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Clegg attacks Tory plans on immigration and marriage
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg today said that he would reform the immigration system by allowing workers into the country on an area by area basis to address the shortage of workers in the north while clamping down on over-saturation of migrant-workers in south-east England.
Mr Clegg said Conservative plans to introduce a cap on immigrants completely ignored parts of Britain where 'some industries were crying out for people'.
He called instead for an Australia-style area-based immigration policy, which would tie an immigrant worker to a particular part of Britain, and would not allow them to work in a more congested part of the nation.?will this work or should we stop immigration
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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that sounds very much like internment. how can you stop someone moving around the country. declaration of human rights says you can't be subject to arbitrary arrest detention or exile.
not the way forward if the government intends to try and de-radicalise certain groups surely? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think we need to stop immigration at the moment. Unemployment of our own citizens should be our priority. "
seems like a simple solution but many of the jobs immigrant workers are prepared to do for very low wages, ours are not. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg today said that he would reform the immigration system by allowing workers into the country on an area by area basis to address the shortage of workers in the north while clamping down on over-saturation of migrant-workers in south-east England.
Mr Clegg said Conservative plans to introduce a cap on immigrants completely ignored parts of Britain where 'some industries were crying out for people'.
He called instead for an Australia-style area-based immigration policy, which would tie an immigrant worker to a particular part of Britain, and would not allow them to work in a more congested part of the nation.?will this work or should we stop immigration
"
If it looks like a Daily Mail story and smeels like a Daily Mail story the chances are it's a Daily Mail story. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg today said that he would reform the immigration system by allowing workers into the country on an area by area basis to address the shortage of workers in the north while clamping down on over-saturation of migrant-workers in south-east England.
Mr Clegg said Conservative plans to introduce a cap on immigrants completely ignored parts of Britain where 'some industries were crying out for people'.
He called instead for an Australia-style area-based immigration policy, which would tie an immigrant worker to a particular part of Britain, and would not allow them to work in a more congested part of the nation.?will this work or should we stop immigration
If it looks like a Daily Mail story and smeels* like a Daily Mail story the chances are it's a Daily Mail story."
*smells |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Shall we put this article into perspective. Clegg DID make this statement, but he made in January 2010 - 4 months BEFORE the election.
I doubt very much if he is still following that particular policy with as much vigour now he's comfortably sitting in the No.2 Big Chair. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg today said that he would reform the immigration system by allowing workers into the country on an area by area basis to address the shortage of workers in the north while clamping down on over-saturation of migrant-workers in south-east England.
Mr Clegg said Conservative plans to introduce a cap on immigrants completely ignored parts of Britain where 'some industries were crying out for people'.
He called instead for an Australia-style area-based immigration policy, which would tie an immigrant worker to a particular part of Britain, and would not allow them to work in a more congested part of the nation.?will this work or should we stop immigration
"
It shows how much he knows, it's jobs we need in the North, not more immigrants after the few that there are!  
XXXX |
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You can't simply stop immigration as there are many instances where this would adversly affect critical services and food stuffs we take for granted.
The largest being the NHS, take the foreign nurses, doctors, radiologists etc. out of the employment bank then watch many hospitals grind to a halt, last year for instance over 13,000 extra migrants were employed in clinical positions in the hospitals of Britain.
The thing is we often don't appreciate this until we delve deeper into how important immigrants are to organisations like the NHS, and how much this would impact on our services if they were to stop entering the country to fill these positions.
Then there is the food basket.....take immigrants out of the farming/produce loop and watch as the fruit and vegetables on your table start to back up and rot in the fields.
Tens of thousands of seasonal migrants enter the UK every year to pick and pack these crops, the majority then go home in the winter and return in the spring to pick our food stuffs from fields that we take for granted.
So stricter controls on non EU immigrants.....yes of course, but a block?.....Can't ever happen in Britain. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Shall we put this article into perspective. Clegg DID make this statement, but he made in January 2010 - 4 months BEFORE the election.
I doubt very much if he is still following that particular policy with as much vigour now he's comfortably sitting in the No.2 Big Chair."
Cynic!  |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"You can't simply stop immigration as there are many instances where this would adversly affect critical services and food stuffs we take for granted.
The largest being the NHS, take the foreign nurses, doctors, radiologists etc. out of the employment bank then watch many hospitals grind to a halt, last year for instance over 13,000 extra migrants were employed in clinical positions in the hospitals of Britain.
The thing is we often don't appreciate this until we delve deeper into how important immigrants are to organisations like the NHS, and how much this would impact on our services if they were to stop entering the country to fill these positions.
Then there is the food basket.....take immigrants out of the farming/produce loop and watch as the fruit and vegetables on your table start to back up and rot in the fields.
Tens of thousands of seasonal migrants enter the UK every year to pick and pack these crops, the majority then go home in the winter and return in the spring to pick our food stuffs from fields that we take for granted.
So stricter controls on non EU immigrants.....yes of course, but a block?.....Can't ever happen in Britain."
thank you for making the point better than i could.... let me add another group of people to that list... Teachers 
this is why I love the "send them home" brigade... for two reasons....
1) the country would grind to a halt.....
2) certain jobs are seen as being "benneth" those in this country... hence why it is always the "foreigners" who do them..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Whilst I don't favour the 'ship them out wholemeal' policy I most certainly do favour the 'fuck up once and you are history' policy.
By that I mean: If you break one single law that would carry a fine of £100 or more, or any law deemed higher in status than that, then out you go and take your whole family with you.
Immigrants are here by priviledge, not a right to be here. If they find they don't like it, or they decide that a life of crime is much more preferable than working & contributing to our society, they they can fuck right off back to where they came from and good riddance.
Those that do join in and contribute are more than welcome to stay in my book. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Shall we put this article into perspective. Clegg DID make this statement, but he made in January 2010 - 4 months BEFORE the election.
I doubt very much if he is still following that particular policy with as much vigour now he's comfortably sitting in the No.2 Big Chair."
That, of course, is the reason he's being so understandably and comprehensively abused for his change of mind - from the safety and comfort of his ministerial Jag. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Shall we put this article into perspective. Clegg DID make this statement, but he made in January 2010 - 4 months BEFORE the election.
I doubt very much if he is still following that particular policy with as much vigour now he's comfortably sitting in the No.2 Big Chair.
That, of course, is the reason he's being so understandably and comprehensively abused for his change of mind - from the safety and comfort of his ministerial Jag."
I hope he enjoys it while he's got it as his party is heading for a bloody good hiding at the earliest possible opportunity.
People are pissed off with the Tories and that's nothing new there, but the Libs are taking the brunt of conning the electorate, specifically with the No Rise in Fees Pledge he made great show of signing in Sheffield during the election.
He must be sitting there thinking, "Why the fuck did I sign that damn thing!" |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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W&S are correct. We expect this kinds shite from the Tories and anyone who voted for them and is about to get it in the goolies has only themselves to blame.
The Fib-Dems, however, have spent years amassing political capital on the basis that they're a bit, wooly and harmless. They've blown that big time.
Just a wee aside. A tiny by election a few weeks back in the outskirts of Glasgow saw the L-Ds come last, a long way behind even the local bampot candidates.
The writing is very definitely on the wall. |
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My sentiments exactly, I don't blame Cameron and the Cons because I knew exactly what the Tories were going to do....the same as Thatcher did when she came to power, punish the working class...
But Clegg has blatantly sold out the Lib Dem vote, the vote they begged for and accepted on the basis of a specific mandate......The Lib Dem manifesto.
When the coalition implodes, as it will before the first year is out, I fully expect Clegg, Danny Alexander, and a handful of the Lib Dems to defect to the Conservatives and force By-Elections if and when they are deselected.
I said at the time of the election that the Tories should have, by any level of expectation, won a landslide victory.
The fact that they couldn't form a government without entering into a coalition even after the Deficit, Iraq, Afghanistan, Immigration etc. were taken into account showed that the people never fully forgave them for the 80's nor did they trust them in enough numbers.
With any luck by the time the coalition collapses the people will have caught on that the intent of the Tories is to punish the working class all over again....and we will be forced into another General election by 2012. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There may be some mileage in what you say Jane regarding a 2012 election, but for the life of me I cannot bring myself to vote Labour and I most certainly will not vote LibDem so that leaves on the Tories.
I do agree with the Uni rises. I didn't at first as I knew it is going to hit us hard in 5 years time when my daughter heads off to Uni but I know deep down that it is a better way of getting the kids into higher education that merit a place there.
What I strongly disagree with is election pledges being broken at an extraordinary rate by this fledgling government. I expected some opromises to be cast aside after wohever won, won. But the scale and speed of how many pledges are being brushed aside is breathtaking to the point of arrogance.
I firmly believe that as election promises are the ONLY basis by which we can decide who we want to vote for that to then break them after the election is over is tantamount to outright fraud, and those guilty of it should be held to account in the law courts. |
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the government are tying to win votes.
who would you vote for.
their policies are for only their own benefit using us as stepping stones.
I would like to walk down the street and bid every 1 good day.
Will these ppl understand me. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wait and see eh. Something needs to be put in practice though especially in this current day and age."
Have to agree some immigrants are needed in the UK, but the system needs radical reform.
ie marry a British National and they get the automatic right of abode in the UK and thier families.
If your that much in love why not go and live in that persons Country of Origin, it should not be carte blanche it should be on merits.
What is wrong with allowing immigrants in if they have a job offer like some other countries, and if those jobs were on a list of "shortages".
Asylum is another matter we have to help people get away from being threatened or in fear of thier lives but for instance a Bosnian who is in danger in Bosnia is no longer in that danger when they get to France, so then they should not be allowed in as an Asylum seeker but considered as a migrant worker. If they fly in straight from Nigeria or Bosnia etc then they can be considered for asylum. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Not only have many right (left?) thinking people never forgiven them for the Thatcher years - we never will.
"
Thatcher broke the unions and in my eyes she will always be revered for that alone. Look at the unions now, trying to flex their pathetic little muscles calling for strikes on an almost daily basis. Where were they for the last 13 years? Cowtowing to the Labour govt that gave them everything they asked for but now that particular gravy train has rolled out of the station leaving them with empty hands on the platform, they're starting to wince and whine again. Fookin unions, they exist to serve the executive and nobody else. I've never seen a poor union boss, and have never seen one give up his luxuries whilst his members are freezing their stupid asses off on a picket line.
Maggie deserves a Baronet for smashing them into the dirt. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There may be some mileage in what you say Jane regarding a 2012 election, but for the life of me I cannot bring myself to vote Labour and I most certainly will not vote LibDem so that leaves on the Tories.
............. "
That's a perfect valid point of view. I don't agree with you but accept you felt the way you did. |
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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago
central scotland |
So wishy you think the average working man/union member is stupid and should be smashed into the dirt by the obscenely super rich?
Why not go the full hog and not educate the working class and get 12 year olds to work 12 -14 hour days.
If it wasnt for past unions we would still be living like that |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So wishy you think the average working man/union member is stupid and should be smashed into the dirt by the obscenely super rich?
Why not go the full hog and not educate the working class and get 12 year olds to work 12 -14 hour days.
If it wasnt for past unions we would still be living like that "
I'm not saying unions don't have a role to play and a place in our society - but that they should know what that place is, and not try and force government policy that favours just themselves with the threat of withdrawing block votes. Which, incidentally, has lumbered the Labour party with an unlectable leader over his very electable brother. Talking about shooting oneself in the foot. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"............
I do agree with the Uni rises. I didn't at first as I knew it is going to hit us hard in 5 years time when my daughter heads off to Uni but I know deep down that it is a better way of getting the kids into higher education that merit a place there.
................. "
There we'd have to agree to disagree. Are you saying that the only kids who merit access to higher education are those who, or whose parents, can afford it?
I appreciate that, if your employment goal is to sit on the Tory front bench, that's probably the way to go about it. For the others?
I'm told that in order to register as a nurse in the UK and work in the NHS you must hold a degree or diploma in nursing. How is a lassie from an ordinary background going to be able to afford to train to be a nurse which, as most of us would agree, is the bedrock of the NHS?
Maybe we should just do away with an NHS 'free at the point of use'. Charge £10 or £20 or whatever to see a GP. That'd stop a lot of frivilous visits to your local surgery. It'd also increase the number of A&E presentations (a much more expensive procedure) only to discover there are no nurses available to look after patients there aren't beds for.
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If it wasn't for the TUC there wouldn't have been a minimum wage, there wouldn't have been a minimum income guarantee for pensioners, there wouldn't have been child tax credits, there wouldn't have been working tax credits......the simple fact is the TUC drew up the 1997 election manifesto with Labour.
It was because these promises were delivered by Labour between 1997 and 2001 that the Unions felt in un-neccesary to take industrial action.
It is the simple fact that because the coalition now seeks to dismantle these policies and laws that the Unions feel the need to look once again at industrial action.
Or should they stand idly by while the coalition destroy everything achieved over the last 13 years? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I'm not saying unions don't have a role to play and a place in our society - but that they should know what that place is, and not try and force government policy that favours just themselves with the threat of withdrawing block votes. Which, incidentally, has lumbered the Labour party with an unlectable leader over his very electable brother. Talking about shooting oneself in the foot. "
A few more months of Con-Dem mis-srule and the country will be happy to elect Ed or even Mr Ed - anything to get shot of that creepy front bottom Cameron. |
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"So wishy you think the average working man/union member is stupid and should be smashed into the dirt by the obscenely super rich?
Why not go the full hog and not educate the working class and get 12 year olds to work 12 -14 hour days.
If it wasnt for past unions we would still be living like that
I'm not saying unions don't have a role to play and a place in our society - but that they should know what that place is, and not try and force government policy that favours just themselves with the threat of withdrawing block votes. Which, incidentally, has lumbered the Labour party with an unlectable leader over his very electable brother. Talking about shooting oneself in the foot. "
Sorry Wishy but there were no block votes in the election of the Labour leader, they have been outlawed by the TUC since 2001.
All that a Union can do now is give a recommendation to their membership as regards a new Labour leader....in fact the union members of UNITE only voted Ed over David Milliband by around 8% of the votes cast....even though the leadership of UNITE recommended Ed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If it wasn't for the TUC there wouldn't have been a minimum wage, there wouldn't have been a minimum income guarantee for pensioners, there wouldn't have been child tax credits, there wouldn't have been working tax credits......the simple fact is the TUC drew up the 1997 election manifesto with Labour.
It was because these promises were delivered by Labour between 1997 and 2001 that the Unions felt in un-neccesary to take industrial action.
It is the simple fact that because the coalition now seeks to dismantle these policies and laws that the Unions feel the need to look once again at industrial action.
Or should they stand idly by while the coalition destroy everything achieved over the last 13 years?"
They, WE, won't stand idly by and allow that to happen. It's not just the achievements of the last 13 years we'll stand together to protect.
The NUS event the other day was just a pre-match warm up.
We'll sell our labour but not our souls. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"............
I'm told that in order to register as a nurse in the UK and work in the NHS you must hold a degree or diploma in nursing. How is a lassie from an ordinary background going to be able to afford to train to be a nurse which, as most of us would agree, is the bedrock of the NHS?"
How people attain their degrees isn't my problem. I don't subscribe to the ideaology that we're all in this together. We're not. I don't know you for example, I wouldn't know you if you wealked past me in the street tomorrow, and would you give me £10 if I stopped you and asked for it? No, you'd probably tell me to piss off and get a job.
So where is all this Big Community eh? Why am I obliged to pay my taxes for someone else's kid to go through University when I'm going to struggle to put my own kids through Uni?
I've said it before, if someone wants to be a nurse that badly they'll find a way to get there. If that is their calling they'll answer it one way or another. It's not my job, duty or obligation to provide the funds for people I don't know to better themselves and then sod off and buy a nice big house while I'm still in my three-bed semi. Fuck that malarky. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"in fact the union members of UNITE only voted Ed over David Milliband by around 8% of the votes cast....even though the leadership of UNITE recommended Ed."
Originally the endorsements of the big unions were expected to be split: Unison for Andy Burnham, Unite for Ed Balls and the GMB for Ed Miliband. But following a summit of union bosses all three switched to Ed Miliband.
Source: SkyNews. |
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"in fact the union members of UNITE only voted Ed over David Milliband by around 8% of the votes cast....even though the leadership of UNITE recommended Ed.
Originally the endorsements of the big unions were expected to be split: Unison for Andy Burnham, Unite for Ed Balls and the GMB for Ed Miliband. But following a summit of union bosses all three switched to Ed Miliband.
Source: SkyNews."
Endorsements are not block votes, they have been outlawed by the TUC since 2001....on the strong recommendation of the Labour Party.
Block votes are a totally different thing... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"............
I'm told that in order to register as a nurse in the UK and work in the NHS you must hold a degree or diploma in nursing. How is a lassie from an ordinary background going to be able to afford to train to be a nurse which, as most of us would agree, is the bedrock of the NHS?
How people attain their degrees isn't my problem. I don't subscribe to the ideaology that we're all in this together. We're not.........."
The trouble, for those who take that point of view, is that we ARE.
You can opt out of some stuff - send you kids to private school, pay for BUPA etc but when you need an ambulance in the middle of the night you ring 999 - not your local private hospital.
The ambulance/ police/ fireys who turn out out 'cos some numpty has driven head-on into you on a blind summit 'cos she's pished don't go through your wallet to see if they can pass the responsibilty for sweeping up your entrails to a private company.
That, in my opinion, is what makes Britain Great. I wouldn't have it any other way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"in fact the union members of UNITE only voted Ed over David Milliband by around 8% of the votes cast....even though the leadership of UNITE recommended Ed.
Originally the endorsements of the big unions were expected to be split: Unison for Andy Burnham, Unite for Ed Balls and the GMB for Ed Miliband. But following a summit of union bosses all three switched to Ed Miliband.
Source: SkyNews."
Sky News? lolololololololol.
It's the Tory press for the illiterate. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"in fact the union members of UNITE only voted Ed over David Milliband by around 8% of the votes cast....even though the leadership of UNITE recommended Ed.
Originally the endorsements of the big unions were expected to be split: Unison for Andy Burnham, Unite for Ed Balls and the GMB for Ed Miliband. But following a summit of union bosses all three switched to Ed Miliband.
Source: SkyNews.
Endorsements are not block votes, they have been outlawed by the TUC since 2001....on the strong recommendation of the Labour Party.
Block votes are a totally different thing..."
Oh come on Jane, that's just semantics. It is well known that Labour leadership ballots have a traditionally low turn out among union members and those that do vote are union activists who will use their vote they way their executive instruct them to. It's a block vote in all but name.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"in fact the union members of UNITE only voted Ed over David Milliband by around 8% of the votes cast....even though the leadership of UNITE recommended Ed.
Originally the endorsements of the big unions were expected to be split: Unison for Andy Burnham, Unite for Ed Balls and the GMB for Ed Miliband. But following a summit of union bosses all three switched to Ed Miliband.
Source: SkyNews.
Sky News? lolololololololol.
It's the Tory press for the illiterate."
Go and read the article yourself. It's just facts and figures, not someone's misinterpretation of the ballot result.
http://blogs.news.sky.com/boultonandco/Post:642ae84c-1051-4fb0-8e68-8c2076174a5e
I couldn't really give a fuck who reported it, I just needed the union support data for the discussion we're having on here so that it didn't look like I was making it up myself.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"in fact the union members of UNITE only voted Ed over David Milliband by around 8% of the votes cast....even though the leadership of UNITE recommended Ed.
Originally the endorsements of the big unions were expected to be split: Unison for Andy Burnham, Unite for Ed Balls and the GMB for Ed Miliband. But following a summit of union bosses all three switched to Ed Miliband.
Source: SkyNews.
Endorsements are not block votes, they have been outlawed by the TUC since 2001....on the strong recommendation of the Labour Party.
Block votes are a totally different thing...
Oh come on Jane, that's just semantics. It is well known that Labour leadership ballots have a traditionally low turn out among union members and those that do vote are union activists who will use their vote they way their executive instruct them to. It's a block vote in all but name.
"
It's not a block vote at all. A block vote was when Scargill or Feather held up a wee sheet of paper at conference and approved or shot down policy on that basis alone. That's long gone.
Now we (union members) have exactly the same voting rights as mainstream Labour party members - I get two votes 'cos I'm a member of both colleges. I don't entirely agree with having two votes and only ever use my Labour Party vote. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"..........
Source: SkyNews.
Sky News? lolololololololol.
It's the Tory press for the illiterate.
Go and read the article yourself. It's just facts and figures, not someone's misinterpretation of the ballot result.
http://blogs.news.sky.com/boultonandco/Post:642ae84c-1051-4fb0-8e68-8c2076174a5e
I couldn't really give a fuck who reported it, I just needed the union support data for the discussion we're having on here so that it didn't look like I was making it up myself.
"
Facts and figures are the basis of statistics and, as we know all too well, "there are lies, damn lies and statistics". |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A total of 2,747,030 ballot papers were sent out to 'Section 3: Affiliates' - trade unionists paying the political levy and members of socialist societies. Of these Unite members accounted for 1,055,074, the GMB for 554, 130 and Unison for 419,142.
Each of the big unions recorded turnout below 10%. But their endorsements were clearly worth something. In every union the endorsed candidate got the biggest share of the vote, and the bigger the union the more it contributed to the total numbers. (GMB Ed 42%, 18,000 votes; Unison Ed 34%, 9,632 votes; Unite Ed 42%, 47,439 votes; USDAW David 53%, 8,264 votes).
Less than 10% of union members actually voted yet Ed still won with the union vote over David's MP and Regular Party member votes.
Less than 10%.
I think it's clear what happened there. The unions didn't want David, and that's exactly what happened.
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"A total of 2,747,030 ballot papers were sent out to 'Section 3: Affiliates' - trade unionists paying the political levy and members of socialist societies. Of these Unite members accounted for 1,055,074, the GMB for 554, 130 and Unison for 419,142.
Each of the big unions recorded turnout below 10%. But their endorsements were clearly worth something. In every union the endorsed candidate got the biggest share of the vote, and the bigger the union the more it contributed to the total numbers. (GMB Ed 42%, 18,000 votes; Unison Ed 34%, 9,632 votes; Unite Ed 42%, 47,439 votes; USDAW David 53%, 8,264 votes).
Less than 10% of union members actually voted yet Ed still won with the union vote over David's MP and Regular Party member votes.
Less than 10%.
I think it's clear what happened there. The unions didn't want David, and that's exactly what happened.
"
Clear to a Tory....because you will see it the way you want to see it...
Check out how Thatcher was elected Conservative leader, makes interesting reading.....Tory Right Wing activists throwing champagne and strawberry parties around the constituences for months before they railroaded the witch in.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A total of 2,747,030 ballot papers were sent out to 'Section 3: Affiliates' - trade unionists paying the political levy and members of socialist societies. Of these Unite members accounted for 1,055,074, the GMB for 554, 130 and Unison for 419,142.
Each of the big unions recorded turnout below 10%. But their endorsements were clearly worth something. In every union the endorsed candidate got the biggest share of the vote, and the bigger the union the more it contributed to the total numbers. (GMB Ed 42%, 18,000 votes; Unison Ed 34%, 9,632 votes; Unite Ed 42%, 47,439 votes; USDAW David 53%, 8,264 votes).
Less than 10% of union members actually voted yet Ed still won with the union vote over David's MP and Regular Party member votes.
Less than 10%.
I think it's clear what happened there. The unions didn't want David, and that's exactly what happened.
Clear to a Tory....because you will see it the way you want to see it...
Check out how Thatcher was elected Conservative leader, makes interesting reading.....Tory Right Wing activists throwing champagne and strawberry parties around the constituences for months before they railroaded the witch in.
"
No Jane, it's clear because that's what the results clearly show.
The Unions backed Ed and the majority of the membership that could be bothered to vote voted for the candidate that their union was backing.
What's so difficult to understand about that? It may not be a Scragill docket-waving block vote, but it's the very next best thing... to a Labour leader candidate who knows his brother is winning the race. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That smells like Adam Boulton.
An educated guess or did you just copy the link to the article I posted just above and read that it is Adam Boulton?"
Neither. Lau Tzu. |
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When David Cameron was elected leader of the Tories senior members from the Right of the party endorsed him to party members because he was 'their man'.
Just how is that any different?
Endorsements happen in all political circles, it's not just a policy for the Labour party.
For the record.....Cameron got the nod from Thatcher, and that carried big weight among the Tory faithful.
Still not block voting though....in any sense of the word. |
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i might be wrong , but on a technical note
an immigrant after being in the country a mere week or so , could be registered to vote , and hold a british passport
they would of course also have just as much right to political protest of even the most controversal subject
you might say that they transform from being an immigrant to being a british subject in an instant with equall rights to any other british citizen
so there cannot be any probationary period applied to them with the threat of expulsion if they do not "toe the line"
as regards seasonal workers that pick crops in the fields , they are surely not immigrants , but more akin to people on a working holiday , and no more an immigrant than i might be if a spend a few winter months in florida , even though i might have a green card i havent immigrated to the usa
even if they register with inland revenue and pay tax that doesnt mean they have immigrated to the UK
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The Unions were a godsend and much needed, then they found they had immense power and went kinda "we can do anything" sadly just like many leaders including Maggie.
Maggie put them back in thier place and paid the price for it, I respect her for that.
Up until now the Unions have gone back to thier original agenda of improving working conditions and salaries where it is necessary as best they can and done a pretty good job of it.
I would hate to see them return to the days when they called a strike because the toilet ran out of toilet paper.
The Unions put us in a position where something had to be done, £20 costs for bringing up a bag of coal that we sold for £10 was crazy, some pits had to close, some changes had to be made.
Show me a strong Union of the 80's and I will show you and Proud Industry Britain no longer has, Car production owned by Britain, Coal, Steel, Shipbuilding etc.
Maggie did many good things before her power made her make stupid descisions, the right to buy (but didn't make councils build new for sold. Higher rates of pay for the Armed Forces, Nurses, Firemen and Police, I was a soldier serving in NI when she came to power, I was recieving supplementary benefits because my wages fell below the breadline.
I cannot support her policies at the end but for 4 years she turned this Country round, she eliminated the National Debt, now as we all know in the Trillions again, she paid off our War bill to the USA for goods supplied during WW2, she made the EU realise that we wouldn't be conned or browbeaten and pay ridiculous amounts..
How things have changed back since she has gone |
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Naturalised British Citizens can qualify for a British passport and vote after first being granted leave to remain (one year) then a further three years living in the UK....if married to a UK national
Or One year leave to remain plus Five years living in the UK....if not married to a UK national.
So no....not that straightforward. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Foreign workers in this country are "migrant workers", some may stay most will leave when there is better paid work elsewhere, I spent two years as a migrant worker in Verbier Ski Resort in Switzerland where 70% of the workers are from England another 20% are from (in the main Australia, New Zealand, USA and the Nordic regions) the majority do 6 months of thier gap year working in chalets, bars, hotels etc for the skiing experience then move on to somewhere hot for the beach experience like Ibiza or florida. 7% are Brits who have set up a permanent home in the village and work or own businesses there all year round and 3% are from other countries doing the same. The guy who owns the most businesses in Verbier is Australian. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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You will find a similar situation in Chamonix France and most other Swiss, French, Austrian ski resorts and in many places like Ibiza, Mallorca etc.
These people are a lot different to the "immigrants" who come to this country to re-locate permanently with the intention of working or not working.
When we do it to places like Spain we call ourselves Ex-pats not immigrants unless we are migrant workers then we call ourselves students on gap year or on a working holiday |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So wishy you think the average working man/union member is stupid and should be smashed into the dirt by the obscenely super rich?
Why not go the full hog and not educate the working class and get 12 year olds to work 12 -14 hour days.
If it wasnt for past unions we would still be living like that
I'm not saying unions don't have a role to play and a place in our society - but that they should know what that place is, and not try and force government policy that favours just themselves with the threat of withdrawing block votes. Which, incidentally, has lumbered the Labour party with an unlectable leader over his very electable brother. Talking about shooting oneself in the foot. "
"Favours just themselves?!!" Do you know how unions work?!!
Ordinary, hard working, LOW paid, public sector workers pay me and my colleagues to ensure the employer (government) treats them fairly.
I've had ex-squaddies break down in tears in my office asking for my help against the MoD: I've had their family phone me at all hours asking for help. I've had to fight the MCA to pay a coastguard (salary £9,000 a year) as he was injured rescuing some twat who got stuck on some cliffs. Apparently it was his fault for not waiting for additional help so he banged up his knee: tough!
I could go on: I deal with individuals, sometimes it breaks my heart. My colleagues deal with departments of people. These are not looney, left wing nutters just ordinary, decent, hard working people trying to improve their lot and keep a roof over their heads!
I wish I was being paid a fortune to keep fat cats on the gravy train. The reality is I deal with people, who by the time they get to me are very fragile indeed. Ordinary people looking for someone to fight their corner.
My colleagues and I will continue to not know our place to help those less fortunate than ourselves. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So wishy you think the average working man/union member is stupid and should be smashed into the dirt by the obscenely super rich?
Why not go the full hog and not educate the working class and get 12 year olds to work 12 -14 hour days.
If it wasnt for past unions we would still be living like that
I'm not saying unions don't have a role to play and a place in our society - but that they should know what that place is, and not try and force government policy that favours just themselves with the threat of withdrawing block votes. Which, incidentally, has lumbered the Labour party with an unlectable leader over his very electable brother. Talking about shooting oneself in the foot.
"Favours just themselves?!!" Do you know how unions work?!!
Ordinary, hard working, LOW paid, public sector workers pay me and my colleagues to ensure the employer (government) treats them fairly.
I've had ex-squaddies break down in tears in my office asking for my help against the MoD: I've had their family phone me at all hours asking for help. I've had to fight the MCA to pay a coastguard (salary £9,000 a year) as he was injured rescuing some twat who got stuck on some cliffs. Apparently it was his fault for not waiting for additional help so he banged up his knee: tough!
I could go on: I deal with individuals, sometimes it breaks my heart. My colleagues deal with departments of people. These are not looney, left wing nutters just ordinary, decent, hard working people trying to improve their lot and keep a roof over their heads!
I wish I was being paid a fortune to keep fat cats on the gravy train. The reality is I deal with people, who by the time they get to me are very fragile indeed. Ordinary people looking for someone to fight their corner.
My colleagues and I will continue to not know our place to help those less fortunate than ourselves."
You should know me well enough by now from my posts on here that I am not a naive person. Whilst I recognise that there are people doing a terrific job on the front line of union activity, and who clearly believe that they are making a difference to their members, I also recognise that people at the heads of some unions - men like Bob Crow, who is a devout militant and has been itching for a Tory govt so he can start shouting in earnest again. There are many men like Crow heading up the other main unions and they love nothing more than getting their faces on the TV and the high profile status that comes with it. If someone shouted 'strike a match' to Bob Crow he'd take that as a signal for a mass walkout. |
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"So wishy you think the average working man/union member is stupid and should be smashed into the dirt by the obscenely super rich?
Why not go the full hog and not educate the working class and get 12 year olds to work 12 -14 hour days.
If it wasnt for past unions we would still be living like that
I'm not saying unions don't have a role to play and a place in our society - but that they should know what that place is, and not try and force government policy that favours just themselves with the threat of withdrawing block votes. Which, incidentally, has lumbered the Labour party with an unlectable leader over his very electable brother. Talking about shooting oneself in the foot.
"Favours just themselves?!!" Do you know how unions work?!!
Ordinary, hard working, LOW paid, public sector workers pay me and my colleagues to ensure the employer (government) treats them fairly.
I've had ex-squaddies break down in tears in my office asking for my help against the MoD: I've had their family phone me at all hours asking for help. I've had to fight the MCA to pay a coastguard (salary £9,000 a year) as he was injured rescuing some twat who got stuck on some cliffs. Apparently it was his fault for not waiting for additional help so he banged up his knee: tough!
I could go on: I deal with individuals, sometimes it breaks my heart. My colleagues deal with departments of people. These are not looney, left wing nutters just ordinary, decent, hard working people trying to improve their lot and keep a roof over their heads!
I wish I was being paid a fortune to keep fat cats on the gravy train. The reality is I deal with people, who by the time they get to me are very fragile indeed. Ordinary people looking for someone to fight their corner.
My colleagues and I will continue to not know our place to help those less fortunate than ourselves."
good post ,its no wonder the unions are tarred with militancy when they are fighting an avalance of problems from members. As a former union rep ,it amazed me the lengths the "controllers"
(sorry i cant call them managers as a lot of them never did) would go to to appear to be doing there job.
How about the senior health and safety guy who tried to hide the levels of exposure to asbestos .employees and the public were exposed to, as he knew later down the road people may be seeking compensation when terminally ill.
Or for example the totally stressed out woman who after a family bereavment and legally off work with a doctors certificate, who was "visited " without notice by a HR team ,who bullied her to returning to work,where after she returned back ,totally broke down .
As the poster above said ,these are not left wing militants or agitators but ordinary people,just trying to get by.
Without the unions we would be back sending kids into tight spaces and throwing people on the scrap heap when they outlive there usefullness.
The unions do a great job.
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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago
central scotland |
My eyes were opened to cynical magagement when I worked in chrysler Linwood factory, As soon as the parks were full as the cars were not selling you knew you would soon be on the street due to a manipulated strike.
They would try every underhand method and believe me the unions would bend over backwards to appease them, finally they would start sacking men right left and centre just for looking at them the wrong way till finally they forced a strike,and as soon as the parks emptied they would agree to reinstate sacked men and everyone would be back at work till next time the parks were full.
And I dont think for a minute that this was the only place that happened ,but the uniions always got the blame. |
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