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the woman who went on the run with her child

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By *or Fox Sake OP Couple over a year ago

Thornaby

Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None.

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By *lassyandadventurousMan over a year ago

England and Wales

You cant possibly know the full story...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You cant possibly know the full story..."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As a parent who has had to fight to see his kids you never know the full reason behind such actions. I moved back in so I could still see mine. And despite a court agreement my ex still manipulates the situation.

I live for my children and I would do anything to continue to see them!

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By *or Fox Sake OP Couple over a year ago

Thornaby

"You cant possibly know the full story..."

The judge does.

She denied access.

She made herself a threat to the child to the point where the judge removed the child from her.

Anything less than prison for her is a copy out.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You cant possibly know the full story...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You cant possibly know the full story...

The judge does.

She denied access.

She made herself a threat to the child to the point where the judge removed the child from her.

Anything less than prison for her is a copy out."

How do you know the judge knows the full story ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Very quick to judge and a very one sided opinion, we are all entitled to our own and my opinion is I disagree with your opinion

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By *or Fox Sake OP Couple over a year ago

Thornaby

"You cant possibly know the full story...

Which bit of "the judge does" are you struggling with?

Send her down so there is a clear message to people like her who indulge in child abuse.

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By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None."
. These comments seem a bit harsh . She is the child's mother and I am sure that she is only trying to do what she believes is best for her daughter . It would be a complete waste of the tax payers money to send her to prison. What is totally wrong is that child custody hearings at court are held in private and the public do not know the basis of the decision made . Her family fully support her . It is hardly appropriate to say that someone kidnapped their own child . Why do you use the word vermin.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I believe everything I read or see on TV.

I believe that the law is clear-cut & as perfect as the organisation whom police it, - & the politicians who write it, for that matter.

I am a law abiding citizen enriched by it all.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"You cant possibly know the full story...

Which bit of "the judge does" are you struggling with?

Send her down so there is a clear message to people like her who indulge in child abuse.

How did she indulge in child abuse?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I dont no the full story and i dont have children, i can only imagine why she ran away with her child.... If somebody said to me we are taking your child from you and placing he/she with somebody elts id be distraught and try everything in my power to be with my child! If that means running away so be it.... Im certainly not saying what she has done is right not at all but the thought of losing someone you love and being placed with someone elts will make you think mad things and the possibility of putting thoes mad things into action! X

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'd run with my boys too if anyone tried to take them from me

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd run with my boys too if anyone tried to take them from me "

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By *ack-danielsCouple over a year ago

Atherstone

And the british judicial system is spot on with its judgements everytime? I think not . Lets wait for the full story to come out before we hang this young desperate mother for wanting to be with her child.

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By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

"You cant possibly know the full story...

Which bit of "the judge does" are you struggling with?

Send her down so there is a clear message to people like her who indulge in child abuse.

"
. I am surprised that you state that thr judge knows all the facts . He would only have access to the information as presented in Court and this would be dependent on all parties presenting all the relevant information. . What if either party withheld information or if there were professional witnesses who just presented biased information in order to earn fees . As these cases are held in private , how can the public be expected to have any confidence in the judges decision..As long as the judge gets their salary and pension , they probably are indifferent to their decisions and the impact on family life . Do we know why the father and mother split up?.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None."

How about if we burn her at the stake, keelhaul her, tar and feather her and have her hung drawn and quartered.

Then we can put her head on a spike at traitors gate.

Would that suffice?

If the child was removed from her care and custody for its protection perhaps the mother needs a bit of help.

Here's a novel idea, give her some help.

I like many others do not know the full story and probably never will.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None.. These comments seem a bit harsh . She is the child's mother and I am sure that she is only trying to do what she believes is best for her daughter . It would be a complete waste of the tax payers money to send her to prison. What is totally wrong is that child custody hearings at court are held in private and the public do not know the basis of the decision made . Her family fully support her . It is hardly appropriate to say that someone kidnapped their own child . Why do you use the word vermin. "

Actually her family do not fully support her as her mother has spoken out against what she has done.

We do NOT know the full story. However the courts DO and that is why they made the decision they did.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

The courts don't know the full story. They know the story that they have been told.

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By *eerobCouple over a year ago

solihull

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None."

You can guarentee that if it had been the father that had done this he would be slagged off left right and centre with no sympathy. Its virtually impossible for the father to get access even with a problem with the mother, so for the dad to be given access there must be somthing seriously wrong with allowing her to have custody.. Oh yes shes proved shes a lyer, has no respect for authrity/legal system. Theres little sympathy for the father by some posters on the thread, or in the media, it would be the other way round if she was male,shed hide behind and manipulate the legal system if it was all going her way.

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By *or Fox Sake OP Couple over a year ago

Thornaby

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

Because she's vermin. She is happy to destroy her child's relationship with his father because she thinks she knows best.

Send her down. Just as any father would be sent down if he did the same.

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By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None."
. Having re read this post , I can only assume it is a wind up. . If it was meant to be taken seriously , you would hardly call the mother vermin

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By *or Fox Sake OP Couple over a year ago

Thornaby

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None.

Nail on the head. Well said.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Everything things 100% correct then because it went before a judge.

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By *or Fox Sake OP Couple over a year ago

Thornaby

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None.. Having re read this post , I can only assume it is a wind up. . If it was meant to be taken seriously , you would hardly call the mother vermin "

No. She truely is vermin.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

I'd also like to ask....if the mother taking the child from her father is likened to child abuse by the op, why is it not considered the same by taking the child away from the mother as punishment?

All you seem to be doing is advocating punishing the child for something they didn't do.

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By *eerobCouple over a year ago

solihull

"The courts don't know the full story. They know the story that they have been told. "

Well perhaps that is the case but if you are male you still have a 99.5% chabce of not getting proper access, its about time the boot was on the other foot.

I hope her supporters would have sung her praises still had she, or if she has, hurt her child pysically or mentally.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None.. Having re read this post , I can only assume it is a wind up. . If it was meant to be taken seriously , you would hardly call the mother vermin

No. She truely is vermin."

Do you know her personaly OP, or is your _iew of her based on what you've read in the papers and on tv?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None.. Having re read this post , I can only assume it is a wind up. . If it was meant to be taken seriously , you would hardly call the mother vermin

No. She truely is vermin."

Why is she... ? Maybe she had good reason.. I've not read or even seen the original story but going on the run with your child is not something any parent would do lightly..

But I know a few that have moved away and hidden from the men for good reason.. And I also don't see how just running away is child abuse.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None.. Having re read this post , I can only assume it is a wind up. . If it was meant to be taken seriously , you would hardly call the mother vermin

No. She truely is vermin."

Get the feeling your the type that if the mother had given the child up easily you'd be saying what kind of mother doesn't fight for her children

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Look away ! there is no misogyny here !

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By *or Fox Sake OP Couple over a year ago

Thornaby

"I'd also like to ask....if the mother taking the child from her father is likened to child abuse by the op, why is it not considered the same by taking the child away from the mother as punishment?

All you seem to be doing is advocating punishing the child for something they didn't do. "

The child was put in the care of the father to prevent further emotional abuse.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You cant possibly know the full story...

Which bit of "the judge does" are you struggling with?

Send her down so there is a clear message to people like her who indulge in child abuse.

This was all over the news at work yesterday. Its hardly child abuse, that is a completely different subject. Yes, she did the wrong thing in taking her child but because she loved him and wanted to be with him that was her reason. Im not saying I agree but as a mother I understand why.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You cant possibly know the full story...

Which bit of "the judge does" are you struggling with?

Send her down so there is a clear message to people like her who indulge in child abuse.

you and I will never know the bond that that mother & daughter may have and if you separate them; in years to come both will remember and eventually be together again

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By *eerobCouple over a year ago

solihull

"I'd also like to ask....if the mother taking the child from her father is likened to child abuse by the op, why is it not considered the same by taking the child away from the mother as punishment?

All you seem to be doing is advocating punishing the child for something they didn't do. "
I

Have you ever thought the child may not want to be with her, is frightened by her and he is being punished by not being allowed to be with his father. A lot of mothers dont mind 'punishing' the kid by not letting them have contact with their father.

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By *or Fox Sake OP Couple over a year ago

Thornaby

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None.. Having re read this post , I can only assume it is a wind up. . If it was meant to be taken seriously , you would hardly call the mother vermin

No. She truely is vermin.

Why is she... ? Maybe she had good reason.. I've not read or even seen the original story but going on the run with your child is not something any parent would do lightly..

But I know a few that have moved away and hidden from the men for good reason.. And I also don't see how just running away is child abuse."

She didn't do it lightly. She'd built up to it by denying access. By lying to the courts.

If a dad did this he'd have been hunted down like a rabid dog. You'd have seen police combing fields and searching barns.

Instead we get "poor Mum needs support".

She is a kidnapper.

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

I'm assuming the OP and people supporting the OP also believe that men who spirit their children away after custody has been awarded to the mother are also vermin. I mean, there should be equal opportunity disgust, shouldn't there? Even though this situation happens a hell of a lot more than the mother disappearing, shown by the fact that fathers kidnapping children is so common now the cases barely register with the media or the police these days.

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By *eerobCouple over a year ago

solihull

"You cant possibly know the full story...

Which bit of "the judge does" are you struggling with?

Send her down so there is a clear message to people like her who indulge in child abuse.

you and I will never know the bond that that mother & daughter may have and if you separate them; in years to come both will remember and eventually be together again"

So a father does not have the same rights or are not allowed as deep a bond as a mother. Ridiculous sexist attitude.

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By *or Fox Sake OP Couple over a year ago

Thornaby

"I'd also like to ask....if the mother taking the child from her father is likened to child abuse by the op, why is it not considered the same by taking the child away from the mother as punishment?

All you seem to be doing is advocating punishing the child for something they didn't do. I

Parental Alienation Syndrome in which one parent demonizes the other to prevent the child wanting to have access.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd also like to ask....if the mother taking the child from her father is likened to child abuse by the op, why is it not considered the same by taking the child away from the mother as punishment?

All you seem to be doing is advocating punishing the child for something they didn't do.

The child was put in the care of the father to prevent further emotional abuse.

So not seeing mum isn't emotional?

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By *or Fox Sake OP Couple over a year ago

Thornaby

"You cant possibly know the full story...

Which bit of "the judge does" are you struggling with?

Send her down so there is a clear message to people like her who indulge in child abuse.

you and I will never know the bond that that mother & daughter may have and if you separate them; in years to come both will remember and eventually be together again

So a father does not have the same rights or are not allowed as deep a bond as a mother. Ridiculous sexist attitude. "

Steady. You'll be called a misogynist.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd also like to ask....if the mother taking the child from her father is likened to child abuse by the op, why is it not considered the same by taking the child away from the mother as punishment?

All you seem to be doing is advocating punishing the child for something they didn't do. I

It is also not always punishment. I don't agree with preventing access to either parent unless the child is at Risk...

I've seen cases where the mother has run away from a violent abusive partner but domestic violence is often kept secret... And because they kept it secret the mother then finds themselves fighting to keep the child they were protecting. So it isn't always cut and dry..

Btw I haven't seen anything about the case we are talking about here so no idea but as for the courts abs or social services getting it right...that would be the day

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I just hope your never on the jury if I ever get into trouble. There are always two sides to any story, and the tabloid press do not always give accurate information.

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By *or Fox Sake OP Couple over a year ago

Thornaby

"I'd also like to ask....if the mother taking the child from her father is likened to child abuse by the op, why is it not considered the same by taking the child away from the mother as punishment?

All you seem to be doing is advocating punishing the child for something they didn't do.

The child was put in the care of the father to prevent further emotional abuse.

So not seeing mum isn't emotional?"

She was emotionally abusing the child

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd also like to ask....if the mother taking the child from her father is likened to child abuse by the op, why is it not considered the same by taking the child away from the mother as punishment?

All you seem to be doing is advocating punishing the child for something they didn't do.

The child was put in the care of the father to prevent further emotional abuse.

So not seeing mum isn't emotional?

She was emotionally abusing the child"

How was she?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You cant possibly know the full story...

The judge does.

She denied access.

She made herself a threat to the child to the point where the judge removed the child from her.

Anything less than prison for her is a copy out.

How do you know the judge knows the full story ? "

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't think there is a right and a wrong here.

Two parents trying to do what they both feel is right. One may be in need of some help, ultimately they will both be dissapointed and hurt.

And in the meantime the child suffers, seeing the parents at odds with each other. The bad feeling, the anger, the mistrust.

Poor kid.......

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"I'd also like to ask....if the mother taking the child from her father is likened to child abuse by the op, why is it not considered the same by taking the child away from the mother as punishment?

All you seem to be doing is advocating punishing the child for something they didn't do.

The child was put in the care of the father to prevent further emotional abuse.

So not seeing mum isn't emotional?

She was emotionally abusing the child"

Can you post a link to the story. Will be easier to comment of we have all the facts in one go.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ignoring all the mud slinging.....what I find sad is that BOTH parents couldn't sit down 2 years ago and sort out access when their relationship ended. As I don't know the full facts I shall refrain from apportioning blame. I can empathise with the mother and obviously feel for the father, who it appears was locked out of his child's life. She has admitted her course of action in running away was wrong. Hopefully as she has now handed herself in ALL parties can get on with resolving this sorry mess for the benefit of the little lad.

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By *or Fox Sake OP Couple over a year ago

Thornaby

"I'm assuming the OP and people supporting the OP also believe that men who spirit their children away after custody has been awarded to the mother are also vermin. I mean, there should be equal opportunity disgust, shouldn't there? Even though this situation happens a hell of a lot more than the mother disappearing, shown by the fact that fathers kidnapping children is so common now the cases barely register with the media or the police these days."

If a father prevents access and breaks the law he should face punishment.

Father's kidnapping their children is very rare. Mothers in general do not need to kidnap their children. They get the family courts to do the dirty work for them.

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By *issHottieBottieWoman over a year ago

Kent

"I'd also like to ask....if the mother taking the child from her father is likened to child abuse by the op, why is it not considered the same by taking the child away from the mother as punishment?

All you seem to be doing is advocating punishing the child for something they didn't do.

The child was put in the care of the father to prevent further emotional abuse.

So not seeing mum isn't emotional?

She was emotionally abusing the child

Can you post a link to the story. Will be easier to comment of we have all the facts in one go. "

I can't find anything anywhere...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No one knows why she did it

But let me tell you if someone tried to take my kids away they would have find us first and I would go down fighting

I separated from my ex husband and moved 200 miles away for a fresh start does that mean I punished my kids by not staying local so he could have access ???

People need to stop judging others when they don't even know what's going on

SIMPLE

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

If a father prevents access and breaks the law he should face punishment.

Father's kidnapping their children is very rare. Mothers in general do not need to kidnap their children. They get the family courts to do the dirty work for them."

I could go on Google and, if allowed to post links, post several about fathers whisking their children to countries where the mother has no chance of getting them back. Its not rare at all.

I assume by your comments that women get the 'better deal' in custody battles that its the male half posting right now?

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By *or Fox Sake OP Couple over a year ago

Thornaby

"I'd also like to ask....if the mother taking the child from her father is likened to child abuse by the op, why is it not considered the same by taking the child away from the mother as punishment?

All you seem to be doing is advocating punishing the child for something they didn't do.

The child was put in the care of the father to prevent further emotional abuse.

So not seeing mum isn't emotional?

She was emotionally abusing the child

How was she? "

Social workers report. They recommended the child should live with the father.

That is so rare in the UK as to make any right minded person sit up and pay attention.

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By *or Fox Sake OP Couple over a year ago

Thornaby

If a father prevents access and breaks the law he should face punishment.

Father's kidnapping their children is very rare. Mothers in general do not need to kidnap their children. They get the family courts to do the dirty work for them.

I could go on Google and, if allowed to post links, post several about fathers whisking their children to countries where the mother has no chance of getting them back. Its not rare at all.

I assume by your comments that women get the 'better deal' in custody battles that its the male half posting right now?"

Nice to see your sticking to your sexist agenda.

Go Google father denied access to children. You'll find plenty.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What's the point in this debate KNOW one knows the the full story except the OP apparently, beginning to wonder if she personally knows the family as she is so vile against the women, the lady in question has handed herself in now so let's hope she gets the HELP and support she needs and the child can have BOTH parents in her life

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd also like to ask....if the mother taking the child from her father is likened to child abuse by the op, why is it not considered the same by taking the child away from the mother as punishment?

All you seem to be doing is advocating punishing the child for something they didn't do.

The child was put in the care of the father to prevent further emotional abuse.

So not seeing mum isn't emotional?

She was emotionally abusing the child

How was she?

Social workers report. They recommended the child should live with the father.

That is so rare in the UK as to make any right minded person sit up and pay attention."

And they never make mistakes, trust me I know full well that they do .. And makes sense now.. I'd have run too. But they should have been looking at why..Still can't find anything..

And emotional abuse can come under many things.. you can be accused it for very trivial things and it is up to the individual to prove they are wrong and running May not have done so... But it's protecting your child in your mind.

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By *iss_tressWoman over a year ago

London

"You cant possibly know the full story...

Which bit of "the judge does" are you struggling with?

Send her down so there is a clear message to people like her who indulge in child abuse.

...and as a mother I don't understand why she took him.

From what I've read they had joint custody but she didn't want to stick to the arrangements and infringed on the fathers time: shame on her.

When I left my husband my first thought was a clean break away from it all, but it wasn't about me. The children loved their father and he adored them. I moved four miles away. He could still take them to school, pick them up, cook their tea. I didn't take anything out of the house, left their bedrooms in tact so no change.

The result? Three happy, secure and well rounded children who enjoy a relationship with both their parents.

I firmly believe that unless there is abuse etc it's in the best interest of a child to have contact with both parents and for one to jeopardise that makes them a poor parent.

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By *qua vitaeWoman over a year ago

Shropshire/Midlands

No mention about the father or how he feels about having his child go missing. He's done the decent thing by not going to the papers, unlike the mother.

Granted that we shouldn't make any judgements until we know the whole story, but actions speak louder than words. There must have been a valid reason for the father to be awarded custody.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd run with my boys too if anyone tried to take them from me

Me too, I have to admit, - unlawful or not; I like to think that I'd do what was morally right, not lawfully, - morals are far more important that law in my book.

Laws are made by squeaky clean & responsible politicians, you know!

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By *or Fox Sake OP Couple over a year ago

Thornaby

"You cant possibly know the full story...

Which bit of "the judge does" are you struggling with?

Send her down so there is a clear message to people like her who indulge in child abuse.

...and as a mother I don't understand why she took him.

From what I've read they had joint custody but she didn't want to stick to the arrangements and infringed on the fathers time: shame on her.

The result? Three happy, secure and well rounded children who enjoy a relationship with both their parents.

I firmly believe that unless there is abuse etc it's in the best interest of a child to have contact with both parents and for one to jeopardise that makes them a poor parent. "
well said

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By *reasyontheeyesMan over a year ago

out in the sticks

Woman kidnaps child...gets sympathy

man kidnaps child .....gets locked up!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Woman kidnaps child...gets sympathy

man kidnaps child .....gets locked up!

No I think both must have a pretty strong reason.

But still not a reason to call either parent vermin

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

If a father prevents access and breaks the law he should face punishment.

Father's kidnapping their children is very rare. Mothers in general do not need to kidnap their children. They get the family courts to do the dirty work for them.

I could go on Google and, if allowed to post links, post several about fathers whisking their children to countries where the mother has no chance of getting them back. Its not rare at all.

I assume by your comments that women get the 'better deal' in custody battles that its the male half posting right now?

Nice to see your sticking to your sexist agenda.

Go Google father denied access to children. You'll find plenty.

I'm not the one calling someone obviously emotionally distressed 'vermin', or 'child abuser'. Go Google mother denied access to children, you'll also find plenty. But denying access and physically removing the child from the country are different things.

My point, which your rage filled eyes seems to miss, is that this happens to both parties, yet I rarely see posts in here stating men doing it are 'vermin' or 'child abusers'. There are two reasons why this was all over the media - one because she called them, the other because of how rare it is for a woman to go on the run.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None."

Do you know all the case details??

I suspecting not and just what the papers have told us.

Life is full of difficult situations it is best nit to judge without all the facts

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd run with my boys too if anyone tried to take them from me

Me too, I have to admit, - unlawful or not; I like to think that I'd do what was morally right, not lawfully, - morals are far more important that law in my book.

Laws are made by squeaky clean & responsible politicians, you know!

And what's moraly right is not to leave them with the other parent and vist but instead to take them on the run with a criminal with no chance of registering for a school, or a doctor or a day care centre?

Or anything really considered a normal childhood?

Just poverty, fear and the removal of all opertunity for a future

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By *or Fox Sake OP Couple over a year ago

Thornaby

If a father prevents access and breaks the law he should face punishment.

Father's kidnapping their children is very rare. Mothers in general do not need to kidnap their children. They get the family courts to do the dirty work for them.

I could go on Google and, if allowed to post links, post several about fathers whisking their children to countries where the mother has no chance of getting them back. Its not rare at all.

I assume by your comments that women get the 'better deal' in custody battles that its the male half posting right now?

Nice to see your sticking to your sexist agenda.

Go Google father denied access to children. You'll find plenty.

There's plenty of stuff out there about "dead beat dads".

Yes it is rare for a woman to go on the run after kidnapping their own child. Generally the family courts side with the mother. They don't need to resort to kidnap. The courts do it for them.

Parental alienation is child abuse. It's that simple.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'd love to know your _iew on the McCann story!

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By *uperGuy68Man over a year ago

Southampton

". When I left my husband my first thought was a clean break away from it all, but it wasn't about me. The children loved their father and he adored them. I moved four miles away. He could still take them to school, pick them up, cook their tea. I didn't take anything out of the house, left their bedrooms in tact so no change.

The result? Three happy, secure and well rounded children who enjoy a relationship with both their parents.

I firmly believe that unless there is abuse etc it's in the best interest of a child to have contact with both parents and for one to jeopardise that makes them a poor parent. "

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 13/06/15 08:49:23]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd love to know your _iew on the McCann story!"

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By *trawberry-popWoman over a year ago

South East Midlands NOT

If a father prevents access and breaks the law he should face punishment.

Father's kidnapping their children is very rare. Mothers in general do not need to kidnap their children. They get the family courts to do the dirty work for them.

I could go on Google and, if allowed to post links, post several about fathers whisking their children to countries where the mother has no chance of getting them back. Its not rare at all.

I assume by your comments that women get the 'better deal' in custody battles that its the male half posting right now?

Nice to see your sticking to your sexist agenda.

Go Google father denied access to children. You'll find plenty.

There's plenty of stuff out there about "dead beat dads".

Yes it is rare for a woman to go on the run after kidnapping their own child. Generally the family courts side with the mother. They don't need to resort to kidnap. The courts do it for them.

Parental alienation is child abuse. It's that simple. "

Oh behave, she's been gone a matter of days, not years. She'll see the light or be caught soon and once she's out of prison she'll resume normal contact arrangements.

If 'parental alienation" is child abuse there should be a fuckload more people in prison.

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By *bfoxxxMan over a year ago

Crete or LANCASTER

Harsh.

If that's your attitude, be grateful your not in a similar situation.

Perhaps you just want attention.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

My point is its not always as it seems. Parental alienation is awful when unjustified.... But in some cases and it is more common than ever makes the papers.. there has been reasons..

I do not know If this was the case but I do understand fighting for your child.. And in both sides.

I actually have been the mum that doesn't have full custody.. as when we split I'd been the one in full time work and he had been the stay at home dad so we thought it best for the kids if we didn't change anything... Guess what... I got told what an awful mum I was...even though it meant the least upheaval to the children

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

If a father prevents access and breaks the law he should face punishment.

Father's kidnapping their children is very rare. Mothers in general do not need to kidnap their children. They get the family courts to do the dirty work for them.

I could go on Google and, if allowed to post links, post several about fathers whisking their children to countries where the mother has no chance of getting them back. Its not rare at all.

I assume by your comments that women get the 'better deal' in custody battles that its the male half posting right now?

Nice to see your sticking to your sexist agenda.

Go Google father denied access to children. You'll find plenty.

There's plenty of stuff out there about "dead beat dads".

Yes it is rare for a woman to go on the run after kidnapping their own child. Generally the family courts side with the mother. They don't need to resort to kidnap. The courts do it for them.

Parental alienation is child abuse. It's that simple.

Oh behave, she's been gone a matter of days, not years. She'll see the light or be caught soon and once she's out of prison she'll resume normal contact arrangements.

If 'parental alienation" is child abuse there should be a fuckload more people in prison. "

She handed herself in. Now she can be put in stocks and vilified by the whole population for being the child abusing vermin she is. Bloody shrew!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd run with my boys too if anyone tried to take them from me

Me too, I have to admit, - unlawful or not; I like to think that I'd do what was morally right, not lawfully, - morals are far more important that law in my book.

Laws are made by squeaky clean & responsible politicians, you know!

Or anything really considered a normal childhood?

Just poverty, fear and the removal of all opertunity for a future"

Wow, how do you know all the case facts of a 'crime' that i have yet to commit?

Now that is even more absurd than some of the above posts!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd run with my boys too if anyone tried to take them from me

Me too, I have to admit, - unlawful or not; I like to think that I'd do what was morally right, not lawfully, - morals are far more important that law in my book.

Laws are made by squeaky clean & responsible politicians, you know!

Or anything really considered a normal childhood?

Just poverty, fear and the removal of all opertunity for a future

Wow, how do you know all the case facts of a 'crime' that i have yet to commit?

Now that is even more absurd than some of the above posts!!!

Well unless you're leaving the country you can hardly rock up at the local school and go "hey yeah so I'm on the run for kidnapping these two children can we get a place, and can we hurry up I've got to go start looking for a landlord who'll take cash in hand and not ask too many questions"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd run with my boys too if anyone tried to take them from me

Me too, I have to admit, - unlawful or not; I like to think that I'd do what was morally right, not lawfully, - morals are far more important that law in my book.

Laws are made by squeaky clean & responsible politicians, you know!

Or anything really considered a normal childhood?

Just poverty, fear and the removal of all opertunity for a future

Wow, how do you know all the case facts of a 'crime' that i have yet to commit?

Now that is even more absurd than some of the above posts!!!

Actually they dont ask for much when you suddenly move areas and if you have cash there will always be a landlord somewhere

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You cant possibly know the full story...

The judge does.

She denied access.

She made herself a threat to the child to the point where the judge removed the child from her.

Anything less than prison for her is a copy out."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None.

Do you know all the case details??

I suspecting not and just what the papers have told us.

Life is full of difficult situations it is best nit to judge without all the facts "

Exactly.

Suppose the mother knows something about the father, that he's abused the child in some way, but due to lack of evidence or just that the father has better legal representation - her fears are dismissed?

Can you imagine being forced to put your child in to a situation you know just isn't right!?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

Actually her family do not fully support her as her mother has spoken out against what she has done.

We do NOT know the full story. However the courts DO and that is why they made the decision they did."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sky news have just reported that she has handed herself and her son into the police. this is probably old news now but she has done the right thing. The report said she will get help and also will get some sort of punishment, the pictures of them showed a loving mum, doing what she thought was right and the child didnt look abused or unhappy either.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Just heard on radio... They were found safe and well in oxfordshire last night hope she gets the help she needs now x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The right of a parent to get access to their children is a fundamental right, regardless of the sex of the parent!.

The court made a decision based on the evidence put by both sides as well as evidence from social services and child phycologists.

The mother has to abide by that decision just like the father would have to!.

All this mother is doing is making the situation worse for all concerned including the child.

Courts and judges aren't perfect and that's why we have appeal systems but that's the way it works unless we want to go down the road of chaos.

Her father in law? I believe is already facing prison for contempt and purgury.

From a personal stand point we've seen friends go through bitter divorces and use their children as pawns, it's truly one of the most horrid things to witness right minded people go nuts and use their children as assets

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd run with my boys too if anyone tried to take them from me

Me too, I have to admit, - unlawful or not; I like to think that I'd do what was morally right, not lawfully, - morals are far more important that law in my book.

Laws are made by squeaky clean & responsible politicians, you know!

Or anything really considered a normal childhood?

Just poverty, fear and the removal of all opertunity for a future

Wow, how do you know all the case facts of a 'crime' that i have yet to commit?

Now that is even more absurd than some of the above posts!!!

Ah yes, you really didn't think it through, did you!

I may well be taking the child away from an abusive parent to another country which holds far better prospects for the child!!!

Thinking, thinking thinking!!!

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By *or Fox Sake OP Couple over a year ago

Thornaby

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None.

Do you know all the case details??

I suspecting not and just what the papers have told us.

Life is full of difficult situations it is best nit to judge without all the facts

Exactly.

Can you imagine being forced to put your child in to a situation you know just isn't right!? "

Yes I can imagine that. It's what family courts do to dads. Force their kids into situations that are not right.

I woman doesn't have to prove abuse. The mere allegations are enough to force the police and courts to remove the dad.

The mother tried the allegations tactic in this case. The judge investigated and found she was lieing.

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By *uncpl2015Couple over a year ago

Bridgend Area

So police, courts, social workers whether furnished with all the facts of any case/issue always make a judgement based on those facts and always in the best interest of the subject concerned...yeah right .. Sadly not in the real world they don't. They often do not make well informed judgements and as often makes judgements or come to conclusions that completely ignore the facts and even made up information. Good god I hope you never get to see the world from the real side. You only have to search the net about children being removed from parents incorrectly, that's child abuse and it's the authorities that do it. You don't know the facts, she didn't harm the child and was in a desperate state of mind as any would be in that situation. And yes if it was the father he would get the same comments. Vile name calling and slanderous remarks are completely uncalled for. I hope to god any parent put in that situation would feel so strongly they would also feel like doing the same (hopefully they wouldn't follow through, but I hope to god they feel like it).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So police, courts, social workers whether furnished with all the facts of any case/issue always make a judgement based on those facts and always in the best interest of the subject concerned...yeah right .. Sadly not in the real world they don't. They often do not make well informed judgements and as often makes judgements or come to conclusions that completely ignore the facts and even made up information. Good god I hope you never get to see the world from the real side. You only have to search the net about children being removed from parents incorrectly, that's child abuse and it's the authorities that do it. You don't know the facts, she didn't harm the child and was in a desperate state of mind as any would be in that situation. And yes if it was the father he would get the same comments. Vile name calling and slanderous remarks are completely uncalled for. I hope to god any parent put in that situation would feel so strongly they would also feel like doing the same (hopefully they wouldn't follow through, but I hope to god they feel like it). "

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By *bi HaiveMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Cheeseville, Somerset

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None.

Do you know all the case details??

I suspecting not and just what the papers have told us.

Life is full of difficult situations it is best nit to judge without all the facts

Exactly.

Can you imagine being forced to put your child in to a situation you know just isn't right!?

Yes I can imagine that. It's what family courts do to dads. Force their kids into situations that are not right.

I woman doesn't have to prove abuse. The mere allegations are enough to force the police and courts to remove the dad.

The mother tried the allegations tactic in this case. The judge investigated and found she was lieing. "

So you know the family in question OP?

Somebody asked earlier and you didn't seem to respond?

For those looking for a link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-33120424

She handed herself in.

There are many people that live locally to us that have more knowledge of both sides of the story yet whether they support the father or the mother I've yet to hear the word 'vermin' used.

You must know something nobody else does OP - maybe you should contact the court to give your expert opinion as a witness?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Not sure if it's the male or female OP posting on this thread but you appear from your comments to have been either on the 'wrong side' of a parental judgement or you know this women?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You cant possibly know the full story...

The judge does.

She denied access.

She made herself a threat to the child to the point where the judge removed the child from her.

Anything less than prison for her is a copy out."

You COULD be right - but then you could be wrong! No-one outside the family will ever know whether the decision was right or not! It's just a tragedy for everyone when custody/access has to be decided by a court rather than two reasonable parents (and the children if they're old enough!)

I live round the corner from my ex and his girlfriend - who's a lovely lady - and together we make a bloody good parenting team! My kid's home is far from 'broken' - and it makes me sad that it isn't like that for many other families! Xx

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By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

"The courts don't know the full story. They know the story that they have been told. "
. A very valid point and true of all court cases .

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Her mum and step father were sent to prison for lying in court. I think it's a sad story for all involved I can understand to a point why she done it but I don't condone what she did. The judge ruled in favour of the father which is uncommon so there Mylar of been something but I don't know the full story so not going to pass judgement.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None.

Do you know all the case details??

I suspecting not and just what the papers have told us.

Life is full of difficult situations it is best nit to judge without all the facts

Exactly.

Can you imagine being forced to put your child in to a situation you know just isn't right!?

Yes I can imagine that. It's what family courts do to dads. Force their kids into situations that are not right.

I woman doesn't have to prove abuse. The mere allegations are enough to force the police and courts to remove the dad.

The mother tried the allegations tactic in this case. The judge investigated and found she was lieing. "

That is rubbish. A mother does have to prove it.. And sadly I've seen many times where the long standing silent abuse leaves the other parent in a state... And therefore open to being made out to be the unstable one .

I say parent as I have seen this with both sexes. I used to work with domestic violence and abuse victims that had run off.. And in many cases there were never any formal charges because of the cleverness. Domestic violence is not always physical. There have been many times the abusive parent has won custody because the silent victim hasn't the support or anyone on their side and are often vilified

We dont know what happened but to wish her to never see her child and call her names. A bit shocking.

And just to balance it up I also did a lot of volunteer work for father's for justice a good few years back. As I know that In most cases kids need both parents.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oh only need to watch hollyoaks for that to be proved

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I say parent as I have seen this with both sexes. I used to work with domestic violence and abuse victims that had run off.. And in many cases there were never any formal charges because of the cleverness. Domestic violence is not always physical. There have been many times the abusive parent has won custody because the silent victim hasn't the support or anyone on their side and are often vilified...

Oh only need to watch hollyoaks for that to be proved

Oh.. is that why my formal colleagues are talking about hollyoaks... I'll ask my daughter as she is a fan x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

On what basis have you come to the conclusion that the authorities often make bad and uninformed decisions and ignore the facts? Remember as has already been mentioned not all cases make the news. Yes there are mistakes and wrong decisions but most likely nothing like the amount suggested by the press.

You stated that the op doesn't know the full facts and in the next sentance stated she didn't harm the child. How do you know this?

Slander? What slander. The op hasnt given names. A pedantic point im making there granted.

The op has made an emotional post that I believe has come from the heart. For that I will give then some slack. The vile comment is uncalled for though I agree.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

From what I can make out, the mother was about to lose custody because of serious allegations she made about the father and not allowing him to see his son. Yes I know, no one knows what has really happened and not all judges and SS will get things right, but there must be something going on as the natural order of things normally means the mother gets custody.

If it was I would have probably ran too, but then I didn't use my kids as a pawn when the situation arose. Lots of women do, and it isn't fair that they get away with it.

If this is what happened with this woman, then it has come back and bit her on the arse.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Her mum and step father were sent to prison for lying in court. I think it's a sad story for all involved I can understand to a point why she done it but I don't condone what she did. The judge ruled in favour of the father which is uncommon so there Mylar of been something but I don't know the full story so not going to pass judgement. "

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By *icky999Man over a year ago

warrington

multiple false alegations of child abuse=rat

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You cant possibly know the full story...

Which bit of "the judge does" are you struggling with?

Send her down so there is a clear message to people like her who indulge in child abuse.

...and as a mother I don't understand why she took him.

From what I've read they had joint custody but she didn't want to stick to the arrangements and infringed on the fathers time: shame on her.

The result? Three happy, secure and well rounded children who enjoy a relationship with both their parents.

I firmly believe that unless there is abuse etc it's in the best interest of a child to have contact with both parents and for one to jeopardise that makes them a poor parent. "

This is exactly how parents should behave. Your children are lucky to have you xx

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

PS I don't think the woman is vermin, I think anyone would find it hard at the thought they were going to take your child away. If it is what they say it is, it happens a lot with divorces and sadly it seems to be the women who use their children as pawns, men give up and can't see their children because the kids have been manipulated and then the men are vilified because they didn't keep in touch. Sometimes it isn't black and white.

There was a man on long lost families who's G/F manipulated her child and he lost out on seeing his child until she was an adult ( the daughter admitted it was what her mum did )

I just find all of it very sad

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

Actually her family do not fully support her as her mother has spoken out against what she has done.

We do NOT know the full story. However the courts DO and that is why they made the decision they did."

Her mother is serving 10 days for contempt of court

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Befire she handed herself in she gave am inter_iew to The Daily Mail and crazily thinks that this will make the courts reconsider their decision

I feel sorry for the child, to have parents so full of hate for each other that things escalate to this level is never good. And to be blunt her lies and her going on the run seem to suggest it's all about her wanting custody and not the child's welfare. Very sad

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Not sure if it's the male or female OP posting on this thread but you appear from your comments to have been either on the 'wrong side' of a parental judgement or you know this women?

I'm reading down this and the more I read the more I thought the same.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Working in a court that deals with family matters I can say that the Judges do care about their decisions. And they will make decisions based on what they think is best for the child.

Apparently this case had been going on for 2 years. So there would have been a lot of reports & statements from a lot of official people as well as the parents for the judge to look at. And they made the decision for the child to live with the father. That doesn't happen very often.

It's the child who I feel sorry for in all of this.

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By *bi HaiveMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Cheeseville, Somerset

"Befire she handed herself in she gave am inter_iew to The Daily Mail and crazily thinks that this will make the courts reconsider their decision

As with many a tale on Fab - there will be three sides to the story - hers, his and the truth. Which will be somewhere in between both parents stories or the complete opposite of both.

The parent/family friend being jailed for contempt has no bearing on who should get custody to me. Most parents will always side with their children, whether they're right or wrong and helping her 'disappear' will have been something they felt was necessary. It's what families do - protect the ones they love.

The liklehood is that neither parent is perfect - in fact they're both probably as bad as eachother. Whilst what has been done has broken the law people making judgements based on press reports and news stories is pointless. Unless anyone has personal connections to those involved the true facts will be unknown. How likely is it that the press will give an unbiased version of events for either side?

I hope that whatever the outcome that the child is the priority. And if that outcome means that neither parent is deemed fit to have custody then so be it.

But I'll leave it to the experts and those involved in the case to make that judgement rather than the media, the general public - or the fab forums.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

what we know about this case is that the lady when from having full custody of the child..... to having joint custody of the child (where the father had the child 3 days a week) to now the father having full custody....

so "something" must have happened/ changed for the courts.social services to be making those suggesteions/decisions... not alledging anything...

remember they are trying to make decisions in the best interest of the child, they don't get it right 101% of the time... but i would like to think they get it right a hell of a lot more times they get it wrong... because the only cases we normally hear about in the press are the times when the courts/Social services have got it truely and horribly wrong... baby P, Victoria Climbie ect

its a sad story.....

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By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

It's a sad story.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Poor child hopes they are happy with the Father.

Happy ending could have been so much worse.

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By *odareyouMan over a year ago

not far from iceland,,,,,, tescos is nearer though :-) (near leeds)

I know little of the case other than the reported headlines...

Apparently the mother is due to appear before the court on Monday morning to explain her actions, i fear this is just the start of the story and will result in further court cases between the parents... Sad for all involved.

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By *angerousEyesMan over a year ago

weston

Self obsessed, self serving. Was anything she has done been in the best interest of the child?? No. Lied cheated broken the law, yes. Does she deserve jail and no contact with her child, yes she does. Is that in the best interest of the kid, no. Difficult decision, she sure deserves some sort of punishment but what?

If it was the guy many would want a jail sentence. There is no good outcome too this, however she did break the law, she did lie, she did cheat and did not put her childs needs above hers.

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By *oddyWoman over a year ago

between havant and chichester

just seen on the news boy back with dad mother not arrested

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"multiple false alegations of child abuse=rat"

Yes its wrong if it's false but many abusers get away with it even after being accused because they are clever and the other party simply is easily discredited..

Not saying this Is the case here but I have seen it happen on far to many occasions.. courts awarding custody to the actual abusive parent and that is then the ultimate punishment for the parent that has lost the child. Often no further actions are taken towards them..

It is rarely newsworthy unless the parent is later found guilty x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Again, not saying this is the case here...

But I know someone who split from their son's dad.

Son is now a toddler. She was changing his nappy and the toddler asked her to do something - "like daddy does".

It was sexual abuse.

She reported it.

They investigated and found no evidence. The child was put into play therapy and he didn't say anything to the therapist regarding abuse.

So for lack of evidence it was thrown out.

She is now being forced to give the dad unsupervised access. Overnight stays at the dad's.

She has considered running but knows there's a chance he could go for full custody.

I don't know what she did, but she was in an impossible situation.

I am no longer in contact with her.

This is in the US, not the UK. But I could a similar situation happen here?

Having said that, it's unusual for social services to say they would recommend sole custody to the father.

But having said THAT, I know several families who have been very, very wrongly investigated of child abuse and even had kids taken off them because they had undiagnosed behavioural problems like autism.

No one really knows the ins and outs.

I do think the mum should always have supervised access though, as otherwise it's very emotionally damaging to the child. And the court should be held accountable for that damage.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Again, not saying this is the case here...

But I know someone who split from their son's dad.

Son is now a toddler. She was changing his nappy and the toddler asked her to do something - "like daddy does".

It was sexual abuse.

She reported it.

They investigated and found no evidence. The child was put into play therapy and he didn't say anything to the therapist regarding abuse.

So for lack of evidence it was thrown out.

She is now being forced to give the dad unsupervised access. Overnight stays at the dad's.

She has considered running but knows there's a chance he could go for full custody.

I don't know what she did, but she was in an impossible situation.

I am no longer in contact with her.

This is in the US, not the UK. But I could a similar situation happen here?

Having said that, it's unusual for social services to say they would recommend sole custody to the father.

No one really knows the ins and outs.

I do think the mum should always have supervised access though, as otherwise it's very emotionally damaging to the child. And the court should be held accountable for that damage."

Prime example of the authorities getting it wrong. This makes my blood boil..

and why my child was with me constantly until he was able to take personal care of himself, and know the difference between acceptable behaviour and otherwise. Yes it was exhausting never leaving him with anyone, ever, and friends and family accused me of being overprotective but my conscience is totally clear that he was never put at risk. And of all the issues that life will inevitably throw at him, as it does all of us - at least one of them won't have been child abuse.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None."

OP, You've posted about your own circumstances in the past. Let the judge decide what is the right course of action. Not the court of public opinion or your own anger at your circumstances.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm fully with the OP, and a few others on this. 100%

I'd go as far as to say the Mother does need help. Sterilisation so she cannot inflict this self absorbed behaviour on any more unfortunate offspring.

To those who say the Judge didn't know everything. He didn't need to. From what little he knew, he knew she was a blatant liar, no respect for Law whatsoever. In short, also an unfit abusive mother.

There is only one reason why the Courts keep Family cases behind closed doors . They, and many of the involved parties, are desperate to keep it confidential so the public don't get to know just how bad and corrupt it actually is.

One of their immense problems is huge delays, deliberated manipulated most often by the mother's side. This would be vastly reduced, in an instant, by opening the Courts up.

Vermin is a fair description of this woman.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" I'm fully with the OP, and a few others on this. 100%

I'd go as far as to say the Mother does need help. Sterilisation so she cannot inflict this self absorbed behaviour on any more unfortunate offspring.

To those who say the Judge didn't know everything. He didn't need to. From what little he knew, he knew she was a blatant liar, no respect for Law whatsoever. In short, also an unfit abusive mother.

One of their immense problems is huge delays, deliberated manipulated most often by the mother's side. This would be vastly reduced, in an instant, by opening the Courts up.

Vermin is a fair description of this woman. "

Thing is the secrecy does lead to a lot of problems but we don't want to be permanently taring the child with the proceedings.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Is it any of our business?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is it any of our business?"

Probably not but she went to the press so fair game for discussion.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" I'm fully with the OP, and a few others on this. 100%

I'd go as far as to say the Mother does need help. Sterilisation so she cannot inflict this self absorbed behaviour on any more unfortunate offspring.

To those who say the Judge didn't know everything. He didn't need to. From what little he knew, he knew she was a blatant liar, no respect for Law whatsoever. In short, also an unfit abusive mother.

One of their immense problems is huge delays, deliberated manipulated most often by the mother's side. This would be vastly reduced, in an instant, by opening the Courts up.

Vermin is a fair description of this woman. "

It does make me laugh that people on this site talk about privacy and not wanting face pics to be public but they feel they should have a right to know what decision a judge makes on a family matter.

The people involved in the case all know why the judge has made the decision, what right do you or I have to know about someone's private life?

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By *atie MWoman over a year ago

Brentwood

" I'm fully with the OP, and a few others on this. 100%

I'd go as far as to say the Mother does need help. Sterilisation so she cannot inflict this self absorbed behaviour on any more unfortunate offspring.

To those who say the Judge didn't know everything. He didn't need to. From what little he knew, he knew she was a blatant liar, no respect for Law whatsoever. In short, also an unfit abusive mother.

One of their immense problems is huge delays, deliberated manipulated most often by the mother's side. This would be vastly reduced, in an instant, by opening the Courts up.

Vermin is a fair description of this woman.

It does make me laugh that people on this site talk about privacy and not wanting face pics to be public but they feel they should have a right to know what decision a judge makes on a family matter.

The people involved in the case all know why the judge has made the decision, what right do you or I have to know about someone's private life?"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If a father prevents access and breaks the law he should face punishment.

Father's kidnapping their children is very rare. Mothers in general do not need to kidnap their children. They get the family courts to do the dirty work for them."
actually it happens all the time with men taking there kids away, because its not kidnapping. if its your child and you are allowed access you can take your child from anywhere without the other parent knowing and its not kidnapping. i have a family member who has to deal with this pretty much everytime they send their child to dads, she cant stop access because courts granted it and she also cant stop him taking the child away when he decides to. you can never judge a situation properly unless you were there.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If a father prevents access and breaks the law he should face punishment.

Father's kidnapping their children is very rare. Mothers in general do not need to kidnap their children. They get the family courts to do the dirty work for them. actually it happens all the time with men taking there kids away, because its not kidnapping. if its your child and you are allowed access you can take your child from anywhere without the other parent knowing and its not kidnapping. i have a family member who has to deal with this pretty much everytime they send their child to dads, she cant stop access because courts granted it and she also cant stop him taking the child away when he decides to. you can never judge a situation properly unless you were there."

If there is a court order regarding contact & a parent does not stick to the order, then yes, the other parent can do something about it. It's called a Prohibitive Steps Order. We've had parents come in and see a judge on the same day if a child is not returned when they are supposed to be.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Again, not saying this is the case here...

But I know someone who split from their son's dad.

Son is now a toddler. She was changing his nappy and the toddler asked her to do something - "like daddy does".

It was sexual abuse.

She reported it.

They investigated and found no evidence. The child was put into play therapy and he didn't say anything to the therapist regarding abuse.

So for lack of evidence it was thrown out.

She is now being forced to give the dad unsupervised access. Overnight stays at the dad's.

She has considered running but knows there's a chance he could go for full custody.

I don't know what she did, but she was in an impossible situation.

I am no longer in contact with her.

This is in the US, not the UK. But I could a similar situation happen here?

Having said that, it's unusual for social services to say they would recommend sole custody to the father.

No one really knows the ins and outs.

I do think the mum should always have supervised access though, as otherwise it's very emotionally damaging to the child. And the court should be held accountable for that damage."

Of course the other side of that is the child said no such thing (why didn't they just ask the kid what daddy did when changing his nappy) and she just made it up.

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By *or Fox Sake OP Couple over a year ago

Thornaby

If a father prevents access and breaks the law he should face punishment.

He did nothing wrong.

She kidnapped a child.

She has done her child massive damage.

She needs to be imprisoned as a lesson to like minded people.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" I'm fully with the OP, and a few others on this. 100%

I'd go as far as to say the Mother does need help. Sterilisation so she cannot inflict this self absorbed behaviour on any more unfortunate offspring.

To those who say the Judge didn't know everything. He didn't need to. From what little he knew, he knew she was a blatant liar, no respect for Law whatsoever. In short, also an unfit abusive mother.

One of their immense problems is huge delays, deliberated manipulated most often by the mother's side. This would be vastly reduced, in an instant, by opening the Courts up.

Vermin is a fair description of this woman.

It does make me laugh that people on this site talk about privacy and not wanting face pics to be public but they feel they should have a right to know what decision a judge makes on a family matter.

The people involved in the case all know why the judge has made the decision, what right do you or I have to know about someone's private life?"

I really don't give a fuck about this woman's private life.

But when the proceedings are deliberately manipulated by one party, very often egged on and certainly supported by the "caring" authorities, leading to such contempt for the rule of law, and actual Contempt of Law, then it matters to us all.

For anyone who actually supports the theory, and indeed practice, of "Equality", this woman MUST be jailed.

Wasn't it 2009 when an all-party parliamentary committee stated unequivocally that CAFCASS ie the key advisers, were NOT fit for purpose?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

She just a mum who doesn't want to lose her kids and will do anything to keep them. It's human nature. Lock her up for loving her kids? Really?

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By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

If a father prevents access and breaks the law he should face punishment.

He did nothing wrong.

She kidnapped a child.

She has done her child massive damage.

She needs to be imprisoned as a lesson to like minded people."
. How do we know that she has done her child massive damage ?. I have not seen any suggestions that she was a bad mother. And how do we know that he did nothing wrong?. Why are you so eager to send someone to prison?. This would be a complete waste of tax payers money. Hopefully both parents can resolve their differences and ensure that each has access.

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By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

" I'm fully with the OP, and a few others on this. 100%

I'd go as far as to say the Mother does need help. Sterilisation so she cannot inflict this self absorbed behaviour on any more unfortunate offspring.

To those who say the Judge didn't know everything. He didn't need to. From what little he knew, he knew she was a blatant liar, no respect for Law whatsoever. In short, also an unfit abusive mother.

One of their immense problems is huge delays, deliberated manipulated most often by the mother's side. This would be vastly reduced, in an instant, by opening the Courts up.

Vermin is a fair description of this woman.

It does make me laugh that people on this site talk about privacy and not wanting face pics to be public but they feel they should have a right to know what decision a judge makes on a family matter.

The people involved in the case all know why the judge has made the decision, what right do you or I have to know about someone's private life?

I really don't give a fuck about this woman's private life.

For anyone who actually supports the theory, and indeed practice, of "Equality", this woman MUST be jailed.

Wasn't it 2009 when an all-party parliamentary committee stated unequivocally that CAFCASS ie the key advisers, were NOT fit for purpose?

"
. Sending a good mother to prison is completely pointless and a complete waste of the tax payers money . Those involved in the justice system probably do not care about the tax payer or the cost as it is not their money. Hopefully both parents can resolve their differences and the matter can be forgotten about .

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By *or Fox Sake OP Couple over a year ago

Thornaby

" I'm fully with the OP, and a few others on this. 100%

I'd go as far as to say the Mother does need help. Sterilisation so she cannot inflict this self absorbed behaviour on any more unfortunate offspring.

To those who say the Judge didn't know everything. He didn't need to. From what little he knew, he knew she was a blatant liar, no respect for Law whatsoever. In short, also an unfit abusive mother.

One of their immense problems is huge delays, deliberated manipulated most often by the mother's side. This would be vastly reduced, in an instant, by opening the Courts up.

Vermin is a fair description of this woman.

It does make me laugh that people on this site talk about privacy and not wanting face pics to be public but they feel they should have a right to know what decision a judge makes on a family matter.

The people involved in the case all know why the judge has made the decision, what right do you or I have to know about someone's private life?

I really don't give a fuck about this woman's private life.

For anyone who actually supports the theory, and indeed practice, of "Equality", this woman MUST be jailed.

Wasn't it 2009 when an all-party parliamentary committee stated unequivocally that CAFCASS ie the key advisers, were NOT fit for purpose?

. Sending a good mother to prison is completely pointless and a complete waste of the tax payers money . Those involved in the justice system probably do not care about the tax payer or the cost as it is not their money. Hopefully both parents can resolve their differences and the matter can be forgotten about . "

You said good mother.

Good mothers do not abduct children.

Good mothers do not withhold access to father's.

She is not a good mother. She deserves prison.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None.

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By *gNeMan over a year ago

Harrogate

Where's all the feminists screaming for the woman's head. Surely all of this positive discrimination and gender profiling is making your blood boil??

Oh wait no, because double standards are only a one dimensional problem..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"She just a mum who doesn't want to lose her kids and will do anything to keep them. It's human nature. Lock her up for loving her kids? Really? "

If she really "will do anything" to keep her kids, why not just tell the truth (at least not blatantly lie) and stick to contact agreed at Court.

She has brought this all upon herself for one reason and one reason only. Herself. Not for the welfare of the kid(s).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

My, Our, Your

Ever notice when women such as this one bring attention to their situation it is invariably :

a) but Judge they are MY children, i want to keep my child

b) rarely OUR children,

but quite often

c) Father ( dear twat) i will do all i can to see that you never see YOUR child again.

As has been said :

Jail her, then arrange and allow supervised contact.

Then sterilise her.

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By *or Fox Sake OP Couple over a year ago

Thornaby

"Where's all the feminists screaming for the woman's head. Surely all of this positive discrimination and gender profiling is making your blood boil??

Oh wait no, because double standards are only a one dimensional problem.. "

Absolutely spot on

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ah! You've got to love swingers... So non judgemental and caring with open minds and an acceptance of other people's needs and differences.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

" I'm fully with the OP, and a few others on this. 100%

I'd go as far as to say the Mother does need help. Sterilisation so she cannot inflict this self absorbed behaviour on any more unfortunate offspring.

To those who say the Judge didn't know everything. He didn't need to. From what little he knew, he knew she was a blatant liar, no respect for Law whatsoever. In short, also an unfit abusive mother.

One of their immense problems is huge delays, deliberated manipulated most often by the mother's side. This would be vastly reduced, in an instant, by opening the Courts up.

Vermin is a fair description of this woman.

It does make me laugh that people on this site talk about privacy and not wanting face pics to be public but they feel they should have a right to know what decision a judge makes on a family matter.

The people involved in the case all know why the judge has made the decision, what right do you or I have to know about someone's private life?

I really don't give a fuck about this woman's private life.

For anyone who actually supports the theory, and indeed practice, of "Equality", this woman MUST be jailed.

Wasn't it 2009 when an all-party parliamentary committee stated unequivocally that CAFCASS ie the key advisers, were NOT fit for purpose?

You said good mother.

Good mothers do not abduct children.

Good mothers do not withhold access to father's.

She is not a good mother. She deserves prison."
. As it is her own child , I fail to see how she can be accused of abducting it. How would withholding access make her a bad mother ?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" I'm fully with the OP, and a few others on this. 100%

I'd go as far as to say the Mother does need help. Sterilisation so she cannot inflict this self absorbed behaviour on any more unfortunate offspring.

To those who say the Judge didn't know everything. He didn't need to. From what little he knew, he knew she was a blatant liar, no respect for Law whatsoever. In short, also an unfit abusive mother.

One of their immense problems is huge delays, deliberated manipulated most often by the mother's side. This would be vastly reduced, in an instant, by opening the Courts up.

Vermin is a fair description of this woman.

It does make me laugh that people on this site talk about privacy and not wanting face pics to be public but they feel they should have a right to know what decision a judge makes on a family matter.

The people involved in the case all know why the judge has made the decision, what right do you or I have to know about someone's private life?

I really don't give a fuck about this woman's private life.

For anyone who actually supports the theory, and indeed practice, of "Equality", this woman MUST be jailed.

Wasn't it 2009 when an all-party parliamentary committee stated unequivocally that CAFCASS ie the key advisers, were NOT fit for purpose?

You said good mother.

Good mothers do not abduct children.

Good mothers do not withhold access to father's.

She is not a good mother. She deserves prison.. As it is her own child , I fail to see how she can be accused of abducting it. How would withholding access make her a bad mother ?"

Withholding access to the child's father is wrong.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Judges don't make residence orders lightly. I had made an application for residence based in the fact that an older child of my ex had been subject of residence proceedings previously and it was found that my ex had emotionally abused my kuds by denying them access to me and that they were likely to suffer abuse again in the future, but I was only granted shared residence. I think what this woman said to the papers when she turned herself in says it all. Child missing his own bed toys family etc and she hoped the court would recind the order - clearly learned nothing and still unwilling to recognise that child needs its father too.

Given that there are numerous cases brought to court like this every day, but go unreported because of the confidentiality of the family court system, this womans actions have actually done the courts a favour by bringing such behaviour into the spotlight. The court needs to set an example. Jail. Six months minimun.

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By *ynecplCouple over a year ago

Newcastle upon Tyne

She will go to jail and for I agree with the justice system.

According to the family courts she tried numerous things in order to frustrate the court process and the father from seeing his child.

Using the media as she has will certainly not help her cause.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I doubt very much she will go to prison to be honest.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sigh, on behalf of 100k's children and parents, IF only the Courts had the balls to do this earlier.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody's power and is not easy."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm beginning to think the woman should be sectionned.

Is this the height of hypocrisy, writing this on her facebook page :

"To all the mums and dads fighting for their children: please keep going and never give up.

"I will never give up on keeping my beautiful baby safe."

Yet the same woman does all she can to deny her own child and father their contact?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" I'm fully with the OP, and a few others on this. 100%

I'd go as far as to say the Mother does need help. Sterilisation so she cannot inflict this self absorbed behaviour on any more unfortunate offspring.

To those who say the Judge didn't know everything. He didn't need to. From what little he knew, he knew she was a blatant liar, no respect for Law whatsoever. In short, also an unfit abusive mother.

One of their immense problems is huge delays, deliberated manipulated most often by the mother's side. This would be vastly reduced, in an instant, by opening the Courts up.

Vermin is a fair description of this woman.

It does make me laugh that people on this site talk about privacy and not wanting face pics to be public but they feel they should have a right to know what decision a judge makes on a family matter.

The people involved in the case all know why the judge has made the decision, what right do you or I have to know about someone's private life?

I really don't give a fuck about this woman's private life.

For anyone who actually supports the theory, and indeed practice, of "Equality", this woman MUST be jailed.

Wasn't it 2009 when an all-party parliamentary committee stated unequivocally that CAFCASS ie the key advisers, were NOT fit for purpose?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You cant possibly know the full story...

Which bit of "the judge does" are you struggling with?

Send her down so there is a clear message to people like her who indulge in child abuse.

Because no one has ever lied in court have they....

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm beginning to think the woman should be sectionned.

Is this the height of hypocrisy, writing this on her facebook page :

"To all the mums and dads fighting for their children: please keep going and never give up.

"I will never give up on keeping my beautiful baby safe."

Yet the same woman does all she can to deny her own child and father their contact?

Working in a court it saddens me that parents use their children as pawns in their petty squabbles. Arguing over such stupid things like what colour socks the child should wear etc. Mums seem to be fine with the dads having contact until the dad gets a new girlfriend & then suddenly they deny access.

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By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

I'm beginning to think the woman should be sectionned.

Is this the height of hypocrisy, writing this on her facebook page :

"To all the mums and dads fighting for their children: please keep going and never give up.

"I will never give up on keeping my beautiful baby safe."

Yet the same woman does all she can to deny her own child and father their contact?

"
She believes what she is doing is the best for her son. It is hardly a crime to be a good mother . Lots of people have no faith in the family court system anyway. What right does a court have to tell you how to bring up your daughter.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm beginning to think the woman should be sectionned.

Is this the height of hypocrisy, writing this on her facebook page :

"To all the mums and dads fighting for their children: please keep going and never give up.

"I will never give up on keeping my beautiful baby safe."

Yet the same woman does all she can to deny her own child and father their contact?

She believes what she is doing is the best for her son. It is hardly a crime to be a good mother . Lots of people have no faith in the family court system anyway. What right does a court have to tell you how to bring up your daughter."

She' not coming across as a good mother though. Quite the opposite.

You advocating anarchy?

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"You cant possibly know the full story...

The judge does.

She denied access.

She made herself a threat to the child to the point where the judge removed the child from her.

Anything less than prison for her is a copy out.

How do you know the judge knows the full story ? "

If you've ever been involved in a custody case you'd know that the judge does know.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

I don't believe that she should go to prison, although some guys have been for doing similar. However what she did was kidnapping and, as such a criminal act and she should be punished.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think there is a right and a wrong here.

Two parents trying to do what they both feel is right. One may be in need of some help, ultimately they will both be dissapointed and hurt.

And in the meantime the child suffers, seeing the parents at odds with each other. The bad feeling, the anger, the mistrust.

Poor kid......."

totally agree with this. It's so so sad

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"I dont no the full story and i dont have children, i can only imagine why she ran away with her child.... If somebody said to me we are taking your child from you and placing he/she with somebody elts id be distraught and try everything in my power to be with my child! If that means running away so be it.... Im certainly not saying what she has done is right not at all but the thought of losing someone you love and being placed with someone elts will make you think mad things and the possibility of putting thoes mad things into action! X"

I understand where you're coming from but it's important to remember that the person the child has been placed with is the childs father, not just anybody. I've no doubt that the father loves the child at least as much as the mother and would have similar feelings if the child was taken from him and given to the mother. The only real difference is that if he had done what she did, kidnapped the child, he would probably be facing a jail term right now.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"And the british judicial system is spot on with its judgements everytime? I think not . Lets wait for the full story to come out before we hang this young desperate mother for wanting to be with her child. "

It's unlikely that the full story will ever come out. Family court decisions and deliberations are not allowed to be made public for the protection of the child or children involved. (Not something I totally agree with actually)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I feel sorry for the child as he is the innercent one in all this putting that aside though no one except the people involved know the true story so who are we to judge them evan if it was the otherway round

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I feel sorry for the child as he is the innercent one in all this putting that aside though no one except the people involved know the true story so who are we to judge them evan if it was the otherway round

"
.

What a load of bollocks.

How an earth does anybody get tail by jury or judge.

Nobody knows the true story... It's all a mystery.

No it's not.

She's been a bad mother and needs punishment/rehabilitation

The end

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"You cant possibly know the full story...

Which bit of "the judge does" are you struggling with?

Send her down so there is a clear message to people like her who indulge in child abuse.

. I am surprised that you state that thr judge knows all the facts . He would only have access to the information as presented in Court and this would be dependent on all parties presenting all the relevant information. . What if either party withheld information or if there were professional witnesses who just presented biased information in order to earn fees . As these cases are held in private , how can the public be expected to have any confidence in the judges decision..As long as the judge gets their salary and pension , they probably are indifferent to their decisions and the impact on family life . Do we know why the father and mother split up?. "

I think that's an extremely disingenuous to many judges. If they were in it for just the money they would not be in the family court circuit. Most of the evidence in these cases comes from the mother and father directly, the only professional input in most cases is from Social Services. Cases where other, privately hired, professional give evidence are few if any.

I agree that sometimes the family courts are too secretive but mostly in situations where children are being taken into care. I really don't think that wide public disclosure of evidence put forward in custody cases between mothers and fathers would serve the interests of either the mother, father or the children.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

All I know (from experience) that it is never black and white. Two people see the same thing but neither agree on what they have seen.

I wish it was simple, I wish it was black and white, good and evil but it rarely is.

I hope that both parents and the child have good lawyers and that the judge can see through all the lies and half truths that will be promoted.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And there but for the Grace of God go any of us.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Our kids will grow up to become adults

we will be judged by our kids one day

no parent ever escapes this, a just hope this couple can sort this out

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"Everything things 100% correct then because it went before a judge.

Can you come up with a better way of deciding these cases?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"All I know (from experience) that it is never black and white. Two people see the same thing but neither agree on what they have seen.

I wish it was simple, I wish it was black and white, good and evil but it rarely is.

I hope that both parents and the child have good lawyers and that the judge can see through all the lies and half truths that will be promoted."
.

You could apply all that save criteria to Myra hindley.

There's a system it's not perfect but it's got back up.

You either roll with or you don't, but what you can't do is pick and choose which bits is fair!

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None.. Having re read this post , I can only assume it is a wind up. . If it was meant to be taken seriously , you would hardly call the mother vermin

No. She truely is vermin."

I don't know if she's vermin or not but she is wrong and should be punished for kidnapping because that's what she did.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None.. Having re read this post , I can only assume it is a wind up. . If it was meant to be taken seriously , you would hardly call the mother vermin

No. She truely is vermin.

Do you know her personaly OP, or is your _iew of her based on what you've read in the papers and on tv?"

We don't need to know her personally to know she broke the law and kidnapped the child. Whilst I'm not sure that that merits her going to prison it definitely deserves a punishment of some sort.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"And there but for the Grace of God go any of us."

Not really.

Sounds like it's a situation it's quite easy to avoid getting yourself in.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"All I know (from experience) that it is never black and white. Two people see the same thing but neither agree on what they have seen.

I wish it was simple, I wish it was black and white, good and evil but it rarely is.

I hope that both parents and the child have good lawyers and that the judge can see through all the lies and half truths that will be promoted..

You could apply all that save criteria to Myra hindley.

There's a system it's not perfect but it's got back up.

You either roll with or you don't, but what you can't do is pick and choose which bits is fair!

I don't think I put my point across well there at all. I agree that the system isn't perfect and there are checks and balances in it. I wish it was a "yes, she is a bad person" or "no, she isn't a bad person" but the reality is rarely that clear cut.

Interesting point about Myra Hindley. As someone who is related to one of the detectives who was involved in the case, it is a distressing memory. He never recovered from the depression that started after listening to the Lesley Ann Downey torture tapes and committed suicide.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"Must be sent down.

She tried to prevent the child's father having a relationship with his son.

She lied to the courts.

She kidnapped the child.

She is vermin.

Let's hope she gets a nice long custodial sentence and has the same access that she tried to inflict on the child's father.

None.. Having re read this post , I can only assume it is a wind up. . If it was meant to be taken seriously , you would hardly call the mother vermin

No. She truely is vermin.

Why is she... ? Maybe she had good reason.. I've not read or even seen the original story but going on the run with your child is not something any parent would do lightly..

But I know a few that have moved away and hidden from the men for good reason.. And I also don't see how just running away is child abuse."

But the court, which will have looked at all the evidence, decided that the father should have custody. It would not have done that without good reason. Whether see actually abused the child or not we will probably never know but what we do know is that she kidnapped her child against the child's interests as decided by the court. It's wrong when fathers do it and it's just as wrong for a mother.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"All I know (from experience) that it is never black and white. Two people see the same thing but neither agree on what they have seen.

I wish it was simple, I wish it was black and white, good and evil but it rarely is.

I hope that both parents and the child have good lawyers and that the judge can see through all the lies and half truths that will be promoted..

You could apply all that save criteria to Myra hindley.

There's a system it's not perfect but it's got back up.

You either roll with or you don't, but what you can't do is pick and choose which bits is fair!

That was my point, you could say nobody knows the real story about any crime!.

In the absence of not being perfect we get the legal system we have, and you have to abide by it.

Which means you can't go on the run with your bleeding kids just because you don't like the answer you get off it, and if you do, then be prepared to face the consequences when your eventually caught!.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"You cant possibly know the full story...

Which bit of "the judge does" are you struggling with?

Send her down so there is a clear message to people like her who indulge in child abuse.

We don't actually know that. She may have done it because she hates the father. Her motivation is unknown. She broke the law.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"You cant possibly know the full story...

Which bit of "the judge does" are you struggling with?

Send her down so there is a clear message to people like her who indulge in child abuse.

you and I will never know the bond that that mother & daughter may have and if you separate them; in years to come both will remember and eventually be together again"

I don't believe the bond between a mother and child is any stronger than the bond between a father and child. Just different.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"I'd also like to ask....if the mother taking the child from her father is likened to child abuse by the op, why is it not considered the same by taking the child away from the mother as punishment?

All you seem to be doing is advocating punishing the child for something they didn't do. I

This

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

I wouldn't call either vermin because neither is. Both are humans who, normally for the worse of the child, are acting on their emotions; whether love for the child or hate for the other parent. However what they are doing is kidnapping and, when it happens, the guilty party should be punished.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"I'd also like to ask....if the mother taking the child from her father is likened to child abuse by the op, why is it not considered the same by taking the child away from the mother as punishment?

All you seem to be doing is advocating punishing the child for something they didn't do.

The child was put in the care of the father to prevent further emotional abuse.

So not seeing mum isn't emotional?"

I think the mother had access rights. It would be quite unusual for custody to be granted to one parent and no access rights given to the other.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"No one knows why she did it

But let me tell you if someone tried to take my kids away they would have find us first and I would go down fighting

I separated from my ex husband and moved 200 miles away for a fresh start does that mean I punished my kids by not staying local so he could have access ???

People need to stop judging others when they don't even know what's going on

SIMPLE

I'm not judging her beyond what is known. She kidnapped the child from it's legal guardian, in this case the father. It's just as wrong as if the father of your kids turned up and took your children.

I don't know if you punished your kids by moving 200 miles from their father because I don't know the facts. Only you, maybe he and your kids will know that.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"What's the point in this debate KNOW one knows the the full story except the OP apparently, beginning to wonder if she personally knows the family as she is so vile against the women, the lady in question has handed herself in now so let's hope she gets the HELP and support she needs and the child can have BOTH parents in her life "

I agree but, unless it can be shown she was not responsible for her actions, she must also receive some punishment for her illegal act. At the end of the day she did kidnap the child.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"I'd also like to ask....if the mother taking the child from her father is likened to child abuse by the op, why is it not considered the same by taking the child away from the mother as punishment?

All you seem to be doing is advocating punishing the child for something they didn't do.

The child was put in the care of the father to prevent further emotional abuse.

So not seeing mum isn't emotional?

She was emotionally abusing the child

How was she?

Social workers report. They recommended the child should live with the father.

That is so rare in the UK as to make any right minded person sit up and pay attention.

And they never make mistakes, trust me I know full well that they do .. And makes sense now.. I'd have run too. But they should have been looking at why..Still can't find anything..

But surely we can't allow people to just kidnap children because they don't agree with the rulings of the court.

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