FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Diplomacy and Force
Diplomacy and Force
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
It came up during the fox hunting discussion yesterday, the implication that those who seek to solve problems through force, ie aggression, violence and war, are simple minded idiots. I also regularly read on here opinions like 'real men don't need to use their fists/I'm above fighting' and such like.
My question is, do you believe that force is a primitive and outdated way to fix problems, a leftover from our animal days that only continues to be used by the simple minded and stupid, and diplomacy and negotiation is always superior, or are there some people in the world who simply cannot be reasoned with, and violence is the only effective means of dealing with them? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago
near Glasgow |
Depends on the situation, but I believe there's still a place for 'gunboat diplomacy'. Simply because there's some people/situations who/which don't/won't enter into meaningful discussion and negotiation.
I don't mean to get into party politics, but if the Argies had invaded the Falklands during the PMship of any of Maggie's successors, we'd still be asking them nicely to leave. And currently, I don't think there's any way that civilised 'powers that be' would be able to discuss and negotiate with Islamic extremists.
Just my opinion. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It came up during the fox hunting discussion yesterday, the implication that those who seek to solve problems through force, ie aggression, violence and war, are simple minded idiots. I also regularly read on here opinions like 'real men don't need to use their fists/I'm above fighting' and such like.
My question is, do you believe that force is a primitive and outdated way to fix problems, a leftover from our animal days that only continues to be used by the simple minded and stupid, and diplomacy and negotiation is always superior, or are there some people in the world who simply cannot be reasoned with, and violence is the only effective means of dealing with them?"
I think it's outdated and primitive.
If you punch someone, they'll just learn not to get caught next time.
If you teach them something new, they'll change their habits. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"My question is, do you believe that force is a primitive and outdated way to fix problems, a leftover from our animal days that only continues to be used by the simple minded and stupid, and diplomacy and negotiation is always superior, or are there some people in the world who simply cannot be reasoned with, and violence is the only effective means of dealing with them?"
Largely yes. I don't think violence / force should ever be the answer, but unfortunately, if dealing with those whose only language is force / violence, then that is the only option available.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It came up during the fox hunting discussion yesterday, the implication that those who seek to solve problems through force, ie aggression, violence and war, are simple minded idiots. I also regularly read on here opinions like 'real men don't need to use their fists/I'm above fighting' and such like.
My question is, do you believe that force is a primitive and outdated way to fix problems, a leftover from our animal days that only continues to be used by the simple minded and stupid, and diplomacy and negotiation is always superior, or are there some people in the world who simply cannot be reasoned with, and violence is the only effective means of dealing with them?
I think it's outdated and primitive.
If you punch someone, they'll just learn not to get caught next time.
If you teach them something new, they'll change their habits."
But if you punch them hard enough they will learn not to mess with you again.
Unfortunately it's against the law these days. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Violence is often used as a vehicle to be taken seriously by those who lack confidence or esteem, or the intelligence to understand there are options that allow better results for all concerned.
That said, violence is sometimes important to succeed, massive respect for armed forces etc, who sign up for country, not another persons decisions a lot of the time.
Anyone disagreeing will get a severe ticking off, no violence  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
weirdly it seems aggressiveness can only be seen as a physical attribute to many...yet we know there are many who use psychological aggressiveness to get what they want.
so it equates physical are low in IQ,and psychological are higher in IQ...
and for this and a few reasons thats why I think IQ as a measure of a person is a pile of pish. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"weirdly it seems aggressiveness can only be seen as a physical attribute to many...yet we know there are many who use psychological aggressiveness to get what they want.
so it equates physical are low in IQ,and psychological are higher in IQ...
and for this and a few reasons thats why I think IQ as a measure of a person is a pile of pish. "
Agreed ! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
To say violence will never be used is really setting yourself up for being the victim, not saying it shouldn't be avoided, just keep the option open.
Unfortunately there are people out there who understand little else or simply love it, these psychos really need locking up, once revealed.
A bit like war if it has to be done, make it short, hit them hard, make them regret ever starting it and make them not to want it again. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
we havnt evolved at all.
Violence as far as can be traced back has been used to control and assert a delusional imagined authority over others.
Violence is still the preferred method of governments but its not ok for the general public. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
But force comes in many different shapes yeah.
Violence is one form, the other is 'authority'.
Bending people to your will, when they are against the idea - will never go away.
That's why we have armed forces/police/prisons/traffic wardens /customs/doms lol |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"weirdly it seems aggressiveness can only be seen as a physical attribute to many...yet we know there are many who use psychological aggressiveness to get what they want.
so it equates physical are low in IQ,and psychological are higher in IQ...
and for this and a few reasons thats why I think IQ as a measure of a person is a pile of pish. "
Quite right, the organisers of the massacres in Nazi Germany some were highly intelligent, Reinhard Heydrich for one.
Himmler said that once the civilised mind thinks its time to use brutality then there can be no limit to its intensity, and much as its pains me to say it, there is a ring of truth to it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
When I worked in psychy wards(a good number of years), there were textbook responses that should be adhered to in learning how to control a challenging situation situation with reasonable force.
Sometimes you have to match the challenging situation by a level of assertiveness that is aggressive..otherwise you lose control of the situation. In most cases it will earn you respect and hopefully stop future reocurrences.
I call it personality matching.
People have to learn their behaviour has consequences, and if its stamped out quickly and effectively it should stop things escalating.Mollycuddling bad behaviour never helps anyone.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But force comes in many different shapes yeah.
Violence is one form, the other is 'authority'.
Bending people to your will, when they are against the idea - will never go away.
That's why we have armed forces/police/prisons/traffic wardens /customs/doms lol"
sorry but violence is the form used. when an imagined authority is assumed and someone doesnt recognise that authority or feels that authority is being abused then violence is used to subjugate. Basically bullying. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It came up during the fox hunting discussion yesterday, the implication that those who seek to solve problems through force, ie aggression, violence and war, are simple minded idiots. I also regularly read on here opinions like 'real men don't need to use their fists/I'm above fighting' and such like.
My question is, do you believe that force is a primitive and outdated way to fix problems, a leftover from our animal days that only continues to be used by the simple minded and stupid, and diplomacy and negotiation is always superior, or are there some people in the world who simply cannot be reasoned with, and violence is the only effective means of dealing with them?
I think it's outdated and primitive.
If you punch someone, they'll just learn not to get caught next time.
If you teach them something new, they'll change their habits.
But if you punch them hard enough they will learn not to mess with you again.
Unfortunately it's against the law these days. "
They'll just learn to mess with you better next time.
My Dad used to get the cane routinely at school. Getting the cane never taught him not to get the cane. It just taught him to do something that was more naughty so that the punishment was 'worth it'. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Depends how stupid your 'opponent' is. You can persuade stupid people you're right fairly easily, intelligent people will try and work out if you're right or not, stubborn people won't think at all.
But force should always be the last resort. It's basically saying you've given up making your point and can't argue it any more so have to force it.
Although sometimes forcing things also shows intolerance, and this can be necessary too. Depends on the situation and what result you want. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It came up during the fox hunting discussion yesterday, the implication that those who seek to solve problems through force, ie aggression, violence and war, are simple minded idiots. I also regularly read on here opinions like 'real men don't need to use their fists/I'm above fighting' and such like.
My question is, do you believe that force is a primitive and outdated way to fix problems, a leftover from our animal days that only continues to be used by the simple minded and stupid, and diplomacy and negotiation is always superior, or are there some people in the world who simply cannot be reasoned with, and violence is the only effective means of dealing with them?
I think it's outdated and primitive.
If you punch someone, they'll just learn not to get caught next time.
If you teach them something new, they'll change their habits.
But if you punch them hard enough they will learn not to mess with you again.
Unfortunately it's against the law these days.
They'll just learn to mess with you better next time.
My Dad used to get the cane routinely at school. Getting the cane never taught him not to get the cane. It just taught him to do something that was more naughty so that the punishment was 'worth it'."
I got bullied in school by two boys for three years.one day I punched one of them so hard in the face that I broke his nose.
I never got bullied again.
Violence can work in your favour. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *hortieWoman
over a year ago
Northampton |
"
My question is, do you believe that force is a primitive and outdated way to fix problems, a leftover from our animal days that only continues to be used by the simple minded and stupid, and diplomacy and negotiation is always superior, or are there some people in the world who simply cannot be reasoned with, and violence is the only effective means of dealing with them?"
No. Now, wheres my hammer....
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Chris Kyle had a good saying.
"my mother was wrong. Violence always works in conflict".
Soldier to soldier no problems there.
Do not like violence on our streets or near our youth of today.
Rip Chris reorg bro |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I would cut off all communication they have so they loose control of the troops. Destroy their supply routes. Isolate them in locations. Prevent food and water in until they are dehidrated and then sent in food and water for hostiges . The water will be laced with lsd guarantee the isis troops will keep the only water for them selfs. Give them a couple of hours and walk in and capture them without a shot being fired.
Just 1 idea what would you do. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It came up during the fox hunting discussion yesterday, the implication that those who seek to solve problems through force, ie aggression, violence and war, are simple minded idiots. I also regularly read on here opinions like 'real men don't need to use their fists/I'm above fighting' and such like.
My question is, do you believe that force is a primitive and outdated way to fix problems, a leftover from our animal days that only continues to be used by the simple minded and stupid, and diplomacy and negotiation is always superior, or are there some people in the world who simply cannot be reasoned with, and violence is the only effective means of dealing with them?
I think it's outdated and primitive.
If you punch someone, they'll just learn not to get caught next time.
If you teach them something new, they'll change their habits.
But if you punch them hard enough they will learn not to mess with you again.
Unfortunately it's against the law these days. "
No they just learn to punch you first or to bring their mates to hold you down.
Violence begets violence. An eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I think what's really primitive and barbaric is cruel combative sports - boxing, UFC, MMA...hurting others till they bleed while others cheers around you.
How the spectators urge the combatants to fight each other and beat each other and call it entertainment and sports. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Sometimes diplomacy only gets you so far before you end up having to take action.
Like the poster above who was bullied for 3yrs or when dealing with the likes of ISIS where there can be no diplomacy. Sometimes violence is the only 'language' some adversaries understand. In those instances you often have to use exceptional violence to end a conflict. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
