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The imported reserve army of labour and how it has destroyed this country
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Tony Blair's destructive immigration policy has resulted in Britain losing it's common national identity and the formation of a significant reserve army of labour.
A reserve army of labour is a reference to a group that comprises of the underemployed and unemployed. Karl Marx argued that the capitalists will endeavour to exploit those who are employed by utilising the reserve army of labour. When a society suffers from either a significant degree of underemployment or unemployment then the capitalists can use these unfortunate people to discipline those who are in regular employment: if employees perceive that they will be unsuccessful in finding alternative employment then they are more likely to be more submissive when it comes to negotiating pay and working conditions with their current employers.
Just think of the rise of zero hour contracts, unpaid interns and employers refusing to increase pay for their workers. Ask yourself if you would reconsider leaving your job if you perceived that a zero hour contract job would be the only realistic form of employment. What would you give up to stay? Unsurprisingly, in 2013 the pay of company directors in the UK rose by an average of 14% from the previous year.
Under labour net migration in Britain significantly increased from the tens of thousands to the hundreds of thousands. Despite the conservative promises to reduce immigration, Britain had net migration of nearly 300,000 people in 2014. In 1997, net migration was only about 50,000. Also, it has been calculated that over 3 million people came to the UK during Labours time in power.
Despite the economic trouble Britain has endured over the past 5 years, the capitalists encouraged the Government to maintain the volume of people migrating to this country because it served their purpose of exploiting workers.
In my opinion Tony Blair, David Cameron and the rest of the Westminster political class have destroyed this country by forming an alliance with the capitalists and deliberately administering a policy of aggressive globalisation. Excessive immigration not only creates the conditions for employers to exploit workers, it also destroys the national identity.
In hindsight, If those brave warriors who fought for this country in the world wars could see what has happened to this country, I am convinced that they would not have bothered sacrificing their lives. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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capitalism is our modern world...liker it or lump it...
but does it really have to come down to immigration?
even without an influx of people from other countries, there would still be divides amongst the divided
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tony Blair's destructive immigration policy has resulted in Britain losing it's common national identity and the formation of a significant reserve army of labour.
A reserve army of labour is a reference to a group that comprises of the underemployed and unemployed. Karl Marx argued that the capitalists will endeavour to exploit those who are employed by utilising the reserve army of labour. When a society suffers from either a significant degree of underemployment or unemployment then the capitalists can use these unfortunate people to discipline those who are in regular employment: if employees perceive that they will be unsuccessful in finding alternative employment then they are more likely to be more submissive when it comes to negotiating pay and working conditions with their current employers.
Just think of the rise of zero hour contracts, unpaid interns and employers refusing to increase pay for their workers. Ask yourself if you would reconsider leaving your job if you perceived that a zero hour contract job would be the only realistic form of employment. What would you give up to stay? Unsurprisingly, in 2013 the pay of company directors in the UK rose by an average of 14% from the previous year.
Under labour net migration in Britain significantly increased from the tens of thousands to the hundreds of thousands. Despite the conservative promises to reduce immigration, Britain had net migration of nearly 300,000 people in 2014. In 1997, net migration was only about 50,000. Also, it has been calculated that over 3 million people came to the UK during Labours time in power.
Despite the economic trouble Britain has endured over the past 5 years, the capitalists encouraged the Government to maintain the volume of people migrating to this country because it served their purpose of exploiting workers.
In my opinion Tony Blair, David Cameron and the rest of the Westminster political class have destroyed this country by forming an alliance with the capitalists and deliberately administering a policy of aggressive globalisation. Excessive immigration not only creates the conditions for employers to exploit workers, it also destroys the national identity.
In hindsight, If those brave warriors who fought for this country in the world wars could see what has happened to this country, I am convinced that they would not have bothered sacrificing their lives."
Would that include immigrants like my Grandad and his brother who fought in the war? |
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"Tony Blair's destructive immigration policy has resulted in Britain losing it's common national identity and the formation of a significant reserve army of labour.
A reserve army of labour is a reference to a group that comprises of the underemployed and unemployed. Karl Marx argued that the capitalists will endeavour to exploit those who are employed by utilising the reserve army of labour. When a society suffers from either a significant degree of underemployment or unemployment then the capitalists can use these unfortunate people to discipline those who are in regular employment: if employees perceive that they will be unsuccessful in finding alternative employment then they are more likely to be more submissive when it comes to negotiating pay and working conditions with their current employers.
Just think of the rise of zero hour contracts, unpaid interns and employers refusing to increase pay for their workers. Ask yourself if you would reconsider leaving your job if you perceived that a zero hour contract job would be the only realistic form of employment. What would you give up to stay? Unsurprisingly, in 2013 the pay of company directors in the UK rose by an average of 14% from the previous year.
Under labour net migration in Britain significantly increased from the tens of thousands to the hundreds of thousands. Despite the conservative promises to reduce immigration, Britain had net migration of nearly 300,000 people in 2014. In 1997, net migration was only about 50,000. Also, it has been calculated that over 3 million people came to the UK during Labours time in power.
Despite the economic trouble Britain has endured over the past 5 years, the capitalists encouraged the Government to maintain the volume of people migrating to this country because it served their purpose of exploiting workers.
In my opinion Tony Blair, David Cameron and the rest of the Westminster political class have destroyed this country by forming an alliance with the capitalists and deliberately administering a policy of aggressive globalisation. Excessive immigration not only creates the conditions for employers to exploit workers, it also destroys the national identity.
In hindsight, If those brave warriors who fought for this country in the world wars could see what has happened to this country, I am convinced that they would not have bothered sacrificing their lives.
Would that include immigrants like my Grandad and his brother who fought in the war? "
Or the immigrants like my parents happily living their Caribbean ideal when the conservative government came calling, BEGGING the islanders to come to Britain to help rebuild it after the war.
They arrived on British passports from Jamaica to hostility. Confused and hurt that the people they came to help were downright nasty.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tony Blair's destructive immigration policy has resulted in Britain losing it's common national identity and the formation of a significant reserve army of labour.
(...)
In hindsight, If those brave warriors who fought for this country in the world wars could see what has happened to this country, I am convinced that they would not have bothered sacrificing their lives."
The national identify that I find affinity with is one of exciting multiculturalism.
My Grandfather felt that way too. Although he did not sacrifice his life in the war, only his leg. So perhaps his view doesn't count. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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OP, the trouble with all that outdated Marxist terminology is that it makes it sound as if individuals are deliberately setting out to exploit whole "classes" of people in a secret plot. They are not.
And I failed to understand Milliband's constant reference to helping the working family. There are very few people who do not work. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Net migration has added to our economy though.
It's not as if, we don't go and work abroad! Hong Kong, Spain, Australia, Cayman Islands plus lots of other countries. We can't expect it all to be one way traffic!
And I'm not sure what relevance the War has to the whole argument. That was to do with Hitler rather than immigration. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tony Blair's destructive immigration policy has resulted in Britain losing it's common national identity and the formation of a significant reserve army of labour.
A reserve army of labour is a reference to a group that comprises of the underemployed and unemployed. Karl Marx argued that the capitalists will endeavour to exploit those who are employed by utilising the reserve army of labour. When a society suffers from either a significant degree of underemployment or unemployment then the capitalists can use these unfortunate people to discipline those who are in regular employment: if employees perceive that they will be unsuccessful in finding alternative employment then they are more likely to be more submissive when it comes to negotiating pay and working conditions with their current employers.
Just think of the rise of zero hour contracts, unpaid interns and employers refusing to increase pay for their workers. Ask yourself if you would reconsider leaving your job if you perceived that a zero hour contract job would be the only realistic form of employment. What would you give up to stay? Unsurprisingly, in 2013 the pay of company directors in the UK rose by an average of 14% from the previous year.
Under labour net migration in Britain significantly increased from the tens of thousands to the hundreds of thousands. Despite the conservative promises to reduce immigration, Britain had net migration of nearly 300,000 people in 2014. In 1997, net migration was only about 50,000. Also, it has been calculated that over 3 million people came to the UK during Labours time in power.
Despite the economic trouble Britain has endured over the past 5 years, the capitalists encouraged the Government to maintain the volume of people migrating to this country because it served their purpose of exploiting workers.
In my opinion Tony Blair, David Cameron and the rest of the Westminster political class have destroyed this country by forming an alliance with the capitalists and deliberately administering a policy of aggressive globalisation. Excessive immigration not only creates the conditions for employers to exploit workers, it also destroys the national identity.
In hindsight, If those brave warriors who fought for this country in the world wars could see what has happened to this country, I am convinced that they would not have bothered sacrificing their lives.
Would that include immigrants like my Grandad and his brother who fought in the war?
Or the immigrants like my parents happily living their Caribbean ideal when the conservative government came calling, BEGGING the islanders to come to Britain to help rebuild it after the war.
They arrived on British passports from Jamaica to hostility. Confused and hurt that the people they came to help were downright nasty.
"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Net migration has added to our economy though.
It's not as if, we don't go and work abroad! Hong Kong, Spain, Australia, Cayman Islands plus lots of other countries. We can't expect it all to be one way traffic!
And I'm not sure what relevance the War has to the whole argument. That was to do with Hitler rather than immigration. "
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"Tony Blair's destructive immigration policy has resulted in Britain losing it's common national identity and the formation of a significant reserve army of labour.
A reserve army of labour is a reference to a group that comprises of the underemployed and unemployed. Karl Marx argued that the capitalists will endeavour to exploit those who are employed by utilising the reserve army of labour. When a society suffers from either a significant degree of underemployment or unemployment then the capitalists can use these unfortunate people to discipline those who are in regular employment: if employees perceive that they will be unsuccessful in finding alternative employment then they are more likely to be more submissive when it comes to negotiating pay and working conditions with their current employers.
Just think of the rise of zero hour contracts, unpaid interns and employers refusing to increase pay for their workers. Ask yourself if you would reconsider leaving your job if you perceived that a zero hour contract job would be the only realistic form of employment. What would you give up to stay? Unsurprisingly, in 2013 the pay of company directors in the UK rose by an average of 14% from the previous year.
Under labour net migration in Britain significantly increased from the tens of thousands to the hundreds of thousands. Despite the conservative promises to reduce immigration, Britain had net migration of nearly 300,000 people in 2014. In 1997, net migration was only about 50,000. Also, it has been calculated that over 3 million people came to the UK during Labours time in power.
Despite the economic trouble Britain has endured over the past 5 years, the capitalists encouraged the Government to maintain the volume of people migrating to this country because it served their purpose of exploiting workers.
In my opinion Tony Blair, David Cameron and the rest of the Westminster political class have destroyed this country by forming an alliance with the capitalists and deliberately administering a policy of aggressive globalisation. Excessive immigration not only creates the conditions for employers to exploit workers, it also destroys the national identity.
In hindsight, If those brave warriors who fought for this country in the world wars could see what has happened to this country, I am convinced that they would not have bothered sacrificing their lives."
Jesus! What an unbelievable mixture of bigotry, lies and failed Marxist ideology.
I hate to sound a bit Grouchy, but instead of Harping on about evil company directors, why don't you simply become one? It's a free country.
(That's what they fought for, that and your right to copy and paste articles from Socialist Worker and whinge)
Mr ddc
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Or you could blame the lazy generation for whom manual labour is beneath them. The ones who go to uni for a worthless meaningless degree, fill their faces with piercings then expect to walk into an exec role or be a pop star or WAG. Immigrants come in and fill the void. Living in lincs there is a massive migrant worker population. If they werent here you wouldnt get fed |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Blaming immigration for the country's problems is like blaming cold weather for having a small dick, migrant workers will do the hard jobs, and do them well, because unlike a lot of British born people, who are comfortable on the soft benefits cushion, they have a work ethic, how many times have I heard people say "I'm better off on the dole" yeah in some cases the benefits you receive would equal or better how much you would get in a minimum wage job, but when was the last time you heard of someone getting overtime on the dole? If the lazy Jeremy Kyle generation got off their arses and took a job that they could work at and gain promotion, the migrant workers that everyone moans about wouldn't be able to get a job, but no, they would rather sit on their arses all day smoking and bitching and moaning about how the can't get a job, yes you can, it just takes more effort that moaning about it.
Oh and stop blaming Tony Blair for everything, a return to "Blairite" values to the Labour Party is what is needed right now, and it's how we can get the Tories out at the next general election, I know that's not a popular view, but it's mine and I stand by it |
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By *XimagesCouple
over a year ago
north liverpool |
Think the ideal situation would be to get rid of all this 'bogeyman' rhetoric about migration, bankers and working class.
If we can build a strong economy, we can then be in a position to get people into work where they can succeed, which would allow us to help the vulnerable in society and have a managed migration policy which helps all and not hinders.
Working together is always better than working against others  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Your forgetting the Traffic Wardens.
Everybody Hates a Traffic Warden 
Herr Gimp  "
Our traffic wardens are all immigrants so you can kill two birds with one stone. |
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By *ach3Man
over a year ago
Watford |
Wow, whilst I would agree politics is not what I would class as pillow talk - can't help but think its a point well made.
However getting rid of manufacturing jobs, ship yards etc and moving general.manufacturing overseas - hasn't helped either (appreciate that costs are probably down as a result).
As for comments around peoples psrents settling here after the war / fighting for the UK etc - there is a big difference between an invited guest / showing hospitality, and those who choose to sneak in through an.open.door for the purpose of simply exploiting the benefit system (what's left of it), or for criminal gains! |
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"Blaming immigration for the country's problems is like blaming cold weather for having a small dick, migrant workers will do the hard jobs, and do them well, because unlike a lot of British born people, who are comfortable on the soft benefits cushion, they have a work ethic, how many times have I heard people say "I'm better off on the dole" yeah in some cases the benefits you receive would equal or better how much you would get in a minimum wage job, but when was the last time you heard of someone getting overtime on the dole? If the lazy Jeremy Kyle generation got off their arses and took a job that they could work at and gain promotion, the migrant workers that everyone moans about wouldn't be able to get a job, but no, they would rather sit on their arses all day smoking and bitching and moaning about how the can't get a job, yes you can, it just takes more effort that moaning about it.
Oh and stop blaming Tony Blair for everything, a return to "Blairite" values to the Labour Party is what is needed right now, and it's how we can get the Tories out at the next general election, I know that's not a popular view, but it's mine and I stand by it"
That would have been a great post if you hadn't ruined it with the last paragraph. Pity there isn't a button for half a thumb. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What is it with all these posts recently ending with "if those who fought in the war could see it now they wouldn't..." End the sentence in any negative way you wish?
"
It's when you can't think of a good reason for your position you you try to justify it by pretending that an untouchable group would agree with you.
Bullshiting is the technical term I think. |
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"Tony Blair's destructive immigration policy has resulted in Britain losing it's common national identity and the formation of a significant reserve army of labour.
A reserve army of labour is a reference to a group that comprises of the underemployed and unemployed. Karl Marx argued that the capitalists will endeavour to exploit those who are employed by utilising the reserve army of labour. When a society suffers from either a significant degree of underemployment or unemployment then the capitalists can use these unfortunate people to discipline those who are in regular employment: if employees perceive that they will be unsuccessful in finding alternative employment then they are more likely to be more submissive when it comes to negotiating pay and working conditions with their current employers.
Just think of the rise of zero hour contracts, unpaid interns and employers refusing to increase pay for their workers. Ask yourself if you would reconsider leaving your job if you perceived that a zero hour contract job would be the only realistic form of employment. What would you give up to stay? Unsurprisingly, in 2013 the pay of company directors in the UK rose by an average of 14% from the previous year.
Under labour net migration in Britain significantly increased from the tens of thousands to the hundreds of thousands. Despite the conservative promises to reduce immigration, Britain had net migration of nearly 300,000 people in 2014. In 1997, net migration was only about 50,000. Also, it has been calculated that over 3 million people came to the UK during Labours time in power.
Despite the economic trouble Britain has endured over the past 5 years, the capitalists encouraged the Government to maintain the volume of people migrating to this country because it served their purpose of exploiting workers.
In my opinion Tony Blair, David Cameron and the rest of the Westminster political class have destroyed this country by forming an alliance with the capitalists and deliberately administering a policy of aggressive globalisation. Excessive immigration not only creates the conditions for employers to exploit workers, it also destroys the national identity.
In hindsight, If those brave warriors who fought for this country in the world wars could see what has happened to this country, I am convinced that they would not have bothered sacrificing their lives."
Jesus, yer a tool, so y'are! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Wow there's alot to mull over on this thread from the op to the rest!
I don't hate capitalists but I'm not keen on capitalism, people are motivated by things like money and immigration, I find they both usually bring the worse out in people, I don't wish to fuck somebody over for a tenner, but that's what capitalism demands,I have no fear of foreigners but that's what capitalism likes, I'm not keen on work shy bums but there created by the system no different than millionaires are.
What is important,is to realise that all these things are created by the system we implement!
How you choose to deal with them is your personal responsibility?
Opposing forces are only opposing in your head, there's no technical scientific reason why people that love millionaire hate work shy bums or that people who love work shy bums hate millionaires, that's just your own crazy logic
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Would that include immigrants like my Grandad and his brother who fought in the war?
Or the immigrants like my parents happily living their Caribbean ideal when the conservative government came calling, BEGGING the islanders to come to Britain to help rebuild it after the war.
They arrived on British passports from Jamaica to hostility. Confused and hurt that the people they came to help were downright nasty.
"
Beg immigrants for help, treat them horribly for helping, then blame them for your ills.
Strange.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Blaming immigration for the country's problems is like blaming cold weather for having a small dick, migrant workers will do the hard jobs, and do them well, because unlike a lot of British born people, who are comfortable on the soft benefits cushion, they have a work ethic, how many times have I heard people say "I'm better off on the dole" yeah in some cases the benefits you receive would equal or better how much you would get in a minimum wage job, but when was the last time you heard of someone getting overtime on the dole? If the lazy Jeremy Kyle generation got off their arses and took a job that they could work at and gain promotion, the migrant workers that everyone moans about wouldn't be able to get a job, but no, they would rather sit on their arses all day smoking and bitching and moaning about how the can't get a job, yes you can, it just takes more effort that moaning about it.
Oh and stop blaming Tony Blair for everything, a return to "Blairite" values to the Labour Party is what is needed right now, and it's how we can get the Tories out at the next general election, I know that's not a popular view, but it's mine and I stand by it
That would have been a great post if you hadn't ruined it with the last paragraph. Pity there isn't a button for half a thumb."
Half |
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Surely if the indiginous population were prepared to get out of bed and work there would be very few job opportunities for a foreign workforce?
Under capitalism every job has a value, a limit to how much whoever does it can be paid. Is our benefits system causing people to not work because the job doesn't pay enough? Opening the door for a workforce who are prepared to earn less but still be earning? Could this whole situation be our own fault for being lazy and/or too greedy? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
In hindsight, If those brave warriors who fought for this country in the world wars could see what has happened to this country, I am convinced that they would not have bothered sacrificing their lives."
You do know about the huge numbers of Muslims, Africans, West Indian and others who fought and died in the trenches for the 'Motherland' don't you?
How do you square that circle in your head?
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... weve always had immigrants ... and yes Enoch powell would probably have a hissy fit if he were alive today
But
At least when they do come into england .. ireland .. Scotland or wales ... they come with the intention of working hard.. making a better life for themselves and their families ....
Puts our lot to shame ....
Id like to see the OP go to another country to live and work .
ONE LESS BIGGOT ...
Live and let live ....
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Jesus! What an unbelievable mixture of bigotry, lies and failed Marxist ideology.
I hate to sound a bit Grouchy, but instead of Harping on about evil company directors, why don't you simply become one? It's a free country.
(That's what they fought for, that and your right to copy and paste articles from Socialist Worker and whinge)
Mr ddc
"
I see what you did there |
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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago
Titz Towers, North Notts |
"
Jesus! What an unbelievable mixture of bigotry, lies and failed Marxist ideology.
I hate to sound a bit Grouchy, but instead of Harping on about evil company directors, why don't you simply become one? It's a free country.
(That's what they fought for, that and your right to copy and paste articles from Socialist Worker and whinge)
Mr ddc
I see what you did there "
I'm sure someone is taking out his cigar in tribute to it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
In hindsight, If those brave warriors who fought for this country in the world wars could see what has happened to this country, I am convinced that they would not have bothered sacrificing their lives.
You do know about the huge numbers of Muslims, Africans, West Indian and others who fought and died in the trenches for the 'Motherland' don't you?
How do you square that circle in your head?
"
Nobody gets taught about those people. You may catch a documentary about who fought who in the world wars but it's not taught in schools. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
In hindsight, If those brave warriors who fought for this country in the world wars could see what has happened to this country, I am convinced that they would not have bothered sacrificing their lives.
You do know about the huge numbers of Muslims, Africans, West Indian and others who fought and died in the trenches for the 'Motherland' don't you?
How do you square that circle in your head?
Nobody gets taught about those people. You may catch a documentary about who fought who in the world wars but it's not taught in schools. "
I was taught about them at school.
The focus was (perhaps understandably) on the British soldiers but we were certainly taught that it went much wider than this in terms of people fighting on 'our side'. It's also made clear every year in the ceremonies at the cenotaph where representatives of all the countries whose soldiers fought in the war are there, on the telly, with Huw or Dimbleby explaining who they are.
If people don't recognise this, it's because they don't want to. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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100,000 Sikhs volunteered to fight for the British Army in WW1. 100 thousand!!
Black Africans along with many other 'immigrants' fought as sailors for Nelson in the Battle of Trafalgar!
Ghurkas need no introduction from me.
I agree with Anon. Those who don't know don't want to.
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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago
Titz Towers, North Notts |
I'm white, but my family were immigrants. Probably around 500 AD, but the point still stands. We all came from somewhere. It's the person who's important, not some accident of geography.  |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
As in most things in life those who fail always look outwards for some else to blame instead of looking in at them selves where the real reason lies.
I am sure there are some migrants who come here for the benefits etc but the ones I and my wife know who deals with a lot of these young families in her job would always say they work hard, often in low paid jobs and seem to be able to save up and get on the housing ladder, The only problem with them being here is the sheer number of people in this country making some parts over crowded and thus making it a pain to get about without jams etc.
Marxism is just the politics of envy, even labour realise they lost because they werent seen to be supporting those who want to get on |
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"
In hindsight, If those brave warriors who fought for this country in the world wars could see what has happened to this country, I am convinced that they would not have bothered sacrificing their lives.
You do know about the huge numbers of Muslims, Africans, West Indian and others who fought and died in the trenches for the 'Motherland' don't you?
How do you square that circle in your head?
"
this.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tony Blair's destructive immigration policy has resulted in Britain losing it's common national identity and the formation of a significant reserve army of labour.
A reserve army of labour is a reference to a group that comprises of the underemployed and unemployed. Karl Marx argued that the capitalists will endeavour to exploit those who are employed by utilising the reserve army of labour. When a society suffers from either a significant degree of underemployment or unemployment then the capitalists can use these unfortunate people to discipline those who are in regular employment: if employees perceive that they will be unsuccessful in finding alternative employment then they are more likely to be more submissive when it comes to negotiating pay and working conditions with their current employers.
Just think of the rise of zero hour contracts, unpaid interns and employers refusing to increase pay for their workers. Ask yourself if you would reconsider leaving your job if you perceived that a zero hour contract job would be the only realistic form of employment. What would you give up to stay? Unsurprisingly, in 2013 the pay of company directors in the UK rose by an average of 14% from the previous year.
Under labour net migration in Britain significantly increased from the tens of thousands to the hundreds of thousands. Despite the conservative promises to reduce immigration, Britain had net migration of nearly 300,000 people in 2014. In 1997, net migration was only about 50,000. Also, it has been calculated that over 3 million people came to the UK during Labours time in power.
Despite the economic trouble Britain has endured over the past 5 years, the capitalists encouraged the Government to maintain the volume of people migrating to this country because it served their purpose of exploiting workers.
In my opinion Tony Blair, David Cameron and the rest of the Westminster political class have destroyed this country by forming an alliance with the capitalists and deliberately administering a policy of aggressive globalisation. Excessive immigration not only creates the conditions for employers to exploit workers, it also destroys the national identity.
In hindsight, If those brave warriors who fought for this country in the world wars could see what has happened to this country, I am convinced that they would not have bothered sacrificing their lives."
I get quite bothered by people putting a voice to the fallen of the wars. I say this as a military man who has lost colleagues in battle.
In this instance, surely some of the fallen, and I'm thinking that many of the officer class particularly in WWI would have delighted in the capatilist regime that underpinned their private school education.
Just saying, you can't add one voice to people who can no longer express theirs. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"100,000 Sikhs volunteered to fight for the British Army in WW1. 100 thousand!!
Black Africans along with many other 'immigrants' fought as sailors for Nelson in the Battle of Trafalgar!
Ghurkas need no introduction from me.
I agree with Anon. Those who don't know don't want to.
"
A real imported reserve army and put to the front line fairly early on in WWI.
However, still no relevance to whatever point the OP is trying to make about more recent migrants. Unless we extend the argument further to recognise that those fighting for the Empire, for freedom of choice and liberty, might have some expectation that their descendants will be welcome in the Motherland.
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I think recent immigration is what's responsible for our growth.
What are we doing that's any different to other countries? What is the thing making the difference to our growth figures?
We still have a trade deficit, so we're not exporting more, so why are we showing more growth than other similar countries? Germany has a large trade surplus but Osborne keeps saying we're creating more jobs than they are.
So how can that be if it's not by increasing our own domestic demand?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think recent immigration is what's responsible for our growth.
What are we doing that's any different to other countries? What is the thing making the difference to our growth figures?
We still have a trade deficit, so we're not exporting more, so why are we showing more growth than other similar countries? Germany has a large trade surplus but Osborne keeps saying we're creating more jobs than they are.
So how can that be if it's not by increasing our own domestic demand?
"
.
Gdp of 60 million and gdp of 70 million, there's no big mystery |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Was decades ago, anybody bothered to sort this out yet or are we gonna wait for politicians to do it?
My family didn't die in the war but they did sacrifice and my grandad went to war, and to be fair they just didn't want to die or be invaded so were fighting against that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think recent immigration is what's responsible for our growth.
What are we doing that's any different to other countries? What is the thing making the difference to our growth figures?
We still have a trade deficit, so we're not exporting more, so why are we showing more growth than other similar countries? Germany has a large trade surplus but Osborne keeps saying we're creating more jobs than they are.
So how can that be if it's not by increasing our own domestic demand?
"
Cause our biggest industry is the financial sector which I don't think counts as exports. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I am not concerned about the economic arguments regarding immigration. I am more concerned with mass immigration from outside Europe as their cultures are massively different.
I have to say though that the first wave that came over after the war have integrated with our society rather well the exception being Muslims in my opinion.
Mass immigration does not just effect the native population but also immigrants that are already living here.
I do not think that the current wave middle eastern and African immigrants will integrate as the numbers are too great and they will simply stick to their own and live in ghettos. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Was decades ago, anybody bothered to sort this out yet or are we gonna wait for politicians to do it?
My family didn't die in the war but they did sacrifice and my grandad went to war, and to be fair they just didn't want to die or be invaded so were fighting against that."
.
Thank God somebody with sense!
I was waiting for Somali Chinese Columbian Tibetan catholic monks who rose on mass to save my future birth/life |
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"
Jesus! What an unbelievable mixture of bigotry, lies and failed Marxist ideology.
I hate to sound a bit Grouchy, but instead of Harping on about evil company directors, why don't you simply become one? It's a free country.
(That's what they fought for, that and your right to copy and paste articles from Socialist Worker and whinge)
Mr ddc
I see what you did there "
I would have mentioned the other one, but if I'm honest I never forgave Zippo for leaving them to run off with Bungle, George and Geoffrey 
 |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
Would that include immigrants like my Grandad and his brother who fought in the war?
Or the immigrants like my parents happily living their Caribbean ideal when the conservative government came calling, BEGGING the islanders to come to Britain to help rebuild it after the war.
They arrived on British passports from Jamaica to hostility. Confused and hurt that the people they came to help were downright nasty.
Beg immigrants for help, treat them horribly for helping, then blame them for your ills.
Strange.
"
its easy to blame them all coming over here nicking our jobs... they came across to do the jobs they were skilled to do.. and to do the jobs some of the local population thought were "beneath them"
my grandad fought in the war as well... for you to bring it up as reasoning is actually pretty distasteful at best...... and thats give you a whole of latitude...
maybe you should give that to others!!! |
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But if you set aside geography for a moment, people have always moved to where the jobs are, to create a better life for their children. We moved from country to city, we moved to the coal-fields and the steelworks. We moved to the ports and the factories. We eveyn left for countries like Australia, Canada and America. In effect we have simply enlarged the area we are moving around.
We are not victims of evil forces, but 'victims' of our own success: having a thriving country that everyone else wants to come to.
No-one has to settle for any job, we are all free to aspire to better ourselves.
And yes OP, there are some who believe that the difference between the richest and the poorest can be minimised by culling the rich, thereby lowering the average. But I prefer the idea of facilitating opportunities for all, and instead raising the average that way. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"Tony Blair's destructive immigration policy has resulted in Britain losing it's common national identity and the formation of a significant reserve army of labour.
A reserve army of labour is a reference to a group that comprises of the underemployed and unemployed. Karl Marx argued that the capitalists will endeavour to exploit those who are employed by utilising the reserve army of labour. When a society suffers from either a significant degree of underemployment or unemployment then the capitalists can use these unfortunate people to discipline those who are in regular employment: if employees perceive that they will be unsuccessful in finding alternative employment then they are more likely to be more submissive when it comes to negotiating pay and working conditions with their current employers.
Just think of the rise of zero hour contracts, unpaid interns and employers refusing to increase pay for their workers. Ask yourself if you would reconsider leaving your job if you perceived that a zero hour contract job would be the only realistic form of employment. What would you give up to stay? Unsurprisingly, in 2013 the pay of company directors in the UK rose by an average of 14% from the previous year.
Under labour net migration in Britain significantly increased from the tens of thousands to the hundreds of thousands. Despite the conservative promises to reduce immigration, Britain had net migration of nearly 300,000 people in 2014. In 1997, net migration was only about 50,000. Also, it has been calculated that over 3 million people came to the UK during Labours time in power.
Despite the economic trouble Britain has endured over the past 5 years, the capitalists encouraged the Government to maintain the volume of people migrating to this country because it served their purpose of exploiting workers.
In my opinion Tony Blair, David Cameron and the rest of the Westminster political class have destroyed this country by forming an alliance with the capitalists and deliberately administering a policy of aggressive globalisation. Excessive immigration not only creates the conditions for employers to exploit workers, it also destroys the national identity.
In hindsight, If those brave warriors who fought for this country in the world wars could see what has happened to this country, I am convinced that they would not have bothered sacrificing their lives.
Jesus! What an unbelievable mixture of bigotry, lies and failed Marxist ideology.
I hate to sound a bit Grouchy, but instead of Harping on about evil company directors, why don't you simply become one? It's a free country.
(That's what they fought for, that and your right to copy and paste articles from Socialist Worker and whinge)
Mr ddc
"
As a pedant (and a Marxist) - I would like to point out that this deviates from Marx somewhat.
Also; Swappies are Trotskyites. |
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" As a pedant (and a Marxist) - I would like to point out that this deviates from Marx somewhat.
Also; Swappies are Trotskyites. "
Probably.
But sometimes my humour necessitates a little leeway. The Trotsky Brothers never did so well as a slapstick ensemble...
(Besides, so many of my set-ups never get to the punchline!) |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"But if you set aside geography for a moment, people have always moved to where the jobs are, to create a better life for their children. We moved from country to city, we moved to the coal-fields and the steelworks. We moved to the ports and the factories. We eveyn left for countries like Australia, Canada and America. In effect we have simply enlarged the area we are moving around.
We are not victims of evil forces, but 'victims' of our own success: having a thriving country that everyone else wants to come to.
No-one has to settle for any job, we are all free to aspire to better ourselves.
And yes OP, there are some who believe that the difference between the richest and the poorest can be minimised by culling the rich, thereby lowering the average. But I prefer the idea of facilitating opportunities for all, and instead raising the average that way."
Listening to The Shepherd's Life by James Rebanks illustrates that local movement perfectly and just how uncomfortable the number of incomers have made the local Cumbrians feel.
We're territorial but we risk atrophy (and in-breeding) if we don't migrate and welcome others in.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There was a time when humans were dwindled down to around 20,000 mating pairs! This make you statistically at least the fifth cousin of anybody.
Yes even people you don't like |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Jesus! What an unbelievable mixture of bigotry, lies and failed Marxist ideology.
I hate to sound a bit Grouchy, but instead of Harping on about evil company directors, why don't you simply become one? It's a free country.
(That's what they fought for, that and your right to copy and paste articles from Socialist Worker and whinge)
Mr ddc
I see what you did there
I would have mentioned the other one, but if I'm honest I never forgave Zippo for leaving them to run off with Bungle, George and Geoffrey
"
I did wonder whether you were including Jesus as a Marx brother |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Jesus! What an unbelievable mixture of bigotry, lies and failed Marxist ideology.
I hate to sound a bit Grouchy, but instead of Harping on about evil company directors, why don't you simply become one? It's a free country.
(That's what they fought for, that and your right to copy and paste articles from Socialist Worker and whinge)
Mr ddc
I see what you did there
I would have mentioned the other one, but if I'm honest I never forgave Zippo for leaving them to run off with Bungle, George and Geoffrey
I did wonder whether you were including Jesus as a Marx brother "
.
There was four marx brothers though  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I mean they upped and fucked off from Africa just in time to catch the continents break up and get Australia to themselves
Greedy bastards nicking kangaroos jobs |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Jesus! What an unbelievable mixture of bigotry, lies and failed Marxist ideology.
I hate to sound a bit Grouchy, but instead of Harping on about evil company directors, why don't you simply become one? It's a free country.
(That's what they fought for, that and your right to copy and paste articles from Socialist Worker and whinge)
Mr ddc
I see what you did there
I would have mentioned the other one, but if I'm honest I never forgave Zippo for leaving them to run off with Bungle, George and Geoffrey
I did wonder whether you were including Jesus as a Marx brother .
There was four marx brothers though "
I thought there were 5? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Nobody ever remembers zeppo
I think you'll find the least popular of the brothers was Skid...
"
.
Yeah he made a good living in the lighter entertainment |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Jesus! What an unbelievable mixture of bigotry, lies and failed Marxist ideology.
I hate to sound a bit Grouchy, but instead of Harping on about evil company directors, why don't you simply become one? It's a free country.
(That's what they fought for, that and your right to copy and paste articles from Socialist Worker and whinge)
Mr ddc
I see what you did there
I would have mentioned the other one, but if I'm honest I never forgave Zippo for leaving them to run off with Bungle, George and Geoffrey
I did wonder whether you were including Jesus as a Marx brother .
There was four marx brothers though
I thought there were 5?"
.
Nobody includes him
Zeppo was bad enough... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
There was four marx brothers though
I thought there were 5?
Groucho, Harpo, Chico, Gummo, Zeppo and Karl.
Six
"
.
Fuck me there breeding like catholic immigrants.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Anecdotally there is some evidence that freedom of movement of EU citizens has led to the suppression of wages in certain industries. But instead of blaming those who simply seek to work from less affluent parts of the EU (and I firmly believe the UK has got and continues to get, a lot out of being a member of the EU) we should ensure door to protect agency and temporary workers. But that'll never happen under a Tory government. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
There was four marx brothers though
I thought there were 5?
Groucho, Harpo, Chico, Gummo, Zeppo and Karl.
Six
"
.
Karl....errr did he ever get the feeling he was illegitimate |
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"
There was four marx brothers though
I thought there were 5?
Groucho, Harpo, Chico, Gummo, Zeppo and Karl.
Six
.
Fuck me there breeding like catholic immigrants.... "
If we include Jesus we'd have enough for deeply philosphical, slightly political but nevertheless humerous remake of Snow White
"Hi, Ho, Hi, Ho, It's off to work for the evil capitalistic scum we go. But we'll turn the other cheek and forgive them" |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
There was four marx brothers though
I thought there were 5?
Groucho, Harpo, Chico, Gummo, Zeppo and Karl.
Six
.
Fuck me there breeding like catholic immigrants....
If we include Jesus we'd have enough for deeply philosphical, slightly political but nevertheless humerous remake of Snow White
"Hi, Ho, Hi, Ho, It's off to work for the evil capitalistic scum we go. But we'll turn the other cheek and forgive them""
.
Hehe, come the revolution I shall see that you are spared for jester entertainment!
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
There was four marx brothers though
I thought there were 5?
Groucho, Harpo, Chico, Gummo, Zeppo and Karl.
Six
.
Fuck me there breeding like catholic immigrants.... "
.
After a quick thumb through wiki.
It turns out they were Jewish immigrants and Harpos real name was Adolph . |
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"After a quick thumb through wiki.
."
Where so you think I get ALL my info?
I'm really as thick as pig-shit, but I vaguely recollect enough to enable Wiki and Google to be my friend.
I would have been stuffed last week if it hadn't been for the handy Daily Mail "who should I vote for?" app!!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"After a quick thumb through wiki.
.
Where so you think I get ALL my info?
I'm really as thick as pig-shit, but I vaguely recollect enough to enable Wiki and Google to be my friend.
I would have been stuffed last week if it hadn't been for the handy Daily Mail "who should I vote for?" app!!
"
.
Ohhh I just thought you were one of those clever capitalist buggers trying to pull the wool over my eyes ....
Either that or you were copying the answers from the mrs..sshh(it's what I do too) |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"capitalism is our modern world...liker it or lump it...
but does it really have to come down to immigration?
even without an influx of people from other countries, there would still be divides amongst the divided
"
Allow me to educate you.
There are many variations of capitalism.
In Australia, they participate in globalisation: they allow lots of migrants into the country every year.
Unlike the UK, the Australians are selective regarding the migrants they allow in. Therefore, they do not have an excess supply of labour. The migrants add to the economy without contributing to a significant reserve army of labour. This means that both the workers and the capitalists benefit from globalisation.
Unfortunately, the UK version of globalisation has involved excessive immigration. This has created a significant reserve army of labour and the capitalists have been able to take most of the benefits of capitalism for themselves.
Everyone should benefit from capitalism. |
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"capitalism is our modern world...liker it or lump it...
but does it really have to come down to immigration?
even without an influx of people from other countries, there would still be divides amongst the divided
"
The biggest power over us is division.
The sad thing is it doesn't take a lot.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Tony Blair's destructive immigration policy has resulted in Britain losing it's common national identity and the formation of a significant reserve army of labour.
A reserve army of labour is a reference to a group that comprises of the underemployed and unemployed. Karl Marx argued that the capitalists will endeavour to exploit those who are employed by utilising the reserve army of labour. When a society suffers from either a significant degree of underemployment or unemployment then the capitalists can use these unfortunate people to discipline those who are in regular employment: if employees perceive that they will be unsuccessful in finding alternative employment then they are more likely to be more submissive when it comes to negotiating pay and working conditions with their current employers.
Just think of the rise of zero hour contracts, unpaid interns and employers refusing to increase pay for their workers. Ask yourself if you would reconsider leaving your job if you perceived that a zero hour contract job would be the only realistic form of employment. What would you give up to stay? Unsurprisingly, in 2013 the pay of company directors in the UK rose by an average of 14% from the previous year.
Under labour net migration in Britain significantly increased from the tens of thousands to the hundreds of thousands. Despite the conservative promises to reduce immigration, Britain had net migration of nearly 300,000 people in 2014. In 1997, net migration was only about 50,000. Also, it has been calculated that over 3 million people came to the UK during Labours time in power.
Despite the economic trouble Britain has endured over the past 5 years, the capitalists encouraged the Government to maintain the volume of people migrating to this country because it served their purpose of exploiting workers.
In my opinion Tony Blair, David Cameron and the rest of the Westminster political class have destroyed this country by forming an alliance with the capitalists and deliberately administering a policy of aggressive globalisation. Excessive immigration not only creates the conditions for employers to exploit workers, it also destroys the national identity.
In hindsight, If those brave warriors who fought for this country in the world wars could see what has happened to this country, I am convinced that they would not have bothered sacrificing their lives.
Would that include immigrants like my Grandad and his brother who fought in the war?
Or the immigrants like my parents happily living their Caribbean ideal when the conservative government came calling, BEGGING the islanders to come to Britain to help rebuild it after the war.
They arrived on British passports from Jamaica to hostility. Confused and hurt that the people they came to help were downright nasty.
"
Why are you making a reference to the relatively modest immigration of the 1970's? It has no relevance to the original post.
Tony Blair and his Labour friends started the project of mass immigration in 1997. David Cameron has just continued with what he started. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Tony Blair's destructive immigration policy has resulted in Britain losing it's common national identity and the formation of a significant reserve army of labour.
(...)
In hindsight, If those brave warriors who fought for this country in the world wars could see what has happened to this country, I am convinced that they would not have bothered sacrificing their lives.
The national identify that I find affinity with is one of exciting multiculturalism.
My Grandfather felt that way too. Although he did not sacrifice his life in the war, only his leg. So perhaps his view doesn't count."
The British national identity had been stolen by the lefties who pander to the minorities.
The minority should change their ways for the majority and not the other way around.
When in Rome does as the Romans do and don't complain too much. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"OP, the trouble with all that outdated Marxist terminology is that it makes it sound as if individuals are deliberately setting out to exploit whole "classes" of people in a secret plot. They are not.
And I failed to understand Milliband's constant reference to helping the working family. There are very few people who do not work."
Capitalists want to make money. Profits increase when the cost of labour is reduced. Lots of unemployed people create an excess supply of labour and capitalists are able to utilise this to stop wages increasing.
During the horrible economic troubles that we have experienced the capitalists promoted greater levels of immigration because they do benefit from a significant reserve army of labour.
It is absurd that you proclaim that the capitalists do not endeavour to exploit classes of people. Well why don't you go over to Indian and tell that to the workers who earn a few Dollars a day working in the sweatshops for the large capitalist multi-national co-operations. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Tony Blair's destructive immigration policy has resulted in Britain losing it's common national identity and the formation of a significant reserve army of labour.
A reserve army of labour is a reference to a group that comprises of the underemployed and unemployed. Karl Marx argued that the capitalists will endeavour to exploit those who are employed by utilising the reserve army of labour. When a society suffers from either a significant degree of underemployment or unemployment then the capitalists can use these unfortunate people to discipline those who are in regular employment: if employees perceive that they will be unsuccessful in finding alternative employment then they are more likely to be more submissive when it comes to negotiating pay and working conditions with their current employers.
Just think of the rise of zero hour contracts, unpaid interns and employers refusing to increase pay for their workers. Ask yourself if you would reconsider leaving your job if you perceived that a zero hour contract job would be the only realistic form of employment. What would you give up to stay? Unsurprisingly, in 2013 the pay of company directors in the UK rose by an average of 14% from the previous year.
Under labour net migration in Britain significantly increased from the tens of thousands to the hundreds of thousands. Despite the conservative promises to reduce immigration, Britain had net migration of nearly 300,000 people in 2014. In 1997, net migration was only about 50,000. Also, it has been calculated that over 3 million people came to the UK during Labours time in power.
Despite the economic trouble Britain has endured over the past 5 years, the capitalists encouraged the Government to maintain the volume of people migrating to this country because it served their purpose of exploiting workers.
In my opinion Tony Blair, David Cameron and the rest of the Westminster political class have destroyed this country by forming an alliance with the capitalists and deliberately administering a policy of aggressive globalisation. Excessive immigration not only creates the conditions for employers to exploit workers, it also destroys the national identity.
In hindsight, If those brave warriors who fought for this country in the world wars could see what has happened to this country, I am convinced that they would not have bothered sacrificing their lives.
Jesus! What an unbelievable mixture of bigotry, lies and failed Marxist ideology.
I hate to sound a bit Grouchy, but instead of Harping on about evil company directors, why don't you simply become one? It's a free country.
(That's what they fought for, that and your right to copy and paste articles from Socialist Worker and whinge)
Mr ddc
"
Don't try and make out that you know me from a post.
Your lack of education makes you appear like a rather stupid and ignorant person. The first world war was about British Imperialism and the Second world war was about fighting German fascism.
I have just read absurd your comment again and it, like you, is ridiculous! |
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"
Jesus! What an unbelievable mixture of bigotry, lies and failed Marxist ideology.
I hate to sound a bit Grouchy, but instead of Harping on about evil company directors, why don't you simply become one? It's a free country.
(That's what they fought for, that and your right to copy and paste articles from Socialist Worker and whinge)
Mr ddc
Don't try and make out that you know me from a post.
Your lack of education makes you appear like a rather stupid and ignorant person. The first world war was about British Imperialism and the Second world war was about fighting German fascism.
I have just read absurd your comment again and it, like you, is ridiculous!"
I don't and I didn't.
Possibly.
It wasn't, it was more about Austro-Hungary and Russia fighting over the dying embers of the Ottoman empire.
Agreed.
Probably, but is that so wrong?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"What national identity? England was created by successive waves of immigrants . "
Yes, successive waves of modest immigration over many centuries.
Tony Blair is the man responsible for deliberately administering EXCESSIVE immigration over a relatively small period of time.
In my opinion, Tony Blair and his friends are traitors and should be punished accordingly. I hope the SNP take over in Scotland and the UKIP rise up in the North of England. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Blaming immigration for the country's problems is like blaming cold weather for having a small dick, migrant workers will do the hard jobs, and do them well, because unlike a lot of British born people, who are comfortable on the soft benefits cushion, they have a work ethic, how many times have I heard people say "I'm better off on the dole" yeah in some cases the benefits you receive would equal or better how much you would get in a minimum wage job, but when was the last time you heard of someone getting overtime on the dole? If the lazy Jeremy Kyle generation got off their arses and took a job that they could work at and gain promotion, the migrant workers that everyone moans about wouldn't be able to get a job, but no, they would rather sit on their arses all day smoking and bitching and moaning about how the can't get a job, yes you can, it just takes more effort that moaning about it.
Oh and stop blaming Tony Blair for everything, a return to "Blairite" values to the Labour Party is what is needed right now, and it's how we can get the Tories out at the next general election, I know that's not a popular view, but it's mine and I stand by it"
I could not be bothered reading everything you wrote because I found it rather boring.
Excessive immigration hurts people who are employed because an excess supply of labour puts the capitalists in a commanding position to refuse wage rises.
You proclaim that we need to adopt Blairite values. Are those the same values that started false wars in countries far away? I think I will adopt better values than those promoted by Blair and his mischievous friends. |
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