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Boring Hypothetical.
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Thinkers welcome.
Tosspots welcome but your advice may be overlooked or worse.
Person 1 and person 2 have been friends for five or six years having known each other for about seven.
Person 1 and 2 start a business with each putting in the same amount of money. The business does not take off.
Both often think about business and what would work and what went wrong, often suggesting ideas to each other and talking them through.
They remain good friends and see each other at least 2 or 3 times a week for different lengths of time and activities.
Then, a year after the first business failed, person 1 mails person 2 and says.... I have a great idea. Think this will work. Can we talk about it when you are back?
Person 2 replies. Yes. Don't take that as I will go into business though but I will listen to the idea. Looking forward to seeing you when I get back.
Person 1 Doesn't respond to three mails, very short mails saying person 2 has arrived home.
12 hours later person 1 texts. Sorry I tried to involve you in business. You are right not to enter into business because that is what every entrepeneur does isn't it? Just give up after the first hurdle. I will go into business on my own if that's okay with you. xx
Person 2 says... Call me. I want to say what I have to say by voice. Not via a cowardly text.
Person 1 does not call.
12 or so hours go by. Person 1 mails and says. I did not call cos I knew what you were going to say.
In brief. Person 2 says Person 1 shat on their freindship and business partnership by refusing to listen to what person 2 had to say and has just cut them out of plans.
Person 1 says person 2 is just a tit for tat merchant and is only mad because person 1 never phoned them.
Over to anyone who is still awake. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Perhaps both 1 and 2 should take time as individuals to reflect on whether there is value in continuing the pattern of failure that manifested from their previous joint venture and subsequent falling-out which may or may not have subliminal origins attributed to those events....
I suspect a period of distancing will not further harm the situation....  |
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Person 1 should have at least spoken to Person 2 face to face. It's okay to start your own business, I'd like to think our longstanding friendship meant they'd communicate with me. Advice and support are good things from someone you trust, even if they don't want to get involved in round two. |
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"Person 1 should have at least spoken to Person 2 face to face. It's okay to start your own business, I'd like to think our longstanding friendship meant they'd communicate with me. Advice and support are good things from someone you trust, even if they don't want to get involved in round two."
So you lean more to person 2 ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So are you person number 1 ?"
Gwanny,,,,,, if I were a number it would probably be,,,,12407  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Person 2 was willing to listen to person 1's business pitch and only give a yes/no answer once they had all the facts.
Person 1 totally missed that point from whatbimade from it.
perhaps person 1 should take a little time to read his emails properly and out together a proper business plan/pitch before throwing their toys out of the pram. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Failure is a word with a certain amount of shame attached to it in society!
I think most people put more energy in to overcoming the shame of the failure instead of finding solutions to the failure.
If you can get past your own "blame culture", you normally find the solution quicker and easier! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Person 2 was willing to listen to person 1's business pitch and only give a yes/no answer once they had all the facts.
Person 1 totally missed that point from whatbimade from it.
perhaps person 1 should take a little time to read his emails properly and out together a proper business plan/pitch before throwing their toys out of the pram."
Excuse the spelling, my phone is being a twat! |
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"Person 1 should have at least spoken to Person 2 face to face. It's okay to start your own business, I'd like to think our longstanding friendship meant they'd communicate with me. Advice and support are good things from someone you trust, even if they don't want to get involved in round two.
So you lean more to person 2 ?"
I think Person 1 should have at least spoken to Person 2. If that's leaning then yes.  |
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"Person 2 was willing to listen to person 1's business pitch and only give a yes/no answer once they had all the facts.
Person 1 totally missed that point from whatbimade from it.
perhaps person 1 should take a little time to read his emails properly and out together a proper business plan/pitch before throwing their toys out of the pram."
I felt that. From reading it person 1 was sarky in their response and I think has made up the part where person 2 won't go into business due to the failure of the first.
Good thinking Sherlock. |
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"Failure is a word with a certain amount of shame attached to it in society!
I think most people put more energy in to overcoming the shame of the failure instead of finding solutions to the failure.
If you can get past your own "blame culture", you normally find the solution quicker and easier!"
I'm not sure what that means in relation to the hypothetical.
What are the rights and wrongs of each individual? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Failure is a word with a certain amount of shame attached to it in society!
I think most people put more energy in to overcoming the shame of the failure instead of finding solutions to the failure.
If you can get past your own "blame culture", you normally find the solution quicker and easier!
I'm not sure what that means in relation to the hypothetical.
What are the rights and wrongs of each individual? "
.
It means there both right and there both wrong! But ultimately they failed because they couldn't get past seeing it themselves! |
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"Failure is a word with a certain amount of shame attached to it in society!
I think most people put more energy in to overcoming the shame of the failure instead of finding solutions to the failure.
If you can get past your own "blame culture", you normally find the solution quicker and easier!
I'm not sure what that means in relation to the hypothetical.
What are the rights and wrongs of each individual? .
It means there both right and there both wrong! But ultimately they failed because they couldn't get past seeing it themselves!"
Okay. Thanks |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Person 2 was willing to listen to person 1's business pitch and only give a yes/no answer once they had all the facts.
Person 1 totally missed that point from whatbimade from it.
perhaps person 1 should take a little time to read his emails properly and out together a proper business plan/pitch before throwing their toys out of the pram.
I felt that. From reading it person 1 was sarky in their response and I think has made up the part where person 2 won't go into business due to the failure of the first.
Good thinking Sherlock."
Person 2 is being cautious and wants facts before jumping in blind. Person 1 doesn't seem to understand that.
Personally I wouldn't go into business with Person 1. |
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"Person 2 was willing to listen to person 1's business pitch and only give a yes/no answer once they had all the facts.
Person 1 totally missed that point from whatbimade from it.
perhaps person 1 should take a little time to read his emails properly and out together a proper business plan/pitch before throwing their toys out of the pram.
I felt that. From reading it person 1 was sarky in their response and I think has made up the part where person 2 won't go into business due to the failure of the first.
Good thinking Sherlock.
Person 2 is being cautious and wants facts before jumping in blind. Person 1 doesn't seem to understand that.
Personally I wouldn't go into business with Person 1."
I'm nodding like a sage. |
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Person 1 has overthought the initial reply from person 2. That has lead to miscommunication which I think means both need a timeout from each other. No great loss to either. Fortunately in the swinging world this problem never happen  |
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"Person 1 has overthought the initial reply from person 2. That has lead to miscommunication which I think means both need a timeout from each other. No great loss to either. Fortunately in the swinging world this problem never happen "
No great loss ? Why's that ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Failure is a word with a certain amount of shame attached to it in society!
I think most people put more energy in to overcoming the shame of the failure instead of finding solutions to the failure.
If you can get past your own "blame culture", you normally find the solution quicker and easier!
I'm not sure what that means in relation to the hypothetical.
What are the rights and wrongs of each individual? .
It means there both right and there both wrong! But ultimately they failed because they couldn't get past seeing it themselves!
Okay. Thanks"
.
This bit
Person 2 replies. Yes. Don't take that as I will go into business though but I will listen to the idea.
This bit
12 hours later person 1 texts. Sorry I tried to involve you in business. You are right not to enter into business because that is what every entrepeneur does isn't it? Just give up after the first hurdle.
And this bit
Person 2 says... Call me. I want to say what I have to say by voice. Not via a cowardly text
These are in actually bits of shared past history and have nothing to do with the current business plan!
Nobody likes being wrong and most of us! , go to alot of effort to appear that were not!
Like what's the first sentence you hear when something gone wrong!
It was your idea?  |
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If person 1 is upset for something that hasn't actually happened then maybe better to let them fly the proposal solo. Of course I am assuming alot from the first post and if they get to meet face to face it can come good. And maybe the idea is secondrate anyway ? Too much guessing from me |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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When people appear difficult it's worth considering if they are trying to provoke a reaction or whether they are sending a signal......
I tend to find ignoring the situation will eventually result in the person being forced to play their hand without the subterfuge..
It also allows them time for introspective reflection.....
|
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"Failure is a word with a certain amount of shame attached to it in society!
I think most people put more energy in to overcoming the shame of the failure instead of finding solutions to the failure.
If you can get past your own "blame culture", you normally find the solution quicker and easier!
I'm not sure what that means in relation to the hypothetical.
What are the rights and wrongs of each individual? .
It means there both right and there both wrong! But ultimately they failed because they couldn't get past seeing it themselves!
Okay. Thanks.
This bit
Person 2 replies. Yes. Don't take that as I will go into business though but I will listen to the idea.
This bit
12 hours later person 1 texts. Sorry I tried to involve you in business. You are right not to enter into business because that is what every entrepeneur does isn't it? Just give up after the first hurdle.
And this bit
Person 2 says... Call me. I want to say what I have to say by voice. Not via a cowardly text
These are in actually bits of shared past history and have nothing to do with the current business plan!
Nobody likes being wrong and most of us! , go to alot of effort to appear that were not!
Like what's the first sentence you hear when something gone wrong!
It was your idea? "
I agree that the bit said by person 1 relates to the past but the other two parts you mention don't. Good point though Batman..........
No one has blamed the other tho. |
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"If person 1 is upset for something that hasn't actually happened then maybe better to let them fly the proposal solo. Of course I am assuming alot from the first post and if they get to meet face to face it can come good. And maybe the idea is secondrate anyway ? Too much guessing from me "
I can see what you are saying. The first part especially. Person 1 does seem to be upset about something that hasn't actually happened. |
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"When people appear difficult it's worth considering if they are trying to provoke a reaction or whether they are sending a signal......
I tend to find ignoring the situation will eventually result in the person being forced to play their hand without the subterfuge..
It also allows them time for introspective reflection.....
"
So.... Who was being introspective and subversive ? Person 1 or Person 2 ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Both person 1 and person 2 are delusional , as everyone with half a brain knows that friends should never go into business together .
But if forced to say which of the twats I lean more towards , its person 1 as at least they tried to make an impossible situation better .
But then person 2 may have felt the friendship had been strained enough already ....
Oh I dunno , but the moral of the story is don't fuck up a good friendship by going into business with them
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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REFRAMING
Person 1 - I'm excited by my idea
Person 2 - (thinks: yeah, but last time didn't work)
Person 2 - I'm cautious about an idea
Person 1 - (thinks: bloody wet blanket!)
Person 2 - Hallo, are you there?
Person 1 - You bloody wet blanket!
Person 2 - (thinks: that hurts my feelings)
Person 2 - Say that to my face, coward!
Person 1 - (thinks - well, if that's what you think of me then f*ck you!)
No blame for person 1 or person 2. Short texts limit communication - you cant discuss detailed thoughts and explore feelings properly in a text. |
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"How did twat 1 try to make the situation better ?
By having an idea to try and turn the business round and offering to talk face to face about it  "
Maybe, but TWAT 1 is the twat that said i'll do it on my own before twat 2 was home for the meeting and TWAT 1 brought up 'giving up' relating to the first business venture. And twat 2 said ... let's talk face to face not twat 1.
Twats.
|
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"REFRAMING
Person 1 - I'm excited by my idea
Person 2 - (thinks: yeah, but last time didn't work)
Person 2 - I'm cautious about an idea
Person 1 - (thinks: bloody wet blanket!)
Person 2 - Hallo, are you there?
Person 1 - You bloody wet blanket!
Person 2 - (thinks: that hurts my feelings)
Person 2 - Say that to my face, coward!
Person 1 - (thinks - well, if that's what you think of me then f*ck you!)
No blame for person 1 or person 2. Short texts limit communication - you cant discuss detailed thoughts and explore feelings properly in a text."
Texts are shit. However, you go slightly off at point 2. Person 2 never said It didn't work last time. Person 2 said sure let's talk but that doesn't mean I WILL go into business.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How did twat 1 try to make the situation better ?
By having an idea to try and turn the business round and offering to talk face to face about it
Maybe, but TWAT 1 is the twat that said i'll do it on my own before twat 2 was home for the meeting and TWAT 1 brought up 'giving up' relating to the first business venture. And twat 2 said ... let's talk face to face not twat 1.
Twats.
"
Yea , you are correct , having wasted another 5 minutes of my time re reading the op , I now feel as much of a twat as twat 1 and twat 2 for giving a shit ! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When people appear difficult it's worth considering if they are trying to provoke a reaction or whether they are sending a signal......
I tend to find ignoring the situation will eventually result in the person being forced to play their hand without the subterfuge..
It also allows them time for introspective reflection.....
So.... Who was being introspective and subversive ? Person 1 or Person 2 ?"
No point trying to force fit a solution....
So I would suggest from the opening post person 2 would be well advised to step away from the situation and give person 1 time and space too work through their issues and decide what's important to them on their path to the future .....
Better to leave something to heal naturally than repair it badly in haste or risk a permanent break .......
|
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"Person 2 replies. Yes. Don't take that as I will go into business though but I will listen to the idea."
This is where it went pear shaped. At such an early juncture in the correspondence there was absolutely no need to state that caveat. It clearly offended. I agree person 1 was a bit touchy but Person 2 simply didn't have to say that.
Hear person 1 out first then tell them to fuck off if you still wish to, as you now have an informed opinion. |
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"Person 2 replies. Yes. Don't take that as I will go into business though but I will listen to the idea.
This is where it went pear shaped. At such an early juncture in the correspondence there was absolutely no need to state that caveat. It clearly offended. I agree person 1 was a bit touchy but Person 2 simply didn't have to say that.
Hear person 1 out first then tell them to fuck off if you still wish to, as you now have an informed opinion."
Yeah that's also true... perhaps person 2 could have worded that better or indeed saved it for a face to face conversation once they'd heard the idea. I think they're both a bit touchy though. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
Person 1 needs to grow up if they want to run a successful business. Person 2 needs to work on their communication skills.
If their friendship is strong they will find a way back to each other after a little break. Provided they can be grown ups and agree the past is in the past.
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Pointing a finger at someone leaves 3 fingers pointing back at the finger pointer ......... oooh! I like that!  "
Reading backwards up the thread now... It's what my old vicar taught me 40 odd years ago.
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"When people appear difficult it's worth considering if they are trying to provoke a reaction or whether they are sending a signal......
I tend to find ignoring the situation will eventually result in the person being forced to play their hand without the subterfuge..
It also allows them time for introspective reflection.....
So.... Who was being introspective and subversive ? Person 1 or Person 2 ?
No point trying to force fit a solution....
So I would suggest from the opening post person 2 would be well advised to step away from the situation and give person 1 time and space too work through their issues and decide what's important to them on their path to the future .....
Better to leave something to heal naturally than repair it badly in haste or risk a permanent break .......
"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"REFRAMING
Person 1 - I'm excited by my idea
Person 2 - (thinks: yeah, but last time didn't work)
Person 2 - I'm cautious about an idea
Person 1 - (thinks: bloody wet blanket!)
Person 2 - Hallo, are you there?
Person 1 - You bloody wet blanket!
Person 2 - (thinks: that hurts my feelings)
Person 2 - Say that to my face, coward!
Person 1 - (thinks - well, if that's what you think of me then f*ck you!)
No blame for person 1 or person 2. Short texts limit communication - you cant discuss detailed thoughts and explore feelings properly in a text.
Texts are shit. However, you go slightly off at point 2. Person 2 never said It didn't work last time. Person 2 said sure let's talk but that doesn't mean I WILL go into business.
"
Granny, you are making my point for me! Short texts leave people speculating on what's behind the words - and they may draw the wrong conclusions. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Person 2 was very fair and wanted the facts before making a decision. Also made sure person 1 didn't make an assumption that the business partnership was go go go without said facts. Person 1 got the hump that person 2 didn't jump on board blindly. Person 1 is a dick. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Thinkers welcome.
Tosspots welcome but your advice may be overlooked or worse.
Person 1 and person 2 have been friends for five or six years having known each other for about seven.
Person 1 and 2 start a business with each putting in the same amount of money. The business does not take off.
Both often think about business and what would work and what went wrong, often suggesting ideas to each other and talking them through.
They remain good friends and see each other at least 2 or 3 times a week for different lengths of time and activities.
Then, a year after the first business failed, person 1 mails person 2 and says.... I have a great idea. Think this will work. Can we talk about it when you are back?
Person 2 replies. Yes. Don't take that as I will go into business though but I will listen to the idea. Looking forward to seeing you when I get back.
Person 1 Doesn't respond to three mails, very short mails saying person 2 has arrived home.
12 hours later person 1 texts. Sorry I tried to involve you in business. You are right not to enter into business because that is what every entrepeneur does isn't it? Just give up after the first hurdle. I will go into business on my own if that's okay with you. xx
Person 2 says... Call me. I want to say what I have to say by voice. Not via a cowardly text.
Person 1 does not call.
12 or so hours go by. Person 1 mails and says. I did not call cos I knew what you were going to say.
In brief. Person 2 says Person 1 shat on their freindship and business partnership by refusing to listen to what person 2 had to say and has just cut them out of plans.
Person 1 says person 2 is just a tit for tat merchant and is only mad because person 1 never phoned them.
Over to anyone who is still awake. "
Well, that's a screwy situation. If I were person 2 I'd just leave the situation no matter how much I'd invested in terms of time and money. Too much drama and life's too short. If person 1 was such a good friend, they'll probably come around, apologise and pay person 2 back eventually,but I'd never go back into business with them because they made it personal and part of being an entrepreneur, in my opinion, is staying objective and not taking things personally, nor making it personal |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Thinkers welcome.
Tosspots welcome but your advice may be overlooked or worse.
Person 1 and person 2 have been friends for five or six years having known each other for about seven.
Person 1 and 2 start a business with each putting in the same amount of money. The business does not take off.
Both often think about business and what would work and what went wrong, often suggesting ideas to each other and talking them through.
They remain good friends and see each other at least 2 or 3 times a week for different lengths of time and activities.
Then, a year after the first business failed, person 1 mails person 2 and says.... I have a great idea. Think this will work. Can we talk about it when you are back?
Person 2 replies. Yes. Don't take that as I will go into business though but I will listen to the idea. Looking forward to seeing you when I get back.
Person 1 Doesn't respond to three mails, very short mails saying person 2 has arrived home.
12 hours later person 1 texts. Sorry I tried to involve you in business. You are right not to enter into business because that is what every entrepeneur does isn't it? Just give up after the first hurdle. I will go into business on my own if that's okay with you. xx
Person 2 says... Call me. I want to say what I have to say by voice. Not via a cowardly text.
Person 1 does not call.
12 or so hours go by. Person 1 mails and says. I did not call cos I knew what you were going to say.
In brief. Person 2 says Person 1 shat on their freindship and business partnership by refusing to listen to what person 2 had to say and has just cut them out of plans.
Person 1 says person 2 is just a tit for tat merchant and is only mad because person 1 never phoned them.
Over to anyone who is still awake.
Well, that's a screwy situation. If I were person 2 I'd just leave the situation no matter how much I'd invested in terms of time and money. Too much drama and life's too short. If person 1 was such a good friend, they'll probably come around, apologise and pay person 2 back eventually,but I'd never go back into business with them because they made it personal and part of being an entrepreneur, in my opinion, is staying objective and not taking things personally, nor making it personal"
Additional note:
If person one is being such a problem, trying to take your investment back will just exacerbate the situation and whether the friendship was compromised or not before, it will be after. Better to just drop it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Person 2 was willing to listen to person 1's business pitch and only give a yes/no answer once they had all the facts.
Person 1 totally missed that point from whatbimade from it.
perhaps person 1 should take a little time to read his emails properly and out together a proper business plan/pitch before throwing their toys out of the pram."
Say nowt till thee knows owt - if you don't start the race you can never win it, but watch thee pennies cause they are better in your pocket than theers
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hmmmmm so no-one asks where person 3 comes into the equation
Hmmmmm very interesting.... very interesting indeed ...... hmmmm "
.
A third person!.... What with crazy health and safety these days and all that national insurance, that's crazy talk |
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