FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > help for the refugees
help for the refugees
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"So guys, how do we stop funding the wars?"  | |||
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"Sick of people putting foreigners before our own people, charity begins at home" Why, shouldn't people support who they wish? Plenty of people supporting nobody, and a fair few not helping themselves either? | |||
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"So guys, how do we stop funding the wars?" Hmmmmmm we are funding a war to fight those we have funded. What a crazy situation.  | |||
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"Sick of people putting foreigners before our own people, charity begins at home" I suspect that you are fortunate not to have met anyone fleeing, war, persecution and torture/rape. I have and as such agree totally with Mr ddc ... We can and should do more to help. Many of us really do not truly appreciate just how fortunate we are. Nita | |||
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"Sick of people putting foreigners before our own people, charity begins at home Why, shouldn't people support who they wish? Plenty of people supporting nobody, and a fair few not helping themselves either?" That is another really good point int the general discussion! In just the same way we do not generally dictate to people whether to support NSPCC or Red Cross or whaetver. | |||
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"So guys, how do we stop funding the wars? Hmmmmmm we are funding a war to fight those we have funded. What a crazy situation. " | |||
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"Sick of people putting foreigners before our own people, charity begins at home I suspect that you are fortunate not to have met anyone fleeing, war, persecution and torture/rape. I have and as such agree totally with Mr ddc ... We can and should do more to help. Many of us really do not truly appreciate just how fortunate we are. Nita" So very true! | |||
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"Sick of people putting foreigners before our own people, charity begins at home" How's the view from your ivory tower? Comfortable? Mrs  | |||
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"If we open the gates to them,where are we meant to house them.What I would like to know is why are they heading this way,why not to the rich Arab nations." I agree especially as there isnt enough housing for people in the Uk as it is | |||
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"So guys, how do we stop funding the wars? Hmmmmmm we are funding a war to fight those we have funded. What a crazy situation. "Wish somebody had the answers. I know what's needed but don't know how to do it. | |||
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"So guys, how do we stop funding the wars?" Banning fossil fuels so we don't need oil anymore? We got our shit together for Bosnia, we just don't seem to feel the same sense of urgency for Syria. We can't even decide which side we're for or against. | |||
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"So guys, how do we stop funding the wars? Hmmmmmm we are funding a war to fight those we have funded. What a crazy situation.
Wish somebody had the answers. I know what's needed but don't know how to do it." | |||
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"If we open the gates to them,where are we meant to house them.What I would like to know is why are they heading this way,why not to the rich Arab nations." There is plenty of property standing empty in this country, before you even start looking at holiday homes etc. | |||
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"If we open the gates to them,where are we meant to house them.What I would like to know is why are they heading this way,why not to the rich Arab nations. There is plenty of property standing empty in this country, before you even start looking at holiday homes etc. " Indeed. We all live under the same sky but we don't all have the same horizon! (not my saying but a famous, genuine politician) | |||
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"If we open the gates to them,where are we meant to house them.What I would like to know is why are they heading this way,why not to the rich Arab nations. There is plenty of property standing empty in this country, before you even start looking at holiday homes etc. Indeed. We all live under the same sky but we don't all have the same horizon! (not my saying but a famous, genuine politician) " Genuine Politician! Is there really such a thing? 
G | |||
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"If we open the gates to them,where are we meant to house them.What I would like to know is why are they heading this way,why not to the rich Arab nations. There is plenty of property standing empty in this country, before you even start looking at holiday homes etc. Indeed. We all live under the same sky but we don't all have the same horizon! (not my saying but a famous, genuine politician) Genuine Politician! Is there really such a thing?
G"I kind of think this one was... he was one of the old school! But I see where you are coming from  | |||
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"seems everyone wants us to help them...what about the rest of the eu......." Did you diliberatley not read the bit about Germany taking 800,000? | |||
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"seems everyone wants us to help them...what about the rest of the eu....... Did you diliberatley not read the bit about Germany taking 800,000?" | |||
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"Sick of people putting foreigners before our own people, charity begins at home I suspect that you are fortunate not to have met anyone fleeing, war, persecution and torture/rape. I have and as such agree totally with Mr ddc ... We can and should do more to help. Many of us really do not truly appreciate just how fortunate we are. Nita" Well said Nita. | |||
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"Sick of people putting foreigners before our own people, charity begins at home I suspect that you are fortunate not to have met anyone fleeing, war, persecution and torture/rape. I have and as such agree totally with Mr ddc ... We can and should do more to help. Many of us really do not truly appreciate just how fortunate we are. Nita Well said Nita. " seconded! | |||
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"Sick of people putting foreigners before our own people, charity begins at home Why, shouldn't people support who they wish? Plenty of people supporting nobody, and a fair few not helping themselves either?That is another really good point int the general discussion! In just the same way we do not generally dictate to people whether to support NSPCC or Red Cross or whaetver. "People are free to make their own personal choice if they want to donate to the red Cross, oxfam or what ever. Not all taxpayers want their taxes spent on this. Not saying its right or wrong, not judging anyone, agree or not that is the reality of it. Besides British government is doing its bit, reported in the news today the UK is giving 900 million in aid to help the refugees in other countries. | |||
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"Sick of people putting foreigners before our own people, charity begins at home Why, shouldn't people support who they wish? Plenty of people supporting nobody, and a fair few not helping themselves either?That is another really good point int the general discussion! In just the same way we do not generally dictate to people whether to support NSPCC or Red Cross or whaetver.
People are free to make their own personal choice if they want to donate to the red Cross, oxfam or what ever. Not all taxpayers want their taxes spent on this. Not saying its right or wrong, not judging anyone, agree or not that is the reality of it. Besides British government is doing its bit, reported in the news today the UK is giving 900 million in aid to help the refugees in other countries. "I dont agree with everything you say - however, you are happy to allow other people to make their choices without judging them. That is cool with me ! | |||
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"Id help them go back to there own country " I agree with you - once it is safe for them to go back. That has got to be the best solution all round | |||
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"Although I feel for them. If my country was being besieged by a minority of fanatics well funded or not, I don't think I would be fleeing. Four million refugees, possibly two million able to fire weapons? Seems like good odds to me. " DO you realise that these people (most of them) are fleeing from ISIS? Isis being the kind of guys taking pleasure in parading people and beheading them? | |||
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"Although I feel for them. If my country was being besieged by a minority of fanatics well funded or not, I don't think I would be fleeing. Four million refugees, possibly two million able to fire weapons? Seems like good odds to me. DO you realise that these people (most of them) are fleeing from ISIS? Isis being the kind of guys taking pleasure in parading people and beheading them? " thats what he said  | |||
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"If we open the gates to them,where are we meant to house them.What I would like to know is why are they heading this way,why not to the rich Arab nations." Well I would suggest maybe old military camps which are no longer used!!! There was a place over Cambridge area once a army camp used then for asylum seekers places like that would be better I'm sure than a dingy in the middle of the sea or floating to shore dead like that poor child and his family. Our government are quite happy sitting in an ivory tower discussing bombing Syria yet won't offer a place of safety to those who want no part of the Isis war. Kos and Rhodes are struggling to cope and there country (Greece) are on the point of being bankrup. And we send millions of £ each year to countries who in there own right are much richer. We sent billions to Ethiopia when they had famin why not now to those Syrians trying to flee. | |||
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"Although I feel for them. If my country was being besieged by a minority of fanatics well funded or not, I don't think I would be fleeing. Four million refugees, possibly two million able to fire weapons? Seems like good odds to me. DO you realise that these people (most of them) are fleeing from Isis being the kind of guys taking pleasure in parading people and beheading them? " absolutely but if Isis have little resistance the natural progression is to expand and before you know it a vast army of fanatics are knocking at the door. History has a funny way of repeating itself the Ottoman Empire started out the same and look what that led to, | |||
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"Although I feel for them. If my country was being besieged by a minority of fanatics well funded or not, I don't think I would be fleeing. Four million refugees, possibly two million able to fire weapons? Seems like good odds to me. DO you realise that these people (most of them) are fleeing from Isis being the kind of guys taking pleasure in parading people and beheading them? absolutely but if Isis have little resistance the natural progression is to expand and before you know it a vast army of fanatics are knocking at the door. History has a funny way of repeating itself the Ottoman Empire started out the same and look what that led to, " I understand where you are coming from. I think the current debate, on here and everywhere else, has two components that sometimes in the heat of the topic are being mixed up. 1. What needs to happen NOW - how can we help at very practical, granular level - how can we stop babies drowning... 2. What do we do in future - how can we help to get these people repatriated - get them back to their familiar environment minus the daily threat of death | |||
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"For anyone to blame us for the poor little kid who drowned is nonsense. I have not noticed any of the Muslim organisations rush to the Middle East to help their co-religionists. In my opinion, only families and from Syria are worthy of consideration, none from Afghanistan, Pakistan, or any African countries, they are economic migrants and not bona fide refugees." I think u need to look again. Pakistan has over 4 million just from Afghanistan. Jordan, Turkey, Lebanon, Iran have taken millions too. But yes the super rich arab nations give money, but don't take people, just as israel doesn't take anyone Christian or Muslim. | |||
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"I am very sad to hear about the little boy who drowned but I am struggling to understand how allowing more refugees into Britain will offer a solution. Surely, if the refugees know entry into the UK is easier even more will try to escape their own country and even more will perish on the journey. " The point isn't how many we let in. The point is how we're going to hold our MPs accountable for what they're allowing to be done over there, which is driving people out. | |||
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"For anyone to blame us for the poor little kid who drowned is nonsense. I have not noticed any of the Muslim organisations rush to the Middle East to help their co-religionists. In my opinion, only families and from Syria are worthy of consideration, none from Afghanistan, Pakistan, or any African countries, they are economic migrants and not bona fide refugees. I think u need to look again. Pakistan has over 4 million just from Afghanistan. Jordan, Turkey, Lebanon, Iran have taken millions too. But yes the super rich arab nations give money, but don't take people, just as israel doesn't take anyone Christian or Muslim." As I understand it Saudi Arabia and the other rich, sparsely populated, Gulf states have not taken 1 Syrian migrant. | |||
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" As I understand it Saudi Arabia and the other rich, sparsely populated, Gulf states have not taken 1 Syrian migrant. " But isn't that the point? Don't we want to be better than them? (Rather than it be a race to the bottom?) Isn't that what the 'Great' in Great Britain is all about? | |||
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"I am very sad to hear about the little boy who drowned but I am struggling to understand how allowing more refugees into Britain will offer a solution. Surely, if the refugees know entry into the UK is easier even more will try to escape their own country and even more will perish on the journey. The point isn't how many we let in. The point is how we're going to hold our MPs accountable for what they're allowing to be done over there, which is driving people out." Totally agree. For everything they've ever done. The poverty they're creating in their own country, their peadophile cover ups, theft from their people, as well as forcing people out of their countries. | |||
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"Plus why wouldn't Afghans count as refuges. Arnt they fleeing a war, like the Syrians. I bet u would count Palestinians or south Sudan Christians are refugees either. I give by dd to islamic aid n interpal. Do u. It would all be sorted if our leaders stop funding/arming both sides. But I agree there has to be a limit. " Answer to your questions. No Afghanistan is not at war. I do agree there are palestinian and Sudani refugues No I don't give money to Islamic Aid. Personally I give to other charities that I feel a greater connection to. Syrian refugees are the media's flavour of the month. 4 months ago it was the Nepal earthquake. (Not saying that either is insignificant.) I think you're naive to believe the problem is leaders funding both sides. Eg Rhodesia/Zimbabwe war. Iran/Iraq war. Shining Path in Peru. Many others seem to agree with you though. | |||
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"I think its time to recognise that there are many things needing doing to solve this problem... and one of them is to alleviate the humanitarian crisis that is occurring right now by taking in more migrants. Any ideas which don't involve doing that as a first step are just heartless imo. Sure there are other steps that need to be taken... but that's the one that's immediately in front of us and I'd be proud to be British if we took it. I would be ashamed if we didn't. " You say we should take in more "migrants". Now if you had said "genuine asylum seekers" I would have agreed with you, but "economic migrants" like the ones in calais I have no sympathy for what so ever. There is a clear difference between the two. Yes help the asylum seekers, the economic migrants No. | |||
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" As I understand it Saudi Arabia and the other rich, sparsely populated, Gulf states have not taken 1 Syrian migrant. But isn't that the point? Don't we want to be better than them? (Rather than it be a race to the bottom?) Isn't that what the 'Great' in Great Britain is all about?" England has almost twice the population density of Germany and 30 times that of Saudia Arabia. Saudi Arabia is closer to Syria than the UK, far richer and shares the same religion. It seems sometimes Islam is great at Jihad but lousy at helping the inevitable displaced persons and facilitating peace. | |||
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"I am very sad to hear about the little boy who drowned but I am struggling to understand how allowing more refugees into Britain will offer a solution. Surely, if the refugees know entry into the UK is easier even more will try to escape their own country and even more will perish on the journey. " I think there may be scope for looking into repatriating these people once the crisis is over... or maybe giving them safe haven in a neighboring state if that can't be done... and thus not really giving them full British citizenship. And I think other measures need to be taken to stop people trafficking like policing the Med better. But it seems to me that any solution has to involve an immediate short term semi-solution... just to tide things over... and then look at what else needs doing to stop it happening again. | |||
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https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/lounge/422883 | |||
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" As I understand it Saudi Arabia and the other rich, sparsely populated, Gulf states have not taken 1 Syrian migrant. But isn't that the point? Don't we want to be better than them? (Rather than it be a race to the bottom?) Isn't that what the 'Great' in Great Britain is all about?" | |||
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" As I understand it Saudi Arabia and the other rich, sparsely populated, Gulf states have not taken 1 Syrian migrant. But isn't that the point? Don't we want to be better than them? (Rather than it be a race to the bottom?) Isn't that what the 'Great' in Great Britain is all about?" No it's not the Great in Great Britain is the same as the Greater in Greater London it is about area covered not about prowess. Britain is England & Wales Great Britain is England, Wales and Scotland | |||
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"Answers at the bottom of this mighty thread: https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/lounge/422883 I pledge that I will eat one of my hats if any of this makes anyone reconsider their views." It made me reconsider my views on you, I'm sorry to say I previously had you down as a hand-wringer. Thank you, Joe. | |||
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"To be fair we have robbed those Middle Eastern countries for God knows how long so taking refugees is the pay back what we deserve.. Obviously we need to keep them at the back of the que and sort our own first! Etheir way take them of leave them the country will be flooded within the next 5/10years. " Obviously my historical knowledge is blank on this. When did we rob Syria? | |||
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"As much as i dislike whats going on with the refufees we cant cope with the vast amount of influx, the sheer amount that want to come to Europe. Esp the uk we are at breaking point. Nhs is at breaking point, we dont have enough council homes, jobs for people in our country, " You should speak to my mum about what it feels like to live in a Britain at breaking point - she was 18 in 1939. Our lack of housing is more to do with political pandering to the nimby's who don't want more housing near them. (Near us they complain about their children not being able to find somewhere to live at the same time as opposing new housing developments) Simply relaxing planning laws would increase housing without the government having to spend a penny. Furthermore, the resultant decrease in property prices would make those who rent/take out new mortgages effectively richer, while only reducing the paper-wealth of existing home-owners. Coupled with more encouragement/requirement for firms to provide proper apprenticeships, this would also answer your concerns about jobs. The problem with services is that while successive governments have been happy to trumpet the net benefit that immigration brings to our economy, they prefer to spend that money in either tax cuts or wage increases for the 'indigenous' population, rather than on investing in our public services, therby making them better for us all. Sadly, as so often in our country, we have to choose between a government who has financial acumen or one that has a heart. | |||
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" Obviously my historical knowledge is blank on this. When did we rob Syria?" If I remember correctly it was technically France who robbed Syria, while we were plundering Iraq, Egypt and Palestine. But many of the Palestinian refugees caused when we helped Israel to invade Palestine have lived in Syria ever since. | |||
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" Obviously my historical knowledge is blank on this. When did we rob Syria? If I remember correctly it was technically France who robbed Syria, while we were plundering Iraq, Egypt and Palestine. But many of the Palestinian refugees caused when we helped Israel to invade Palestine have lived in Syria ever since. " you say plundered in a tone like savages arent taking power drills and gun powder to antiquities  | |||
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"you say plundered in a tone like savages arent taking power drills and gun powder to antiquities "Steady, you'll have a Greek person saying 'Elgin marbles' if you're not careful 
Is the loss of a thousand-year old temple worse than a five-year old boy?
And if we really cared enough, don't you think we could stop them?
The problem in Syria (as so often in these crises) is that Russia and the West started on different sides. | |||
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"Sick of people putting foreigners before our own people, charity begins at home" Earth is our home, it's people are our people. | |||
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"So guys, how do we stop funding the wars?" We seem to find Billions to kill people, but not enough to help them. | |||
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"Some figures to consider... There are an estimated 4million refugees from Syria alone. Germany plans to take 800,000, probably more. Lebanon has taken 1 million, their population is only 4 million. We have taken, wait for it, 216. (But, by God we're good at hand-wringing (and foot-tapping)) Mr ddc" Firstly I think Britain should do more for the Syrian and Iraqi refugees, but I don't include the Calais "Lorry Jumpers" who are a completely separate issue. Anyway, back to why I used the above quote. 216 is very much cherry picked figure and is only from one particular scheme (the vulnerable persons relocation scheme) and does not include the 5000 or so other Syrians who have been granted asylum in Britain since 2011 or the people on expired student visas who have been allowed to stay. Still a small number considering the circumstances but a lot more than 216. Britain also contributes more (and a lot more) than any other EU country in foreign aid, of which at the moment nearly a billion pounds of it is being spent on refugee relief in Syria and Iraq. France for example gives a paltry 69 million. I wouldn't get too excited about the German 800,000 figure either. That is a worst case scenario and bears no resemblance to the true number of arrivals. So far this year the number is just over 30,000. Yes I do believe that Britain could do a bit more in the current crisis but that doesn't mean that the door should be flung open to all and sundry, and the rest of the EU should look at the whole picture of Britain's contribution before pointing fingers. | |||
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"If you are so much fear you risk the life of your family id say you need help. " I'd take help where i could. Not pick and choose who's charity i wish to take... | |||
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" to put it all into perspective the Number of people expected to be living per square kilometre in 2015 - by country England - 419 Holland - 408 Wales - 258 Germany - 226 Italy - 205 N. Ireland - 130 Poland - 123 Portugal - 116 France - 105 Romania - 89 Bulgaria - 66 we are the most heavily populated country in the EU so why don't the others take more it seems that no matter what happens anywhere britain has to bail out the world" Your cut and paste missed off Scotland - 40 | |||
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" to put it all into perspective the Number of people expected to be living per square kilometre in 2015 - by country England - 419 Holland - 408 Wales - 258 Germany - 226 Italy - 205 N. Ireland - 130 Poland - 123 Portugal - 116 France - 105 Romania - 89 Bulgaria - 66 we are the most heavily populated country in the EU so why don't the others take more it seems that no matter what happens anywhere britain has to bail out the world" Population density of Kensington and Chelsea: 13,016 Population density of the Qabr Essit refugee camp: 846,739... | |||
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"Yes I do believe that Britain could do a bit more in the current crisis but that doesn't mean that the door should be flung open to all and sundry, and the rest of the EU should look at the whole picture of Britain's contribution before pointing fingers. " Neither do I think the answer is to fling open the door. What is needed is a combination of measures (as laid out far more eloquently than I could by DiamondJoe on the other thread). Yes we should be proud of the money we spend in foreign aid, but too often this is not quite as alturistic as it seems. And letting poorer countries shoulder the burden instead just seems a bit easy. | |||
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" Obviously my historical knowledge is blank on this. When did we rob Syria? If I remember correctly it was technically France who robbed Syria, while we were plundering Iraq, Egypt and Palestine. But many of the Palestinian refugees caused when we helped Israel to invade Palestine have lived in Syria ever since. " Don't agree that we extracted any resources from Iraq, Egypt or Palestine but ignoring that, there may have been some military units that handed over strategic sites to Jewish forces on their withdrawal from Palestine. However these were in the vast vast minority. Most were handed to Palestinians or, as instructed, they were just abandoned. Jewish terrorism prior to British withdrawal had hardly endeared Judaism to the majority of the British military. | |||
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"I am very sad to hear about the little boy who drowned but I am struggling to understand how allowing more refugees into Britain will offer a solution. Surely, if the refugees know entry into the UK is easier even more will try to escape their own country and even more will perish on the journey. The point isn't how many we let in. The point is how we're going to hold our MPs accountable for what they're allowing to be done over there, which is driving people out. Totally agree. For everything they've ever done. The poverty they're creating in their own country, their peadophile cover ups, theft from their people, as well as forcing people out of their countries." Do you know what is going on in Syria, Iraq and Libya? How is it connected to what you have written? | |||
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" to put it all into perspective the Number of people expected to be living per square kilometre in 2015 - by country England - 419 Holland - 408 Wales - 258 Germany - 226 Italy - 205 N. Ireland - 130 Poland - 123 Portugal - 116 France - 105 Romania - 89 Bulgaria - 66 we are the most heavily populated country in the EU so why don't the others take more it seems that no matter what happens anywhere britain has to bail out the world" I'd be happy to move to Spain or somewhere a bit warmer if they want some more room. I'd abandon this soggy place and leave it too them if I had another half a million tucked in the bank | |||
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"That little boy being washed up on the beach was heartbreaking we need to help now Mr Cameron " I don't think he's got a profile on here. | |||
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"If you are so much fear you risk the life of your family id say you need help. Sick of scaremongering from the media They are humans the same as us" If the are genuine refugees yes, but most are young men who simply want to improve their life financially. They are not flee oppression or wars. On a related note, whilst I am sad for the children who drowned, once again they were economic immigrants, from a comfortable life in their own country. They died because of their fathers greed, which is a terrible thing. They were not taking flight from terror, poverty or war. | |||
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" to put it all into perspective the Number of people expected to be living per square kilometre in 2015 - by country England - 419 Holland - 408 Wales - 258 Germany - 226 Italy - 205 N. Ireland - 130 Poland - 123 Portugal - 116 France - 105 Romania - 89 Bulgaria - 66 we are the most heavily populated country in the EU so why don't the others take more it seems that no matter what happens anywhere britain has to bail out the world Population density of Kensington and Chelsea: 13,016 Population density of the Qabr Essit refugee camp: 846,739... " I can see the residents of Kensington and Chelsea welcoming refugees into their empty homes. Where should they go though? Will they be able to go where they have a community of their own nationalities already,or will they be sent to the poorest areas already burgeoning with the influx of new residents. Should they go to less populated areas,such as the one someone mentioned on here recently as having lots of empty homes? Do they scatter them across the country? | |||
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" to put it all into perspective the Number of people expected to be living per square kilometre in 2015 - by country England - 419 Holland - 408 Wales - 258 Germany - 226 Italy - 205 N. Ireland - 130 Poland - 123 Portugal - 116 France - 105 Romania - 89 Bulgaria - 66 we are the most heavily populated country in the EU so why don't the others take more it seems that no matter what happens anywhere britain has to bail out the world Population density of Kensington and Chelsea: 13,016 Population density of the Qabr Essit refugee camp: 846,739... " There's lie, damned lies and statistics. I know where I'd rather live but Population per km square Tower Hamlets 14000 | |||
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"So guys, how do we stop funding the wars? Banning fossil fuels so we don't need oil anymore? We got our shit together for Bosnia, we just don't seem to feel the same sense of urgency for Syria. We can't even decide which side we're for or against." And there you go, you have answered your own question. Sadaam was a right bastard to his people, us and a few others got rid of him put the other side in and its no different. People still scream it was an illegal war. So back to syria, who should we fight for and will this be legal. No wonder Dave wont join in. | |||
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"Answers at the bottom of this mighty thread: https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/lounge/422883 I pledge that I will eat one of my hats if any of this makes anyone reconsider their views. It made me reconsider my views on you, I'm sorry to say I previously had you down as a hand-wringer. Thank you, Joe." This is cool! | |||
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"I feel there is a huge difference between migrants (Calais) mostly men are only wanting to come to the UK to work and send money back to there families in which ever country they are from. And possibly fund terrorists (who knows). And then: Refugees like we see in the media are families trying to flee war torn countries to escape terror and provide a better life for them selfs, we really do need to help these people. " Indeed and it has just been announced (well I just heard it on the radio news) that Britain is taking 4000 Syrian refugees from Syria in a "structured way", which does not help those in Hungary, but it is a positive move forward. Makes me happy! | |||
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"Answers at the bottom of this mighty thread: https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/lounge/422883 I pledge that I will eat one of my hats if any of this makes anyone reconsider their views. It made me reconsider my views on you, I'm sorry to say I previously had you down as a hand-wringer. Thank you, Joe. This is cool! "A good overview of the problems at hand from Joe, although I dare say there are even more complexities when you look into it more deeply. I personally feel that the current humanitarian crisis and the cause of that crisis are two separate things. We need to deal with the crisis itself first by giving shelter to 10's of thousands of migrants and then processing their applications to see which are legitimate and which aren't. Then, once the immediate suffering and agony is alleviated, we need greater integration with Europe so that together we can pursue a common migrant policy, much as outlined by Joe, and proactively solve the cause of the problem abroad. There is no cherry we could offer immigrants more persuasive than our own safety and prosperity. It is foolish to think that just by refusing to let some in we will disuade others from trying. Heck I went to art school and was told categorically that only one person in our year stood a chance of ever becoming an artist... and we all sat there thinking it was us lol Instead of "appearances" we need to take real measures to tighten our borders... and that involves greater integration with Europe imo.
Of course another solution would be for us to vote to leave the EU... then that makes it easy... the EU can just pop everyone on a boat they don't want and send them our way | |||
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"Be good for the Rich gulf states to help share the burden. " Be good for Tony Blair to hang his head in shame and dip into HIS many millions to help now too...but I doubt he'd have the balls to publicly show his face now the chickens are coming home to roost. | |||
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"Be good for the Rich gulf states to help share the burden. Be good for Tony Blair to hang his head in shame and dip into HIS many millions to help now too...but I doubt he'd have the balls to publicly show his face now the chickens are coming home to roost." I hate the guy but how exactly is he responsible for the "Arab Spring" and the resulting Syrian civil war? | |||
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"Answers at the bottom of this mighty thread: https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/lounge/422883 I pledge that I will eat one of my hats if any of this makes anyone reconsider their views. It made me reconsider my views on you, I'm sorry to say I previously had you down as a hand-wringer. Thank you, Joe. This is cool!
A good overview of the problems at hand from Joe, although I dare say there are even more complexities when you look into it more deeply.
I personally feel that the current humanitarian crisis and the cause of that crisis are two separate things. We need to deal with the crisis itself first by giving shelter to 10's of thousands of migrants and then processing their applications to see which are legitimate and which aren't. Then, once the immediate suffering and agony is alleviated, we need greater integration with Europe so that together we can pursue a common migrant policy, much as outlined by Joe, and proactively solve the cause of the problem abroad.
There is no cherry we could offer immigrants more persuasive than our own safety and prosperity. It is foolish to think that just by refusing to let some in we will disuade others from trying. Heck I went to art school and was told categorically that only one person in our year stood a chance of ever becoming an artist... and we all sat there thinking it was us lol Instead of "appearances" we need to take real measures to tighten our borders... and that involves greater integration with Europe imo.
Of course another solution would be for us to vote to leave the EU... then that makes it easy... the EU can just pop everyone on a boat they don't want and send them our way "Why does tightening our borders involve integrating with Europe rather than separation? | |||
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"Why does tightening our borders involve integrating with Europe rather than separation?" I believe our borders are European. We can build a 10ft high wall around the UK, but if the EU just ships all their unwanted immigrants over to us then we're gonna drown under the weight of them. It is therefore clear to me that quotas need arriving at, that the borders are at the borders of Europe not the UK, and that we should be involved in policing those borders. That all adds up to greater integration in my mind. But, of course, we could just leave it up to the Greeks to decide who they want to put on a train for Calais or Germany or not... hmmmm | |||
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"Answers at the bottom of this mighty thread: https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/lounge/422883 I pledge that I will eat one of my hats if any of this makes anyone reconsider their views. It made me reconsider my views on you, I'm sorry to say I previously had you down as a hand-wringer. Thank you, Joe. This is cool!
A good overview of the problems at hand from Joe, although I dare say there are even more complexities when you look into it more deeply.
I personally feel that the current humanitarian crisis and the cause of that crisis are two separate things. We need to deal with the crisis itself first by giving shelter to 10's of thousands of migrants and then processing their applications to see which are legitimate and which aren't. Then, once the immediate suffering and agony is alleviated, we need greater integration with Europe so that together we can pursue a common migrant policy, much as outlined by Joe, and proactively solve the cause of the problem abroad.
There is no cherry we could offer immigrants more persuasive than our own safety and prosperity. It is foolish to think that just by refusing to let some in we will disuade others from trying. Heck I went to art school and was told categorically that only one person in our year stood a chance of ever becoming an artist... and we all sat there thinking it was us lol Instead of "appearances" we need to take real measures to tighten our borders... and that involves greater integration with Europe imo.
Of course another solution would be for us to vote to leave the EU... then that makes it easy... the EU can just pop everyone on a boat they don't want and send them our way
Why does tightening our borders involve integrating with Europe rather than separation?"I agree, Greater integration with Europe would actually weaken our borders. We would have a much stronger border if we left the EU and are able to have our own immigration and refugee policy instead of one concocted in Brussels by a bunch of half wit eurocrats. About the point of the EU sending boatloads our way, what utter nonsense, even if they did do that we could adopt the Australian approach and simply turn the boats away. I welcome the news today we are taking 4000 asylum seekers directly from Syria. Maybe it'll send a message to them not to travel all over Europe and so they end up in calais trying to break into a lorry to break into our country illegally. | |||
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"Some very backward inhumane posts on here. Maybe some of you need to rethink your Morales " . The trouble with religious wars is... There already incredibly moralistic!, they just differ with your values | |||
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" The trouble with religious wars is... There already incredibly moralistic!, they just differ with your values" Actually I agree with you there. Its all a matter of your own beliefs. | |||
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" Population density of Kensington and Chelsea: 13,016 Population density of the Qabr Essit refugee camp: 846,739... There's lie, damned lies and statistics. I know where I'd rather live but Population per km square Tower Hamlets 14000 " I nearly put Tower Hamlets, but (and with full apologies to anyone from Tower Hamlets) I felt Kensington might be a better example of how high-density doesn't necessarily mean poverty and deprivation | |||
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"How do sunni,s beliefs differ from shia?" One of them, can't remember which, believe that the only route to god is through the family of the prophet mohammed... so they worship mohammeds descendents, much as Christians worship Jesus, instead of god. The other lot see this as kinda blasphemous I guess... insisting that one should only worship god. That's my understanding of it anyway | |||
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" The trouble with religious wars is... There already incredibly moralistic!, they just differ with your values Actually I agree with you there. Its all a matter of your own beliefs. "Maybe the concept of " Belief " is the problem, people can believe what ever they want, as oppose to seeing the actual truth. | |||
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"How do sunni,s beliefs differ from shia?" Muslims are split into two main branches, the Sunnis and Shia. The split originates in a dispute soon after the death of the Prophet Muhammad over who should lead the Muslim community. The great majority of Muslims are Sunnis - estimates suggest the figure is somewhere between 85% and 90%. The differences lie in the fields of doctrine, ritual, law, theology and religious organisation. * Sunnis Sunni Muslims regard themselves as the orthodox and traditionalist branch of Islam. The word Sunni comes from "Ahl al-Sunna", the people of the tradition. The tradition in this case refers to practices based on precedent or reports of the actions of the Prophet Muhammad and those close to him. * Shias In early Islamic history the Shia were a political faction - literally "Shiat Ali" or the party of Ali. The Shia claimed the right of Ali, the son-in-law of the Prophet Muhammad, and his descendants to lead the Islamic community. There is a distinctive messianic element to the faith and Shia have a hierarchy of clerics who practise independent and ongoing interpretation of Islamic texts. | |||
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"Some very backward inhumane posts on here. Maybe some of you need to rethink your Morales . The trouble with religious wars is... There already incredibly moralistic!, they just differ with your values" I'm a bit lost on this... are we now saying that syria is a religious war? Where are we getting that one from... Assad's "Bureau of Correct Information"? | |||
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"Some very backward inhumane posts on here. Maybe some of you need to rethink your Morales . The trouble with religious wars is... There already incredibly moralistic!, they just differ with your values I'm a bit lost on this... are we now saying that syria is a religious war? Where are we getting that one from... Assad's "Bureau of Correct Information"?" Trollololol | |||
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" The trouble with religious wars is... There already incredibly moralistic!, they just differ with your values Actually I agree with you there. Its all a matter of your own beliefs.
Maybe the concept of " Belief " is the problem, people can believe what ever they want, as oppose to seeing the actual truth."You know, I don't have a problem with poeple believing whatever they choose to (that is if they actually have a genuine choice, which I quqestion sometimes) and I don't have an issue with their own unique customs. I struggle with faiths (any faith) becoming militant and aggressive to others. | |||
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"I see that the little boy who died had been living in Istanbul for three years. The family had a flat and his dad had a work permit. Turkey is classed as a safe country. International law and the moral position is that countries have a duty to help people arriving from dangerous countries. So the family were economic migrants, looking for a wealthier life. Don't blame them for that but the case shouldn't be used to build a case for allowing hundreds of thousands across the border" Link? Evidence? | |||
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"Mans inhumanity to man makes me very sad" | |||
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"Ah so IS are sunni, hence they take the traditional view of blowing up anything and killing anyone who doesn't worship god their way. Now i completely understand. "They are extremists, not Sunnis. You might as well say that Branch Davidians are representative of Protestantism | |||
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"Mans inhumanity to man makes me very sad" Same here, some comments make me feel sick, it's the way human beings are dehumanised by people, calling them" scum", "Vermin" and reducing them to statistics. | |||
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" The trouble with religious wars is... There already incredibly moralistic!, they just differ with your values Actually I agree with you there. Its all a matter of your own beliefs.
Maybe the concept of " Belief " is the problem, people can believe what ever they want, as oppose to seeing the actual truth.You know, I don't have a problem with poeple believing whatever they choose to (that is if they actually have a genuine choice, which I quqestion sometimes) and I don't have an issue with their own unique customs.
I struggle with faiths (any faith) becoming militant and aggressive to others. "Isn't faith the same as belief? I feel that if everyone saw the actual truth we would no longer be in this state of division, religious, nationalistic or otherwise. | |||
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" The trouble with religious wars is... There already incredibly moralistic!, they just differ with your values Actually I agree with you there. Its all a matter of your own beliefs.
Maybe the concept of " Belief " is the problem, people can believe what ever they want, as oppose to seeing the actual truth.You know, I don't have a problem with poeple believing whatever they choose to (that is if they actually have a genuine choice, which I quqestion sometimes) and I don't have an issue with their own unique customs.
I struggle with faiths (any faith) becoming militant and aggressive to others.
Isn't faith the same as belief? I feel that if everyone saw the actual truth we would no longer be in this state of division, religious, nationalistic or otherwise."Yes, I agree with you - did not meant to make a distinction there. | |||
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"Why don't people put them up in their homes if it's a good idea to help, saves the tax payer to fork out as per usual." Some do! | |||
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"Ah so IS are sunni, hence they take the traditional view of blowing up anything and killing anyone who doesn't worship god their way. Now i completely understand.
They are extremists, not Sunnis.
You might as well say that Branch Davidians are representative of Protestantism "Ooo watch out Joe... a sudden outbreak of tolerance can lead to a serious infection you know. | |||
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"Ah so IS are sunni, hence they take the traditional view of blowing up anything and killing anyone who doesn't worship god their way. Now i completely understand.
They are extremists, not Sunnis.
You might as well say that Branch Davidians are representative of Protestantism
Ooo watch out Joe... a sudden outbreak of tolerance can lead to a serious infection you know."I'm answering the question, no spreading 'opinion' | |||
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" The trouble with religious wars is... There already incredibly moralistic!, they just differ with your values Actually I agree with you there. Its all a matter of your own beliefs.
Maybe the concept of " Belief " is the problem, people can believe what ever they want, as oppose to seeing the actual truth.You know, I don't have a problem with poeple believing whatever they choose to (that is if they actually have a genuine choice, which I quqestion sometimes) and I don't have an issue with their own unique customs.
I struggle with faiths (any faith) becoming militant and aggressive to others.
Isn't faith the same as belief? I feel that if everyone saw the actual truth we would no longer be in this state of division, religious, nationalistic or otherwise.
Yes, I agree with you - did not meant to make a distinction there. "Don't think it will ever happen, but it's worth aiming for. | |||
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"Why don't people put them up in their homes if it's a good idea to help, saves the tax payer to fork out as per usual.Some do! " I would put one up in my home if she's big boobed and good in bed too. | |||
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"Ah so IS are sunni, hence they take the traditional view of blowing up anything and killing anyone who doesn't worship god their way. Now i completely understand.
They are extremists, not Sunnis.
You might as well say that Branch Davidians are representative of Protestantism
Ooo watch out Joe... a sudden outbreak of tolerance can lead to a serious infection you know.
I'm answering the question, no spreading 'opinion'
"Ahh... I see, not an outbreak of tolerance after all... phew that was a close one. Carry on... | |||
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"Why don't people put them up in their homes if it's a good idea to help, saves the tax payer to fork out as per usual.Some do! I would put one up in my home if she's big boobed and good in bed too. "*rolls eyes* | |||
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"Why don't people put them up in their homes if it's a good idea to help, saves the tax payer to fork out as per usual.Some do! I would put one up in my home if she's big boobed and good in bed too.
*rolls eyes*"yawn | |||
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"Why do you thing they have put up the retirement age to pay for them" cause we are MUGS in this country | |||
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"Why don't people put them up in their homes if it's a good idea to help, saves the tax payer to fork out as per usual.Some do! I would put one up in my home if she's big boobed and good in bed too.
*rolls eyes*"This sort of thing actually happens,people seen as little more than a thing to be used and abused for someone else's pleasure, so sad. | |||
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"Some very backward inhumane posts on here. Maybe some of you need to rethink your Morales . The trouble with religious wars is... There already incredibly moralistic!, they just differ with your values I'm a bit lost on this... are we now saying that syria is a religious war? Where are we getting that one from... Assad's "Bureau of Correct Information"?" . Yeah it's absolutely a religious war, it's been brewing for decades. My opinion is not law it's just an opinion! But the shia/sunni battle has been on the cards for years, the only thing that held it from exploding was utter dictatorship of Muslim leaders. The Arab springs were always going to occur they just needed the right buttons pressing! In fact there's several religious wars going on in the middle East, it's just that shia/sunni is the predominate one. | |||
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"Why do you thing they have put up the retirement age to pay for them" There's no direct link, the government just want more out of us so they can continue tax breaks for their friends and supporters, that is as plain as day. | |||
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"Some very backward inhumane posts on here. Maybe some of you need to rethink your Morales . The trouble with religious wars is... There already incredibly moralistic!, they just differ with your values I'm a bit lost on this... are we now saying that syria is a religious war? Where are we getting that one from... Assad's "Bureau of Correct Information"?. Yeah it's absolutely a religious war, it's been brewing for decades. My opinion is not law it's just an opinion! But the shia/sunni battle has been on the cards for years, the only thing that held it from exploding was utter dictatorship of Muslim leaders. The Arab springs were always going to occur they just needed the right buttons pressing! In fact there's several religious wars going on in the middle East, it's just that shia/sunni is the predominate one." Has there ever not been a war in the middle East? | |||
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"Some very backward inhumane posts on here. Maybe some of you need to rethink your Morales . The trouble with religious wars is... There already incredibly moralistic!, they just differ with your values I'm a bit lost on this... are we now saying that syria is a religious war? Where are we getting that one from... Assad's "Bureau of Correct Information"?. Yeah it's absolutely a religious war, it's been brewing for decades. My opinion is not law it's just an opinion! But the shia/sunni battle has been on the cards for years, the only thing that held it from exploding was utter dictatorship of Muslim leaders. The Arab springs were always going to occur they just needed the right buttons pressing! In fact there's several religious wars going on in the middle East, it's just that shia/sunni is the predominate one." Hmm... that feels a bit like saying that the problem with the Nazi's was their blonde hair. There is such a thing as oversimplification imo ... and even if we were going to go there... it seems pretty obvious that inequalities, government oppression, and ethnic differences would most likely rank higher than the myriad of other factors | |||
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"Some very backward inhumane posts on here. Maybe some of you need to rethink your Morales . The trouble with religious wars is... There already incredibly moralistic!, they just differ with your values I'm a bit lost on this... are we now saying that syria is a religious war? Where are we getting that one from... Assad's "Bureau of Correct Information"?" Religious war my ass. People so fucking fanatical they only require $1,000 a month to fight! It's easier to label them all crazy than to look at the cold hard reality that they are doing a job in a region that doesn't have any decent jobs. They are no more fanatical than the average Nazi prison guard who did what they needed to do to feed their family and stay alive. It's not right. It's human. | |||
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"Why don't people put them up in their homes if it's a good idea to help, saves the tax payer to fork out as per usual.Some do! I would put one up in my home if she's big boobed and good in bed too.
*rolls eyes*
yawn"I'm sorry, it's just crass | |||
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"Some very backward inhumane posts on here. Maybe some of you need to rethink your Morales . The trouble with religious wars is... There already incredibly moralistic!, they just differ with your values I'm a bit lost on this... are we now saying that syria is a religious war? Where are we getting that one from... Assad's "Bureau of Correct Information"?. Yeah it's absolutely a religious war, it's been brewing for decades. My opinion is not law it's just an opinion! But the shia/sunni battle has been on the cards for years, the only thing that held it from exploding was utter dictatorship of Muslim leaders. The Arab springs were always going to occur they just needed the right buttons pressing! In fact there's several religious wars going on in the middle East, it's just that shia/sunni is the predominate one. Hmm... that feels a bit like saying that the problem with the Nazi's was their blonde hair. There is such a thing as oversimplification imo ... and even if we were going to go there... it seems pretty obvious that inequalities, government oppression, and ethnic differences would most likely rank higher than the myriad of other factors" You pontificating again? That's my job, matey | |||
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"Why don't people put them up in their homes if it's a good idea to help, saves the tax payer to fork out as per usual.Some do! I would put one up in my home if she's big boobed and good in bed too.
*rolls eyes*
yawn
I'm sorry, it's just crass"Some jokes fall flat... and unfortunately that was one of em... never mind... pick yourself up... dust yourself off... and put it down to experience. Not good to joke about taking advantage of someone in a desperate situation... just backfires on ya | |||
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" History has a funny way of repeating itself the Ottoman Empire started out the same and look what that led to, " Ironically the Ottomans were the last people to keep that region peaceful for any meaningful period of time. Albeit brutally. | |||
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"Some very backward inhumane posts on here. Maybe some of you need to rethink your Morales . The trouble with religious wars is... There already incredibly moralistic!, they just differ with your values I'm a bit lost on this... are we now saying that syria is a religious war? Where are we getting that one from... Assad's "Bureau of Correct Information"?. Yeah it's absolutely a religious war, it's been brewing for decades. My opinion is not law it's just an opinion! But the shia/sunni battle has been on the cards for years, the only thing that held it from exploding was utter dictatorship of Muslim leaders. The Arab springs were always going to occur they just needed the right buttons pressing! In fact there's several religious wars going on in the middle East, it's just that shia/sunni is the predominate one. Has there ever not been a war in the middle East?" . Yes from 100bc to 1000 ad they were actually very progressive | |||
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"Why don't people put them up in their homes if it's a good idea to help, saves the tax payer to fork out as per usual.Some do! I would put one up in my home if she's big boobed and good in bed too.
*rolls eyes*
yawn
I'm sorry, it's just crass
Some jokes fall flat... and unfortunately that was one of em... never mind... pick yourself up... dust yourself off... and put it down to experience. Not good to joke about taking advantage of someone in a desperate situation... just backfires on ya "At least he didn't say that Hitler had the 'right idea'. :/ | |||
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"Some very backward inhumane posts on here. Maybe some of you need to rethink your Morales . The trouble with religious wars is... There already incredibly moralistic!, they just differ with your values I'm a bit lost on this... are we now saying that syria is a religious war? Where are we getting that one from... Assad's "Bureau of Correct Information"?. Yeah it's absolutely a religious war, it's been brewing for decades. My opinion is not law it's just an opinion! But the shia/sunni battle has been on the cards for years, the only thing that held it from exploding was utter dictatorship of Muslim leaders. The Arab springs were always going to occur they just needed the right buttons pressing! In fact there's several religious wars going on in the middle East, it's just that shia/sunni is the predominate one. Has there ever not been a war in the middle East?. Yes from 100bc to 1000 ad they were actually very progressive" They were peaceful under the Ottomans more recently than that. FYI: the evidence does not support the view that religion fuels war. Sorry to let the facts get in the way of doctrine. Reference: Paul Collier "Greed and Grievance in Civil war". But I'll give you three guesses what war is really about... it starts with 'M' and ends with 'oney' | |||
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"Have human beings learned anything from thousands of years of history, we are still the same, hatred, aggression, wars, causing suffering and lacking humanity. Technologically we have made great advances, but psychologically, we are still getting nowhere." Yes you're quite right... humans are awful... lets bomb the lot of em
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Ooops I think I may have just crossed the hypocritical line | |||
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"Yes you're quite right... humans are awful... lets bomb the lot of em
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Ooops I think I may have just crossed the hypocritical line "Tbf that's not the first time. Lol | |||
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"It's no different to the catholic/protestant battle or the Jewish/Palestinian one... Speaking of that, where's the moral outrage to the 4 million Palestinian refugees that are murdered every day by Jewish dictatorship.... Oh wait yes I remember now, they don't wash up dead on beach's on the cover of the paper for people to get all moralistic over morning breakfast!. There's one person on here that happened to brag about filling his giant American automobile up for 20 dollars only 4 months ago! ... And now seems completely astonished by the middle East crises that allows him to fill up his automobile for 20 dollars. Anyone that has utter belief in "the good book" are always going to be easily lead" 4 million murdered every day? Not even you believe that one. It's back to statistics 101 for you matey | |||
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"That little boy being washed up on the beach was heartbreaking we need to help now Mr Cameron I don't think he's got a profile on here." You never know!! | |||
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"Have human beings learned anything from thousands of years of history, we are still the same, hatred, aggression, wars, causing suffering and lacking humanity. Technologically we have made great advances, but psychologically, we are still getting nowhere." Somewhere there is a tree with a waist height hole calling your name | |||
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"That little boy being washed up on the beach was heartbreaking we need to help now Mr Cameron I don't think he's got a profile on here. You never know!! " Samantha Cameron's not bad | |||
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"Yes you're quite right... humans are awful... lets bomb the lot of em
.
Ooops I think I may have just crossed the hypocritical line
Tbf that's not the first time.
Lol
"You do know that your persistent picking on me makes you come across as a rather vile man don't you? | |||
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"Have human beings learned anything from thousands of years of history, we are still the same, hatred, aggression, wars, causing suffering and lacking humanity. Technologically we have made great advances, but psychologically, we are still getting nowhere. Somewhere there is a tree with a waist height hole calling your name" Enquire. | |||
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"Yes you're quite right... humans are awful... lets bomb the lot of em
.
Ooops I think I may have just crossed the hypocritical line
Tbf that's not the first time.
Lol
You do know that your persistent picking on me makes you come across as a rather vile man don't you? "He's a diamond is Joe. | |||
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"Yes you're quite right... humans are awful... lets bomb the lot of em
.
Ooops I think I may have just crossed the hypocritical line
Tbf that's not the first time.
Lol
You do know that your persistent picking on me makes you come across as a rather vile man don't you? "Keep posting rubbish and I'll keep tidying up around you. *shrugs* We're a bit off topic now... shall we just get a room and fuck? | |||
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"Yes you're quite right... humans are awful... lets bomb the lot of em
.
Ooops I think I may have just crossed the hypocritical line
Tbf that's not the first time.
Lol
You do know that your persistent picking on me makes you come across as a rather vile man don't you?
Keep posting rubbish and I'll keep tidying up around you.
*shrugs*
We're a bit off topic now... shall we just get a room and fuck?
"See, told you! | |||
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"I think we have to differentiate between economic migration and true asylum seekers. A lot of the migration at the moment is economic. These are people paying traffickers 1000,s of pounds to bring them to Europe. They are aware of the risks and are still prepared to do it. A great many seem to have mobile phones and even credit cards. They and I say they guardedly, have a choice. To pay or not to pay. A true asylum seeker, in my opinion, has been forced from their homes due to circumstances beyond their control, war etc and have nothing. No money and probably only the clothing they have on. These are the people that need our and others help. What I do find slightly galling, is that we now have migrants protesting because they are not being processed quickly enough. As if they have a right to do so. Possibly keep the human rights lawyers busy for a few years." If the USA invaded the UK (thankfully rather unlikely) and I fled to France and claimed asylum it is quite likely I'd have my phone and credit card with me. Why should Syrian asylum seekers not? | |||
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"Be good for the Rich gulf states to help share the burden. Be good for Tony Blair to hang his head in shame and dip into HIS many millions to help now too...but I doubt he'd have the balls to publicly show his face now the chickens are coming home to roost. I hate the guy but how exactly is he responsible for the "Arab Spring" and the resulting Syrian civil war? " His meddling (both militarily and politically) in the region whilst PM, and his abject failure as a much-proclaimed MiddleEast Peace Envoy since. Saddam Hussain and Colonel Gadaffi were prize arseholes, but they kept an equilibrium and prevented the kind of carnage seen in those countries now. Syria has just followed the trend, meanwhile, in the vacuum, ISIS and all the various warring factions grow like wildfire and spread and intensify the carnage. The fallout of which, is people fleeing the regions. | |||
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"Have human beings learned anything from thousands of years of history, we are still the same, hatred, aggression, wars, causing suffering and lacking humanity. Technologically we have made great advances, but psychologically, we are still getting nowhere." . You have the ability to be moralistic because you live in luxury in the first world!. Turn the lights off, close some petrol stations and empty some food stores... We'll see how moralistic the uk really is?. Personally i think What we're seeing is the begining of overpopulation against dwindling resources! | |||
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"I've been thinking. I like this kind of chaos that's coming now, a lot of important things are being highlighted right now and people are being forced to face the realties we've forced onto other people who have been kept hidden for too long. It's all good and well having people post stuff on fb, the news and that, but now we're actually going to see what our leaders have done, see it for real coz these people are heading into countries, en masse, and they're real now. Let them in. 100% let in loads and spread them everywhere. Watch our leaders crumble coz they can't lead anyone, while we all take on the 'burden' as usual. I'd rather have people in need as a 'burden' than the rich greedy fucks who are taking everything right now." | |||
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"Be good for the Rich gulf states to help share the burden. Be good for Tony Blair to hang his head in shame and dip into HIS many millions to help now too...but I doubt he'd have the balls to publicly show his face now the chickens are coming home to roost. I hate the guy but how exactly is he responsible for the "Arab Spring" and the resulting Syrian civil war? His meddling (both militarily and politically) in the region whilst PM, and his abject failure as a much-proclaimed MiddleEast Peace Envoy since. Saddam Hussain and Colonel Gadaffi were prize arseholes, but they kept an equilibrium and prevented the kind of carnage seen in those countries now. Syria has just followed the trend, meanwhile, in the vacuum, ISIS and all the various warring factions grow like wildfire and spread and intensify the carnage. The fallout of which, is people fleeing the regions." . Let's get one thing straight Hussein and Assad killed just as many adults and children.... The only difference was You just didn't have to look at it | |||
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"Have human beings learned anything from thousands of years of history, we are still the same, hatred, aggression, wars, causing suffering and lacking humanity. Technologically we have made great advances, but psychologically, we are still getting nowhere.. You have the ability to be moralistic because you live in luxury in the first world!. Turn the lights off, close some petrol stations and empty some food stores... We'll see how moralistic the uk really is?. Personally i think What we're seeing is the begining of overpopulation against dwindling resources! " I think you misunderstood my comment, I was speaking of the whole of human kind, but I agree about certain resources dwindling, but it's possibly a distribution of wealth problem and over consumption in the rich countries. | |||
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"I've been thinking. I like this kind of chaos that's coming now, a lot of important things are being highlighted right now and people are being forced to face the realties we've forced onto other people who have been kept hidden for too long. It's all good and well having people post stuff on fb, the news and that, but now we're actually going to see what our leaders have done, see it for real coz these people are heading into countries, en masse, and they're real now. Let them in. 100% let in loads and spread them everywhere. Watch our leaders crumble coz they can't lead anyone, while we all take on the 'burden' as usual. I'd rather have people in need as a 'burden' than the rich greedy fucks who are taking everything right now."
Yep!
Not even XFactor can draw people's attention away from this one! | |||
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"It's no different to the catholic/protestant battle or the Jewish/Palestinian one... Speaking of that, where's the moral outrage to the 4 million Palestinian refugees that are murdered every day by Jewish dictatorship.... Oh wait yes I remember now, they don't wash up dead on beach's on the cover of the paper for people to get all moralistic over morning breakfast!. There's one person on here that happened to brag about filling his giant American automobile up for 20 dollars only 4 months ago! ... And now seems completely astonished by the middle East crises that allows him to fill up his automobile for 20 dollars. Anyone that has utter belief in "the good book" are always going to be easily lead 4 million murdered every day? Not even you believe that one. It's back to statistics 101 for you matey ". There's 4 million Palestinian refugees living in a shear fuck hole... Some of them get murdered every day and have done for 40 years!. I'm sure it's just the way you read it and not the way i wrote it... But I could be wrong | |||
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"Have human beings learned anything from thousands of years of history, we are still the same, hatred, aggression, wars, causing suffering and lacking humanity. Technologically we have made great advances, but psychologically, we are still getting nowhere.. You have the ability to be moralistic because you live in luxury in the first world!. Turn the lights off, close some petrol stations and empty some food stores... We'll see how moralistic the uk really is?. Personally i think What we're seeing is the begining of overpopulation against dwindling resources! I think you misunderstood my comment, I was speaking of the whole of human kind, but I agree about certain resources dwindling, but it's possibly a distribution of wealth problem and over consumption in the rich countries." The situation is not a lack of knowledge, understanding or compassion. It's 2 contradictory forces in the way the world works. 1) States must have sovereignty so their leaders are free to piss up their own country, follow the most idotic economic policies and we can't stop them 2) Populations that are forced to live subsistence lives while their rulers live it large will try to overthrow them. So which do you want? A world where we meddle and do our best to stop corrupt governments plundering countries that have more than enough wealth to sustain their population. Or a world where we mop up the mess after the corrupt government plundered the country and then faced rebellion, surprise surprise. Followed by eat, sleep and repeat. Or we could just ignore all the evidence and argue irrelevant doctrinal points indefinately which would let our leaders off the hook from making tough decisions. | |||
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"Be good for the Rich gulf states to help share the burden. Be good for Tony Blair to hang his head in shame and dip into HIS many millions to help now too...but I doubt he'd have the balls to publicly show his face now the chickens are coming home to roost. I hate the guy but how exactly is he responsible for the "Arab Spring" and the resulting Syrian civil war? His meddling (both militarily and politically) in the region whilst PM, and his abject failure as a much-proclaimed MiddleEast Peace Envoy since. Saddam Hussain and Colonel Gadaffi were prize arseholes, but they kept an equilibrium and prevented the kind of carnage seen in those countries now. Syria has just followed the trend, meanwhile, in the vacuum, ISIS and all the various warring factions grow like wildfire and spread and intensify the carnage. The fallout of which, is people fleeing the regions.. Let's get one thing straight Hussein and Assad killed just as many adults and children.... The only difference was You just didn't have to look at it" Correct. And I'm not defending them in any way shape or form. They were absolute wankers. It's just that all that has happened now is that the conflicts have grown and spread, affecting more people in a much more uncontrolled manner. What we're seeing is the result of that. I have no answers to the current crisis, but feel that Phoney Blair should be putting his hands DEEP into his very well-lined pockets to help out...the pockets he was busy lining up to be filled when he was supposed to be running this country on our behalf. What is Your solution to the crisis? | |||
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