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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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A thought provoked by listening to BBC Radio 4 yesterday.
Why were Black people ever called Black when indeed they are a multitude of Brown?
Is it the association of evil with the word Black and the idea from the first explorers of the world that 'Black' people where somehow 'evil'.
Or indeed are the origins of the word Negro somehow involved.
Just a light hearted thought for your Thursday |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The same reason white get white? You could also say is it racist to say some one is Lilly livered? Or a white flag for cowardice of surrender? White feather?
Or is racism just a white problem? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The same reason white get white? You could also say is it racist to say some one is Lilly livered? Or a white flag for cowardice of surrender? White feather?
Or is racism just a white problem?"
I think the origin of colour and their extended use is an interesting point. I had not considered this.
I have no desire to start a racist debate but would say that predominantly racism is a 'Black' issue.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The same reason white get white? You could also say is it racist to say some one is Lilly livered? Or a white flag for cowardice of surrender? White feather?
Or is racism just a white problem?"
 |
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"That's interesting, I never knew that. I assumed it was an American derivative of some kind.
Still not sure why the 'Black' label was used"
Possibly because the Romans preferred Nubian slaves and they were the blackest. But I'm guessing. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"That's interesting, I never knew that. I assumed it was an American derivative of some kind.
Still not sure why the 'Black' label was used
Possibly because the Romans preferred Nubian slaves and they were the blackest. But I'm guessing. "
Maybe that's true. I somehow forget that the Romans or Greeks will have something to do with it. |
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By *eKoopleCouple
over a year ago
Germany / Manchester |
***This will be brief***
In short, the term black and it's identity is nothing but to simplify race classification by some of the earlier travellers. This same type of classification goes for White people too. If you look at the works of Christoph Meiner, he breaks down the classification groups, according to him. |
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By *redrobCouple (MM)
over a year ago
Kilmarnock |
As far as I know. Using the term black for black people originated in the USA during the period of slavery. It was brought on to describe the Kids of slaves and slavers so they would be known as Black instead of white no matter how light or dark the pigmentation of the skin. Could be wrong but that's what I've been told as a kid in school.
Now a racist isn't only predominantly a black issue as u seem to think. We aren't the ones who sit in a room and decide that using all these terms are offensive. I admit, alot of black people cry racism for shit reasons, but they won't have to if other folk didn't walk about on egg shells around them.
Not an argument. Just trying to explain as best as I can. |
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By *eKoopleCouple
over a year ago
Germany / Manchester |
"That's interesting, I never knew that. I assumed it was an American derivative of some kind.
Still not sure why the 'Black' label was used
Possibly because the Romans preferred Nubian slaves and they were the blackest. But I'm guessing.
Maybe that's true. I somehow forget that the Romans or Greeks will have something to do with it. "
The Romans used slaves of all races, not just Black as many history books would have you believe. They enslaved, Teachers, Builders, General labour and anyone that would be an asset to building their empire. They had black Emperors, like Septimus Serverus and also had black soldiers and mercenaries.
Quite frankly, The Roman Empire had to be the biggest equal opportunities employer of that time. |
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"That's interesting, I never knew that. I assumed it was an American derivative of some kind.
Still not sure why the 'Black' label was used
Possibly because the Romans preferred Nubian slaves and they were the blackest. But I'm guessing. "
Sorry - not true.
1/ Romans did NOT (underlined three times) have the same ideas of race as we do and were definitely open to other cultures.
2/ Slavery in the Roman world is probably the closest analogy to racism - slaves were essentially considered sub-human and chattel, to be used and disposed of as needed.
3/ That aside, slaves were NOT predominantly black but came from all over the empire and from beyond its borders. Anyone could be a slave. |
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"That's interesting, I never knew that. I assumed it was an American derivative of some kind.
Still not sure why the 'Black' label was used
Possibly because the Romans preferred Nubian slaves and they were the blackest. But I'm guessing.
Sorry - not true.
1/ Romans did NOT (underlined three times) have the same ideas of race as we do and were definitely open to other cultures.
2/ Slavery in the Roman world is probably the closest analogy to racism -
slaves were essentially considered sub-human and chattel, to be used and disposed of as needed
3/ That aside, slaves were NOT predominantly black but came from all
over the empire and from beyond its borders. Anyone could be a slave.
"
Which bit isn't true? The bit where I say 'possibly' or 'I'm guessing'?' |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I remember when I was a kid we weren't allowed to say 'black', we had to say 'coloured',... then it all changed and all of a sudden we're not allowed to say coloured, we have to say black. "
I hate when people say "coloured" to describe black people, because we are all coloured! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That's interesting, I never knew that. I assumed it was an American derivative of some kind.
Still not sure why the 'Black' label was used
Possibly because the Romans preferred Nubian slaves and they were the blackest. But I'm guessing.
Maybe that's true. I somehow forget that the Romans or Greeks will have something to do with it.
The Romans used slaves of all races, not just Black as many history books would have you believe. They enslaved, Teachers, Builders, General labour and anyone that would be an asset to building their empire. They had black Emperors, like Septimus Serverus and also had black soldiers and mercenaries.
Quite frankly, The Roman Empire had to be the biggest equal opportunities employer of that time."
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"Possibly because the Romans preferred Nubian slaves and they were the blackest. But I'm guessing.
^ This statement has no basis in fact"
The eminent Harvard classicist, Frank Snowdon, whose publications include Blacks in Antiquity (1970) wrote:
"nothing comparable to the virulent color prejudice of modern times existed in the ancient world. This is the view of most scholars who have examined the evidence and who have come to conclusions such as these: the ancients did not fall into the error of biological racism; black skin color was not a sign of inferiority; Greeks and Romans did not establish color as an obstacle to integration in society; and ancient society was one that "for all its faults and failures never made color the basis for judging a man." |
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"That's interesting, I never knew that. I assumed it was an American derivative of some kind.
Still not sure why the 'Black' label was used
Possibly because the Romans preferred Nubian slaves and they were the blackest. But I'm guessing.
Maybe that's true. I somehow forget that the Romans or Greeks will have something to do with it.
The Romans used slaves of all races, not just Black as many history books would have you believe. They enslaved, Teachers, Builders, General labour and anyone that would be an asset to building their empire. They had black Emperors, like Septimus Serverus and also had black soldiers and mercenaries.
Quite frankly, The Roman Empire had to be the biggest equal opportunities employer of that time.
"
Consider the career of Lucius Quietus.
Quietus was originally a Moorish prince, whose father & tribe were granted citizenship by Claudius for help maintaining the notorious Mauritanian frontier. Lucius served as an auxiliary cavalry officer, recruiting soldiers from the free tribes of Africa to the Roman army, and was rewarded with equestrian rank by Domitian.
Under the principate of Trajan, Lucius’ star rose further still and he was appointed overall cavalry commander during that emperor’s Dacian campaign (you can still see his bareheaded Berbers on Trajan’s column).
Subsequently, Quietus was made a senator, then governor of Judea. On Trajan’s paralysis & death from a stroke in AD117, Quietus was even tipped by some to be the army’s preferred candidate for princeps.
Certainly the start of Hadrian’s rule was stained by rounding up and executing four potential opponents – distinguished soldiers & statesmen of Trajan’s reign, including Quietus. His Moorish cavalry were massacred to a man to assure Quietus’ execution and Hadrian’s smooth path to power.
While Quietus paid the ultimate price for being popular and exceptional general, it is interesting that he was considered emperor material, in spite of his background.
(see R. Lambert Beloved and God – the story of Hadrian and Antinous, Weidenfeld & Nicholson 1984, scramble to power pp. 32-5, Quietus, pp. 34-5) |
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"Possibly because the Romans preferred Nubian slaves and they were the blackest. But I'm guessing.
^ This statement has no basis in fact"
That's why I said 'possibly' and 'I'm guessing'. Surely that's an indication I knew it was not a fact? |
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"Possibly because the Romans preferred Nubian slaves and they were the blackest. But I'm guessing.
^ This statement has no basis in fact
The eminent Harvard classicist, Frank Snowdon, whose publications include Blacks in Antiquity (1970) wrote:
"nothing comparable to the virulent color prejudice of modern times existed in the ancient world. This is the view of most scholars who have examined the evidence and who have come to conclusions such as these: the ancients did not fall into the error of biological racism; black skin color was not a sign of inferiority; Greeks and Romans did not establish color as an obstacle to integration in society; and ancient society was one that "for all its faults and failures never made color the basis for judging a man." "
But describing someone as black is not in itself a judgement anyway - the Romans could refer to someone with dark skin as being black without it having any derogatory meaning.
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I thought black was the appropriate term?
What tickles me is the white supremacists banging on about white power and being pure and shit when it's the standing theory modern man came from Africa, meaning black African people are closer to being "pure" homo sapiens than any other ethnicity 
Just to redneck it though... I aint no homo sapien I'm a hetero sapien  |
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"
Just a light hearted thought for your Thursday"
Well am gonna go with a light hearted comment as each time the word 'black' or 'race' is mentioned the word 'racism' has to follow 
So my skin is a light shade of brown or you can say cappuccino or gingerbread.
Love gingerbread
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"I thought black was the appropriate term?
What tickles me is the white supremacists banging on about white power and being pure and shit when it's the standing theory modern man came from Africa, meaning black African people are closer to being "pure" homo sapiens than any other ethnicity
Just to redneck it though... I aint no
homo sapien I'm a hetero sapien "
having looked at some lovely ladies on here, I'm now a homo erectus. |
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When I hear the term coloured it simply makes me think of a coloured horse - ie black/brown and white. Same with a black horse - though there are no white ones, only greys lol.
None of these terms are intrinsicly judgemental in my eyes, it's all in the perception of the receiver. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm my view, i believe by saying Black, White, Asian, Chinese, Turkish, Mixed-Raced, I see it as more general terms that define us by how we look but at the same time not seem soo awkward. For example, I would find it more of a offence if someone called me "brown" or "negro" as these words have a clearer alienation of a race then the general term "Black".
Don't get me wrong, I not one to cry out racist after every little thing said by people of other races, just when it's plainly obvious. |
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"Possibly because the Romans preferred Nubian slaves and they were the blackest. But I'm guessing.
^ This statement has no basis in fact
The eminent Harvard classicist, Frank Snowdon, whose publications include Blacks in Antiquity (1970) wrote:
"nothing comparable to the virulent color prejudice of modern times existed in the ancient world. This is the view of most scholars who have examined the evidence and who have come to conclusions such as these: the ancients did not fall into the error of biological racism; black skin color was not a sign of inferiority; Greeks and Romans did not establish color as an obstacle to integration in society; and ancient society was one that "for all its faults and failures never made color the basis for judging a man."
But describing someone as black is not in itself a judgement anyway - the Romans could refer to someone with dark skin as being black without it having any derogatory meaning.
"
Totally.
While, for example, there was well-attested friction between the ancient Greeks and Jews of Alexandria (latterly labelled anti-Semitism), it is fair to point out that the Greeks believed that the Jews were a branch of the Egyptian people who are not Semitic.
Even Benjamin Isaac’s masterly study of ancient race relations, The Invention of Racism in Classical Antiquity, cannot escape ill-defined notions of race held by the ancients and, despite the provocative title, it was almost disappointing to see, even before finishing the dust-jacket, that the eye-catching word ‘racism’ has been softened to ‘proto-racism’, that is, racism without its modern pseudo-scientific component, and the identification of elements of ‘proto-racism’ becomes the principal goal of that work from that point forward. |
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"
Just a light hearted thought for your Thursday
Well am gonna go with a light hearted comment as each time the word 'black' or 'race' is mentioned the word 'racism' has to follow
So my skin is a light shade of brown or you can say cappuccino or gingerbread.
Love gingerbread
"
Make that cappuccino and coffee cake on the side and you got yourself one interested party |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"***This will be brief***
In short, the term black and it's identity is nothing but to simplify race classification by some of the earlier travellers. This same type of classification goes for White people too. If you look at the works of Christoph Meiner, he breaks down the classification groups, according to him."
I will search him out |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"As far as I know. Using the term black for black people originated in the USA during the period of slavery. It was brought on to describe the Kids of slaves and slavers so they would be known as Black instead of white no matter how light or dark the pigmentation of the skin. Could be wrong but that's what I've been told as a kid in school.
Now a racist isn't only predominantly a black issue as u seem to think. We aren't the ones who sit in a room and decide that using all these terms are offensive. I admit, alot of black people cry racism for shit reasons, but they won't have to if other folk didn't walk about on egg shells around them.
Not an argument. Just trying to explain as best as I can. "
sounds like a pint in the pub is needed to discuss further |
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" For example, I would find it more of a offence if someone called me "brown".... as these words have a clearer alienation of a race then the general term "Black".
."
And that is when it comes down to individuals. I have no problem being called 'brown'.
Actually I don't think I have a problem being called anything, it all comes down to context.
People walk on egg shells about terms. If someone doesn't like a term you are using, they will tell you!
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"
Just a light hearted thought for your Thursday
Well am gonna go with a light hearted comment as each time the word 'black' or 'race' is mentioned the word 'racism' has to follow
So my skin is a light shade of brown or you can say cappuccino or gingerbread.
Love gingerbread
Make that cappuccino and coffee cake on the side and you got yourself one interested party "
|
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
Just a light hearted thought for your Thursday
Well am gonna go with a light hearted comment as each time the word 'black' or 'race' is mentioned the word 'racism' has to follow
So my skin is a light shade of brown or you can say cappuccino or gingerbread.
Love gingerbread
"
I do love gingerbread |
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"
Just a light hearted thought for your Thursday
Well am gonna go with a light hearted comment as each time the word 'black' or 'race' is mentioned the word 'racism' has to follow
So my skin is a light shade of brown or you can say cappuccino or gingerbread.
Love gingerbread
I do love gingerbread"
Am gonna start baking then lol  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I'm my view, i believe by saying Black, White, Asian, Chinese, Turkish, Mixed-Raced, I see it as more general terms that define us by how we look but at the same time not seem soo awkward. For example, I would find it more of a offence if someone called me "brown" or "negro" as these words have a clearer alienation of a race then the general term "Black".
Don't get me wrong, I not one to cry out racist after every little thing said by people of other races, just when it's plainly obvious."
My original thought is a good one to bring in here I think. Why has the term Black, as a description of race, superseded the face that your skin is brown.
Maybe I'm being to literal |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
Just a light hearted thought for your Thursday
Well am gonna go with a light hearted comment as each time the word 'black' or 'race' is mentioned the word 'racism' has to follow
So my skin is a light shade of brown or you can say cappuccino or gingerbread.
Love gingerbread
I do love gingerbread
Am gonna start baking then lol "
I'm only my way |
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By *redrobCouple (MM)
over a year ago
Kilmarnock |
"
Just a light hearted thought for your Thursday
Well am gonna go with a light hearted comment as each time the word 'black' or 'race' is mentioned the word 'racism' has to follow
So my skin is a light shade of brown or you can say cappuccino or gingerbread.
Love gingerbread
Make that cappuccino and coffee cake on the side and you got yourself one interested party
"
Actually, this comment about coffee reminded me of one of our trips to Wales. Stopped off at the services for a break and went got a coffee. Robbie ordered a "black coffee" and everyone froze and stayed from him to me. Never knew until then the term wasn't allowed. Silly in my eyes.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
Just a light hearted thought for your Thursday
Well am gonna go with a light hearted comment as each time the word 'black' or 'race' is mentioned the word 'racism' has to follow
So my skin is a light shade of brown or you can say cappuccino or gingerbread.
Love gingerbread
Make that cappuccino and coffee cake on the side and you got yourself one interested party
Actually, this comment about coffee reminded me of one of our trips to Wales. Stopped off at the services for a break and went got a coffee. Robbie ordered a "black coffee" and everyone froze and stayed from him to me. Never knew until then the term wasn't allowed. Silly in my eyes. "
The world has gone mad lol |
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"
Just a light hearted thought for your Thursday
Well am gonna go with a light hearted comment as each time the word 'black' or 'race' is mentioned the word 'racism' has to follow
So my skin is a light shade of brown or you can say cappuccino or gingerbread.
Love gingerbread
Make that cappuccino and coffee cake on the side and you got yourself one interested party
Actually, this comment about coffee reminded me of one of our trips to Wales. Stopped off at the services for a break and went got a coffee. Robbie ordered a "black coffee" and everyone froze and stayed from him to me. Never knew until then the term wasn't allowed. Silly in my eyes. "
Absolutely |
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"The same reason white get white? You could also say is it racist to say some one is Lilly livered? Or a white flag for cowardice of surrender? White feather?
Or is racism just a white problem?"
i have some pink lillies.. |
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