FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Milk price
Milk price
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Welcome everyone to the hug a farmer thread
unless they have been spreading slurry  | |||
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"Just wondering who would be happy to pay an extra 10p to help us farmers out ?" Without a doubt... many things keep going up in price, why would I object to milk going up too. It's certainly not fair if the price paid doesn't cover the price of production. Cal | |||
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"Asda charge 89 p for four pints of milk how can they make any from this?. "I don't think they do. That is the very definition of a 'loss leader'. What I don't understand is how they can then be criticised for profiteering when making said loss... | |||
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"I've probably been out of the whole farming malarkey for too long, so no longer understand the fiscal complexities of 'eat grass, milk, sell milk', but isn't farmer's two largest costs 1) repayment of capital costs of machinery to take the labour out of farming so they could do other things, and 2) farm rents, paid to the wealthy landowners. So surely any extra profit would simply see an increase in farm rents, and the farmers would be back at square 1. I know we all hear so much about 'cost of production', but isn't this why we need to scrap the subsidies, not increase them? (Sorry, but someone had to be Devil's Advocate, we all know that if shop a sells milk 10p cheaper, the vast majority will buy it) Mr ddc" Scab.... Stone him  | |||
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"Just wondering who would be happy to pay an extra 10p to help us farmers out ?" will you be willing to pay above market price for my services?? I suspect not, market forces, too much milk means too low a price, that's what the rest of us have to deal with, get used to it | |||
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"The main reason the dairy industry has been hit is due to the stop of imports into Russia who were buying large quantitys of British dairy products that's why the price fell on so many contracts " That can't be right, Dairy farmers have been on about this for years. Russia will still be buying milk from someone else, so globally demand should be the same. If you google "milk subsidies uk" you'll find an interesting report by the Adam Smith Institute. (Not sure I'd be allowed to post the link) Part of the problem is farmland has always been exempt from Inheritance Tax so wealthy people see it as a good way of passing on their wealth, pushing up land and rental prices. | |||
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"Does anyone know roughly how much milk you wanna get from a cow these days... I mean how many pints a day?" Each one of our cows produces around 10,000 litres a year so 38 litres a day then down to 22 near their drying off period Cost to produce one litre is around 17-21p As milk prices drop feed prices don't go down they go up | |||
"Does anyone know roughly how much milk you wanna get from a cow these days... I mean how many pints a day? Each one of our cows produces around 10,000 litres a year so 38 litres a day then down to 22 near their drying off period Cost to produce one litre is around 17-21p As milk prices drop feed prices don't go down they go up " . 80 odd pints a day! Do you ever think... We just ask to much from nature | |||
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" As milk prices drop feed prices don't go down they go up " Presumably you don't grow your own silage then? Who controls.the feed prices - is that the supermarkets, or, hang on, is it the cereal farmers?.... | |||
"That's down to the breed of cows we have down the road a guy only get 6,500 litres a years so around 25 litres max " . What do you think the average cow would yield, without the modern practises....ie What did your dad's generation get from a cow | |||
" As milk prices drop feed prices don't go down they go up Presumably you don't grow your own silage then? Who controls.the feed prices - is that the supermarkets, or, hang on, is it the cereal farmers?.... " We grow silage (grass and maize ) but have to buy in minerals ect and top up feeds Cows the say the 50s were yielding 8-9 and half k a year but with different breeding and diet you can get some that will produce 13,000 liters a year | |||
"That's down to the breed of cows we have down the road a guy only get 6,500 litres a years so around 25 litres max . What do you think the average cow would yield, without the modern practises....ie What did your dad's generation get from a cow" Then couple that to health advice telling us to eat less butter and cream, thereby reducing demand. Voilà The true culprit is revealed. Subsidies preventing market forces rebalancing supply and demand. Sorry Farmboy, but if it wasn't good enough for the mining/steelworking/car manufacturing/shipbuilding/textile etc etc industries.... | |||
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"The grain price is controlled but grain buys who buy and self on the stock market " The cereal farmers simply sell to the highest bidder. Do you blame them? How big is your herd? | |||
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"That's down to the breed of cows we have down the road a guy only get 6,500 litres a years so around 25 litres max . What do you think the average cow would yield, without the modern practises....ie What did your dad's generation get from a cow Then couple that to health advice telling us to eat less butter and cream, thereby reducing demand. Voilà The true culprit is revealed. Subsidies preventing market forces rebalancing supply and demand. Sorry Farmboy, but if it wasn't good enough for the mining/steelworking/car manufacturing/shipbuilding/textile etc etc industries...." . Over production! Who'd have thought it | |||
" Sorry Farmboy, but if it wasn't good enough for the mining/steelworking/car manufacturing/shipbuilding/textile etc etc industries...." The unions killed mining off always going on strike same with the cars Britain has never supported manufacturing ( not a good idea) | |||
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"Don't mind paying a little more as long as it goes into farmers pockets, that being said if more milk is being produced than needed some are going too have to change what they do or go udder, its the same for any business." We buy milk from France at more than we pay British producers | |||
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"Don't mind paying a little more as long as it goes into farmers pockets, that being said if more milk is being produced than needed some are going too have to change what they do or go udder, its the same for any business. We buy milk from France at more than we pay British producers " cant say I know anything about that, if its true someone should change it, personally i try to buy British where I can, just hope that's nit a ruse like it us with wine. Nit that I can remember which way it works.  | |||
"Weren't there eu milk lakes and butter mountains. I can remember my grandparents talking about the free butter when u showed your pension book at the church hall. Early 80s?" I vaguely remember them being mentioned in the news then yeah, not sure who got free stuff. Think my mum used to say that's why opinion kept changing on what food was good for you, so that we'd use up whatever there was too much of. | |||
"What do you think the average cow would yield, without the modern practises....ie What did your dad's generation get from a cow" "Forty years ago, the average dairy cow was producing less than 4,000 litres a year. Today, in optimum indoor conditions, one cow can produce more than 11,000 litres." The real worry is that in seeking increased profits, farmers are increasingly moving towards intensive systems where the cows never go outside, and spend their whole life in a pen. We have pretty much got rid of battery hens, but cows are going the other way. Plus intensive farming, and the close priximity it entails, always leads to increased health problems (though we can always blame the badgers?) OP: you never answered the size of your herd, nor whether you are a tenant farmer? | |||
"Scandalous the way farmers are treat in this country.fuck tesco/asda/sainsbury etc.....support your local produce....good luck it's an uphill battle,but didn't the yanks win hamberger hill "Isn't this the real point. The price at the end is the symptom of the disease which is the way an oligopoly of supermarkets abuse their power over smaller farms. Since all farms are smaller than supermarkets, I mean that the supermarkets just abuse everyone. Is this not what we have the competiton and markets authority for? Don't tell me it's another regulator that does fuck all? | |||
"Scandalous the way farmers are treat in this country.fuck tesco/asda/sainsbury etc.....support your local produce....good luck it's an uphill battle,but didn't the yanks win hamberger hill
Isn't this the real point. The price at the end is the symptom of the disease which is the way an oligopoly of supermarkets abuse their power over smaller farms. Since all farms are smaller than supermarkets, I mean that the supermarkets just abuse everyone.
Is this not what we have the competiton and markets authority for? Don't tell me it's another regulator that does fuck all? "They have been subject to a competition inquiry...and was found guilty..many of the farmers problems are derived from being weak negotiators | |||
"Scandalous the way farmers are treat in this country.fuck tesco/asda/sainsbury etc.....support your local produce....good luck it's an uphill battle,but didn't the yanks win hamberger hill
Isn't this the real point. The price at the end is the symptom of the disease which is the way an oligopoly of supermarkets abuse their power over smaller farms. Since all farms are smaller than supermarkets, I mean that the supermarkets just abuse everyone.
Is this not what we have the competiton and markets authority for? Don't tell me it's another regulator that does fuck all?
They have been subject to a competition inquiry...and was found guilty..many of the farmers problems are derived from being weak negotiators "This applies too any company when it comes too dealing with supermarkets, they have way too much influence and money. | |||
"Scandalous the way farmers are treat in this country.fuck tesco/asda/sainsbury etc.....support your local produce....good luck it's an uphill battle,but didn't the yanks win hamberger hill
Isn't this the real point. The price at the end is the symptom of the disease which is the way an oligopoly of supermarkets abuse their power over smaller farms. Since all farms are smaller than supermarkets, I mean that the supermarkets just abuse everyone.
Is this not what we have the competiton and markets authority for? Don't tell me it's another regulator that does fuck all?
They have been subject to a competition inquiry...and was found guilty..many of the farmers problems are derived from being weak negotiators "Just Googled it, pathetic fine for a very serious crime. Collusion = corruption. BAE systems got a £288m fine for corruption and Tesco get £6.5m!!! Tesco 2013 profit = £3.3bn, BAE systems 2014 profit = £1.3bn. The way to deal with this kind of bullshit is to fine the fuckers in a way that makes their shareholders want them to not do it. If shareholders don't get their dividend for the year then you can bet tesco will think twice. £6.5 is a pathetic figure. | |||
"Scandalous the way farmers are treat in this country.fuck tesco/asda/sainsbury etc.....support your local produce....good luck it's an uphill battle,but didn't the yanks win hamberger hill
Isn't this the real point. The price at the end is the symptom of the disease which is the way an oligopoly of supermarkets abuse their power over smaller farms. Since all farms are smaller than supermarkets, I mean that the supermarkets just abuse everyone.
Is this not what we have the competiton and markets authority for? Don't tell me it's another regulator that does fuck all?
They have been subject to a competition inquiry...and was found guilty..many of the farmers problems are derived from being weak negotiators
This applies too any company when it comes too dealing with supermarkets, they have way too much influence and money."Only if the company has weak negotiators | |||
" Only if the company has weak negotiators " Not necessarily. You could have top-notch negotiators, but if it's a buyer's market because of over-production... | |||
"Scandalous the way farmers are treat in this country.fuck tesco/asda/sainsbury etc.....support your local produce....good luck it's an uphill battle,but didn't the yanks win hamberger hill
Isn't this the real point. The price at the end is the symptom of the disease which is the way an oligopoly of supermarkets abuse their power over smaller farms. Since all farms are smaller than supermarkets, I mean that the supermarkets just abuse everyone.
Is this not what we have the competiton and markets authority for? Don't tell me it's another regulator that does fuck all?
They have been subject to a competition inquiry...and was found guilty..many of the farmers problems are derived from being weak negotiators
Just Googled it, pathetic fine for a very serious crime. Collusion = corruption. BAE systems got a £288m fine for corruption and Tesco get £6.5m!!! Tesco 2013 profit = £3.3bn, BAE systems 2014 profit = £1.3bn.
The way to deal with this kind of bullshit is to fine the fuckers in a way that makes their shareholders want them to not do it. If shareholders don't get their dividend for the year then you can bet tesco will think twice. £6.5 is a pathetic figure. "I agree it is...but i work for a food manufacturer...its still down to wear negotiators...and being bullied by the buyer...and to be greed from the farmers at the outset | |||
"Scandalous the way farmers are treat in this country.fuck tesco/asda/sainsbury etc.....support your local produce....good luck it's an uphill battle,but didn't the yanks win hamberger hill
Isn't this the real point. The price at the end is the symptom of the disease which is the way an oligopoly of supermarkets abuse their power over smaller farms. Since all farms are smaller than supermarkets, I mean that the supermarkets just abuse everyone.
Is this not what we have the competiton and markets authority for? Don't tell me it's another regulator that does fuck all?
They have been subject to a competition inquiry...and was found guilty..many of the farmers problems are derived from being weak negotiators
Just Googled it, pathetic fine for a very serious crime. Collusion = corruption. BAE systems got a £288m fine for corruption and Tesco get £6.5m!!! Tesco 2013 profit = £3.3bn, BAE systems 2014 profit = £1.3bn.
The way to deal with this kind of bullshit is to fine the fuckers in a way that makes their shareholders want them to not do it. If shareholders don't get their dividend for the year then you can bet tesco will think twice. £6.5 is a pathetic figure.
I agree it is...but i work for a food manufacturer...its still down to wear negotiators...and being bullied by the buyer...and to be greed from the farmers at the outset "weak not wear lol | |||
"Asda charge 89 p for four pints of milk how can they make any from this?. "They don't have to. They make plenty of money from other products. Milk is a staple they sell like bread. Both cheap but we don't only go in Asda for bread and milk. | |||
"Scandalous the way farmers are treat in this country.fuck tesco/asda/sainsbury etc.....support your local produce....good luck it's an uphill battle,but didn't the yanks win hamberger hill
Isn't this the real point. The price at the end is the symptom of the disease which is the way an oligopoly of supermarkets abuse their power over smaller farms. Since all farms are smaller than supermarkets, I mean that the supermarkets just abuse everyone.
Is this not what we have the competiton and markets authority for? Don't tell me it's another regulator that does fuck all?
They have been subject to a competition inquiry...and was found guilty..many of the farmers problems are derived from being weak negotiators
This applies too any company when it comes too dealing with supermarkets, they have way too much influence and money.
Only if the company has weak negotiators "it's not about weak negotiators, when you have a company in the ftse 100 who have the price they sell their products dictated too them by supermarkets there is clearly something wrong. They have too much power and can determine if a company thrives or withers, small businesses don't stand a chance. | |||
"Scandalous the way farmers are treat in this country.fuck tesco/asda/sainsbury etc.....support your local produce....good luck it's an uphill battle,but didn't the yanks win hamberger hill
Isn't this the real point. The price at the end is the symptom of the disease which is the way an oligopoly of supermarkets abuse their power over smaller farms. Since all farms are smaller than supermarkets, I mean that the supermarkets just abuse everyone.
Is this not what we have the competiton and markets authority for? Don't tell me it's another regulator that does fuck all?
They have been subject to a competition inquiry...and was found guilty..many of the farmers problems are derived from being weak negotiators
This applies too any company when it comes too dealing with supermarkets, they have way too much influence and money.
Only if the company has weak negotiators it's not about weak negotiators, when you have a company in the ftse 100 who have the price they sell their products dictated too them by supermarkets there is clearly something wrong. They have too much power and can determine if a company thrives or withers, small businesses don't stand a chance."Rubbish to be honest..its weakness..i know this...i've dealt with Asda and Tesco to a lesser extent...an example one of the big four supermarkets demanded £500.000 just to list our products...they have sales of about £15 million....we took it back to our MD of the company...he told us to tell them basically to get F---ked..and delist us...guess what happened...they backed down...reason was we wasnt scared to be bullied by them | |||
"Scandalous the way farmers are treat in this country.fuck tesco/asda/sainsbury etc.....support your local produce....good luck it's an uphill battle,but didn't the yanks win hamberger hill
Isn't this the real point. The price at the end is the symptom of the disease which is the way an oligopoly of supermarkets abuse their power over smaller farms. Since all farms are smaller than supermarkets, I mean that the supermarkets just abuse everyone.
Is this not what we have the competiton and markets authority for? Don't tell me it's another regulator that does fuck all?
They have been subject to a competition inquiry...and was found guilty..many of the farmers problems are derived from being weak negotiators
This applies too any company when it comes too dealing with supermarkets, they have way too much influence and money.
Only if the company has weak negotiators it's not about weak negotiators, when you have a company in the ftse 100 who have the price they sell their products dictated too them by supermarkets there is clearly something wrong. They have too much power and can determine if a company thrives or withers, small businesses don't stand a chance.
Rubbish to be honest..its weakness..i know this...i've dealt with Asda and Tesco to a lesser extent...an example one of the big four supermarkets demanded £500.000 just to list our products...they have sales of about £15 million....we took it back to our MD of the company...he told us to tell them basically to get F---ked..and delist us...guess what happened...they backed down...reason was we wasnt scared to be bullied by them "if you have a lot of competitors and they delist your product you stand to lose a lot and not just from them but from the ongoing publicity, I'm not talking about 10's of millions but rather hundreds. | |||
"Scandalous the way farmers are treat in this country.fuck tesco/asda/sainsbury etc.....support your local produce....good luck it's an uphill battle,but didn't the yanks win hamberger hill
Isn't this the real point. The price at the end is the symptom of the disease which is the way an oligopoly of supermarkets abuse their power over smaller farms. Since all farms are smaller than supermarkets, I mean that the supermarkets just abuse everyone.
Is this not what we have the competiton and markets authority for? Don't tell me it's another regulator that does fuck all?
They have been subject to a competition inquiry...and was found guilty..many of the farmers problems are derived from being weak negotiators
This applies too any company when it comes too dealing with supermarkets, they have way too much influence and money.
Only if the company has weak negotiators it's not about weak negotiators, when you have a company in the ftse 100 who have the price they sell their products dictated too them by supermarkets there is clearly something wrong. They have too much power and can determine if a company thrives or withers, small businesses don't stand a chance.
Rubbish to be honest..its weakness..i know this...i've dealt with Asda and Tesco to a lesser extent...an example one of the big four supermarkets demanded £500.000 just to list our products...they have sales of about £15 million....we took it back to our MD of the company...he told us to tell them basically to get F---ked..and delist us...guess what happened...they backed down...reason was we wasnt scared to be bullied by them "Always love anecdotal examples rather than facts. How good the deal you can negotiate depends on both skill and negotiation position. But it's much more about position than skill. Don't argue that point, just go argue with Michael Porter and his five forces if you disagree. Furthermore, courts have proved it's a rigged market so it doesn't matter how good you think you are at negotiation, if people are illegally colluding against you then you are screwed. To call farmers greedy is quite a stretch, the average farmer works much longer hours than the average supermarket supply chain manager. | |||
"Scandalous the way farmers are treat in this country.fuck tesco/asda/sainsbury etc.....support your local produce....good luck it's an uphill battle,but didn't the yanks win hamberger hill
Isn't this the real point. The price at the end is the symptom of the disease which is the way an oligopoly of supermarkets abuse their power over smaller farms. Since all farms are smaller than supermarkets, I mean that the supermarkets just abuse everyone.
Is this not what we have the competiton and markets authority for? Don't tell me it's another regulator that does fuck all?
They have been subject to a competition inquiry...and was found guilty..many of the farmers problems are derived from being weak negotiators
This applies too any company when it comes too dealing with supermarkets, they have way too much influence and money.
Only if the company has weak negotiators it's not about weak negotiators, when you have a company in the ftse 100 who have the price they sell their products dictated too them by supermarkets there is clearly something wrong. They have too much power and can determine if a company thrives or withers, small businesses don't stand a chance.
Rubbish to be honest..its weakness..i know this...i've dealt with Asda and Tesco to a lesser extent...an example one of the big four supermarkets demanded £500.000 just to list our products...they have sales of about £15 million....we took it back to our MD of the company...he told us to tell them basically to get F---ked..and delist us...guess what happened...they backed down...reason was we wasnt scared to be bullied by them
Always love anecdotal examples rather than facts. How good the deal you can negotiate depends on both skill and negotiation position. But it's much more about position than skill. Don't argue that point, just go argue with Michael Porter and his five forces if you disagree.
Furthermore, courts have proved it's a rigged market so it doesn't matter how good you think you are at negotiation, if people are illegally colluding against you then you are screwed.
To call farmers greedy is quite a stretch, the average farmer works much longer hours than the average supermarket supply chain manager."Agreed..and the farmers are in a great position...but dont they sell the milk on to a third party..who then sells it on to the supermarkets...and some of the milk manufacturers were also implicated in the inquiry not just the supermarkets | |||
"Just wondering who would be happy to pay an extra 10p to help us farmers out ?" Most certainly...be willing to pay much more than a lousy 2 bob... | |||
"What do you think the average cow would yield, without the modern practises....ie What did your dad's generation get from a cow "Forty years ago, the average dairy cow was producing less than 4,000 litres a year. Today, in optimum indoor conditions, one cow can produce more than 11,000 litres." The real worry is that in seeking increased profits, farmers are increasingly moving towards intensive systems where the cows never go outside, and spend their whole life in a pen. We have pretty much got rid of battery hens, but cows are going the other way. Plus intensive farming, and the close priximity it entails, always leads to increased health problems (though we can always blame the badgers?) OP: you never answered the size of your herd, nor whether you are a tenant farmer?" The New Zealand breed of cows ( black and white ones ) ( holstines) have the ability to produce 10,000 liters no problem. Ours cows are out in the summer but in , in the winter months due to weather. But even then if it's hot the cows will stay in the barn even though they have the option to go out side. We have built sheds that are an environment for them that is perfect they are on deep sand beds Which are cleaned every day and topped up with more sand on a Friday. Our heard is 340 plus calves but this year we plan on increasing to 370 to try and get economies of scale. Regarding tb or as you put it they are proven to carry it and with it being spread even more. ( sussex wild life trust are being convicted of moving tb infected badger round the country) | |||
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"So at 10p extra a pint, 350 cows, producing 11,000 litres a year, you're asking for a miserly extra £673,750? (Is that right?) Not even Scargill asked for that much!
"Lets be open and honest about industry too. I worked for a major manufacturer. All big companies receive EU and uk government subsidies too. Only they call them investment. Every major manufacturer goes to local development agencies for cash when building new sites or installing new plant machinery. Threating job losses if they dont get investment. The company I worked for received three million from the Welsh Assembly for a new automated press. To shape steel. There was a three year tie in to keep the plant open. The day the three years was up, the company announced the plant was unprofitable and closed us down . Moving the kit to Russia . So all industries receive subsidies | |||
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"Oh dear Poor farmers, you only focus on one thing which may be detrimental to them however Don't farmers get huge subsid0ies for set aside land, this should offset the loss of profit for milk production, basically money for doing nothing. Also with the demand for increased housing, farmers are selling land for huge amounts of money to developers. The farmers around here don't worry about upsetting my views, they are selling land opposite and around the village without a care for the locals and reaping huge profits, then purchasing brand new 4 x 4's and machinery to make their life even easier ... so no I object to farmers whinging, they still vote tory don't they even after having this done to them if they were that upset by low prices they would of used their vote elsewhere!!!" So anyone who votes Tory is evil and deserves all misfortune that comes their way? That's your point basically. All these farmers going around buying machinery, increasing their productivity - it's outrageous! Why don't they just milk 350 cows a day by hand the lazy bastard's? Shouldn't they be cutting crops with scissors to save money on harvesters too? | |||
"You're right Taff. We buy all our meat from a local butcher/farmer, and you really can tell the difference, so I like the fact that Athena can source her own milk the same way. I'm also very aware that I'm probably sounding a bit heartless, but it bugs me a bit when people get other's hopes up. It's a bit like everyone says "Of course I'll pay an extra 5p in tax to save the NHS", then vote for the other lot. The truth is no, the majority of people just want cheap food, and won't actually pay more. And whilever some farmers choose to chase extra profit by increasing production, others will be forced to the wall. We don't need more milk. Interestingly, because our butcher cuts out the middlemen, his meat is no more expensive than normal supermarket food."
I shop local and try to eat seasonal too | |||
"Oh dear Poor farmers, you only focus on one thing which may be detrimental to them however Don't farmers get huge subsid0ies for set aside land, this should offset the loss of profit for milk production, basically money for doing nothing. Also with the demand for increased housing, farmers are selling land for huge amounts of money to developers. The farmers around here don't worry about upsetting my views, they are selling land opposite and around the village without a care for the locals and reaping huge profits, then purchasing brand new 4 x 4's and machinery to make their life even easier ... so no I object to farmers whinging, they still vote tory don't they even after having this done to them if they were that upset by low prices they would of used their vote elsewhere!!! So anyone who votes Tory is evil and deserves all misfortune that comes their way? That's your point basically. All these farmers going around buying machinery, increasing their productivity - it's outrageous! Why don't they just milk 350 cows a day by hand the lazy bastard's? Shouldn't they be cutting crops with scissors to save money on harvesters too? " In a nutshell l
Youve picked on one single point in my post, obviously your a tory voter and objected to any criticism of your preferred party.
My point was actually regarding the thread title, farmers bleating about low milk prices, ignoring the fact they get European subsidies for set aside land this was my remark regarding getting money for nothing . They also get subsidies for other things also, and my point about their vehicles is you dont see them driving about in clapped out cortinas do you usually top of the range BMW's now call me scepticle but that doesnt appear to be people who are struggling to make ends meet due to low milk prices and now with demand for housing these poor landowners are reaping millions of pounds instead of reaping fields , but go on defend your beloved tory party, youll be stating how bad the gentry are next due to fox hunting being banned and will start a petition to have it legalised i expect... Well tally ho chase that fox tory !! | |||
"Oh dear Poor farmers, you only focus on one thing which may be detrimental to them however Don't farmers get huge subsid0ies for set aside land, this should offset the loss of profit for milk production, basically money for doing nothing. Also with the demand for increased housing, farmers are selling land for huge amounts of money to developers. The farmers around here don't worry about upsetting my views, they are selling land opposite and around the village without a care for the locals and reaping huge profits, then purchasing brand new 4 x 4's and machinery to make their life even easier ... so no I object to farmers whinging, they still vote tory don't they even after having this done to them if they were that upset by low prices they would of used their vote elsewhere!!! So anyone who votes Tory is evil and deserves all misfortune that comes their way? That's your point basically. All these farmers going around buying machinery, increasing their productivity - it's outrageous! Why don't they just milk 350 cows a day by hand the lazy bastard's? Shouldn't they be cutting crops with scissors to save money on harvesters too? In a nutshell l
Youve picked on one single point in my post, obviously your a tory voter and objected to any criticism of your preferred party.
My point was actually regarding the thread title, farmers bleating about low milk prices, ignoring the fact they get European subsidies for set aside land this was my remark regarding getting money for nothing . They also get subsidies for other things also, and my point about their vehicles is you dont see them driving about in clapped out cortinas do you usually top of the range BMW's now call me scepticle but that doesnt appear to be people who are struggling to make ends meet due to low milk prices and now with demand for housing these poor landowners are reaping millions of pounds instead of reaping fields , but go on defend your beloved tory party, youll be stating how bad the gentry are next due to fox hunting being banned and will start a petition to have it legalised i expect... Well tally ho chase that fox tory !!"So because I resent people being ostracised for voting for one of the major political parties it obviously means I vote for them? Great logic and wrong. Do not pass go and do not collect £200. I'll make some proper criticisms of the Tory party to show you the difference between being objective and trolling: - there was absolutely no need to extend the period new workers don't get to claim unfair dismissal from 1 years to 2. - we were promised the defecit would be eliminated and they've only halved it. #fail - the reason the EU referendum is when it is, is to help kill UKIP because Cameron is playing politics with it rather than putting the interests of the nation first - why the fudge are well selling bank shares below the price to earnings ratio they could reasonably be expected to fetch before the end of parliament? See how that works? Now I don't know what rose tinted glasses you view farms through but it takes incredible hours and work ethic to keep a farm going. So even if farmers were living large off subsidies, which they ain't, it would still be fuck all as an hourly rate. They sell perishable goods to an oligopoly which is the real reason they struggle to get proper market prices. Subsidies only partially compensate for that. | |||
"Yep, more than happy to pay more! " | |||
S'fucking disgusting. | |||
"Yep id pay more. People are so short sighted to not realise how damaging it is to force farmers out...once they are gone they are gone. "It's all going Tollpuddle again Mavis ! | |||
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"Oh dear Poor farmers, you only focus on one thing which may be detrimental to them however Don't farmers get huge subsid0ies for set aside land, this should offset the loss of profit for milk production, basically money for doing nothing. Also with the demand for increased housing, farmers are selling land for huge amounts of money to developers. The farmers around here don't worry about upsetting my views, they are selling land opposite and around the village without a care for the locals and reaping huge profits, then purchasing brand new 4 x 4's and machinery to make their life even easier ... so no I object to farmers whinging, they still vote tory don't they even after having this done to them if they were that upset by low prices they would of used their vote elsewhere!!! So anyone who votes Tory is evil and deserves all misfortune that comes their way? That's your point basically. All these farmers going around buying machinery, increasing their productivity - it's outrageous! Why don't they just milk 350 cows a day by hand the lazy bastard's? Shouldn't they be cutting crops with scissors to save money on harvesters too? In a nutshell l
Youve picked on one single point in my post, obviously your a tory voter and objected to any criticism of your preferred party.
My point was actually regarding the thread title, farmers bleating about low milk prices, ignoring the fact they get European subsidies for set aside land this was my remark regarding getting money for nothing . They also get subsidies for other things also, and my point about their vehicles is you dont see them driving about in clapped out cortinas do you usually top of the range BMW's now call me scepticle but that doesnt appear to be people who are struggling to make ends meet due to low milk prices and now with demand for housing these poor landowners are reaping millions of pounds instead of reaping fields , but go on defend your beloved tory party, youll be stating how bad the gentry are next due to fox hunting being banned and will start a petition to have it legalised i expect... Well tally ho chase that fox tory !!
So because I resent people being ostracised for voting for one of the major political parties it obviously means I vote for them?
Great logic and wrong. Do not pass go and do not collect £200. I'll make some proper criticisms of the Tory party to show you the difference between being objective and trolling:
- there was absolutely no need to extend the period new workers don't get to claim unfair dismissal from 1 years to 2.
- we were promised the defecit would be eliminated and they've only halved it. #fail
- the reason the EU referendum is when it is, is to help kill UKIP because Cameron is playing politics with it rather than putting the interests of the nation first
- why the fudge are well selling bank shares below the price to earnings ratio they could reasonably be expected to fetch before the end of parliament?
See how that works?
Now I don't know what rose tinted glasses you view farms through but it takes incredible hours and work ethic to keep a farm going. So even if farmers were living large off subsidies, which they ain't, it would still be fuck all as an hourly rate. They sell perishable goods to an oligopoly which is the real reason they struggle to get proper market prices. Subsidies only partially compensate for that."If farming was that bad for little reward they wouldnt do it would they and to state they are on a poor hourly rate you don't see many people on the minimum wage driving BMW x5's with their wives driving x3's and their unworking kids driving brand new cars paid for by daddies farming subsidies do we. Explain to a hardworking single parent that she has to pay more for her milk to ensure the farmers maintain their standard of living. I hate all political parties they are all corrupt, i just hate the tories more than the others including UKIP. If they could get away with it they would scrap the minimum wage, they believe in eliteism where the masses work to imrove the profits of the few. Labour are little better, we were all happy to get away from the union strong days where they would strike for any reason. But back to milk, it,s simple if farmers make little profit from producing and selling it, diversify and move to producing something which does make a profit. And to be honest the farmers protest was laughable you couldnt script it, who dreamed up that baby? I know im going to protest, im going to raid supermarkets, clear the shelves go to the checkouts and pay 20p a litre more than the supermarket paid me and then go out and give it away. If i was the supermarket manager id be rubbing my hands, id be on to the dairy asking for another 100,000 litres its flying off the shelves | |||
" But back to milk, it,s simple if farmers make little profit from producing and selling it, diversify and move to producing something which does make a profit. " Firstly your sample of farmers and their BMW's up the ying yang simply isn't representative. My ex was an accountant and most of her clients were farmers. They were not milking it. You can buy most of their accounts on companies house for £1 and verify that fact. Second, capital intensive industries can't just up and change overnight the way a hairdresser can retrain as a nail technician. Why do you think car manufacturers persist with an industry that barely recovers the cost of its capital? There are huge sunk costs, a lot of accumulated knowledge that isn't very transferable and frankly most farmers are well suited to farming. It takes balls to get up at dark o clock come rain or shine. I wouldn't do it, I like my air conditioned office too much. I know farmers who are literally speaking, illiterate. They are in their 50's and way past the point they are going to learn to read and write. I think it's great they can be proper participants in our economic system with a decent job rather indefinately being placed on the unemployment list. They wouldn't even get jobs stacking shelves. Their problems are the industry structure, not a lack of demand for the product or productivity with the supplier. If a market doesn't work properly then that's what regulators are for. | |||
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"I think a major problem we have is that most people have lost the connection they used to have from the food they eat and milk they drink. We have become accustomed to cheap food prices due to imports and supermarket price wars. Our farmers work long hours in every possible weather conditions. Yes we have EU subsidies, and they are essential.British Farmers work to the highest standards and strictest guidelines in the world. Most farmers work their farm by day and in the evening they are administrators, heaps of paper work . How many of us would work long hours 365 days a year. We need our farmers, they feed us . People need to realise what an amazing product milk is . Its a fantastic supplier of essential vitamins and minerals that support us all. We buy pointless energy drinks , we don't mind paying high prices for them, yet the best energy drink milk we quibble over prices. So an extra 10p per litre is a bargain. " | |||
"Just wondering who would be happy to pay an extra 10p to help us farmers out ?" Let's be honest they could put it up an extra 50p and people would still buy it, milk is just one of those products people will buy | |||
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"Just wondering who would be happy to pay an extra 10p to help us farmers out ? Let's be honest they could put it up an extra 50p and people would still buy it, milk is just one of those products fat people will buy" true | |||
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"Think of the first man to ever try milk??? How did that come about??? Did he just see a cow and start sucking on some udders??? If so what else was this man willing to do! " I'd like to think he saw a calf doing it and figured there was something good at the end. But nice to see you have an active imagination  | |||
"Think of the first man to ever try milk??? How did that come about??? Did he just see a cow and start sucking on some udders??? If so what else was this man willing to do! I'd like to think he saw a calf doing it and figured there was something good at the end. But nice to see you have an active imagination "Hahaha that makes a lot of sense! | |||
"Think of the first man to ever try milk??? How did that come about??? Did he just see a cow and start sucking on some udders??? If so what else was this man willing to do! I'd like to think he saw a calf doing it and figured there was something good at the end. But nice to see you have an active imagination
Hahaha that makes a lot of sense! "Now how the heck did the first man realise you could ride horses??? | |||
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"There was probably a shortage of food, people become more resourceful when there's shortages. They saw that cows had something they could eat. That's why people eat flies and that, it's their best source of food but we wouldn't touch them coz we have other stuff." Flies??? Who eats flies? Lol They eat insects like crickets ect sod eating a big fat blue bottle for lunch! | |||
"Just wondering who would be happy to pay an extra 10p to help us farmers out ?" Prefer to help the cows out and buy soya milk ... | |||
"Think of the first man to ever try milk??? How did that come about??? Did he just see a cow and start sucking on some udders??? If so what else was this man willing to do! I'd like to think he saw a calf doing it and figured there was something good at the end. But nice to see you have an active imagination
Hahaha that makes a lot of sense!
Now how the heck did the first man realise you could ride horses??? "Surely a guy see a horse run fast and thought hang on a moment why don't I sit on that horse and get from A to B? | |||
"Just wondering who would be happy to pay an extra 10p to help us farmers out ? Prefer to help the cows out and buy soya milk ..." Hemp milks better, soya full of gmos | |||
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"yet again i read a lot of crap about what misinformed folk think about us folk who work on the land . set aside has gone ,,,, in someways it did us the farmers some good , at a time when prices were in the doldrums it took 15% of crops out of the grain stores and pushed prices up a bit ,,,, but the money recieved for set asiding the land didnt cover the costs so let me assure you it was not money for nothing then someone mentioned about farmers driving around in bmw 5 series and there wifes driving around in 3 series ,,,, yeah right , not around here they dont , usually a beat up old estate car or old discovery which is heading towards 200 k miles ,,,, my old disco has 180 k on the clock , is as rough as nails but does the job i bought it for [2nd hand i might add , cant afford a new car] I for one would love to be able to farm with out subsidies ,,,, but they will unfortunately be always there ,,,, because Brussels needs a carrot to dangle in front of us to make us toe the line " So all farmers situations are based on where you live are they? You need to move here then as there are 4 farms within close proximity to where we live and all have lovely big 4 x4's, maybe due to the land they are selling for building as opposed to farming, or maybe they are working the system of obtaining subsidies far more effectively than you. I can only base my judgement on what I see happening locally and I can tell you the farmers around here are doing well thank you. | |||
"Perhaps. But we already buy 12+ pints a week as well as paying £45 a year for our daughters school milk so I already feel we're spending a lot on it already! " Two in my family and we have 12 pints a week, delivered to the door by Dairy Crest. Hopefully, Dairy Crest pay farmers the going rate and there`s a job for our milkman as well! | |||
" That's why people eat flies and that, it's their best source of food but we wouldn't touch them coz we have other stuff. Flies??? Who eats flies? " Mrs ddc is always after my flies. (Well, in my dreams...) The real question is what sort of lazy-arsed person thinks "I can't be bothered to grow my own food, nor raise my own animals, what can I hunt that doesn't run too fast? Ooh, snails!"? Ah, yes: Bonjour les Françaises!
Mr ddc | |||
"yet again i read a lot of crap about what misinformed folk think about us folk who work on the land . set aside has gone ,,,, in someways it did us the farmers some good , at a time when prices were in the doldrums it took 15% of crops out of the grain stores and pushed prices up a bit ,,,, but the money recieved for set asiding the land didnt cover the costs so let me assure you it was not money for nothing then someone mentioned about farmers driving around in bmw 5 series and there wifes driving around in 3 series ,,,, yeah right , not around here they dont , usually a beat up old estate car or old discovery which is heading towards 200 k miles ,,,, my old disco has 180 k on the clock , is as rough as nails but does the job i bought it for [2nd hand i might add , cant afford a new car] I for one would love to be able to farm with out subsidies ,,,, but they will unfortunately be always there ,,,, because Brussels needs a carrot to dangle in front of us to make us toe the line So all farmers situations are based on where you live are they? You need to move here then as there are 4 farms within close proximity to where we live and all have lovely big 4 x4's, maybe due to the land they are selling for building as opposed to farming, or maybe they are working the system of obtaining subsidies far more effectively than you. I can only base my judgement on what I see happening locally and I can tell you the farmers around here are doing well thank you." Yer we could make a lot of money selling the land for houses but surely the countryside means more to people than a quick buck , once their is a house their will never be a field again | |||
"Oh dear Poor farmers, you only focus on one thing which may be detrimental to them however Don't farmers get huge subsid0ies for set aside land, this should offset the loss of profit for milk production, basically money for doing nothing. Also with the demand for increased housing, farmers are selling land for huge amounts of money to developers. The farmers around here don't worry about upsetting my views, they are selling land opposite and around the village without a care for the locals and reaping huge profits, then purchasing brand new 4 x 4's and machinery to make their life even easier ... so no I object to farmers whinging, they still vote tory don't they even after having this done to them if they were that upset by low prices they would of used their vote elsewhere!!!" Agreed. I've never seen a poor farmer, all those sparkly new tractors and Land Rovers and nice big farmhouses and subsidies. I (and probably the rest of the population) wouldn't pay any more than I already do. Greedy fat cats. | |||
"Don't mind paying a little more as long as it goes into farmers pockets, that being said if more milk is being produced than needed some are going too have to change what they do or go udder, its the same for any business." Go 'udder' ?? OMFG I just nearly choked on my cereal !! Please say this was intentional | |||
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"Is the milk quota still in place ? If a minimum purchase price was introduced along with right quota controls then would that help farmers to plan production / budgets and not over produce ? " Their was a quoter which was taken away about 3 years ago ( eu idea ) and people then said that will fuck the system up and they were right | |||
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"Why can't the supermarkets lose ten pence in profit and help you ? " or meet in the middle - be good for the supermarket in question to make the first move though - | |||
"Don't mind paying a little more as long as it goes into farmers pockets, that being said if more milk is being produced than needed some are going too have to change what they do or go udder, its the same for any business. Go 'udder' ?? OMFG I just nearly choked on my cereal !! Please say this was intentional " the topic was crying out for it, would have been a crime not to slip it in somewhere and it amused me slightly. | |||
] 55 i know are tenant farmers , 32 are family farms of under 300 acres , 4 are what i call wealthy farmers ,,, those who have sold land for building and dont need to worry about working again and the rest are family farm who also rent land as well , and that covers a pretty big part of the county i live and work in .
One of the reasons that subsidies for farming was introduced was that Brussels felt it was important to have 'strategic reserves',,, this country was the only country to call them mountains and lakes ,,,,, perhaps if we ever went hungry then maybe we might call them strategic reserves . At the moment the world is awash with grain and milk and so all commodity prices are on the floor ,,, below the cost of production but that is this year ,,,,, next year may be very different ,,,,, I for one love my job , i know the returns are bad at the moment ,but we pull the belt in , we have good years and bad ones , that new 4x4 BMW will just have to wait another year or 10 | |||
"Aww have a look at the videos on the site ty tanglwyst dairy, it's just down the road from my house! It's a brilliant farm and they have open days all the time so you can go and watch the cows being milked and it is the nicest milk around!" Let's go visit Seawitch XxX | |||
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