FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > When do you merge?
When do you merge?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Since the roundabout thread has caused much debate how about roadworks where a lane is closed off and 2 lanes merge into one.
When do you merge? Do you get out of the closed lane as soon as possible and join the queue in the open lane or carry on down the closed lane and move across nearer the closure? |
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I move in when it's safe to do so. I also allow other people to move in in front of me. The quicker and more orderly fashion this is done in, saves time sitting in traffic jams because of the type of driver described below...
I do not race down the outside lane until the last possible moment then barge in.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As soon as I realise the lanes are merging I put my indicator on and wait for someone to let me in. "
Pretty much that - see loads going right till the end, usually passing 3 or 4 lane closed signs...mustn't be able to see the big red X.....usually a 320d or similar 
The worst I've seen was a nasty crash, some serious damage and people were slowing right down to take photos as they went past. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I move in when it's safe to do so. I also allow other people to move in in front of me. The quicker and more orderly fashion this is done in, saves time sitting in traffic jams because of the type of driver described below...
I do not race down the outside lane until the last possible moment then barge in. "
That's the one.   |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As soon as I see a safe gap, then I indicate and give them the puppy dog eyes! Always thank them as well. I also start to leave a gap for anyone else that needs to come in SENSIBLY! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It SHOULD be. But as were British, we have an obsession with queuing, and so we tend to see the people joining at the "zip", as pushing in. But it does tend to be Audi's, BMWs and boy racers that tear it up right down the empty lane to where their lane runs out. That's what rubs people up the wrong way and puts peoples defences up. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Moving in early is what causes the tail backs.
I thought that at the 'gap' it's one from one lane then one from the other."
We have a winner. This quote is from a frustrated highways engineer taken from another forum. SARP = self appointed road police and refers to the muppets who try to block the empty lane.
"YOU'VE PAID FOR BOTH LANES. USE THEM.
I design roads and traffic management arrangements (roadworks layouts) for a living, I've done it for 15 years.
The merge is where it is because that is the most appropriate location to merge. You may not understand the reasons for it, but there WILL be reasons it is where it is. White Knights/SARPs are absolutely not welcome, not helpful, and in many cases actually increase the risk by holding up traffic and forcing merges/queues away from the designated, agreed point. Agreed with various highway authorities, AND THE POLICE. The real police, not the self-appointed lot."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Moving in early is what causes the tail backs.
I thought that at the 'gap' it's one from one lane then one from the other.
We have a winner. This quote is from a frustrated highways engineer taken from another forum. SARP = self appointed road police and refers to the muppets who try to block the empty lane.
"YOU'VE PAID FOR BOTH LANES. USE THEM.
I design roads and traffic management arrangements (roadworks layouts) for a living, I've done it for 15 years.
The merge is where it is because that is the most appropriate location to merge. You may not understand the reasons for it, but there WILL be reasons it is where it is. White Knights/SARPs are absolutely not welcome, not helpful, and in many cases actually increase the risk by holding up traffic and forcing merges/queues away from the designated, agreed point. Agreed with various highway authorities, AND THE POLICE. The real police, not the self-appointed lot."
"
So you're the bastard responsible for managed motorways 
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Moving in early is what causes the tail backs.
I thought that at the 'gap' it's one from one lane then one from the other.
We have a winner. This quote is from a frustrated highways engineer taken from another forum. SARP = self appointed road police and refers to the muppets who try to block the empty lane.
"YOU'VE PAID FOR BOTH LANES. USE THEM.
I design roads and traffic management arrangements (roadworks layouts) for a living, I've done it for 15 years.
The merge is where it is because that is the most appropriate location to merge. You may not understand the reasons for it, but there WILL be reasons it is where it is. White Knights/SARPs are absolutely not welcome, not helpful, and in many cases actually increase the risk by holding up traffic and forcing merges/queues away from the designated, agreed point. Agreed with various highway authorities, AND THE POLICE. The real police, not the self-appointed lot."
So you're the bastard responsible for managed motorways
"
I may be a bastard but not for that reason, I was merely quoting his point of view |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As always follow highway code
People assume they know everything.
Be it roundabout, roadworks, pulling onto a motorway whatever.
Follow highway code, it's law.
It's not a guideline to move according to how important you think you are, how much in a rush etc...
Arrogant, lazy, aggressive drivers are everywhere.
They do not own the road, it's a public highway, and people must obide by the highway code.
Op this is not directly aimed at you.
But everyone who thinks they know better.
Ask a police if you think you know better people.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"As always follow highway code
People assume they know everything.
Be it roundabout, roadworks, pulling onto a motorway whatever.
Follow highway code, it's law.
It's not a guideline to move according to how important you think you are, how much in a rush etc...
Arrogant, lazy, aggressive drivers are everywhere.
They do not own the road, it's a public highway, and people must obide by the highway code.
Op this is not directly aimed at you.
But everyone who thinks they know better.
Ask a police if you think you know better people.
"
I assumed it wasn't aimed at me since the Highway Code is quite clear on using both lanes and merging at the designated merge point one by one zipper fashion. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Moving in early is what causes the tail backs.
I thought that at the 'gap' it's one from one lane then one from the other.
We have a winner. This quote is from a frustrated highways engineer taken from another forum. SARP = self appointed road police and refers to the muppets who try to block the empty lane.
"YOU'VE PAID FOR BOTH LANES. USE THEM.
I design roads and traffic management arrangements (roadworks layouts) for a living, I've done it for 15 years.
The merge is where it is because that is the most appropriate location to merge. You may not understand the reasons for it, but there WILL be reasons it is where it is. White Knights/SARPs are absolutely not welcome, not helpful, and in many cases actually increase the risk by holding up traffic and forcing merges/queues away from the designated, agreed point. Agreed with various highway authorities, AND THE POLICE. The real police, not the self-appointed lot."
So you're the bastard responsible for managed motorways
I may be a bastard but not for that reason, I was merely quoting his point of view "
To be honest the managed motorway on the m62 has made things a lot better.
Is it possible for the speed zones to be left on at say 60 by mistake e.g at 5am when nothing is about? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Moving in early is what causes the tail backs.
I thought that at the 'gap' it's one from one lane then one from the other.
We have a winner. This quote is from a frustrated highways engineer taken from another forum. SARP = self appointed road police and refers to the muppets who try to block the empty lane.
"YOU'VE PAID FOR BOTH LANES. USE THEM.
I design roads and traffic management arrangements (roadworks layouts) for a living, I've done it for 15 years.
The merge is where it is because that is the most appropriate location to merge. You may not understand the reasons for it, but there WILL be reasons it is where it is. White Knights/SARPs are absolutely not welcome, not helpful, and in many cases actually increase the risk by holding up traffic and forcing merges/queues away from the designated, agreed point. Agreed with various highway authorities, AND THE POLICE. The real police, not the self-appointed lot."
"
.
When does the merge start?
If your driving along and it says lane closed in 1000 yds do you merge at that sign or leave it till the sign that says 800yds
Or 600 yds
400yds
200yds
Ahhhhh road cones... I think I should have merged  |
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What is wrong with driving down a now empty piece of road before merging at the pre-defined merging point?
Why is it called barging in? What are those in the busy lane upset about? Are they angry because the person who drove down the empty road is now in front of them?
If being in front is so important in their life do they need to question if they are mentally old enough to be driving cars? It does not hurt you to let someone in and it makes everything better for everyone.
Also if you are in the outside lane and you immediately stop and try to merge as soon as you see the blockage ahead you are stopping people from using a perfectly good piece of road and therefore reducing the car handling capacity of the road and causing a longer tailback than is needed.
If you get 2 lanes for cars, use them. You have been given them for a reason. Don't assume you know better. |
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"What is wrong with driving down a now empty piece of road before merging at the pre-defined merging point?
Why is it called barging in? What are those in the busy lane upset about? Are they angry because the person who drove down the empty road is now in front of them?
If being in front is so important in their life do they need to question if they are mentally old enough to be driving cars? It does not hurt you to let someone in and it makes everything better for everyone.
Also if you are in the outside lane and you immediately stop and try to merge as soon as you see the blockage ahead you are stopping people from using a perfectly good piece of road and therefore reducing the car handling capacity of the road and causing a longer tailback than is needed.
If you get 2 lanes for cars, use them. You have been given them for a reason. Don't assume you know better. "
. Angry much?! 
Not everyone would or should merge immediately. That causes just as much of a jam. When there are two lanes, they should be used, of course they should but when you're pretty much on the merge and everyone else has moved in safely there's always one wanker who's going too fast and isn't particularly courteous.
No prizes for guessing which camp you're in! |
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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago
Wakefield |
"Moving in early is what causes the tail backs.
I thought that at the 'gap' it's one from one lane then one from the other."
That is the correct way to do it but few motorists do it that way.
I.E. keep in the lane you are in until the restriction. At the restriction traffic should merge one from one lane and one from the other like a zip fastener |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Moving in early is what causes the tail backs.
I thought that at the 'gap' it's one from one lane then one from the other.
That is the correct way to do it but few motorists do it that way.
I.E. keep in the lane you are in until the restriction. At the restriction traffic should merge one from one lane and one from the other like a zip fastener "
.
I don't think how and when you merge has got anything to do with tailbacks!
Let's say one lane holds 100 cars per mile and you have 84 on it.
On the other lane is another 84 cars about to get onto your lane
Now your trying to get 168 cars on a lane that holds a 100, you get the exact same problem at busy junctions on any motorway
The motorway is already at capacity and the new junction is putting on extra cars which then have to filter backwards to let the new lot on!.
In reality what actually happens is they squash tougher tighter at first and then as they try to open up the safe gaps the tailbacks start!
Whether you filter two lanes in over a mile or four miles really is only a safety issue, not a tailback issue! |
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"What is wrong with driving down a now empty piece of road before merging at the pre-defined merging point?
Why is it called barging in? What are those in the busy lane upset about? Are they angry because the person who drove down the empty road is now in front of them?
If being in front is so important in their life do they need to question if they are mentally old enough to be driving cars? It does not hurt you to let someone in and it makes everything better for everyone.
Also if you are in the outside lane and you immediately stop and try to merge as soon as you see the blockage ahead you are stopping people from using a perfectly good piece of road and therefore reducing the car handling capacity of the road and causing a longer tailback than is needed.
If you get 2 lanes for cars, use them. You have been given them for a reason. Don't assume you know better.
. Angry much?!
Not everyone would or should merge immediately. That causes just as much of a jam. When there are two lanes, they should be used, of course they should but when you're pretty much on the merge and everyone else has moved in safely there's always one wanker who's going too fast and isn't particularly courteous.
No prizes for guessing which camp you're in! "
Hmm. A lot of assumptions here. Firstly no anger. Just asking straight questions.
Secondly how can you decide that because I drive to the end of anext empty road before merging that I do so in a discourteous and dangerous way?
You seem to be seeking division and polarisation when I have simply asked some questions and am interested in the answers as well as putting across some facts and points of view none of which single anyone out or call specific people into question. It really is rather sad. |
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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
I drive under the speed limit to a point near the merge point, then indicate and merge into a gap.
If I am prevented from merging at that point by a SARP, I will then go forward another car and make absolutely sure I get in, so that the SARP still has me in front, and hopefully moves slightly nearer to a self righteous explosion of moral indignance.
Reading this thread, it appears I am therefore a BMW driving cunt, which comes as a bit of a surprise. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Moving in early is what causes the tail backs.
I thought that at the 'gap' it's one from one lane then one from the other.
That is the correct way to do it but few motorists do it that way.
I.E. keep in the lane you are in until the restriction. At the restriction traffic should merge one from one lane and one from the other like a zip fastener .
I don't think how and when you merge has got anything to do with tailbacks!
Let's say one lane holds 100 cars per mile and you have 84 on it.
On the other lane is another 84 cars about to get onto your lane
Now your trying to get 168 cars on a lane that holds a 100, you get the exact same problem at busy junctions on any motorway
The motorway is already at capacity and the new junction is putting on extra cars which then have to filter backwards to let the new lot on!.
In reality what actually happens is they squash tougher tighter at first and then as they try to open up the safe gaps the tailbacks start!
Whether you filter two lanes in over a mile or four miles really is only a safety issue, not a tailback issue!"
Sorry, run that past me again. You have 84 cars in one lane and 84 in the 2nd so 168 cars over a length of 1 mile. Queue them all in the one lane and you have 168 cars over a length of 2 miles. In what way is that not a longer tailback? What have I missed here? |
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"What is wrong with driving down a now empty piece of road before merging at the pre-defined merging point?
Why is it called barging in? What are those in the busy lane upset about? Are they angry because the person who drove down the empty road is now in front of them?
If being in front is so important in their life do they need to question if they are mentally old enough to be driving cars? It does not hurt you to let someone in and it makes everything better for everyone.
Also if you are in the outside lane and you immediately stop and try to merge as soon as you see the blockage ahead you are stopping people from using a perfectly good piece of road and therefore reducing the car handling capacity of the road and causing a longer tailback than is needed.
If you get 2 lanes for cars, use them. You have been given them for a reason. Don't assume you know better.
. Angry much?!
Not everyone would or should merge immediately. That causes just as much of a jam. When there are two lanes, they should be used, of course they should but when you're pretty much on the merge and everyone else has moved in safely there's always one wanker who's going too fast and isn't particularly courteous.
No prizes for guessing which camp you're in!
Hmm. A lot of assumptions here. Firstly no anger. Just asking straight questions.
Secondly how can you decide that because I drive to the end of anext empty road before merging that I do so in a discourteous and dangerous way?
You seem to be seeking division and polarisation when I have simply asked some questions and am interested in the answers as well as putting across some facts and points of view none of which single anyone out or call specific people into question. It really is rather sad."
Oh... haha! Sorry I was being cheeky with the camp thing. No offence intended.
In my experience there generally is one person (I'll refrain from name calling!) who behaves like he/she owns the road and has no courtesy to other drivers. We're all in the same boat and we all need to be in the same lane so I figure the best way to do that is to be safe and be kind to other drivers and leave enough space for them to get in. I think someone mentioned the zip effect.
I think you're pretty lucky not to have experienced that one road owner in that situation. It's a regular occurrence every time I hit the M6 South.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Moving in early is what causes the tail backs.
I thought that at the 'gap' it's one from one lane then one from the other.
That is the correct way to do it but few motorists do it that way.
I.E. keep in the lane you are in until the restriction. At the restriction traffic should merge one from one lane and one from the other like a zip fastener .
I don't think how and when you merge has got anything to do with tailbacks!
Let's say one lane holds 100 cars per mile and you have 84 on it.
On the other lane is another 84 cars about to get onto your lane
Now your trying to get 168 cars on a lane that holds a 100, you get the exact same problem at busy junctions on any motorway
The motorway is already at capacity and the new junction is putting on extra cars which then have to filter backwards to let the new lot on!.
In reality what actually happens is they squash tougher tighter at first and then as they try to open up the safe gaps the tailbacks start!
Whether you filter two lanes in over a mile or four miles really is only a safety issue, not a tailback issue!
Sorry, run that past me again. You have 84 cars in one lane and 84 in the 2nd so 168 cars over a length of 1 mile. Queue them all in the one lane and you have 168 cars over a length of 2 miles. In what way is that not a longer tailback? What have I missed here?"
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Nothing,that's exactly what I said, it's not how you merge that causes the tailbacks perse but the fact that you've gone from two lanes to one! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I drive under the speed limit to a point near the merge point, then indicate and merge into a gap.
If I am prevented from merging at that point by a SARP, I will then go forward another car and make absolutely sure I get in, so that the SARP still has me in front, and hopefully moves slightly nearer to a self righteous explosion of moral indignance.
Reading this thread, it appears I am therefore a BMW driving cunt, which comes as a bit of a surprise. "
.
Not every cunt can afford a BMW... Some have to buy Audi's |
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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago
Titz Towers, North Notts |
As the proud possessor of a Flying Carpet with Turkish delight and decking at the rear, I don't often find this to be a problem. Low lamp posts in unexpected places are more of a headache. Literally.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Nothing,that's exactly what I said, it's not how you merge that causes the tailbacks perse but the fact that you've gone from two lanes to one!"
Ah right I see. Lane restriction causes tailbacks but incorrect use of preceding lanes affects length of the tailback. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"What's a SARP? 
Self Appointed Road Police, apparently.
Oh! Haha!
I think I might be one of those when it comes to middle lane drivers.
I don't think I'm sorry about that though. "
Middle lane clowns are a whole new level of fuckwits  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Nothing,that's exactly what I said, it's not how you merge that causes the tailbacks perse but the fact that you've gone from two lanes to one!
Ah right I see. Lane restriction causes tailbacks but incorrect use of preceding lanes affects length of the tailback."
.
No I said I don't think merging perse causes tailbacks regardless of how it's done, its merely a safety issue
Or at least I thought I did |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Nothing,that's exactly what I said, it's not how you merge that causes the tailbacks perse but the fact that you've gone from two lanes to one!
Ah right I see. Lane restriction causes tailbacks but incorrect use of preceding lanes affects length of the tailback..
No I said I don't think merging perse causes tailbacks regardless of how it's done, its merely a safety issue
Or at least I thought I did "
Well to go back to your example you either have 2 lanes of 84 cars causing a 1 mile tailback or 1 lane of 168 causing a 2 mile tailback. Which do you think is more likely to cause problems at preceding junctions? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Nothing,that's exactly what I said, it's not how you merge that causes the tailbacks perse but the fact that you've gone from two lanes to one!
Ah right I see. Lane restriction causes tailbacks but incorrect use of preceding lanes affects length of the tailback..
No I said I don't think merging perse causes tailbacks regardless of how it's done, its merely a safety issue
Or at least I thought I did
Well to go back to your example you either have 2 lanes of 84 cars causing a 1 mile tailback or 1 lane of 168 causing a 2 mile tailback. Which do you think is more likely to cause problems at preceding junctions?"
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But you wouldn't have two lanes at the preceding junction, you've already merged to one lane?, or are you going from three lanes to two lanes now |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If you want to speed things up at any bottle neck restriction, you can either speed the cars up so they get through the restriction faster, or make the restriction bigger or stop them getting on in the first place!
I can't see how you merge them at the bottle neck making any difference to how fast they go through, I mean you've already slowed the bottle neck presumably for safety reasons anyhow, so everybody behind going faster is going to have queue surely? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Nothing,that's exactly what I said, it's not how you merge that causes the tailbacks perse but the fact that you've gone from two lanes to one!
Ah right I see. Lane restriction causes tailbacks but incorrect use of preceding lanes affects length of the tailback..
No I said I don't think merging perse causes tailbacks regardless of how it's done, its merely a safety issue
Or at least I thought I did
Well to go back to your example you either have 2 lanes of 84 cars causing a 1 mile tailback or 1 lane of 168 causing a 2 mile tailback. Which do you think is more likely to cause problems at preceding junctions?.
But you wouldn't have two lanes at the preceding junction, you've already merged to one lane?, or are you going from three lanes to two lanes now"
Ok lets try this for you. There is a slip road on to the motorway 1.5 miles from a merge point. 168 cars split over 2 lanes will leave 0.5 miles for traffic to enter motorway however 168 cars in 1 lane will tailback 0.5 mile past the slip road causing holdups on a feeder road. I realise this probably one of your wind-ups but if not have a |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Nothing,that's exactly what I said, it's not how you merge that causes the tailbacks perse but the fact that you've gone from two lanes to one!
Ah right I see. Lane restriction causes tailbacks but incorrect use of preceding lanes affects length of the tailback..
No I said I don't think merging perse causes tailbacks regardless of how it's done, its merely a safety issue
Or at least I thought I did
Well to go back to your example you either have 2 lanes of 84 cars causing a 1 mile tailback or 1 lane of 168 causing a 2 mile tailback. Which do you think is more likely to cause problems at preceding junctions?.
But you wouldn't have two lanes at the preceding junction, you've already merged to one lane?, or are you going from three lanes to two lanes now
Ok lets try this for you. There is a slip road on to the motorway 1.5 miles from a merge point. 168 cars split over 2 lanes will leave 0.5 miles for traffic to enter motorway however 168 cars in 1 lane will tailback 0.5 mile past the slip road causing holdups on a feeder road. I realise this probably one of your wind-ups but if not have a "
.
Yeah but in reality all your actually doing is taking the queue off the feeder road and adding it onto the back of the motorway queue aren't you? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Nothing,that's exactly what I said, it's not how you merge that causes the tailbacks perse but the fact that you've gone from two lanes to one!
Ah right I see. Lane restriction causes tailbacks but incorrect use of preceding lanes affects length of the tailback..
No I said I don't think merging perse causes tailbacks regardless of how it's done, its merely a safety issue
Or at least I thought I did
Well to go back to your example you either have 2 lanes of 84 cars causing a 1 mile tailback or 1 lane of 168 causing a 2 mile tailback. Which do you think is more likely to cause problems at preceding junctions?.
But you wouldn't have two lanes at the preceding junction, you've already merged to one lane?, or are you going from three lanes to two lanes now
Ok lets try this for you. There is a slip road on to the motorway 1.5 miles from a merge point. 168 cars split over 2 lanes will leave 0.5 miles for traffic to enter motorway however 168 cars in 1 lane will tailback 0.5 mile past the slip road causing holdups on a feeder road. I realise this probably one of your wind-ups but if not have a .
Yeah but in reality all your actually doing is taking the queue off the feeder road and adding it onto the back of the motorway queue aren't you?"
So it affects one road rather than feeding back on to subsidiary roads. I fail to see why that is a bad thing.
It is only in Britain with our obsession with queueing that this is an issue. Our European colleagues operate the merge in turn system without any issue and even our American chums can master it. It is only us Brits that seem to think anyone using the other lane is cheating and pushing in. Try driving abroad then coming back to the UK, our driving standards are so poor. Once it was the French and Italians that were a joke now it's us. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Nothing,that's exactly what I said, it's not how you merge that causes the tailbacks perse but the fact that you've gone from two lanes to one!
Ah right I see. Lane restriction causes tailbacks but incorrect use of preceding lanes affects length of the tailback..
No I said I don't think merging perse causes tailbacks regardless of how it's done, its merely a safety issue
Or at least I thought I did
Well to go back to your example you either have 2 lanes of 84 cars causing a 1 mile tailback or 1 lane of 168 causing a 2 mile tailback. Which do you think is more likely to cause problems at preceding junctions?.
But you wouldn't have two lanes at the preceding junction, you've already merged to one lane?, or are you going from three lanes to two lanes now
Ok lets try this for you. There is a slip road on to the motorway 1.5 miles from a merge point. 168 cars split over 2 lanes will leave 0.5 miles for traffic to enter motorway however 168 cars in 1 lane will tailback 0.5 mile past the slip road causing holdups on a feeder road. I realise this probably one of your wind-ups but if not have a .
Yeah but in reality all your actually doing is taking the queue off the feeder road and adding it onto the back of the motorway queue aren't you?
So it affects one road rather than feeding back on to subsidiary roads. I fail to see why that is a bad thing.
It is only in Britain with our obsession with queueing that this is an issue. Our European colleagues operate the merge in turn system without any issue and even our American chums can master it. It is only us Brits that seem to think anyone using the other lane is cheating and pushing in. Try driving abroad then coming back to the UK, our driving standards are so poor. Once it was the French and Italians that were a joke now it's us."
.
Your right, I've just come back from Paris, wonderful example of amazing European driving standards |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Nothing,that's exactly what I said, it's not how you merge that causes the tailbacks perse but the fact that you've gone from two lanes to one!
Ah right I see. Lane restriction causes tailbacks but incorrect use of preceding lanes affects length of the tailback..
No I said I don't think merging perse causes tailbacks regardless of how it's done, its merely a safety issue
Or at least I thought I did
Well to go back to your example you either have 2 lanes of 84 cars causing a 1 mile tailback or 1 lane of 168 causing a 2 mile tailback. Which do you think is more likely to cause problems at preceding junctions?.
But you wouldn't have two lanes at the preceding junction, you've already merged to one lane?, or are you going from three lanes to two lanes now
Ok lets try this for you. There is a slip road on to the motorway 1.5 miles from a merge point. 168 cars split over 2 lanes will leave 0.5 miles for traffic to enter motorway however 168 cars in 1 lane will tailback 0.5 mile past the slip road causing holdups on a feeder road. I realise this probably one of your wind-ups but if not have a .
Yeah but in reality all your actually doing is taking the queue off the feeder road and adding it onto the back of the motorway queue aren't you?
So it affects one road rather than feeding back on to subsidiary roads. I fail to see why that is a bad thing.
It is only in Britain with our obsession with queueing that this is an issue. Our European colleagues operate the merge in turn system without any issue and even our American chums can master it. It is only us Brits that seem to think anyone using the other lane is cheating and pushing in. Try driving abroad then coming back to the UK, our driving standards are so poor. Once it was the French and Italians that were a joke now it's us..
Your right, I've just come back from Paris, wonderful example of amazing European driving standards "
Quite agree! How many fights did you see between cyclists and motorists? How many accidents? Now compare that to London |
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"
It is only in Britain with our obsession with queueing that this is an issue. Our European colleagues operate the merge in turn system without any issue and even our American chums can master it. It is only us Brits that seem to think anyone using the other lane is cheating and pushing in. Try driving abroad then coming back to the UK, our driving standards are so poor. Once it was the French and Italians that were a joke now it's us."
I drove from Edinburgh to Marrakech and then back to Malaga last year and we could learn a lot from the European driving. Although Paris was totally nuts and Valencia not much better. I don't even want to describe Ceuta!!
I think that all drivers should be made to ride a bike on the roads as part of their driving test. I think if drivers were aware of just how much you take your life in your hands when you're on two wheels. |
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"
Follow highway code, it's law.
It's not a guideline ....
They do not own the road, it's a public highway, and people must obide by the highway code.
"
Highway Code isn't law.
A guide is exactly what it is...
There is no offence I know of in British law for not following the Highway Code.
The Highway Code is a guide and highlights laws, and contains many guides to stay within the law, and IS based on law, but it itself, and its entirety, are not "law".
Just to be clear.
Ta
D |
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"
Follow highway code, it's law.
It's not a guideline ....
They do not own the road, it's a public highway, and people must obide by the highway code.
Highway Code isn't law.
A guide is exactly what it is...
There is no offence I know of in British law for not following the Highway Code.
The Highway Code is a guide and highlights laws, and contains many guides to stay within the law, and IS based on law, but it itself, and its entirety, are not "law".
Just to be clear.
Ta
D "
Correct!
Go to the top of the class.
Find yourself breaking any of the highway code rules, they WILL be used against you in court. |
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"Considering that you should only be in lane 2 or 3 if you are overtaking, the correct answer is that you should pull over as soon as possible"
That depends on the reason for 2 lanes. In busy areas lane 2 is often used for capacity instead of overtaking. Especially where the speed limit is 30mph and overtaking is not much of a prospect.
Where 2 lanes merge, lane 2 is used to reduce the length of any tailbacks. Why stick to one lane when there is perfectly good tarmac available to stop the road backing up? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Where 2 lanes merge, lane 2 is used to reduce the length of any tailbacks. Why stick to one lane when there is perfectly good tarmac available to stop the road backing up?"
I will never understand the car drivers that sit in a clogged up left lane when there is a half mile of empty road on the right. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Considering that you should only be in lane 2 or 3 if you are overtaking, the correct answer is that you should pull over as soon as possible
That depends on the reason for 2 lanes. In busy areas lane 2 is often used for capacity instead of overtaking. Especially where the speed limit is 30mph and overtaking is not much of a prospect.
Where 2 lanes merge, lane 2 is used to reduce the length of any tailbacks. Why stick to one lane when there is perfectly good tarmac available to stop the road backing up?"
.
Again it doesn't make any difference to the actual number of cars queuing though or length of time getting through the bottle neck, just turns a 3 mile tail back using one lane into a 1½ mile tail back using two? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
It is only in Britain with our obsession with queueing that this is an issue. Our European colleagues operate the merge in turn system without any issue and even our American chums can master it. It is only us Brits that seem to think anyone using the other lane is cheating and pushing in. Try driving abroad then coming back to the UK, our driving standards are so poor. Once it was the French and Italians that were a joke now it's us.
I drove from Edinburgh to Marrakech and then back to Malaga last year and we could learn a lot from the European driving. Although Paris was totally nuts and Valencia not much better. I don't even want to describe Ceuta!!
I think that all drivers should be made to ride a bike on the roads as part of their driving test. I think if drivers were aware of just how much you take your life in your hands when you're on two wheels. "
I will never ride a motorbike, as they are just not as safe as a car. I may feel differently once the midlife crisis begins. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The golden rules at roadworks as told to me by a friend whose job it is to plan traffic controls;
Merge as close to the end as possible
Merge and allow merging
Keep moving even at a crawl and avoid using your brake |
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"Considering that you should only be in lane 2 or 3 if you are overtaking, the correct answer is that you should pull over as soon as possible
That depends on the reason for 2 lanes. In busy areas lane 2 is often used for capacity instead of overtaking. Especially where the speed limit is 30mph and overtaking is not much of a prospect.
Where 2 lanes merge, lane 2 is used to reduce the length of any tailbacks. Why stick to one lane when there is perfectly good tarmac available to stop the road backing up?.
Again it doesn't make any difference to the actual number of cars queuing though or length of time getting through the bottle neck, just turns a 3 mile tail back using one lane into a 1½ mile tail back using two?"
Yes and frees up the road further back and potentially freeing up other junctions from becoming involved. |
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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago
Wakefield |
It is the same as the "phantom" traffic jams on motorways caused by people slowing down.
The cars behind slow down a little bit more in case the have to stop and by the time this has gone on for a few minutes the cars at the back are coming upon stationary traffic and have to come to a complete stop.
When they get to the clear road they are surprised that there is nothing there to have caused the jam in the first place
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I will drive along the empty lane for as long as I can. Often giving a cheery wave to the nice considerate people who have vacated it. At the end I shall indicate and move in and be on my merry way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I will drive along the empty lane for as long as I can. Often giving a cheery wave to the nice considerate people who have vacated it. At the end I shall indicate and move in and be on my merry way. "
.
I take the train ... I'll wave at you as I pass drinking a nice glass of Shiraz  |
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"The golden rules at roadworks as told to me by a friend whose job it is to plan traffic controls;
Merge as close to the end as possible
Merge and allow merging
Keep moving even at a crawl and avoid using your brake"
then why oh why do the traffic mismanagers keep putting signs up saying move into the other lane?
big yellow signs with the black arrows pointing left????
if you want the traffic to merge at a certain point why not put up a sing saying merge here??
what pisses me off is the BMW still pushing forward when they are past the cones and coming into the stationary lane of traffic that has already merged as per the flipping arrow signs have demanded?????? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I will drive along the empty lane for as long as I can. Often giving a cheery wave to the nice considerate people who have vacated it. At the end I shall indicate and move in and be on my merry way. .
I take the train ... I'll wave at you as I pass drinking a nice glass of Shiraz "
Your taste in wine is appalling. |
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"The golden rules at roadworks as told to me by a friend whose job it is to plan traffic controls;
Merge as close to the end as possible
Merge and allow merging
Keep moving even at a crawl and avoid using your brake
then why oh why do the traffic mismanagers keep putting signs up saying move into the other lane?
big yellow signs with the black arrows pointing left????
if you want the traffic to merge at a certain point why not put up a sing saying merge here??
what pisses me off is the BMW still pushing forward when they are past the cones and coming into the stationary lane of traffic that has already merged as per the flipping arrow signs have demanded??????"
It is very annoying when the German lane is blocked off! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I will drive along the empty lane for as long as I can. Often giving a cheery wave to the nice considerate people who have vacated it. At the end I shall indicate and move in and be on my merry way. .
I take the train ... I'll wave at you as I pass drinking a nice glass of Shiraz
Your taste in wine is appalling. "
.
Appalling... Maybe..
The secret is always pick the 14.5% bottle... Ssshhh
|
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"The golden rules at roadworks as told to me by a friend whose job it is to plan traffic controls;
Merge as close to the end as possible
Merge and allow merging
Keep moving even at a crawl and avoid using your brake
then why oh why do the traffic mismanagers keep putting signs up saying move into the other lane?
big yellow signs with the black arrows pointing left????
if you want the traffic to merge at a certain point why not put up a sing saying merge here??
what pisses me off is the BMW still pushing forward when they are past the cones and coming into the stationary lane of traffic that has already merged as per the flipping arrow signs have demanded??????"
They are telling you what is to come. That a merge is ahead and you need to consider your actions.
Turn left and turn right signs are usually 30yds or so before the junction, does that mean you drive into walls as you turn left or right exactly when the sign tells you?
How about the red lights at the far side of junctions. Do you drive up to them and stop?
When you see a sign saying STOP, do you get out lock the car and make the rest of the journey on foot?
Of course not. You look at the signs and interpret the best course of action for you and other road users and carry that out.
Signs are usually for information. Very few are a direct instruction.
We are expected to apply common sense and use our adult brains to look at the situation and act in a socially responsible way. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I will drive along the empty lane for as long as I can. Often giving a cheery wave to the nice considerate people who have vacated it. At the end I shall indicate and move in and be on my merry way. .
I take the train ... I'll wave at you as I pass drinking a nice glass of Shiraz
Your taste in wine is appalling. .
Appalling... Maybe..
The secret is always pick the 14.5% bottle... Ssshhh
"
Enjoy it on the platform as your train is cancelled |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"The golden rules at roadworks as told to me by a friend whose job it is to plan traffic controls;
Merge as close to the end as possible
Merge and allow merging
Keep moving even at a crawl and avoid using your brake
then why oh why do the traffic mismanagers keep putting signs up saying move into the other lane?
big yellow signs with the black arrows pointing left????
if you want the traffic to merge at a certain point why not put up a sing saying merge here??
what pisses me off is the BMW still pushing forward when they are past the cones and coming into the stationary lane of traffic that has already merged as per the flipping arrow signs have demanded??????
They are telling you what is to come. That a merge is ahead and you need to consider your actions.
Turn left and turn right signs are usually 30yds or so before the junction, does that mean you drive into walls as you turn left or right exactly when the sign tells you?
How about the red lights at the far side of junctions. Do you drive up to them and stop?
When you see a sign saying STOP, do you get out lock the car and make the rest of the journey on foot?
Of course not. You look at the signs and interpret the best course of action for you and other road users and carry that out.
Signs are usually for information. Very few are a direct instruction.
We are expected to apply common sense and use our adult brains to look at the situation and act in a socially responsible way."
Therein lies the problem. Sadly the UK motorist cannot be trusted to apply common sense. They need signage to tell them what to do otherwise they will join the queue and accuse others of cheating and pushing in |
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"The golden rules at roadworks as told to me by a friend whose job it is to plan traffic controls;
Merge as close to the end as possible
Merge and allow merging
Keep moving even at a crawl and avoid using your brake
then why oh why do the traffic mismanagers keep putting signs up saying move into the other lane?
big yellow signs with the black arrows pointing left????
if you want the traffic to merge at a certain point why not put up a sing saying merge here??
what pisses me off is the BMW still pushing forward when they are past the cones and coming into the stationary lane of traffic that has already merged as per the flipping arrow signs have demanded??????
They are telling you what is to come. That a merge is ahead and you need to consider your actions.
Turn left and turn right signs are usually 30yds or so before the junction, does that mean you drive into walls as you turn left or right exactly when the sign tells you?
How about the red lights at the far side of junctions. Do you drive up to them and stop?
When you see a sign saying STOP, do you get out lock the car and make the rest of the journey on foot?
Of course not. You look at the signs and interpret the best course of action for you and other road users and carry that out.
Signs are usually for information. Very few are a direct instruction.
We are expected to apply common sense and use our adult brains to look at the situation and act in a socially responsible way.
Therein lies the problem. Sadly the UK motorist cannot be trusted to apply common sense. They need signage to tell them what to do otherwise they will join the queue and accuse others of cheating and pushing in"
I am incapable of finding a coherent argument to that statement sadly. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I will drive along the empty lane for as long as I can. Often giving a cheery wave to the nice considerate people who have vacated it. At the end I shall indicate and move in and be on my merry way. .
I take the train ... I'll wave at you as I pass drinking a nice glass of Shiraz
Your taste in wine is appalling. .
Appalling... Maybe..
The secret is always pick the 14.5% bottle... Ssshhh
Enjoy it on the platform as your train is cancelled "
.
If your road works weren't so badly run, I wouldn't have to take the train!
|
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"Moving in early is what causes the tail backs.
I thought that at the 'gap' it's one from one lane then one from the other.
We have a winner. This quote is from a frustrated highways engineer taken from another forum. SARP = self appointed road police and refers to the muppets who try to block the empty lane.
"YOU'VE PAID FOR BOTH LANES. USE THEM.
I design roads and traffic management arrangements (roadworks layouts) for a living, I've done it for 15 years.
The merge is where it is because that is the most appropriate location to merge. You may not understand the reasons for it, but there WILL be reasons it is where it is. White Knights/SARPs are absolutely not welcome, not helpful, and in many cases actually increase the risk by holding up traffic and forcing merges/queues away from the designated, agreed point. Agreed with various highway authorities, AND THE POLICE. The real police, not the self-appointed lot."
.
When does the merge start?
If your driving along and it says lane closed in 1000 yds do you merge at that sign or leave it till the sign that says 800yds
Or 600 yds
400yds
200yds
Ahhhhh road cones... I think I should have merged "
The highway code is clear. Use ALL lanes up to the obstruction then merge in turn. It's simple, it's clear, it's safest. |
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"Moving in early is what causes the tail backs.
I thought that at the 'gap' it's one from one lane then one from the other.
We have a winner. This quote is from a frustrated highways engineer taken from another forum. SARP = self appointed road police and refers to the muppets who try to block the empty lane.
"YOU'VE PAID FOR BOTH LANES. USE THEM.
I design roads and traffic management arrangements (roadworks layouts) for a living, I've done it for 15 years.
The merge is where it is because that is the most appropriate location to merge. You may not understand the reasons for it, but there WILL be reasons it is where it is. White Knights/SARPs are absolutely not welcome, not helpful, and in many cases actually increase the risk by holding up traffic and forcing merges/queues away from the designated, agreed point. Agreed with various highway authorities, AND THE POLICE. The real police, not the self-appointed lot."
.
When does the merge start?
If your driving along and it says lane closed in 1000 yds do you merge at that sign or leave it till the sign that says 800yds
Or 600 yds
400yds
200yds
Ahhhhh road cones... I think I should have merged
The highway code is clear. Use ALL lanes up to the obstruction then merge in turn. It's simple, it's clear, it's safest."
Not if you really need to sit there and be pissed off at people it isn't. |
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"What is wrong with driving down a now empty piece of road before merging at the pre-defined merging point?
Why is it called barging in? What are those in the busy lane upset about? Are they angry because the person who drove down the empty road is now in front of them?
If being in front is so important in their life do they need to question if they are mentally old enough to be driving cars? It does not hurt you to let someone in and it makes everything better for everyone.
Also if you are in the outside lane and you immediately stop and try to merge as soon as you see the blockage ahead you are stopping people from using a perfectly good piece of road and therefore reducing the car handling capacity of the road and causing a longer tailback than is needed.
If you get 2 lanes for cars, use them. You have been given them for a reason. Don't assume you know better. "
this |
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"What is wrong with driving down a now empty piece of road before merging at the pre-defined merging point?
Why is it called barging in? What are those in the busy lane upset about? Are they angry because the person who drove down the empty road is now in front of them?
If being in front is so important in their life do they need to question if they are mentally old enough to be driving cars? It does not hurt you to let someone in and it makes everything better for everyone.
Also if you are in the outside lane and you immediately stop and try to merge as soon as you see the blockage ahead you are stopping people from using a perfectly good piece of road and therefore reducing the car handling capacity of the road and causing a longer tailback than is needed.
If you get 2 lanes for cars, use them. You have been given them for a reason. Don't assume you know better.
. Angry much?!
Not everyone would or should merge immediately. That causes just as much of a jam. When there are two lanes, they should be used, of course they should but when you're pretty much on the merge and everyone else has moved in safely there's always one wanker who's going too fast and isn't particularly courteous.
No prizes for guessing which camp you're in! "
I'm guessing he's in the camp that is doing it correctly and safely in accordance with the highway code.
Use all lanes up to the obstruction then merge in turn. It's simple, it's clear, it's safest. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What is wrong with driving down a now empty piece of road before merging at the pre-defined merging point?
Why is it called barging in? What are those in the busy lane upset about? Are they angry because the person who drove down the empty road is now in front of them?
If being in front is so important in their life do they need to question if they are mentally old enough to be driving cars? It does not hurt you to let someone in and it makes everything better for everyone.
Also if you are in the outside lane and you immediately stop and try to merge as soon as you see the blockage ahead you are stopping people from using a perfectly good piece of road and therefore reducing the car handling capacity of the road and causing a longer tailback than is needed.
If you get 2 lanes for cars, use them. You have been given them for a reason. Don't assume you know better.
. Angry much?!
Not everyone would or should merge immediately. That causes just as much of a jam. When there are two lanes, they should be used, of course they should but when you're pretty much on the merge and everyone else has moved in safely there's always one wanker who's going too fast and isn't particularly courteous.
No prizes for guessing which camp you're in!
I'm guessing he's in the camp that is doing it correctly and safely in accordance with the highway code.
Use all lanes up to the obstruction then merge in turn. It's simple, it's clear, it's safest."
.
Apparently so..
It's OK I've got it covered
I'm just going to drive at 70 in the middle lane and then everyone's merging into me! |
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"Considering that you should only be in lane 2 or 3 if you are overtaking, the correct answer is that you should pull over as soon as possible"
No you should not. The highway code is quite clear, you should use ALL lanes up to the obstruction then merge in turn. Doing anything else could be considered as dangerous driving. Actually trying to block a lane to stop others from using it is illegal and could result in points and fines.
I sometimes wonder if any of those that object to drivers using the empty lane ( as the highway code says you should) have ever actually looked at it since they passed their test. |
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"What is wrong with driving down a now empty piece of road before merging at the pre-defined merging point?
Why is it called barging in? What are those in the busy lane upset about? Are they angry because the person who drove down the empty road is now in front of them?
If being in front is so important in their life do they need to question if they are mentally old enough to be driving cars? It does not hurt you to let someone in and it makes everything better for everyone.
Also if you are in the outside lane and you immediately stop and try to merge as soon as you see the blockage ahead you are stopping people from using a perfectly good piece of road and therefore reducing the car handling capacity of the road and causing a longer tailback than is needed.
If you get 2 lanes for cars, use them. You have been given them for a reason. Don't assume you know better.
. Angry much?!
Not everyone would or should merge immediately. That causes just as much of a jam. When there are two lanes, they should be used, of course they should but when you're pretty much on the merge and everyone else has moved in safely there's always one wanker who's going too fast and isn't particularly courteous.
No prizes for guessing which camp you're in!
I'm guessing he's in the camp that is doing it correctly and safely in accordance with the highway code.
Use all lanes up to the obstruction then merge in turn. It's simple, it's clear, it's safest."
Show me where I disagree?! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Follow highway code, it's law.
It's not a guideline ....
They do not own the road, it's a public highway, and people must obide by the highway code.
Highway Code isn't law.
A guide is exactly what it is...
There is no offence I know of in British law for not following the Highway Code.
The Highway Code is a guide and highlights laws, and contains many guides to stay within the law, and IS based on law, but it itself, and its entirety, are not "law".
Just to be clear.
Ta
D
Correct!
Go to the top of the class.
Find yourself breaking any of the highway code rules, they WILL be used against you in court."
The highway code is not law, but it is a guidance to ALL road users to enable them to comply with the Road Traffic Act which IS law.
That said, I prefer to follow 'Roadcraft' - The Police drivers handbook |
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"What is wrong with driving down a now empty piece of road before merging at the pre-defined merging point?
Why is it called barging in? What are those in the busy lane upset about? Are they angry because the person who drove down the empty road is now in front of them?
If being in front is so important in their life do they need to question if they are mentally old enough to be driving cars? It does not hurt you to let someone in and it makes everything better for everyone.
Also if you are in the outside lane and you immediately stop and try to merge as soon as you see the blockage ahead you are stopping people from using a perfectly good piece of road and therefore reducing the car handling capacity of the road and causing a longer tailback than is needed.
If you get 2 lanes for cars, use them. You have been given them for a reason. Don't assume you know better.
. Angry much?!
Not everyone would or should merge immediately. That causes just as much of a jam. When there are two lanes, they should be used, of course they should but when you're pretty much on the merge and everyone else has moved in safely there's always one wanker who's going too fast and isn't particularly courteous.
No prizes for guessing which camp you're in!
I'm guessing he's in the camp that is doing it correctly and safely in accordance with the highway code.
Use all lanes up to the obstruction then merge in turn. It's simple, it's clear, it's safest.
Show me where I disagree?! "
There are lots of things I'd love to show you( even got pics if you want) but where you do or don't disagree is not really one of them. |
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Think if there is more than 30 vehicles per lane you get congestion. What gets me is the twats using the hard shoulder which I saw a few weeks back to come to a complete stop just like everyone else who was waiting for the motorway to be cleared of an accident.  |
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I used to get angry with people not getting into the open lane early and using the closing one to get to the front. However, a couple of years ago there was a similar thread and it caused me to re-read the highway code concerning merging in turn (zipper style). So now I do as advised and use the least congested lane until the closer point and wait my turn to merge.
What is lacking, especially in light of changes to the highway code, is effective signage to indicate that a zipper style merge should be adopted. Other countries have specific signs with a Zipper graphic to indicate that this is what should be done. |
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