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Should wool whistling be a sex crime?
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"Just watching the wright stuff and this subject came up. Do you think wolf whistling should be a sex crime or does it not bother you?" Wool whistling? You Welsh have all the fun! 
Mr.ddc | |||
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"Ahh fuck just noticed the title and can't change it! "  | |||
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"Just watching the wright stuff and this subject came up. Do you think wolf whistling should be a sex crime or does it not bother you? Wool whistling? You Welsh have all the fun!
Mr.ddc"I'm imaging the OP with a flock of sheep following, I should get out more. | |||
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"Ahh fuck just noticed the title and can't change it! " Made me laugh that | |||
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"That's a Freudian slip" For flocks sake, would ewe believe it? | |||
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"That's a Freudian slip For flocks sake, would ewe believe it? " | |||
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"That's a Freudian slip For flocks sake, would ewe believe it? " I'm not encouraging any more of these. They're too baaaaaaad | |||
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"not at all. I find it very flattering tbh. makes me smile "Same here  | |||
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"That's a Freudian slip For flocks sake, would ewe believe it? I'm not encouraging any more of these. They're too baaaaaaad "Nonsense, I think it's mint. And I'm gonna keep ramming my puns home until I look all sheepish | |||
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"That's a Freudian slip For flocks sake, would ewe believe it? I'm not encouraging any more of these. They're too baaaaaaad
Nonsense, I think it's mint.
And I'm gonna keep ramming my puns home until I look all sheepish
"like a lamb to the slaughter  | |||
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"Ahh fuck just noticed the title and can't change it! " i did same one one off my post put a wrong spelling . It's easy done ! | |||
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"Ahh fuck just noticed the title and can't change it! " Wouldn't worry, I started a thread, about club attire.. Told everyone I was thinking of wearing my hotpot.. Oh the joys! Pmsl | |||
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"Ahh fuck just noticed the title and can't change it! Wouldn't worry, I started a thread, about club attire.. Told everyone I was thinking of wearing my hotpot.. Oh the joys! Pmsl" Was it a lamb hotpot ?
A | |||
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"Ahh fuck just noticed the title and can't change it! Wouldn't worry, I started a thread, about club attire.. Told everyone I was thinking of wearing my hotpot.. Oh the joys! Pmsl Was it a lamb hotpot ?
A"Baaaaahhhhhh | |||
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"No, but it does automatically make the whistler a dickhead" 
But I also think employers should take more responsibility as it is a form of harassment | |||
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"Seeing the story of the young lady being harassed on her way to work for nearly a month, there was a definite line crossed from a casual wolf whistle "Agree. That is no way acceptable behaviour. | |||
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"Seeing the story of the young lady being harassed on her way to work for nearly a month, there was a definite line crossed from a casual wolf whistle "Yes there used to be certain building sites that I would avoid if possible. I shouldn't have had to do that. | |||
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"Seeing the story of the young lady being harassed on her way to work for nearly a month, there was a definite line crossed from a casual wolf whistle
Agree. That is no way acceptable behaviour. "Agreed. Too much of a bad thing. | |||
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"It's a tricky one for sure, everyone's "offence" levels are different so next to impossible to judge what's acceptable and what's not. Regarding the case in today's paper, not really a police matter, I'm pretty sure they have better things to do with their time. I believe the ladies case would have been better served by reporting it to the site manager, not the police. If she felt so intimidated that she felt it impossible to walk into the site office I'm sure there were plenty of signs up with the site phone number. In this instance, mountain molehill." ah there speaks a man who has never walked a mile in a woman's shoes  | |||
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"Just watching the wright stuff and this subject came up. Do you think wolf whistling should be a sex crime or does it not bother you? Wool whistling? You Welsh have all the fun!
Mr.ddc
I'm imaging the OP with a flock of sheep following, I should get out more. " | |||
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As for o p and wool bit he has gone bit sheepish since the post ?? | |||
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"Just watching the wright stuff and this subject came up. Do you think wolf whistling should be a sex crime or does it not bother you?" I believe it should fall under the banner of sexual harassment. | |||
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"It's a tricky one for sure, everyone's "offence" levels are different so next to impossible to judge what's acceptable and what's not. Regarding the case in today's paper, not really a police matter, I'm pretty sure they have better things to do with their time. I believe the ladies case would have been better served by reporting it to the site manager, not the police. If she felt so intimidated that she felt it impossible to walk into the site office I'm sure there were plenty of signs up with the site phone number. In this instance, mountain molehill. ah there speaks a man who has never walked a mile in a woman's shoes "Preach! | |||
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"It makes me uncomfortable. I'm not a dog. I'm not against compliments designed to make you feel good. A wolf-whistle is not a compliment, it's a leer, it's some random bloke in the street letting the world know what he thinks of you, whether you want him to or not. I don't want that kind of attention when I'm just going to work or whatever. It's generally not just the whistle itself it's the abuse that follows if you fail to acknowledge it or if the whistler decides you've snubbed them by not smiling. That said, I'm not sure what making it a crime would achieve. " rather than make it a crime I would like men to understand how it feels to be walking alone and have a group of men whistling and shouting comments, humiliating to be treated in public as a sex object and uncomfortable that everyone in the street can hear for starters. I'm all for a bit of friendly fun and flirting and would enjoy and appreciative glance and friendly "hello" but I used to get very fed up of the comments about my breasts shouted in public by random strangers backed up by a gang of leering cronies. | |||
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"No I don't think it should be a crime. " Forgot to add.. But on the rare occasions it happens to me, I don't find it enjoyable or flattering. | |||
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"It's a tricky one for sure, everyone's "offence" levels are different so next to impossible to judge what's acceptable and what's not. Regarding the case in today's paper, not really a police matter, I'm pretty sure they have better things to do with their time. I believe the ladies case would have been better served by reporting it to the site manager, not the police. If she felt so intimidated that she felt it impossible to walk into the site office I'm sure there were plenty of signs up with the site phone number. In this instance, mountain molehill." So basically it's her fault for being offended, not the men's for harassing her? | |||
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"Just watching the wright stuff and this subject came up. Do you think wolf whistling should be a sex crime or does it not bother you? I believe it should fall under the banner of sexual harassment." 100% | |||
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"Fucks sske how bad has it got that this is even discussed at all esp on tv political correctness gone made. Wait for tories latest announcement they will ban it
As for o p and wool bit he has gone bit sheepish since the post ??"How is it political correctness gone mad? | |||
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"It's a tricky one for sure, everyone's "offence" levels are different so next to impossible to judge what's acceptable and what's not. Regarding the case in today's paper, not really a police matter, I'm pretty sure they have better things to do with their time. I believe the ladies case would have been better served by reporting it to the site manager, not the police. If she felt so intimidated that she felt it impossible to walk into the site office I'm sure there were plenty of signs up with the site phone number. In this instance, mountain molehill." I wouldn't feel comfortable making that phone call. Can you imagine the next time you walked past, if those guys had a ticking off from their site manager and them all watching you? | |||
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"It's a tricky one for sure, everyone's "offence" levels are different so next to impossible to judge what's acceptable and what's not. Regarding the case in today's paper, not really a police matter, I'm pretty sure they have better things to do with their time. I believe the ladies case would have been better served by reporting it to the site manager, not the police. If she felt so intimidated that she felt it impossible to walk into the site office I'm sure there were plenty of signs up with the site phone number. In this instance, mountain molehill. ah there speaks a man who has never walked a mile in a woman's shoes "You don't know that I haven't. But for the sake of clarification, I haven't.
I'm not for one minute suggesting this was anything other than improper behavior or in any way acceptable.
Merely that by making it a police matter was making a mountain out of a molehill.
The site manager would most likely have taken a very dim view of the behaviors of his workforce.
Thankfully attitudes in the construction industry are changing, maybe not quick enough for some, but it's nothing like it was even 10 years ago.
Most building sites now participate in a considerate contractor programme which clearly display phone numbers and names for the general public to use in cases like this. | |||
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" rather than make it a crime I would like men to understand how it feels to be walking alone and have a group of men whistling and shouting comments, humiliating to be treated in public as a sex object and uncomfortable that everyone in the street can hear for starters. I'm all for a bit of friendly fun and flirting and would enjoy and appreciative glance and friendly "hello" but I used to get very fed up of the comments about my breasts shouted in public by random strangers backed up by a gang of leering cronies. " I find it doubly uncomfortable for my breasts are a large part of my body dysphoria do to with being genderqueer/trans. When someone makes unsolicited 'positive' comments about my breasts all I hear is 'your worth as a human is tied directly to how nice other people think your breasts are'. | |||
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"It's a tricky one for sure, everyone's "offence" levels are different so next to impossible to judge what's acceptable and what's not. Regarding the case in today's paper, not really a police matter, I'm pretty sure they have better things to do with their time. I believe the ladies case would have been better served by reporting it to the site manager, not the police. If she felt so intimidated that she felt it impossible to walk into the site office I'm sure there were plenty of signs up with the site phone number. In this instance, mountain molehill. So basically it's her fault for being offended, not the men's for harassing her?" That is NOT what I said. | |||
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"Merely that by making it a police matter was making a mountain out of a molehill. The site manager would most likely have taken a very dim view of the behaviors of his workforce. Thankfully attitudes in the construction industry are changing, maybe not quick enough for some, but it's nothing like it was even 10 years ago. Most building sites now participate in a considerate contractor programme which clearly display phone numbers and names for the general public to use in cases like this." I would not have the confidence to go to a site manager about this - because a site manager would almost certainly be aware of the behaviour of their staff and had already clearly taken no action to stop it. | |||
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" rather than make it a crime I would like men to understand how it feels to be walking alone and have a group of men whistling and shouting comments, humiliating to be treated in public as a sex object and uncomfortable that everyone in the street can hear for starters. I'm all for a bit of friendly fun and flirting and would enjoy and appreciative glance and friendly "hello" but I used to get very fed up of the comments about my breasts shouted in public by random strangers backed up by a gang of leering cronies. I find it doubly uncomfortable for my breasts are a large part of my body dysphoria do to with being genderqueer/trans. When someone makes unsolicited 'positive' comments about my breasts all I hear is 'your worth as a human is tied directly to how nice other people think your breasts are'." that's basically what they are saying to all women, fortunately I just thought they were fools rather than social commentators. | |||
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"rather than make it a crime I would like men to understand how it feels to be walking alone and have a group of men whistling and shouting comments, humiliating to be treated in public as a sex object and uncomfortable that everyone in the street can hear for starters." Any bloke stuck near a hen party should have some idea | |||
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"It's a tricky one for sure, everyone's "offence" levels are different so next to impossible to judge what's acceptable and what's not. Regarding the case in today's paper, not really a police matter, I'm pretty sure they have better things to do with their time. I believe the ladies case would have been better served by reporting it to the site manager, not the police. If she felt so intimidated that she felt it impossible to walk into the site office I'm sure there were plenty of signs up with the site phone number. In this instance, mountain molehill. ah there speaks a man who has never walked a mile in a woman's shoes
You don't know that I haven't. But for the sake of clarification, I haven't.
I'm not for one minute suggesting this was anything other than improper behavior or in any way acceptable.
Merely that by making it a police matter was making a mountain out of a molehill.
The site manager would most likely have taken a very dim view of the behaviors of his workforce.
Thankfully attitudes in the construction industry are changing, maybe not quick enough for some, but it's nothing like it was even 10 years ago.
Most building sites now participate in a considerate contractor programme which clearly display phone numbers and names for the general public to use in cases like this."it was your mountain out of a molehill comment that prompted mine. It would be very difficult for a woman who felt demeaned and humiliated to report that to the source of the problem. It might be a molehill to you but its a mountain to her and not in my opinion of her making. | |||
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"rather than make it a crime I would like men to understand how it feels to be walking alone and have a group of men whistling and shouting comments, humiliating to be treated in public as a sex object and uncomfortable that everyone in the street can hear for starters. Any bloke stuck near a hen party should have some idea" Just as bad and just as offensive in my opinion. | |||
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"Any bloke stuck near a hen party should have some idea" Now imagine that feeling that you have experienced a few times... but imagine the risk of that happening every day while in public. And then imagine that you're generally physically smaller and weaker than the people making the comments so if you don't give their desired reaction you're at real risk of physical harm. And then know that even if you move yourself away from that situation, the same situation could possibly play out in the place that you move to. And imagine it happening regularly from the age of about 13/14. | |||
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"It's a tricky one for sure, everyone's "offence" levels are different so next to impossible to judge what's acceptable and what's no Regarding the case in today's paper, not really a police matter, I'm pretty sure they have better things to do with their time. I believe the ladies case would have been better served by reporting it to the site manager, not the police. If she felt so intimidated that she felt it impossible to walk into the site office I'm sure there were plenty of signs up with the site phone number. In this instance, mountain molehill. So basically it's her fault for being offended, not the men's for harassing her? That is NOT what I said." So when you said it was difficult to judge how easily someone was offended and that it was a mountain out of a mole hill what did you mean? Would you be happy if people shouted abuse at you on a daily basis while innocently going about your business? | |||
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"No, but it does automatically make the whistler a dickhead" Agree x | |||
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"Seeing the story of the young lady being harassed on her way to work for nearly a month, there was a definite line crossed from a casual wolf whistle
Agree. That is no way acceptable behaviour.
Agreed. Too much of a bad thing. "However the lady was being interviewed and she stated, that it's ok if she was on a night out with friends and a group of guy's in a pub or club to do it if the girls out for the night. Errrr excuse me if it offensive when on way to work it should be equally as offensive as when out. You can't pick and choose when you may deem it offensive. Maybe the builders are an easy target? I as a builder have bollocked many guy's for shouting at women and it is banned and a sackable offence on most site's. Don't let a moronic minority tar us all with same brush. I have been leared and wolf whistled by groups of women when working next to office's. The ladies used to take their llunchtime on the grass outside to leer at us working on site nextdoor. I was alot younger then
I agree she shouldn't be harassed but also think she can't pick and choose when it suit's her. | |||
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"No, but it does automatically make the whistler a dickhead Agree x" me too | |||
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"It's only a crime though if the person who is being whistled AT finds the person DOING the whistling ugly. That's why you could never enforce it because fuck me, the local Police stations phone would be ringing off the hook. "If David Beckham and Brad Pitt wolf whistled at me i'd still tell them to fuck off | |||
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"Ahh fuck just noticed the title and can't change it! " This is class Athena fair play. Ida love my sheep aye beaut. It's cos we're Welsh mun init. Xx | |||
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"Any bloke stuck near a hen party should have some idea Now imagine that feeling that you have experienced a few times... but imagine the risk of that happening every day while in public. And then imagine that you're generally physically smaller and weaker than the people making the comments so if you don't give their desired reaction you're at real risk of physical harm. And then know that even if you move yourself away from that situation, the same situation could possibly play out in the place that you move to. And imagine it happening regularly from the age of about 13/14."
So what do you think their desired reaction is? | |||
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"It's only a crime though if the person who is being whistled AT finds the person DOING the whistling ugly. That's why you could never enforce it because fuck me, the local Police stations phone would be ringing off the hook. "No, it's equally offensive if I think they're fit as it is if I think they're ugly. | |||
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"It's only a crime though if the person who is being whistled AT finds the person DOING the whistling ugly. That's why you could never enforce it because fuck me, the local Police stations phone would be ringing off the hook.
If David Beckham and Brad Pitt wolf whistled at me i'd still tell them to fuck off " | |||
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" So what do you think their desired reaction is?" I'm not quite sure. Last time I was feeling ballsy and answered back 'fancy a fuck mate? right here, right now on the pavement?' the guy went bright red and didn't have much to say for himself. | |||
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"No, but it does automatically make the whistler a dickhead" And your argument for this is? | |||
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" So what do you think their desired reaction is? I'm not quite sure. Last time I was feeling ballsy and answered back 'fancy a fuck mate? right here, right now on the pavement?' the guy went bright red and didn't have much to say for himself." this is the kind of attitude i give them, never had any issues, also laboured on a few sites, and apart from the sexist remarks about it being my job to make the tea, iv never found it anything but a good laugh. | |||
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"No, but it does automatically make the whistler a dickhead And your argument for this is?" Only dickheads feel the need to loudly comment on women's bodies in public? | |||
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"No, but it does automatically make the whistler a dickhead And your argument for this is?" Only dickheads need to wolf whistle people? Seems pretty easy to follow for me. | |||
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" this is the kind of attitude i give them, never had any issues, also laboured on a few sites, and apart from the sexist remarks about it being my job to make the tea, iv never found it anything but a good laugh." I don't find it a good laugh. I find it intimidating, stressful and upsetting. I also worked in a 'man's' career in both deep sea and warehouse logistics, and I didn't put up with 'banter' there either. | |||
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"It's a tricky one for sure, everyone's "offence" levels are different so next to impossible to judge what's acceptable and what's not. Regarding the case in today's paper, not really a police matter, I'm pretty sure they have better things to do with their time. I believe the ladies case would have been better served by reporting it to the site manager, not the police. If she felt so intimidated that she felt it impossible to walk into the site office I'm sure there were plenty of signs up with the site phone number. In this instance, mountain molehill. ah there speaks a man who has never walked a mile in a woman's shoes
You don't know that I haven't. But for the sake of clarification, I haven't.
I'm not for one minute suggesting this was anything other than improper behavior or in any way acceptable.
Merely that by making it a police matter was making a mountain out of a molehill.
The site manager would most likely have taken a very dim view of the behaviors of his workforce.
Thankfully attitudes in the construction industry are changing, maybe not quick enough for some, but it's nothing like it was even 10 years ago.
Most building sites now participate in a considerate contractor programme which clearly display phone numbers and names for the general public to use in cases like this.
it was your mountain out of a molehill comment that prompted mine. It would be very difficult for a woman who felt demeaned and humiliated to report that to the source of the problem. It might be a molehill to you but its a mountain to her and not in my opinion of her making. "I don't think it's a problem of her making either. I couldn't agree more that in this instance the lady was offended and uncomfortable and that's just not acceptable. It's behavior like this that the considerate contractor programme is out there, to stop this kind of thing. If we don't use it, it will never work. It's also anonymous, and in situations like this the workmen involved would have found themselves in deep doo doo. Perhaps more should be done to empower women to feel comfortable in taking action to stamp this out. We've just removed a contractor from site for something pretty similar. Skip driver tooting his horn and whistling to two women walking down the street. And it was a man that reported him, not the women. We're getting smarter ladies, really we are. | |||
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"No, but it does automatically make the whistler a dickhead And your argument for this is?" What's your argument that it doesn't? | |||
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" this is the kind of attitude i give them, never had any issues, also laboured on a few sites, and apart from the sexist remarks about it being my job to make the tea, iv never found it anything but a good laugh. I don't find it a good laugh. I find it intimidating, stressful and upsetting. I also worked in a 'man's' career in both deep sea and warehouse logistics, and I didn't put up with 'banter' there either." must just be my sense of humour then, because i prefer working with men, than women, banter is better than the bitchyness iv had to endure in female dominated enviroments. | |||
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" So what do you think their desired reaction is? I'm not quite sure. Last time I was feeling ballsy and answered back 'fancy a fuck mate? right here, right now on the pavement?' the guy went bright red and didn't have much to say for himself." So how can you be at risk of physical harm if you don't know what the desired reaction is? | |||
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" So what do you think their desired reaction is? I'm not quite sure. Last time I was feeling ballsy and answered back 'fancy a fuck mate? right here, right now on the pavement?' the guy went bright red and didn't have much to say for himself. So how can you be at risk of physical harm if you don't know what the desired reaction is?" You can FEEL at risk of physical harm even if you don't know what the motivation is. | |||
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" So what do you think their desired reaction is? I'm not quite sure. Last time I was feeling ballsy and answered back 'fancy a fuck mate? right here, right now on the pavement?' the guy went bright red and didn't have much to say for himself. So how can you be at risk of physical harm if you don't know what the desired reaction is?" Because women in the past have been attacked physically because they've snubbed the wolf-whistler? | |||
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"No, but it does automatically make the whistler a dickhead And your argument for this is? Only dickheads feel the need to loudly comment on women's bodies in public?" How nieve And ridiculous I'm always flattered frankly | |||
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"No, but it does automatically make the whistler a dickhead And your argument for this is? Only dickheads need to wolf whistle people? Seems pretty easy to follow for me. " Pretty sweeping statement to make about a person. I appreciate some ladies don't like it, but some do. It's a sign of appreciation. I'm pretty sure most blokes do it to impress not to offend. Failing to achieve that effect obviously. And no I don't do it before you ask. | |||
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"No, but it does automatically make the whistler a dickhead And your argument for this is? What's your argument that it doesn't? " See above | |||
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"How nieve And ridiculous I'm always flattered frankly " Good for you. Many of us are not. | |||
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"I personally think it's a way of telling the lady's they're hot! "Do you think they want your opinion on their bodies? | |||
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"No, but it does automatically make the whistler a dickhead And your argument for this is? Only dickheads need to wolf whistle people? Seems pretty easy to follow for me. Pretty sweeping statement to make about a person. I appreciate some ladies don't like it, but some do. It's a sign of appreciation. I'm pretty sure most blokes do it to impress not to offend. Failing to achieve that effect obviously. And no I don't do it before you ask. " If they think the way to impress a woman is to whistle at her or shout loudly in the street, then yeah they're a dickhead. | |||
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"No, but it does automatically make the whistler a dickhead And your argument for this is? Only dickheads need to wolf whistle people? Seems pretty easy to follow for me. Pretty sweeping statement to make about a person. I appreciate some ladies don't like it, but some do. It's a sign of appreciation. I'm pretty sure most blokes do it to impress not to offend. Failing to achieve that effect obviously. And no I don't do it before you ask. " Is it not a sweeping generalisation to say most mean do it to impress? | |||
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" So what do you think their desired reaction is? I'm not quite sure. Last time I was feeling ballsy and answered back 'fancy a fuck mate? right here, right now on the pavement?' the guy went bright red and didn't have much to say for himself. So how can you be at risk of physical harm if you don't know what the desired reaction is? Because women in the past have been attacked physically because they've snubbed the wolf-whistler?" Really? I doubt you could cite a case And what makes you think a guy wolf whistling equates to him wanting to fuck you? | |||
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"just because something makes someone feel uncomfortable, doesn't mean it's harassment or a crime " Google defines sexual harassment as: "harassment (typically of a woman) in a workplace, or other professional or social situation, involving the making of unwanted sexual advances or obscene remark" I'd suggest that in most cases a wolf whistle is either a sexual advance or an obscene remark. I'd also suggest that it's mostly unwanted. So how is it *not* sexual harassment? | |||
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"How nieve And ridiculous I'm always flattered frankly Good for you. Many of us are not." No Oh but I bet these same women who are not, will ogle and comment on men And women that they like the look of Some of the worst offenders of verbal sexual inappropriate behaviour I've witnessed have been women Because men are too scared To do it | |||
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" Really? I doubt you could cite a case And what makes you think a guy wolf whistling equates to him wanting to fuck you?" I've personally been grabbed by the arm after asking someone not to wolf whistle at me in the street and told I was ugly anyway. It happened on a Friday or Saturday evening outside a pub. Why would a man wolf-whistle if he *didn't* find you sexually attractive? The only other answer I can come up with is that he wants to intimidate and upset someone - which I don't think is actually any better. | |||
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" So what do you think their desired reaction is? I'm not quite sure. Last time I was feeling ballsy and answered back 'fancy a fuck mate? right here, right now on the pavement?' the guy went bright red and didn't have much to say for himself. So how can you be at risk of physical harm if you don't know what the desired reaction is? Because women in the past have been attacked physically because they've snubbed the wolf-whistler? Really? I doubt you could cite a case And what makes you think a guy wolf whistling equates to him wanting to fuck you?" Why is he whistling then? | |||
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"just because something makes someone feel uncomfortable, doesn't mean it's harassment or a crime " So what is it? | |||
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" No Oh but I bet these same women who are not, will ogle and comment on men And women that they like the look of Some of the worst offenders of verbal sexual inappropriate behaviour I've witnessed have been women Because men are too scared To do it " I would not personally do that and I don't believe it is right for people to do that. | |||
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"just because something makes someone feel uncomfortable, doesn't mean it's harassment or a crime Google defines sexual harassment as: "harassment (typically of a woman) in a workplace, or other professional or social situation, involving the making of unwanted sexual advances or obscene remark" I'd suggest that in most cases a wolf whistle is either a sexual advance or an obscene remark. I'd also suggest that it's mostly unwanted. So how is it *not* sexual harassment?" It's a whistle That's all A sound Not "get your tits out for the lads" Clearly there is an obvious difference! | |||
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"How nieve And ridiculous I'm always flattered frankly Good for you. Many of us are not. No Oh but I bet these same women who are not, will ogle and comment on men And women that they like the look of Some of the worst offenders of verbal sexual inappropriate behaviour I've witnessed have been women Because men are too scared To do it " If it's inappropriate when women do it (and I agree, it is) then why isn't it inappropriate when men do it? I would never shout at a man in the street if I found them attractive, and I don't expect them to do it to me. Just because someone else likes it doesn't mean I have to. | |||
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" No Oh but I bet these same women who are not, will ogle and comment on men And women that they like the look of Some of the worst offenders of verbal sexual inappropriate behaviour I've witnessed have been women Because men are too scared To do it I would not personally do that and I don't believe it is right for people to do that." I don't swing either but I don't stop people who do from doing it! | |||
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"just because something makes someone feel uncomfortable, doesn't mean it's harassment or a crime Google defines sexual harassment as: "harassment (typically of a woman) in a workplace, or other professional or social situation, involving the making of unwanted sexual advances or obscene remark" I'd suggest that in most cases a wolf whistle is either a sexual advance or an obscene remark. I'd also suggest that it's mostly unwanted. So how is it *not* sexual harassment? It's a whistle That's all A sound Not "get your tits out for the lads" Clearly there is an obvious difference! " Technically 'get your tits out for the lads' is just a sound made by a voice box. But, you know. Perhaps you could also argue that harassment text messages are 'just pixels', for example? | |||
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"How nieve And ridiculous I'm always flattered frankly Good for you. Many of us are not. No Oh but I bet these same women who are not, will ogle and comment on men And women that they like the look of Some of the worst offenders of verbal sexual inappropriate behaviour I've witnessed have been women Because men are too scared To do it " So it's inappropriate when it's a wpman but flattering when it's a man? | |||
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"Ahh fuck just noticed the title and can't change it! Wouldn't worry, I started a thread, about club attire.. Told everyone I was thinking of wearing my hotpot.. Oh the joys! Pmsl" Did anyone offer to lick it all off for you? (rhetorical) | |||
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" So what do you think their desired reaction is? I'm not quite sure. Last time I was feeling ballsy and answered back 'fancy a fuck mate? right here, right now on the pavement?' the guy went bright red and didn't have much to say for himself. So how can you be at risk of physical harm if you don't know what the desired reaction is? Because women in the past have been attacked physically because they've snubbed the wolf-whistler? Really? I doubt you could cite a case And what makes you think a guy wolf whistling equates to him wanting to fuck you? Why is he whistling then? " Why does my dog chase bicycles? Get a grip girls, a whistle is nothing but appreciation or a compliment end of | |||
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"Ahh fuck just noticed the title and can't change it! Wouldn't worry, I started a thread, about club attire.. Told everyone I was thinking of wearing my hotpot.. Oh the joys! Pmsl Did anyone offer to lick it all off for you? (rhetorical) " No but a lady was extremely disappointed when we met, I wasn't donning this attire | |||
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"How nieve And ridiculous I'm always flattered frankly Good for you. Many of us are not. No Oh but I bet these same women who are not, will ogle and comment on men And women that they like the look of Some of the worst offenders of verbal sexual inappropriate behaviour I've witnessed have been women Because men are too scared To do it So it's inappropriate when it's a wpman but flattering when it's a man?" I No I'm saying women do it these days Men are told it's inappropriate I think it's fine whoever does it People will be asking for farting in public to be banned next because that's so called offensive It's all political correctness bollocks in my opinion | |||
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"just because something makes someone feel uncomfortable, doesn't mean it's harassment or a crime Google defines sexual harassment as: "harassment (typically of a woman) in a workplace, or other professional or social situation, involving the making of unwanted sexual advances or obscene remark" I'd suggest that in most cases a wolf whistle is either a sexual advance or an obscene remark. I'd also suggest that it's mostly unwanted. So how is it *not* sexual harassment?" umm no.. harassment is means by definition the use of AGGRESSIVE pressure and/or intimidation. Wolf whistling whilst crude and unimaginative isn't either of these things suggesting wolf whistling is sexual harassment is a bit of insult to those who suffer genuine sexual harassment in my opinon | |||
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" So what do you think their desired reaction is? I'm not quite sure. Last time I was feeling ballsy and answered back 'fancy a fuck mate? right here, right now on the pavement?' the guy went bright red and didn't have much to say for himself. So how can you be at risk of physical harm if you don't know what the desired reaction is? Because women in the past have been attacked physically because they've snubbed the wolf-whistler? Really? I doubt you could cite a case And what makes you think a guy wolf whistling equates to him wanting to fuck you? Why is he whistling then? Why does my dog chase bicycles? Get a grip girls, a whistle is nothing but appreciation or a compliment end of " | |||
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"Is 'fabbing a photo' a kind of virtual wolf-whistle?"
I was going to post the same thing about winking...
Which I've honestly NEVER done btw in my whole time on here. | |||
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"just because something makes someone feel uncomfortable, doesn't mean it's harassment or a crime Google defines sexual harassment as: "harassment (typically of a woman) in a workplace, or other professional or social situation, involving the making of unwanted sexual advances or obscene remark" I'd suggest that in most cases a wolf whistle is either a sexual advance or an obscene remark. I'd also suggest that it's mostly unwanted. So how is it *not* sexual harassment? umm no.. harassment is means by definition the use of AGGRESSIVE pressure and/or intimidation. Wolf whistling whilst crude and unimaginative isn't either of these things suggesting wolf whistling is sexual harassment is a bit of insult to those who suffer genuine sexual harassment in my opinon" That can't be correct. No aggression is needed for it to be harassment. So a boss making sexually inappropriate remarks to their employee wouldn't be harassment then? | |||
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" Get a grip girls, a whistle is nothing but appreciation or a compliment end of "Taken shamelessly from elsewhere: 1. It’s alienating. When a smile or nod to a stranger is again and again interpreted as an invitation for a crude remark about the tightness of your jeans, it begins to seem that even this most basic gesture of humanity isn’t extended to you. 2. It’s not actually about the person being catcalled. Many times a person is insulted within 30 seconds of being called beautiful, just because that person didn’t respond to the initial “compliment” in a way that satisfied the catcaller. 3. It’s about control. Catcalls are directives — Turn around! Come talk to me! Let me see that smile!— which assume at their most basic level an ownership of the woman being catcalled. These aren’t innocuous or playful requests; they are symptoms of entitlement, and messages that women don’t deserve control over their own bodies. 4. It’s embarrassing. I don't need to explain this one. 5. It’s dehumanizing. It is inevitable that men and women will find other men and women attractive, and often in the absence of any real interaction. What shifts a catcall from innocent and fleeting attraction to objectification in its purest form is the decision to act on it. A catcall reveals a disregard for the woman’s humanity, the possibility of her discomfort or irritation or fear, and signals that a woman is nothing more than her body or the ways in which she chooses to dress it. 6. It’s invasive. By catcalling, harassers insert themselves into the personal space of the harassed: during her commute, her daily jog, her walk to brunch. This puts unwilling women on the defensive on a daily basis, where ignoring the comments isn’t seen as an absence of a reaction but instead a transgression, or justification for more verbal assaults. 7. It’s scary. In September 2013, a 21-year-old man pulled his car up to a 14-year-old girl in Florida and offered her $200 to have sex with him. When she refused, she was grabbed, choked, tossed aside, and then run over multiple times. Luckily, she survived. This is not an isolated incident. Throughout the country women have been stabbed, shot, and sexually assaulted for ignoring catcalls with alarming regularity. 8. It’s disempowering. There’s still a good chunk of people who, unfortunately and surprisingly, don’t see the distinction between a compliment and harassment. A catcall is disempowering enough in itself — for making the person targeted feel violated, uncomfortable, or threatened — but it is doubly so when complaints about the catcall are silenced. | |||
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"Is 'fabbing a photo' a kind of virtual wolf-whistle?
I was going to post the same thing about winking...
Which I've honestly NEVER done btw in my whole time on here."me neither *cough* ...walking away whistling (not THAT kind of whistle  ) | |||
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"Is 'fabbing a photo' a kind of virtual wolf-whistle?" No it's a virtual compliment | |||
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"It's a tricky one for sure, everyone's "offence" levels are different so next to impossible to judge what's acceptable and what's not. Regarding the case in today's paper, not really a police matter, I'm pretty sure they have better things to do with their time. I believe the ladies case would have been better served by reporting it to the site manager, not the police. If she felt so intimidated that she felt it impossible to walk into the site office I'm sure there were plenty of signs up with the site phone number. In this instance, mountain molehill." No in the particular case the lady's way was also blocked by one of the workmen for a minute. That turned it into sexual harassment. The police warned the men as did the site foreman (management). With regards to wolf whistles it depends on the circumstances. In most cases it is meant as a complement and most women used to take it as such. People take things too seriously today. | |||
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"Is 'fabbing a photo' a kind of virtual wolf-whistle? No it's a virtual compliment" Not even a virtual 'phwoar'? | |||
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" this is the kind of attitude i give them, never had any issues, also laboured on a few sites, and apart from the sexist remarks about it being my job to make the tea, iv never found it anything but a good laugh. I don't find it a good laugh. I find it intimidating, stressful and upsetting. I also worked in a 'man's' career in both deep sea and warehouse logistics, and I didn't put up with 'banter' there either. must just be my sense of humour then, because i prefer working with men, than women, banter is better than the bitchyness iv had to endure in female dominated enviroments." You and me both.. much of my younger working days were spent surrounded by guys and I would get the comments if I had to much rack as they put it on display... Or get back to the kitchen comments but I just took it as it was meant... Fun banter and certainly never took offence... Had skittles once thrown down my top by one of the lads so I told him it was my turn and to turn Around and I'd aim for him... I really can't see how it is sexual harassment but then I had plenty of people in my life growing up that would tap you across your rear when saying goodbye... And yet some celebs have got into to trouble for things like that now too I prefer male dominated environments just as there is less bitching and its all harmless fun banter to me x Oh and also having spent a long time in car clubs... Well that really can do be male chauvinist heaven. So guess I learned to hold my own. | |||
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"Is 'fabbing a photo' a kind of virtual wolf-whistle?
I was going to post the same thing about winking...
Which I've honestly NEVER done btw in my whole time on here."No. Because you're not announcing to the world you've done it l, and it's not embarrassing or humiliating to receive one and have to keep on walking with your face burning, and you're not expecting a reaction from me, and I don't have to respond to it, and a photo uploaded to this site is designed to attract attention and many, many other things which make this a facetious comparison. | |||
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"Seeing the story of the young lady being harassed on her way to work for nearly a month, there was a definite line crossed from a casual wolf whistle
Agree. That is no way acceptable behaviour.
Agreed. Too much of a bad thing.
However the lady was being interviewed and she stated, that it's ok if she was on a night out with friends and a group of guy's in a pub or club to do it if the girls out for the night.
Errrr excuse me if it offensive when on way to work it should be equally as offensive as when out.
You can't pick and choose when you may deem it offensive.
Maybe the builders are an easy target?
I as a builder have bollocked many guy's for shouting at women and it is banned and a sackable offence on most site's.
Don't let a moronic minority tar us all with same brush.
I have been leared and wolf whistled by groups of women when working next to office's.
The ladies used to take their llunchtime on the grass outside to leer at us working on site nextdoor.
I was alot younger then
I agree she shouldn't be harassed but also think she can't pick and choose when it suit's her. "I think she can actually; and that's the point. Some women on here have said quite clearly that they like it, other have said equally as clearly that they don't. For some it may well be the context in which it is done. I know for myself I find some things acceptable in some circumstances that I would not find acceptable in others. I think that making all wolf whistling a crime is probably going a bit too far, however, if these men were to continue to wolf whistle this woman now, after she has made it clear that she does not want it then, in my opinion, it is definitely a form of harassment and something should be done to stop it. | |||
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My bollocks have been kicked. | |||
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"to summarise, i don't think it's a serious issue and I believe a minority of women who don't particularly like it are forcing their preferences and insecurities on to others. it is irrational to suggest that it should be illegal and in any case, it would be unenforceable and the act is a irrepressible phenomena" I don't believe it's a minority who dislike it. Just because not everyone speaks up against it doesn't mean they enjoy it. And I fail to see what insecurity has to do with it. Women disliking it are forcing their preferences onto who exactly? And the men whistling at women who dislike it aren't forcing their preference on anyone...? | |||
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"to summarise, i don't think it's a serious issue and I believe a minority of women who don't particularly like it are forcing their preferences and insecurities on to others. " I think you will find that most women do not want to be catcalled in the street - be that wolf-whistles, words, or gestures. I believe that SSH (Stop Street Harassment) did a survey on it some time ago, but I can't find the results right now. | |||
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"It's a tricky one for sure, everyone's "offence" levels are different so next to impossible to judge what's acceptable and what's not. Regarding the case in today's paper, not really a police matter, I'm pretty sure they have better things to do with their time. I believe the ladies case would have been better served by reporting it to the site manager, not the police. If she felt so intimidated that she felt it impossible to walk into the site office I'm sure there were plenty of signs up with the site phone number. In this instance, mountain molehill. ah there speaks a man who has never walked a mile in a woman's shoes
You don't know that I haven't. But for the sake of clarification, I haven't.
I'm not for one minute suggesting this was anything other than improper behavior or in any way acceptable.
Merely that by making it a police matter was making a mountain out of a molehill.
The site manager would most likely have taken a very dim view of the behaviors of his workforce.
Thankfully attitudes in the construction industry are changing, maybe not quick enough for some, but it's nothing like it was even 10 years ago.
Most building sites now participate in a considerate contractor programme which clearly display phone numbers and names for the general public to use in cases like this.
it was your mountain out of a molehill comment that prompted mine. It would be very difficult for a woman who felt demeaned and humiliated to report that to the source of the problem. It might be a molehill to you but its a mountain to her and not in my opinion of her making.
I don't think it's a problem of her making either.
I couldn't agree more that in this instance the lady was offended and uncomfortable and that's just not acceptable.
It's behavior like this that the considerate contractor programme is out there, to stop this kind of thing. If we don't use it, it will never work.
It's also anonymous, and in situations like this the workmen involved would have found themselves in deep doo doo.
Perhaps more should be done to empower women to feel comfortable in taking action to stamp this out.
We've just removed a contractor from site for something pretty similar. Skip driver tooting his horn and whistling to two women walking down the street.
And it was a man that reported him, not the women.
We're getting smarter ladies, really we are."I agree more should be done to empower women. We're getting there slowly. I still want to see you walk a mile in women's shoes though, red stilettos for choice | |||
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"to summarise, i don't think it's a serious issue and I believe a minority of women who don't particularly like it are forcing their preferences and insecurities on to others. " Thank goodness you prefaced your statements with "I think" and "I believe" | |||
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"to summarise, i don't think it's a serious issue and I believe a minority of women who don't particularly like it are forcing their preferences and insecurities on to others. it is irrational to suggest that it should be illegal and in any case, it would be unenforceable and the act is a irrepressible phenomena" I don't know about insecurities but what I can say is that most of the women on here who are putting a pretty good case across for it not being acceptable don't come across to me as insecure women, quite the opposite in fact. Whilst still not convinced yet that it should be a crime I do think that we should not dismiss the opinions of those on the receiving end of this sort of this behaviour. | |||
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"Is 'fabbing a photo' a kind of virtual wolf-whistle?" no because I am putting semi clothed pictures of myself up for all members to see, not walking to the shop to get a loaf of bread. I am asking for it of you like, when I'm tootling down the road with a shopping list under my arm I'm not. | |||
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"to summarise, i don't think it's a serious issue and I believe a minority of women who don't particularly like it are forcing their preferences and insecurities on to others. it is irrational to suggest that it should be illegal and in any case, it would be unenforceable and the act is a irrepressible phenomena I don't know about insecurities but what I can say is that most of the women on here who are putting a pretty good case across for it not being acceptable don't come across to me as insecure women, quite the opposite in fact. Whilst still not convinced yet that it should be a crime I do think that we should not dismiss the opinions of those on the receiving end of this sort of this behaviour. " agreed! I don't think it should be a crime either and I am very far from insecure...maybe spending the years from 14 to 40 having hairy arsed barbarians shouting "oi oi darling get em out for the lads" in a very complimentary fashion has been character forming | |||
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"Haven't read the whole thread but no I don't think it should be a sex crime People who invade my personal space and breath down my neck in queues creep me out more than a wolf whistle ever could" now THAT should be a fixed penalty notice on a first offence if you ask me. | |||
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"to summarise, i don't think it's a serious issue and I believe a minority of women who don't particularly like it are forcing their preferences and insecurities on to others. it is irrational to suggest that it should be illegal and in any case, it would be unenforceable and the act is a irrepressible phenomena" We all know that wolf whistles are usually accompanied by remarks, and as previously pointed out, seldom by a solitary male. More often than not the remarks are of an overt sexual nature. The notion that some solitary guy whistles to acknowledge that a woman has 'a pretty dress on' or 'looks attractively intelligent' is risible. That isn't the reality experienced by most woman | |||
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"Is 'fabbing a photo' a kind of virtual wolf-whistle? no because I am putting semi clothed pictures of myself up for all members to see, not walking to the shop to get a loaf of bread. I am asking for it of you like, when I'm tootling down the road with a shopping list under my arm I'm not." I think it's time to go and fab some of your latest pics. l-) he he | |||
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"I asked the women that work where I do. ( its a shared office) the under 30s all seemed to think it was rude.. the over 30s said it was harmless fun.. only one thought it was harassment. Ironically it was the youngest that thought it was harassment. Of course that's not a definitive answer.. but if my lady friends I've asked too... Most Saud they wished it happened more often as it made them feel good about themselves... So "Either hopefully this tells us that attitudes are changing for the better in that women are prepared to challenge once-accepted norms; or that older women feel so starved of attention they'll take a compliment anywhere they can get it even if it isn't one. I'm rooting for the first. | |||
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"Is 'fabbing a photo' a kind of virtual wolf-whistle? no because I am putting semi clothed pictures of myself up for all members to see, not walking to the shop to get a loaf of bread. I am asking for it of you like, when I'm tootling down the road with a shopping list under my arm I'm not. I think it's time to go and fab some of your latest pics. l-) he he" | |||
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"I asked the women that work where I do. ( its a shared office) the under 30s all seemed to think it was rude.. the over 30s said it was harmless fun.. only one thought it was harassment. Ironically it was the youngest that thought it was harassment. Of course that's not a definitive answer.. but if my lady friends I've asked too... Most Saud they wished it happened more often as it made them feel good about themselves... So
Either hopefully this tells us that attitudes are changing for the better in that women are prepared to challenge once-accepted norms; or that older women feel so starved of attention they'll take a compliment anywhere they can get it even if it isn't one. I'm rooting for the first. "No it simple shows the older women are more level headed than the younger ones and can determine what is a threat and what is harmless fun. Women display exactly the same behaviour when a lone man strays into their work enviroment. | |||
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"I still think if it's intended as harrassment you've already got a case you can take to the police. " Do you think the boss who sexually harasses a junior member of staff intended it as harassment or a compliment? | |||
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"I asked the women that work where I do. ( its a shared office) the under 30s all seemed to think it was rude.. the over 30s said it was harmless fun.. only one thought it was harassment. Ironically it was the youngest that thought it was harassment. Of course that's not a definitive answer.. but if my lady friends I've asked too... Most Saud they wished it happened more often as it made them feel good about themselves... So "Why's it ironic that younger people have a stronget view on this? | |||
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"I asked the women that work where I do. ( its a shared office) the under 30s all seemed to think it was rude.. the over 30s said it was harmless fun.. only one thought it was harassment. Ironically it was the youngest that thought it was harassment. Of course that's not a definitive answer.. but if my lady friends I've asked too... Most Saud they wished it happened more often as it made them feel good about themselves... So
Why's it ironic that younger people have a stronget view on this? "Maybe it's ironic because they have a better education in gender issues than the oldies? Ok, I'm clutching at straws. I can't see the irony. | |||
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"I reckon a whole less thought goes on by the whistler than by some of the whistlees. I still think if it's intended as harrassment you've already got a case you can take to the police. If it ain't intended that way I don't think it's worth too much analysis." Maybe they should think a bit then, or will that be too difficult for them. Point is you don't know how it's intended, you only know how you feel as a result of it. I don't want it to be made a crime, I just want more men to stop being dickheads and doing it (and yes that also goes for gaggles of screeching women on hen dos too). | |||
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"not at all. I find it very flattering tbh. makes me smile
Same here "Me too. Makes my day in either mode | |||
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" No, It can't be a crime unless you have asked the person to stop and they persist. " No, that's not how crime works. If someone steals my car, for example, it's still a crime even if I didn't ask them not to. | |||
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"I asked the women that work where I do. ( its a shared office) the under 30s all seemed to think it was rude.. the over 30s said it was harmless fun.. only one thought it was harassment. Ironically it was the youngest that thought it was harassment. Of course that's not a definitive answer.. but if my lady friends I've asked too... Most Saud they wished it happened more often as it made them feel good about themselves... So
Either hopefully this tells us that attitudes are changing for the better in that women are prepared to challenge once-accepted norms; or that older women feel so starved of attention they'll take a compliment anywhere they can get it even if it isn't one. I'm rooting for the first.
No it simple shows the older women are more level headed than the younger ones and can determine what is a threat and what is harmless fun.
Women display exactly the same behaviour when a lone man strays into their work enviroment."Harmless fun....until it isn't. I'm 30, I'm not a child, if being level headed means putting up with a load of shit from moronic men while walking down the street (God forbid I might wear a skirt) then I'll stay hot headed thanks very much. IF women display the same behaviour when a lone man strays into their work environment they shouldn't. | |||
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" No, It can't be a crime unless you have asked the person to stop and they persist. No, that's not how crime works. If someone steals my car, for example, it's still a crime even if I didn't ask them not to." That would be theft. Harassment is different, sorry. Similarly many of the examples about the workplace are not 'crimes'. | |||
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"I still think if it's intended as harrassment you've already got a case you can take to the police. Do you think the boss who sexually harasses a junior member of staff intended it as harassment or a compliment?" I think more details would be useful. Was the boss sitting on his lap? Or revealing herself to him? Making comments about whether he'd like a cougar? Did she give him a saucy wink when he arrived at work? or grab his crotch while he made the tea? Did she talk about good he looked in his new uniform or complement him on how he interacts with the customers? In other words I have no fucking idea. | |||
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" No, It can't be a crime unless you have asked the person to stop and they persist. No, that's not how crime works. If someone steals my car, for example, it's still a crime even if I didn't ask them not to. That would be theft. Harassment is different, sorry. Similarly many of the examples about the workplace are not 'crimes'." You said that something can't be a crime unless you ask them to stop and they persist. Which is untrue. I gave an example that countered your theory. Something can be harassment even if you don't ask them to stop. Sometimes you cannot ask them to stop for various reasons. | |||
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"No, but it does automatically make the whistler a dickhead"
Couldn't agree more, I don't think it should be a crime at the end of the day it is a compliment even if its an unwelcome compliment, it is rather a child thing to do though and hardly going to make most women ask them out | |||
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"I don't know what Ealing film world some people inhabit, but how many experience a wolf whistle from a solitary guy, unaccompanied by remarks of sexual nature?" I don't know, but I'd like to live there | |||
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" No, It can't be a crime unless you have asked the person to stop and they persist. No, that's not how crime works. If someone steals my car, for example, it's still a crime even if I didn't ask them not to. That would be theft. Harassment is different, sorry. Similarly many of the examples about the workplace are not 'crimes'. You said that something can't be a crime unless you ask them to stop and they persist. Which is untrue. I gave an example that countered your theory. Something can be harassment even if you don't ask them to stop. Sometimes you cannot ask them to stop for various reasons." By 'it' I was referring to the thread title, 'wolf-whistling', the only potential charge could be Harassment, which does, I believe, require the complainant to demonstrate that the offender persisted after being asked to stop. I don't write the laws, I just offer my interpretation. I think the logic is thus: We all know it is wrong to steal we all know it is wrong to kill. But we feel that if society tells young men that casual sexism is acceptable in certain circumstances, the man on the clapham omnibus would be unlikely to convict simply because he was unlucky enough to get it wrong. | |||
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" By 'it' I was referring to the thread title, 'wolf-whistling', the only potential charge could be Harassment, which does, I believe, require the complainant to demonstrate that the offender persisted after being asked to stop. I don't write the laws, I just offer my interpretation." When I asked the police what I should do about my ex sending me letters in the post and facebook messages, I was told simply to ignore him and if it got too much we could look at harassment charges. I was never once instructed to ask him not to send me correspondence. So I believe that no, you don't have to ask someone to stop for it to be harassment. | |||
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"I don't know what Ealing film world some people inhabit, but how many experience a wolf whistle from a solitary guy, unaccompanied by remarks of sexual nature? I don't know, but I'd like to live there "Oh it's lovely, guys compliment you on your hair catching the light of the early morning sun as you trip lightly pass the scaffolding, or enquire as to the possibility of sharing an ice cream soda later that evening, and hopefully walk you back to your parents house. It's really, really awfully nice | |||
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" "I don't know what Ealing film world some people inhabit, but how many experience a wolf whistle from a solitary guy, unaccompanied by remarks of sexual nature? I don't know, but I'd like to live there " Oh it's lovely, guys compliment you on your hair catching the light of the early morning sun as you trip lightly pass the scaffolding, or enquire as to the possibility of sharing an ice cream soda later that evening, and hopefully walk you back to your parents house. It's really, really awfully nice " | |||
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"Would this be a bad time to get back to sheep jokes" No, no-one wool appreciate ewe lambasting them with sheep-based puns now  | |||
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