FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Does the Cap Fit?
Does the Cap Fit?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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It seems that to meet part of the £12b cuts required by the government the total amount of benefit a household can receive will be reduced to £23k in London and circa £20k in the provinces.
Additionally the BBC are being asked to find the cost of free TV licences for the over 75s.
We voted them in but are these cuts fair and justified or just another attack on those less well off? |
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I still think the cap is too high. Many people who work for a living, earning say £25k pa, only have around £11k pa left after commuting costs, income tax, NI, rent and council tax. So benefits is still too attractive a proposition for the workshy.
Given that the unemployed do not have to bear the costs outlined above, nor do they have to fund childcare during school holidays the cap should be set at around £10k. |
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"It seems that to meet part of the £12b cuts required by the government the total amount of benefit a household can receive will be reduced to £23k in London and circa £20k in the provinces.
Additionally the BBC are being asked to find the cost of free TV licences for the over 75s.
We voted them in but are these cuts fair and justified or just another attack on those less well off?"
I didn't vote for it and of course it's the *continuation* of the attack on the less well off. |
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By *oxy_minxWoman
over a year ago
Scotland - Aberdeen |
Well I have worked all my life, I have never received benefits of any kind, why should someone who doesn't earn be on the same income as myself? I work hard, I pay all my own bills, It should not be easy street on benefits......just my opinion of course but hard working people should reap the rewards as it is my contributions that is helping fund those on benefits. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's absolutely fair, more than.
As for the BBC fuck them.
2/3 years back when the story broke that Jimmy Carr didn't pay tax by way of a legal tax avoidance scheme the BBC carried out its own enquiry. The result :
Out of a total staff of 54k, some 23k were being remunerated by way of tax avoidance schemes. Significantly less tax and NI was being collected than should have been.
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"But what if you cannot work for reasons beyond your control such as a chronic disability?"
Then you get all the benefits of the regular unemployed, plus disability living allowance (or whatever it's called nowadays). I know many people on DLA who could work, but life is too good. One single guy I know gets over £16k with his DLA, and no housing, council tax, income tax, NI or commuting costs to pay.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But what if you cannot work for reasons beyond your control such as a chronic disability?"
Do you want it both ways, generally the disabled don't like being discriminated against. So it's fair to have what the majority have.
Plus, how you gonna spend more?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"20k in benefits a year? Blimey !!That's a total cap...........someone could have 5 kids"
So? Hand me downs come in handy.
Share the Iphone, Ipad etc ffs , a day each. |
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By *oxy_minxWoman
over a year ago
Scotland - Aberdeen |
"But what if you cannot work for reasons beyond your control such as a chronic disability?"
I don't mind my contributions helping those who need it because they honestly cannot work, it's the one's who can but don't that is the problem along with the doctors who think it makes their life easy just to keep dishing out sick notes.
I know the benefit system is not easy to beat for those of us who do not know how to abuse it, but how do those who do abuse it know how to?
I find it extremely odd indeed as my sister who has had a mental break down took years to get any help, so something is not working! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Nobody needs a TV license these days.
I don't receive £20,000 a year, and there are 5 people in my household and we get top up benefits so that won't apply to many people (the last cap only affected 200 families). |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
But look at the other things that this government can afford to do to help people they think are "poor", "Oh your house is only worth £1,000,000? Bless, no it's OK, you shouldn't have to pay inheritance tax." "You only earn £150,000? How terrible for you! The government will give you some more free childcare to help you out."
This government wants the middle and low income earners to turn on the even less well off instead of looking at what they are doing for the people with real money and influence in this country. All the while telling us "we're all in this together". The people sitting round the cabinet table are millionaires with private educations looking out for their friends. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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They are attacks on the less well off though, even if these cuts won't affect them the gov give off the impression that those on benefits are better off than those not on them. Austerity measures always are attacks on the poor. |
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"I still think the cap is too high. Many people who work for a living, earning say £25k pa, only have around £11k pa left after commuting costs, income tax, NI, rent and council tax. So benefits is still too attractive a proposition for the workshy.
Given that the unemployed do not have to bear the costs outlined above, nor do they have to fund childcare during school holidays the cap should be set at around £10k."
At 10k Youd have about a fiver a week
Left for water/gas/electric/food by the time rent and council tax is paid.. |
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" !!That's a total cap...........someone could have 5 kids"
But that's their choice and they should have thought of that before having them. Many people work full time, have 5 or more kids, and don't have half the disposable income that those on benefits do, yet they still manage. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What does £3k extra buy you in London given everything's twice the price?
"
What? Petrol and Deisel are twice the price as out in the sticks?
repeat ad nauseum for 1000+ items.
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"20k in benefits a year? Blimey !!That's a total cap...........someone could have 5 kids
Having kids is a choice not gods given right and be paid to have them  "
You can't give them away though if you are in a well paid job then get laid off or become unwell  |
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"
At 10k Youd have about a fiver a week
Left for water/gas/electric/food by the time rent and council tax is paid.. "
But they don't have to pay rent or council tax, the £10k or whatever the cap is set at, is for food and utilities only, all the other outgoings are covered by housing benefit and council tax benefit |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I still think the cap is too high. Many people who work for a living, earning say £25k pa, only have around £11k pa left after commuting costs, income tax, NI, rent and council tax. So benefits is still too attractive a proposition for the workshy.
Given that the unemployed do not have to bear the costs outlined above, nor do they have to fund childcare during school holidays the cap should be set at around £10k."
Im on 25k a year and got £130 a week to live on, i feel some people on benefits have unrealistic expectaions about how much money they think they should get a week. |
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"
At 10k Youd have about a fiver a week
Left for water/gas/electric/food by the time rent and council tax is paid..
But they don't have to pay rent or council tax, the £10k or whatever the cap is set at, is for food and utilities only, all the other outgoings are covered by housing benefit and council tax benefit"
I was under the impression that the benefit cap was for the total amount of benefit recieved including housing and council tax benefit. |
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Benefits that are affected
The cap applies to the total amount that the people in your household get from the following benefits:
Bereavement Allowance
Carer’s Allowance
Child Benefit
Child Tax Credit
Employment and Support Allowance (unless you get the support component)
Guardian’s Allowance
Housing Benefit
Incapacity Benefit
Income Support
Jobseeker’s Allowance
Maternity Allowance
Severe Disablement Allowance
Widowed Parent’s Allowance (or Widowed Mother’s Allowance or Widows Pension you started getting before 9 April 2001) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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According to a survey a living wage is £16,460 thats what an adult needs to earn to cover bills and food, after tax thats about 13 grand,so that's what it should be capped at
And then maybe a thousand pound a year extra per child capped at 3 kids, to cover the extra cost of food and clothes, so a max 16 grand |
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By *oxy_minxWoman
over a year ago
Scotland - Aberdeen |
"20k in benefits a year? Blimey !!That's a total cap...........someone could have 5 kids
Having kids is a choice not gods given right and be paid to have them
You can't give them away though if you are in a well paid job then get laid off or become unwell "
But you don't have 5 kids! There is a difference  It about planning and not expecting to have other people to pay for you as a lot seem to do.
But read my other post if disability has affected you then I agree with it, not just sitting at home making babies you can't afford to pay for. |
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By *amparaWoman
over a year ago
biggleswade |
"But what if you cannot work for reasons beyond your control such as a chronic disability?
I don't mind my contributions helping those who need it because they honestly cannot work, it's the one's who can but don't that is the problem along with the doctors who think it makes their life easy just to keep dishing out sick notes.
I know the benefit system is not easy to beat for those of us who do not know how to abuse it, but how do those who do abuse it know how to?
I find it extremely odd indeed as my sister who has had a mental break down took years to get any help, so something is not working!"
oh god another person that believes the utter crap that people on benefits have it easy because they watch programmes like benefit street etc they are only a small minority who get away with it and shock horror anyone on benefits are scroungers i gladly give to those worse off than myself, you never know you may be in the same situation one day!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
At 10k Youd have about a fiver a week
Left for water/gas/electric/food by the time rent and council tax is paid..
But they don't have to pay rent or council tax, the £10k or whatever the cap is set at, is for food and utilities only, all the other outgoings are covered by housing benefit and council tax benefit"
Housing benefit and council tax are already counted under the cap, because that's where most of benefits claimants money goes. |
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"Why should working people pay for no working people to have children. We could only afford two children and both work full time. "
Who says anyone Is paying for people to have children?? Anyone could have had kids in comfortable circumstances and then find themselves jobless or have health problems. |
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"But look at the other things that this government can afford to do to help people they think are "poor", "Oh your house is only worth £1,000,000? Bless, no it's OK, you shouldn't have to pay inheritance tax." "You only earn £150,000? How terrible for you! The government will give you some more free childcare to help you out."
This government wants the middle and low income earners to turn on the even less well off instead of looking at what they are doing for the people with real money and influence in this country. All the while telling us "we're all in this together". The people sitting round the cabinet table are millionaires with private educations looking out for their friends. "
Of course they are.
Firstly they're politicians and
Secondly they're Tory politicians |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"20k in benefits a year? Blimey !!That's a total cap...........someone could have 5 kids
Having kids is a choice not gods given right and be paid to have them "
But if you have already had them and have now been made redundant after working since you left school...the kids can't be undone, people need help after paying taxes when working surely. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Benefits that are affected
The cap applies to the total amount that the people in your household get from the following benefits:
Bereavement Allowance
Carer’s Allowance
Child Benefit
Child Tax Credit
Employment and Support Allowance (unless you get the support component)
Guardian’s Allowance
Housing Benefit
Incapacity Benefit
Income Support
Jobseeker’s Allowance
Maternity Allowance
Severe Disablement Allowance
Widowed Parent’s Allowance (or Widowed Mother’s Allowance or Widows Pension you started getting before 9 April 2001)"
Income support and carers is for people who cannot work though. I suppose someone was gonna try implementing Hitlers eugenics again though and not surprised it's this government.
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By *oxy_minxWoman
over a year ago
Scotland - Aberdeen |
"But what if you cannot work for reasons beyond your control such as a chronic disability?
I don't mind my contributions helping those who need it because they honestly cannot work, it's the one's who can but don't that is the problem along with the doctors who think it makes their life easy just to keep dishing out sick notes.
I know the benefit system is not easy to beat for those of us who do not know how to abuse it, but how do those who do abuse it know how to?
I find it extremely odd indeed as my sister who has had a mental break down took years to get any help, so something is not working!oh god another person that believes the utter crap that people on benefits have it easy because they watch programmes like benefit street etc they are only a small minority who get away with it and shock horror anyone on benefits are scroungers i gladly give to those worse off than myself, you never know you may be in the same situation one day!!"
May I direct you to read my post again? Bloody keyboards warriors are out again it seems! I said, I agree with those who cannot work as I tried to help my sister out when she had a mental breakdown and I didn't have a bloody clue where to start! And because she had a mortgage all people were interested in were when can we take this property back, not trying to help her! So back off and unless you know someone's story bugger off until you have the facts! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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George Osborne was on the Andrew Marr show today. Worryingly I like him, but I'm totally unconvinced by some of their policies. I know they're trying to balance the books but some things don't seem thought through.
They're looking at increasing rent too for affordable housing for those who earn over a certain amount, so they'll pay market rent rather than a social rent. I kind of get it, but can still it being a hard rule to manage. Esp if someone is self employed. How do you keep checking their wage to monitor what they should pay?
The good thing about the benefits cap on housing benefit is, it might make the unscrupulous private landlords less greedy ! Before it was like a blank chequebook.
I think the inheritance tax rule is obviously only of benefit to the very well off.
Sounds like tax credits will get hit too. They need to up the minimum wage so people don't need the top up from tax credits. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"What is counted in the 20k benefits?
I posted a list further up ruggers xx"
Sorry I wasn't very clear....I meant what benefits is included to make it up to 20k....ie how do you they get to that figure? Does it include rent etc? |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"But what if you cannot work for reasons beyond your control such as a chronic disability?
I don't mind my contributions helping those who need it because they honestly cannot work, it's the one's who can but don't that is the problem along with the doctors who think it makes their life easy just to keep dishing out sick notes.
I know the benefit system is not easy to beat for those of us who do not know how to abuse it, but how do those who do abuse it know how to?
I find it extremely odd indeed as my sister who has had a mental break down took years to get any help, so something is not working!oh god another person that believes the utter crap that people on benefits have it easy because they watch programmes like benefit street etc they are only a small minority who get away with it and shock horror anyone on benefits are scroungers i gladly give to those worse off than myself, you never know you may be in the same situation one day!!
May I direct you to read my post again? Bloody keyboards warriors are out again it seems! I said, I agree with those who cannot work as I tried to help my sister out when she had a mental breakdown and I didn't have a bloody clue where to start! And because she had a mortgage all people were interested in were when can we take this property back, not trying to help her! So back off and unless you know someone's story bugger off until you have the facts! "
Ok lets keep it civil please |
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By *oxy_minxWoman
over a year ago
Scotland - Aberdeen |
"But what if you cannot work for reasons beyond your control such as a chronic disability?
I don't mind my contributions helping those who need it because they honestly cannot work, it's the one's who can but don't that is the problem along with the doctors who think it makes their life easy just to keep dishing out sick notes.
I know the benefit system is not easy to beat for those of us who do not know how to abuse it, but how do those who do abuse it know how to?
I find it extremely odd indeed as my sister who has had a mental break down took years to get any help, so something is not working!oh god another person that believes the utter crap that people on benefits have it easy because they watch programmes like benefit street etc they are only a small minority who get away with it and shock horror anyone on benefits are scroungers i gladly give to those worse off than myself, you never know you may be in the same situation one day!!
May I direct you to read my post again? Bloody keyboards warriors are out again it seems! I said, I agree with those who cannot work as I tried to help my sister out when she had a mental breakdown and I didn't have a bloody clue where to start! And because she had a mortgage all people were interested in were when can we take this property back, not trying to help her! So back off and unless you know someone's story bugger off until you have the facts!
Ok lets keep it civil please "
Trust me I did |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
At 10k Youd have about a fiver a week
Left for water/gas/electric/food by the time rent and council tax is paid..
But they don't have to pay rent or council tax, the £10k or whatever the cap is set at, is for food and utilities only, all the other outgoings are covered by housing benefit and council tax benefit"
You really should read more and listen less to the media. The cap covers all benefits and includes housing,council tax and every other benefit you can name.
It is a cap on TOTAL benefit received not just the check people get every month.
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"What is counted in the 20k benefits?
I posted a list further up ruggers xx
Sorry I wasn't very clear....I meant what benefits is included to make it up to 20k....ie how do you they get to that figure? Does it include rent etc?"
Yes it includes rent (which is covered by housing benefit) and council tax, which are paid, in most cases, directly to the landlord, and council. The claimant doesn't see any of that money as cash as it's not paid to them. The cap will also cover the benefits mentioned above that are paid which then have to cover food, utilities, clothing, transportation etc. Etc. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"What is counted in the 20k benefits?
I posted a list further up ruggers xx
Sorry I wasn't very clear....I meant what benefits is included to make it up to 20k....ie how do you they get to that figure? Does it include rent etc?
Yes it includes rent (which is covered by housing benefit) and council tax, which are paid, in most cases, directly to the landlord, and council. The claimant doesn't see any of that money as cash as it's not paid to them. The cap will also cover the benefits mentioned above that are paid which then have to cover food, utilities, clothing, transportation etc. Etc."
Thanks....so basically the people saying that others have 20k to spend is not quite right. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But look at the other things that this government can afford to do to help people they think are "poor", "Oh your house is only worth £1,000,000? Bless, no it's OK, you shouldn't have to pay inheritance tax." "You only earn £150,000? How terrible for you! The government will give you some more free childcare to help you out."
This government wants the middle and low income earners to turn on the even less well off instead of looking at what they are doing for the people with real money and influence in this country. All the while telling us "we're all in this together". The people sitting round the cabinet table are millionaires with private educations looking out for their friends.
Of course they are.
Firstly they're politicians and
Secondly they're Tory politicians "
The system is fucked. Some people who really deserve help are getting screwed but there are a so many people who are playing or abusing the system. Why take a full time job that pays minimum wage if you can claim even 10k in benefits.
On the other hand is it fair to say to someone who pays half of their salary in tax that they need to pay more?
I honestly don't know what the solution is. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"What is counted in the 20k benefits?
I posted a list further up ruggers xx
Sorry I wasn't very clear....I meant what benefits is included to make it up to 20k....ie how do you they get to that figure? Does it include rent etc?
Yes it includes rent (which is covered by housing benefit) and council tax, which are paid, in most cases, directly to the landlord, and council. The claimant doesn't see any of that money as cash as it's not paid to them. The cap will also cover the benefits mentioned above that are paid which then have to cover food, utilities, clothing, transportation etc. Etc.
Thanks....so basically the people saying that others have 20k to spend is not quite right."
It's not as though they have £20k going through their bank account per year no. Rent and council tax will usually equate to a substantial amount of the benefit bill.
In the future though, as people move onto a new benefit called Universal Credit, it will be paid in cash to the claimant, giving them the responsibility to then pay their rent and bills.
Some say this is setting the vulnerable up to fail and will lead to people getting evicted from their homes, others say they should be trusted to make those decisions and it is more like work where you get paid your salary and can do what you want with it. |
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By *iewMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Angus & Findhorn |
"I know very few people on benefits, but all the ones that I do know, work on the side.
One had 3 jobs 
Controversial View, be careful!  "
It's a small sample size and utterly meaningless in the grand scheme of life, but it's my experience |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"What is counted in the 20k benefits?
I posted a list further up ruggers xx
Sorry I wasn't very clear....I meant what benefits is included to make it up to 20k....ie how do you they get to that figure? Does it include rent etc?
Yes it includes rent (which is covered by housing benefit) and council tax, which are paid, in most cases, directly to the landlord, and council. The claimant doesn't see any of that money as cash as it's not paid to them. The cap will also cover the benefits mentioned above that are paid which then have to cover food, utilities, clothing, transportation etc. Etc.
Thanks....so basically the people saying that others have 20k to spend is not quite right.
It's not as though they have £20k going through their bank account per year no. Rent and council tax will usually equate to a substantial amount of the benefit bill.
In the future though, as people move onto a new benefit called Universal Credit, it will be paid in cash to the claimant, giving them the responsibility to then pay their rent and bills.
Some say this is setting the vulnerable up to fail and will lead to people getting evicted from their homes, others say they should be trusted to make those decisions and it is more like work where you get paid your salary and can do what you want with it."
Hmmm I would say that might tempt the people who are working the system ( as we all know there are people who do )to spend money on other things rather than the rent. I can see them then bleating when they get evicted. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Fact is that the cuts are coming and the people spoke in May. First time in 18 years this will be a Tory budget.......sit back and hold on tight to your benefits! |
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