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Terrorist Attacks
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Instead of MI5 having them under surveillance they should arrest and deport known terrorists and people involved in plots. They know who they are they just don't act on the info till its too late  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Instead of MI5 having them under surveillance they should arrest and deport known terrorists and people involved in plots. They know who they are they just don't act on the info till its too late "
Under surveillance means just that. It does not mean guilty. Unless you like the idea of a police state. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Instead of MI5 having them under surveillance they should arrest and deport known terrorists and people involved in plots. They know who they are they just don't act on the info till its too late "
Where do you deport British born people to? |
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They can't really...
Unless we somehow manage to do a Bourne Identity-type thing (am I thinking of the right movie?) and predict the future.
Anyone can be a terrorist and you're not going to be able to see everyone coming. |
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By *icky999Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"Instead of MI5 having them under surveillance they should arrest and deport known terrorists and people involved in plots. They know who they are they just don't act on the info till its too late
Where do you deport British born people to?"
ira to ireland. Islamists to isis  |
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"How can terrorist attacks be prevented in the future? "
Stop fucking up the world and learn to appreciate each other, that goes to the west as much as the east. know every action and benefit you take for granted has a humna cost and ask yourself why you involve yourself in material goods, exploiting weaker nations... maybe then you would have less resentment for each other. |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
Nearly 200,000 people are killed or injured in the UK in road accidents each year. Much more worried about that as a threat to personal safety, really.
Terrorist attacks are nothing to worry about at all. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Instead of MI5 having them under surveillance they should arrest and deport known terrorists and people involved in plots. They know who they are they just don't act on the info till its too late
Where do you deport British born people to?
ira to ireland. Islamists to isis "
I'm not an I.R.A. sympathiser.
What's an Islamist? |
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By *icky999Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"Instead of MI5 having them under surveillance they should arrest and deport known terrorists and people involved in plots. They know who they are they just don't act on the info till its too late
Where do you deport British born people to?
ira to ireland. Islamists to isis
I'm not an I.R.A. sympathiser.
What's an Islamist?"
bully for you.
google it.
Trolls back under there bridge. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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More cyclists and pedestrians have been killed in London in road traffic accidents in the last 3 1/2 months than have been killed by terroris in all of Europe in the last 3 1/2 years. I think the perception of the risk of terror attacks is massively skewed by media and political bias |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Instead of MI5 having them under surveillance they should arrest and deport known terrorists and people involved in plots. They know who they are they just don't act on the info till its too late
Where do you deport British born people to?
ira to ireland. Islamists to isis "
Where should Norway deport Anders Breivik to? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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You can never eliminate the threat of a terrorist attack, likewise you'll never eliminate the likelihood of a lightning strike.
All you can do is to minimise the risk of either event, and the potential damage caused |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Instead of MI5 having them under surveillance they should arrest and deport known terrorists and people involved in plots. They know who they are they just don't act on the info till its too late
Where do you deport British born people to?
ira to ireland. Islamists to isis "
So you propose that British born IRA criminals are forcibly sent to Ireland? Would Ireland have any say in whether they wanted to receive foreign born criminals in their midst? As for British born IS supporters - exactly where do we deport these people to? Iraq and Syria are not wanting any more foreign born criminals on their land - they have enough already. |
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As a country, we do prevent them now - it just not publicised. Whilst we see some news stories, not all make it into the public domain, so there is a lot of work that goes on that we do not know about.
Part of this is a debate around privacy and how much access the likes of GCHQ should have to data that will identify potential terrorist activity. They can do a lot with the right information, but as soon as they use it, people jump up and down about privacy being invaded. The landscape has changed, technology and communication are a fundamental part of the planning and preparation of any activity. If you are innocently going about your daily life, the security services have no interest in you, they barely have sufficient resources to watch the people they are interested in. More of the public need to have the fear removed about what allowing the security services access to certain data, actually means.  |
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By *fcdTV/TS
over a year ago
Southend |
Watch "The Power of Nightmares". it's a few years old now (available online, various places) but very good. It is in government's interests that we are scared of terrorism. Apart from what gets covered in this documentary, it's also allowed them unprecedented powers to snoop into our lives to a degree most people are completely unaware of.
As others have noted, the risk is currently very, very small compared to the coverage it gets. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Sorry maybe I should of made the deport bit clearer, by that I meant known terrorists who have been to a training camp in Syria or another similar country should be sent back to there last known country of residence. Anyone born in U.k. should be jailed in U.k. jails. In the Ira's time they were hunted down by the Sas but you don't seem to get that nowadays for some reason. My initial post did state KNOWN terrorists, also people who participate in the training should be jailed only when proven guilty. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Instead of MI5 having them under surveillance they should arrest and deport known terrorists and people involved in plots. They know who they are they just don't act on the info till its too late
Where do you deport British born people to?
ira to ireland. Islamists to isis
I'm not an I.R.A. sympathiser.
What's an Islamist?
bully for you.
google it.
Trolls back under there bridge. "
wow you seem to have all the answers and speaking of trolls .......... |
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"How can terrorist attacks be prevented in the future? What are your views OP?
No idea that's why I'm asking "
Very odd to start a thread when you have no opinion on the matter to be discussed. Why not post something you have an opinion on instead. |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Watch "The Power of Nightmares". it's a few years old now (available online, various places) but very good. It is in government's interests that we are scared of terrorism. Apart from what gets covered in this documentary, it's also allowed them unprecedented powers to snoop into our lives to a degree most people are completely unaware of.
As others have noted, the risk is currently very, very small compared to the coverage it gets."
And only two posts up from yours we have a classic example of the 'if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to fear' nonsense that gets trotted out whenever people observe that we are losing our privacy on a daily basis. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"Instead of MI5 having them under surveillance they should arrest and deport known terrorists and people involved in plots. They know who they are they just don't act on the info till its too late
Where do you deport British born people to?
ira to ireland. Islamists to isis
I'm not an I.R.A. sympathiser.
What's an Islamist?
bully for you.
google it.
Trolls back under there bridge. "
There is no need for that.
While I am here, can people please stop accusing others of being trolls just because they may not agree with you, as it starts mayhem.
Thanks |
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"How can terrorist attacks be prevented in the future? What are your views OP?
No idea that's why I'm asking
Very odd to start a thread when you have no opinion on the matter to be discussed. Why not post something you have an opinion on instead. "
Why odd? I find it commendable that somebody wants to canvas varying opinion, possibly educate themselves and start discussion around a subject. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Instead of MI5 having them under surveillance they should arrest and deport known terrorists and people involved in plots. They know who they are they just don't act on the info till its too late
Where do you deport British born people to?
ira to ireland. Islamists to isis ignore him ruby I've already had to block and reporting seems guy dosent like the word no and very aggressive with his messages
I'm not an I.R.A. sympathiser.
What's an Islamist?
bully for you.
google it.
Trolls back under there bridge.
There is no need for that.
While I am here, can people please stop accusing others of being trolls just because they may not agree with you, as it starts mayhem.
Thanks "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Instead of MI5 having them under surveillance they should arrest and deport known terrorists and people involved in plots. They know who they are they just don't act on the info till its too late
Where do you deport British born people to?
ira to ireland. Islamists to isis
I'm not an I.R.A. sympathiser.
What's an Islamist?
bully for you.
google it.
Trolls back under there bridge. "
There's this bloke, and he's Irish and he's Jewish and he's Pakistani and he's stupid and he's lost his teeth and all his hair fell out and his legs fell off and his cock got sliced off by a lawn mower and he said "I'm not feeling too well" and this Islamist came round and said "If you're not feeling too well you should see how I'm feeling"
Ooooooh Alfie Noakes
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Instead of MI5 having them under surveillance they should arrest and deport known terrorists and people involved in plots. They know who they are they just don't act on the info till its too late
Where do you deport British born people to?
ira to ireland. Islamists to isis "
Most members of the ira will be from NI. Eire has no legal obligation to take British terrorists. The members of the ira may WANT to be Irish citizens, but it doesn't mean they are. And if I was from Eire, I wouldn't want them either. |
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"Watch "The Power of Nightmares". it's a few years old now (available online, various places) but very good. It is in government's interests that we are scared of terrorism. Apart from what gets covered in this documentary, it's also allowed them unprecedented powers to snoop into our lives to a degree most people are completely unaware of.
As others have noted, the risk is currently very, very small compared to the coverage it gets.
And only two posts up from yours we have a classic example of the 'if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to fear' nonsense that gets trotted out whenever people observe that we are losing our privacy on a daily basis."
It is a classic isn't it Interested to know though if they stopped analysing comms and we got attacked and you lost a loved one, would you feel violated then? And, what impact has your perceived loss of privacy had on you directly? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Watch "The Power of Nightmares". it's a few years old now (available online, various places) but very good. It is in government's interests that we are scared of terrorism. Apart from what gets covered in this documentary, it's also allowed them unprecedented powers to snoop into our lives to a degree most people are completely unaware of.
As others have noted, the risk is currently very, very small compared to the coverage it gets.
And only two posts up from yours we have a classic example of the 'if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to fear' nonsense that gets trotted out whenever people observe that we are losing our privacy on a daily basis."
There is a pilot scheme where people who owe the government money through TV licence or council tax arrears have been stopped at airports and stopped from flying unless they settle the debts
And the information sharing legislation was passed in the name of anti-terrorism |
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By *icky999Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"Instead of MI5 having them under surveillance they should arrest and deport known terrorists and people involved in plots. They know who they are they just don't act on the info till its too late
Where do you deport British born people to?
ira to ireland. Islamists to isis
So you propose that British born IRA criminals are forcibly sent to Ireland? Would Ireland have any say in whether they wanted to receive foreign born criminals in their midst? As for British born IS supporters - exactly where do we deport these people to? Iraq and Syria are not wanting any more foreign born criminals on their land - they have enough already."
I didnt proposed anything did I? If you are deporting someone who supports a foreign nation, thats where they should go. Stick them on a babana boat and if there not excepted tuff shit. Isis are welcoming peolle with open arms. |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Watch "The Power of Nightmares". it's a few years old now (available online, various places) but very good. It is in government's interests that we are scared of terrorism. Apart from what gets covered in this documentary, it's also allowed them unprecedented powers to snoop into our lives to a degree most people are completely unaware of.
As others have noted, the risk is currently very, very small compared to the coverage it gets.
And only two posts up from yours we have a classic example of the 'if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to fear' nonsense that gets trotted out whenever people observe that we are losing our privacy on a daily basis.
It is a classic isn't it Interested to know though if they stopped analysing comms and we got attacked and you lost a loved one, would you feel violated then? And, what impact has your perceived loss of privacy had on you directly?"
I haven't though. So your argument is moot.
And it's fallacious of course, because 'what if the worst thing that could happen to you happened' is about making decisions based on emotion rather than intellect, which neatly illustrates why the argument is poor to begin with. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"How can terrorist attacks be prevented in the future? What are your views OP?
No idea that's why I'm asking
Very odd to start a thread when you have no opinion on the matter to be discussed. Why not post something you have an opinion on instead. "
Odd, maybe. i do have an opinion. My opinion is although it seems it can't be stopped, I wish it could be stopped. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"How can terrorist attacks be prevented in the future? What are your views OP?
No idea that's why I'm asking
Very odd to start a thread when you have no opinion on the matter to be discussed. Why not post something you have an opinion on instead.
Why odd? I find it commendable that somebody wants to canvas varying opinion, possibly educate themselves and start discussion around a subject."
|
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"Watch "The Power of Nightmares". it's a few years old now (available online, various places) but very good. It is in government's interests that we are scared of terrorism. Apart from what gets covered in this documentary, it's also allowed them unprecedented powers to snoop into our lives to a degree most people are completely unaware of.
As others have noted, the risk is currently very, very small compared to the coverage it gets.
And only two posts up from yours we have a classic example of the 'if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to fear' nonsense that gets trotted out whenever people observe that we are losing our privacy on a daily basis.
There is a pilot scheme where people who owe the government money through TV licence or council tax arrears have been stopped at airports and stopped from flying unless they settle the debts
And the information sharing legislation was passed in the name of anti-terrorism"
True but this is only for people who have continually refused to pay and therefore a warrant has been issued to collect the fines. As the classic statement says, if you have done nothing wrong….. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Watch "The Power of Nightmares". it's a few years old now (available online, various places) but very good. It is in government's interests that we are scared of terrorism. Apart from what gets covered in this documentary, it's also allowed them unprecedented powers to snoop into our lives to a degree most people are completely unaware of.
As others have noted, the risk is currently very, very small compared to the coverage it gets.
And only two posts up from yours we have a classic example of the 'if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to fear' nonsense that gets trotted out whenever people observe that we are losing our privacy on a daily basis.
There is a pilot scheme where people who owe the government money through TV licence or council tax arrears have been stopped at airports and stopped from flying unless they settle the debts
And the information sharing legislation was passed in the name of anti-terrorism
True but this is only for people who have continually refused to pay and therefore a warrant has been issued to collect the fines. As the classic statement says, if you have done nothing wrong….."
The laws that enable this to happen are amti-terrorism laws. Do you not think that this is a massive abuse of what the legislation was passed for? |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
If you've done nothing wrong, you've nothing to fear - as long as the parameters of what is considered wrong stay within those you find acceptable, for the rest of your life.
To put it in simple terms, someone using Fab who is happy for the government to snoop on all of their communications for the rest of their life is also saying that they are happy for every aspect of their life to be open to public scrutiny, always, by anyone.
On that basis, one wonders why they don't use their real name and face pic publicly on here.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The security services are dammed if they do at and dammed if they don't on this. They have to jump through all the hoops to remain within the law the terrorist doesn't so they always have the advantage.
There's no easy answer to this one?? |
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"The security services are dammed if they do at and dammed if they don't on this."
If there is no terrorist attack then they're accused of snooping too much and overstepping.
Yet if there is a terrorist attack they are accused of not doing enough or acting quickly enough.
It's sod's law. |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
The security services don't currently operate within the law.
This is why the government is seeking to amend the law, so that the illegal data collection and monitoring without official oversight they have been doing for ages is legal, rather than illegal, as it currently is. |
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"The security services don't currently operate within the law.
This is why the government is seeking to amend the law, so that the illegal data collection and monitoring without official oversight they have been doing for ages is legal, rather than illegal, as it currently is."
Is the purpose to sanction the bad practice or to correct it? |
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"How can terrorist attacks be prevented in the future?
Stop fucking up the world and learn to appreciate each other, that goes to the west as much as the east. know every action and benefit you take for granted has a humna cost and ask yourself why you involve yourself in material goods, exploiting weaker nations... maybe then you would have less resentment for each other."
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"To sanction it, of course. No government ever wants less control over their citizens' communications."
I haven't paid much attention to what's been happening with it.
What bothers me more are the secret courts.
The snooping I can accept if justified - when the application of the law is transparent. If you have to make people's personal details anonymous, at least the public could judge proportionality and fairness on the merits of the cases. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"
I didnt proposed anything did I? If you are deporting someone who supports a foreign nation, thats where they should go. Stick them on a babana boat and if there not excepted tuff shit. Isis are welcoming peolle with open arms. "
It is nice that you think that the UK is the Policeman, Judge and Executioner for the planet. Unfortunately, you have to remember that the country that you might want to send the criminals to.. They probably dont want those people either.
Islamic State is an illegal occupation of two Sovereign country's - Iraq and Syria. The governments of those nations absolutely do not want any more foreign criminals on their land. That only adds to the problems that they already have.
If you had a white supremicist who was a follower of the KKK - do you not think that America might object to him being deported to America - just because that is what the criminal supports? It is no different to Iraq and Syria unless yoe see the people of Iraq and Syria as "lesser people." |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If we are modern society and want our security services to be regulated and operate with in the law. We have to accept that they are going to be on the back foot when the terrorists don't have those restrictions.
If we want freedom from intrusion on our personal information, email, movements and liberty the price may be that some attacks will get through. You can't blame them if it does because they can't be everywhere. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The word "terrorism" by it's very nature implies an incredibly rare random act of extreme violence! If they become normalized they cease to become acts of terror! It's still the case that we're more likely to be bitten by a snake than harmed by such an attack!
Nobody would argue that we shouldn't give the government the necessary powers to investigate and try to prevent these atrocities, but surely this community more than any other would fundamentally agree that individual privacy must be respected! The police, the government, the secret services and the courts already have fairly wide ranging powers they can and do use, if you read the various laws we have (which I have!), so I for one am happy to live in a free society and take my chances with the snakes! Rant over |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Don't know how terrorism can be stopped. We don't even have an army anymore we have a security force, we don't have enough full time soldiers to be called an army.
All we can do is be vigilant and carry on our everyday lives because if we live in fear that means they win as well. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Instead of MI5 having them under surveillance they should arrest and deport known terrorists and people involved in plots. They know who they are they just don't act on the info till its too late
Where do you deport British born people to?
ira to ireland. Islamists to isis
So you propose that British born IRA criminals are forcibly sent to Ireland? Would Ireland have any say in whether they wanted to receive foreign born criminals in their midst? As for British born IS supporters - exactly where do we deport these people to? Iraq and Syria are not wanting any more foreign born criminals on their land - they have enough already.
I didnt proposed anything did I? If you are deporting someone who supports a foreign nation, thats where they should go. Stick them on a babana boat and if there not excepted tuff shit. Isis are welcoming peolle with open arms. "
And what of the ira? How do you propose we keep them in Eire? You don't need a passport from Eire to the UK. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"
As others have noted, the risk is currently very, very small compared to the coverage it gets."
For millions of people across the Middle East and north Africa the terrorist threat is very much larger than life. Here in cozy, complacent Britain we have been sheltered from the true horrors of mass murder and genocide since 1945.
To think that the risk of those horrors not coming to our shores ever again is a dangerous path to walk. |
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By *icky999Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"
I didnt proposed anything did I? If you are deporting someone who supports a foreign nation, thats where they should go. Stick them on a babana boat and if there not excepted tuff shit. Isis are welcoming peolle with open arms.
It is nice that you think that the UK is the Policeman, Judge and Executioner for the planet. Unfortunately, you have to remember that the country that you might want to send the criminals to.. They probably dont want those people either.
Islamic State is an illegal occupation of two Sovereign country's - Iraq and Syria. The governments of those nations absolutely do not want any more foreign criminals on their land. That only adds to the problems that they already have.
If you had a white supremicist who was a follower of the KKK - do you not think that America might object to him being deported to America - just because that is what the criminal supports? It is no different to Iraq and Syria unless yoe see the people of Iraq and Syria as "lesser people.""
if it didnt go into your brain the first two timesive explained theres no point a third is there. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Even with out religion we are still going to fight it's human nature, it would take something from another planet to unite the world as it means we would all have a common enemy |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Even with out religion we are still going to fight it's human nature, it would take something from another planet to unite the world as it means we would all have a common enemy "
We do have a common enemy. Disease, famine, pollution. But nobody gets rich battling those. |
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"Watch "The Power of Nightmares". it's a few years old now (available online, various places) but very good. It is in government's interests that we are scared of terrorism. Apart from what gets covered in this documentary, it's also allowed them unprecedented powers to snoop into our lives to a degree most people are completely unaware of.
As others have noted, the risk is currently very, very small compared to the coverage it gets.
And only two posts up from yours we have a classic example of the 'if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to fear' nonsense that gets trotted out whenever people observe that we are losing our privacy on a daily basis.
There is a pilot scheme where people who owe the government money through TV licence or council tax arrears have been stopped at airports and stopped from flying unless they settle the debts
And the information sharing legislation was passed in the name of anti-terrorism
True but this is only for people who have continually refused to pay and therefore a warrant has been issued to collect the fines. As the classic statement says, if you have done nothing wrong…..
The laws that enable this to happen are amti-terrorism laws. Do you not think that this is a massive abuse of what the legislation was passed for?"
I admit the scope of the legislation has been stretched in these cases, but what about a burglar or rapist? If one of these had a warrant outstanding and you were the visit, how would you feel if you found out that person had travelled abroad, gone through UK security and wasn't challenged because the legislation that would support his interception wasn't intended for that purpose?
Yes the two examples are poles apart, but the theory is the same, none of the offences would be in line of the purpose of the legislation. We can't have everything the way we want it, and then criticise the authorities when things go tits up.
If you read the Intelligence and Security Committee Reports into the 7/7 attacks, you will see that the security had woefully inadequate resources to monitor the targets they were interested in, so for those who think they would be intrusive to a 'Regular Joe' on the street with whom they have no interest is completely misguided. |
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"How can terrorist attacks be prevented in the future? What are your views OP?
No idea that's why I'm asking
Very odd to start a thread when you have no opinion on the matter to be discussed. Why not post something you have an opinion on instead.
Odd, maybe. i do have an opinion. My opinion is although it seems it can't be stopped, I wish it could be stopped. "
Ah you have an opinion, that's good then, but contradicts your earlier post.
If someone is prepared to die for their beliefs, then no one can stop that. Think Emily Davison, Nelson Mandella, Stalin, the French Republic, Arthur Harris, Pol Pot need I go on.
The statement "one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist" is complex and is the cause of many arguments.
Terrorism by default includes the use of terror to reshape a society and its way of life. There are no limits to what will be done in the name of the cause by an individual or State in seeking to further its aims. It proponents will blame their opponent for a raft of ills to make the case to use terror. Members will seek friendship, a sense of belonging, common cause and a desire to right the wrongs that caused the ills.
A freedom fighter is defined by name, in his or her pursuit of the course of liberty and freedom. They will target the state and its entities, i.e. military, courts, police. Terrorists will make no such distinction between the state & civilians. The more civilians perceive their way of life is under attack, the greater the pressure to "do something" becomes.
At different times in history, freedom fighters have been viewed as terrorists, maybe some will never shake that moniker despite their initial birth. Terrorists, with the exception of the French State, generally lose.
Unless you want total isolation and all that entails, then history proves, terrorism / freedom fighters are a fact of life. We have to live with it. You have more chance of a shag today than being killed by a terrorist.
History is always written by the victors. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Instead of MI5 having them under surveillance they should arrest and deport known terrorists and people involved in plots. They know who they are they just don't act on the info till its too late
Where do you deport British born people to?
ira to ireland. Islamists to isis "
She said the British born terrorists which also includes white British born people, you know Christians and people of other religions? Plus atheists? And where shall we deport the government to? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The media plays a huge part. It gives the terrorists the coverage that they want and crave. It will never happen, but there should be zero press coverage for these events.
It will never end but lack of coverage could bring the risk of attacks down. |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Watch "The Power of Nightmares". it's a few years old now (available online, various places) but very good. It is in government's interests that we are scared of terrorism. Apart from what gets covered in this documentary, it's also allowed them unprecedented powers to snoop into our lives to a degree most people are completely unaware of.
As others have noted, the risk is currently very, very small compared to the coverage it gets.
And only two posts up from yours we have a classic example of the 'if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to fear' nonsense that gets trotted out whenever people observe that we are losing our privacy on a daily basis.
There is a pilot scheme where people who owe the government money through TV licence or council tax arrears have been stopped at airports and stopped from flying unless they settle the debts
And the information sharing legislation was passed in the name of anti-terrorism
True but this is only for people who have continually refused to pay and therefore a warrant has been issued to collect the fines. As the classic statement says, if you have done nothing wrong…..
The laws that enable this to happen are amti-terrorism laws. Do you not think that this is a massive abuse of what the legislation was passed for?
I admit the scope of the legislation has been stretched in these cases, but what about a burglar or rapist? If one of these had a warrant outstanding and you were the visit, how would you feel if you found out that person had travelled abroad, gone through UK security and wasn't challenged because the legislation that would support his interception wasn't intended for that purpose?
Yes the two examples are poles apart, but the theory is the same, none of the offences would be in line of the purpose of the legislation. We can't have everything the way we want it, and then criticise the authorities when things go tits up.
If you read the Intelligence and Security Committee Reports into the 7/7 attacks, you will see that the security had woefully inadequate resources to monitor the targets they were interested in, so for those who think they would be intrusive to a 'Regular Joe' on the street with whom they have no interest is completely misguided."
Remind us why you don't have your name and face pic up on Fab, would you? |
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"Watch "The Power of Nightmares". it's a few years old now (available online, various places) but very good. It is in government's interests that we are scared of terrorism. Apart from what gets covered in this documentary, it's also allowed them unprecedented powers to snoop into our lives to a degree most people are completely unaware of.
As others have noted, the risk is currently very, very small compared to the coverage it gets.
And only two posts up from yours we have a classic example of the 'if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to fear' nonsense that gets trotted out whenever people observe that we are losing our privacy on a daily basis.
There is a pilot scheme where people who owe the government money through TV licence or council tax arrears have been stopped at airports and stopped from flying unless they settle the debts
And the information sharing legislation was passed in the name of anti-terrorism
True but this is only for people who have continually refused to pay and therefore a warrant has been issued to collect the fines. As the classic statement says, if you have done nothing wrong…..
The laws that enable this to happen are amti-terrorism laws. Do you not think that this is a massive abuse of what the legislation was passed for?
I admit the scope of the legislation has been stretched in these cases, but what about a burglar or rapist? If one of these had a warrant outstanding and you were the visit, how would you feel if you found out that person had travelled abroad, gone through UK security and wasn't challenged because the legislation that would support his interception wasn't intended for that purpose?
Yes the two examples are poles apart, but the theory is the same, none of the offences would be in line of the purpose of the legislation. We can't have everything the way we want it, and then criticise the authorities when things go tits up.
If you read the Intelligence and Security Committee Reports into the 7/7 attacks, you will see that the security had woefully inadequate resources to monitor the targets they were interested in, so for those who think they would be intrusive to a 'Regular Joe' on the street with whom they have no interest is completely misguided.
Remind us why you don't have your name and face pic up on Fab, would you?"
Personal choice, not paranoia |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Watch "The Power of Nightmares". it's a few years old now (available online, various places) but very good. It is in government's interests that we are scared of terrorism. Apart from what gets covered in this documentary, it's also allowed them unprecedented powers to snoop into our lives to a degree most people are completely unaware of.
As others have noted, the risk is currently very, very small compared to the coverage it gets.
And only two posts up from yours we have a classic example of the 'if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to fear' nonsense that gets trotted out whenever people observe that we are losing our privacy on a daily basis.
There is a pilot scheme where people who owe the government money through TV licence or council tax arrears have been stopped at airports and stopped from flying unless they settle the debts
And the information sharing legislation was passed in the name of anti-terrorism
True but this is only for people who have continually refused to pay and therefore a warrant has been issued to collect the fines. As the classic statement says, if you have done nothing wrong…..
The laws that enable this to happen are amti-terrorism laws. Do you not think that this is a massive abuse of what the legislation was passed for?
I admit the scope of the legislation has been stretched in these cases, but what about a burglar or rapist? If one of these had a warrant outstanding and you were the visit, how would you feel if you found out that person had travelled abroad, gone through UK security and wasn't challenged because the legislation that would support his interception wasn't intended for that purpose?
Yes the two examples are poles apart, but the theory is the same, none of the offences would be in line of the purpose of the legislation. We can't have everything the way we want it, and then criticise the authorities when things go tits up.
If you read the Intelligence and Security Committee Reports into the 7/7 attacks, you will see that the security had woefully inadequate resources to monitor the targets they were interested in, so for those who think they would be intrusive to a 'Regular Joe' on the street with whom they have no interest is completely misguided."
I take it that your happy to have your phone tapped, mail steamed open and listening devices planted in lampposts? (Gordon Brown was all for the latter). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Watch "The Power of Nightmares". it's a few years old now (available online, various places) but very good. It is in government's interests that we are scared of terrorism. Apart from what gets covered in this documentary, it's also allowed them unprecedented powers to snoop into our lives to a degree most people are completely unaware of.
As others have noted, the risk is currently very, very small compared to the coverage it gets.
And only two posts up from yours we have a classic example of the 'if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to fear' nonsense that gets trotted out whenever people observe that we are losing our privacy on a daily basis.
There is a pilot scheme where people who owe the government money through TV licence or council tax arrears have been stopped at airports and stopped from flying unless they settle the debts
And the information sharing legislation was passed in the name of anti-terrorism
True but this is only for people who have continually refused to pay and therefore a warrant has been issued to collect the fines. As the classic statement says, if you have done nothing wrong…..
The laws that enable this to happen are amti-terrorism laws. Do you not think that this is a massive abuse of what the legislation was passed for?
I admit the scope of the legislation has been stretched in these cases, but what about a burglar or rapist? If one of these had a warrant outstanding and you were the visit, how would you feel if you found out that person had travelled abroad, gone through UK security and wasn't challenged because the legislation that would support his interception wasn't intended for that purpose?
Yes the two examples are poles apart, but the theory is the same, none of the offences would be in line of the purpose of the legislation. We can't have everything the way we want it, and then criticise the authorities when things go tits up.
If you read the Intelligence and Security Committee Reports into the 7/7 attacks, you will see that the security had woefully inadequate resources to monitor the targets they were interested in, so for those who think they would be intrusive to a 'Regular Joe' on the street with whom they have no interest is completely misguided."
Thirty odd years ago, you would have sneered at the idea as "communism by the back door". |
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"So privacy as a personal choice is okay for you, but not for everyone else? Got it."
No, you haven't got it - regardless of what name I use on here, it could still be fake, privacy doesn't come from what I post, privacy comes what is being snooped on, so the device ID I use, the network I communicate on, the IP address - everything is a footprint - a username on its own won't link anything back to me, so whether I use my own name is irrelevant, thats why I choose to use something else.
The choice I have made, is not to get hung up on what the security services can see or do, because my everyday life in of no interest to them, just like the majority of the population. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So privacy as a personal choice is okay for you, but not for everyone else? Got it.
No, you haven't got it - regardless of what name I use on here, it could still be fake, privacy doesn't come from what I post, privacy comes what is being snooped on, so the device ID I use, the network I communicate on, the IP address - everything is a footprint - a username on its own won't link anything back to me, so whether I use my own name is irrelevant, thats why I choose to use something else.
The choice I have made, is not to get hung up on what the security services can see or do, because my everyday life in of no interest to them, just like the majority of the population."
You might believe that. A LOT of us don't. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If we are modern society and want our security services to be regulated and operate with in the law. We have to accept that they are going to be on the back foot when the terrorists don't have those restrictions.
If we want freedom from intrusion on our personal information, email, movements and liberty the price may be that some attacks will get through. You can't blame them if it does because they can't be everywhere. "
They are already operating outside of the law (especially uncle Sam), so by widening what is allowed, we then stop their activities being illegal? That's so fucked up! Murder us illegal, make it legal and cut the crime figures?
They have proven to be untrustworthy, so by giving them extra powers, do you not think they will just push things even further? |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"So privacy as a personal choice is okay for you, but not for everyone else? Got it.
No, you haven't got it - regardless of what name I use on here, it could still be fake, privacy doesn't come from what I post, privacy comes what is being snooped on, so the device ID I use, the network I communicate on, the IP address - everything is a footprint - a username on its own won't link anything back to me, so whether I use my own name is irrelevant, thats why I choose to use something else.
The choice I have made, is not to get hung up on what the security services can see or do, because my everyday life in of no interest to them, just like the majority of the population."
No, you haven't got it.
You blithely assume that you are of no interest to the security services, because you think that they are some hard pressed James Bonds individually reading communications and then running around trying to stop bombs going off like they are in an episode of 24.
The reality is that the 'security services' who access this stuff are bored IT geeks who have access to every single item of data transmitted in and out of this country, and around the world. Everything is currently collected. When the technological ability exists, everything will be examined. No permissions are required, no proof of interest is needed, it is just taken.
If you don't get hung up about it, good for you, but that doesn't mean the rest of us are happy for a bunch of unmonitored civil servants to have illegal access to the entirety of our personal electronic data and communications simply because you are too busy tugging your forelock to see that you are no longer a private citizen.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So privacy as a personal choice is okay for you, but not for everyone else? Got it.
No, you haven't got it - regardless of what name I use on here, it could still be fake, privacy doesn't come from what I post, privacy comes what is being snooped on, so the device ID I use, the network I communicate on, the IP address - everything is a footprint - a username on its own won't link anything back to me, so whether I use my own name is irrelevant, thats why I choose to use something else.
The choice I have made, is not to get hung up on what the security services can see or do, because my everyday life in of no interest to them, just like the majority of the population.
No, you haven't got it.
You blithely assume that you are of no interest to the security services, because you think that they are some hard pressed James Bonds individually reading communications and then running around trying to stop bombs going off like they are in an episode of 24.
The reality is that the 'security services' who access this stuff are bored IT geeks who have access to every single item of data transmitted in and out of this country, and around the world. Everything is currently collected. When the technological ability exists, everything will be examined. No permissions are required, no proof of interest is needed, it is just taken.
If you don't get hung up about it, good for you, but that doesn't mean the rest of us are happy for a bunch of unmonitored civil servants to have illegal access to the entirety of our personal electronic data and communications simply because you are too busy tugging your forelock to see that you are no longer a private citizen.
"
I'll give you 3/4 odds on that " he hasn't done anything wrong so he's not worried". |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The investigative powers of gchq will end up being shared by all givt departments. HMRC and the DWP being the two biggest culprits. At the moment, they can't access your bank account details without your permission. How long before that's eroded? Then they will start to take money from you when they feel you owe them,(and we all know how accurate they are, never make mistakes). Everyone gets paid straight into a bank account now. You have no choice, Thatcher saw to that. They've stitched us up Luke a kipper. |
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