they're emigrating from? I'm pretty sure if passport control can stop me to check my bag and how much money I have, the resources are there to check where people are coming from. " what.... they come with ID badges..? Passports..... papers... ? They are arriving by boat, walked hundreds of miles, etc etc, they can claim to be anyone from anywhere, who will know. those at Calais now are not carrying ID... they are aiming to get here any way possible and be absorbed without papers etc. Its a very difficult call for whoever has to decide who stays and who goes. | |||
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"It seems to me that we are bungling an extremely good opportunity to show people on the fence in said countries how reasonable we are and that we are in fact not the enemy. Plus we can afford it and we have the space. If we don't, then we'll be a nation of dickheads. It'd be shameful to turn away people in need. agree, but how do we differentiate between people in need and people in greed, ie true refugees or those just wishing to move here to abuse our welfare. Especially difficult when under pressure to rush. By asking them? By checking where they're emigrating from? I'm pretty sure if passport control can stop me to check my bag and how much money I have, the resources are there to check where people are coming from. what.... they come with ID badges..? Passports..... papers... ? They are arriving by boat, walked hundreds of miles, etc etc, they can claim to be anyone from anywhere, who will know. those at Calais now are not carrying ID... they are aiming to get here any way possible and be absorbed without papers etc. Its a very difficult call for whoever has to decide who stays and who goes. " No they're not, hardly any are at the Calais border. And yeh, temporary papers are granted. | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. why aren't the big, rich Arab states being pressured to accept refugees? Surely social integration would be easier for a start." I posted earlier about Jordan. They've got 1.5million when their population is 6m. You ought to check first. | |||
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"I think there is an element of fear in Britain Fear of opening the floodgates too wide, welcoming not only refugees but also others that are not fleeing their countries but simply coming here to abuse our welfare state, or that acting too quicly will allow extremists to enter easily and begin terror campaigns. I feel torn bewtween compassion for those who i would willingly help any way i could, and those that i fear will tear our country apart from inside.
Once there in a safe country they need to be prossessed and distributed through europe not just let in willy nilly I really feel for the refugees but not the immagrants there IS a difference media still call refugees immigrants the crossing at the tunnel is rediculous and need to be sorted asap would I take a refugee in absolutely "Somehow I suspect you won't. | |||
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"ok,so where r we gonna put theses poor ppl Two years ago we housed an Iranian refugee for 6 months. He worked 2 jobs, was a lovely person, spoke good English, never gave any trouble, and I learnt about a totally different religion. We'd gladly have another. I wish I could say the same about the drug addict from the local council estate who replaced him.
You'd be surprised how few refugees fit the standard Daily Mail profile.
Mr ddc
That's putting your money where your mouth is.
I wonder who else would have the courage of their convictions?
"We asked our landlord if we could take in some migrants since we have a couple of rooms that we could give over to them. It would unfortunately invalidate his landlords insurance. 
So we're working out other ways that we can help at the moment.
Somebody I know owns an old prison building that is used for other purposes now is trying to find out who he should talk to in order to accomodate refugees there. He needs money to buy in things like bedding, and it could only be in the short term since it's his business now. But people like this want to help. | |||
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"do these people actually come here dead broke money wise ? have they no money at all ? are they all from countries that dont have banks etc . just asking as not sure......" a lot paid the traffickers and may not have any left | |||
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"ok,so where r we gonna put theses poor ppl Two years ago we housed an Iranian refugee for 6 months. He worked 2 jobs, was a lovely person, spoke good English, never gave any trouble, and I learnt about a totally different religion. We'd gladly have another. I wish I could say the same about the drug addict from the local council estate who replaced him.
You'd be surprised how few refugees fit the standard Daily Mail profile.
Mr ddc
*claps*
I'm not getting sucked into this debate again but put them somewhere they'll be safe.
They're welcome in my world.
I had a lump in my throat watching some people being welcomed yesterday, restores my faith in human nature to see decent people doing what they can.
Heartwarming.
"
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"It seems to me that we are bungling an extremely good opportunity to show people on the fence in said countries how reasonable we are and that we are in fact not the enemy. Plus we can afford it and we have the space. If we don't, then we'll be a nation of dickheads. It'd be shameful to turn away people in need. agree, but how do we differentiate between people in need and people in greed, ie true refugees or those just wishing to move here to abuse our welfare. Especially difficult when under pressure to rush. By asking them? By checking where they're emigrating from? I'm pretty sure if passport control can stop me to check my bag and how much money I have, the resources are there to check where people are coming from. what.... they come with ID badges..? Passports..... papers... ? They are arriving by boat, walked hundreds of miles, etc etc, they can claim to be anyone from anywhere, who will know. those at Calais now are not carrying ID... they are aiming to get here any way possible and be absorbed without papers etc. Its a very difficult call for whoever has to decide who stays and who goes. No they're not, hardly any are at the Calais border. And yeh, temporary papers are granted. " i must be watching different news reports then. Ive been watching the one that shows hundreds upon hundreds of people ( yes people) in camps near the euro tunnel entrance trying desperately to get over to he UK. Illegally, without papers, using weapons etc | |||
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"do these people actually come here dead broke money wise ? have they no money at all ? are they all from countries that dont have banks etc . just asking as not sure......" Yeh, most political refugees have left everything they have behind. | |||
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"The second homes will be commandered to house them. Empty properties too. Churches will become sleeping quarters over night. That's temporary. We've SHIT loads of brownfield land we need to recycle. This is a great reason to sort it out. That's what is happening in my Borough,although we are running out rapidly now. Every available square metre is being built on. The government has a new project called the Riverside project that is developing along the Thames in Essex. It's starting to take shape and thousands of homes have been built. We need more businesses and leisure facilities now. I noticed it when I was living in Barking. And whenever I travel to Scotland, there's SO much unused land. It's a waste. Makes me laugh when people say we don't have the space, when we could clearly house thousands/millions if these areas were repurposed. " Some of the area is marshland so I don't think it can be built on,although I think they drain it. 30% of the people living in this Borough were not born in the UK and we're doing ok. There are some problems of course,bus journeys at school times are a bloody nightmare because so many students have been moved from their original schools. It's slowly settling down though. We have had two new secondary schools and some primary schools and at least one new health centre I know of. The government knows we are going to be taking in extra people who will be having children and expanding the population. They have to invest in the services and seem to be doing ok so far. | |||
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"It seems to me that we are bungling an extremely good opportunity to show people on the fence in said countries how reasonable we are and that we are in fact not the enemy. Plus we can afford it and we have the space. If we don't, then we'll be a nation of dickheads. It'd be shameful to turn away people in need. agree, but how do we differentiate between people in need and people in greed, ie true refugees or those just wishing to move here to abuse our welfare. Especially difficult when under pressure to rush. By asking them? By checking where they're emigrating from? I'm pretty sure if passport control can stop me to check my bag and how much money I have, the resources are there to check where people are coming from. what.... they come with ID badges..? Passports..... papers... ? They are arriving by boat, walked hundreds of miles, etc etc, they can claim to be anyone from anywhere, who will know. those at Calais now are not carrying ID... they are aiming to get here any way possible and be absorbed without papers etc. Its a very difficult call for whoever has to decide who stays and who goes. No they're not, hardly any are at the Calais border. And yeh, temporary papers are granted. i must be watching different news reports then. Ive been watching the one that shows hundreds upon hundreds of people ( yes people) in camps near the euro tunnel entrance trying desperately to get over to he UK. Illegally, without papers, using weapons etc " You're defo not talking about the same refugees. Those are mainly people who just want to come to the UK, not people being forced out of war torn countries for safety. | |||
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"Bob Geldolf is taking some, so i heard on fb. Europe now has 11 million empty houses, we'll find room." | |||
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"i must be watching different news reports then. Ive been watching the one that shows hundreds upon hundreds of people ( yes people) in camps near the euro tunnel entrance trying desperately to get over to he UK. Illegally, without papers, using weapons etc " There are like, 4000 people in the camps at Calais? Not even that many perhaps. That's but a small drop in the ocean for international refugees. | |||
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"ok,so where r we gonna put theses poor ppl Two years ago we housed an Iranian refugee for 6 months. He worked 2 jobs, was a lovely person, spoke good English, never gave any trouble, and I learnt about a totally different religion. We'd gladly have another. I wish I could say the same about the drug addict from the local council estate who replaced him.
You'd be surprised how few refugees fit the standard Daily Mail profile.
Mr ddc
That's putting your money where your mouth is.
I wonder who else would have the courage of their convictions?
We asked our landlord if we could take in some migrants since we have a couple of rooms that we could give over to them. It would unfortunately invalidate his landlords insurance.
So we're working out other ways that we can help at the moment.
Somebody I know owns an old prison building that is used for other purposes now is trying to find out who he should talk to in order to accomodate refugees there. He needs money to buy in things like bedding, and it could only be in the short term since it's his business now. But people like this want to help."As in "give me money so I can help"? | |||
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"Scotland hopefully. "No problem, our humanitarian qualities are known throughout the world. | |||
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"The richer ones just roll in by train and walking, trying not to get caught before they reach their destination and hand themselves in. 3000 euros I think they said it costs for that journey." A lot of those richer ones left 5-10 years ago at the start of the troubles. | |||
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"do these people actually come here dead broke money wise ? have they no money at all ? are they all from countries that dont have banks etc . just asking as not sure...... Yeh, most political refugees have left everything they have behind. " Would Syrian currency be any good to them here anyway. | |||
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" As in "give me money so I can help"?" Yes. Because he has to turn the electric supplies on to parts of the buildings, and provide basic things like a meal or two a day. He's trying to find a charity that can organise that kind of help. He has the short term space, with some facilities already in place - but not the logistics to house people. | |||
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"Scotland hopefully.
No problem, our humanitarian qualities are known throughout the world. "Apparently Nicola will be putting several up in the many empty bedrooms in Bute House with yet more under canvas in Charlotte Sq. | |||
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"ok,so where r we gonna put theses poor ppl Two years ago we housed an Iranian refugee for 6 months. He worked 2 jobs, was a lovely person, spoke good English, never gave any trouble, and I learnt about a totally different religion. We'd gladly have another. I wish I could say the same about the drug addict from the local council estate who replaced him.
You'd be surprised how few refugees fit the standard Daily Mail profile.
Mr ddc" | |||
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"The richer ones just roll in by train and walking, trying not to get caught before they reach their destination and hand themselves in. 3000 euros I think they said it costs for that journey. A lot of those richer ones left 5-10 years ago at the start of the troubles. " More than likely, I just remembered watching this bleary eyed the other morning before work. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34118978 | |||
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"It seems to me that we are bungling an extremely good opportunity to show people on the fence in said countries how reasonable we are and that we are in fact not the enemy. Plus we can afford it and we have the space. If we don't, then we'll be a nation of dickheads. It'd be shameful to turn away people in need. agree, but how do we differentiate between people in need and people in greed, ie true refugees or those just wishing to move here to abuse our welfare. Especially difficult when under pressure to rush. By asking them? By checking where they're emigrating from? I'm pretty sure if passport control can stop me to check my bag and how much money I have, the resources are there to check where people are coming from. what.... they come with ID badges..? Passports..... papers... ? They are arriving by boat, walked hundreds of miles, etc etc, they can claim to be anyone from anywhere, who will know. those at Calais now are not carrying ID... they are aiming to get here any way possible and be absorbed without papers etc. Its a very difficult call for whoever has to decide who stays and who goes. No they're not, hardly any are at the Calais border. And yeh, temporary papers are granted. i must be watching different news reports then. Ive been watching the one that shows hundreds upon hundreds of people ( yes people) in camps near the euro tunnel entrance trying desperately to get over to he UK. Illegally, without papers, using weapons etc You're defo not talking about the same refugees. Those are mainly people who just want to come to the UK, not people being forced out of war torn countries for safety. " which is exactly my point. How do you differentiate. If none carry any ID etc, how do we know that we are not giving refuge and shelter to an extremist, or a migrant, rather than a refugee. We need to ensure that the refugees we take are from camps and areprocessed properly so that kf their family comes through they can be traced and reunited, not just bring them in and dispurse them randomly. Im not arguing that we shouldnt act, just that we dont act that quickly that it becomes an easy way for those with other motives can slip through. | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. why aren't the big, rich Arab states being pressured to accept refugees? Surely social integration would be easier for a start. I posted earlier about Jordan. They've got 1.5million when their population is 6m. You ought to check first. " So Jordan has taken 1.5m? What about the other Arab states? Surely they could do more. | |||
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"I'm confused about the refugees that are fleeing from France. I mean, why not just stay there! I thought the laws on asylum were that you had to claim in the first shore you hit. Nothing against refugees, so please don't start attacking me, I'm just confused as to why they aren't content on the perfectly safe haven of France! " one thing is english is learnt in schools all over the world most music sung in english, plus all the media telling them of houses benefits free money you cant blame them for wanting to come here | |||
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"More than likely, I just remembered watching this bleary eyed the other morning before work. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34118978" It's so sad, isn't it? She just wanted to be with her brother to try and have a life where she's treated with a bit of respect. | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. " I don't know any of the stats. But is it theoretically better to prolong the life of 10 brits who have had good Western lives by a few months? Or to save a thousand refugees and help them have a life? | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. I don't know any of the stats. But is it theoretically better to prolong the life of 10 brits who have had good Western lives by a few months? Or to save a thousand refugees and help them have a life?" maybe im selfish, but if it were my mum or child then yes. i cant help feeling like that | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. why aren't the big, rich Arab states being pressured to accept refugees? Surely social integration would be easier for a start. I posted earlier about Jordan. They've got 1.5million when their population is 6m. You ought to check first. So Jordan has taken 1.5m? What about the other Arab states? Surely they could do more." Seems like you just want others to take them instead. 1.5m is a LOT of refugees and you've just disregarded it pretty quickly. | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. I don't know any of the stats. But is it theoretically better to prolong the life of 10 brits who have had good Western lives by a few months? Or to save a thousand refugees and help them have a life?" We should be doing both. | |||
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"What about Churches? they could be converted into homes for people, and sell the stuff inside to buy food etc, isn't that what was preached by a certain chap two thousand years ago." . Churches are places of worship and have existed for a very long time . Do you actually either attend or donate to any churches ?. I would not want a church sold in order to help so called refugees. | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. I don't know any of the stats. But is it theoretically better to prolong the life of 10 brits who have had good Western lives by a few months? Or to save a thousand refugees and help them have a life?" I think it's better to cure 10 Brits and possibly find an alternative place for the refugees, somewhere where they'll be accepted and find social integration easier. The rich Arab states aren't doing much in the way to help and they really should be. | |||
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"It seems to me that we are bungling an extremely good opportunity to show people on the fence in said countries how reasonable we are and that we are in fact not the enemy. Plus we can afford it and we have the space. If we don't, then we'll be a nation of dickheads. It'd be shameful to turn away people in need. agree, but how do we differentiate between people in need and people in greed, ie true refugees or those just wishing to move here to abuse our welfare. Especially difficult when under pressure to rush. By asking them? By checking where they're emigrating from? I'm pretty sure if passport control can stop me to check my bag and how much money I have, the resources are there to check where people are coming from. what.... they come with ID badges..? Passports..... papers... ? They are arriving by boat, walked hundreds of miles, etc etc, they can claim to be anyone from anywhere, who will know. those at Calais now are not carrying ID... they are aiming to get here any way possible and be absorbed without papers etc. Its a very difficult call for whoever has to decide who stays and who goes. No they're not, hardly any are at the Calais border. And yeh, temporary papers are granted. i must be watching different news reports then. Ive been watching the one that shows hundreds upon hundreds of people ( yes people) in camps near the euro tunnel entrance trying desperately to get over to he UK. Illegally, without papers, using weapons etc You're defo not talking about the same refugees. Those are mainly people who just want to come to the UK, not people being forced out of war torn countries for safety. which is exactly my point. How do you differentiate. If none carry any ID etc, how do we know that we are not giving refuge and shelter to an extremist, or a migrant, rather than a refugee. We need to ensure that the refugees we take are from camps and areprocessed properly so that kf their family comes through they can be traced and reunited, not just bring them in and dispurse them randomly. Im not arguing that we shouldnt act, just that we dont act that quickly that it becomes an easy way for those with other motives can slip through. " I'm not sure you're really arguing for providing refuge, having said they could be extremists. I can't be bothered continuing after you saying that cos it seems pretty racist. (Not all brown people are terrorists, you don't need to be scared). | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. why aren't the big, rich Arab states being pressured to accept refugees? Surely social integration would be easier for a start. I posted earlier about Jordan. They've got 1.5million when their population is 6m. You ought to check first. So Jordan has taken 1.5m? What about the other Arab states? Surely they could do more. Seems like you just want others to take them instead. 1.5m is a LOT of refugees and you've just disregarded it pretty quickly. " It is a lot, yes. I'm not disregarding it at all. I'm just wondering why the other Arab states aren't doing anything more to help. They have the finances and in the most part the infrastructure to support nearly all of the refugees. | |||
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"ok,so where r we gonna put theses poor ppl Two years ago we housed an Iranian refugee for 6 months. He worked 2 jobs, was a lovely person, spoke good English, never gave any trouble, and I learnt about a totally different religion. We'd gladly have another. I wish I could say the same about the drug addict from the local council estate who replaced him.
You'd be surprised how few refugees fit the standard Daily Mail profile.
Mr ddc". Out of interest what do you consider the Daily Mail profile of a refugee to be . Do you read the Daily Mail every day .? | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. why aren't the big, rich Arab states being pressured to accept refugees? Surely social integration would be easier for a start. I posted earlier about Jordan. They've got 1.5million when their population is 6m. You ought to check first. So Jordan has taken 1.5m? What about the other Arab states? Surely they could do more. Seems like you just want others to take them instead. 1.5m is a LOT of refugees and you've just disregarded it pretty quickly. It is a lot, yes. I'm not disregarding it at all. I'm just wondering why the other Arab states aren't doing anything more to help. They have the finances and in the most part the infrastructure to support nearly all of the refugees." Your focus is on the wrong part in that case. "Why can't they do it?" doesn't solve the problem, it just makes it someone else's whilst no one gets help. | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. why aren't the big, rich Arab states being pressured to accept refugees? Surely social integration would be easier for a start. I posted earlier about Jordan. They've got 1.5million when their population is 6m. You ought to check first. So Jordan has taken 1.5m? What about the other Arab states? Surely they could do more. Seems like you just want others to take them instead. 1.5m is a LOT of refugees and you've just disregarded it pretty quickly. It is a lot, yes. I'm not disregarding it at all. I'm just wondering why the other Arab states aren't doing anything more to help. They have the finances and in the most part the infrastructure to support nearly all of the refugees. Your focus is on the wrong part in that case. "Why can't they do it?" doesn't solve the problem, it just makes it someone else's whilst no one gets help. " I didn't write "why can't they do it?". I wrote "why can't they do more?" There's a difference. Jordan taking 1.5m is a great start but what about the other Arab states? I'm thinking I would be far easier for the refugees for a start, social integration would be far easier, similar language, similar customs, similar food, no BNP/Britain First etc. It's our duty to take some of the refugees but not at the cost of our own people in need. We should accept the 15,000 and also pressure the Arab world to do their part too. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. why aren't the big, rich Arab states being pressured to accept refugees? Surely social integration would be easier for a start. I posted earlier about Jordan. They've got 1.5million when their population is 6m. You ought to check first. So Jordan has taken 1.5m? What about the other Arab states? Surely they could do more. Seems like you just want others to take them instead. 1.5m is a LOT of refugees and you've just disregarded it pretty quickly. It is a lot, yes. I'm not disregarding it at all. I'm just wondering why the other Arab states aren't doing anything more to help. They have the finances and in the most part the infrastructure to support nearly all of the refugees. Your focus is on the wrong part in that case. "Why can't they do it?" doesn't solve the problem, it just makes it someone else's whilst no one gets help. I didn't write "why can't they do it?". I wrote "why can't they do more?" There's a difference. Jordan taking 1.5m is a great start but what about the other Arab states? I'm thinking I would be far easier for the refugees for a start, social integration would be far easier, similar language, similar customs, similar food, no BNP/Britain First etc. It's our duty to take some of the refugees but not at the cost of our own people in need. We should accept the 15,000 and also pressure the Arab world to do their part too." | |||
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"OK if we take in all the refugees when does it stop, What happens when/if IS or a dictatorship takes over another country, Like I said before it's only a short term solution " I always consider how I would like other people to treat me if I suddenly became a refugee from the UK - and it's possible that could happen. I conclude that I would like to be treated with dignity and respect. And that I'd like people to understand that I might have ideas about my own wellbeing rather than being forced to go somewhere that will only prolong my suffering. I'd like to think that other countries wouldn't think 'We can't take these Brits, when will it stop?'. Instead they would think 'These beautiful people need our help. We have to help them.' | |||
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"It seems to me that we are bungling an extremely good opportunity to show people on the fence in said countries how reasonable we are and that we are in fact not the enemy. Plus we can afford it and we have the space. If we don't, then we'll be a nation of dickheads. It'd be shameful to turn away people in need. agree, but how do we differentiate between people in need and people in greed, ie true refugees or those just wishing to move here to abuse our welfare. Especially difficult when under pressure to rush. By asking them? By checking where they're emigrating from? I'm pretty sure if passport control can stop me to check my bag and how much money I have, the resources are there to check where people are coming from. what.... they come with ID badges..? Passports..... papers... ? They are arriving by boat, walked hundreds of miles, etc etc, they can claim to be anyone from anywhere, who will know. those at Calais now are not carrying ID... they are aiming to get here any way possible and be absorbed without papers etc. Its a very difficult call for whoever has to decide who stays and who goes. No they're not, hardly any are at the Calais border. And yeh, temporary papers are granted. i must be watching different news reports then. Ive been watching the one that shows hundreds upon hundreds of people ( yes people) in camps near the euro tunnel entrance trying desperately to get over to he UK. Illegally, without papers, using weapons etc You're defo not talking about the same refugees. Those are mainly people who just want to come to the UK, not people being forced out of war torn countries for safety. which is exactly my point. How do you differentiate. If none carry any ID etc, how do we know that we are not giving refuge and shelter to an extremist, or a migrant, rather than a refugee. We need to ensure that the refugees we take are from camps and areprocessed properly so that kf their family comes through they can be traced and reunited, not just bring them in and dispurse them randomly. Im not arguing that we shouldnt act, just that we dont act that quickly that it becomes an easy way for those with other motives can slip through. I'm not sure you're really arguing for providing refuge, having said they could be extremists. I can't be bothered continuing after you saying that cos it seems pretty racist. (Not all brown people are terrorists, you don't need to be scared)." ha ha, and the racist card appears. Youre not sure of my argument so you say its racist classic. I too will leave this to rest. But for a totally different reason Have a lovely day x | |||
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"OK if we take in all the refugees when does it stop, What happens when/if IS or a dictatorship takes over another country, Like I said before it's only a short term solution I always consider how I would like other people to treat me if I suddenly became a refugee from the UK - and it's possible that could happen." Why do you think it's possible that you could become a refugee from the UK? | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. why aren't the big, rich Arab states being pressured to accept refugees? Surely social integration would be easier for a start. I posted earlier about Jordan. They've got 1.5million when their population is 6m. You ought to check first. So Jordan has taken 1.5m? What about the other Arab states? Surely they could do more." Labanon has over a million Syrian refugees, heard on R4 that one of the main camps is now its 4th biggest city.. Turkey has 1.7 million, though how many are in transit is not known.. 15,000 if that is the end figure is easily absorbed in this country.. we have in the past taken many more than that when we had far fewer people and they integrated etc.. i would think in ten years, maybe 20 many will have gone back though some will settle here.. | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. why aren't the big, rich Arab states being pressured to accept refugees? Surely social integration would be easier for a start. I posted earlier about Jordan. They've got 1.5million when their population is 6m. You ought to check first. So Jordan has taken 1.5m? What about the other Arab states? Surely they could do more. Seems like you just want others to take them instead. 1.5m is a LOT of refugees and you've just disregarded it pretty quickly. It is a lot, yes. I'm not disregarding it at all. I'm just wondering why the other Arab states aren't doing anything more to help. They have the finances and in the most part the infrastructure to support nearly all of the refugees. Your focus is on the wrong part in that case. "Why can't they do it?" doesn't solve the problem, it just makes it someone else's whilst no one gets help. I didn't write "why can't they do it?". I wrote "why can't they do more?" There's a difference. Jordan taking 1.5m is a great start but what about the other Arab states? I'm thinking I would be far easier for the refugees for a start, social integration would be far easier, similar language, similar customs, similar food, no BNP/Britain First etc. It's our duty to take some of the refugees but not at the cost of our own people in need. We should accept the 15,000 and also pressure the Arab world to do their part too." You know Syria was suspended from and sanctioned by the Arab League for being too western/American in its approach? How do you come to the conclusion it'll be easier to integrate there than here, when even they decided they're more western? | |||
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"It seems to me that we are bungling an extremely good opportunity to show people on the fence in said countries how reasonable we are and that we are in fact not the enemy. Plus we can afford it and we have the space. If we don't, then we'll be a nation of dickheads. It'd be shameful to turn away people in need. agree, but how do we differentiate between people in need and people in greed, ie true refugees or those just wishing to move here to abuse our welfare. Especially difficult when under pressure to rush. By asking them? By checking where they're emigrating from? I'm pretty sure if passport control can stop me to check my bag and how much money I have, the resources are there to check where people are coming from. what.... they come with ID badges..? Passports..... papers... ? They are arriving by boat, walked hundreds of miles, etc etc, they can claim to be anyone from anywhere, who will know. those at Calais now are not carrying ID... they are aiming to get here any way possible and be absorbed without papers etc. Its a very difficult call for whoever has to decide who stays and who goes. No they're not, hardly any are at the Calais border. And yeh, temporary papers are granted. i must be watching different news reports then. Ive been watching the one that shows hundreds upon hundreds of people ( yes people) in camps near the euro tunnel entrance trying desperately to get over to he UK. Illegally, without papers, using weapons etc You're defo not talking about the same refugees. Those are mainly people who just want to come to the UK, not people being forced out of war torn countries for safety. which is exactly my point. How do you differentiate. If none carry any ID etc, how do we know that we are not giving refuge and shelter to an extremist, or a migrant, rather than a refugee. We need to ensure that the refugees we take are from camps and areprocessed properly so that kf their family comes through they can be traced and reunited, not just bring them in and dispurse them randomly. Im not arguing that we shouldnt act, just that we dont act that quickly that it becomes an easy way for those with other motives can slip through. I'm not sure you're really arguing for providing refuge, having said they could be extremists. I can't be bothered continuing after you saying that cos it seems pretty racist. (Not all brown people are terrorists, you don't need to be scared). ha ha, and the racist card appears. Youre not sure of my argument so you say its racist classic. I too will leave this to rest. But for a totally different reason Have a lovely day x" Yes - because saying "they could be extremists!" is a well thought out argument and definitely not racist. | |||
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" I'm thinking I would be far easier for the refugees for a start, social integration would be far easier, similar language, similar customs, similar food, no BNP/Britain First etc" Social integration - most refugees try really hard to integrate. Some don't, and they're basically just like me - antisocial. Nobody calls me out on that because I'm a Brit though. Similar Language - most refugees looking to settle in Britain can already speak good English. Those that speak German usually look to settle in Germany. Ditto for France. Language isn't a problem though. I've spent time in other countries and with other people without a word of common language. You can always make yourself understood. (I fed myself in France for a week where they all refused to speak English to me, and I didn't speak French beyond phrase-book basics...) Similar Customs - Which customs? Going to church? Celebrating religious holidays? We do those things here in the UK, and they do those things over there. I can't think of any 'UK Specific' customs that people wouldn't understand other than Morris Dancers. Similar Food - I can whip up most cuisines from food grown on an allotment here in the UK. Spices I can get hold of easily from wholefood shops or supermarkets. BNP/Britain First - Drown the fuckers. No, not the refugees, the racist bigots that insist on fearmongering and spreading false information. | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. I don't know any of the stats. But is it theoretically better to prolong the life of 10 brits who have had good Western lives by a few months? Or to save a thousand refugees and help them have a life?" No-one asks to die from cancer, and no-one asks to be made homeless through war or persecution. That's a ridiculous analogy. | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. why aren't the big, rich Arab states being pressured to accept refugees? Surely social integration would be easier for a start. I posted earlier about Jordan. They've got 1.5million when their population is 6m. You ought to check first. So Jordan has taken 1.5m? What about the other Arab states? Surely they could do more. Seems like you just want others to take them instead. 1.5m is a LOT of refugees and you've just disregarded it pretty quickly. It is a lot, yes. I'm not disregarding it at all. I'm just wondering why the other Arab states aren't doing anything more to help. They have the finances and in the most part the infrastructure to support nearly all of the refugees. Your focus is on the wrong part in that case. "Why can't they do it?" doesn't solve the problem, it just makes it someone else's whilst no one gets help. I didn't write "why can't they do it?". I wrote "why can't they do more?" There's a difference. Jordan taking 1.5m is a great start but what about the other Arab states? I'm thinking I would be far easier for the refugees for a start, social integration would be far easier, similar language, similar customs, similar food, no BNP/Britain First etc. It's our duty to take some of the refugees but not at the cost of our own people in need. We should accept the 15,000 and also pressure the Arab world to do their part too. You know Syria was suspended from and sanctioned by the Arab League for being too western/American in its approach? How do you come to the conclusion it'll be easier to integrate there than here, when even they decided they're more western?" I've been to Syria, it was no more western than Dubai is currently. wrote the reasons why integration would be easier. Besides, if they're refugees surely they wouldn't mind too much as long as they're safe. | |||
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"What about Churches? they could be converted into homes for people, and sell the stuff inside to buy food etc, isn't that what was preached by a certain chap two thousand years ago.. Churches are places of worship and have existed for a very long time . Do you actually either attend or donate to any churches ?. I would not want a church sold in order to help so called refugees. " but its ok for a church to be sold to be a pub or pizza restaurant..? a church is but a building, some of the ostentatiousness of some places of worship is staggering in relation to that which some of their flock reside in but that's only an observation as i dont attend.. | |||
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"OK if we take in all the refugees when does it stop, What happens when/if IS or a dictatorship takes over another country, Like I said before it's only a short term solution I always consider how I would like other people to treat me if I suddenly became a refugee from the UK - and it's possible that could happen. Why do you think it's possible that you could become a refugee from the UK?" Because things can change very quickly. The world is an inherently unstable place. Many countries have the ability to blat us our of existence if they wanted to. We could easily see a dictator come into power if people continue to be apathetic towards voting and political protest. I don't believe that I am safe forever in this country. I don't believe that things can't change. So I believe in treating other people with kindness and compassion, so that when I am in need, they will treat me the same way too. | |||
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"OK if we take in all the refugees when does it stop, What happens when/if IS or a dictatorship takes over another country, Like I said before it's only a short term solution I always consider how I would like other people to treat me if I suddenly became a refugee from the UK - and it's possible that could happen. I conclude that I would like to be treated with dignity and respect. And that I'd like people to understand that I might have ideas about my own wellbeing rather than being forced to go somewhere that will only prolong my suffering. I'd like to think that other countries wouldn't think 'We can't take these Brits, when will it stop?'. Instead they would think 'These beautiful people need our help. We have to help them.'" When I say when will it stop I just mean, Let's say Turkey or Iran are the next country to be taken over and they all start heading to the UK, They both have similar population us, Excepting them is just the short term solution when does it stop! Or what does the west have to do so they don't have to flee their homeland | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. I don't know any of the stats. But is it theoretically better to prolong the life of 10 brits who have had good Western lives by a few months? Or to save a thousand refugees and help them have a life? No-one asks to die from cancer, and no-one asks to be made homeless through war or persecution. That's a ridiculous analogy. " It is entirely ridiculous - of course. But cancer is an emotive subject - more so than refugees. And sometimes it's important to remember that money can do more 'good' in one place than in others. | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. why aren't the big, rich Arab states being pressured to accept refugees? Surely social integration would be easier for a start. I posted earlier about Jordan. They've got 1.5million when their population is 6m. You ought to check first. So Jordan has taken 1.5m? What about the other Arab states? Surely they could do more. Seems like you just want others to take them instead. 1.5m is a LOT of refugees and you've just disregarded it pretty quickly. It is a lot, yes. I'm not disregarding it at all. I'm just wondering why the other Arab states aren't doing anything more to help. They have the finances and in the most part the infrastructure to support nearly all of the refugees. Your focus is on the wrong part in that case. "Why can't they do it?" doesn't solve the problem, it just makes it someone else's whilst no one gets help. I didn't write "why can't they do it?". I wrote "why can't they do more?" There's a difference. Jordan taking 1.5m is a great start but what about the other Arab states? I'm thinking I would be far easier for the refugees for a start, social integration would be far easier, similar language, similar customs, similar food, no BNP/Britain First etc. It's our duty to take some of the refugees but not at the cost of our own people in need. We should accept the 15,000 and also pressure the Arab world to do their part too. You know Syria was suspended from and sanctioned by the Arab League for being too western/American in its approach? How do you come to the conclusion it'll be easier to integrate there than here, when even they decided they're more western? I've been to Syria, it was no more western than Dubai is currently. wrote the reasons why integration would be easier. Besides, if they're refugees surely they wouldn't mind too much as long as they're safe." I don't think you understand the political implications. Just cos they speak Arabic, doesn't mean they would integrate seamlessly. Also, "they wouldn't mind"? Really sounds like you don't particularly care as long as it's not here. We have an obligation to take care of others, expecting others to sort it out is lazy thinking. | |||
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"It seems to me that we are bungling an extremely good opportunity to show people on the fence in said countries how reasonable we are and that we are in fact not the enemy. Plus we can afford it and we have the space. If we don't, then we'll be a nation of dickheads. It'd be shameful to turn away people in need. agree, but how do we differentiate between people in need and people in greed, ie true refugees or those just wishing to move here to abuse our welfare. Especially difficult when under pressure to rush. By asking them? By checking where they're emigrating from? I'm pretty sure if passport control can stop me to check my bag and how much money I have, the resources are there to check where people are coming from. what.... they come with ID badges..? Passports..... papers... ? They are arriving by boat, walked hundreds of miles, etc etc, they can claim to be anyone from anywhere, who will know. those at Calais now are not carrying ID... they are aiming to get here any way possible and be absorbed without papers etc. Its a very difficult call for whoever has to decide who stays and who goes. No they're not, hardly any are at the Calais border. And yeh, temporary papers are granted. i must be watching different news reports then. Ive been watching the one that shows hundreds upon hundreds of people ( yes people) in camps near the euro tunnel entrance trying desperately to get over to he UK. Illegally, without papers, using weapons etc You're defo not talking about the same refugees. Those are mainly people who just want to come to the UK, not people being forced out of war torn countries for safety. which is exactly my point. How do you differentiate. If none carry any ID etc, how do we know that we are not giving refuge and shelter to an extremist, or a migrant, rather than a refugee. We need to ensure that the refugees we take are from camps and areprocessed properly so that kf their family comes through they can be traced and reunited, not just bring them in and dispurse them randomly. Im not arguing that we shouldnt act, just that we dont act that quickly that it becomes an easy way for those with other motives can slip through. I'm not sure you're really arguing for providing refuge, having said they could be extremists. I can't be bothered continuing after you saying that cos it seems pretty racist. (Not all brown people are terrorists, you don't need to be scared). ha ha, and the racist card appears. Youre not sure of my argument so you say its racist classic. I too will leave this to rest. But for a totally different reason Have a lovely day x Yes - because saying "they could be extremists!" is a well thought out argument and definitely not racist. "Anyone entering the country could be an extremist.... that is not racist its fact. i will leave it there,. | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. why aren't the big, rich Arab states being pressured to accept refugees? Surely social integration would be easier for a start. I posted earlier about Jordan. They've got 1.5million when their population is 6m. You ought to check first. So Jordan has taken 1.5m? What about the other Arab states? Surely they could do more. Seems like you just want others to take them instead. 1.5m is a LOT of refugees and you've just disregarded it pretty quickly. It is a lot, yes. I'm not disregarding it at all. I'm just wondering why the other Arab states aren't doing anything more to help. They have the finances and in the most part the infrastructure to support nearly all of the refugees. Your focus is on the wrong part in that case. "Why can't they do it?" doesn't solve the problem, it just makes it someone else's whilst no one gets help. I didn't write "why can't they do it?". I wrote "why can't they do more?" There's a difference. Jordan taking 1.5m is a great start but what about the other Arab states? I'm thinking I would be far easier for the refugees for a start, social integration would be far easier, similar language, similar customs, similar food, no BNP/Britain First etc. It's our duty to take some of the refugees but not at the cost of our own people in need. We should accept the 15,000 and also pressure the Arab world to do their part too. You know Syria was suspended from and sanctioned by the Arab League for being too western/American in its approach? How do you come to the conclusion it'll be easier to integrate there than here, when even they decided they're more western? I've been to Syria, it was no more western than Dubai is currently. wrote the reasons why integration would be easier. Besides, if they're refugees surely they wouldn't mind too much as long as they're safe. I don't think you understand the political implications. Just cos they speak Arabic, doesn't mean they would integrate seamlessly. Also, "they wouldn't mind"? Really sounds like you don't particularly care as long as it's not here. We have an obligation to take care of others, expecting others to sort it out is lazy thinking. " Where did I write "seamlessly'? You're twisting my words, I wrote 'easier'. I do care, I've done a lot of humanitarian work in the past and one thing is clear, it's always the Europeans that seem to shoulder the largest burden in these crises. I'm not, and never have said that we shouldn't be doing something but we should insist that the powerful Arab states do their part too. | |||
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"We struggle with our own population we are full no more please !" We are not 'full' at all. That's just tory propaganda made up to instill fear. There is plenty of room, plenty of empty houses and, if we stopped bailing fat bankers out, plenty of money with which to demonstrate our humanity and caring. I hope you never find yourself in the position of fearing for your own or someone you love's life | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. why aren't the big, rich Arab states being pressured to accept refugees? Surely social integration would be easier for a start. I posted earlier about Jordan. They've got 1.5million when their population is 6m. You ought to check first. So Jordan has taken 1.5m? What about the other Arab states? Surely they could do more. Seems like you just want others to take them instead. 1.5m is a LOT of refugees and you've just disregarded it pretty quickly. It is a lot, yes. I'm not disregarding it at all. I'm just wondering why the other Arab states aren't doing anything more to help. They have the finances and in the most part the infrastructure to support nearly all of the refugees. Your focus is on the wrong part in that case. "Why can't they do it?" doesn't solve the problem, it just makes it someone else's whilst no one gets help. I didn't write "why can't they do it?". I wrote "why can't they do more?" There's a difference. Jordan taking 1.5m is a great start but what about the other Arab states? I'm thinking I would be far easier for the refugees for a start, social integration would be far easier, similar language, similar customs, similar food, no BNP/Britain First etc. It's our duty to take some of the refugees but not at the cost of our own people in need. We should accept the 15,000 and also pressure the Arab world to do their part too. You know Syria was suspended from and sanctioned by the Arab League for being too western/American in its approach? How do you come to the conclusion it'll be easier to integrate there than here, when even they decided they're more western? I've been to Syria, it was no more western than Dubai is currently. wrote the reasons why integration would be easier. Besides, if they're refugees surely they wouldn't mind too much as long as they're safe. I don't think you understand the political implications. Just cos they speak Arabic, doesn't mean they would integrate seamlessly. Also, "they wouldn't mind"? Really sounds like you don't particularly care as long as it's not here. We have an obligation to take care of others, expecting others to sort it out is lazy thinking. Where did I write "seamlessly'? You're twisting my words, I wrote 'easier'. I do care, I've done a lot of humanitarian work in the past and one thing is clear, it's always the Europeans that seem to shoulder the largest burden in these crises. I'm not, and never have said that we shouldn't be doing something but we should insist that the powerful Arab states do their part too." I wasn't quoting you. So what? Why does it even matter? The important part is that people need help, and you're saying someone else should take care of it. Instead of us doing it, you want them to go somewhere where international relations are at a historical low point - it just doesn't make sense. | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. why aren't the big, rich Arab states being pressured to accept refugees? Surely social integration would be easier for a start. I posted earlier about Jordan. They've got 1.5million when their population is 6m. You ought to check first. So Jordan has taken 1.5m? What about the other Arab states? Surely they could do more. Seems like you just want others to take them instead. 1.5m is a LOT of refugees and you've just disregarded it pretty quickly. It is a lot, yes. I'm not disregarding it at all. I'm just wondering why the other Arab states aren't doing anything more to help. They have the finances and in the most part the infrastructure to support nearly all of the refugees. Your focus is on the wrong part in that case. "Why can't they do it?" doesn't solve the problem, it just makes it someone else's whilst no one gets help. I didn't write "why can't they do it?". I wrote "why can't they do more?" There's a difference. Jordan taking 1.5m is a great start but what about the other Arab states? I'm thinking I would be far easier for the refugees for a start, social integration would be far easier, similar language, similar customs, similar food, no BNP/Britain First etc. It's our duty to take some of the refugees but not at the cost of our own people in need. We should accept the 15,000 and also pressure the Arab world to do their part too. You know Syria was suspended from and sanctioned by the Arab League for being too western/American in its approach? How do you come to the conclusion it'll be easier to integrate there than here, when even they decided they're more western? I've been to Syria, it was no more western than Dubai is currently. wrote the reasons why integration would be easier. Besides, if they're refugees surely they wouldn't mind too much as long as they're safe. I don't think you understand the political implications. Just cos they speak Arabic, doesn't mean they would integrate seamlessly. Also, "they wouldn't mind"? Really sounds like you don't particularly care as long as it's not here. We have an obligation to take care of others, expecting others to sort it out is lazy thinking. Where did I write "seamlessly'? You're twisting my words, I wrote 'easier'. I do care, I've done a lot of humanitarian work in the past and one thing is clear, it's always the Europeans that seem to shoulder the largest burden in these crises. I'm not, and never have said that we shouldn't be doing something but we should insist that the powerful Arab states do their part too. I wasn't quoting you. So what? Why does it even matter? The important part is that people need help, and you're saying someone else should take care of it. Instead of us doing it, you want them to go somewhere where international relations are at a historical low point - it just doesn't make sense. " Once again you've twisted my words. I said why can't they do more to help. Some Arab states are doing NOTHING! I've not seen the figures but also, what are the US, Canada and Australia doing? | |||
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"We struggle with our own population we are full no more please ! We are not 'full' at all. That's just tory propaganda made up to instill fear. There is plenty of room, plenty of empty houses and, if we stopped bailing fat bankers out, plenty of money with which to demonstrate our humanity and caring. I hope you never find yourself in the position of fearing for your own or someone you love's life " | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. why aren't the big, rich Arab states being pressured to accept refugees? Surely social integration would be easier for a start. I posted earlier about Jordan. They've got 1.5million when their population is 6m. You ought to check first. So Jordan has taken 1.5m? What about the other Arab states? Surely they could do more. Seems like you just want others to take them instead. 1.5m is a LOT of refugees and you've just disregarded it pretty quickly. It is a lot, yes. I'm not disregarding it at all. I'm just wondering why the other Arab states aren't doing anything more to help. They have the finances and in the most part the infrastructure to support nearly all of the refugees. Your focus is on the wrong part in that case. "Why can't they do it?" doesn't solve the problem, it just makes it someone else's whilst no one gets help. I didn't write "why can't they do it?". I wrote "why can't they do more?" There's a difference. Jordan taking 1.5m is a great start but what about the other Arab states? I'm thinking I would be far easier for the refugees for a start, social integration would be far easier, similar language, similar customs, similar food, no BNP/Britain First etc. It's our duty to take some of the refugees but not at the cost of our own people in need. We should accept the 15,000 and also pressure the Arab world to do their part too. You know Syria was suspended from and sanctioned by the Arab League for being too western/American in its approach? How do you come to the conclusion it'll be easier to integrate there than here, when even they decided they're more western? I've been to Syria, it was no more western than Dubai is currently. wrote the reasons why integration would be easier. Besides, if they're refugees surely they wouldn't mind too much as long as they're safe. I don't think you understand the political implications. Just cos they speak Arabic, doesn't mean they would integrate seamlessly. Also, "they wouldn't mind"? Really sounds like you don't particularly care as long as it's not here. We have an obligation to take care of others, expecting others to sort it out is lazy thinking. Where did I write "seamlessly'? You're twisting my words, I wrote 'easier'. I do care, I've done a lot of humanitarian work in the past and one thing is clear, it's always the Europeans that seem to shoulder the largest burden in these crises. I'm not, and never have said that we shouldn't be doing something but we should insist that the powerful Arab states do their part too. I wasn't quoting you. So what? Why does it even matter? The important part is that people need help, and you're saying someone else should take care of it. Instead of us doing it, you want them to go somewhere where international relations are at a historical low point - it just doesn't make sense. Once again you've twisted my words. I said why can't they do more to help. Some Arab states are doing NOTHING! I've not seen the figures but also, what are the US, Canada and Australia doing?" I dunno how that's twisting your words. You said previously you'd rather 10 Brits alive and some other country sort out the refugees. If your sentiment isn't that you want another country dealing with it, perhaps you need to look at what you're saying? | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. why aren't the big, rich Arab states being pressured to accept refugees? Surely social integration would be easier for a start. I posted earlier about Jordan. They've got 1.5million when their population is 6m. You ought to check first. So Jordan has taken 1.5m? What about the other Arab states? Surely they could do more. Seems like you just want others to take them instead. 1.5m is a LOT of refugees and you've just disregarded it pretty quickly. It is a lot, yes. I'm not disregarding it at all. I'm just wondering why the other Arab states aren't doing anything more to help. They have the finances and in the most part the infrastructure to support nearly all of the refugees. Your focus is on the wrong part in that case. "Why can't they do it?" doesn't solve the problem, it just makes it someone else's whilst no one gets help. I didn't write "why can't they do it?". I wrote "why can't they do more?" There's a difference. Jordan taking 1.5m is a great start but what about the other Arab states? I'm thinking I would be far easier for the refugees for a start, social integration would be far easier, similar language, similar customs, similar food, no BNP/Britain First etc. It's our duty to take some of the refugees but not at the cost of our own people in need. We should accept the 15,000 and also pressure the Arab world to do their part too. You know Syria was suspended from and sanctioned by the Arab League for being too western/American in its approach? How do you come to the conclusion it'll be easier to integrate there than here, when even they decided they're more western? I've been to Syria, it was no more western than Dubai is currently. wrote the reasons why integration would be easier. Besides, if they're refugees surely they wouldn't mind too much as long as they're safe. I don't think you understand the political implications. Just cos they speak Arabic, doesn't mean they would integrate seamlessly. Also, "they wouldn't mind"? Really sounds like you don't particularly care as long as it's not here. We have an obligation to take care of others, expecting others to sort it out is lazy thinking. Where did I write "seamlessly'? You're twisting my words, I wrote 'easier'. I do care, I've done a lot of humanitarian work in the past and one thing is clear, it's always the Europeans that seem to shoulder the largest burden in these crises. I'm not, and never have said that we shouldn't be doing something but we should insist that the powerful Arab states do their part too. I wasn't quoting you. So what? Why does it even matter? The important part is that people need help, and you're saying someone else should take care of it. Instead of us doing it, you want them to go somewhere where international relations are at a historical low point - it just doesn't make sense. Once again you've twisted my words. I said why can't they do more to help. Some Arab states are doing NOTHING! I've not seen the figures but also, what are the US, Canada and Australia doing? I dunno how that's twisting your words. You said previously you'd rather 10 Brits alive and some other country sort out the refugees. If your sentiment isn't that you want another country dealing with it, perhaps you need to look at what you're saying?" U.S. Have 1,500 Syrians and Australia have 16,750 btw b | |||
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"We have done more than our fair share in world crisis of past and present and when it detracts from the care of our own then think the prioritys need looking at " I think about this sometimes. About how hard life can be. About what it's like to not have a job, to not have health insurance (when I was in the US), to not be able to afford the bus so I end up walking everywhere. And I feel bad for myself. Then I think about the hardships those people coming over here on death ships have to face. I think about what it must be like running from armed men, hiding your children from devastation, leaving your family behind because you need to go off and find money. We don't know real hardship. Most of the people in the west are doing ok. Not everyone, but most. And it isn't a zero sum game. If the rules of the game were different we'd be able to sort out those in our own countries as well as help those abroad. We can do more. We put plenty of effort into starting wars there, why can't we do the same for good causes? -Courtney | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. why aren't the big, rich Arab states being pressured to accept refugees? Surely social integration would be easier for a start. I posted earlier about Jordan. They've got 1.5million when their population is 6m. You ought to check first. So Jordan has taken 1.5m? What about the other Arab states? Surely they could do more. Seems like you just want others to take them instead. 1.5m is a LOT of refugees and you've just disregarded it pretty quickly. It is a lot, yes. I'm not disregarding it at all. I'm just wondering why the other Arab states aren't doing anything more to help. They have the finances and in the most part the infrastructure to support nearly all of the refugees. Your focus is on the wrong part in that case. "Why can't they do it?" doesn't solve the problem, it just makes it someone else's whilst no one gets help. I didn't write "why can't they do it?". I wrote "why can't they do more?" There's a difference. Jordan taking 1.5m is a great start but what about the other Arab states? I'm thinking I would be far easier for the refugees for a start, social integration would be far easier, similar language, similar customs, similar food, no BNP/Britain First etc. It's our duty to take some of the refugees but not at the cost of our own people in need. We should accept the 15,000 and also pressure the Arab world to do their part too. You know Syria was suspended from and sanctioned by the Arab League for being too western/American in its approach? How do you come to the conclusion it'll be easier to integrate there than here, when even they decided they're more western? I've been to Syria, it was no more western than Dubai is currently. wrote the reasons why integration would be easier. Besides, if they're refugees surely they wouldn't mind too much as long as they're safe. I don't think you understand the political implications. Just cos they speak Arabic, doesn't mean they would integrate seamlessly. Also, "they wouldn't mind"? Really sounds like you don't particularly care as long as it's not here. We have an obligation to take care of others, expecting others to sort it out is lazy thinking. Where did I write "seamlessly'? You're twisting my words, I wrote 'easier'. I do care, I've done a lot of humanitarian work in the past and one thing is clear, it's always the Europeans that seem to shoulder the largest burden in these crises. I'm not, and never have said that we shouldn't be doing something but we should insist that the powerful Arab states do their part too. I wasn't quoting you. So what? Why does it even matter? The important part is that people need help, and you're saying someone else should take care of it. Instead of us doing it, you want them to go somewhere where international relations are at a historical low point - it just doesn't make sense. Once again you've twisted my words. I said why can't they do more to help. Some Arab states are doing NOTHING! I've not seen the figures but also, what are the US, Canada and Australia doing? I dunno how that's twisting your words. You said previously you'd rather 10 Brits alive and some other country sort out the refugees. If your sentiment isn't that you want another country dealing with it, perhaps you need to look at what you're saying?" That was a reply to something utterly ridiculous. Do you feel it's right that life saving treatments are removed from the NHS due to budget cuts whilst countries such as Saudi Arabia could do more to help eliviate the humanitarian crisis stand by and do almost nothing? Our social care budgets for the disabled and vulnerable have been absolutely mauled recently too. In many cases leaving people at a very high risk, not to mention the people who work in that sector being made redundant, if they can't find alternative employment they're at the mercy of the benefits system which can't continue the way it is. I come from a family of refugees so it's not like I don't empathise, I really do but there must be an alternative if other countries accept some of the burden. | |||
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"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. why aren't the big, rich Arab states being pressured to accept refugees? Surely social integration would be easier for a start. I posted earlier about Jordan. They've got 1.5million when their population is 6m. You ought to check first. So Jordan has taken 1.5m? What about the other Arab states? Surely they could do more. Seems like you just want others to take them instead. 1.5m is a LOT of refugees and you've just disregarded it pretty quickly. It is a lot, yes. I'm not disregarding it at all. I'm just wondering why the other Arab states aren't doing anything more to help. They have the finances and in the most part the infrastructure to support nearly all of the refugees. Your focus is on the wrong part in that case. "Why can't they do it?" doesn't solve the problem, it just makes it someone else's whilst no one gets help. I didn't write "why can't they do it?". I wrote "why can't they do more?" There's a difference. Jordan taking 1.5m is a great start but what about the other Arab states? I'm thinking I would be far easier for the refugees for a start, social integration would be far easier, similar language, similar customs, similar food, no BNP/Britain First etc. It's our duty to take some of the refugees but not at the cost of our own people in need. We should accept the 15,000 and also pressure the Arab world to do their part too. You know Syria was suspended from and sanctioned by the Arab League for being too western/American in its approach? How do you come to the conclusion it'll be easier to integrate there than here, when even they decided they're more western? I've been to Syria, it was no more western than Dubai is currently. wrote the reasons why integration would be easier. Besides, if they're refugees surely they wouldn't mind too much as long as they're safe. I don't think you understand the political implications. Just cos they speak Arabic, doesn't mean they would integrate seamlessly. Also, "they wouldn't mind"? Really sounds like you don't particularly care as long as it's not here. We have an obligation to take care of others, expecting others to sort it out is lazy thinking. Where did I write "seamlessly'? You're twisting my words, I wrote 'easier'. I do care, I've done a lot of humanitarian work in the past and one thing is clear, it's always the Europeans that seem to shoulder the largest burden in these crises. I'm not, and never have said that we shouldn't be doing something but we should insist that the powerful Arab states do their part too. I wasn't quoting you. So what? Why does it even matter? The important part is that people need help, and you're saying someone else should take care of it. Instead of us doing it, you want them to go somewhere where international relations are at a historical low point - it just doesn't make sense. Once again you've twisted my words. I said why can't they do more to help. Some Arab states are doing NOTHING! I've not seen the figures but also, what are the US, Canada and Australia doing? I dunno how that's twisting your words. You said previously you'd rather 10 Brits alive and some other country sort out the refugees. If your sentiment isn't that you want another country dealing with it, perhaps you need to look at what you're saying? U.S. Have 1,500 Syrians and Australia have 16,750 btw b" So the US are doing next to nothing too by the sounds of it. | |||
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" So the US are doing next to nothing too by the sounds of it." You're right. And its wrong of them. Do you do bad things because other do them? No. The US should be doing more. It holds a large portion of the responsibily for this mess. It doesn't, however, excuse any other country from doing the right thing. -Courtney | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's commendable that were accepting 15,000 refugees. Let's not forget though, funding for 23 cancer drugs has just been cut on the NHS. why aren't the big, rich Arab states being pressured to accept refugees? Surely social integration would be easier for a start. I posted earlier about Jordan. They've got 1.5million when their population is 6m. You ought to check first. So Jordan has taken 1.5m? What about the other Arab states? Surely they could do more. Seems like you just want others to take them instead. 1.5m is a LOT of refugees and you've just disregarded it pretty quickly. It is a lot, yes. I'm not disregarding it at all. I'm just wondering why the other Arab states aren't doing anything more to help. They have the finances and in the most part the infrastructure to support nearly all of the refugees. Your focus is on the wrong part in that case. "Why can't they do it?" doesn't solve the problem, it just makes it someone else's whilst no one gets help. I didn't write "why can't they do it?". I wrote "why can't they do more?" There's a difference. Jordan taking 1.5m is a great start but what about the other Arab states? I'm thinking I would be far easier for the refugees for a start, social integration would be far easier, similar language, similar customs, similar food, no BNP/Britain First etc. It's our duty to take some of the refugees but not at the cost of our own people in need. We should accept the 15,000 and also pressure the Arab world to do their part too. You know Syria was suspended from and sanctioned by the Arab League for being too western/American in its approach? How do you come to the conclusion it'll be easier to integrate there than here, when even they decided they're more western? I've been to Syria, it was no more western than Dubai is currently. wrote the reasons why integration would be easier. Besides, if they're refugees surely they wouldn't mind too much as long as they're safe. I don't think you understand the political implications. Just cos they speak Arabic, doesn't mean they would integrate seamlessly. Also, "they wouldn't mind"? Really sounds like you don't particularly care as long as it's not here. We have an obligation to take care of others, expecting others to sort it out is lazy thinking. Where did I write "seamlessly'? You're twisting my words, I wrote 'easier'. I do care, I've done a lot of humanitarian work in the past and one thing is clear, it's always the Europeans that seem to shoulder the largest burden in these crises. I'm not, and never have said that we shouldn't be doing something but we should insist that the powerful Arab states do their part too. I wasn't quoting you. So what? Why does it even matter? The important part is that people need help, and you're saying someone else should take care of it. Instead of us doing it, you want them to go somewhere where international relations are at a historical low point - it just doesn't make sense. Once again you've twisted my words. I said why can't they do more to help. Some Arab states are doing NOTHING! I've not seen the figures but also, what are the US, Canada and Australia doing? I dunno how that's twisting your words. You said previously you'd rather 10 Brits alive and some other country sort out the refugees. If your sentiment isn't that you want another country dealing with it, perhaps you need to look at what you're saying? That was a reply to something utterly ridiculous. Do you feel it's right that life saving treatments are removed from the NHS due to budget cuts whilst countries such as Saudi Arabia could do more to help eliviate the humanitarian crisis stand by and do almost nothing? Our social care budgets for the disabled and vulnerable have been absolutely mauled recently too. In many cases leaving people at a very high risk, not to mention the people who work in that sector being made redundant, if they can't find alternative employment they're at the mercy of the benefits system which can't continue the way it is. I come from a family of refugees so it's not like I don't empathise, I really do but there must be an alternative if other countries accept some of the burden." So you should understand why it's important to not turn away those in desperate need. | |||
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"I wonder how many of the politicians, churchmen or celebrities who are insisting we must take these people in will actually open the doors of their homes to them. Beyond Bob Geldof I would think very few, if any. It is very easy to wrap oneself in the feel good glow of being compassionate and caring when it is at someone else's expense. When it lands on ones own doorstep compassion usually gets very quickly kicked into the long grass. To quote William Blake. ‘He who would do good to another must do it in minute particulars. General good is the plea of the scoundrel, hypocrite and flatterer.’ I think quite a few politicians and "Slebs" should take note of those words. " | |||
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"It seems to me that we are bungling an extremely good opportunity to show people on the fence in said countries how reasonable we are and that we are in fact not the enemy. Plus we can afford it and we have the space. If we don't, then we'll be a nation of dickheads. It'd be shameful to turn away people in need. agree, but how do we differentiate between people in need and people in greed, ie true refugees or those just wishing to move here to abuse our welfare. Especially difficult when under pressure to rush. By asking them? By checking where they're emigrating from? I'm pretty sure if passport control can stop me to check my bag and how much money I have, the resources are there to check where people are coming from. what.... they come with ID badges..? Passports..... papers... ? They are arriving by boat, walked hundreds of miles, etc etc, they can claim to be anyone from anywhere, who will know. those at Calais now are not carrying ID... they are aiming to get here any way possible and be absorbed without papers etc. Its a very difficult call for whoever has to decide who stays and who goes. No they're not, hardly any are at the Calais border. And yeh, temporary papers are granted. i must be watching different news reports then. Ive been watching the one that shows hundreds upon hundreds of people ( yes people) in camps near the euro tunnel entrance trying desperately to get over to he UK. Illegally, without papers, using weapons etc You're defo not talking about the same refugees. Those are mainly people who just want to come to the UK, not people being forced out of war torn countries for safety. which is exactly my point. How do you differentiate. If none carry any ID etc, how do we know that we are not giving refuge and shelter to an extremist, or a migrant, rather than a refugee. We need to ensure that the refugees we take are from camps and areprocessed properly so that kf their family comes through they can be traced and reunited, not just bring them in and dispurse them randomly. Im not arguing that we shouldnt act, just that we dont act that quickly that it becomes an easy way for those with other motives can slip through. I'm not sure you're really arguing for providing refuge, having said they could be extremists. I can't be bothered continuing after you saying that cos it seems pretty racist. (Not all brown people are terrorists, you don't need to be scared). ha ha, and the racist card appears. Youre not sure of my argument so you say its racist classic. I too will leave this to rest. But for a totally different reason Have a lovely day x Yes - because saying "they could be extremists!" is a well thought out argument and definitely not racist.
Anyone entering the country could be an extremist.... that is not racist its fact.
i will leave it there,. " you are correct in saying that and Isis have made it perfectly clear, (it's been reported in the news) that they intend to smuggle in terrorist sleeper cells amongst the asylum seekers and refugees. I think we have to be very careful. | |||
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