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e ciggies.... the rise and fall (well ban!)
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"the welsh assembly have push ahead on a ban on the use of e-cigs in public places.... basically the same ban as on normal cigs.... The new tobacco and e-cigarette measures will mean: Shops will have to join a register for retailers of tobacco and e-cigarettes - aimed at stopping illegal sales to under-18s It will be an offence to "hand over" tobacco and e-cigarettes to children - and this will include online sales A restricted use of e-cigarettes, banning them in enclosed public spaces and workplaces - this will include lorries and taxis split opinions..... what do you think" Sounds good to me! | |||
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"I thought all that came out was water vapor so they hardly a public health risk" It's vegetable glycerine n propylene glycol vapour...... With natural and artificial flavouring n nicotine........ So not quite as harmless as water vapour unfortunately. | |||
"the welsh assembly have push ahead on a ban on the use of e-cigs in public places.... basically the same ban as on normal cigs.... The new tobacco and e-cigarette measures will mean: Shops will have to join a register for retailers of tobacco and e-cigarettes - aimed at stopping illegal sales to under-18s It will be an offence to "hand over" tobacco and e-cigarettes to children - and this will include online sales A restricted use of e-cigarettes, banning them in enclosed public spaces and workplaces - this will include lorries and taxis split opinions..... what do you think" The older I get, the more convinced I am that we need less rules and regulations in this country, not more. | |||
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"Presumably everyone who is in favour of a ban on e-cigs or tobacco is also in favour of a ban on alcohol. " | |||
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"Presumably everyone who is in favour of a ban on e-cigs or tobacco is also in favour of a ban on alcohol. "Folk do not die of passive alcohol what a stupid response I assume you are smoker. | |||
"the welsh assembly have push ahead on a ban on the use of e-cigs in public places.... basically the same ban as on normal cigs.... The new tobacco and e-cigarette measures will mean: Shops will have to join a register for retailers of tobacco and e-cigarettes - aimed at stopping illegal sales to under-18s It will be an offence to "hand over" tobacco and e-cigarettes to children - and this will include online sales A restricted use of e-cigarettes, banning them in enclosed public spaces and workplaces - this will include lorries and taxis split opinions..... what do you think The older I get, the more convinced I am that we need less rules and regulations in this country, not more." Its about health and lives not regulation. | |||
"I thought all that came out was water vapor so they hardly a public health risk" Water vapour isn't exactly harmless either, it's one of the major GHG. | |||
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"Presumably everyone who is in favour of a ban on e-cigs or tobacco is also in favour of a ban on alcohol.
Folk do not die of passive alcohol what a stupid response I assume you are smoker."no i dont smoke ,you should have looked at our profile | |||
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"I totally support the ban...!!! " me too! Smoking is smoking. Was recently at a pub and the people on the next table were "smoking" and my 1 year old took an instant interest every time they blew out the vapor... I was not amused and asked them to please go outside.  | |||
"I totally support the ban...!!! me too! Smoking is smoking. Was recently at a pub and the people on the next table were "smoking" and my 1 year old took an instant interest every time they blew out the vapor... I was not amused and asked them to please go outside. " | |||
" But for me, vapers are people who smoke something other than cigarettes and I've simply not got the patience to wait for a fuck until they're finished That's all " I feel exactly the same way. | |||
"I totally support the ban...!!! me too! Smoking is smoking. Was recently at a pub and the people on the next table were "smoking" and my 1 year old took an instant interest every time they blew out the vapor... I was not amused and asked them to please go outside. " surely people can still get the benefit from it outside with a less harmful impact to them than smoking anyway. So just go outside basically in public. | |||
"I totally support the ban...!!! me too! Smoking is smoking. Was recently at a pub and the people on the next table were "smoking" and my 1 year old took an instant interest every time they blew out the vapor... I was not amused and asked them to please go outside. "Or maybe you could have, as they were perfectly within their rights to do it inside. Did they go or refuse? Perhaps a better route would be to educate your daughter rather than try to hide her from it. | |||
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"Regardless of "What" you are "smoking" - I don't so ergo I don't want to inhale anything I don't have to. If you want to - that is fine - your CHOICE. But I haven't chosen too and therefore I don't want to inhale whatever the hell it is that you've just exhaled - be it water vapour or otherwise. Just because certain ingredients are harmless and in other products does not make them so once you pass it over the element in an e-cig to make it into a vapour you can inhale. I can think of quite a few very harmless things that when heated you really, really do not want to be around... especially if they happen to be combined with other very harmless things......" Not smoking. If it was smoking it would be covered by the current smoking ban. It covers tobacco, of which there is none en e cigs. Incidentally there is also no smoke. Call it what you want, but it's not smoking, either practically or under the law. | |||
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"Regardless of "What" you are "smoking" - I don't so ergo I don't want to inhale anything I don't have to. If you want to - that is fine - your CHOICE. But I haven't chosen too and therefore I don't want to inhale whatever the hell it is that you've just exhaled - be it water vapour or otherwise. Just because certain ingredients are harmless and in other products does not make them so once you pass it over the element in an e-cig to make it into a vapour you can inhale. I can think of quite a few very harmless things that when heated you really, really do not want to be around... especially if they happen to be combined with other very harmless things......" Also yes you are free to choose to not be around it. But if the person vaping is within their rights to be where they are, you don't have the right to tell them to move. But you are free to move yourself. Don't forget the person vaping also has the right not to be around smokers and traffic fumes. Just so I'm clear, if I visit someone's house I always check first and respect their wishes. I'm hardly a vaping rights activist. But in public places if I'm obeying the law, my rights are protected as much as yours. | |||
"I totally support the ban...!!! me too! Smoking is smoking. Was recently at a pub and the people on the next table were "smoking" and my 1 year old took an instant interest every time they blew out the vapor... I was not amused and asked them to please go outside.
Or maybe you could have, as they were perfectly within their rights to do it inside.
Did they go or refuse?
Perhaps a better route would be to educate your daughter rather than try to hide her from it."she will have a very good education about it as she's lost both great grandfathers to smoking induced lung cancer. But she also needs to know that it's quite an anti social behavior these days, and they aren't toys, but potentially quite harmful. She's 1 year old, theres not a lot she will understand about it at the moment, other than whether it's socially acceptable or not. And I view it as not. My brothers smoke them, and I also tell them to do it elsewhere around her. You could also argue that smoking bans are also ignorance, not needed, and people should be better educated? | |||
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"I think I will start a crusade to ban alcoholics, they are more anti-social than smoking, they break up families,cause fights in pubs and outside them. "
Obviously this is true
But alcoholics fumes dont fill other people's lungs with toxic poisons like benzine now do they?
Oh yes that's smokers
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" There may just be a lot of anecdotal evidence; I'd prefer more scientific trials; but in the meantime you can go take those pipes outside thank you "Or alternatively you could just leave. | |||
"I find it interesting that there is lot advertising etc re e cigs and various flavours yet little info on chemicals involved." There are only 4 ingredients. | |||
" There may just be a lot of anecdotal evidence; I'd prefer more scientific trials; but in the meantime you can go take those pipes outside thank you
Or alternatively you could just leave."But why should I have to put up with someone blowing smoke/ vapour over me and my family ?  | |||
" There may just be a lot of anecdotal evidence; I'd prefer more scientific trials; but in the meantime you can go take those pipes outside thank you
Or alternatively you could just leave."Why should someones behaviour force someone else to leave? | |||
" There may just be a lot of anecdotal evidence; I'd prefer more scientific trials; but in the meantime you can go take those pipes outside thank you
Or alternatively you could just leave.
But why should I have to put up with someone blowing smoke/ vapour over me and my family ? "That's the point I'm making. You have the choice of whether to stay around it or not just as they have a right to vape or not. | |||
" There may just be a lot of anecdotal evidence; I'd prefer more scientific trials; but in the meantime you can go take those pipes outside thank you
Or alternatively you could just leave.
Why should someones behaviour force someone else to leave?"They are breaking no laws so by the same token why should someone who vapes have to leave because someone else doesn't like it? | |||
" There may just be a lot of anecdotal evidence; I'd prefer more scientific trials; but in the meantime you can go take those pipes outside thank you
Or alternatively you could just leave.
Why should someones behaviour force someone else to leave?
They are breaking no laws so by the same token why should someone who vapes have to leave because someone else doesn't like it?"Because forcing someone else to leave a place through your own behaviour is basically being an anti-social dick. | |||
"No its not ott there has not been enough testing done to prove they are safe. Imagine this lets suppose someone becomes ill and not saying would happen it could be linked to e cigs then the industry would have serious issues with lots putting claims on ie passive smoking as happened with cancer sticks. No one knows what chemicals are actually used in e cigs folk are falling for the flavours and not thinking it through. Safety first as until proven by experts and clear labelling as to chemicals used which lets face it could be carcogenic. Folk think its cool like a fashion accessory its ridiculous. Despite what folk think its banned in government buildings etc because they could be open in time to litigation and if folk cannot cope without a ciggie for while whilst indoors it says a lot really. " | |||
"No its not ott there has not been enough testing done to prove they are safe. Imagine this lets suppose someone becomes ill and not saying would happen it could be linked to e cigs then the industry would have serious issues with lots putting claims on ie passive smoking as happened with cancer sticks. No one knows what chemicals are actually used in e cigs folk are falling for the flavours and not thinking it through. Safety first as until proven by experts and clear labelling as to chemicals used which lets face it could be carcogenic. Folk think its cool like a fashion accessory its ridiculous. Despite what folk think its banned in government buildings etc because they could be open in time to litigation and if folk cannot cope without a ciggie for while whilst indoors it says a lot really. " | |||
" There may just be a lot of anecdotal evidence; I'd prefer more scientific trials; but in the meantime you can go take those pipes outside thank you
Or alternatively you could just leave.
Why should someones behaviour force someone else to leave?
They are breaking no laws so by the same token why should someone who vapes have to leave because someone else doesn't like it?
Because forcing someone else to leave a place through your own behaviour is basically being an anti-social dick."As is taking the moral high ground and forcing a vaper to leave when there's no evidence to suggest it's anymore harmful than breathing. | |||
" As is taking the moral high ground and forcing a vaper to leave when there's no evidence to suggest it's anymore harmful than breathing." The difference is that no one is forcing the vaper to leave. They're saying 'could you do it outside and then come back in please?'. The chemical scents make me feel queasy. I do not like sitting near them. If someone vapes near me I have to move. That has meant leaving dinner half way through without finishing before - just because someone can't spend an hour indoors without sucking on scented nicotine. | |||
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" As is taking the moral high ground and forcing a vaper to leave when there's no evidence to suggest it's anymore harmful than breathing. The difference is that no one is forcing the vaper to leave. They're saying 'could you do it outside and then come back in please?'. The chemical scents make me feel queasy. I do not like sitting near them. If someone vapes near me I have to move. That has meant leaving dinner half way through without finishing before - just because someone can't spend an hour indoors without sucking on scented nicotine." I don't believe anyone should vape where people are eating out of common courtesy but I don't see why Vapers should be forced to leave bars or pubs. The way I see it is if you are going to have your kids around alcohol then accept people are going to be vaping. | |||
" As is taking the moral high ground and forcing a vaper to leave when there's no evidence to suggest it's anymore harmful than breathing. The difference is that no one is forcing the vaper to leave. They're saying 'could you do it outside and then come back in please?'. The chemical scents make me feel queasy. I do not like sitting near them. If someone vapes near me I have to move. That has meant leaving dinner half way through without finishing before - just because someone can't spend an hour indoors without sucking on scented nicotine." Like I have said earlier . I am on 0 % nicotine so basically it's scented steam. Maybe I should just not breath ? | |||
" As is taking the moral high ground and forcing a vaper to leave when there's no evidence to suggest it's anymore harmful than breathing. The difference is that no one is forcing the vaper to leave. They're saying 'could you do it outside and then come back in please?'. The chemical scents make me feel queasy. I do not like sitting near them. If someone vapes near me I have to move. That has meant leaving dinner half way through without finishing before - just because someone can't spend an hour indoors without sucking on scented nicotine. Like I have said earlier . I am on 0 % nicotine so basically it's scented steam. Maybe I should just not breath ? " When you breath normally... does it smell of all kinds of weird chemically concoctions and come out in a puff of steam? Cause if it does, I'd get a doctor to take a look at that... | |||
"I'm for this, as people do it not to quit just to be lazy. " yeah right mate | |||
" I don't believe anyone should vape where people are eating out of common courtesy but I don't see why Vapers should be forced to leave bars or pubs. The way I see it is if you are going to have your kids around alcohol then accept people are going to be vaping. " What about adults who don't get on with the chemical scents though? Should they have to stay home because you insist on putting the vape steam into their air? | |||
" As is taking the moral high ground and forcing a vaper to leave when there's no evidence to suggest it's anymore harmful than breathing. The difference is that no one is forcing the vaper to leave. They're saying 'could you do it outside and then come back in please?'. The chemical scents make me feel queasy. I do not like sitting near them. If someone vapes near me I have to move. That has meant leaving dinner half way through without finishing before - just because someone can't spend an hour indoors without sucking on scented nicotine. Like I have said earlier . I am on 0 % nicotine so basically it's scented steam. Maybe I should just not breath ? " It's basically steam. If it's that dangerous I best go outside to boil a kettle to make tea and coffee. | |||
" As is taking the moral high ground and forcing a vaper to leave when there's no evidence to suggest it's anymore harmful than breathing. The difference is that no one is forcing the vaper to leave. They're saying 'could you do it outside and then come back in please?'. The chemical scents make me feel queasy. I do not like sitting near them. If someone vapes near me I have to move. That has meant leaving dinner half way through without finishing before - just because someone can't spend an hour indoors without sucking on scented nicotine. Like I have said earlier . I am on 0 % nicotine so basically it's scented steam. Maybe I should just not breath ? When you breath normally... does it smell of all kinds of weird chemically concoctions and come out in a puff of steam? Cause if it does, I'd get a doctor to take a look at that..." oh it's the puff of steam that offends ? | |||
" As is taking the moral high ground and forcing a vaper to leave when there's no evidence to suggest it's anymore harmful than breathing. The difference is that no one is forcing the vaper to leave. They're saying 'could you do it outside and then come back in please?'. The chemical scents make me feel queasy. I do not like sitting near them. If someone vapes near me I have to move. That has meant leaving dinner half way through without finishing before - just because someone can't spend an hour indoors without sucking on scented nicotine. Like I have said earlier . I am on 0 % nicotine so basically it's scented steam. Maybe I should just not breath ? It's basically steam. If it's that dangerous I best go outside to boil a kettle to make tea and coffee." yeah don't make flavoured tea. For god sake  | |||
" As is taking the moral high ground and forcing a vaper to leave when there's no evidence to suggest it's anymore harmful than breathing. The difference is that no one is forcing the vaper to leave. They're saying 'could you do it outside and then come back in please?'. The chemical scents make me feel queasy. I do not like sitting near them. If someone vapes near me I have to move. That has meant leaving dinner half way through without finishing before - just because someone can't spend an hour indoors without sucking on scented nicotine. Like I have said earlier . I am on 0 % nicotine so basically it's scented steam. Maybe I should just not breath ? When you breath normally... does it smell of all kinds of weird chemically concoctions and come out in a puff of steam? Cause if it does, I'd get a doctor to take a look at that... oh it's the puff of steam that offends ?" You seem to be repeatedly ignoring the bit about the smell. | |||
" I don't believe anyone should vape where people are eating out of common courtesy but I don't see why Vapers should be forced to leave bars or pubs. The way I see it is if you are going to have your kids around alcohol then accept people are going to be vaping. What about adults who don't get on with the chemical scents though? Should they have to stay home because you insist on putting the vape steam into their air?" Get on with scents? Not every person in a bar smokes. You could ask kindly if they'd mind moving or indeed move yourself. I'm sure there's worse smells in a bar than vape. I don't smoke or vape by the way. | |||
" I don't believe anyone should vape where people are eating out of common courtesy but I don't see why Vapers should be forced to leave bars or pubs. The way I see it is if you are going to have your kids around alcohol then accept people are going to be vaping. What about adults who don't get on with the chemical scents though? Should they have to stay home because you insist on putting the vape steam into their air? Get on with scents? Not every person in a bar smokes. You could ask kindly if they'd mind moving or indeed move yourself. I'm sure there's worse smells in a bar than vape. I don't smoke or vape by the way." As I said above, I've left before due to the smell. But if you ask a vaper to move outside to vape then you're likely to get a torrent of abuse about how it's 'just scented steam'. | |||
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" As is taking the moral high ground and forcing a vaper to leave when there's no evidence to suggest it's anymore harmful than breathing. The difference is that no one is forcing the vaper to leave. They're saying 'could you do it outside and then come back in please?'. The chemical scents make me feel queasy. I do not like sitting near them. If someone vapes near me I have to move. That has meant leaving dinner half way through without finishing before - just because someone can't spend an hour indoors without sucking on scented nicotine." | |||
" I don't believe anyone should vape where people are eating out of common courtesy but I don't see why Vapers should be forced to leave bars or pubs. The way I see it is if you are going to have your kids around alcohol then accept people are going to be vaping. What about adults who don't get on with the chemical scents though? Should they have to stay home because you insist on putting the vape steam into their air? Get on with scents? Not every person in a bar smokes. You could ask kindly if they'd mind moving or indeed move yourself. I'm sure there's worse smells in a bar than vape. I don't smoke or vape by the way. As I said above, I've left before due to the smell. But if you ask a vaper to move outside to vape then you're likely to get a torrent of abuse about how it's 'just scented steam'." You don't like the smell? | |||
"Oh sorry. I vape spearmint. Yeah disgusting smell "Don't get me wrong, I love the smell of mint. But what comes out of those vape cigarettes? That's chemical. Not natural smell. It doesn't smell anything like a real mint plant, it smells of chemicals. | |||
" You don't like the smell? " I have allergies to some chemicals that are used to produce fake scents - if someone sprays Lynx in the room I have to leave or I feel so nauseous I can't do anything anyway. Some vape scents have the same effect to me (and many others). They make the environment impossible to stay in. | |||
"The children and alcohol thing doesn't really hold up. As in most public houses under 14's aren't allowed at the bar. So exposure is limited. In restaurants, offices, enclosed public transportation it is a no contest the restriction makes sense. If your on 0% why do it? " Most of the pubs around me allow kids. | |||
" You don't like the smell? I have allergies to some chemicals that are used to produce fake scents - if someone sprays Lynx in the room I have to leave or I feel so nauseous I can't do anything anyway. Some vape scents have the same effect to me (and many others). They make the environment impossible to stay in." My Ex was like that with spray on's. I'm sure if you told someone you were allergic they would have enough respect to vape elsewhere. | |||
"Oh sorry. I vape spearmint. Yeah disgusting smell
Don't get me wrong, I love the smell of mint.
But what comes out of those vape cigarettes? That's chemical. Not natural smell. It doesn't smell anything like a real mint plant, it smells of chemicals."most vapours sit in a corner in a pub and vape discreetly even though it is mostly allowed. I would never sit Vaping if I thought it was upsetting someone | |||
" My Ex was like that with spray on's. I'm sure if you told someone you were allergic they would have enough respect to vape elsewhere." How about... people who want to make the air smell of chemicals just do it outside... and then other people don't have to discuss their medical history with strangers? | |||
" My Ex was like that with spray on's. I'm sure if you told someone you were allergic they would have enough respect to vape elsewhere. How about... people who want to make the air smell of chemicals just do it outside... and then other people don't have to discuss their medical history with strangers?" Don't think we'll ever agree on this one. Some people are allergic to perfume but I doubt they'd expect everyone wearing it to go outside. | |||
" My Ex was like that with spray on's. I'm sure if you told someone you were allergic they would have enough respect to vape elsewhere. How about... people who want to make the air smell of chemicals just do it outside... and then other people don't have to discuss their medical history with strangers? Don't think we'll ever agree on this one. Some people are allergic to perfume but I doubt they'd expect everyone wearing it to go outside." No, I don't expect people wearing perfume to leave. However I do leave myself if someone comes in wearing alot of it. But vaping seems to affect a much larger area. And heavy perfume wearing is certainly on the decrease, while vaping is on the increase. | |||
" My Ex was like that with spray on's. I'm sure if you told someone you were allergic they would have enough respect to vape elsewhere. How about... people who want to make the air smell of chemicals just do it outside... and then other people don't have to discuss their medical history with strangers? Don't think we'll ever agree on this one. Some people are allergic to perfume but I doubt they'd expect everyone wearing it to go outside. No, I don't expect people wearing perfume to leave. However I do leave myself if someone comes in wearing alot of it. But vaping seems to affect a much larger area. And heavy perfume wearing is certainly on the decrease, while vaping is on the increase." Increased vaping means less actual smokers and cleaner air. Ever cloud and all that. | |||
" My Ex was like that with spray on's. I'm sure if you told someone you were allergic they would have enough respect to vape elsewhere. How about... people who want to make the air smell of chemicals just do it outside... and then other people don't have to discuss their medical history with strangers? Don't think we'll ever agree on this one. Some people are allergic to perfume but I doubt they'd expect everyone wearing it to go outside. No, I don't expect people wearing perfume to leave. However I do leave myself if someone comes in wearing alot of it. But vaping seems to affect a much larger area. And heavy perfume wearing is certainly on the decrease, while vaping is on the increase. Increased vaping means less actual smokers and cleaner air. Ever cloud and all that." *every | |||
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"split opinions..... what do you think" I don't live in Wales so *shrug*. | |||
"Presumably everyone who is in favour of a ban on e-cigs or tobacco is also in favour of a ban on alcohol.
Folk do not die of passive alcohol what a stupid response I assume you are smoker."I am not a smoker but I like a drink and my response is not stupid if you think about it. The reason I asked is because in my opinion alcohol causes more damage to society at large. | |||
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"the welsh assembly have push ahead on a ban on the use of e-cigs in public places.... basically the same ban as on normal cigs.... The new tobacco and e-cigarette measures will mean: Shops will have to join a register for retailers of tobacco and e-cigarettes - aimed at stopping illegal sales to under-18s It will be an offence to "hand over" tobacco and e-cigarettes to children - and this will include online sales A restricted use of e-cigarettes, banning them in enclosed public spaces and workplaces - this will include lorries and taxis split opinions..... what do you think" Will they also be banning the use of smoke machines too? The liquid in e cigs is made of the same stuff as smoke machines used in entertainment, so if they ban e cigs they should be banned too | |||
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"Stars in your eyes will be even shitter then with no smoke" will smell better. Bubblegum steam is nice | |||
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"Presumably everyone who is in favour of a ban on e-cigs or tobacco is also in favour of a ban on alcohol.
Folk do not die of passive alcohol what a stupid response I assume you are smoker."Many people die each year form passive alcohol. What do you think those killed and maimed by d*unk drivers have died of? The effects of alcohol consumed by a third party! | |||
"Presumably everyone who is in favour of a ban on e-cigs or tobacco is also in favour of a ban on alcohol.
Folk do not die of passive alcohol what a stupid response I assume you are smoker.
Many people die each year form passive alcohol.
What do you think those killed and maimed by d*unk drivers have died of?
The effects of alcohol consumed by a third party!
"
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"Instead of looking at people who vape as lepors Look at them as someone who have had a nasty disgusting habit for most of there life. And are trying to do something less harmful " Except it's now become fashionable to take up vaping when you're never smoked. So you've got people taking up a habit which we don't know the dangers of yet. Because they think it looks cool. | |||
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"Recently gave up smoking after first moving on to vaping and then stopping altogether. Was it the ecig that helped? Maybe and if so we need to stop demonising them and do the research need to establish their safe. I don't know seems like the high street will have a few more empty shops once again and pubs will end up losing those people who had only just started returning. That's ok though as mean 1 yr olds will be able to stare in delight at people drinking pints instead of vapers. " | |||
"Instead of looking at people who vape as lepors Look at them as someone who have had a nasty disgusting habit for most of there life. And are trying to do something less harmful Except it's now become fashionable to take up vaping when you're never smoked. So you've got people taking up a habit which we don't know the dangers of yet. Because they think it looks cool." This is just rubbish - where did you get the evidence for this? | |||
"Instead of looking at people who vape as lepors Look at them as someone who have had a nasty disgusting habit for most of there life. And are trying to do something less harmful Except it's now become fashionable to take up vaping when you're never smoked. So you've got people taking up a habit which we don't know the dangers of yet. Because they think it looks cool. This is just rubbish - where did you get the evidence for this? " Some of my friends kids, and one of my friends. | |||
"Instead of looking at people who vape as lepors Look at them as someone who have had a nasty disgusting habit for most of there life. And are trying to do something less harmful Except it's now become fashionable to take up vaping when you're never smoked. So you've got people taking up a habit which we don't know the dangers of yet. Because they think it looks cool. This is just rubbish - where did you get the evidence for this? Some of my friends kids, and one of my friends. " So just a few of the many people you probably know. You're scaremongering and possibly putting at risk people's efforts to eventually give up. Do you always discriminate against people's life choices because you disapprove? | |||
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"Instead of looking at people who vape as lepors Look at them as someone who have had a nasty disgusting habit for most of there life. And are trying to do something less harmful Except it's now become fashionable to take up vaping when you're never smoked. So you've got people taking up a habit which we don't know the dangers of yet. Because they think it looks cool. This is just rubbish - where did you get the evidence for this? Some of my friends kids, and one of my friends. So just a few of the many people you probably know. You're scaremongering and possibly putting at risk people's efforts to eventually give up. Do you always discriminate against people's life choices because you disapprove?" I just said it's becoming fashionable to take it up - which I think could potentially be a problem if it spreads and becomes more mainstream. I didn't say anything to discriminate against other peoples life choices. Just that I was frustrated that some people are taking up vapeing because it's fashionable. | |||
"Ok, so much ignorance and tripe spouted here. Firstly, let's define terms. It's not smoking as there's no smoke, no combustion products, none of the carcinogenic polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons found in all smoke from organic material, whether it be tobacco or lettuce. It is vaping. You may consider it to be smoking, but you'd be wrong. No-one is suggesting it's good for you, just that it's a whole lot less bad. Studies thus far show that the uptake by non smokers and minors is negligible - sure some will try it, a few more might become habitual users, but they're the ones who will also try smoking. The liquid ingredients are known and tightly controlled if you use reputable suppliers - I would welcome more regulation in this area. The chief ingredients are either propylene glycol and or vegetable glycerin, with some nicotine and flavourings. Propylene glycol is used as an anti-freeze, it's also in mouthwash and used as a humectant in dried food, it is considered a safe chemical. It is also used in the fake dry ice you get at gigs or in the theatre - so there's your test group right there - people who work in those environments night after night - the stuff in e-cigs is pharmaceutical grade, the stuff in dry ice is only industrial grade. As a smoking cessation aid there is massive anecdotal and empirical evidence to show that it is far more effective than any other method. Personally, it enabled me to quit a 35 year 40 a day rollup habit - I've had literally 2 or 3 cigarettes in the last 4 years, and none for over 2 years. As far as I'm concerned they are a godsend. Fitness levels have improved tremendously and sense of smell has improved. So yes, I do get that people don't want to be surrounded by smoke or vapour, and I've been expecting the ban for a while, now that e-cigs are well and truly on the radar. Other countries will follow suit, it's inevitable, but thankfully, whilst I still vape, I can abstain comfortably for extended periods in a way that I was never able to do with smoking. In a way, I welcome the ban, as it will force me to cut down on my vaping. " I think one of the main parts of your post that is a worry is the reputable suppliers, rather a lot of shop keepers don't care where their stock comes from and who they sell to, this is evident when you see school children smoking or drinking. Another thing if you don't mind me asking is, since you stopped smoking have you been vaping? | |||
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" I think one of the main parts of your post that is a worry is the reputable suppliers, rather a lot of shop keepers don't care where their stock comes from and who they sell to, this is evident when you see school children smoking or drinking. Another thing if you don't mind me asking is, since you stopped smoking have you been vaping?" Yes, I vape as a substitute, not perfect but much better than smoking. As I said above, I'd welcome more regulation quality wise - I only buy from reputable suppliers. I agree that e-cigs should not be sold to minors. | |||
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"Until there is any real evidence that they do any harm, any move to ban them is quite simply illegal. They are not tobacco products and therefore cannot fall under tobacco laws. Typical Labour bullying tactics. " Whats Labour got to do with it? | |||
"It's a terrible idea. Why penalise those who have/are trying to quit. They should be making alternatives easier. Now those trying using e cigs will have to go outside with the smokers. That's hardly fair given they are trying to improve their health, to but them back near the smoke to breathe in. Near the passive smoking and the temptation. I'm sure big tobacco companies have had some influence here. For those questioning their safety, the main ingredients are safe for human consumption, and are found in ice cream, and other food stuffs. The question that remains is whether baling is safe. But considering the alternative of smoking they are far far safer. Finally, studies on mice have shown that those breathing in the vapour as well as being exposed to a virus showed a lower infection rate than those breathing just air." could you expantiate on two things pls, 1 - the constituents of the e cigarette vapour that you reckon is safe for human consumption and 2 - the virus that the mice were exposed to while inhaling yhe e-cigarette vapour. Specify pls  | |||
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"Presumably everyone who is in favour of a ban on e-cigs or tobacco is also in favour of a ban on alcohol.
Folk do not die of passive alcohol what a stupid response I assume you are smoker."Really? D*unk drivers, d*unks starting fights, or d*unks burning down their terraced house or flat with their neighbours in trying to cook etc. Anyway the smell of e cigs annoys me but there isn't really much health merit to this law it's just the Welsh assembly trying to be important and relevant yet again. Like the tax on bags which weirdly includes biodegradable paper bags.. | |||
"It's a terrible idea. Why penalise those who have/are trying to quit. They should be making alternatives easier. Now those trying using e cigs will have to go outside with the smokers. That's hardly fair given they are trying to improve their health, to but them back near the smoke to breathe in. Near the passive smoking and the temptation. I'm sure big tobacco companies have had some influence here. For those questioning their safety, the main ingredients are safe for human consumption, and are found in ice cream, and other food stuffs. The question that remains is whether baling is safe. But considering the alternative of smoking they are far far safer. Finally, studies on mice have shown that those breathing in the vapour as well as being exposed to a virus showed a lower infection rate than those breathing just air." Just to point out mice are only a useful analogue for humans for some specific brain related things (weird huh not the organ you were expecting I bet) for everything else they react so differently they're basically useless as a comparison. | |||
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"It's a terrible idea. Why penalise those who have/are trying to quit. They should be making alternatives easier. Now those trying using e cigs will have to go outside with the smokers. That's hardly fair given they are trying to improve their health, to but them back near the smoke to breathe in. Near the passive smoking and the temptation. I'm sure big tobacco companies have had some influence here. For those questioning their safety, the main ingredients are safe for human consumption, and are found in ice cream, and other food stuffs. The question that remains is whether baling is safe. But considering the alternative of smoking they are far far safer. Finally, studies on mice have shown that those breathing in the vapour as well as being exposed to a virus showed a lower infection rate than those breathing just air. could you expantiate on two things pls, 1 - the constituents of the e cigarette vapour that you reckon is safe for human consumption and 2 - the virus that the mice were exposed to while inhaling yhe e-cigarette vapour. Specify pls "I was referring to the PG, propylene glycol, it's found in several foods and medicines and air sanitisers. http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/jam.2007.0626 Study on its use as a delivery method for patients with respiratory complaints. http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ipcsneng/neng0321.html Us govt information on pg, note the lack of hazard next to inhalation. http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDOWCOM/dh_08ea/0901b803808eabba.pdf?filepath=productsafety/pdfs/noreg/233-00248.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc Information on pg and it's uses. Industrial grade though, couldn't find pharma grade. Couldn't see the study on mice easily, I'll have a proper look when on laptop not phone. There is more available, pg is a highly used chemical, the fact people are only concerned about it for e cigs and not about any of the other ways they have consumed it really highlights the fact this is just ill informed hysteria. | |||
"It's a terrible idea. Why penalise those who have/are trying to quit. They should be making alternatives easier. Now those trying using e cigs will have to go outside with the smokers. That's hardly fair given they are trying to improve their health, to but them back near the smoke to breathe in. Near the passive smoking and the temptation. I'm sure big tobacco companies have had some influence here. For those questioning their safety, the main ingredients are safe for human consumption, and are found in ice cream, and other food stuffs. The question that remains is whether baling is safe. But considering the alternative of smoking they are far far safer. Finally, studies on mice have shown that those breathing in the vapour as well as being exposed to a virus showed a lower infection rate than those breathing just air. could you expantiate on two things pls, 1 - the constituents of the e cigarette vapour that you reckon is safe for human consumption and 2 - the virus that the mice were exposed to while inhaling yhe e-cigarette vapour. Specify pls
I was referring to the PG, propylene glycol, it's found in several foods and medicines and air sanitisers.
http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/jam.2007.0626
Study on its use as a delivery method for patients with respiratory complaints.
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ipcsneng/neng0321.html
Us govt information on pg, note the lack of hazard next to inhalation.
http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDOWCOM/dh_08ea/0901b803808eabba.pdf?filepath=productsafety/pdfs/noreg/233-00248.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc
Information on pg and it's uses. Industrial grade though, couldn't find pharma grade.
Couldn't see the study on mice easily, I'll have a proper look when on laptop not phone.
There is more available, pg is a highly used chemical, the fact people are only concerned about it for e cigs and not about any of the other ways they have consumed it really highlights the fact this is just ill informed hysteria.
"Is it ill informed hysteria? I mean once apon a time people thought asbestos was safe for years until it was linked to cancer. I think the problem people don't often think of is some chemicals are safe but mixed together or/and turned into a vapour could be dangerous over time but then again could be safe. Maybe what needs to be done is possible health warnings and the oils/liquids regulated like normal cigarettes to stop unscrupulous shopkeepers selling dodgy gear which could be dangerous. | |||
"Good grief, what a sad and sterile world we're heading towards. " | |||
"It's a terrible idea. Why penalise those who have/are trying to quit. They should be making alternatives easier. Now those trying using e cigs will have to go outside with the smokers. That's hardly fair given they are trying to improve their health, to but them back near the smoke to breathe in. Near the passive smoking and the temptation. I'm sure big tobacco companies have had some influence here. For those questioning their safety, the main ingredients are safe for human consumption, and are found in ice cream, and other food stuffs. The question that remains is whether baling is safe. But considering the alternative of smoking they are far far safer. Finally, studies on mice have shown that those breathing in the vapour as well as being exposed to a virus showed a lower infection rate than those breathing just air. could you expantiate on two things pls, 1 - the constituents of the e cigarette vapour that you reckon is safe for human consumption and 2 - the virus that the mice were exposed to while inhaling yhe e-cigarette vapour. Specify pls
I was referring to the PG, propylene glycol, it's found in several foods and medicines and air sanitisers.
http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/jam.2007.0626
Study on its use as a delivery method for patients with respiratory complaints.
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ipcsneng/neng0321.html
Us govt information on pg, note the lack of hazard next to inhalation.
http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDOWCOM/dh_08ea/0901b803808eabba.pdf?filepath=productsafety/pdfs/noreg/233-00248.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc
Information on pg and it's uses. Industrial grade though, couldn't find pharma grade.
Couldn't see the study on mice easily, I'll have a proper look when on laptop not phone.
There is more available, pg is a highly used chemical, the fact people are only concerned about it for e cigs and not about any of the other ways they have consumed it really highlights the fact this is just ill informed hysteria.
Is it ill informed hysteria? I mean once apon a time people thought asbestos was safe for years until it was linked to cancer. I think the problem people don't often think of is some chemicals are safe but mixed together or/and turned into a vapour could be dangerous over time but then again could be safe. Maybe what needs to be done is possible health warnings and the oils/liquids regulated like normal cigarettes to stop unscrupulous shopkeepers selling dodgy gear which could be dangerous. "I agree with both points, regulation is a good idea to prevent dangerous chemicals getting into the supply. Ban sales to minors(should be a given), and maybe a bit of tax to keep the govt happy. But banning them in public places is counterproductive. As an alternative to tobacco they should be encouraged, there may be doubts about their content in some cases, and may always be those who despise them. But there is no doubt that they are significantly less harmful than tobacco smoke. Until then a little bit of research to inform yourself on what you are buying will be more than adequate for most users. Or if you're really paranoid, buy the raw ingredients and make your own, it's much cheaper too. | |||
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"I remember when Skol bandits were all the rage and deemed safe too, anyone else ?" . Skol bandits?.. bandits that are pissed up on skol are rarely safe! | |||
"Until there is any real evidence that they do any harm, any move to ban them is quite simply illegal. They are not tobacco products and therefore cannot fall under tobacco laws. Typical Labour bullying tactics. Whats Labour got to do with it?" The Welsh Assembley (their 'parliament') is Labour. Come on, keep up | |||
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" But banning them in public places is counterproductive. As an alternative to tobacco they should be encouraged, there may be doubts about their content in some cases, and may always be those who despise them. But there is no doubt that they are significantly less harmful than tobacco smoke. ." That's the most important point to me - despite the fact that it is considered 'unproven' as an aid in cessation, many, many people seem to have been successful in getting OFF smoking tobacco, even if they are not entirely off nicotine, and for that reason alone I think their use must be strongly supported. Millions of people's lives could be saved by them. After a survey of PubMed abstracts the consensus seems to me to be that whilst further data is required on long term safety and indoor air quality, it is unquestionably beneficial for smokers to switch. | |||
" But banning them in public places is counterproductive. As an alternative to tobacco they should be encouraged, there may be doubts about their content in some cases, and may always be those who despise them. But there is no doubt that they are significantly less harmful than tobacco smoke. . That's the most important point to me - despite the fact that it is considered 'unproven' as an aid in cessation, many, many people seem to have been successful in getting OFF smoking tobacco, even if they are not entirely off nicotine, and for that reason alone I think their use must be strongly supported. Millions of people's lives could be saved by them. After a survey of PubMed abstracts the consensus seems to me to be that whilst further data is required on long term safety and indoor air quality, it is unquestionably beneficial for smokers to switch." To be fair it's beneficial to drive an electric car but people won't. The fact is smokers will smoke some will give up (like me) and some will switch. Some non smokers (like me) know how difficult it is being a smoker and won't bat en eyelid then there are others who don't smoke have never smoked and think it's disgusting. What's often forgotten is how much duty there are of cigarettes and how much smokers actually contribute to the tax pot. | |||
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"Until there is any real evidence that they do any harm, any move to ban them is quite simply illegal. They are not tobacco products and therefore cannot fall under tobacco laws. Typical Labour bullying tactics. Whats Labour got to do with it? The Welsh Assembley (their 'parliament') is Labour. Come on, keep up "Do you remember the salmonella poisoning scaremongering of the 90's? I don't recall that being a labour thing unless I'm confused that was Edwina currie and John major! | |||
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"Have non smokers just got the hump cos smokers have discovered a way to recieve their nicotine in a getting around the smoking ban type way? " Nope its not just nicotine in e cigs its the unknown chemicals that vary so much which is and should concern smokers then again for years smokers have known risk of damage caused by smoking so doubt they are wortied about chemicals and possible future impact on others around them. | |||
"Have non smokers just got the hump cos smokers have discovered a way to recieve their nicotine in a getting around the smoking ban type way? Nope its not just nicotine in e cigs its the unknown chemicals that vary so much which is and should concern smokers then again for years smokers have known risk of damage caused by smoking so doubt they are wortied about chemicals and possible future impact on others around them." Wow, whatever chemical you're talking about is so potent it's dissolved your punctuation. | |||
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"I watched two school kids (a boy & a girl) walking along & puffing away the other day. Surely that can't be right?" Depends on 2 factors, perhaps they already smoked and were quitting. Perhaps even their parents bought them for them to help. Secondly how do you know their was nicotine in there? | |||
"Presumably everyone who is in favour of a ban on e-cigs or tobacco is also in favour of a ban on alcohol.
Folk do not die of passive alcohol what a stupid response I assume you are smoker.
Really? D*unk drivers, d*unks starting fights, or d*unks burning down their terraced house or flat with their neighbours in trying to cook etc.
Anyway the smell of e cigs annoys me but there isn't really much health merit to this law it's just the Welsh assembly trying to be important and relevant yet again.
Like the tax on bags which weirdly includes biodegradable paper bags.."yh the tax on carrier bags is a weird one in wales, i was there few weeks ago buying stuff from the corner shop and was shocked i had to pay for a carrier bag . Really strange | |||
"Have non smokers just got the hump cos smokers have discovered a way to recieve their nicotine in a getting around the smoking ban type way? " That is a huge part of it I'm sure, as the objections bear no logical scrutiny. | |||
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although I think it's a good idea if they work for you to stop I don't think the idea is to constantly have it attached to your lips so by all means vape but still protect the youth and have respect for others | |||
"I watched two school kids (a boy & a girl) walking along & puffing away the other day. Surely that can't be right?" I heard one young girl say she took it up (with 0% liquid) as a diet aid! | |||
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"Have non smokers just got the hump cos smokers have discovered a way to recieve their nicotine in a getting around the smoking ban type way? That is a huge part of it I'm sure, as the objections bear no logical scrutiny." | |||
"One of the major manufacturers of e-cigs is Imperial Tobacco, so yeah, there should be some kind of licensing. " who did you really expect to be making them? given that you need to extract the nicotine from tobacco anyway, tobacco companies were always going to be involved. | |||
"Presumably everyone who is in favour of a ban on e-cigs or tobacco is also in favour of a ban on alcohol.
Folk do not die of passive alcohol what a stupid response I assume you are smoker.
Really? D*unk drivers, d*unks starting fights, or d*unks burning down their terraced house or flat with their neighbours in trying to cook etc.
Anyway the smell of e cigs annoys me but there isn't really much health merit to this law it's just the Welsh assembly trying to be important and relevant yet again.
Like the tax on bags which weirdly includes biodegradable paper bags..
yh the tax on carrier bags is a weird one in wales, i was there few weeks ago buying stuff from the corner shop and was shocked i had to pay for a carrier bag . Really strange"you have to pay for a bag at mcdonalds too lol, even the drive through. to get around it they hand you everything individually with the chips in thier own seperate bag (which isnt charged for) | |||
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"the carcinogens in real cicarettes a mixed bag there, but I wonder how many People Includeing true smokers knew That There was a minute amount of arsenic in Cicarettes over time that minute amount I,m sure would build up over time so along with nicotine quite a heavy Combination of chemicals there in large Amounts.. "its not just the chemicals in the cigarettes that are a cancer risk your body changes the type of cells that line your airways to cope with the smoke, now whenever you make your body do major rework like that there is a chance for mistakes to occur the most common mistake your body making in that situation is a broken cancerous cell. | |||
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"One of the major manufacturers of e-cigs is Imperial Tobacco, so yeah, there should be some kind of licensing. who did you really expect to be making them? given that you need to extract the nicotine from tobacco anyway, tobacco companies were always going to be involved." The nicotine is extracted mostly from aubergines - I kid you not, so having a vape can count as one of your healthy 5 a day | |||
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"But alcoholics fumes dont fill other people's lungs with toxic poisons like benzine now do they? Oh yes that's smokers " Actually it's mostly car drivers. | |||
"I totally support the ban...!!! me too! Smoking is smoking. Was recently at a pub and the people on the next table were "smoking" and my 1 year old took an instant interest every time they blew out the vapor... I was not amused and asked them to please go outside. "You were in a pub with à child? | |||
