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alcohol free pubs?!
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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..what ever happened to that idea.
there was going to be funding available a few years ago to change some of the pubs that had been closed down into non-alcoholic pubs aimed at giving the 13-18 age bracket somewhere to go and taking them of the street.
it would offer the same facilities as a pub, with games, food and drink....just no alcohol.
i thought it was a great idea...it just seems to have disappeared
anyone seen any aboot? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"..what ever happened to that idea.
there was going to be funding available a few years ago to change some of the pubs that had been closed down into non-alcoholic pubs aimed at giving the 13-18 age bracket somewhere to go and taking them of the street.
it would offer the same facilities as a pub, with games, food and drink....just no alcohol.
i thought it was a great idea...it just seems to have disappeared
anyone seen any aboot?"
I would totally support the idea, especially when I see the casualties of a bottle of vodka before they start going out on a Friday night... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"in your dreams. they knock em down and build stuff on em. Peeps just want to make money these days, community does not matter anymore."
Community matters if you make it matter. Many pubs in Glasgow can't be knocked down because they're part of the fabric of the building.
Funding would be a serious challenge but perhaps there'd be a way of using brewery profits fed back to street level to support a pilot and maybe not just into alcohol-free bars.
Might there be a place for pubs where only low strength alcohol was served? I don't mean the alcohol free pish of former years but 3-4% ale and lager but no spirits in an attempt to encourage family use and the kind of education into sensible drinking which European cafe society does so well and Scotland does so badly. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Whatever next...?
Religion free Churches..?
Book Free librarys ?
Meat Free restaurants ?
Women Free Bars ?
Uniform Free Fridays...?
Has the world gone Mad..?
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"in your dreams. they knock em down and build stuff on em. Peeps just want to make money these days, community does not matter anymore.
Community matters if you make it matter. Many pubs in Glasgow can't be knocked down because they're part of the fabric of the building.
Funding would be a serious challenge but perhaps there'd be a way of using brewery profits fed back to street level to support a pilot and maybe not just into alcohol-free bars.
Might there be a place for pubs where only low strength alcohol was served? I don't mean the alcohol free pish of former years but 3-4% ale and lager but no spirits in an attempt to encourage family use and the kind of education into sensible drinking which European cafe society does so well and Scotland does so badly."
I wish too x |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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i think there's a gaping big hole in the market!
i really thought this would have taken off.
kids in that age bracket have money to spend.
i work with bands as a booking agent and we often plug at venues to reduce the age limit to 14+ as this will treble the door numbers....at least.
why haven't breweries grasped this. there's thousands of pubs closing down |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"in your dreams. they knock em down and build stuff on em. Peeps just want to make money these days, community does not matter anymore.
Community matters if you make it matter. Many pubs in Glasgow can't be knocked down because they're part of the fabric of the building.
Funding would be a serious challenge but perhaps there'd be a way of using brewery profits fed back to street level to support a pilot and maybe not just into alcohol-free bars.
Might there be a place for pubs where only low strength alcohol was served? I don't mean the alcohol free pish of former years but 3-4% ale and lager but no spirits in an attempt to encourage family use and the kind of education into sensible drinking which European cafe society does so well and Scotland does so badly."
I think we do slightly better on the continent in terms of juvenile alcohol abuse, however... the trend is worsening and A& E wards are these days also seeing comatosed youngsters.Having said that, youngsters are encouraged to drink sensibly by not making alcohol a complete taboo.
In terms of community projects - I wholeheartedly agree with you - it is about education and support, even when things do not go well immediately. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Whatever next...?
Religion free Churches..?
Book Free librarys ?
Meat Free restaurants ?
Women Free Bars ?
Uniform Free Fridays...?
Has the world gone Mad..?
"
naaaa meat-free butchers |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"in your dreams. they knock em down and build stuff on em. Peeps just want to make money these days, community does not matter anymore.
Community matters if you make it matter. Many pubs in Glasgow can't be knocked down because they're part of the fabric of the building.
Funding would be a serious challenge but perhaps there'd be a way of using brewery profits fed back to street level to support a pilot and maybe not just into alcohol-free bars.
Might there be a place for pubs where only low strength alcohol was served? I don't mean the alcohol free pish of former years but 3-4% ale and lager but no spirits in an attempt to encourage family use and the kind of education into sensible drinking which European cafe society does so well and Scotland does so badly.
I think we do slightly better on the continent in terms of juvenile alcohol abuse, however... the trend is worsening and A& E wards are these days also seeing comatosed youngsters.Having said that, youngsters are encouraged to drink sensibly by not making alcohol a complete taboo.
In terms of community projects - I wholeheartedly agree with you - it is about education and support, even when things do not go well immediately."
This could probably get some support under the so called "big society" but there is a lot of work to be done in redevloping the idea of community co-operatives if it is to work. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"................
why haven't breweries grasped this. there's thousands of pubs closing down"
I suspect the breweries and pubco's are aware there's only a certain amount of drinking money available and, if pub A is shut, the punters will move to pub B.
Over the part the available dosh will continue to be shared around them at reduced cost (fewer overheads). |
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By *ig badMan
over a year ago
Up North :-) |
"..what ever happened to that idea.
there was going to be funding available a few years ago to change some of the pubs that had been closed down into non-alcoholic pubs aimed at giving the 13-18 age bracket somewhere to go and taking them of the street.
it would offer the same facilities as a pub, with games, food and drink....just no alcohol.
i thought it was a great idea...it just seems to have disappeared
anyone seen any aboot?"
I kind of thought that's what Costa's and Starbucks essentially are?
A pub without beer is a bit like vegetarian bacon innit?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I thought thats what coffee shops and internet cafes are for. What ever happened to the good old fashioned youth clubs bring them back but more relevant to todays kids and needs. |
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On a slightly more serious note… a few questions which popped up in my mind…
What are community centres? Are they not a bit like pubs with no booze… well the ones around here (near me) are. The people who work in them are checked out. The centres are used for many purposes, not just one section of the community.
So, how do these no booze pubs differ from community centres, youth projects/centres and the other local government funded activities aimed at giving teens somewhere to go, something to do and some guidance on life issues.
Who will be able to open/manage/run one of these places?
Which teens do they want to get off of the street? I would guess the gangs. What would happen once a gang established one of these no booze pubs as it’s HQ?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I thought thats what coffee shops and internet cafes are for. What ever happened to the good old fashioned youth clubs bring them back but more relevant to todays kids and needs."
don't really think you can compare the ambiance in an internet cafe or coffee shop with that of the pub. pubs are much more chilled, coffee shops always have a kind of "I'm not stopping" feel about them, don't you think? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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True but just thinking maybe internet cafes aimed at teenagers could work because they all chat through facebook and texts lol. And most nightclubs run under 18 nights. People moan about kids hanging about on street corners but its just because they got no where else to go. Any other ideas. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wouldn't want to see anywhere run under private ownership for young people to hang-out in."
But they all need somewhere safe to go. Normally at the weekend especially in winter mine is a open house I have 13year old and they all tend to rally round mine including sleep overs as I dont let her out after dark as its not safe would be good to have a youth club that they could all go too. |
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"I wouldn't want to see anywhere run under private ownership for young people to hang-out in.
But they all need somewhere safe to go...."
Exactly my point.
Do you know of any pubs where drugs are sold and if you know it's damn sure the owner does.... coz I can name a few.
What motives might some individuals have to open a booze free pub (or whatever)? We all know teens can be more trouble than they are worth when gathered together. So who would benefit from being able to befriend a few of the outsiders... build a trusting relationship with them... be the only one who understands them.... hmmmmmm? |
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"in your dreams. they knock em down and build stuff on em. Peeps just want to make money these days, community does not matter anymore.
Community matters if you make it matter. Many pubs in Glasgow can't be knocked down because they're part of the fabric of the building.
Funding would be a serious challenge but perhaps there'd be a way of using brewery profits fed back to street level to support a pilot and maybe not just into alcohol-free bars.
Might there be a place for pubs where only low strength alcohol was served? I don't mean the alcohol free pish of former years but 3-4% ale and lager but no spirits in an attempt to encourage family use and the kind of education into sensible drinking which European cafe society does so well and Scotland does so badly."
Pubs that dont sell spirits is not a new idea. In the 1820's pubs were given 'beer house' licence's that allowed them to sell beer but no spirits. This was done to try and combat the widespread consumption of cheap gin at the time and the social problems it was causing. (There was one still trading in Pimlico, London in the 1990's but not sure if its still going now) I agree with you that this could be a good idea to educate teenagers into alternatives to the spirits and shots style of drinking alcohol that seems to predominate in this age group. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"in your dreams. they knock em down and build stuff on em. Peeps just want to make money these days, community does not matter anymore.
Community matters if you make it matter. Many pubs in Glasgow can't be knocked down because they're part of the fabric of the building.
Funding would be a serious challenge but perhaps there'd be a way of using brewery profits fed back to street level to support a pilot and maybe not just into alcohol-free bars.
Might there be a place for pubs where only low strength alcohol was served? I don't mean the alcohol free pish of former years but 3-4% ale and lager but no spirits in an attempt to encourage family use and the kind of education into sensible drinking which European cafe society does so well and Scotland does so badly.
Pubs that dont sell spirits is not a new idea. In the 1820's pubs were given 'beer house' licence's that allowed them to sell beer but no spirits. This was done to try and combat the widespread consumption of cheap gin at the time and the social problems it was causing. (There was one still trading in Pimlico, London in the 1990's but not sure if its still going now) I agree with you that this could be a good idea to educate teenagers into alternatives to the spirits and shots style of drinking alcohol that seems to predominate in this age group. "
used to be a pub near brixton prison that only had a beer license until the late 70's. it never had a ladies toilet either,the logic being that if they only sold beer that women wouldn't go in there. and the prison wardens who used the pub seemed to quite like the idea. it also had the countries smallest snug. one bloke would take his st bernard dog in there. full up!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wouldn't want to see anywhere run under private ownership for young people to hang-out in."
Don't such places exist already?
I don't know about where you are but Glasgow has a number of 'unders' - disco type venues for under 18s on early Saturday evenings. |
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"I wouldn't want to see anywhere run under private ownership for young people to hang-out in.
Don't such places exist already?
I don't know about where you are but Glasgow has a number of 'unders' - disco type venues for under 18s on early Saturday evenings."
Yes they do - but they tend not to be the only purpose of the venue... more about making a bit of extra dosh when they don't have other trade. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wouldn't want to see anywhere run under private ownership for young people to hang-out in.
But they all need somewhere safe to go. Normally at the weekend especially in winter mine is a open house I have 13year old and they all tend to rally round mine including sleep overs as I dont let her out after dark as its not safe would be good to have a youth club that they could all go too."
Thats all very well but if you want to see somewhere for them to go why don't you organise it yourself? I've previously run a youth group for age 9-14's and those that scoff should give it a go. Polo is right that it is impossible in today's society to have a privately owned establishment purely for under 16's. Nobody would take that on as it leaves them wide open to just about every rule break in the book! Children and juvenilles under the age of 16 (18 if considered vulnerable) require any charge to be fully CRB checked and a ratio of adults/children. Plus insurance. Plus consent forms. Plus activities that cost. Not at all easy! Then with the added hassle of parents dumping them and using the service as a free babysitter...a joy all round!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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where would the funding come from? one would assume maybe it would be down to the local councils.not this one.bexley do very litle for teenagers.the council have their own little enclave in bexleyheath that they spend money on. it seems that everyone else can go fuck 'emselves. the kids just seem to be barely tolerated, more pcso's get put on the street to watch them and the whole place erupts now and then.god alone knows what its like in inner cities |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wouldn't want to see anywhere run under private ownership for young people to hang-out in.
Don't such places exist already?
I don't know about where you are but Glasgow has a number of 'unders' - disco type venues for under 18s on early Saturday evenings.
Yes they do - but they tend not to be the only purpose of the venue... more about making a bit of extra dosh when they don't have other trade."
Agreed but maybe the 'teenage hang-out' wouldn't have to be the only function of the community pub
Things like pensioners' lunch clubs, afternoon tea sessions and acting as a base for other activities spring to mind. There's bound to be more. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"where would the funding come from? one would assume maybe it would be down to the local councils.not this one.bexley do very litle for teenagers............"
I mentioned last night about breweries perhaps being able to support this as a way of demonstrating their commitment to responsible drinking.
There are other alcohol based charities (drinkaware/ Scottish Council on Alcohol etc) and statutory and charitable health promotion bodies which might be persuaded to help fund a pilot, just to see if it would work. We might even get the guys who make Buckfast to chip in. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"where would the funding come from? one would assume maybe it would be down to the local councils.not this one.bexley do very litle for teenagers.the council have their own little enclave in bexleyheath that they spend money on. it seems that everyone else can go fuck 'emselves. the kids just seem to be barely tolerated, more pcso's get put on the street to watch them and the whole place erupts now and then.god alone knows what its like in inner cities "
You're right, coucil's won't fund them. A local group that I know of asked the council for funding but because they were a Christian organisation the council said they would fund it if they removed the cross symbol from their letterheads. They said no. Council refused funding.
Grants are available through private organisations but they still don't cover half of what you need and you have to have a really strong case to get anything. Sad but true. |
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"I wouldn't want to see anywhere run under private ownership for young people to hang-out in.
Don't such places exist already?
I don't know about where you are but Glasgow has a number of 'unders' - disco type venues for under 18s on early Saturday evenings.
Yes they do - but they tend not to be the only purpose of the venue... more about making a bit of extra dosh when they don't have other trade.
Agreed but maybe the 'teenage hang-out' wouldn't have to be the only function of the community pub
Things like pensioners' lunch clubs, afternoon tea sessions and acting as a base for other activities spring to mind. There's bound to be more."
Isn't that back to being a community centre? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wouldn't want to see anywhere run under private ownership for young people to hang-out in.
Don't such places exist already?
I don't know about where you are but Glasgow has a number of 'unders' - disco type venues for under 18s on early Saturday evenings.
Yes they do - but they tend not to be the only purpose of the venue... more about making a bit of extra dosh when they don't have other trade.
Agreed but maybe the 'teenage hang-out' wouldn't have to be the only function of the community pub
Things like pensioners' lunch clubs, afternoon tea sessions and acting as a base for other activities spring to mind. There's bound to be more.
Isn't that back to being a community centre?"
You manage to make community centre sound like a bad thing 
There are a lot of communities without a community centre or hub of any sort. Some never had one. Some are old and unsafe for use - one I know of has asbestos all over the place.
Some communities use the local church a few hours a day or a few days a week.
Others use the local school outwith the 9-4 spell. Somewhere that was open 10-10 with regular activities + the option to 'drop-in' + a licence for those from whom alcohol is important would probably be well supported.
It might even be the location which allowed a post office or shop to remain in the area when they'd struggle to survive on their own.
I take the point about CRB checks and Disclosure but, in the coming years, I reckon there's going to be plenty of 'safe' people looking for things to do to fill up their unemployed hours. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i think there's a gaping big hole in the market!
i really thought this would have taken off.
kids in that age bracket have money to spend.
i work with bands as a booking agent and we often plug at venues to reduce the age limit to 14+ as this will treble the door numbers....at least.
why haven't breweries grasped this. there's thousands of pubs closing down"
Have you tried talking to the breweries? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"where would the funding come from? one would assume maybe it would be down to the local councils.not this one.bexley do very litle for teenagers............
I mentioned last night about breweries perhaps being able to support this as a way of demonstrating their commitment to responsible drinking.
There are other alcohol based charities (drinkaware/ Scottish Council on Alcohol etc) and statutory and charitable health promotion bodies which might be persuaded to help fund a pilot, just to see if it would work. We might even get the guys who make Buckfast to chip in."
I can only really comment on the south east and london but at a time when punch taverns and enterprise inns are selling loads of their unprofitable pubs i can't see them buying into it. its simply the fact that the land the pub is sitting on is too valuable. I come from a pub background and the pubs i both lived in abnd drank in in south east london have all gone. and they've all got dwellings on them.why take something that's losing money and turn it into something useful and worthy when its sitting on £500,000 of real estate. my nan bought her first pub in 1953 and my mum and dad left theirs in 1989. its slightly off topic but during the 70's and 80's the old breweries in the south east were swallowed up and amalgamated out of existence by the likes of punch and enterprise. these companies were run by people who had no history in or feeling for the concept of the community pub.
in london at least they presume to tell us we want 'all bar one' and the like.some of don't. as for the breweries putting money into community projects in london using property they can sell? it simply ain't gonna happen.
sorry,that was a rant |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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just as aside to that,my grandad's pub went from mann crossman and paulin thru watney mann to watney then grand met who merged with guiness to become diageo. anyone who knows that company will know they don't have a real grasp of 'community'. least of all in scotland sadly |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wouldn't want to see anywhere run under private ownership for young people to hang-out in.
But they all need somewhere safe to go. Normally at the weekend especially in winter mine is a open house I have 13year old and they all tend to rally round mine including sleep overs as I dont let her out after dark as its not safe would be good to have a youth club that they could all go too.
Thats all very well but if you want to see somewhere for them to go why don't you organise it yourself? I've previously run a youth group for age 9-14's and those that scoff should give it a go. Polo is right that it is impossible in today's society to have a privately owned establishment purely for under 16's. Nobody would take that on as it leaves them wide open to just about every rule break in the book! Children and juvenilles under the age of 16 (18 if considered vulnerable) require any charge to be fully CRB checked and a ratio of adults/children. Plus insurance. Plus consent forms. Plus activities that cost. Not at all easy! Then with the added hassle of parents dumping them and using the service as a free babysitter...a joy all round!!! "
I would as I already work in a childrens centre I have a younger daughter. I have bought it up at local council meetings but as you say no funding the teenagers are a loophole and left hanging I have spoke to local sports centre and have bought back multi sports activities for the school hols but that does'nt address the problem of evenings and it being dark at 5pm or another suggestion is contact your local community church groups they run youth clubs which are good but basic I attened there splash family fun nights once a month. |
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