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HRA 1998 and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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This is more of a curiosity as to what peoples views are. Hypothetically say that the HRA is abolished, the UK would still be governed by the Euorpean convention on Human Rights and its lasting precedent on English common law as well as EU law. We would also still be governed by the Universal Declaration of Human rights which estentially embodies the HRA. My question is to people who support the abolishment of the HRA, do you feel that we should also stop following the Universal Declaration on Human Rights? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Laws are made by governments, often unfortunately in response to media and perceived popularity. don't take your liberty for granted, it's mostly safe in this country, but only mostly
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think the SNP said they'd prevent the Tories scrapping it up here, as Scottish Law is a separate system and a devolved matter they cant fuck about with it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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They don't want to abolish human rights as such the HRA is closely based on the EU HRA, the conservatives just want to replace it with their own HRA as they are leaning towards trying to leave the EU this cutting the ties with the HRA act too, however they haven't really mentions much about a replacement HRA which could take years to create the concerning thing is the time between the abolishment and the creation of a new HRA which could lead to a lot of controversial things done by the government which in normal cases are protected by the HRA |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Thanks, yeah I do know they will replace it with a British Bill of right which in essence will be esentially the same thing as even the tories wouldnt want to get rid of human rights completely. My question was more to do with the fact that one of the main reasons that they want to abolish the HRA is to give British courts "supremacy" and considering the UN treaty on human rights is an exterior entity from the UK courts then our courts will not have supremacy as far as the rhetoric is concerned so I just wondered if people who support this also support getting rid of the UN treaty on human rights. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's nothing to do with supremacy it's to do with the HRA act is essentially the EU HRA act and they are trying to lean towards getting out of the EU they won't replace it with a bill of rights it would be replaced with a British government written HRA act, only know this because my other half majored in human rights and is currently on her second degree in law and soon to move on to her LLM specialising in international human rights |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Dont get me wrong, I also believe it has nothing to do with "supremacy" of our courts as anyone who actually understands our legal system knows that our courts are supreme but the tories manifesto used that as a pretext to allow them to attemlt abolish the HRA, I completely agree with you that it is an attempt to distance us from the EU and the ECHR(2 separate entitites) I was just curious how far people are willing to support this wave of nationalistic prejudice. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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By the way, if it comes across as me being argumentitive that isnt my intention, im currently revising the topic and I want to see the other side of the debate from others perspective so this is helpful  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No we don't see it as argumentative it's a very controversial topic with many good points being said we personally believe it's a stupid move by the Tories the HRA is not something that should be played about with as it opens the government and agency's within the UK to things normally protected under the HRA.
And I noticed I was saying "HRA act" a lot adding the extra act lol |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Haha its an easy mistake to make, its like when people say RIP in peace. Yeah personally I think it is very dangerous to toy with such a foundation of our unwritten constitution especially at a time where national pride is evidently on the rise and as your partner will know, you can change only a few words of an act but that could have serious consequences. Of course as a white English male who is attending uni, I wont have much issues as discrimination is generally not directed in my direction but I know people who are genuinley worried and I dont like the fact that our nation has put people like that on edge. This was all personal opinion of course |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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All I have said now is all I know my wife is the smart one she told me all that stuff lol so unfortunately my debating side is up but good luck in uni exam season now too so I hope they are going well for you, let's just hope the PM and the people of the UK do the right thing and really look in to such an important thing and not just throw their 2 cents in without knowing all the facts I bid you good day good sir |
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I don't understand the mindset of anyone who wants us to remove our Human Rights Act 1998. And then spend a fortune to create some 'British' bill etc.
Too many seem to conflate the word 'Europe', within the Court of Human Rights and our membership of the EU, when they are entirely distinct.
If we opt out of the court, when we were primary instigators of liberties and protections, after the war, would be foolish imo and appear unscrupulous to others around the world. And that would be at a point where we are critical of other countries for their abuses of basic human rights.
The Rights that we have in question include such as the right to life. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I couldnt agree any more with you to be honest. Its pointless, expensive and considering it is already so infused with our common law as well as the Universal treaty on human rights, pretty obsolete. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Any law takes a sentence to write, and a library to create the exceptions. the HRA has been percolating through the courts for decades creating those exceptions under the scrutiny of judges from many countries and cultures.
Nothing that the UK or any other single country can write tomorrow will be as rich and well considered as what we have already.
A few exploitations require legal minds to resolve the fair amendment, not the scrapping of a system to satisfy the baying of the media. |
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"rights is rights!
I am not sure how they can be removed by law!
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Really!
The National Socialist Party of Germany seemed to find it quite easy...
I believe they called their laws the Nuremburg Laws, the South Africans also seemed to find it quiet easy to pass their racial segregation laws, Robert Mugabe didn't seem to have much trouble when he stripped his opponents of their human rights. I could go on and list many other countries, but I hope I have made my point.
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"They don't want to abolish human rights as such the HRA is closely based on the EU HRA, the conservatives just want to replace it with their own HRA as they are leaning towards trying to leave the EU this cutting the ties with the HRA act too, however they haven't really mentions much about a replacement HRA which could take years to create the concerning thing is the time between the abolishment and the creation of a new HRA which could lead to a lot of controversial things done by the government which in normal cases are protected by the HRA "
The ECHR has nothing to do with the EU!
The ECHR is older than the EU.
The ECHR was set up by us and its laws were drawn up by us!
There are 47 states that have ratified the ECHR, there are 28 countries in the EU. How many times does this have to be said before it sinks in that the ECHR and the HRA have no relation to the EU other than you have to be signatories to the ECHR to join the EU.
Sorry for my rant but maybe if people did a little more reading of books and less of the Daily Bile and Torygraph they would be better informed and stop spouting the same crap all the time!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They don't want to abolish human rights as such the HRA is closely based on the EU HRA, the conservatives just want to replace it with their own HRA as they are leaning towards trying to leave the EU this cutting the ties with the HRA act too, however they haven't really mentions much about a replacement HRA which could take years to create the concerning thing is the time between the abolishment and the creation of a new HRA which could lead to a lot of controversial things done by the government which in normal cases are protected by the HRA
The ECHR has nothing to do with the EU!
The ECHR is older than the EU.
The ECHR was set up by us and its laws were drawn up by us!
There are 47 states that have ratified the ECHR, there are 28 countries in the EU. How many times does this have to be said before it sinks in that the ECHR and the HRA have no relation to the EU other than you have to be signatories to the ECHR to join the EU.
Sorry for my rant but maybe if people did a little more reading of books and less of the Daily Bile and Torygraph they would be better informed and stop spouting the same crap all the time!
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And as I said afterwards all I know is kinda what my wife know which is a lot more than me honestly she will talk the hell out of this subject her career goal is specifically in human right law so as you can imagine someone specialising in her subject trying to explain to a truck driver what to all about there is only so much I can register and say as it is wayyyyyyy passed my knowledge |
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