FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Cash in hand payments - wrong or not?
Cash in hand payments - wrong or not?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers? |
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"I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers?"
If something goes wrong, needs fixing or returned you have nothing to fall back on if you have paid cash in hand. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers?
If something goes wrong, needs fixing or returned you have nothing to fall back on if you have paid cash in hand."
Agreed, in this scenario it's a one off service that doesn't need a warranty / guarantee etc but you're right - in other scenarios you can lose your consumer / statutory rights if there's no official record of the transaction so definitely worth proceeding with caution! |
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Honestly just depends what it is.
Any building work avoid cash in hand cowboys like the plague.
If it's second hand furniture from a store probably fine.
Too many cases to go through without knowing the exactly service you've been offered.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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50% less if paid cash ??
Sounds dodgy to me . Tax is 20% , so why would he want to lose another 30%?
Unless he is really desperate to get a job , or he's going to be taking some dosh and doing one !! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Depends on whether you consider the short term benefit or long term hindrance that can arise if it goes a little pear shaped.
Generally, i love saving my hard earned money but not if it'll ultimately cost me more in the long term |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"50% less if paid cash ??
Sounds dodgy to me . Tax is 20% , so why would he want to lose another 30%?
Unless he is really desperate to get a job , or he's going to be taking some dosh and doing one !! "
Don't forget the VAT |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"50% less if paid cash ??
Sounds dodgy to me . Tax is 20% , so why would he want to lose another 30%?
Unless he is really desperate to get a job , or he's going to be taking some dosh and doing one !! "
It's a supplementary service - he works for a company. He can tell them he's done this 'thing' and they'll add £x to my bill (it's their published rate). Or he can do it anyway, not tell them and he gets £x/2 in his back pocket ... the theory is he wins and I win. The company loses (or doesn't know..) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers?"
I told you not to tell anyone of our "arrangement".
Cash in hand for that anal fisting you asked for.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers?
I told you not to tell anyone of our "arrangement".
Cash in hand for that anal fisting you asked for. "
 ah shhh I was trying to be discreet!!  |
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"I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers?"
That is a joke!
Fact is even if on top tax rates (earning over £150000 a year you would pay less tax than is being offered in discount for cash in hand! therefore the only conclusion I can come to is that the git offering you the discount is either committing benefit fraud or conspiring with others to commit benefit fraud. In which case the shit needs catching prosecuting and gaoling!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If it's work that "needs" a receipt like building for if my house fell down after then I would not pay cash in hand no.
If it was a bit of decorating or gardening or something else that can't damage the structure of my home or so on then I would be happy to pay cash for a cheaper quote yeah.
And yes, I would work cash in hand |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers?
That is a joke!
Fact is even if on top tax rates (earning over £150000 a year you would pay less tax than is being offered in discount for cash in hand! therefore the only conclusion I can come to is that the git offering you the discount is either committing benefit fraud or conspiring with others to commit benefit fraud. In which case the shit needs catching prosecuting and gaoling!
"
It's not a benefit fraud thing - and it's quite low value. It's not this, but think of it as very similar : e.g. If you bought a new washing machine and the company was going to charge you £20 to take away and dispose the old one, but the delivery guy said he'd take it away for £10 'off the record'. It's that sort of scenario. And I'm really not talking about about any material value here, just trying to getting a feel of Fabbers morals 
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I've done this before with an engineer that came out to fix a satellite dish, after high winds we had last year sky told me i's need to wait 3 days for an engineer but a friend of a friend (that works for sky) came out and fixed mines and a few other peoples i know for £30 instead of the extortionate prices sky charge to do it. The guy told me when the high winds start he earns an absolute fortune and it normally pays for his famillies christmas, i say fair play to the guy, sky are a total rip off as it stands |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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To be honest you won't actually be getting it 50% off... They will have hiked the price before making the offer
And I have no problem paying cash in hand for most things |
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"I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers?
That is a joke!
Fact is even if on top tax rates (earning over £150000 a year you would pay less tax than is being offered in discount for cash in hand! therefore the only conclusion I can come to is that the git offering you the discount is either committing benefit fraud or conspiring with others to commit benefit fraud. In which case the shit needs catching prosecuting and gaoling!
It's not a benefit fraud thing - and it's quite low value. It's not this, but think of it as very similar : e.g. If you bought a new washing machine and the company was going to charge you £20 to take away and dispose the old one, but the delivery guy said he'd take it away for £10 'off the record'. It's that sort of scenario. And I'm really not talking about about any material value here, just trying to getting a feel of Fabbers morals
"
No it is not! RE read the OP!
the OP was offered a 50% discount if the work was done cash in hand.
If you earn between aprox 7000 and 10000 a year your total tax/ni is 12% on the amount between those figs.
Between 10000 and 31000 it goes up to 32%
Anything between 31000 and 150000 it goes up to 52%
After 150000 it drops to 47%!
If your earning between £31000 and £150000 and are so corrupt your willing to commit NI fraud to save yourself a max of £3400 (and of course have others conspire with you in your fraud) then you need locking up!
Remember ALL conspiracy convictions carry a maximum of life in prison!
I for one would never risk life in prison for 3 grand!
Next time you go offering to work cash in hand you may like to consider exactly the value you are placing on your freedom.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers?
That is a joke!
Fact is even if on top tax rates (earning over £150000 a year you would pay less tax than is being offered in discount for cash in hand! therefore the only conclusion I can come to is that the git offering you the discount is either committing benefit fraud or conspiring with others to commit benefit fraud. In which case the shit needs catching prosecuting and gaoling!
It's not a benefit fraud thing - and it's quite low value. It's not this, but think of it as very similar : e.g. If you bought a new washing machine and the company was going to charge you £20 to take away and dispose the old one, but the delivery guy said he'd take it away for £10 'off the record'. It's that sort of scenario. And I'm really not talking about about any material value here, just trying to getting a feel of Fabbers morals
No it is not! RE read the OP!
the OP was offered a 50% discount if the work was done cash in hand.
If you earn between aprox 7000 and 10000 a year your total tax/ni is 12% on the amount between those figs.
Between 10000 and 31000 it goes up to 32%
Anything between 31000 and 150000 it goes up to 52%
After 150000 it drops to 47%!
If your earning between £31000 and £150000 and are so corrupt your willing to commit NI fraud to save yourself a max of £3400 (and of course have others conspire with you in your fraud) then you need locking up!
Remember ALL conspiracy convictions carry a maximum of life in prison!
I for one would never risk life in prison for 3 grand!
Next time you go offering to work cash in hand you may like to consider exactly the value you are placing on your freedom.
"
I was the OP! A company had provided me with a quote. With small supplementary optional extras. IF I wished to take up one of the optional extras then I have been offered the opportunity to have this at half the quoted cost 'off the record' - I.e. As far as the company was aware, I haven't opted for this extra. The contractor will provide it anyway at half the cost should I decide to proceed.... |
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"I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers?
That is a joke!
Fact is even if on top tax rates (earning over £150000 a year you would pay less tax than is being offered in discount for cash in hand! therefore the only conclusion I can come to is that the git offering you the discount is either committing benefit fraud or conspiring with others to commit benefit fraud. In which case the shit needs catching prosecuting and gaoling!
It's not a benefit fraud thing - and it's quite low value. It's not this, but think of it as very similar : e.g. If you bought a new washing machine and the company was going to charge you £20 to take away and dispose the old one, but the delivery guy said he'd take it away for £10 'off the record'. It's that sort of scenario. And I'm really not talking about about any material value here, just trying to getting a feel of Fabbers morals
No it is not! RE read the OP!
the OP was offered a 50% discount if the work was done cash in hand.
If you earn between aprox 7000 and 10000 a year your total tax/ni is 12% on the amount between those figs.
Between 10000 and 31000 it goes up to 32%
Anything between 31000 and 150000 it goes up to 52%
After 150000 it drops to 47%!
If your earning between £31000 and £150000 and are so corrupt your willing to commit NI fraud to save yourself a max of £3400 (and of course have others conspire with you in your fraud) then you need locking up!
Remember ALL conspiracy convictions carry a maximum of life in prison!
I for one would never risk life in prison for 3 grand!
Next time you go offering to work cash in hand you may like to consider exactly the value you are placing on your freedom.
I was the OP! A company had provided me with a quote. With small supplementary optional extras. IF I wished to take up one of the optional extras then I have been offered the opportunity to have this at half the quoted cost 'off the record' - I.e. As far as the company was aware, I haven't opted for this extra. The contractor will provide it anyway at half the cost should I decide to proceed.... "
Ah, not quite what the original post said...
Guess it is up to you...
but personally I avoid committing or conspiring with others to commit fraud. however there is one thing that you may want to consider in making your mind up:
What happens if something goes wrong and you need to make a claim against the company? Will the fact that you have had extra work done by non authorised people invalidate your legal rights? That is the case usually.
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"
Ah, not quite what the original post said...
Guess it is up to you...
but personally I avoid committing or conspiring with others to commit fraud. however there is one thing that yuou may want to consider in making your mind up:
What happens if something goes wrong and you need to make a claim against the company? Will the fact that you have had extra work done by non authorised people invalidate your legal rights? That is the case usually.
"
Lol.
I haven't really got time to get involved, but even up here in Derbyshire I can hear poor Dan banging his head against the wall!
(He's already covered that point too!!)
Mr ddc |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Ah, not quite what the original post said...
Guess it is up to you...
but personally I avoid committing or conspiring with others to commit fraud. however there is one thing that yuou may want to consider in making your mind up:
What happens if something goes wrong and you need to make a claim against the company? Will the fact that you have had extra work done by non authorised people invalidate your legal rights? That is the case usually.
Lol.
I haven't really got time to get involved, but even up here in Derbyshire I can hear poor Dan banging his head against the wall!
(He's already covered that point too!!)
Mr ddc"
 |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers?
That is a joke!
Fact is even if on top tax rates (earning over £150000 a year you would pay less tax than is being offered in discount for cash in hand! therefore the only conclusion I can come to is that the git offering you the discount is either committing benefit fraud or conspiring with others to commit benefit fraud. In which case the shit needs catching prosecuting and gaoling!
It's not a benefit fraud thing - and it's quite low value. It's not this, but think of it as very similar : e.g. If you bought a new washing machine and the company was going to charge you £20 to take away and dispose the old one, but the delivery guy said he'd take it away for £10 'off the record'. It's that sort of scenario. And I'm really not talking about about any material value here, just trying to getting a feel of Fabbers morals
No it is not! RE read the OP!
the OP was offered a 50% discount if the work was done cash in hand.
If you earn between aprox 7000 and 10000 a year your total tax/ni is 12% on the amount between those figs.
Between 10000 and 31000 it goes up to 32%
Anything between 31000 and 150000 it goes up to 52%
After 150000 it drops to 47%!
If your earning between £31000 and £150000 and are so corrupt your willing to commit NI fraud to save yourself a max of £3400 (and of course have others conspire with you in your fraud) then you need locking up!
Remember ALL conspiracy convictions carry a maximum of life in prison!
I for one would never risk life in prison for 3 grand!
Next time you go offering to work cash in hand you may like to consider exactly the value you are placing on your freedom.
I was the OP! A company had provided me with a quote. With small supplementary optional extras. IF I wished to take up one of the optional extras then I have been offered the opportunity to have this at half the quoted cost 'off the record' - I.e. As far as the company was aware, I haven't opted for this extra. The contractor will provide it anyway at half the cost should I decide to proceed....
Ah, not quite what the original post said...
Guess it is up to you...
but personally I avoid committing or conspiring with others to commit fraud. however there is one thing that you may want to consider in making your mind up:
What happens if something goes wrong and you need to make a claim against the company? Will the fact that you have had extra work done by non authorised people invalidate your legal rights? That is the case usually.
"
In this scenario I've decided not to go for the optional extras anyway, so in the end it's kind of a moot point as even though I could get it cheaper I've elected not to do it at all! But you do make a number of hugely valid points and I agree, with the authorities always on the lookout is it worth a potential jail sentence just to make a quick buck? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And yes, I would work cash in hand
Do you knock more off the price than you would pay in tax/NI if you worked legit?
If so your a corrupt idiot!
"
I mean I would work cash in hand doing doing a few odd jobs here and there, not if I was doing work through my business no.
And nope, far from a corrupt idiot. |
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Hhhhhhmmm difficult one.....
I work and I don,t have choice its deducted automaticly...
Pay cash in hand your relying on those who you pay in being honest in declaring it....
More than often it is not.....
Yet these are the the same individuals who happily turn up at A&E...., or cry foul when crime is commited against them in use of the Police.. Without cobtributing anything infirst place.....
Maybe talk ofre nhs " you get out what youput in" isnt such a bad option.... |
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"I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers?"
If someone is prepared to cheat the tax man , they are probably prepared to cheat you as well. Is it a true discount ?. What prices have others quoted . We all have to pay more tax to cover the tax cheats . Quite often cash in the hand quotes can be higher than those from a bona fide tradesman , and as such I would refuse any tradesman wanting a cash payment . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers?
If something goes wrong, needs fixing or returned you have nothing to fall back on if you have paid cash in hand.
Agreed, in this scenario it's a one off service that doesn't need a warranty / guarantee etc but you're right - in other scenarios you can lose your consumer / statutory rights if there's no official record of the transaction so definitely worth proceeding with caution!"
You still have statutory rights. Just make sure you get a receipt. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I used to set up TV's when we used to just drop off to customers and they asked us for f we could set it up we would for a modest fee, we would use it to pay for our lunch for the day. I think if your getting something material than I'd be wary however a service not so wary |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers?
That is a joke!
Fact is even if on top tax rates (earning over £150000 a year you would pay less tax than is being offered in discount for cash in hand! therefore the only conclusion I can come to is that the git offering you the discount is either committing benefit fraud or conspiring with others to commit benefit fraud. In which case the shit needs catching prosecuting and gaoling!
It's not a benefit fraud thing - and it's quite low value. It's not this, but think of it as very similar : e.g. If you bought a new washing machine and the company was going to charge you £20 to take away and dispose the old one, but the delivery guy said he'd take it away for £10 'off the record'. It's that sort of scenario. And I'm really not talking about about any material value here, just trying to getting a feel of Fabbers morals
No it is not! RE read the OP!
the OP was offered a 50% discount if the work was done cash in hand.
If you earn between aprox 7000 and 10000 a year your total tax/ni is 12% on the amount between those figs.
Between 10000 and 31000 it goes up to 32%
Anything between 31000 and 150000 it goes up to 52%
After 150000 it drops to 47%!
If your earning between £31000 and £150000 and are so corrupt your willing to commit NI fraud to save yourself a max of £3400 (and of course have others conspire with you in your fraud) then you need locking up!
Remember ALL conspiracy convictions carry a maximum of life in prison!
I for one would never risk life in prison for 3 grand!
Next time you go offering to work cash in hand you may like to consider exactly the value you are placing on your freedom.
I was the OP! A company had provided me with a quote. With small supplementary optional extras. IF I wished to take up one of the optional extras then I have been offered the opportunity to have this at half the quoted cost 'off the record' - I.e. As far as the company was aware, I haven't opted for this extra. The contractor will provide it anyway at half the cost should I decide to proceed.... "
If they can afford to do it (and presumably make money) at 50% off, doesn't it suggest that the original price was hugely inflated? |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers?
That is a joke!
Fact is even if on top tax rates (earning over £150000 a year you would pay less tax than is being offered in discount for cash in hand! therefore the only conclusion I can come to is that the git offering you the discount is either committing benefit fraud or conspiring with others to commit benefit fraud. In which case the shit needs catching prosecuting and gaoling!
It's not a benefit fraud thing - and it's quite low value. It's not this, but think of it as very similar : e.g. If you bought a new washing machine and the company was going to charge you £20 to take away and dispose the old one, but the delivery guy said he'd take it away for £10 'off the record'. It's that sort of scenario. And I'm really not talking about about any material value here, just trying to getting a feel of Fabbers morals
No it is not! RE read the OP!
the OP was offered a 50% discount if the work was done cash in hand.
If you earn between aprox 7000 and 10000 a year your total tax/ni is 12% on the amount between those figs.
Between 10000 and 31000 it goes up to 32%
Anything between 31000 and 150000 it goes up to 52%
After 150000 it drops to 47%!
If your earning between £31000 and £150000 and are so corrupt your willing to commit NI fraud to save yourself a max of £3400 (and of course have others conspire with you in your fraud) then you need locking up!
Remember ALL conspiracy convictions carry a maximum of life in prison!
I for one would never risk life in prison for 3 grand!
Next time you go offering to work cash in hand you may like to consider exactly the value you are placing on your freedom.
"
If I was employing someone on, say, £26K a year, that's £500 per week, or £100 per day that person earns. Add to this Employer's NI at about 13%, plus if he has a vehicle, the fuel, vehicle, insurance and maintenance could easily be another £150 per week. So with the NI that person costs me about £700 per week, or £36,400 per year.
Now, take into account that person may have 5 weeks holidays, 8 bank holidays, 1 week training (I pay him his wages AND pay for his training), and say 1 week sick a year (you have to factor in sickness). There may also be times when I haven't got 'chargeable' work for him. Say this is about 10% of the time. So, to just break even when he's working on things I can charge him out for , I have to cover that £36,400 cost in about 37 or 38 weeks, or about £200 per day. So for someone to earn £100 per day, I have to charge £200, and I haven't even made a profit... and this is without any parts or materials.
So it's quite likely that an employee could say he'd charge half price for cash and 'don't tell the boss'.
What I do find quite ironic though, is all the people that say get tough on tax avoiding companies and high earners, when they would quite happily pay cash to save themselves what effectively is the tax! |
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"I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers?
That is a joke!
Fact is even if on top tax rates (earning over £150000 a year you would pay less tax than is being offered in discount for cash in hand! therefore the only conclusion I can come to is that the git offering you the discount is either committing benefit fraud or conspiring with others to commit benefit fraud. In which case the shit needs catching prosecuting and gaoling!
It's not a benefit fraud thing - and it's quite low value. It's not this, but think of it as very similar : e.g. If you bought a new washing machine and the company was going to charge you £20 to take away and dispose the old one, but the delivery guy said he'd take it away for £10 'off the record'. It's that sort of scenario. And I'm really not talking about about any material value here, just trying to getting a feel of Fabbers morals
No it is not! RE read the OP!
the OP was offered a 50% discount if the work was done cash in hand.
If you earn between aprox 7000 and 10000 a year your total tax/ni is 12% on the amount between those figs.
Between 10000 and 31000 it goes up to 32%
Anything between 31000 and 150000 it goes up to 52%
After 150000 it drops to 47%!
If your earning between £31000 and £150000 and are so corrupt your willing to commit NI fraud to save yourself a max of £3400 (and of course have others conspire with you in your fraud) then you need locking up!
Remember ALL conspiracy convictions carry a maximum of life in prison!
I for one would never risk life in prison for 3 grand!
Next time you go offering to work cash in hand you may like to consider exactly the value you are placing on your freedom.
I was the OP! A company had provided me with a quote. With small supplementary optional extras. IF I wished to take up one of the optional extras then I have been offered the opportunity to have this at half the quoted cost 'off the record' - I.e. As far as the company was aware, I haven't opted for this extra. The contractor will provide it anyway at half the cost should I decide to proceed....
Ah, not quite what the original post said...
Guess it is up to you...
but personally I avoid committing or conspiring with others to commit fraud. however there is one thing that you may want to consider in making your mind up:
What happens if something goes wrong and you need to make a claim against the company? Will the fact that you have had extra work done by non authorised people invalidate your legal rights? That is the case usually.
In this scenario I've decided not to go for the optional extras anyway, so in the end it's kind of a moot point as even though I could get it cheaper I've elected not to do it at all! But you do make a number of hugely valid points and I agree, with the authorities always on the lookout is it worth a potential jail sentence just to make a quick buck?"
I am so glad that we both think the same way.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I've often lowered a price for cash, It just depends what my original offer was, if there's enough margin to offer discount for cash and they think it's a bargain because of this!
I just bank the money just the same as a cheque, the customer is happy with their perceived bargain for cash, I'm happyish with a profit of something.
It wouldn't be anything like 50% mind usually it's about 10-20%
At 50% there probably skimping on either materials ( you can't claim the vat back on foreigners) or labour, either way I'd rather pay for a job done right than cheaply |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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When i was young our circle did everything cash in hand, loads of illegal stuff going on that never got caught because everyone involved was a decent person not out to rip anyone off but those ripping us off. Everyone knew each other though so nothing went wrong with it and stuff got done. It was a great system that worked for everyone.
These days people are out for themselves, out for a quick buck, and i personally wouldn't trust anyone who offered me a saving that big, no way do they make more than 50% on a job usually so it doesn't sound legit to me.
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"I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers?
That is a joke!
Fact is even if on top tax rates (earning over £150000 a year you would pay less tax than is being offered in discount for cash in hand! therefore the only conclusion I can come to is that the git offering you the discount is either committing benefit fraud or conspiring with others to commit benefit fraud. In which case the shit needs catching prosecuting and gaoling!
"
Eh?
How have you cme to this conclusion?.
I thought he was getting sky installed or something.. |
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"When i was young our circle did everything cash in hand, loads of illegal stuff going on that never got caught because everyone involved was a decent person not out to rip anyone off but those ripping us off. Everyone knew each other though so nothing went wrong with it and stuff got done. It was a great system that worked for everyone.
These days people are out for themselves, out for a quick buck, and i personally wouldn't trust anyone who offered me a saving that big, no way do they make more than 50% on a job usually so it doesn't sound legit to me.
"
I know someone who knows someone,who knows someone who will set you up with every sky,Virgin channel either etc for a one off payment of £350..definitely not legit but you'll safe a fortune on your sky bill |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When i was young our circle did everything cash in hand, loads of illegal stuff going on that never got caught because everyone involved was a decent person not out to rip anyone off but those ripping us off. Everyone knew each other though so nothing went wrong with it and stuff got done. It was a great system that worked for everyone.
These days people are out for themselves, out for a quick buck, and i personally wouldn't trust anyone who offered me a saving that big, no way do they make more than 50% on a job usually so it doesn't sound legit to me.
I know someone who knows someone,who knows someone who will set you up with every sky,Virgin channel either etc for a one off payment of £350..definitely not legit but you'll safe a fortune on your sky bill "
People got their houses done up for literally nothing but brews and a few pints. Stuff that would cost thousands today costed everyone nothing except for materials you were using, like bricks and stuff.
I think it's a good system, but takes a lot of trust.
Lol, nothing dodgy going on between anyone, we just cut out the middle man for certain thing and then people did things for themselves and their was no tax to pay because nobody got paid. Just did it in their spare time.
The stuff kept off the books i won't go into, but yeah there would have been tax to pay on it if it wasn't stolen. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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50% isn't a massive discount at all.
It all depends on the service being offered.
I'm often giving discounts of 50% sometimes 75%. Sometimes I take no payment and I still turn a profit. As far as I'm aware the OP didn't say what service he was paying for. He may be getting 50% from a £20 job so not that much off the original price. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"50% isn't a massive discount at all.
It all depends on the service being offered.
I'm often giving discounts of 50% sometimes 75%. Sometimes I take no payment and I still turn a profit. As far as I'm aware the OP didn't say what service he was paying for. He may be getting 50% from a £20 job so not that much off the original price. "
Didn't know that. Interesting. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers?
That is a joke!
Fact is even if on top tax rates (earning over £150000 a year you would pay less tax than is being offered in discount for cash in hand! therefore the only conclusion I can come to is that the git offering you the discount is either committing benefit fraud or conspiring with others to commit benefit fraud. In which case the shit needs catching prosecuting and gaoling!
It's not a benefit fraud thing - and it's quite low value. It's not this, but think of it as very similar : e.g. If you bought a new washing machine and the company was going to charge you £20 to take away and dispose the old one, but the delivery guy said he'd take it away for £10 'off the record'. It's that sort of scenario. And I'm really not talking about about any material value here, just trying to getting a feel of Fabbers morals
No it is not! RE read the OP!
the OP was offered a 50% discount if the work was done cash in hand.
If you earn between aprox 7000 and 10000 a year your total tax/ni is 12% on the amount between those figs.
Between 10000 and 31000 it goes up to 32%
Anything between 31000 and 150000 it goes up to 52%
After 150000 it drops to 47%!
If your earning between £31000 and £150000 and are so corrupt your willing to commit NI fraud to save yourself a max of £3400 (and of course have others conspire with you in your fraud) then you need locking up!
Remember ALL conspiracy convictions carry a maximum of life in prison!
I for one would never risk life in prison for 3 grand!
Next time you go offering to work cash in hand you may like to consider exactly the value you are placing on your freedom.
"
This guy is either a tax man or badly needs a wank!
I know a few people who have a business and the profit is not the only thing they tax,
they have to employ themselfs and pay tax of the wages to themselfs after already paying tax on profit,
they pay tax on buying materials and if they can afford to buy things like company vehicles they then get taxed for having the money to buy a vehicle
Hard working people get taxed to death and then on the other hand you have people who never intend to work a day in there life and get supported with benefits, coming straight from the tax payers pocket |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"50% isn't a massive discount at all.
It all depends on the service being offered.
I'm often giving discounts of 50% sometimes 75%. Sometimes I take no payment and I still turn a profit. As far as I'm aware the OP didn't say what service he was paying for. He may be getting 50% from a £20 job so not that much off the original price. "
Yeah exactly this. It was only a small 'service' (I'm not going to say what in case someone puts two and two together and he gets in trouble) but we're talking sufficiently small that it's easy to pay in cash (under £100 so I haven't had to empty my bank account!) - there's no materials involved other than the originally quoted stuff so this is just his labour. This was a peripheral optional 'extra' that was no doubt overpriced by the company involved, indeed even at 50% off it was a nice return for him given the extra amount of labour it would have required.
In the end I didn't want or need this extra but it certainly wasn't an overly major job we're talking about here but had I proceeded it would have meant I paid less, he was paid more, and the company were unaware and got nothing additional over and above the original agreed quote. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"When i was young our circle did everything cash in hand, loads of illegal stuff going on that never got caught because everyone involved was a decent person not out to rip anyone off but those ripping us off. Everyone knew each other though so nothing went wrong with it and stuff got done. It was a great system that worked for everyone.
These days people are out for themselves, out for a quick buck, and i personally wouldn't trust anyone who offered me a saving that big, no way do they make more than 50% on a job usually so it doesn't sound legit to me.
I know someone who knows someone,who knows someone who will set you up with every sky,Virgin channel either etc for a one off payment of £350..definitely not legit but you'll safe a fortune on your sky bill "
.
Receiving stolen goods carries a higher sentence then providing stolen goods.
Just saying  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers?
That is a joke!
Fact is even if on top tax rates (earning over £150000 a year you would pay less tax than is being offered in discount for cash in hand! therefore the only conclusion I can come to is that the git offering you the discount is either committing benefit fraud or conspiring with others to commit benefit fraud. In which case the shit needs catching prosecuting and gaoling!
It's not a benefit fraud thing - and it's quite low value. It's not this, but think of it as very similar : e.g. If you bought a new washing machine and the company was going to charge you £20 to take away and dispose the old one, but the delivery guy said he'd take it away for £10 'off the record'. It's that sort of scenario. And I'm really not talking about about any material value here, just trying to getting a feel of Fabbers morals
No it is not! RE read the OP!
the OP was offered a 50% discount if the work was done cash in hand.
If you earn between aprox 7000 and 10000 a year your total tax/ni is 12% on the amount between those figs.
Between 10000 and 31000 it goes up to 32%
Anything between 31000 and 150000 it goes up to 52%
After 150000 it drops to 47%!
If your earning between £31000 and £150000 and are so corrupt your willing to commit NI fraud to save yourself a max of £3400 (and of course have others conspire with you in your fraud) then you need locking up!
Remember ALL conspiracy convictions carry a maximum of life in prison!
I for one would never risk life in prison for 3 grand!
Next time you go offering to work cash in hand you may like to consider exactly the value you are placing on your freedom.
This guy is either a tax man or badly needs a wank!
I know a few people who have a business and the profit is not the only thing they tax,
they have to employ themselfs and pay tax of the wages to themselfs after already paying tax on profit,
they pay tax on buying materials and if they can afford to buy things like company vehicles they then get taxed for having the money to buy a vehicle
Hard working people get taxed to death and then on the other hand you have people who never intend to work a day in there life and get supported with benefits, coming straight from the tax payers pocket "
.
The vat on everything except the tax there paying themselves(like everyone does) is fully reclaimable, most business, myself included make profit on vat.
Of course you can't claim any of that back on a cash job! |
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Legally, you are not doing anything wrong by paying cash. You also still have the same rights. The person who you are paying us solely responsible for declaring their earnings.
The only issue on your part us that IF something goes wrong, you wouldn't have a receipt.
Cal |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Legally, you are not doing anything wrong by paying cash. You also still have the same rights. The person who you are paying us solely responsible for declaring their earnings.
The only issue on your part us that IF something goes wrong, you wouldn't have a receipt.
Cal"
Why wouldn't he have a receipt. 99% of my work is cash in hand and I'm always giving receipts. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Not sure you make profit on VAT???"
.
If you buy an old house, do it up and sell it you pay vat on materials
Buy an old house, knock it down build a new house, you can reclaim the vat, that could be 10k or 100k depending on the build cost.
I make a good bit of wonga off vat as a gas fitter  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hard working people get taxed to death and then on the other hand you have people who never intend to work a day in there life and get supported with benefits, coming straight from the tax payers pocket "
The people i'm on about were hard working people. They managed to create a system were they could do what they wanted and nobody questioned them because those not in it didn't know about it and those in it benefitted from it.
That's how things are now, except most people aren't creating their own systems any more and relying on others to do it for them, of course you're gonna get ripped off and taken from for the privilege. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Legally, you are not doing anything wrong by paying cash. You also still have the same rights. The person who you are paying us solely responsible for declaring their earnings.
The only issue on your part us that IF something goes wrong, you wouldn't have a receipt.
Cal
Why wouldn't he have a receipt. 99% of my work is cash in hand and I'm always giving receipts. "
.
Because your banking the cash the same as I.
However I believe the op meant cash like delboy |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I had my bedroom all fitted out with wardrobes , I paid cash. I got a receipt. One of the doors was slightly pissed so I had him back and he fixed it.
Why are people presuming that if a job is done for cash you get no receipt ? |
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"
Why wouldn't he have a receipt. 99% of my work is cash in hand and I'm always giving receipts. "
Most "Cash in Hand" arrangements are based on not putting money "through to books"(rather than just accepting payment in cash). Hence a tradesman may not want to give you a receipt. Others may have an un-official receipt book. |
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"Not sure you make profit on VAT???.
If you buy an old house, do it up and sell it you pay vat on materials
Buy an old house, knock it down build a new house, you can reclaim the vat, that could be 10k or 100k depending on the build cost.
I make a good bit of wonga off vat as a gas fitter "
Not sure I follow that. To reclaim vat on your expenses you would be vat registered , and so therefore charging vat on your sales. The difference between the 2 is not yours - it belongs to someone else ! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers?
That is a joke!
Fact is even if on top tax rates (earning over £150000 a year you would pay less tax than is being offered in discount for cash in hand! therefore the only conclusion I can come to is that the git offering you the discount is either committing benefit fraud or conspiring with others to commit benefit fraud. In which case the shit needs catching prosecuting and gaoling!
It's not a benefit fraud thing - and it's quite low value. It's not this, but think of it as very similar : e.g. If you bought a new washing machine and the company was going to charge you £20 to take away and dispose the old one, but the delivery guy said he'd take it away for £10 'off the record'. It's that sort of scenario. And I'm really not talking about about any material value here, just trying to getting a feel of Fabbers morals
No it is not! RE read the OP!
the OP was offered a 50% discount if the work was done cash in hand.
If you earn between aprox 7000 and 10000 a year your total tax/ni is 12% on the amount between those figs.
Between 10000 and 31000 it goes up to 32%
Anything between 31000 and 150000 it goes up to 52%
After 150000 it drops to 47%!
If your earning between £31000 and £150000 and are so corrupt your willing to commit NI fraud to save yourself a max of £3400 (and of course have others conspire with you in your fraud) then you need locking up!
Remember ALL conspiracy convictions carry a maximum of life in prison!
I for one would never risk life in prison for 3 grand!
Next time you go offering to work cash in hand you may like to consider exactly the value you are placing on your freedom.
This guy is either a tax man or badly needs a wank!
I know a few people who have a business and the profit is not the only thing they tax,
they have to employ themselfs and pay tax of the wages to themselfs after already paying tax on profit,
they pay tax on buying materials and if they can afford to buy things like company vehicles they then get taxed for having the money to buy a vehicle
Hard working people get taxed to death and then on the other hand you have people who never intend to work a day in there life and get supported with benefits, coming straight from the tax payers pocket .
The vat on everything except the tax there paying themselves(like everyone does) is fully reclaimable, most business, myself included make profit on vat.
Of course you can't claim any of that back on a cash job!"
only if you are registeted for vat though |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Not sure you make profit on VAT???.
If you buy an old house, do it up and sell it you pay vat on materials
Buy an old house, knock it down build a new house, you can reclaim the vat, that could be 10k or 100k depending on the build cost.
I make a good bit of wonga off vat as a gas fitter "
Capitalist |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Not sure you make profit on VAT???.
If you buy an old house, do it up and sell it you pay vat on materials
Buy an old house, knock it down build a new house, you can reclaim the vat, that could be 10k or 100k depending on the build cost.
I make a good bit of wonga off vat as a gas fitter "
Big national housebuilders pay no vat on materials on new builds. Unless it is deemed as a luxury item. |
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I know a mechanic who often does cash jobs. He buys parts through the books and puts them down against internal jobs(eg cars to sell). He then doesn't pay tax on his expenses and doesn't declare the money coming in. So he's not paying tax on that either. He will save a load in tax because he's spending more and earning less. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I know a mechanic who often does cash jobs. He buys parts through the books and puts them down against internal jobs(eg cars to sell). He then doesn't pay tax on his expenses and doesn't declare the money coming in. So he's not paying tax on that either. He will save a load in tax because he's spending more and earning less."
.Most people have done it at some time or other
He'll get caught sooner or later were never as smart as we think in regard to the vat man.
He's seen every dodge and knows every trick |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Not sure you make profit on VAT???.
If you buy an old house, do it up and sell it you pay vat on materials
Buy an old house, knock it down build a new house, you can reclaim the vat, that could be 10k or 100k depending on the build cost.
I make a good bit of wonga off vat as a gas fitter Big national housebuilders pay no vat on materials on new builds. Unless it is deemed as a luxury item."
.
That was my point, say the house cost 150k to buy and 30k to renovate in materials, well your only reclaiming the vat on 30k say 5k 180k outlay you sell for 200k,20k profit less tax.
Buy the house for 150k knock it down rebuild something a little swisher for 150k materials so your not reclaiming say 26k sell the house for 300k make no profit less tax, still made more profit on vat reclaiming making no profit than old way while making "profit"
I work for some large breweries that are on a right vat dodge with every pub they do up |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Not sure you make profit on VAT???.
If you buy an old house, do it up and sell it you pay vat on materials
Buy an old house, knock it down build a new house, you can reclaim the vat, that could be 10k or 100k depending on the build cost.
I make a good bit of wonga off vat as a gas fitter
Capitalist "
.
I don't make the system I just live under it |
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"
He'll get caught sooner or later were never as smart as we think in regard to the vat man.
He's seen every dodge and knows every trick"
I agree, I don't condone what he does (unless it's my car  ) and he only does it on a small percentage. Buy there is a fair chance they'll catch him sooner or later. |
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"Not sure you make profit on VAT???.
If you buy an old house, do it up and sell it you pay vat on materials
Buy an old house, knock it down build a new house, you can reclaim the vat, that could be 10k or 100k depending on the build cost.
I make a good bit of wonga off vat as a gas fitter
Capitalist .
I don't make the system I just live under it "
Trouble is I don't think that is the system!
There is no system that allows for a VAT dodge you try to describe, or indeed any system where VAT can ever be considered Profit!
You can't simply reclaim vat on purchases without showing vat being added to services and sale. |
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Well.... If you buy something and use it, you can claim the vat back.
Although I actually agree with what you are saying, generally a company's vat bill is the amount of vat from sales minus the amount of vat paid on purchases. If your sales are not VAT-able then you won't be paying ANY vat. But you can't make a profit on it... your accountable expenses will be the price without vat anyway. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers?"
Speaking as someone who used to work for the government department who deal with tax evasion, but who shall remain anonymous of course, it is 100% wrong and is quite simply fraud and tax evasion.
Companies do this as cash is untraceable unless it's put in the bank therefore the tax man will never know about it. In turn the company pays no income tax, no vat, no corporation tax and no national insurance contributions in the money 'earned'. It is blatant law breaking, is illegal and depending on the sums of money involved can actually result in custodial sentences.
People may see things like this as "well it's only £20" but he fact is billions go missing from this country's finances every year which should be declared and taxed. So no, it's not 'win/win' as you say |
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"I know a mechanic who often does cash jobs. He buys parts through the books and puts them down against internal jobs(eg cars to sell). He then doesn't pay tax on his expenses and doesn't declare the money coming in. So he's not paying tax on that either. He will save a load in tax because he's spending more and earning less."
. He will need to keep his fingers crossed that his tax return is not selected for inspection because of his lower than average margin .
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Depends what its for. Can't say that I've not paid cash in hand for work done in the past.
It's really a case of if it works for you, and you're sure of what you're getting for your money, then go for it...you certainly won't be the only person in the country doing that today. |
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"When i was young our circle did everything cash in hand, loads of illegal stuff going on that never got caught because everyone involved was a decent person not out to rip anyone off but those ripping us off. Everyone knew each other though so nothing went wrong with it and stuff got done. It was a great system that worked for everyone.
These days people are out for themselves, out for a quick buck, and i personally wouldn't trust anyone who offered me a saving that big, no way do they make more than 50% on a job usually so it doesn't sound legit to me.
I know someone who knows someone,who knows someone who will set you up with every sky,Virgin channel either etc for a one off payment of £350..definitely not legit but you'll safe a fortune on your sky bill .
Receiving stolen goods carries a higher sentence then providing stolen goods.
Just saying "
Only if you get caught |
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By *errygTV/TS
over a year ago
denton |
if you have builders for example, most cowboys do not work for cheque only payments, but at least its a form of proof of payment,or you can do part cash part cheque. i should think those who cold call its cash only |
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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago
Wakefield |
"I've just been offered a price for a service which is 50% less if I pay cash for it than the full invoiced 'through the books' charge.
Is it a simple case of 'win/win' for all parties in these tough economic times or just simply fraud?
Where is your moral compass pointing Fabbers?"
Cash in hand may be perfectly legit as it is the way most traders work.
EG I visit a market stall pay the trader cash for a bunch of bannanas. It is cash in hand but still goes through the books.
I however guess you are really wanting to know opinions on the black market economy where such cash payments are not recorded.
It is simply fraud and does honest people out of jobs by undercutting them.
It can also add to the costs paid by others when a company has to pay their workforce who are doing private work in company time.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The odd cash in hand job no worse than buying a box of duty free fags at the pub. We've all done things outside the law (I guess), it's not such a big deal.
Some of the posts with such high morals infiriate me....get a grip ffs!
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