FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Finger print, retina print, and DNA print everybody
Finger print, retina print, and DNA print everybody
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ive got nothing to hide and it could stop benefits tourists."
I also have nothing to hide, but that biometric info belongs to one person and one person alone.... If I break the law then yes, but up untill that point. No. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is it 1984 yet?"
You do realize that in order to get a visa to live/work in the UK, people have to give all this already, don't you? I had to make a special trip to give my biometric data for my visa.
And I am most certainly not a "benefits tourist." I'm not even allowed to claim any benefits - I pay taxes though
-Courtney |
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And just how long do you think it would take the soulless, money grabbing cock wombles currently in government to sell or pass that data on to their big business buddies to find yet more ways to squeeze money out of us in ever ingenious and invasive ways?  |
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says the person with no pics on profile
the answer is no to the retina and dna print
bad enough with finger print and taking your dna if you get arrested
was supposed to destroy after 5 years funny they are still using them to create profiles on people without there consent |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It could lead to a crime free country ..  "
How exactly?
Would you being on a database stop everyone from driving above the speed limit??
Yes I'll admit it's a sarky example but technically it is correct... |
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Op great idea but maybe we should just genetically test new born babies and where there is likely to be a medical issue in the life of that citizen which will cost money then just terminate?
and then sterilise the parents to prevent any more costly drains on the system.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I always wonder exactly what info they have anyway? eg we all happily put our finger prints into our iPhones to bypass passwords etc, I wonder if that info stays securely in your phone or if that info goes elsewhere?
Black Ops are watching ....  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It would cut down on illigal immigrants and crime by me"
Again, how exactly?
People with a pre disposition to criminal activity will still have those tendencies irrespective of what biometric info is held,
Illegal immigration - the clues in the definition, they will still try to enter the country illegally, and being illegal will probably have to work outside of the law. |
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"And just how long do you think it would take the soulless, money grabbing cock wombles currently in government to sell or pass that data on to their big business buddies to find yet more ways to squeeze money out of us in ever ingenious and invasive ways?
cock wombles  "
I was being restrained in my description  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it 1984 yet?
You do realize that in order to get a visa to live/work in the UK, people have to give all this already, don't you? I had to make a special trip to give my biometric data for my visa.
And I am most certainly not a "benefits tourist." I'm not even allowed to claim any benefits - I pay taxes though
-Courtney"
Bloodyy immigrants, coming over here and contributing positively to our economy and society |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"Ive got nothing to hide and it could stop benefits tourists."
What's a benefit tourist? 
Tourists don't get benefits.
Perhaps you mean health tourists? Or economic migrants?
Seriously dude, if you're going to be bigoted and xenophobic, at least know what it is you're against. |
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"Loads of immigrants in Surrey arnt there"
assuming that this is a response to my comment above etc..?
i don't know the figures for how many and where, actually i am of an immigrant background with my mum being Irish (dad Welsh too) so does that help..? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Ive got nothing to hide and it could stop benefits tourists."
What benefits tourists? Do you have a working knowledge of the UK benefits system? If so you know that people from outside the EU have "no recourse to public funds" which means they cant claim benefits. EU citizens dont have the rights to benefits as they dont meet the habitual residency test (ie they dont live in this country). They can LOOK for work (and not claim benefits) for 3 months, after that they have to leave because they are not "exercising their treaty rights". So in that 3 months they dont get any money from the UK government, if they Do get a job, they are paying taxes, not claiming benefits. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Is it 1984 yet?
You do realize that in order to get a visa to live/work in the UK, people have to give all this already, don't you? I had to make a special trip to give my biometric data for my visa.
And I am most certainly not a "benefits tourist." I'm not even allowed to claim any benefits - I pay taxes though
-Courtney
Bloodyy immigrants, coming over here and contributing positively to our economy and society"
Do you know the citizens of which country pay the highest amount of UK tax per head? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it 1984 yet?
You do realize that in order to get a visa to live/work in the UK, people have to give all this already, don't you? I had to make a special trip to give my biometric data for my visa.
And I am most certainly not a "benefits tourist." I'm not even allowed to claim any benefits - I pay taxes though
-Courtney
Bloodyy immigrants, coming over here and contributing positively to our economy and society"
I guess I should go home then  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it 1984 yet?
You do realize that in order to get a visa to live/work in the UK, people have to give all this already, don't you? I had to make a special trip to give my biometric data for my visa.
And I am most certainly not a "benefits tourist." I'm not even allowed to claim any benefits - I pay taxes though
-Courtney
Bloodyy immigrants, coming over here and contributing positively to our economy and society
Do you know the citizens of which country pay the highest amount of UK tax per head?"
Do tell. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Can we not mention the word Benefits or im going on a rant...
Im a single mum, work 40hrs a week, give my fecking finger print to clock in and out of work....
Struggle to pay the bills...
Dont live a lavish lifestyle...
Watch that programe on tv
Want to through the remote at the tv
When people on benefits live in a nice house etc
Pisses me the fuck off !!!!
Oh I really want to rant !!!
I actually feel like the goverment are punishing me for getting up out of bed and supporting me and my two kids !!!!!
Gggrrrrrrrr !! |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Is it 1984 yet?
You do realize that in order to get a visa to live/work in the UK, people have to give all this already, don't you? I had to make a special trip to give my biometric data for my visa.
And I am most certainly not a "benefits tourist." I'm not even allowed to claim any benefits - I pay taxes though
-Courtney
Bloodyy immigrants, coming over here and contributing positively to our economy and society
Do you know the citizens of which country pay the highest amount of UK tax per head?
Do tell. "
Sorry Courtney, its the Yanks! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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oh yeah! And a tattooed barcode on your neck for ID purposes and a dirty big anal microchip with all your data encoded, so you won't need a passport or NI number or anything else ... All they need to do is probe you to analyse everything. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ive got nothing to hide and it could stop benefits tourists.
What benefits tourists? Do you have a working knowledge of the UK benefits system? If so you know that people from outside the EU have "no recourse to public funds" which means they cant claim benefits. EU citizens dont have the rights to benefits as they dont meet the habitual residency test (ie they dont live in this country). They can LOOK for work (and not claim benefits) for 3 months, after that they have to leave because they are not "exercising their treaty rights". So in that 3 months they dont get any money from the UK government, if they Do get a job, they are paying taxes, not claiming benefits."
Thats not entirely true though is it? Because according to the Gov'ts own website one of the eligibility tests is 'looking for work' which could make them eligible for some benefits - admittedly not the full range, but still some benefit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it 1984 yet?
You do realize that in order to get a visa to live/work in the UK, people have to give all this already, don't you? I had to make a special trip to give my biometric data for my visa.
And I am most certainly not a "benefits tourist." I'm not even allowed to claim any benefits - I pay taxes though
-Courtney
Bloodyy immigrants, coming over here and contributing positively to our economy and society
Do you know the citizens of which country pay the highest amount of UK tax per head?
Do tell.
Sorry Courtney, its the Yanks! "
Figures. And they added an NHS surcharge to my visa renewal too, which is gunna cost me and Marc a few hundred quid each because the UK government see us as "health tourists" too. I've only been to the doctor once for an allergy issue the entire time I've been here.
-Courtney |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Ive got nothing to hide and it could stop benefits tourists.
What benefits tourists? Do you have a working knowledge of the UK benefits system? If so you know that people from outside the EU have "no recourse to public funds" which means they cant claim benefits. EU citizens dont have the rights to benefits as they dont meet the habitual residency test (ie they dont live in this country). They can LOOK for work (and not claim benefits) for 3 months, after that they have to leave because they are not "exercising their treaty rights". So in that 3 months they dont get any money from the UK government, if they Do get a job, they are paying taxes, not claiming benefits.
Thats not entirely true though is it? Because according to the Gov'ts own website one of the eligibility tests is 'looking for work' which could make them eligible for some benefits - admittedly not the full range, but still some benefit. "
Which benefits do you think they are entitled to? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ive got nothing to hide and it could stop benefits tourists.
What benefits tourists? Do you have a working knowledge of the UK benefits system? If so you know that people from outside the EU have "no recourse to public funds" which means they cant claim benefits. EU citizens dont have the rights to benefits as they dont meet the habitual residency test (ie they dont live in this country). They can LOOK for work (and not claim benefits) for 3 months, after that they have to leave because they are not "exercising their treaty rights". So in that 3 months they dont get any money from the UK government, if they Do get a job, they are paying taxes, not claiming benefits.
Thats not entirely true though is it? Because according to the Gov'ts own website one of the eligibility tests is 'looking for work' which could make them eligible for some benefits - admittedly not the full range, but still some benefit.
Which benefits do you think they are entitled to? "
An Eu migrant can claim jobseekers allowance. There are some conditions I admit, but you stated they can LOOK for work (but not claim benefits), but actually they can claim jobseekers allowance. |
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"An Eu migrant can claim jobseekers allowance. There are some conditions I admit, but you stated they can LOOK for work (but not claim benefits), but actually they can claim jobseekers allowance. "
surely that a sensible thing though.?
it does show they are looking for work and assists them in that and when they get a job they will pay tax and NI so a win win.. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Ive got nothing to hide and it could stop benefits tourists.
What benefits tourists? Do you have a working knowledge of the UK benefits system? If so you know that people from outside the EU have "no recourse to public funds" which means they cant claim benefits. EU citizens dont have the rights to benefits as they dont meet the habitual residency test (ie they dont live in this country). They can LOOK for work (and not claim benefits) for 3 months, after that they have to leave because they are not "exercising their treaty rights". So in that 3 months they dont get any money from the UK government, if they Do get a job, they are paying taxes, not claiming benefits.
Thats not entirely true though is it? Because according to the Gov'ts own website one of the eligibility tests is 'looking for work' which could make them eligible for some benefits - admittedly not the full range, but still some benefit.
Which benefits do you think they are entitled to?
An Eu migrant can claim jobseekers allowance. There are some conditions I admit, but you stated they can LOOK for work (but not claim benefits), but actually they can claim jobseekers allowance. "
Not when they first get here they cant because the dont meet the habitual residency test. The JSA (Habitual Residence) Amendment Regulations 2013 states:
No claimant shall be treated as habitually resident in the UK... Unless-
A) the claimant has been living in the UK for the past 3 months and
B) the claimant has a right to reside in the UK.
If you are an EU national (really a citizen from the EEA + Switzerland, but I'll use EU as its shorter) you can come to the UK for 3 months, be a tourist, look for work, study etc. But after 3 months, if you arent actually exercising a Treaty Right (such as working) you have to leave. If you're not exercising a treaty right, you do not have residency in the UK, so you cant claim benefits. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ive got nothing to hide and it could stop benefits tourists.
What benefits tourists? Do you have a working knowledge of the UK benefits system? If so you know that people from outside the EU have "no recourse to public funds" which means they cant claim benefits. EU citizens dont have the rights to benefits as they dont meet the habitual residency test (ie they dont live in this country). They can LOOK for work (and not claim benefits) for 3 months, after that they have to leave because they are not "exercising their treaty rights". So in that 3 months they dont get any money from the UK government, if they Do get a job, they are paying taxes, not claiming benefits.
Thats not entirely true though is it? Because according to the Gov'ts own website one of the eligibility tests is 'looking for work' which could make them eligible for some benefits - admittedly not the full range, but still some benefit.
Which benefits do you think they are entitled to?
An Eu migrant can claim jobseekers allowance. There are some conditions I admit, but you stated they can LOOK for work (but not claim benefits), but actually they can claim jobseekers allowance.
Not when they first get here they cant because the dont meet the habitual residency test. The JSA (Habitual Residence) Amendment Regulations 2013 states:
No claimant shall be treated as habitually resident in the UK... Unless-
A) the claimant has been living in the UK for the past 3 months and
B) the claimant has a right to reside in the UK.
If you are an EU national (really a citizen from the EEA + Switzerland, but I'll use EU as its shorter) you can come to the UK for 3 months, be a tourist, look for work, study etc. But after 3 months, if you arent actually exercising a Treaty Right (such as working) you have to leave. If you're not exercising a treaty right, you do not have residency in the UK, so you cant claim benefits."
Actually you are correct on the three months before claiming jobseekers, I was looking at a old pdf file prior to 1st of Jan 2014 when a number of rules changed, but I will take you up on the three months then you have to leave, they do not have to oeace if they pass the residency test and are looking for work with a reasonable chance of gaining employment, they can stay longer. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ive got nothing to hide and it could stop benefits tourists.
What benefits tourists? Do you have a working knowledge of the UK benefits system? If so you know that people from outside the EU have "no recourse to public funds" which means they cant claim benefits. EU citizens dont have the rights to benefits as they dont meet the habitual residency test (ie they dont live in this country). They can LOOK for work (and not claim benefits) for 3 months, after that they have to leave because they are not "exercising their treaty rights". So in that 3 months they dont get any money from the UK government, if they Do get a job, they are paying taxes, not claiming benefits.
Thats not entirely true though is it? Because according to the Gov'ts own website one of the eligibility tests is 'looking for work' which could make them eligible for some benefits - admittedly not the full range, but still some benefit.
Which benefits do you think they are entitled to?
An Eu migrant can claim jobseekers allowance. There are some conditions I admit, but you stated they can LOOK for work (but not claim benefits), but actually they can claim jobseekers allowance.
Not when they first get here they cant because the dont meet the habitual residency test. The JSA (Habitual Residence) Amendment Regulations 2013 states:
No claimant shall be treated as habitually resident in the UK... Unless-
A) the claimant has been living in the UK for the past 3 months and
B) the claimant has a right to reside in the UK.
If you are an EU national (really a citizen from the EEA + Switzerland, but I'll use EU as its shorter) you can come to the UK for 3 months, be a tourist, look for work, study etc. But after 3 months, if you arent actually exercising a Treaty Right (such as working) you have to leave. If you're not exercising a treaty right, you do not have residency in the UK, so you cant claim benefits.
Actually you are correct on the three months before claiming jobseekers, I was looking at a old pdf file prior to 1st of Jan 2014 when a number of rules changed, but I will take you up on the three months then you have to leave, they do not have to oeace if they pass the residency test and are looking for work with a reasonable chance of gaining employment, they can stay longer. "
But this is proving the point. Those who follow the rules have to jump through hoops, even if they are allowed to claim any benefits (which anyone outside the EU can't even do). And those who act illegally are already illegal.
I think the UK government has done a pretty good job of protecting the benefits system from most immigrants. No offense meant, but perhaps UK citizens will have to realize it is them, not immigrants, who misuse their own benefits system. Just a thought.
-Courtney |
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"It could lead to a crime free country ..
How exactly?
Would you being on a database stop everyone from driving above the speed limit??
Yes I'll admit it's a sarky example but technically it is correct... "
it would reduce personal crime .. Assaults .burglaries.. Rapes .. And make forensic identified individuals easier to tra ck down. Not electronic fraud .. .. Back to the speeding.. If you're already known and have nine points or so the threat of getting more is a deterrent from getting disqualified by speeding  |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
Hardjohn i think people will loose the will to live if we carry on in this fashion but it has been fun.
I think you are right, they can stay longer than the 3 months, IF they are spending as much time per week (there are exceptions!) searching for a job, as they are hoping to gain in employment. So if they want a 35hr per week job, they have to prove they spend 35hrs per week job hunting, if they want to stay passed the 3 months. But as far as I am aware they still can't claim benefits.
So as Courtney has said, the UK is quite well protected from benefit tourism. Much better than most British people would be lead to believe. |
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Liberty and freedom have been hard fought for. Benefit tourism is a scare story, part of divide and conquer tactics.
It's the most inappropriate response to a non-event, to introduce even greater mass population control. You'd need to be stupid or clueless to want this. |
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By *icky999Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"Is it 1984 yet?
You do realize that in order to get a visa to live/work in the UK, people have to give all this already, don't you? I had to make a special trip to give my biometric data for my visa.
And I am most certainly not a "benefits tourist." I'm not even allowed to claim any benefits - I pay taxes though
-Courtney
Bloodyy immigrants, coming over here and contributing positively to our economy and society
Do you know the citizens of which country pay the highest amount of UK tax per head?
Do tell.
Sorry Courtney, its the Yanks!
Figures. And they added an NHS surcharge to my visa renewal too, which is gunna cost me and Marc a few hundred quid each because the UK government see us as "health tourists" too. I've only been to the doctor once for an allergy issue the entire time I've been here.
-Courtney"
cost? dont you mean save. it'd cost you a couple of hundred a month for health insurance in the states. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it 1984 yet?
You do realize that in order to get a visa to live/work in the UK, people have to give all this already, don't you? I had to make a special trip to give my biometric data for my visa.
And I am most certainly not a "benefits tourist." I'm not even allowed to claim any benefits - I pay taxes though
-Courtney
Bloodyy immigrants, coming over here and contributing positively to our economy and society
Do you know the citizens of which country pay the highest amount of UK tax per head?
Do tell.
Sorry Courtney, its the Yanks!
Figures. And they added an NHS surcharge to my visa renewal too, which is gunna cost me and Marc a few hundred quid each because the UK government see us as "health tourists" too. I've only been to the doctor once for an allergy issue the entire time I've been here.
-Courtney
cost? dont you mean save. it'd cost you a couple of hundred a month for health insurance in the states. "
I have yet to meet a British person who understands the American health care system (or lack thereof). I suggest we avoid this topic.
But to answer your question, no, I said, and meant "cost." I paid nothing for health insurance in the US. My job, like most American's jobs, paid for it.
-Courtney |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it 1984 yet?
You do realize that in order to get a visa to live/work in the UK, people have to give all this already, don't you? I had to make a special trip to give my biometric data for my visa.
And I am most certainly not a "benefits tourist." I'm not even allowed to claim any benefits - I pay taxes though
-Courtney
Bloodyy immigrants, coming over here and contributing positively to our economy and society
Do you know the citizens of which country pay the highest amount of UK tax per head?
Do tell.
Sorry Courtney, its the Yanks!
Figures. And they added an NHS surcharge to my visa renewal too, which is gunna cost me and Marc a few hundred quid each because the UK government see us as "health tourists" too. I've only been to the doctor once for an allergy issue the entire time I've been here.
-Courtney
cost? dont you mean save. it'd cost you a couple of hundred a month for health insurance in the states.
I have yet to meet a British person who understands the American health care system (or lack thereof). I suggest we avoid this topic.
But to answer your question, no, I said, and meant "cost." I paid nothing for health insurance in the US. My job, like most American's jobs, paid for it.
-Courtney"
.
That's some sort of crazy logic |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it 1984 yet?
You do realize that in order to get a visa to live/work in the UK, people have to give all this already, don't you? I had to make a special trip to give my biometric data for my visa.
And I am most certainly not a "benefits tourist." I'm not even allowed to claim any benefits - I pay taxes though
-Courtney
Bloodyy immigrants, coming over here and contributing positively to our economy and society
Do you know the citizens of which country pay the highest amount of UK tax per head?
Do tell.
Sorry Courtney, its the Yanks!
Figures. And they added an NHS surcharge to my visa renewal too, which is gunna cost me and Marc a few hundred quid each because the UK government see us as "health tourists" too. I've only been to the doctor once for an allergy issue the entire time I've been here.
-Courtney
cost? dont you mean save. it'd cost you a couple of hundred a month for health insurance in the states.
I have yet to meet a British person who understands the American health care system (or lack thereof). I suggest we avoid this topic.
But to answer your question, no, I said, and meant "cost." I paid nothing for health insurance in the US. My job, like most American's jobs, paid for it.
-Courtney.
That's some sort of crazy logic "
What's crazy about it? My employer provided health care as a worker's benefit. What is crazy about that? I had a health insurance plan, which my employer paid for... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
If it's mandatory I'd have an issue only because I don't like being told what to do.
My finger prints are on the system as when I was in primary school the police came in to do a "special talk" and we all got to "play" at having our finger prints taken.
However I don't intend on committing any crimes so I'm fine for them to be on record, I'd have just preferred to make an educated choice rather than being duped. |
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By *icky999Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"Ive got nothing to hide and it could stop benefits tourists.
What benefits tourists? Do you have a working knowledge of the UK benefits system? If so you know that people from outside the EU have "no recourse to public funds" which means they cant claim benefits. EU citizens dont have the rights to benefits as they dont meet the habitual residency test (ie they dont live in this country). They can LOOK for work (and not claim benefits) for 3 months, after that they have to leave because they are not "exercising their treaty rights". So in that 3 months they dont get any money from the UK government, if they Do get a job, they are paying taxes, not claiming benefits.
Thats not entirely true though is it? Because according to the Gov'ts own website one of the eligibility tests is 'looking for work' which could make them eligible for some benefits - admittedly not the full range, but still some benefit.
Which benefits do you think they are entitled to?
An Eu migrant can claim jobseekers allowance. There are some conditions I admit, but you stated they can LOOK for work (but not claim benefits), but actually they can claim jobseekers allowance.
Not when they first get here they cant because the dont meet the habitual residency test. The JSA (Habitual Residence) Amendment Regulations 2013 states:
No claimant shall be treated as habitually resident in the UK... Unless-
A) the claimant has been living in the UK for the past 3 months and
B) the claimant has a right to reside in the UK.
If you are an EU national (really a citizen from the EEA + Switzerland, but I'll use EU as its shorter) you can come to the UK for 3 months, be a tourist, look for work, study etc. But after 3 months, if you arent actually exercising a Treaty Right (such as working) you have to leave. If you're not exercising a treaty right, you do not have residency in the UK, so you cant claim benefits.
Actually you are correct on the three months before claiming jobseekers, I was looking at a old pdf file prior to 1st of Jan 2014 when a number of rules changed, but I will take you up on the three months then you have to leave, they do not have to oeace if they pass the residency test and are looking for work with a reasonable chance of gaining employment, they can stay longer.
But this is proving the point. Those who follow the rules have to jump through hoops, even if they are allowed to claim any benefits (which anyone outside the EU can't even do). And those who act illegally are already illegal.
I think the UK government has done a pretty good job of protecting the benefits system from most immigrants. No offense meant, but perhaps UK citizens will have to realize it is them, not immigrants, who misuse their own benefits system. Just a thought.
-Courtney"
where do you get the balls to come to my country an tell us how to behave? if you dont like if go back home. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ive got nothing to hide and it could stop benefits tourists.
What benefits tourists? Do you have a working knowledge of the UK benefits system? If so you know that people from outside the EU have "no recourse to public funds" which means they cant claim benefits. EU citizens dont have the rights to benefits as they dont meet the habitual residency test (ie they dont live in this country). They can LOOK for work (and not claim benefits) for 3 months, after that they have to leave because they are not "exercising their treaty rights". So in that 3 months they dont get any money from the UK government, if they Do get a job, they are paying taxes, not claiming benefits.
Thats not entirely true though is it? Because according to the Gov'ts own website one of the eligibility tests is 'looking for work' which could make them eligible for some benefits - admittedly not the full range, but still some benefit.
Which benefits do you think they are entitled to?
An Eu migrant can claim jobseekers allowance. There are some conditions I admit, but you stated they can LOOK for work (but not claim benefits), but actually they can claim jobseekers allowance.
Not when they first get here they cant because the dont meet the habitual residency test. The JSA (Habitual Residence) Amendment Regulations 2013 states:
No claimant shall be treated as habitually resident in the UK... Unless-
A) the claimant has been living in the UK for the past 3 months and
B) the claimant has a right to reside in the UK.
If you are an EU national (really a citizen from the EEA + Switzerland, but I'll use EU as its shorter) you can come to the UK for 3 months, be a tourist, look for work, study etc. But after 3 months, if you arent actually exercising a Treaty Right (such as working) you have to leave. If you're not exercising a treaty right, you do not have residency in the UK, so you cant claim benefits.
Actually you are correct on the three months before claiming jobseekers, I was looking at a old pdf file prior to 1st of Jan 2014 when a number of rules changed, but I will take you up on the three months then you have to leave, they do not have to oeace if they pass the residency test and are looking for work with a reasonable chance of gaining employment, they can stay longer.
But this is proving the point. Those who follow the rules have to jump through hoops, even if they are allowed to claim any benefits (which anyone outside the EU can't even do). And those who act illegally are already illegal.
I think the UK government has done a pretty good job of protecting the benefits system from most immigrants. No offense meant, but perhaps UK citizens will have to realize it is them, not immigrants, who misuse their own benefits system. Just a thought.
-Courtney
where do you get the balls to come to my country an tell us how to behave? if you dont like if go back home. "
Ok. Thank you for your input there. |
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By *icky999Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"Is it 1984 yet?
You do realize that in order to get a visa to live/work in the UK, people have to give all this already, don't you? I had to make a special trip to give my biometric data for my visa.
And I am most certainly not a "benefits tourist." I'm not even allowed to claim any benefits - I pay taxes though
-Courtney
Bloodyy immigrants, coming over here and contributing positively to our economy and society
Do you know the citizens of which country pay the highest amount of UK tax per head?
Do tell.
Sorry Courtney, its the Yanks!
Figures. And they added an NHS surcharge to my visa renewal too, which is gunna cost me and Marc a few hundred quid each because the UK government see us as "health tourists" too. I've only been to the doctor once for an allergy issue the entire time I've been here.
-Courtney
cost? dont you mean save. it'd cost you a couple of hundred a month for health insurance in the states.
I have yet to meet a British person who understands the American health care system (or lack thereof). I suggest we avoid this topic.
But to answer your question, no, I said, and meant "cost." I paid nothing for health insurance in the US. My job, like most American's jobs, paid for it.
-Courtney.
That's some sort of crazy logic
What's crazy about it? My employer provided health care as a worker's benefit. What is crazy about that? I had a health insurance plan, which my employer paid for..."
and if they didnt youd want 2500 more a year in wages! its part of your package.
your the health tourist people are talking about |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it 1984 yet?
You do realize that in order to get a visa to live/work in the UK, people have to give all this already, don't you? I had to make a special trip to give my biometric data for my visa.
And I am most certainly not a "benefits tourist." I'm not even allowed to claim any benefits - I pay taxes though
-Courtney
Bloodyy immigrants, coming over here and contributing positively to our economy and society
Do you know the citizens of which country pay the highest amount of UK tax per head?
Do tell.
Sorry Courtney, its the Yanks!
Figures. And they added an NHS surcharge to my visa renewal too, which is gunna cost me and Marc a few hundred quid each because the UK government see us as "health tourists" too. I've only been to the doctor once for an allergy issue the entire time I've been here.
-Courtney
cost? dont you mean save. it'd cost you a couple of hundred a month for health insurance in the states.
I have yet to meet a British person who understands the American health care system (or lack thereof). I suggest we avoid this topic.
But to answer your question, no, I said, and meant "cost." I paid nothing for health insurance in the US. My job, like most American's jobs, paid for it.
-Courtney.
That's some sort of crazy logic
What's crazy about it? My employer provided health care as a worker's benefit. What is crazy about that? I had a health insurance plan, which my employer paid for...
and if they didnt youd want 2500 more a year in wages! its part of your package.
your the health tourist people are talking about "
You don't know anything about me. I haven't been insulting. I don't have a "package" either. This was an informed discussion. If you don't want to keep it that way, and prefer to insult me, go ahead. But do it knowing that I haven't done the same to you.
I did not come here for health care, so I am not a health tourist. I appreciate the UK health system, and generally find it superior to the US one. That doesn't mean I should be blamed for the NHS funding crisis. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it 1984 yet?
You do realize that in order to get a visa to live/work in the UK, people have to give all this already, don't you? I had to make a special trip to give my biometric data for my visa.
And I am most certainly not a "benefits tourist." I'm not even allowed to claim any benefits - I pay taxes though
-Courtney
Bloodyy immigrants, coming over here and contributing positively to our economy and society
Do you know the citizens of which country pay the highest amount of UK tax per head?
Do tell.
Sorry Courtney, its the Yanks!
Figures. And they added an NHS surcharge to my visa renewal too, which is gunna cost me and Marc a few hundred quid each because the UK government see us as "health tourists" too. I've only been to the doctor once for an allergy issue the entire time I've been here.
-Courtney
cost? dont you mean save. it'd cost you a couple of hundred a month for health insurance in the states.
I have yet to meet a British person who understands the American health care system (or lack thereof). I suggest we avoid this topic.
But to answer your question, no, I said, and meant "cost." I paid nothing for health insurance in the US. My job, like most American's jobs, paid for it.
-Courtney.
That's some sort of crazy logic
What's crazy about it? My employer provided health care as a worker's benefit. What is crazy about that? I had a health insurance plan, which my employer paid for..."
.
Well firstly there not doing it out of generosity, there paying you less than they would have done had they not included this plan!
And secondly this means the minute your unemployed you have no health care!.
And thirdly, just because a uk citizen abuses a UK benefit doesn't mean we should also allow that for any foreign citizen!
That would be like saying hey... We've got UK paedophiles... Let's let in some more paedophiles from other countries, I mean it's only fair.... The UK paedophiles have been doing it for years!.
Ok that's an extreme example but you follow the principle I'm pointing to?. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I haven't begun to insult you. these are facts. YOU said you had a package in the states. your patronising language was insulting. "
You haven't begun to insult me? Really? "where do you get the balls," "if you don't like it go back home," "you are a health tourist," to name a few?
My tone is a direct response to yours. Telling me I will save money when you don't know anything about the system I had before, is presumptuous. And wrong.
Yes, I did have a health care package in the US. I misunderstood you previous post. But whether I would have asked for more money had I not had it is irrelevant. I pay tax for health care services in this country, same as you. That is the equivalent to my employer provided health care benefits in the US. The added cost to my visa, however, which is directly relevant to this thread, is another example of xenophobia, which is what we were talking about prior to my having to defend my being in this country.
I did not come here for your health care services, and have barely used them while I have been here. But it is good to know how I am viewed in this country. Thank you for that.
-Courtney
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it 1984 yet?
You do realize that in order to get a visa to live/work in the UK, people have to give all this already, don't you? I had to make a special trip to give my biometric data for my visa.
And I am most certainly not a "benefits tourist." I'm not even allowed to claim any benefits - I pay taxes though
-Courtney
Bloodyy immigrants, coming over here and contributing positively to our economy and society
Do you know the citizens of which country pay the highest amount of UK tax per head?
Do tell.
Sorry Courtney, its the Yanks!
Figures. And they added an NHS surcharge to my visa renewal too, which is gunna cost me and Marc a few hundred quid each because the UK government see us as "health tourists" too. I've only been to the doctor once for an allergy issue the entire time I've been here.
-Courtney
cost? dont you mean save. it'd cost you a couple of hundred a month for health insurance in the states.
I have yet to meet a British person who understands the American health care system (or lack thereof). I suggest we avoid this topic.
But to answer your question, no, I said, and meant "cost." I paid nothing for health insurance in the US. My job, like most American's jobs, paid for it.
-Courtney.
That's some sort of crazy logic
What's crazy about it? My employer provided health care as a worker's benefit. What is crazy about that? I had a health insurance plan, which my employer paid for....
Well firstly there not doing it out of generosity, there paying you less than they would have done had they not included this plan!
And secondly this means the minute your unemployed you have no health care!.
And thirdly, just because a uk citizen abuses a UK benefit doesn't mean we should also allow that for any foreign citizen!
That would be like saying hey... We've got UK paedophiles... Let's let in some more paedophiles from other countries, I mean it's only fair.... The UK paedophiles have been doing it for years!.
Ok that's an extreme example but you follow the principle I'm pointing to?."
I actually got paid more for my job in the US than I do for the same job here. With or without health care.
I agree, the minute I lost my job I would have had no health care. Hence why the US health care system is awful and needs to be replaced.
I agree, also, a foreign citizen should not be able to abuse the benefit system. Hence the ENTIRE discussion above.
-Courtney |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
It's amazing what happens when people buy into tabloid scaremongering.
I imagine courtney is paying plenty of tax in the UK.
Nationalism is a poisonous thing. Get out in the wider world people and open your mind. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ive got nothing to hide and it could stop benefits tourists.
What benefits tourists? Do you have a working knowledge of the UK benefits system? If so you know that people from outside the EU have "no recourse to public funds" which means they cant claim benefits. EU citizens dont have the rights to benefits as they dont meet the habitual residency test (ie they dont live in this country). They can LOOK for work (and not claim benefits) for 3 months, after that they have to leave because they are not "exercising their treaty rights". So in that 3 months they dont get any money from the UK government, if they Do get a job, they are paying taxes, not claiming benefits.
Thats not entirely true though is it? Because according to the Gov'ts own website one of the eligibility tests is 'looking for work' which could make them eligible for some benefits - admittedly not the full range, but still some benefit.
Which benefits do you think they are entitled to?
An Eu migrant can claim jobseekers allowance. There are some conditions I admit, but you stated they can LOOK for work (but not claim benefits), but actually they can claim jobseekers allowance.
Not when they first get here they cant because the dont meet the habitual residency test. The JSA (Habitual Residence) Amendment Regulations 2013 states:
No claimant shall be treated as habitually resident in the UK... Unless-
A) the claimant has been living in the UK for the past 3 months and
B) the claimant has a right to reside in the UK.
If you are an EU national (really a citizen from the EEA + Switzerland, but I'll use EU as its shorter) you can come to the UK for 3 months, be a tourist, look for work, study etc. But after 3 months, if you arent actually exercising a Treaty Right (such as working) you have to leave. If you're not exercising a treaty right, you do not have residency in the UK, so you cant claim benefits.
Actually you are correct on the three months before claiming jobseekers, I was looking at a old pdf file prior to 1st of Jan 2014 when a number of rules changed, but I will take you up on the three months then you have to leave, they do not have to oeace if they pass the residency test and are looking for work with a reasonable chance of gaining employment, they can stay longer.
But this is proving the point. Those who follow the rules have to jump through hoops, even if they are allowed to claim any benefits (which anyone outside the EU can't even do). And those who act illegally are already illegal.
I think the UK government has done a pretty good job of protecting the benefits system from most immigrants. No offense meant, but perhaps UK citizens will have to realize it is them, not immigrants, who misuse their own benefits system. Just a thought.
-Courtney
where do you get the balls to come to my country an tell us how to behave? if you dont like if go back home. "
I dont think she has the balls...but using her brain...unlike many of the reactionary daily mail immo-mongerers..
fucking ridiculous response to be honest. |
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"They should pay into the system for a set amount of time first.. In the interim they should have their own health insurance."
Reduce the amount you are taxed depending on how healthy you are and how often you are likely to use the health service |
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By *icky999Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"Ricky999, someone coming to this country who is gainfully employed who might happen to need occassional health care is not a health care tourist."
some one who comes here and gets cheaper health care than back home and has the cheek to moan about paying a fraction surcharge is exactly what the forumits opinion. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"When I worked in the USA as a post doctoral fellow, I had to pay my own health insurance. I didn't mind one bit."
Good for you. Lucky you didn't have cancer.
-Courtney |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Working does not equal paying tax, and benefits does not only mean out of work. To suggest that Migrants from the EU cannot claim out of work benefits is plain wrong."
I thought Hardjohn and myself had thrashed this out fairly thoroughly, quoting legislation etc. But I am happy to continue if you would like to state which benefits and under which circumstances EEA nationals are able claim out of work benefits. Then we can debate it a little bit more |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Here we go, yawn. You are likely a paper snob who calls anyone patriotic a nazi nationalist. It's a shame."
Well if you want to see people living in a warzone or on the streets while you type away from the comfort of your home and housing them would have virtually no effect on your lifestyle then sure "it's a shame"
People are people...you think you are better for being british. If that is what being patriotic means to you, fine. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ricky999, someone coming to this country who is gainfully employed who might happen to need occassional health care is not a health care tourist.
some one who comes here and gets cheaper health care than back home and has the cheek to moan about paying a fraction surcharge is exactly what the forumits opinion. "
I will repeat, I had cheaper health care in the US. You are referring to people who pay for their own health care....that was not me. I received it on top of my salary (which, as I have already noted, was higher than it is here). So the 20% I currently pay is 20% more than I used to.
I do not complain about that 20% because I think the NHS is a good system, over all. I do, however, complain about the xenophobia inherent in the health surcharge to UK work visas.
-Courtney |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Ricky999, someone coming to this country who is gainfully employed who might happen to need occassional health care is not a health care tourist.
some one who comes here and gets cheaper health care than back home and has the cheek to moan about paying a fraction surcharge is exactly what the forumits opinion. "
But expressing an opinion on paying the surcharge doesn't make someone a health care tourist does it?
I've never met Courtney (as these thread seems to have got oddly specific) I have no idea if the sole reason she came to the UK was to get discount (not free because she says she pays a surcharge) health care or not. However I will take her at her word that that is not the case. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Sexybum, I cant see where Courtney has suggested that foreigners should be able to come and abuse the system "
.
I think it was the bit where she said that UK citizens abuse UK benefits more than foreigners, I'm not denying she's right what I was saying is
As my gran always said two wrongs don't make a right.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ricky999, someone coming to this country who is gainfully employed who might happen to need occassional health care is not a health care tourist.
some one who comes here and gets cheaper health care than back home and has the cheek to moan about paying a fraction surcharge is exactly what the forumits opinion.
But expressing an opinion on paying the surcharge doesn't make someone a health care tourist does it?
I've never met Courtney (as these thread seems to have got oddly specific) I have no idea if the sole reason she came to the UK was to get discount (not free because she says she pays a surcharge) health care or not. However I will take her at her word that that is not the case."
But the only reason anyone moved to the UK ever was for personal gain at the expense of the hardworking tax payers. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Sexybum, I cant see where Courtney has suggested that foreigners should be able to come and abuse the system .
I think it was the bit where she said that UK citizens abuse UK benefits more than foreigners, I'm not denying she's right what I was saying is
As my gran always said two wrongs don't make a right.
"
I did say that, you are correct. It is mostly UK citizens who are on benefits, not immigrants. I can probably look up some numbers if you want. That is what I was referring to. I at no point said, nor in my opinion implied, that foreigners should be able to abuse the system. |
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By *icky999Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"Ricky999, someone coming to this country who is gainfully employed who might happen to need occassional health care is not a health care tourist.
some one who comes here and gets cheaper health care than back home and has the cheek to moan about paying a fraction surcharge is exactly what the forumits opinion.
I will repeat, I had cheaper health care in the US. You are referring to people who pay for their own health care....that was not me. I received it on top of my salary (which, as I have already noted, was higher than it is here). So the 20% I currently pay is 20% more than I used to.
I do not complain about that 20% because I think the NHS is a good system, over all. I do, however, complain about the xenophobia inherent in the health surcharge to UK work visas.
-Courtney"
your health care was worth 2500? you got this instead of wages. if you hadnt youd of got more cash.
you pay 200 here.
200 is less than 2500. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ricky999, someone coming to this country who is gainfully employed who might happen to need occassional health care is not a health care tourist.
some one who comes here and gets cheaper health care than back home and has the cheek to moan about paying a fraction surcharge is exactly what the forumits opinion.
I will repeat, I had cheaper health care in the US. You are referring to people who pay for their own health care....that was not me. I received it on top of my salary (which, as I have already noted, was higher than it is here). So the 20% I currently pay is 20% more than I used to.
I do not complain about that 20% because I think the NHS is a good system, over all. I do, however, complain about the xenophobia inherent in the health surcharge to UK work visas.
-Courtney"
.
Out of curiosity, did your cheaper health care provided by your employer have unlimited expenditure? Ie... If you got cancer say and took a year off work and required multiple drugs and operations!.
I'm genuinely interested |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Sexybum, I cant see where Courtney has suggested that foreigners should be able to come and abuse the system .
I think it was the bit where she said that UK citizens abuse UK benefits more than foreigners, I'm not denying she's right what I was saying is
As my gran always said two wrongs don't make a right.
"
I thought she said essentially if they are breaking the law then they are breaking the law. It's not as though its a weakness in our benefits system, its just a crime.
I always think, tell me the name of the country without any criminals, without any jails or the need for a police force or judiciary and I'll go and live there. |
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By *icky999Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"Ricky999, someone coming to this country who is gainfully employed who might happen to need occassional health care is not a health care tourist.
some one who comes here and gets cheaper health care than back home and has the cheek to moan about paying a fraction surcharge is exactly what the forumits opinion.
But expressing an opinion on paying the surcharge doesn't make someone a health care tourist does it?
I've never met Courtney (as these thread seems to have got oddly specific) I have no idea if the sole reason she came to the UK was to get discount (not free because she says she pays a surcharge) health care or not. However I will take her at her word that that is not the case."
I didnt say she was a health tourist I said she was the health tourist the forumits are talkingabout.
she hasnt come here for the purposes of health care but she is getting it cheaper than in her own country. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ricky999, someone coming to this country who is gainfully employed who might happen to need occassional health care is not a health care tourist.
some one who comes here and gets cheaper health care than back home and has the cheek to moan about paying a fraction surcharge is exactly what the forumits opinion.
I will repeat, I had cheaper health care in the US. You are referring to people who pay for their own health care....that was not me. I received it on top of my salary (which, as I have already noted, was higher than it is here). So the 20% I currently pay is 20% more than I used to.
I do not complain about that 20% because I think the NHS is a good system, over all. I do, however, complain about the xenophobia inherent in the health surcharge to UK work visas.
-Courtney
your health care was worth 2500? you got this instead of wages. if you hadnt youd of got more cash.
you pay 200 here.
200 is less than 2500. "
Incorrect. The note about my wages is, again irrelevant. If you knew more about the US system, you would know that. I could not negotiate for more money instead of benefits. They are not monetized that way, necessarily.
Second, how do you even come up with your figures? couldn't figure out what my health care plan was worth, never mind someone who isn't even familiar with it.
And I pay far more than 200 here. I pay 20% of my salary, which is something I will keep private, thank you. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Sexybum, I cant see where Courtney has suggested that foreigners should be able to come and abuse the system .
I think it was the bit where she said that UK citizens abuse UK benefits more than foreigners, I'm not denying she's right what I was saying is
As my gran always said two wrongs don't make a right.
I thought she said essentially if they are breaking the law then they are breaking the law. It's not as though its a weakness in our benefits system, its just a crime.
I always think, tell me the name of the country without any criminals, without any jails or the need for a police force or judiciary and I'll go and live there. "
.
Iceland |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ha ha, as I predicted, a daily mail paper snob. I suggest you stop with the logical fallacies, engage brain, and discuss logically."
I'm a paper snob for growing up in some of the scummiest parts of glasgow..knowing then some people just didnt want to work and still dont(after 20years), this carried onto their children.
It was never about immigration and loss of jobs from foreigners..it was and can be such a simple life living off the state(I have in periods myself),however I have some pride in enjoying working and contributing.
Now they claim there are no jobs and they are all being taken by foreigners..when in fact many will turn a job down,get deliberately sacked etc etc
various tabloids have been exploiting this for years now..instead of reporting news, they would rather make it(or indeed make it up) |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Ricky999, someone coming to this country who is gainfully employed who might happen to need occassional health care is not a health care tourist.
some one who comes here and gets cheaper health care than back home and has the cheek to moan about paying a fraction surcharge is exactly what the forumits opinion.
But expressing an opinion on paying the surcharge doesn't make someone a health care tourist does it?
I've never met Courtney (as these thread seems to have got oddly specific) I have no idea if the sole reason she came to the UK was to get discount (not free because she says she pays a surcharge) health care or not. However I will take her at her word that that is not the case.
But the only reason anyone moved to the UK ever was for personal gain at the expense of the hardworking tax payers. "
Nah, my wife moved here cos I'm so fucking sexy |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ricky999, someone coming to this country who is gainfully employed who might happen to need occassional health care is not a health care tourist.
some one who comes here and gets cheaper health care than back home and has the cheek to moan about paying a fraction surcharge is exactly what the forumits opinion.
I will repeat, I had cheaper health care in the US. You are referring to people who pay for their own health care....that was not me. I received it on top of my salary (which, as I have already noted, was higher than it is here). So the 20% I currently pay is 20% more than I used to.
I do not complain about that 20% because I think the NHS is a good system, over all. I do, however, complain about the xenophobia inherent in the health surcharge to UK work visas.
-Courtney.
Out of curiosity, did your cheaper health care provided by your employer have unlimited expenditure? Ie... If you got cancer say and took a year off work and required multiple drugs and operations!.
I'm genuinely interested"
It is rather hard to explain. In the US, often, your employer offers you a benefits package. You then choose, from among the various plans available, which is right for you. Some are better for long term care, some are better for mobility (moving from state to state), some are better for people who have children.
Mine would have covered me for cancer, yes. I would rather not go into the other specifics, because they are personal. And I would like to repeat, I am not arguing that the US system is better. In fact, I think the exact opposite. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ha ha, as I predicted, a daily mail paper snob. I suggest you stop with the logical fallacies, engage brain, and discuss logically.
I'm a paper snob for growing up in some of the scummiest parts of glasgow..knowing then some people just didnt want to work and still dont(after 20years), this carried onto their children.
It was never about immigration and loss of jobs from foreigners..it was and can be such a simple life living off the state(I have in periods myself),however I have some pride in enjoying working and contributing.
Now they claim there are no jobs and they are all being taken by foreigners..when in fact many will turn a job down,get deliberately sacked etc etc
various tabloids have been exploiting this for years now..instead of reporting news, they would rather make it(or indeed make it up)"
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
I didnt say she was a health tourist I said she was the health tourist the forumits are talkingabout.
she hasnt come here for the purposes of health care but she is getting it cheaper than in her own country. "
Sorry you lost me on the first bit, if she isnt a HT, then how can she be the HT others are talking about?
On the second bit, she says she's not using it, so not using a health care system in the UK costs nothing, not using a healthcare system in the US also costs nothing, so its not really much of a saving. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
I always think, tell me the name of the country without any criminals, without any jails or the need for a police force or judiciary and I'll go and live there. .
Iceland"
Iceland the country has all those things, but I'm pretty sure Iceland the supermarket has none of those. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"@ Courtney
You are wasting your time explaining yourself. Logic wont work with people looking through a very narrow lens.
"
I think you may be right. And I am tired. So I think I will head off to bed.
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By *icky999Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"
I didnt say she was a health tourist I said she was the health tourist the forumits are talkingabout.
she hasnt come here for the purposes of health care but she is getting it cheaper than in her own country.
Sorry you lost me on the first bit, if she isnt a HT, then how can she be the HT others are talking about?
because that is there wrong opinion.they mean imigrants in general not sumbody flying in to give birth.
On the second bit, she says she's not using it, so not using a health care system in the UK costs nothing, not using a healthcare system in the US also costs nothing, so its not really much of a saving."
now your being silly. the ambulance is still parked up waiting for her.. etc etc
it cost $4500 for health care in us she said it cost her and her felka a few hundred hear. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ricky999, someone coming to this country who is gainfully employed who might happen to need occassional health care is not a health care tourist.
some one who comes here and gets cheaper health care than back home and has the cheek to moan about paying a fraction surcharge is exactly what the forumits opinion.
I will repeat, I had cheaper health care in the US. You are referring to people who pay for their own health care....that was not me. I received it on top of my salary (which, as I have already noted, was higher than it is here). So the 20% I currently pay is 20% more than I used to.
I do not complain about that 20% because I think the NHS is a good system, over all. I do, however, complain about the xenophobia inherent in the health surcharge to UK work visas.
-Courtney.
Out of curiosity, did your cheaper health care provided by your employer have unlimited expenditure? Ie... If you got cancer say and took a year off work and required multiple drugs and operations!.
I'm genuinely interested
It is rather hard to explain. In the US, often, your employer offers you a benefits package. You then choose, from among the various plans available, which is right for you. Some are better for long term care, some are better for mobility (moving from state to state), some are better for people who have children.
Mine would have covered me for cancer, yes. I would rather not go into the other specifics, because they are personal. And I would like to repeat, I am not arguing that the US system is better. In fact, I think the exact opposite."
.
No I was interested as I've been doing quite a bit of reading up on Bernie sanders and he seems to think that America would be better off with a single payer system?.
Me I've never had a problem with the NHS,I pay my NI,I go in and use when I need it.
I'd rather keep profit out of health care for the obvious reasons that profit derived businesses obviously have a.... Leaning to profit and not health care |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I didnt say she was a health tourist I said she was the health tourist the forumits are talkingabout.
she hasnt come here for the purposes of health care but she is getting it cheaper than in her own country.
Sorry you lost me on the first bit, if she isnt a HT, then how can she be the HT others are talking about?
because that is there wrong opinion.they mean imigrants in general not sumbody flying in to give birth.
On the second bit, she says she's not using it, so not using a health care system in the UK costs nothing, not using a healthcare system in the US also costs nothing, so its not really much of a saving.
now your being silly. the ambulance is still parked up waiting for her.. etc etc
it cost $4500 for health care in us she said it cost her and her felka a few hundred hear."
I didn't say that. I think I said a few million times that the "few hundred" is only the visa surcharge. I still pay the same 20% everyone pays out of their salary.
I am going to go to sleep now, but please, if you are going to continue this, please get what I said correct. Otherwise you are arguing with a figment of your imagination.
-Courtney |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ricky999, someone coming to this country who is gainfully employed who might happen to need occassional health care is not a health care tourist.
some one who comes here and gets cheaper health care than back home and has the cheek to moan about paying a fraction surcharge is exactly what the forumits opinion.
I will repeat, I had cheaper health care in the US. You are referring to people who pay for their own health care....that was not me. I received it on top of my salary (which, as I have already noted, was higher than it is here). So the 20% I currently pay is 20% more than I used to.
I do not complain about that 20% because I think the NHS is a good system, over all. I do, however, complain about the xenophobia inherent in the health surcharge to UK work visas.
-Courtney.
Out of curiosity, did your cheaper health care provided by your employer have unlimited expenditure? Ie... If you got cancer say and took a year off work and required multiple drugs and operations!.
I'm genuinely interested
It is rather hard to explain. In the US, often, your employer offers you a benefits package. You then choose, from among the various plans available, which is right for you. Some are better for long term care, some are better for mobility (moving from state to state), some are better for people who have children.
Mine would have covered me for cancer, yes. I would rather not go into the other specifics, because they are personal. And I would like to repeat, I am not arguing that the US system is better. In fact, I think the exact opposite..
No I was interested as I've been doing quite a bit of reading up on Bernie sanders and he seems to think that America would be better off with a single payer system?.
Me I've never had a problem with the NHS,I pay my NI,I go in and use when I need it.
I'd rather keep profit out of health care for the obvious reasons that profit derived businesses obviously have a.... Leaning to profit and not health care"
I completely agree with you, and I adore Bernie Sanders He is right in my opinion. The US would be better off with a single payer system. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I always think, tell me the name of the country without any criminals, without any jails or the need for a police force or judiciary and I'll go and live there. .
Iceland
Iceland the country has all those things, but I'm pretty sure Iceland the supermarket has none of those. "
.Have you ever visited..
No..
There's no crime in Iceland... There just nuts.
You can knock on the prime minster front door and tell him what you think of his policies face to face, that usually stops them from acting like egotistical tits. |
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By *icky999Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"Ricky999, someone coming to this country who is gainfully employed who might happen to need occassional health care is not a health care tourist.
some one who comes here and gets cheaper health care than back home and has the cheek to moan about paying a fraction surcharge is exactly what the forumits opinion.
I will repeat, I had cheaper health care in the US. You are referring to people who pay for their own health care....that was not me. I received it on top of my salary (which, as I have already noted, was higher than it is here). So the 20% I currently pay is 20% more than I used to.
I do not complain about that 20% because I think the NHS is a good system, over all. I do, however, complain about the xenophobia inherent in the health surcharge to UK work visas.
-Courtney
your health care was worth 2500? you got this instead of wages. if you hadnt youd of got more cash.
you pay 200 here.
200 is less than 2500.
Incorrect. The note about my wages is, again irrelevant. If you knew more about the US system, you would know that. I could not negotiate for more money instead of benefits. They are not monetized that way, necessarily.your being ridiculous, your health care formed part of your renumeration. if you didnt get it youd get paid more at a different company.
Second, how do you even come up with your figures? couldn't figure out what my health care plan was worth, never mind someone who isn't even familiar with it. I went off the average. is there a reason your arguing if you havent got a clue?
And I pay far more than 200 here. I pay 20% of my salary, which is something I will keep private, thank you."
well YOU said a few hundred. your nhs surcharge is 20% on a 20 wage thats 4k. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ricky999, someone coming to this country who is gainfully employed who might happen to need occassional health care is not a health care tourist.
some one who comes here and gets cheaper health care than back home and has the cheek to moan about paying a fraction surcharge is exactly what the forumits opinion.
I will repeat, I had cheaper health care in the US. You are referring to people who pay for their own health care....that was not me. I received it on top of my salary (which, as I have already noted, was higher than it is here). So the 20% I currently pay is 20% more than I used to.
I do not complain about that 20% because I think the NHS is a good system, over all. I do, however, complain about the xenophobia inherent in the health surcharge to UK work visas.
-Courtney
your health care was worth 2500? you got this instead of wages. if you hadnt youd of got more cash.
you pay 200 here.
200 is less than 2500.
Incorrect. The note about my wages is, again irrelevant. If you knew more about the US system, you would know that. I could not negotiate for more money instead of benefits. They are not monetized that way, necessarily.your being ridiculous, your health care formed part of your renumeration. if you didnt get it youd get paid more at a different company.
Second, how do you even come up with your figures? couldn't figure out what my health care plan was worth, never mind someone who isn't even familiar with it. I went off the average. is there a reason your arguing if you havent got a clue?
And I pay far more than 200 here. I pay 20% of my salary, which is something I will keep private, thank you. well YOU said a few hundred. your nhs surcharge is 20% on a 20 wage thats 4k."
I think you need to read up on this more. The health surcharge is applicable to visas. That is a few hundred each. The 20% is the standard NI tax. I don't have a problem with the NI tax. It is the surcharge on the visa I find xenophobic.
How do you know I make 20k? Bit presumptuous of you to base my health care costs on YOUR fictitious salary figures. And for that matter, you still don't have a clue how much my US health care package was worth, so you are in no position to say what cost me more. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Who said anything about refugees? Typical of a leftard who is losing an argument... Mention something totally unrelated. Sit back, read the guardian some more, and make sure you "vote for Corbyn""
They are related subjects.
I've never read the guardian and rarely read any papers full stop.
I have a scrap of humanity and can think for myself, that's all.
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Working does not equal paying tax, and benefits does not only mean out of work. To suggest that Migrants from the EU cannot claim out of work benefits is plain wrong.
I thought Hardjohn and myself had thrashed this out fairly thoroughly, quoting legislation etc. But I am happy to continue if you would like to state which benefits and under which circumstances EEA nationals are able claim out of work benefits. Then we can debate it a little bit more "
No? Changed your mind? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ive got nothing to hide and it could stop benefits tourists."
But if you sample everyone then you may find that actually these markers are not unique, 2 in 1000,ooo,ooo matches would make all biometric convictions unsafe legally invalidating the whole system |
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By *icky999Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"Ricky999, someone coming to this country who is gainfully employed who might happen to need occassional health care is not a health care tourist.
some one who comes here and gets cheaper health care than back home and has the cheek to moan about paying a fraction surcharge is exactly what the forumits opinion.
I will repeat, I had cheaper health care in the US. You are referring to people who pay for their own health care....that was not me. I received it on top of my salary (which, as I have already noted, was higher than it is here). So the 20% I currently pay is 20% more than I used to.
I do not complain about that 20% because I think the NHS is a good system, over all. I do, however, complain about the xenophobia inherent in the health surcharge to UK work visas.
-Courtney
your health care was worth 2500? you got this instead of wages. if you hadnt youd of got more cash.
you pay 200 here.
200 is less than 2500.
Incorrect. The note about my wages is, again irrelevant. If you knew more about the US system, you would know that. I could not negotiate for more money instead of benefits. They are not monetized that way, necessarily.your being ridiculous, your health care formed part of your renumeration. if you didnt get it youd get paid more at a different company.
Second, how do you even come up with your figures? couldn't figure out what my health care plan was worth, never mind someone who isn't even familiar with it. I went off the average. is there a reason your arguing if you havent got a clue?
And I pay far more than 200 here. I pay 20% of my salary, which is something I will keep private, thank you. well YOU said a few hundred. your nhs surcharge is 20% on a 20 wage thats 4k.
I think you need to read up on this more. The health surcharge is applicable to visas. That is a few hundred each. The 20% is the standard NI tax. I don't have a problem with the NI tax. It is the surcharge on the visa I find xenophobic.
How do you know I make 20k? Bit presumptuous of you to base my health care costs on YOUR fictitious salary figures. And for that matter, you still don't have a clue how much my US health care package was worth, so you are in no position to say what cost me more. "
ive been explaining for hours. it wont go into your head.
show me the money. if you cant show how much you pay here and how much you pay there I can only assume you know your wrong. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ricky999, someone coming to this country who is gainfully employed who might happen to need occassional health care is not a health care tourist.
some one who comes here and gets cheaper health care than back home and has the cheek to moan about paying a fraction surcharge is exactly what the forumits opinion.
I will repeat, I had cheaper health care in the US. You are referring to people who pay for their own health care....that was not me. I received it on top of my salary (which, as I have already noted, was higher than it is here). So the 20% I currently pay is 20% more than I used to.
I do not complain about that 20% because I think the NHS is a good system, over all. I do, however, complain about the xenophobia inherent in the health surcharge to UK work visas.
-Courtney
your health care was worth 2500? you got this instead of wages. if you hadnt youd of got more cash.
you pay 200 here.
200 is less than 2500.
Incorrect. The note about my wages is, again irrelevant. If you knew more about the US system, you would know that. I could not negotiate for more money instead of benefits. They are not monetized that way, necessarily.your being ridiculous, your health care formed part of your renumeration. if you didnt get it youd get paid more at a different company.
Second, how do you even come up with your figures? couldn't figure out what my health care plan was worth, never mind someone who isn't even familiar with it. I went off the average. is there a reason your arguing if you havent got a clue?
And I pay far more than 200 here. I pay 20% of my salary, which is something I will keep private, thank you. well YOU said a few hundred. your nhs surcharge is 20% on a 20 wage thats 4k.
I think you need to read up on this more. The health surcharge is applicable to visas. That is a few hundred each. The 20% is the standard NI tax. I don't have a problem with the NI tax. It is the surcharge on the visa I find xenophobic.
How do you know I make 20k? Bit presumptuous of you to base my health care costs on YOUR fictitious salary figures. And for that matter, you still don't have a clue how much my US health care package was worth, so you are in no position to say what cost me more.
ive been explaining for hours. it wont go into your head.
show me the money. if you cant show how much you pay here and how much you pay there I can only assume you know your wrong. "
So unless I divulge my salary information to you on a public forum, then I "know I'm wrong?" Ok, I guess we can leave it here then. With you knowing I know I'm wrong, and me knowing that you are wrong. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ive got nothing to hide and it could stop benefits tourists.
What's a benefit tourist?
Tourists don't get benefits.
Perhaps you mean health tourists? Or economic migrants?
Seriously dude, if you're going to be bigoted and xenophobic, at least know what it is you're against. "
It is one of her those nice buzz words the media has thought up to label immigrants, that come over here claim here benefits then go back to their country. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"no just how much you paid for health care in the us and how much the surcharge is here. two pretty simple figure. no personal details. "
But they are personal. You are completely removing the 20% I pay in NI tax from the equation. Assume for the purposes of this thread that the cost of the NI tax and my old US health care package were on par (which they are, roughly, though what I pay he is a bit more). Then add the health surcharge on work visas to that.
Again, I don't take issue with the 20% NI tax. It is completely fair and right. I do take issue with the anti-immigrant sentiment inherent in the visa surcharge, even if it is only a few hundred quid (which you can easily look up yourself) extra. It isn't about the cost - it is about the message. Which falls very neatly in line with one of your original posts - if you immigrants don't like it, go back home! Well, thank you. I have gotten the message loud and clear.
Perhaps at this point we can agree to disagree. If your country doesn't want me here paying my taxes and contributing in the form of the job my husband came here for, they can choose to not renew my visa. Simple. |
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Of you fixate on this, you're missing an awful lot of other stuff that could be given your attention.
And I don't think that people should be subjected to increased levels of surveillance or loss of liberty. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It could lead to a crime free country ..
How exactly?
Would you being on a database stop everyone from driving above the speed limit??
Yes I'll admit it's a sarky example but technically it is correct... it would reduce personal crime .. Assaults .burglaries.. Rapes .. And make forensic identified individuals easier to tra ck down. Not electronic fraud .. .. Back to the speeding.. If you're already known and have nine points or so the threat of getting more is a deterrent from getting disqualified by speeding "
Is that like having massive amounts of CCTV was supposed to reduce crime? which it hasn't, it hasn't even been that good when it comes to evidential purposes as it must meetcertain criteria which most doesn't. As for the example of speeding any detection method only knows the vehicles registered keeper - not the actual driver, so no it wouldn't stop speeding either. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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""They should pay into the system for a set amount of time first.. In the interim they should have their own health insurance.
Reduce the amount you are taxed depending on how healthy you are and how often you are likely to use the health service" "
First part of your post is what tends to happen if you're working in most european countries anyway!...
second part: ... and if your reasonably healthy and pay a lower contribution and then have a massive heart attack you should receive reduced care...
*What a bloody ridiculous thing to say! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If I post on a sex forum about benefits entitlement, can I claim overtime from work? "
no but if you fill in form xqztert235672345 which is only available from that guy who works every other month on a random day for 30 seconds between one of the minutes, then you can have the Benefit.
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""They should pay into the system for a set amount of time first.. In the interim they should have their own health insurance.
Reduce the amount you are taxed depending on how healthy you are and how often you are likely to use the health service"
First part of your post is what tends to happen if you're working in most european countries anyway!...
second part: ... and if your reasonably healthy and pay a lower contribution and then have a massive heart attack you should receive reduced care...
*What a bloody ridiculous thing to say! "
The economics of it would work quite well I think. |
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"Why so much attention on benefit fraud, it's peanuts compared to tax evasion and politicians and lords spending."
Because the propaganda put out about benefits actually works. Divide and conquer, par excellence, using smoke and mirrors - whilst the important stuff goes unnoticed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why so much attention on benefit fraud, it's peanuts compared to tax evasion and politicians and lords spending.
Because the propaganda put out about benefits actually works. Divide and conquer, par excellence, using smoke and mirrors - whilst the important stuff goes unnoticed. "
I heard that theres an imminent immigrant zombie virus about to unfold..coming over here to steal our graves FFS! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why so much attention on benefit fraud, it's peanuts compared to tax evasion and politicians and lords spending.
Because the propaganda put out about benefits actually works. Divide and conquer, par excellence, using smoke and mirrors - whilst the important stuff goes unnoticed. "
Yep, that's the one! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And we should chip everybody.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt that that isn;t a deliberately provocativce post - what benefit would that bring?"
Well with well placed scanners you could detect exactly where everyone is at any one time, you could also build traps that only chipped people could go through any health tourists (or any tourists for that matter could be vaporised on the spot)
Anyone that feels sacrificing all freedom to the ultimate and always trusted authorities really needs to read more history. |
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