FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Could you live without your car.
Could you live without your car.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I was driving down the M62 last week and wondered why do all these people commute from Liverpool to Manchester and Vice versa. Why not just move house to be closer to your job, then travel to see friends / relatives at the weekend. It makes sense you spend 5 out of 7 days at work after all ( ok most people do ).
This was just my latest thought on cars and what a pain they are.
Another is Anti social behaviour ( litter vandalism etc ). People no longer spend time walking through their neighbourhood. Gangs of kids are less likely to be faced with somebody from the local community who gives a toss. Most people are simply passing by in their car.
Do you think you are falling into the oil companies trap and modern consumerist ways or is it all just inevitable?
Bring it on..
Barry. |
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When I lived in the South East I rarely drove anywhere as public transport was the best way to get to work for me, but down here in Devon we are lucky to get a bus every hour (where I live) so I would be lost without my car. |
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I can manage without a car (I am at the moment as mine is off the road) it just makes some things a bit of a pain. Visiting my folks for instance takes 3 hours by car as opposed to 9 hours by public transport. Shopping and carting kids around is just so much more simple with a car. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Some repsonses to make you think.
"My Job involves lots of driving so I'd be knackered without it"
You choose your job, it doesn't choose you. Would your job have existed in the same form before the prevalance of car ownership?
"When I lived in the South East I rarely drove anywhere as public transport was the best way to get to work for me, but down here in Devon we are lucky to get a bus every hour (where I live) so I would be lost without my car."
You moved to Devon because you knew a car would faciliate the way of life you expect. If you had lived in Devon all your life its possible your way of life would have been shaped by the environment around you.
Not wanting to cause offence, just giving the contrary _iew.
Barry. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I could certainly live without one,,,,, but I much prefer not having too, and although I don't particularly like cars... I like having one….. erm make that two actually..... Noooo, not new ones,,,,....pah.... one of em is 9 yr old the other is 41 this year,,,, yep forty bleed'in one...I was given it, and I’ve now owned it for 16 yr and before ya start, I ain’t some sorta flash-git having two cars, cuz neither of them are worth the price of a rag-mans balloon.... ahem… and I’m not a tight-wad either … eek, honestly….. I just believe in making things last, that all….   |
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"Some repsonses to make you think.
"My Job involves lots of driving so I'd be knackered without it"
You choose your job, it doesn't choose you. Would your job have existed in the same form before the prevalance of car ownership?
"When I lived in the South East I rarely drove anywhere as public transport was the best way to get to work for me, but down here in Devon we are lucky to get a bus every hour (where I live) so I would be lost without my car."
You moved to Devon because you knew a car would faciliate the way of life you expect. If you had lived in Devon all your life its possible your way of life would have been shaped by the environment around you.
Not wanting to cause offence, just giving the contrary _iew.
Barry."
I totally agree with you, lets all sell our cars and get a horse and trap each - there's a little thing called 'progress' that goes on all the time, if you don't agree with cars - sell yours! Z |
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So you think that everyone who lives in villages in Devon works locally?, I'll let you into a secret, even for the vast majority of people born and bred here and living out of the towns there is no alternative than to go to their place of work by car.....
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some repsonses to make you think.
"My Job involves lots of driving so I'd be knackered without it"
You choose your job, it doesn't choose you. Would your job have existed in the same form before the prevalance of car ownership?
"When I lived in the South East I rarely drove anywhere as public transport was the best way to get to work for me, but down here in Devon we are lucky to get a bus every hour (where I live) so I would be lost without my car."
You moved to Devon because you knew a car would faciliate the way of life you expect. If you had lived in Devon all your life its possible your way of life would have been shaped by the environment around you.
Not wanting to cause offence, just giving the contrary _iew.
Barry.
I totally agree with you, lets all sell our cars and get a horse and trap each - there's a little thing called 'progress' that goes on all the time, if you don't agree with cars - sell yours! Z"
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"there's a little thing called 'progress' that goes on all the time, if you don't agree with cars - sell yours!"
Progress just means moving forward, not necessarily for the better.
I wasn't setting you up for this or anything, but I didn't day I owned a car.
Its like a chicken and the egg scenario. Does you car facilitate or manipulate?
I have a sister on the dole who believes its a basic humam right to have a car. Somebody I was speaking to the other day was saying she wouldn't declare her drink driving ban ( expired ) because it would push her insurace out of her reach.
Barry. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The small village I live in is 45 mins drive to anywhere approaching civilisation.
Public transport is so disjointed and irregular a bus to catch a train for instance should be simple but it's not.
I love where I live, work in the area is mainly tourist based but I wouldn't think of moving to be closer to more job opportunities.
I've lived in big cities, done my stint with walking everywhere with the kids or biking, or public transport.
I like my small community where we are self policing....yes we tell other peoples kids if they are being naughty...they do the same, we have no police here! I can leave my door open and unlocked if I want to and just have to get in my car if I want the big city bright lights experience again. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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with 5 children ranging from 18 months to 18 years i would definately be lost with out my car, we live in a small village in wales and public transport is almost no existant and with all the kids doing thier activities (iceskating swimming dancing just to name a few) to keep them off the streets causing trouble would be almost impossible, but having said that i did wait until i could drive before we moved here. bringing the children up in a village is fantastic ( well it works for my family) and we wouldn't have been able to move here if i didn't drive as i would never be able to visit my family without having a major mental breakdown lol .
j x |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"So you think that everyone who lives in villages in Devon works locally?, I'll let you into a secret, even for the vast majority of people born and bred here and living out of the towns there is no alternative than to go to their place of work by car.....
"
Before mass car ownership people would have had to be employed locally or along established commuting routes. Dont think present, think past, cars have changed the way we live forever.
Barry. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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What car ownership gives is convenience. Which gives you the ability to spend more time doing what advertisers want you to spend your money on.
OMG, where's my flame proof suit.
Barry. |
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Before the advent of the car this village had less than Two dozen houses, the car allowed people to travel further afield for better paid employment. The industry that people worked at in this area before the car came along no longer exists in any great numbers. Therefore local industry can no longer sustain the population.
Maybe if you lived in a more rural area you would appreciate that more. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
Please dont take this personally.
Maybe if you lived in a more rural area you would appreciate that more."
Again your making an assumption that I have never lived in a rural area.
Why did the population boom, because people could commute from there. Without the car the industry would have supported the community or the excess community would have had to leave.
Barry. |
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"
Please dont take this personally.
Maybe if you lived in a more rural area you would appreciate that more.
Again your making an assumption that I have never lived in a rural area.
Why did the population boom, because people could commute from there. Without the car the industry would have supported the community or the excess community would have had to leave.
Barry."
Wrong....the local industry died off because the stone they were quarrying was no longer of a competative price.
Now who's assuming? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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my parents live in swaffham,norfolk. a market town of six thousand people. very little public road transport and the nearest train station is 15 miles away. getting anywhere without a car is nigh on impossible.
at the other end of the scale,a mate of mine in london paid 38k for a mercedes and sold it at a big loss 7 months later. the reason being that he never used it.
a lot of 'young professionals' buying houses in London will take into account which public transport travelzone it is in. they don't need cars to live in those areas. knock on effect was that it pushed up the house prices in areas where people like myself were desperate to get out of 25 years ago. Brixton is a lot more 'gentrified' now. maybe we should sell our car and move back....or not! |
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When my village saw it's local quarry closed down because it was no longer cost effective the younger generation of working age took employment further afield (At the beginning of the last century).
This often meant that whole generations moved away and never came back, there wasn't the public transport to facilitate them commuting each and every day so they simply moved away.
When motor vehicle ownership increased it meant that many long vacated quarry workers cottages were brought by people who lived in local towns and cities and could themselves commute.
Nothing groundbreaking here....just progress |
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By *iewMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Angus & Findhorn |
About 7 years ago, I lost my license for 6 months due to reaching 12 points, my job took me from Thurso in the north of Scotland to Truro in the south of England... without question... it was the worst 6 months of my life.
My fault and it taught me a lesson.
Never again. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Similar circumstances to Jane here, the local fishing industry has all but died, the farms are giving up land for housing, people commute to Edinburgh Dundee etc. from here.
Like tra-mal mentioned, my daughter lives in Edinburgh, walks or cycles with her 4 yr old to his nursery then onto work, she has no need for a car doesn't want one and refused driving lessons when younger because she has always sustained herself living in big cities and fully utilises public transport if needs be. She could neither afford the high cost of permit parking or running a car which would not be as useful to her as her bike in the city.
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I get the impression that the OP has decided on the 'Green Route' in life and now converted (nothing wrong with it, individual choice rules ok!) to going without a car and instead uses public transport or walks/bikes.
That's great if it works for the OP, but not everyone can or chooses to go down that road as for the majority vehicle ownership is essential for work.
But by all means justify your self away as to why you decided on this way of life, but questioning other peoples choices in life is really intruding on their personal preferences IMO.
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I couldn't do with out my car.
It is my psychological penis extension and I would therefore feel emasculated without it, nay cockless!
I love sliding it into dark holes that open up when I press the right buttons mmmmmmmmm cocky car garage fucks |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Couldn't live without my car, I travel about 200 miles a week for work and couldn't manage that via public transport.
Just about to get my car back from the garage yay... been without it all day, can't wait  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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hey maybe all the ppl who set off damn fireworks for the last week should refrain from doing so before they suggest we stop using our cars......... i wonder how much they destroy the ozone eh? xxx |
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By *obletonMan
over a year ago
A Home Among The Woodland Creatures |
I have barely been behind the wheel of a car since I passed my test 13 years ago.
I had a rule which said if I can walk it in 20 minutes or less, then I'll walk - then I started to enjoy cycling, so the rule turned into, if I can cycle it in 20 minutes, which puts anywhere within a 4-5 mile radius within reach without having to revert to a motor - then I got into motorbikes, and have kept 2 wheels under me pretty much ever since.
Admittedly I do sometimes envy people in boxes when I'm out in the pissing rain with zero visibility and only marginally more grip than that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I had a spell last year where i couldn't drive for 6 months after a car accident. Being without my own transport was a nightmare. I would be up for it though if they improved public transport. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Could I live without my car? Probably if I had to.
Would I want to? No - and I'm not even going to try and justify it.
Just one point though ... we took my daughter and niece to see a concert a while back and decided to do the 'green' thing and go by public transport. We caught a bus to the ferry - ferried across the harbour - walked to the venue - walked back - ferried back to this side of the harbour and walked home. Cost? £16.
Doing the same trip by car would have cost a couple of quid to drive round the harbour and another couple of quid to park. It's a no brainer really innit?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I supose I could live without my car but I would have to use the bus and take a carer with me all the time to get me and the wheelchair on and off the bus. This isn't easy and I hope that you never have to find out. I use the car because I have to, to get around if I didn't I would be housebound and live in just my four walls. I do agree that cars are used willy nilly these days and they shouldn't but if you live in the middle of nowhere you have to use a car |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Could I live without my car? Probably, at a push.
Do I want to live without my car? No, I most certainly do not. I have worked hard for the things I have in my life, and continue to do so, so I shant be selling it any time soon.
You've also slightly forgotten the situation of shift workers. If you think that after a night shift that I want to spend approximately 40 minutes to do a 5 minute (car) trip home by public transport, you are sadly mistaken :o) |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Hmmmm, I was hoping for a bit more of a mixed bag really, but the car seems to win hands down. Even those that could do without it wouldn't.
Well I guess mankind has got where he has because of his ability to use tools. And at the end of the day a car is a tool.
However, this quote confused me, it hints at a car being some sort of reward.
"
Do I want to live without my car? No, I most certainly do not. I have worked hard for the things I have in my life, and continue to do so, so I shant be selling it any time soon.
"
I'm genuinely confused, please explain.
I'm not from the green brigade and I am not about to suggest we all renounce cars. They are a fact of life after all.
Making people think about how they live was the point. Yes I did have to question some responses in order to get past peoples automatic justifactions.
Here's an exmaple of public transport working at a cost with is comparable to using a car.
Walk to Station: free, time 15 mins
Maghull to Liverpool: £3.60, time 20 mins
Liverpool to Stonegate East Sussex: £80, time 4 hours 20 minutes
They are off peak return fares. So I can be nearly on the south coast ( Train terminates at Hastings ) for the price of £83.60. in say 5 and a half hours. They are tickets bought on the day of travel. You can knock another 20 quid of for booking in advance.
Having done the same journey in a car I can tell you its costs 80 quid in petrol, and the best time I have done it in is 6 hours. The worst is 8 and a half. Concentrating all the way hence knackered on arrival.
Ok economy of scale, a full car ( when have you seen one ). Family rail card 60% off child fares and 30% of each adult fare. Travel in comfort walk around have a drink chat use the bog.
I'm sure somebody will do the maths.. if you must.
Barry.
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We have two cars (plus a works van, but thats just for work).
Could I live without a car?
Depends what you class as " living" really.
We live in a very rural area, the nearest town of any size is 10 miles away, and if you want to do decent shopping then you have to travel 30 - 40 miles.
When we were young, we went everywhere by bus, and that included after our first was born.
A simple trip for shopping turned into a nightmare, what with a pram, baby bag etc, and then the shopping too on the way back.
As the kids got older, a car was a godsend, and now having two (neither worth more than £1000, before someone calls us flash lol) means life is much easier.
Like most things, once you have a car, you wonder how you managed without one, and I for one will not be giving mine up without a hell of a fight! |
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"Hmmmm, I was hoping for a bit more of a mixed bag really, but the car seems to win hands down. Even those that could do without it wouldn't.
Well I guess mankind has got where he has because of his ability to use tools. And at the end of the day a car is a tool.
However, this quote confused me, it hints at a car being some sort of reward.
Do I want to live without my car? No, I most certainly do not. I have worked hard for the things I have in my life, and continue to do so, so I shant be selling it any time soon.
I'm genuinely confused, please explain.
I'm not from the green brigade and I am not about to suggest we all renounce cars. They are a fact of life after all.
Making people think about how they live was the point. Yes I did have to question some responses in order to get past peoples automatic justifactions.
Here's an exmaple of public transport working at a cost with is comparable to using a car.
Walk to Station: free, time 15 mins
Maghull to Liverpool: £3.60, time 20 mins
Liverpool to Stonegate East Sussex: £80, time 4 hours 20 minutes
They are off peak return fares. So I can be nearly on the south coast ( Train terminates at Hastings ) for the price of £83.60. in say 5 and a half hours. They are tickets bought on the day of travel. You can knock another 20 quid of for booking in advance.
Having done the same journey in a car I can tell you its costs 80 quid in petrol, and the best time I have done it in is 6 hours. The worst is 8 and a half. Concentrating all the way hence knackered on arrival.
Ok economy of scale, a full car ( when have you seen one ). Family rail card 60% off child fares and 30% of each adult fare. Travel in comfort walk around have a drink chat use the bog.
I'm sure somebody will do the maths.. if you must.
Barry.
"
The trouble is you have used an example of long distance travel, the argument can easily be turned around with an example of a shorter journey.
From where I live to Exeter...
Walk almost a mile to the bus stop, then pay £6.60 return for the 10 mile journey.
Go by car....no mile walk to the bus stop along country lanes without paths...petrol cost around £2.90.
No need to come home before it's dark, a chance to make multiple drop offs of shopping into your car boot, no worrying about catching the once an hour bus......
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If they could get timetables for buses and trains planes etc. to all coincide and allow for smooth transport from one to the other, but even a bus trip for me from Fife to the lower end of Loch Ness to the top and then a bus home was sheer hell....I was meeting a friend and helping him sail his boat from southwest coast to the Shetlands and lots of us did stages with him to crew. It wasn't easy but we all managed to help crew his boat without leaving our cars abandoned at various carparks for days on end.
Not impossible but expensive and inconvenient. |
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By *eizvollWoman
over a year ago
in my own little world :-) |
"Here's an exmaple of public transport working at a cost with is comparable to using a car.
Walk to Station: free, time 15 mins
Maghull to Liverpool: £3.60, time 20 mins
Liverpool to Stonegate East Sussex: £80, time 4 hours 20 minutes
They are off peak return fares. So I can be nearly on the south coast ( Train terminates at Hastings ) for the price of £83.60. in say 5 and a half hours. They are tickets bought on the day of travel. You can knock another 20 quid of for booking in advance.
Having done the same journey in a car I can tell you its costs 80 quid in petrol, and the best time I have done it in is 6 hours. The worst is 8 and a half. Concentrating all the way hence knackered on arrival.
Ok economy of scale, a full car ( when have you seen one ). Family rail card 60% off child fares and 30% of each adult fare. Travel in comfort walk around have a drink chat use the bog.
I'm sure somebody will do the maths.. if you must.
Barry.
"
I'd love to know wher you got the Liverpool to Stonegate quote from - and you don't mention that it involves at least 2 changes. The quickest I found is 5 hours 6 mins - and you're still about an hour away from the coast!!!! |
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By *iewMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Angus & Findhorn |
"Train from Exeter to London Waterloo...
£118.60 (Just paid for a ticket) return.
494 mile road journey (round trip)...£6 a gallon petrol x 10 Gallons comes to around £60 in petrol."
plus parking in London tho..... and that is very expensive Jane ... still be overall cheaper by car x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Maybe the other point is that people like where they live, they may not want to move, they may have lost their job, and when they got a new one, it meant commuting or the firm they worked for, relocated?
I live in gloucester, alot of people commute from the forest to either here or cheltenham as their is little work in the forest of dean. Some i guess come in by bus but most drive, maybe car sharing is the answer, in fact when i worked at Zurich in cheltenham, thats what they operated, everyone that car shared, took turns to drive  I would never have moved to cheltenham though as i couldnt afford to move and it was only a temporary contract |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I have barely been behind the wheel of a car since I passed my test 13 years ago.
I had a rule which said if I can walk it in 20 minutes or less, then I'll walk - then I started to enjoy cycling, so the rule turned into, if I can cycle it in 20 minutes, which puts anywhere within a 4-5 mile radius within reach without having to revert to a motor - then I got into motorbikes, and have kept 2 wheels under me pretty much ever since.
Admittedly I do sometimes envy people in boxes when I'm out in the pissing rain with zero visibility and only marginally more grip than that."
Must admit last year when i had no money and couldnt afford to put petrol in my car, i walked to work, an hour there and an hour back, thoroughly enjoyed it, got fitter, and managed to get it to 45 mins, if only people would get off the bloody pavement, im sure i could have done it much quicker |
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Without motor vehicles most organ transplants wouldn’t happen as there would be no transport for the organs.
Without motor vehicles we could not even try to compete in the world market. We could not import or export goods, food etc.
Without motor vehicles dialling 999 would be a very different experience.
Without motor vehicles many people who are elderly or disabled would be stranded with no access to healthcare and support… and die.
Without motor vehicles more new born babies would die.
Without motor vehicles a lot more than people first think would change.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am going by train this time as my car is going in for a new driveshaft (whatever that is)"
it connects the gearbox to the wheel, so kind of important, without one the car wont move, so not even remotly sexy, unless you have a very odd fetish |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Probably, but it would make my job kinda difficult.
I cannot imagine carrying 300m of copper cable, my tools and all my test gear on the back of a pushbike ... |
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By *iewMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Angus & Findhorn |
"Probably, but it would make my job kinda difficult.
I cannot imagine carrying 300m of copper cable, my tools and all my test gear on the back of a pushbike ... "
lightweight........ Readybrek in the morning and you are sorted. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Probably, but it would make my job kinda difficult.
I cannot imagine carrying 300m of copper cable, my tools and all my test gear on the back of a pushbike ...
lightweight........ Readybrek in the morning and you are sorted. "
Pmsl and maybe a small trailer gor my bike |
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By *iewMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Angus & Findhorn |
"Probably, but it would make my job kinda difficult.
I cannot imagine carrying 300m of copper cable, my tools and all my test gear on the back of a pushbike ...
lightweight........ Readybrek in the morning and you are sorted.
Pmsl and maybe a small trailer gor my bike "
thats my boy...... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Do I want to live without my car? No, I most certainly do not. I have worked hard for the things I have in my life, and continue to do so, so I shant be selling it any time soon.
I'm genuinely confused, please explain.
"
I would have thought that it was relatively self explanitory but nonetheless, I shall endeavour to explain.
I can afford a car, so I own a car. It offers me the luxury of being able to go wherever I want, whenever I want and with whomever I want. I don't have to wait around for public transport nor end up sitting next to the local loon and or soap dodger.
It's a luxury, but as I said, I work hard for my luxurys and for someone to (effectively) tell me that I should shun said luxurys and use a (what I consider to be) lesser form of transport sicks more than a little in my throat.
Clearer? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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When I lived in Central London, I did not need a car and used public transport all the time.
However, I could not get around with ease when I relocated to a town in Norfolk and then Wiltshire, where public transport as well-establish/integrated as big cities. |
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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
"Why not just move house to be closer to your job, then travel to see friends / relatives at the weekend. "
So every time someone gets a new job they are obliged to sell their house and buy one near their work??
Has your estate agency business not recovered from the recession then?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think that families moving further away from each other geographically, because of the advent of cheaper motoring can sometimes be a good thing.
And I don't even have a Mother-in-Law |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I'd love to know wher you got the Liverpool to Stonegate quote from - and you don't mention that it involves at least 2 changes. The quickest I found is 5 hours 6 mins - and you're still about an hour away from the coast!!!! "
They allow a 1 hour 20 minutes to get from Euston to London bridge. It takes 20 minutes. How do I know. I've been doing this journey every other week for over a year. C'mon you seriously underestimate me, as if I'd leave a gaping hole like that in my argument. |
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By *eizvollWoman
over a year ago
in my own little world :-) |
"
I'd love to know wher you got the Liverpool to Stonegate quote from - and you don't mention that it involves at least 2 changes. The quickest I found is 5 hours 6 mins - and you're still about an hour away from the coast!!!!
They allow a 1 hour 20 minutes to get from Euston to London bridge. It takes 20 minutes. How do I know. I've been doing this journey every other week for over a year. C'mon you seriously underestimate me, as if I'd leave a gaping hole like that in my argument. "
You've still got to get on the right train tho - and there aren't that many that stop at Stonegate |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Go by car....no mile walk to the bus stop along country lanes without paths...petrol cost around £2.90.
"
Factor in insurance, tax, servicing and your weekly payments on the car or the pro rata cost of the car over the time you own it. Not forgetting how much you get shafted whenit breaks down once ayear ( at least ) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We lived in a cardboard box and it didn't even have a lid. We longed for a blue recyling bag to keep the rain out.
Naaa have not run a car for 5 years now. Got really annoyed at posts asking for car drivers/owners, I think that's a cheek to expect. Got a job which I can either walk or bike to. Much happier in general without a car and more disposable income too. Miss it sometimes on a summers day if I fancy the seaside tho. But hey .... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Go by car....no mile walk to the bus stop along country lanes without paths...petrol cost around £2.90.
Factor in insurance, tax, servicing and your weekly payments on the car or the pro rata cost of the car over the time you own it. Not forgetting how much you get shafted whenit breaks down once ayear ( at least )"
Hence i persuaded son to be a mechanic as opposed to a chef |
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By *im53Man
over a year ago
Boldon |
"I could certainly live without one,,,,, but I much prefer not having too, and although I don't particularly like cars... I like having one….. erm make that two actually..... Noooo, not new ones,,,,....pah.... one of em is 9 yr old the other is 41 this year,,,, yep forty bleed'in one...I was given it, and I’ve now owned it for 16 yr and before ya start, I ain’t some sorta flash-git having two cars, cuz neither of them are worth the price of a rag-mans balloon.... ahem… and I’m not a tight-wad either … eek, honestly….. I just believe in making things last, that all…. "
ohhh that makes my 1980 escort seem faily new lol
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The car wins the a to b of life in the commercial world.
But what keeps us all going is our 2 legs because you can't get a car in a shopping mall or hospital a univercity.
Or the pedestrianised developments in city centres.
This is where we fall short of the village society where you had uncles and aunts down the road as it were.
You could always stop and ask a question to any of them.
No can you do that in your shopping malls etc .
Have i gone too deep? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don't like driving - never have, but at one stage I had three children under eight that needed to be in school/nursery and I had to be in work by 9, so little option.
I drove everywhere until 2002 when I started having trouble with my eyes. For six months I lost my sight, and it was touch and go whether it would return or not. Having to take public transport was the worst thing in my life at that point (goes to show how little I had to trouble me if that was the worst thing )!
After years of treatment, getting the all clear from the neurologist and passing the field of vision tests I can drive...but my confidence has gone when it comes to driving, and when the sun is bright my eyes blur.
I wouldn't dream of getting behind the wheel in case I caused an accident, even though there's nothing stopping me from driving.
I live in London - everywhere is accessible by public transport. Shopping can be ordered online, mini cab offices are on every street, I wouldn't drive if going out as I'd like to drink, there's no need for me to have a car - so yes, I can live without one! |
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"
Have i gone too deep?"
Not deep enough… you’re selective skimming and cherry picking nostalgia.
You are forgetting it was the industrial revolution which separated many families as people moved away from their rural communities. Whilst communities exist in cities, they evolved. People didn’t move to squalid over cramped city dwellings because they had cars… they moved because they didn’t have cars but needed to find work. They left their aunt and uncle back in the village. Communities continue to evolve… just look at the internet. People who don’t know the name of the person who lives next door but one, yet talk and feel a connection with randoms from all over the country. Should we be giving up this as well as the car in order to rebuild communication with people in the street?
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"
Go by car....no mile walk to the bus stop along country lanes without paths...petrol cost around £2.90.
Factor in insurance, tax, servicing and your weekly payments on the car or the pro rata cost of the car over the time you own it. Not forgetting how much you get shafted whenit breaks down once ayear ( at least )"
None of that applies to me as my company provides me with a car which I need to do my job which enables me to pay taxes etc etc - what are your thoughts on the aviation industry? Would you prefer people not to fly either? Cars are an integral part of society like it or not. Z |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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None of that applies to me as my company provides me with a car which I need to do my job which enables me to pay taxes etc etc - what are your thoughts on the aviation industry? Would you prefer people not to fly either? Cars are an integral part of society like it or not. Z"
I agree cars are an integral part of society. But what a society. People queuing in car parks at supermarkets etc, so they can be 10 yards from the door, when 30 yards away there are spaces. Is that not odd? Please dont defend them on the basis of "its raining", "they're old", "they have kids", because that may apply but you know it doesn't to most of the offenders.
As for Aviation, I dont have any arguments for or against. My god, without them how would we be able to take our precious two week break in the sun that we work towards all year.
Barry.
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By *umourCouple
over a year ago
Rushden |
Ok actual figures for last year on my 5 year old Jag X-Type 2.2D Sport Estate, based on 30.000 miles in the year and per mile..
• Average 40mpg @ £1.21per ltr. 13.7p
• Insurance @ £250 per year Less that 1p
• Road Fund Licence @ £150 per year. Less than 1/2p
• Full set of tyres @ £280. Less than 1p
• MOT @ £35 Negligible
• Servicing x 2 @ £150 average Just 1p
• Depreciation at £1000 for year (audited) Just over 3p
That is a total of just under 21p per mile, so for a round trip to my mothers house in Cornwall from Northants (675 miles) £141.75 Train fares booked in advance would be a minimum of £180. Both car and train are 7 ½ hour journeys but we would have three changes to make on the train, carrying bags and stuff! Then Taxi to the station that is 6 miles away.. Expensive trip either way, but the car wins hands down.
Short journeys fare no better. Trip to Wellingborough to shop. Bus return trip is £3.40 per person, so £6.80. Car for the 5 mile journey at an inflated £0.25p per mile? £2.50 and we get to put all the shopping in the back!!!
No matter which way you cut it, car travel is way cheaper and much more convenient. Public transport cannot even hope to match car ownership. To the OP… Could I do without my car? Nope! I have to travel for work and your comment that we don’t have to choose a job that we have to travel is no help! Someone would have to do it.
I know that this was just a question, but there are really people out there who believe we should price everyone off the roads. That we should all go back to the times when only the privileged few would be able to travel as a matter of course. When a trip to the seaside was a once a year occurrence for all the family, cases and all.
Allied, but slightly off topic. When I was a lad at school, we were told that there would be climate problems, not from cars but from the cutting down of the rain forests. They are our “regulator” and should have been left intact. Now we are being told that it is our CO2 emissions (it is) that cause climate change, but if we still had the Rain Forests, it would be a good deal easier to solve.
Also noted, your stance on air travel!
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I don't even have a driver's permit so yes I could and do live without a car. Not the easiest with 3 under the age of 5 but at leastboth my son's school and the twins' preschool are in walking distance from my house, a coop up the hill and good bus links,which are slowly converting to all that you can get a pushchair on. not always easy, like days like today when it was frickin cold..lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Wonders what Dogging would be called without cars being involved,,,,…. Oh, I know,,,,, yud probs ,,,, call it “Dogging”,,, Duh….. silly me….. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I cant argue with the figures. Yes car travel is cheaper and more importantly convenient. I think the convenience argument is what irks me so much, so many people forget where convenience ends and laziness starts. And its not just physical laziness.
The cost of public transport will continue to rise as companies struggle to compete with cars, so Its a self fullfilling prophecy.
I heard/read somewhere that it was a recent ( 25 years ago ) prime ministers decision that the UK would follow the American private car ownership model and hence road building was favoured above public transport infrastructure. So at the end of the day we had no choice in the matter anyway .
Barry.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I cant argue with the figures. Yes car travel is cheaper and more importantly convenient. I think the convenience argument is what irks me so much, so many people forget where convenience ends and laziness starts. And its not just physical laziness.
The cost of public transport will continue to rise as companies struggle to compete with cars, so Its a self fullfilling prophecy.
I heard/read somewhere that it was a recent ( 25 years ago ) prime ministers decision that the UK would follow the American private car ownership model and hence road building was favoured above public transport infrastructure. So at the end of the day we had no choice in the matter anyway .
Barry.
"
I don't know where you get your facts on a car being cheaper than public transport. Some how i doubt it is though. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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My final post on the topic, somebody mentioned Air travel.
I'm not going off topic, I think its a good analogy actualy so bear with me.
Air travel ( holidaying ) has only just recently become mass market, within our generation even. And already people nearly class it as a necessity.
Why is that? Ok its relatively affordable, Yes it guarantees sun. However, Did our parents do it, did it stop them having fun and you with them?
Whats changed so much in one generation. ( generalising here as some peoples parents went abroad ).
Are we choosing the holiday abroad because its all thats available, or do we want the holiday abroad above what else is on offer. Its an analogy, so please dont respond on the holiday abroad topic. I merely want suggest a similarity to to the early years of mass car ownership.
That is all.
Barry.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Wonders what Dogging would be called without cars being involved,,,,…. Oh, I know,,,,, yud probs ,,,, call it “Dogging”,,, Duh….. silly me….. "
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
I can absolutely see both sides of the arguement here....
Living on the edge of a few cities and towns.... it is easily for me to use public transport to get to work, in fact probably as quick and economical....
but if i lived out rurally like Redhot who are probably no further then 20 miles from me... it is like living in a different world, and I fully understand why the need for a car is that much greater
anyway when i pass my test and get my ecologically sound prius... I am driving everywhere!!! lol |
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"My final post on the topic, somebody mentioned Air travel.
I'm not going off topic, I think its a good analogy actualy so bear with me.
Air travel ( holidaying ) has only just recently become mass market, within our generation even. And already people nearly class it as a necessity.
Why is that? Ok its relatively affordable, Yes it guarantees sun. However, Did our parents do it, did it stop them having fun and you with them?
Whats changed so much in one generation. ( generalising here as some peoples parents went abroad ).
Are we choosing the holiday abroad because its all thats available, or do we want the holiday abroad above what else is on offer. Its an analogy, so please dont respond on the holiday abroad topic. I merely want suggest a similarity to to the early years of mass car ownership.
That is all.
Barry.
"
Actually I wasn't really thinking so much of holidays with regards to flying - more from a commercial point of _iew - but if people want to go to other countries for a holiday where's the harm in that? A lot of countries rely very heavily on tourism to survive. Stuff can't be uninvented or taken away from people if some deem it to be unfit - Pol Pot springs to mind! My car doesn't make me lazy - it is a neccesity! Z |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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" Stuff can't be uninvented or taken away from people if some deem it to be unfit - Pol Pot springs to mind! My car doesn't make me lazy - it is a neccesity! Z"
Most people seem to have taken this is the way intended, i.e. thought provoking, not provocative. I have not advocated changing anything.
What's Pol Pot?
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" Stuff can't be uninvented or taken away from people if some deem it to be unfit - Pol Pot springs to mind! My car doesn't make me lazy - it is a neccesity! Z
Most people seem to have taken this is the way intended, i.e. thought provoking, not provocative. I have not advocated changing anything.
What's Pol Pot?
"
Tell me that you're joking - please - Google the guy - you'll find it enlightening! Z |
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Sorry Barry, just reread your OP - and the thread has been thought provoking - I am sure that loads of people are now considering moving home to be closer to where they work so that they don't need to drive. Z |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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try humpping a great tool box on a bus/bike to get to next job tried it once ,never again cars a must and anyway some swinging clubs a to far to just nip there for a night out aaaaaah |
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" Stuff can't be uninvented or taken away from people if some deem it to be unfit - Pol Pot springs to mind! My car doesn't make me lazy - it is a neccesity! Z
Most people seem to have taken this is the way intended, i.e. thought provoking, not provocative. I have not advocated changing anything.
What's Pol Pot?
Tell me that you're joking - please - Google the guy - you'll find it enlightening! Z"
2.5 million people's families might just remember him. |
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" Stuff can't be uninvented or taken away from people if some deem it to be unfit - Pol Pot springs to mind! My car doesn't make me lazy - it is a neccesity! Z
Most people seem to have taken this is the way intended, i.e. thought provoking, not provocative. I have not advocated changing anything.
What's Pol Pot?
Tell me that you're joking - please - Google the guy - you'll find it enlightening! Z
2.5 million people's families might just remember him. "
I am stunned that any one doesn't know who Pol Pot is! I'm going for a little lie down! Z |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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both of our cars are broking down and its driving us crazy as we feel very coped in its great espicaslly as i work at 6am and walking not an option during the winter. |
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By *umourCouple
over a year ago
Rushden |
" I am stunned that any one doesn't know who Pol Pot is! I'm going for a little lie down! Z"
That is a shock that Pol Pot has been forgotten in so little time after pain, suffering and hardship the regime casued.
On a lighter note, I need to lay down too.. Shift over |
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By *umourCouple
over a year ago
Rushden |
"I don't know where you get your facts on a car being cheaper than public transport. Some how i doubt it is though."
Read my post a couple above Barry's... Actual running costs of my car over the last year. If you are one of the people who were duped into buying a new car on Scrappage, then those figures won't apply as you would have to count VAT as depreciation and also the wack that a new car loses apart from VAT!
On a car that has lost the largest part of it's value (Mine was £27.000 new and is now worth around £7.000 I paid £8.000) The depreciation is much less.
The train figures are cheapest I could find and that was NOT when I would have travelled.. That would have cost £324!
The bus far is just the normal bus fare for a trip from Rushden to Wellingborough and I have increased the car "pence per mile" figure to account for shorter journeys. But with the bus, I didn't take into account walking to the bus stop, waiting about for the bus and carrying bags of shopping on the return journey!!! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Sorry Barry, just reread your OP - and the thread has been thought provoking - I am sure that loads of people are now considering moving home to be closer to where they work so that they don't need to drive. Z"
Have you understood my confusion in the orginal post. To me how people use cars doesn't make sense. Its car first, everything else follows.
Instead you have chosen to goad me, thinking perhaps that I'm some anti car greenpeace activist. Have you presented a good case like others. Has my confusion been clarified.. No. I'm just angry with the same lack of attachment to a car. Hopefully I'll piss somebody off later and they will feel angry too.
I would swear but I wouldn't give you the satisfaction.
Barry. |
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"Sorry Barry, just reread your OP - and the thread has been thought provoking - I am sure that loads of people are now considering moving home to be closer to where they work so that they don't need to drive. Z
Have you understood my confusion in the orginal post. To me how people use cars doesn't make sense. Its car first, everything else follows.
Instead you have chosen to goad me, thinking perhaps that I'm some anti car greenpeace activist. Have you presented a good case like others. Has my confusion been clarified.. No. I'm just angry with the same lack of attachment to a car. Hopefully I'll piss somebody off later and they will feel angry too.
I would swear but I wouldn't give you the satisfaction.
Barry."
I'm sad that you're feeling angry and I haven't been goading anyone! And I honestly didn't think you had any confusion in your original post - it didn't make sense but that's quite a different matter and it has created some good points with regards to car usage. A car is a means to an end gets people from A to B - it's that simple nand stating that people should move to be closer to work is an absolute nonsense - in my opinion of course. I'm not angry or confused and have no with to argue but when you post on a forum you need to be prepared to get comments that differ you what you think. The clue is in the name - forum. Anyway, enjoy the rest of your day and drive carefully! Z |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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" but when you post on a forum you need to be prepared to get comments that differ you what you think. The clue is in the name - forum. Anyway, enjoy the rest of your day and drive carefully! Z"
The majority of the comments differ to what I think, however they chose to present them in an constructive manner. Yours are not in my _iew constructive, more perhaps agressive. Your use of the exlamation mark adds an intended / untended snarl at the end. I could be mistaken.
Plus the original question was "why dont" people move house, not "they should". A response along the lines of, "I like to live away from the city because of xyz" would imply a choice and thought. Responses of the type "I love my car and you cant take it away from me" are perhaps my justification for starting the thread in the first place.
So can the forum vote on who thinks the following posts were indeed meant to goad rather than communicate information.
"I totally agree with you, lets all sell our cars and get a horse and trap each - there's a little thing called 'progress' that goes on all the time, if you don't agree with cars - sell yours!"
" None of that applies to me as my company provides me with a car which I need to do my job which enables me to pay taxes etc etc - what are your thoughts on the aviation industry? Would you prefer people not to fly either? Cars are an integral part of society like it or not. Z"
"Actually I wasn't really thinking so much of holidays with regards to flying - more from a commercial point of _iew - but if people want to go to other countries for a holiday where's the harm in that? A lot of countries rely very heavily on tourism to survive. Stuff can't be uninvented or taken away from people if some deem it to be unfit - Pol Pot springs to mind! My car doesn't make me lazy - it is a neccesity! Z"
"Sorry Barry, just reread your OP - and the thread has been thought provoking - I am sure that loads of people are now considering moving home to be closer to where they work so that they don't need to drive. Z"
C'mon somebody back me up, dont make me think my understanding of punctuation and the english language is flawed.
If it is, then I will happily never post again because I obviously lack the language skills to understand what is being said.
Barry.
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Barry, you are obviously quite sensitive and I apologise unreservedly if my comments have upset you, there was no intention to do so - discussions and debates are good and people have varying opinions, my exclamation marks were not meant as a snarl - it was intended to lighten the comment. I think perhaps you look a little too deeply into such things? Anyway, I hope you're feeling happier and wish you all the very best. Z |
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By *umourCouple
over a year ago
Rushden |
Zoe.. I think you are too soft, you said (typed) nothing that was offensive or even rude! You just stated an opinion, but because this guy bleats, you say sorry?
I think there was the implication that people should move to enable them to get rid of their cars and for someone who thinks it is good to be able to fly, I found a bit strange. But he is entitled to his opinion too
I am not so forgiving! So OP.. Pick ya toys up and don't throw em out of the pram again!!! This kitchen can get very hot, if it's too much for you, perhaps you should stay in the dining room! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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hmmm bad spelling.
What I meant to say was..
The word is tenacious, I'm the same with any hit a run merchant. too many people get away with dropping one liners for my liking.
Barry. |
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"Zoe.. I think you are too soft, you said (typed) nothing that was offensive or even rude! You just stated an opinion, but because this guy bleats, you say sorry?
I think there was the implication that people should move to enable them to get rid of their cars and for someone who thinks it is good to be able to fly, I found a bit strange. But he is entitled to his opinion too
I am not so forgiving! So OP.. Pick ya toys up and don't throw em out of the pram again!!! This kitchen can get very hot, if it's too much for you, perhaps you should stay in the dining room! "
Thanks Rumour, I felt that this was getting out of hand and although I know I did nothing out of order, wanted to retain my dignity! (! meant as it was intended) - Anyway, I got confused and thought it was Thursday yesterday! lol - you know what I mean. Take care, Z |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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i could...although i believe the public transport could be better in places,and cheaper than it is at present..my car is an older one like a previous poster, it is still going strong after 29 years, i'd like to cycle more, but the roads are hardly safe for bicycles these days...i do enjoy a good walk...i said Walk.. |
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It's a shame the thread turned bitchy, but I think the OP posted it in the hope of being in the position of taking the higher ground.
I had a very dear friend who went all 'Save the world', she was at one point a lovely girl who was happy go lucky.
Then she married a vegetarian and became one herself, nothing wrong in that...freedom of choice and all that, but it progressed to strict Veganism and that is the point that she then started to impose her own ideals on her friends and colleagues.
It wasn't long before everyone became a target for her sermons on the evils of using animals for food and clothing, she would question everything in my home as to it's ethical origins and our long friendship began to break down.
When I first started imporing Organic, Vegan friendly chocolate I gave her some as a birthday gift...she went on to lecture me regarding the paper wrapper and how many trees it may have cost to produce it.
I learnt from that....when someone gets a bee in their bonnet about their personal crusade on saving the planet they cannot see the other side of the argument. |
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By *umourCouple
over a year ago
Rushden |
"Zoe.. I think you are too soft, you said (typed) nothing that was offensive or even rude! You just stated an opinion, but because this guy bleats, you say sorry?
I think there was the implication that people should move to enable them to get rid of their cars and for someone who thinks it is good to be able to fly, I found a bit strange. But he is entitled to his opinion too
I am not so forgiving! So OP.. Pick ya toys up and don't throw em out of the pram again!!! This kitchen can get very hot, if it's too much for you, perhaps you should stay in the dining room!
Thanks Rumour, I felt that this was getting out of hand and although I know I did nothing out of order, wanted to retain my dignity! (! meant as it was intended) - Anyway, I got confused and thought it was Thursday yesterday! lol - you know what I mean. Take care, Z"
We have never seen you come even close to losing your dignity. But fully understand what you mean. x |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
I learnt from that....when someone gets a bee in their bonnet about their personal crusade on saving the planet they cannot see the other side of the argument."
I think you may have misunderstood my motivation in posting. I was trying to point out the social impact of car ownership. The environmental effects are sombeody elses bandwagon. I really di think I had an interesting insight into other aspects of the impact cars have. The Anitsocial behaviour point didn;t ven get a mention and yet that is probably the one I think is most valid. The point about drivinf to work was just an observation on something I thought very odd. I thought people had maybe lost sight of the time they are wasting which could be spent at home with their kids or relaxing. Not forgetting the freedom to socialise with collegues. No environmental sentiments to be seen.
I'm a realist, I drive a car when I have to, but I choose my job so that I do not have to drive.
I think you have hit the nail on the head and the reason for the descent into bitchyness. I guess most people thought this was an environmental crusade.
So to those people that thought I was a loony, read the original post again with the social impact aspect in mind and think on that.
Barry. |
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