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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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According to figures obtained by the BBC from a freedom of information request, less than 1 in 20 of arrested beggars are homeless people.
On the whole, is this not good news? I would rather that the police left homeless beggars alone on the whole. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"According to figures obtained by the BBC from a freedom of information request, less than 1 in 20 of arrested beggars are homeless people.
On the whole, is this not good news? I would rather that the police left homeless beggars alone on the whole."
Sadly I think its one of those situations we have little chance of ever resolving....
Each beggar has their own unique back-story.......
 |
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Depends on why the individual was arrested/targeted by the police (usually a stationary spot particular to the beggar) but I used to be on first-name terms with half the beggars in south London.
Many of them were housed.
If you're tempted to give money to a beggar, don't.
Buy some food or better yet set up a direct debit to Shelter. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don't see a problem when they don't approach you as it remains your choice to give.
I don't like it when they stop you and almost force you into giving, or when they have young children. Or when they're on public transport and moving up and down the carriage asking everyone for money. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I may be wrong but I thought it was 1 in 5 so 20%. That's of those arrested though too so there will be more people who beg that the police are probably aware of as being homeless so would not necessarily arrest.
They showed an interview with a homeless man who said he'd prefer a drink or something to eat than money. But the guy they interviewed from Crisis said you should give what you feel is appropriate be it money or food etc.
I always think - many of us are only one pay packet or similar away from that situation. It can happen relatively quickly,  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I may be wrong but I thought it was 1 in 5 so 20%. That's of those arrested though too so there will be more people who beg that the police are probably aware of as being homeless so would not necessarily arrest.
They showed an interview with a homeless man who said he'd prefer a drink or something to eat than money. But the guy they interviewed from Crisis said you should give what you feel is appropriate be it money or food etc.
I always think - many of us are only one pay packet or similar away from that situation. It can happen relatively quickly, "
You are right. It is less than 1 in 5. I wonder about the motivation for those who are not homeless. I would prefer responses from people with some experience or understanding of the issues rather than judgmental reactions (though appreciate that I cannot dictate responses to a thread). It doesn't seem to me like an especially easy way to make a few bob. |
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I think the figures are probably skewed by "those arrested" rather than all homeless, so both figures could technically be right. That said, our local homeless charity did a survey and found only 1 in 10 beggars didn't have a home. They always advise to offer food, or donate time or money to a proper charity.
Mr ddc |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think the figures are probably skewed by "those arrested" rather than all homeless, so both figures could technically be right. That said, our local homeless charity did a survey and found only 1 in 10 beggars didn't have a home. They always advise to offer food, or donate time or money to a proper charity.
Mr ddc"
My guess (and it is only a guess) is that the police are less likely to arrest the truly homeless (though I have heard of occasions on a cold night when the police have arrested just to give them a warmer cell). Are there legitimate reasons for others to be begging? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Each beggar has their own unique back-story......."
Agreed, there's one I chat to around my neck of the woods quite often, she's a very kind and friendly woman.
I also don't like them being referred to as 'beggars', very few of them actually 'beg', they may have fallen on hard times but they still have pride and dignity as human beings. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Each beggar has their own unique back-story.......
Agreed, there's one I chat to around my neck of the woods quite often, she's a very kind and friendly woman.
I also don't like them being referred to as 'beggars', very few of them actually 'beg', they may have fallen on hard times but they still have pride and dignity as human beings."
No offence intended. I did not use the word "swarm." Surely, a beggar is someone who begs. There was no intention to take away dignity or respect. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Each beggar has their own unique back-story.......
Agreed, there's one I chat to around my neck of the woods quite often, she's a very kind and friendly woman.
I also don't like them being referred to as 'beggars', very few of them actually 'beg', they may have fallen on hard times but they still have pride and dignity as human beings.
No offence intended. I did not use the word "swarm." Surely, a beggar is someone who begs. There was no intention to take away dignity or respect."
I'm sure you didn't, I just think there's a big difference between someone sitting as saying 'can you spare some change please?' and flat out begging. |
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"I don't see a problem when they don't approach you as it remains your choice to give.
I don't like it when they stop you and almost force you into giving, or when they have young children. Or when they're on public transport and moving up and down the carriage asking everyone for money. "
A daily occurrence on London public transport unfortunately. |
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When I lived in central London there was a guy that often slept almost opposite my place. He never asked anyone for money but sold the Big Issue - always in a non-pushy style. I saw him with snow covering him, as well as frost. He was reluctant to accept anything, even some food, and I knew he was certainly one of the deserving, being ex military.
I don't give to beggars as a rule and dislike how some sit by cash machines: but I think some of these are more systematic abusers of kindness and guilt.
Whether there are 1,000,000 abusers for every decent homeless person, it doesn't weaken my belief that we all deserve to have some basic foundations of support in our lives and that the homeless need care. It's just that cash isn't usually the way to help. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Each beggar has their own unique back-story.......
Agreed, there's one I chat to around my neck of the woods quite often, she's a very kind and friendly woman.
I also don't like them being referred to as 'beggars', very few of them actually 'beg', they may have fallen on hard times but they still have pride and dignity as human beings.
No offence intended. I did not use the word "swarm." Surely, a beggar is someone who begs. There was no intention to take away dignity or respect.
I'm sure you didn't, I just think there's a big difference between someone sitting as saying 'can you spare some change please?' and flat out begging."
I don't. I was not trying to imply anything by using the term. I was using it to mean "to ask for food or money," as per the Oxford dictionary definition. Do you believe it has a different meaning? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Each beggar has their own unique back-story.......
Agreed, there's one I chat to around my neck of the woods quite often, she's a very kind and friendly woman.
I also don't like them being referred to as 'beggars', very few of them actually 'beg', they may have fallen on hard times but they still have pride and dignity as human beings.
No offence intended. I did not use the word "swarm." Surely, a beggar is someone who begs. There was no intention to take away dignity or respect.
I'm sure you didn't, I just think there's a big difference between someone sitting as saying 'can you spare some change please?' and flat out begging.
I don't. I was not trying to imply anything by using the term. I was using it to mean "to ask for food or money," as per the Oxford dictionary definition. Do you believe it has a different meaning?"
Yes, to me, begging is lowering yourself for someone else's charity, I don't see people asking for money as being that, they're simply asking you to give them a hand in life, even if it's just pennies. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
Yes, to me, begging is lowering yourself for someone else's charity, I don't see people asking for money as being that, they're simply asking you to give them a hand in life, even if it's just pennies."
But the definition of begging is asking for food or money. Are you not putting your own interpretation on the term? Perhaps it is used with such negativity now that it does have that implication? I used it to refer to people who ask for food or money. |
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We have a beggar at every cashpoint now, and every food establishment. We even have the occasional aggressive beggar, that will demand and swear if you don't him anything. I actually know a few of them from years ago, before they went down this particular path, so when people give them money i know the good it will do for them....once they've converted it into something they can put up their arm, nose or drink  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"According to figures obtained by the BBC from a freedom of information request, less than 1 in 20 of arrested beggars are homeless people.
On the whole, is this not good news? I would rather that the police left homeless beggars alone on the whole."
I have it on good authority , no one you see homeless in Southampton begging on the streets is homeless , after they have been spoken to by police once |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"According to figures obtained by the BBC from a freedom of information request, less than 1 in 20 of arrested beggars are homeless people.
On the whole, is this not good news? I would rather that the police left homeless beggars alone on the whole.
I have it on good authority , no one you see homeless in Southampton begging on the streets is homeless , after they have been spoken to by police once "
There must be street homeless there? It's a city. Or am I missing your point? I may be as it's been a long day.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Depends on why the individual was arrested/targeted by the police (usually a stationary spot particular to the beggar) but I used to be on first-name terms with half the beggars in south London.
Many of them were housed.
If you're tempted to give money to a beggar, don't.
Buy some food or better yet set up a direct debit to Shelter. "
I work in this sector don't give money! Offer to buy food or donate directly to charity |
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I won't give anyone on the street money. I may offer to buy them a cup of tea or a sandwich but would not give them cash.
I used to...
That all changed one day when I was sat in a Tesco car park waiting for a client and saw what I thought was a group of local homeless men pull up in a BMW wearing suits and looking very dapper. They went into Tesco (I assume to get changed in the loos) and came out wearing old tatty clothing before heading off in the direction of the local high street where they usually frequented.
I got talking to one of them the next time I saw him and he admitted that he had quite a nice house but made good money from begging so kept at it.
I just donate directly to homeless charities now. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I won't give anyone on the street money. I may offer to buy them a cup of tea or a sandwich but would not give them cash.
I used to...
That all changed one day when I was sat in a Tesco car park waiting for a client and saw what I thought was a group of local homeless men pull up in a BMW wearing suits and looking very dapper. They went into Tesco (I assume to get changed in the loos) and came out wearing old tatty clothing before heading off in the direction of the local high street where they usually frequented.
I got talking to one of them the next time I saw him and he admitted that he had quite a nice house but made good money from begging so kept at it.
I just donate directly to homeless charities now. "
So you think non-homeless begging is a purely commercial activity? |
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"I won't give anyone on the street money. I may offer to buy them a cup of tea or a sandwich but would not give them cash.
I used to...
That all changed one day when I was sat in a Tesco car park waiting for a client and saw what I thought was a group of local homeless men pull up in a BMW wearing suits and looking very dapper. They went into Tesco (I assume to get changed in the loos) and came out wearing old tatty clothing before heading off in the direction of the local high street where they usually frequented.
I got talking to one of them the next time I saw him and he admitted that he had quite a nice house but made good money from begging so kept at it.
I just donate directly to homeless charities now.
So you think non-homeless begging is a purely commercial activity?"
No, I would just rather donate to a charity that meets the basic needs of the masses.
When you give to individial people on the street you don't know what their situation is or what it's actually being used for. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
So you think non-homeless begging is a purely commercial activity?
No, I would just rather donate to a charity that meets the basic needs of the masses.
When you give to individial people on the street you don't know what their situation is or what it's actually being used for."
I raised why people would ask for food or money (see, being politically sensitive now) on the street if they are not homeless. You suggested that some do it out of a purely commercial motive. Are there any other motives do you think? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I met someone who works with the homeless of Newcastle. He said that none of the people begging (that's what it is) in the city centre was actually homeless and all had the choice of support and lodgings. The majority were, according to him, begging for drug money. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I met someone who works with the homeless of Newcastle. He said that none of the people begging (that's what it is) in the city centre was actually homeless and all had the choice of support and lodgings. The majority were, according to him, begging for drug money."
It is not at all an adverse reaction from me. Why do so many in society dismiss those with addictions as bad folk beyond reprieve? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Am i supposed to believe what the bbc say?
It kind of only gets worse when the bbc info can only have come from the police. Besides what does that actually mean "in housing"
In housing could mean anything and doesnt mean the person doesnt need money for food and water and clothing and gas and electricity. Given that the unemployed get sanctioned for minor infringements of overly harsh rules how do they survive ? |
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"
So you think non-homeless begging is a purely commercial activity?
No, I would just rather donate to a charity that meets the basic needs of the masses.
When you give to individial people on the street you don't know what their situation is or what it's actually being used for.
I raised why people would ask for food or money (see, being politically sensitive now) on the street if they are not homeless. You suggested that some do it out of a purely commercial motive. Are there any other motives do you think?"
Of course there are. Unlimited.
However there are no ways of knowing who has genuine needs. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I met someone who works with the homeless of Newcastle. He said that none of the people begging (that's what it is) in the city centre was actually homeless and all had the choice of support and lodgings. The majority were, according to him, begging for drug money.
It is not at all an adverse reaction from me. Why do so many in society dismiss those with addictions as bad folk beyond reprieve?"
I don't think people with addictions are bad.... But I also don't want to fund it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I met someone who works with the homeless of Newcastle. He said that none of the people begging (that's what it is) in the city centre was actually homeless and all had the choice of support and lodgings. The majority were, according to him, begging for drug money.
It is not at all an adverse reaction from me. Why do so many in society dismiss those with addictions as bad folk beyond reprieve? I don't think people with addictions are bad.... But I also don't want to fund it "
People addicted to nicotine have been funding the uk by massive taxes for decades; - I'd guess they didn't want to neither!  |
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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago
Wakefield |
"I think the figures are probably skewed by "those arrested" rather than all homeless, so both figures could technically be right. That said, our local homeless charity did a survey and found only 1 in 10 beggars didn't have a home. They always advise to offer food, or donate time or money to a proper charity.
Mr ddc"
Of course charitis advise to give money to charities.
It lines their pockets instead of helping the homeless.
If you really want to help those sleeping rough help directly not through third party fat cats. |
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I'd give people on the street money. I don't care what they use it for. I have considered my financial situation and decided I have spare money so give it to someone. it is not for me to dictate how they spend that money once I have gifted it to them. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
Of course charitis advise to give money to charities.
It lines their pockets instead of helping the homeless.
If you really want to help those sleeping rough help directly not through third party fat cats."
How much money do you think you would have to give directly to homeless people before they would decide to club together to build a night shelter? To employ specialist staff that work in outreach to meet the needs of entrenched rough sleepers, addiction specialists, housing experts, mental health experts, employment specialists etc. etc?
Giving directly to homeless people never enables them to move off the streets and rejoin mainstream society. It creates a cycle of dependency which perpetuates rough sleeping at keeps them vulnerable and excluded. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Of course charitis advise to give money to charities.
It lines their pockets instead of helping the homeless.
If you really want to help those sleeping rough help directly not through third party fat cats.
How much money do you think you would have to give directly to homeless people before they would decide to club together to build a night shelter? To employ specialist staff that work in outreach to meet the needs of entrenched rough sleepers, addiction specialists, housing experts, mental health experts, employment specialists etc. etc?
Giving directly to homeless people never enables them to move off the streets and rejoin mainstream society. It creates a cycle of dependency which perpetuates rough sleeping at keeps them vulnerable and excluded."
this! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Of course charitis advise to give money to charities.
It lines their pockets instead of helping the homeless.
If you really want to help those sleeping rough help directly not through third party fat cats.
How much money do you think you would have to give directly to homeless people before they would decide to club together to build a night shelter? To employ specialist staff that work in outreach to meet the needs of entrenched rough sleepers, addiction specialists, housing experts, mental health experts, employment specialists etc. etc?
Giving directly to homeless people never enables them to move off the streets and rejoin mainstream society. It creates a cycle of dependency which perpetuates rough sleeping at keeps them vulnerable and excluded. this! "
haha they dont want to be a part of mainstream society and who can blame them
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"
Of course charitis advise to give money to charities.
It lines their pockets instead of helping the homeless.
If you really want to help those sleeping rough help directly not through third party fat cats.
How much money do you think you would have to give directly to homeless people before they would decide to club together to build a night shelter? To employ specialist staff that work in outreach to meet the needs of entrenched rough sleepers, addiction specialists, housing experts, mental health experts, employment specialists etc. etc?
Giving directly to homeless people never enables them to move off the streets and rejoin mainstream society. It creates a cycle of dependency which perpetuates rough sleeping at keeps them vulnerable and excluded."
valid points on both sides. Om my local high street I regularly see the same people sleeping in shop doorways, their there in the evening and again in the morning, some times they ask for some change (not that often) if I have some I give it too them. I see plenty of people just walk by or treat them with disdain and think how that would feel. Its not just about the money or where it goes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Some are annoying, very d*unk homeless dude in one of the walk ways in the tube yelling "gimme 5p" at everyone who walked past for instance.
Not much of an issue for me but you could see a lot of the single women looking back down the corridor to check there was at least someone behind them and moving right over to the oposite side. |
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"
So you think non-homeless begging is a purely commercial activity?
No, I would just rather donate to a charity that meets the basic needs of the masses.
When you give to individial people on the street you don't know what their situation is or what it's actually being used for.
I raised why people would ask for food or money (see, being politically sensitive now) on the street if they are not homeless. You suggested that some do it out of a purely commercial motive. Are there any other motives do you think?"
Lots of people are in vulnerable housing. They live in shelters, b&b's, with friends and family, they aren't technically homeless, but if their jobs are lost, or benefits cut, they have nothing to live on, and their situation means they could still end up on the street suddenly. |
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will i get handcuffed and arrested
