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Folkestone and migrants
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By *ob198Xa OP Man
over a year ago
teleford |
Glad I don't need to cross the Channel. Looks like a nightmare. Who has the solution to solve the migrant problem in Calais?
Whilst I have empathy for those making the crossing into Europe, Europe can not cope with the accelerating numbers making the crossing. It seems an impossible problem |
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By *ob198Xa OP Man
over a year ago
teleford |
"Why does most of the world hate the British, yet want to live here? Its not the the weather."
Frustrating isn't it! Many year ago was in a taxi on the way home with an Iraqi taxi driver. After the driver had a row with one of my d*unk female friends he told us how much he hated British and Americans and how our nations would be destroyed, yet here he was working. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
Forum Mod |
I would hate to be a lorry driver at the moment.....I'd hate to be a lorry driver full stop really but I do feel for them
I don't think we know the half of how bad it is in Calais right now |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I can't quite work it out myself,I mean there illegal immigrants, if that's the case then surely they should be detained and sent home?. I can only assume it's a problem the eu like having for reasons known only to themselves |
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"Why does most of the world hate the British, yet want to live here? Its not the the weather."
I think what will find is that they will hate the governments (uk & usa) for the foreign policies. Just look back over the last 15 odd years.
They wont hate the people of the uk/usa...well bar some exceptions.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The fact many are fleeing from hostile life-threatening situations in their home-land seems lost on some people....  "
.
Andrew Neil actually pulled up his guest on that figure, only around 10% of them were from known troubled countries |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"The fact many are fleeing from hostile life-threatening situations in their home-land seems lost on some people.... .
Andrew Neil actually pulled up his guest on that figure, only around 10% of them were from known troubled countries"
The issue is that we are an island whereas the rest of Europe isn't.
To us we see confusion. We don't know who the genuine asylum seekers are vs the economic migrants. We see the rules on seeking asylum in the first safe country being obviously ignored. We see what we think as other European nations allowing people to travel through their countries and aiming for the UK when they should be doing more themselves.
The simple fact is that places such as Calais are the only means these people have to enter the UK short of hopping in a dinghy and paddling over. As such the 'hot spots' will always be the same.
It's not a UK problem or a French problem. It's a UK and EU problem. Every asylum seeker/economic migrant will have passed through one or more European country before arriving in the UK. There needs to be stricter agreements as to quotas, border controls and assessments across the continent rather than at the final point of entry.
There's no easy solution. a lot of the problem is geographical. It's easy to move across borders in mainland Europe and the channel isn't very wide. Australia and America don't seem to be target countries for anyone seeking to leave Africa, the Middle East or Eastern Europe.
I wonder why?
A |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The fact many are fleeing from hostile life-threatening situations in their home-land seems lost on some people.... .
Andrew Neil actually pulled up his guest on that figure, only around 10% of them were from known troubled countries"
Is that meant to be a salient point,,,,  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The fact many are fleeing from hostile life-threatening situations in their home-land seems lost on some people.... .
Andrew Neil actually pulled up his guest on that figure, only around 10% of them were from known troubled countries
The issue is that we are an island whereas the rest of Europe isn't.
To us we see confusion. We don't know who the genuine asylum seekers are vs the economic migrants. We see the rules on seeking asylum in the first safe country being obviously ignored. We see what we think as other European nations allowing people to travel through their countries and aiming for the UK when they should be doing more themselves.
The simple fact is that places such as Calais are the only means these people have to enter the UK short of hopping in a dinghy and paddling over. As such the 'hot spots' will always be the same.
It's not a UK problem or a French problem. It's a UK and EU problem. Every asylum seeker/economic migrant will have passed through one or more European country before arriving in the UK. There needs to be stricter agreements as to quotas, border controls and assessments across the continent rather than at the final point of entry.
There's no easy solution. a lot of the problem is geographical. It's easy to move across borders in mainland Europe and the channel isn't very wide. Australia and America don't seem to be target countries for anyone seeking to leave Africa, the Middle East or Eastern Europe.
I wonder why?
A"
.
I understand what your saying but
There's 250 million Indians living on less than 10 dollars a week
100 million Chinese
40 million Brazilians
40 million Mexicans.... Etc etc
So all these people lead terrible hard lives as well, do they not get the better life because they didn't have the ability to travel across continents, because they weren't willing to harass truckers break into wagons, climb on trains hide in planes... They don't get the "good life".
The people that think it's cruel or unfair to illegal immigrants to not let them in are not solving the problem, there not even attempting to solve the problem, all there actually doing is easing their conscience!.
There are things you can actually do to help Africa's poor. Or anybody else's |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The fact many are fleeing from hostile life-threatening situations in their home-land seems lost on some people.... "
By reaching france they have escaped the hostile country they came from.
Why take the risk of crossing the Channel when you're already in a safe country? |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"The fact many are fleeing from hostile life-threatening situations in their home-land seems lost on some people.... .
Andrew Neil actually pulled up his guest on that figure, only around 10% of them were from known troubled countries
The issue is that we are an island whereas the rest of Europe isn't.
To us we see confusion. We don't know who the genuine asylum seekers are vs the economic migrants. We see the rules on seeking asylum in the first safe country being obviously ignored. We see what we think as other European nations allowing people to travel through their countries and aiming for the UK when they should be doing more themselves.
The simple fact is that places such as Calais are the only means these people have to enter the UK short of hopping in a dinghy and paddling over. As such the 'hot spots' will always be the same.
It's not a UK problem or a French problem. It's a UK and EU problem. Every asylum seeker/economic migrant will have passed through one or more European country before arriving in the UK. There needs to be stricter agreements as to quotas, border controls and assessments across the continent rather than at the final point of entry.
There's no easy solution. a lot of the problem is geographical. It's easy to move across borders in mainland Europe and the channel isn't very wide. Australia and America don't seem to be target countries for anyone seeking to leave Africa, the Middle East or Eastern Europe.
I wonder why?
A.
I understand what your saying but
There's 250 million Indians living on less than 10 dollars a week
100 million Chinese
40 million Brazilians
40 million Mexicans.... Etc etc
So all these people lead terrible hard lives as well, do they not get the better life because they didn't have the ability to travel across continents, because they weren't willing to harass truckers break into wagons, climb on trains hide in planes... They don't get the "good life".
The people that think it's cruel or unfair to illegal immigrants to not let them in are not solving the problem, there not even attempting to solve the problem, all there actually doing is easing their conscience!.
There are things you can actually do to help Africa's poor. Or anybody else's"
I agree entirely!
Solving any problem at the source will always have longer term benefits than trying to shift it elsewhere.
Tricky in situations of war, religious persecution, ethnic cleansing, drought, disease or disaster though.
I guess historically migration was on a smaller scale purely because the means to travel weren't there, there was no pot of gold at the end of a long trek - and countries used to shoot people trying to hop across a border illegally.
A |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The fact many are fleeing from hostile life-threatening situations in their home-land seems lost on some people....
By reaching france they have escaped the hostile country they came from.
Why take the risk of crossing the Channel when you're already in a safe country? "
You'd need to ask them..... although if you try and imagine what you would do if you were in their situation, you might .... you just might, come to the same answer.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The fact many are fleeing from hostile life-threatening situations in their home-land seems lost on some people....
By reaching france they have escaped the hostile country they came from.
Why take the risk of crossing the Channel when you're already in a safe country?
You'd need to ask them..... although if you try and imagine what you would do if you were in their situation, you might .... you just might, come to the same answer.... "
Personally I'd apply for asylum in the country I was in (presuming its France in this case) and try rebuild my life.
Not live in squalor in the hope of jumping on a truck and entering another country illegally with the risk of deportation back to square one.
But hey, that's just me. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The fact many are fleeing from hostile life-threatening situations in their home-land seems lost on some people....
By reaching france they have escaped the hostile country they came from.
Why take the risk of crossing the Channel when you're already in a safe country?
You'd need to ask them..... although if you try and imagine what you would do if you were in their situation, you might .... you just might, come to the same answer....
Personally I'd apply for asylum in the country I was in (presuming its France in this case) and try rebuild my life.
Not live in squalor in the hope of jumping on a truck and entering another country illegally with the risk of deportation back to square one.
But hey, that's just me. "
I'm sure there will be many refugees who do go for that option......
But obviously in cases where that does happen its far less likely to make the news reports here in the UK..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
There are things you can actually do to help Africa's poor. Or anybody else's
Please enlighten us.....? "
.
There's a number of excellent books you can read if your genuinely interested.
There's a particularly good one called dead aid by an African woman called moyo?.
Most poverty bound countries suffer from extracting institutions, the first line of help they need is genuine diplomatic persuasion to reform their institutions!
In the last 40 years more people got out of poverty in the world through genuine economic activity than aid, in fact as she points out aid to Africa has actually made the situation worse! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The fact many are fleeing from hostile life-threatening situations in their home-land seems lost on some people....
By reaching france they have escaped the hostile country they came from.
Why take the risk of crossing the Channel when you're already in a safe country?
You'd need to ask them..... although if you try and imagine what you would do if you were in their situation, you might .... you just might, come to the same answer.... "
Takes empathy and compassion, unfortunately lacking in our society.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's all just to claim asylum and help from the UK welfare system "
Well-done you..... a blanket answer that covers every individual case....
You should consider a career with the United Nations...... |
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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago
Titz Towers, North Notts |
"It's all just to claim asylum and help from the UK welfare system "
And this is why Farrage isn't just known as that d*unk in the pub who you try not to make eye contact with when you go to the bar. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The fact many are fleeing from hostile life-threatening situations in their home-land seems lost on some people.... .
Andrew Neil actually pulled up his guest on that figure, only around 10% of them were from known troubled countries
The issue is that we are an island whereas the rest of Europe isn't.
To us we see confusion. We don't know who the genuine asylum seekers are vs the economic migrants. We see the rules on seeking asylum in the first safe country being obviously ignored. We see what we think as other European nations allowing people to travel through their countries and aiming for the UK when they should be doing more themselves.
The simple fact is that places such as Calais are the only means these people have to enter the UK short of hopping in a dinghy and paddling over. As such the 'hot spots' will always be the same.
It's not a UK problem or a French problem. It's a UK and EU problem. Every asylum seeker/economic migrant will have passed through one or more European country before arriving in the UK. There needs to be stricter agreements as to quotas, border controls and assessments across the continent rather than at the final point of entry.
There's no easy solution. a lot of the problem is geographical. It's easy to move across borders in mainland Europe and the channel isn't very wide. Australia and America don't seem to be target countries for anyone seeking to leave Africa, the Middle East or Eastern Europe.
I wonder why?
A.
I understand what your saying but
There's 250 million Indians living on less than 10 dollars a week
100 million Chinese
40 million Brazilians
40 million Mexicans.... Etc etc
So all these people lead terrible hard lives as well, do they not get the better life because they didn't have the ability to travel across continents, because they weren't willing to harass truckers break into wagons, climb on trains hide in planes... They don't get the "good life".
The people that think it's cruel or unfair to illegal immigrants to not let them in are not solving the problem, there not even attempting to solve the problem, all there actually doing is easing their conscience!.
There are things you can actually do to help Africa's poor. Or anybody else's
I agree entirely!
Solving any problem at the source will always have longer term benefits than trying to shift it elsewhere.
Tricky in situations of war, religious persecution, ethnic cleansing, drought, disease or disaster though.
I guess historically migration was on a smaller scale purely because the means to travel weren't there, there was no pot of gold at the end of a long trek - and countries used to shoot people trying to hop across a border illegally.
A"
.
It is tricky but it's been done in the past.
The Balkans was wracked with war now they have growth and a chance of a better life (incidentally Kosovo is a Muslim country that was saved by Tony Blair and George bush) just saying like!
And ebola got effectively stopped in Africa by international collaboration!
Religious persecution! See Kosovo
A Muslim secular country with a constitution keeping religion separated from state |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"It's all just to claim asylum and help from the UK welfare system
Well-done you..... a blanket answer that covers every individual case....
You should consider a career with the United Nations...... "
It's not ALL about claiming asylum and benefits though I don't doubt that's part of it.
Britain has (had?) a reputation for a level of charitable acceptance of the weary stranger who turned up at our doors.
The almost universal comprehension of the English language makes participating in the 'system' much easier.
For many nations, there's already an (in)formal support network of their countryfolk in place in the UK and third sector organisations helping them out.
Add in a legal aid funded crowd of solicitors who'd otherwise be ambulance chasing and you can see why Britain is so attractive. |
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By *ob198Xa OP Man
over a year ago
teleford |
"
Takes empathy and compassion, unfortunately lacking in our society. "
I agree with having empathy and compassion but the reality is there is a point when the scale of the problem is greater than the resources that can be put towards it. Are you suggesting we should have unlimited compassion and freely open our boarders to a billion Africans living in extreme poverty? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
There are things you can actually do to help Africa's poor. Or anybody else's
Please enlighten us.....? .
There's a number of excellent books you can read if your genuinely interested.
There's a particularly good one called dead aid by an African woman called moyo?.
Most poverty bound countries suffer from extracting institutions, the first line of help they need is genuine diplomatic persuasion to reform their institutions!
In the last 40 years more people got out of poverty in the world through genuine economic activity than aid, in fact as she points out aid to Africa has actually made the situation worse!"
I've replied privately...
Book's eh......!
" Aid making things worse",,,,
That's bolloix.... try feeding a starving child books..... |
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By *ob198Xa OP Man
over a year ago
teleford |
"Just from memory, it seems the same people who object to UK overseas aid are the ones who object to immigration.
We won't help them stay at home and we won't welcome them here, eh?"
I actually agree strongly with overseas aid for this very reason. Done right aid can be very effective. It is a shame too much of it gets lots to ineffective projects and corruption. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Just from memory, it seems the same people who object to UK overseas aid are the ones who object to immigration.
We won't help them stay at home and we won't welcome them here, eh?
I actually agree strongly with overseas aid for this very reason. Done right aid can be very effective. It is a shame too much of it gets lots to ineffective projects and corruption."
Overseas aid is moving away from money. Land Rovers and JCBs are more the order of the day now. It helps the recipients and helps British industry.
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truth from a kent person.u live with the constant lets help the migrants theme,fuck them send the barstards back home to where they come from ,they are nothing but vermin,send the army in to sort out the tunnel and ferry ports.or just shoot the buggers,ruining our lovely garden .thankyou u dirty smelly barstards |
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By *BA123Man
over a year ago
DUDLEY |
Y r they escaping from France ? Surely the weather is better down in the south and the lovely scenic countryside ........ oh just realised the french won't give them accommodation n money !!!!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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An immigrant in France finds a genie and rubs it gets 3,wishes ..1st wish a million pounds 2nd wish a million pound house wow he says and the genies says for your 3rd wish .. immigrant ask for a British passport .. pooof the imigrant says where's my house and money, the genie replies welcome to Britain |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The fact many are fleeing from hostile life-threatening situations in their home-land seems lost on some people.... "
Some people would argue that they have passed through many safe European countries to get to France.... In any of which they could have applied for asylum. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm a trucker (it's ace by the way!) for me, ferry is fine but because we have really only one way to the train and ferry it goes tits up here when there's a problem in France.
On the French side. Ferry port is generally fine. Lots of fences up etc so if there's no delay you can scoot on through.
Tunnel is a different story. There's no real control measures in place there until you are actually checking in.
I've been queued at both for hours and never had an issue - there haven't been any TV cameras there either I might add...
Having seen these folks, how they survive there and heard some trapped in trucks, they're not doing it for financial gain. That's desperation.
B |
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