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Education is...
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
a wonderful thing.
But what should it include? Some might say we need to ensure our youngsters really do understand Maths, English and Science while others argue it should include focus on other skills including the more practical ones such as being able to cook a meal from scratch. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"a wonderful thing.
But what should it include? Some might say we need to ensure our youngsters really do understand Maths, English and Science while others argue it should include focus on other skills including the more practical ones such as being able to cook a meal from scratch. "
I had all of those things at school, along with a solid foundation in arts and physical education. Do we have to choose? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Last 2 generations have a very different approach. All convenience foods. Take aways and vocational studies rather than professional qualifications. I think it all boils down to money. Student fees are horrendous. They can earn and learn now in a job but not train to a professional standard. I agree life skills are definately needed to be taught. |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"a wonderful thing.
But what should it include? Some might say we need to ensure our youngsters really do understand Maths, English and Science while others argue it should include focus on other skills including the more practical ones such as being able to cook a meal from scratch.
I had all of those things at school, along with a solid foundation in arts and physical education. Do we have to choose?"
No, you don t have to choose - I am just curious what people think should also be included; for example I think foreign languages (at least one) and an awareness of IT security should perhaps carry more weight. |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"Last 2 generations have a very different approach. All convenience foods. Take aways and vocational studies rather than professional qualifications. I think it all boils down to money. Student fees are horrendous. They can earn and learn now in a job but not train to a professional standard. I agree life skills are definately needed to be taught. "
I agree the term life skills is important and those should be taught. What would we want to include here? Maybe more emphasis on healthy relationships?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes its very important, we in Sweden leave school with 15 gcses and yes some languages to like the top 2, Spanish and german and same here had at school how to teach to cook basic things. |
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Is all of that not still taught in school? 
We had maths, English, science, R.E (although that was a total fucking flop!), humanities, history, geography, art, P.E, languages, media studies, I.T, technology (which included some basic cooking, textiles - aka: sewing, architectural design, and something else (can't remember the name) but it involved basic wood work)...
- Amy. x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Cooking and that type of thing should be taught at home and I think teachers have enough on their plates without having to teach life skills.
Parents should be sending well mannered kids to school that are ready to learn. Teachers are not babysitters.
If a child is not academic then maybe they should look at a different timetable for them. But a language should be incorporated at an early age. We are seriously lacking in this department compared to most other countries. |
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"a wonderful thing.
But what should it include? Some might say we need to ensure our youngsters really do understand Maths, English and Science while others argue it should include focus on other skills including the more practical ones such as being able to cook a meal from scratch. "
We shouldn't depend on the authorities solely for our own or our children's education. Our focus should be on ensuring that any gaps we perceive are filled in my opinion.  |
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"Martin Lewis wants money management and basic financial skills taught in schools. I agree that it's a good idea."
This one could come in handy, I suppose...
The amount of youngens that are in debt atm (and I don't mean uni fees. - Taking out overdrafts and credit cards because they've blown all their money in one go on a new laptop or a night out and have left nothing to pay travel/bills/rent/food shopping, ect). x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think nutrition should looked at in schools in more depth , and also communication and empathy the teens I meet in my job are so desensitised to the social world .... The majority of there communication is done on the phone or lap top , many of the lads I meet are like a fart in a trance there is no errancy about them and a distinct lack of manners or common curtesy , I think children need to understand what long hours of gaming and use of social media is actually doing to them . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"a wonderful thing.
But what should it include? Some might say we need to ensure our youngsters really do understand Maths, English and Science while others argue it should include focus on other skills including the more practical ones such as being able to cook a meal from scratch. "
Good question. Another question is or should be why Britain isn't at the top of the league tables and why states such as Finland are. What are they doing right and what are we doing 'wrong'?
It is difficult to say what it should include beyond the basics (maths, English, science, civics, etc), but the system should be less elitist and should provide affordable education for life. Especially as many people may only take learning seriously at a later age. |
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As for cooking from scratch, I think for most people that's a case of laziness rather than not knowing how.
Recipes can be found all over the internet and even packaging of raw vegetables from most places has cooking instructions on them...
I don't know how much more you can spoon-feed people.
And in my opinion, schools have enough to deal with without practically raising your children for you. May as well hand them over at birth at the rate. "See you when you're 18!". |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
So, another question would be the scope of what should be delivered at school and what parents can be expected to teach their children.
I personally feel that basic cooking and maintaining a home are skills that are really the parents' responsibility.
But in a climate where 42% plus (recent statistic of married couples, the real figure is probably nearer 50%) of marriages end in separation, this can make life quite tricky for those who have main residency. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As for cooking from scratch, I think for most people that's a case of laziness rather than not knowing how.
Recipes can be found all over the internet and even packaging of raw vegetables from most places has cooking instructions on them...
I don't know how much more you can spoon-feed people.
And in my opinion, schools have enough to deal with without practically raising your children for you. May as well hand them over at birth at the rate. "See you when you're 18!"."
This is a good point  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"a wonderful thing.
But what should it include? Some might say we need to ensure our youngsters really do understand Maths, English and Science while others argue it should include focus on other skills including the more practical ones such as being able to cook a meal from scratch. "
Have a look at what is now included in a school syllabus. The options we could take in years gone by meant you really did have a varied choice. The number of subjects taught now has increased. But this has been offset by kids being forced to take more mandatory subjects, sciences being one of them. When you have no aptitude for it, and no intention to use it later in life, its means that your other actual options are reduced. Schools are also restricted in what they can teach, just by virtue of trying to fit in the subjects (to a meaningful length) in a quite short day.
Drop PE and there is another 3 hrs available!
Cooking, etc are all taught in schools. You would be surprised (some might say shocked) at the amount of non academic subjects that are taught in schools now. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don't think you learn enough life skills at school, the basics of education to get you along but that's about it.
I know a lot of friends at school were real academically minded but left school and didn't actually get anywhere in life beyond, girls retiring to being a mother on the social and guys mostly landing in jobs that paid minimum age if getting anywhere at all.
It's all fine and dandy having a brain that works like a sponge but life is so different when you become an adult, social skills, money management, nutrition, respect, discipline in my view are the very minimum things you need to have skills in beyond the basics to get by in life.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Martin Lewis wants money management and basic financial skills taught in schools. I agree that it's a good idea."
One of my children goes to special school and that's what she had been learning. Along with skills to help her live independent.
However all my children can cook... As teaching them like my Nan and mum taught me is something I enjoy.
My other two older children also learn about relationships and sexuality at school. They are 17 and 14 x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's all fine and dandy having a brain that works like a sponge but life is so different when you become an adult, social skills, money management, nutrition, respect, discipline in my view are the very minimum things you need to have skills in beyond the basics to get by in life.
"
None of those things are rocket science though.
There is a girl on my uni course, she's 19 now. A few months ago I was having a conversation with her and she said 'living in a house is so hard' so I asked her why. She said 'you know, you have to pay bills and stuff'. So I suggested she get a job if she was struggling with money, her response was 'no, it's like, they have to be paid by a certain date. I don't know how to do that'.
There you have it. Education can't make someone buy a walllplanner. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't think you learn enough life skills at school, the basics of education to get you along but that's about it.
I know a lot of friends at school were real academically minded but left school and didn't actually get anywhere in life beyond, girls retiring to being a mother on the social and guys mostly landing in jobs that paid minimum age if getting anywhere at all.
It's all fine and dandy having a brain that works like a sponge but life is so different when you become an adult, social skills, money management, nutrition, respect, discipline in my view are the very minimum things you need to have skills in beyond the basics to get by in life.
"
Isn't this the parents job ? |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"Martin Lewis wants money management and basic financial skills taught in schools. I agree that it's a good idea.
This one could come in handy, I suppose...
The amount of youngens that are in debt atm (and I don't mean uni fees. - Taking out overdrafts and credit cards because they've blown all their money in one go on a new laptop or a night out and have left nothing to pay travel/bills/rent/food shopping, ect). x"
Already available - all a school has to do is contact a certain bank that does this for free.
A |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Cooking and that type of thing should be taught at home and I think teachers have enough on their plates without having to teach life skills.
Parents should be sending well mannered kids to school that are ready to learn. Teachers are not babysitters.
If a child is not academic then maybe they should look at a different timetable for them. But a language should be incorporated at an early age. We are seriously lacking in this department compared to most other countries. "
Too many shit parents not teaching their kids basic skills. Too much of a "it's not my fault" culture.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Cooking and that type of thing should be taught at home and I think teachers have enough on their plates without having to teach life skills.
Parents should be sending well mannered kids to school that are ready to learn. Teachers are not babysitters.
If a child is not academic then maybe they should look at a different timetable for them. But a language should be incorporated at an early age. We are seriously lacking in this department compared to most other countries.
Too many shit parents not teaching their kids basic skills. Too much of a "it's not my fault" culture. "
It's amazing how many children turn up for their first day at school not even toilet trained. It's like they are using teachers to teach the kids everything. |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"Cooking and that type of thing should be taught at home and I think teachers have enough on their plates without having to teach life skills.
Parents should be sending well mannered kids to school that are ready to learn. Teachers are not babysitters.
If a child is not academic then maybe they should look at a different timetable for them. But a language should be incorporated at an early age. We are seriously lacking in this department compared to most other countries.
Too many shit parents not teaching their kids basic skills. Too much of a "it's not my fault" culture. "
A useful thing to teach in schools would be 'common sense'.
Severely lacking in much of the adult population so I'm guessing it's been off the curriculum at both school and home for a fucking long time!
A |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't think you learn enough life skills at school, the basics of education to get you along but that's about it.
I know a lot of friends at school were real academically minded but left school and didn't actually get anywhere in life beyond, girls retiring to being a mother on the social and guys mostly landing in jobs that paid minimum age if getting anywhere at all.
It's all fine and dandy having a brain that works like a sponge but life is so different when you become an adult, social skills, money management, nutrition, respect, discipline in my view are the very minimum things you need to have skills in beyond the basics to get by in life.
Isn't this the parents job ? "
You'd think, sadly not always the case.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Cooking and that type of thing should be taught at home and I think teachers have enough on their plates without having to teach life skills.
Parents should be sending well mannered kids to school that are ready to learn. Teachers are not babysitters.
If a child is not academic then maybe they should look at a different timetable for them. But a language should be incorporated at an early age. We are seriously lacking in this department compared to most other countries.
Too many shit parents not teaching their kids basic skills. Too much of a "it's not my fault" culture.
It's amazing how many children turn up for their first day at school not even toilet trained. It's like they are using teachers to teach the kids everything. "
This! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Cooking and that type of thing should be taught at home and I think teachers have enough on their plates without having to teach life skills.
Parents should be sending well mannered kids to school that are ready to learn. Teachers are not babysitters.
If a child is not academic then maybe they should look at a different timetable for them. But a language should be incorporated at an early age. We are seriously lacking in this department compared to most other countries.
Too many shit parents not teaching their kids basic skills. Too much of a "it's not my fault" culture.
It's amazing how many children turn up for their first day at school not even toilet trained. It's like they are using teachers to teach the kids everything.
This! "
Kid's raising kids. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Teachers should have a more freehanded approach but they are told to stick to strict guidelines and all they end up doing is teaching kids to pass exams. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Should make them learn a trade.
Or put them through a boot camp because most kids these days are cheeky little twats."
No, they're not. The cheeky twats are the ones you remember. Most kids are decent, polite and keep themselves to themselves. That's why you don't notice them. |
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I must say that I believe education should suit the audience. The brighter kids should have a greater variety, where as the less able kids should be educated first on the most important things.... things like reading, writing, real-world maths and life skills.
It seems ludicrous to me that we'll (try to) teach kids things like french and business studies when they can't read and write or work out the cost of their dinner.
Cal |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I must say that I believe education should suit the audience. The brighter kids should have a greater variety, where as the less able kids should be educated first on the most important things.... things like reading, writing, real-world maths and life skills.
It seems ludicrous to me that we'll (try to) teach kids things like french and business studies when they can't read and write or work out the cost of their dinner.
Cal"
Seems sensible to me |
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By *ipswingCouple
over a year ago
portrush |
"Should make them learn a trade.
Or put them through a boot camp because most kids these days are cheeky little twats."
bring back national service ,i say ... so they are shown, how to kill and blow things up .. learn the law of the jungle ....Yes Sir ...No Sir ... by the left quick march ... |
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"Should make them learn a trade.
Or put them through a boot camp because most kids these days are cheeky little twats.
bring back national service ,i say ... so they are shown, how to kill and blow things up .. learn the law of the jungle ....Yes Sir ...No Sir ... by the left quick march ..."
Cool, we definitely need more twats with guns  |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
So we are talking about academic skills like Maths, English and Science etc but also about life skills like cooking, looking after a home and paying bills on time etc.
Then there is a third category which seems about morality, courtesy, respect for others and their belongings etc?
I would agree that all those are important and I would include also some of the "pleasurable" things like music and art.
Thing is where does parental responsibility stop and where does school take over.
And... are there other "agencies" or people who share or could share an input into what our youngsters learn?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Last 2 generations have a very different approach. All convenience foods. Take aways and vocational studies rather than professional qualifications. I think it all boils down to money. Student fees are horrendous. They can earn and learn now in a job but not train to a professional standard. I agree life skills are definately needed to be taught. "
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"Education is..........failing the majority of kids in this country  "
I sometimes feel like that and, incidentally not limited to this country but perhaps a global development?
What needs to happen to reverse this? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Education is..........failing the majority of kids in this country
I sometimes feel like that and, incidentally not limited to this country but perhaps a global development?
What needs to happen to reverse this? "
A recognition that kids are different, some are academic, some are arty, some are incredibly practical. Stream kids to achieve the best they possibly can while recognising not all of them will win a nobel prize, and not all of them will be street cleaners. Attempting to cater to an average means we will have an average output. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Education is..........failing the majority of kids in this country
I sometimes feel like that and, incidentally not limited to this country but perhaps a global development?
What needs to happen to reverse this? "
Finland interests me...they test less, have mixed ability classes up till the age of 14 , teachers have much more autonomy too...
In Shanghai, teachers are timetabled to teach around 2-3 lessons a day and spend the rest of the time assessing previous work and planning lessons for the next day....
The new GCSEs are an improvement...but I'm not sure that's enough... With PRP and league tables, it's easy to imagine a situation like what was discovered in the US where a group of teachers felt pressured to deliver results and ended up cheating... |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"Education is..........failing the majority of kids in this country
I sometimes feel like that and, incidentally not limited to this country but perhaps a global development?
What needs to happen to reverse this?
A recognition that kids are different, some are academic, some are arty, some are incredibly practical. Stream kids to achieve the best they possibly can while recognising not all of them will win a nobel prize, and not all of them will be street cleaners. Attempting to cater to an average means we will have an average output."
I think I agree with you there - how realistic are we in assuming this will happen in the foreseeable future?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Should make them learn a trade.
Or put them through a boot camp because most kids these days are cheeky little twats.
No, they're not. The cheeky twats are the ones you remember. Most kids are decent, polite and keep themselves to themselves. That's why you don't notice them."
I know some cheeky little twats. I treat them with respect and talk nicely to them, and now they treat me the same.
To my face.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Education is..........failing the majority of kids in this country
I sometimes feel like that and, incidentally not limited to this country but perhaps a global development?
What needs to happen to reverse this? "
Parents to take more responsibility. Teachers can only do so much. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Education is..........failing the majority of kids in this country
Because it's not always education that they're receiving but schooling....
"
So true |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"Education is..........failing the majority of kids in this country
I sometimes feel like that and, incidentally not limited to this country but perhaps a global development?
What needs to happen to reverse this?
Parents to take more responsibility. Teachers can only do so much. "
Playing devil's advocate here.. what if the parents are unable to take that repsonsibility through perhaps lack of understanding, gaps in their own education or even being overwhelmed by say being a single parent?
I am just asking - not saying it is right. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It might help if successive governments didn't tinker with education year after year. Trying to ascertain the results of too many changes too often has become impossible.
I'm just glad I caught the last year if o levels. There is a lot to be said for consistency. |
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"Yes its very important, we in Sweden leave school with 15 gcses and yes some languages to like the top 2, Spanish and german and same here had at school how to teach to cook basic things."
I didnt know you was Swedish.. see.. I learned something new today |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes its very important, we in Sweden leave school with 15 gcses and yes some languages to like the top 2, Spanish and german and same here had at school how to teach to cook basic things.I didnt know you was Swedish.. see.. I learned something new today "
He's got a six pack as well. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Education is..........failing the majority of kids in this country
I sometimes feel like that and, incidentally not limited to this country but perhaps a global development?
What needs to happen to reverse this?
Parents to take more responsibility. Teachers can only do so much.
Playing devil's advocate here.. what if the parents are unable to take that repsonsibility through perhaps lack of understanding, gaps in their own education or even being overwhelmed by say being a single parent?
I am just asking - not saying it is right. "
All a child needs to do is to turn up ready to learn. Any parent can teach manners and discipline. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Education is..........failing the majority of kids in this country
I sometimes feel like that and, incidentally not limited to this country but perhaps a global development?
What needs to happen to reverse this?
Parents to take more responsibility. Teachers can only do so much.
Playing devil's advocate here.. what if the parents are unable to take that repsonsibility through perhaps lack of understanding, gaps in their own education or even being overwhelmed by say being a single parent?
I am just asking - not saying it is right.
All a child needs to do is to turn up ready to learn. Any parent can teach manners and discipline. "
Every parent can, unfortunately not every parent does.....  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Education is..........failing the majority of kids in this country
I sometimes feel like that and, incidentally not limited to this country but perhaps a global development?
What needs to happen to reverse this?
Parents to take more responsibility. Teachers can only do so much.
Playing devil's advocate here.. what if the parents are unable to take that repsonsibility through perhaps lack of understanding, gaps in their own education or even being overwhelmed by say being a single parent?
I am just asking - not saying it is right.
All a child needs to do is to turn up ready to learn. Any parent can teach manners and discipline.
Every parent can, unfortunately not every parent does..... "
It still isn't up to teachers.
There have always been srotey ne'er do wells. Always will be. |
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Education shouldn't be one-size fits all. All students can excel when teachers work hard to find out their strengths and interests. While it's important that children are pushing for success in key subjects, they shouldn't be made to feel as that's the only way to succeed in certain fields or in life.
One thing I do feel is important is Languages. Government talk about competing globally yet other countries making English and other key languages high priority in education. That a major advantage. |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
Thing is... can every parent?
Again playing devil's avocate.. and I am going off topic a bit but....
If you have grown up in an environment where arguing and shouting and perhaps even domestic violence are on the daily menu, are you not likely to at leats in part replicate this behaviour?
I am not trying to make excuses but I wonder sometimes about parents and whether they genuinely know the differnece between a good and bad environment for their child? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Education is..........failing the majority of kids in this country
I sometimes feel like that and, incidentally not limited to this country but perhaps a global development?
What needs to happen to reverse this?
Parents to take more responsibility. Teachers can only do so much.
Playing devil's advocate here.. what if the parents are unable to take that repsonsibility through perhaps lack of understanding, gaps in their own education or even being overwhelmed by say being a single parent?
I am just asking - not saying it is right.
All a child needs to do is to turn up ready to learn. Any parent can teach manners and discipline.
Every parent can, unfortunately not every parent does.....
It still isn't up to teachers.
There have always been srotey ne'er do wells. Always will be."
I agree, teachers should not have to teach disruptive kids, bad enough having classes of 30 without having a small number making it almost impossible because they can't behave. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Thing is... can every parent?
Again playing devil's avocate.. and I am going off topic a bit but....
If you have grown up in an environment where arguing and shouting and perhaps even domestic violence are on the daily menu, are you not likely to at leats in part replicate this behaviour?
I am not trying to make excuses but I wonder sometimes about parents and whether they genuinely know the differnece between a good and bad environment for their child? "
I know exactly what your saying but I do not think it is the schools or teachers responsibility to parent the children. |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"Thing is... can every parent?
Again playing devil's avocate.. and I am going off topic a bit but....
If you have grown up in an environment where arguing and shouting and perhaps even domestic violence are on the daily menu, are you not likely to at leats in part replicate this behaviour?
I am not trying to make excuses but I wonder sometimes about parents and whether they genuinely know the differnece between a good and bad environment for their child?
I know exactly what your saying but I do not think it is the schools or teachers responsibility to parent the children. "
I agree with you and that it is not the school's/ teachers' responsibility and tbh I would personally want to "print" my own stamp on my child's behaviours, values and attitude as therein lies the beauty of parenting.
I am just "concerned" I guess is the word, that it seems society is becoming more advanced in many ways but fails a bit where it comes to putting good seeds down ie investing in our young. Not just here but globally in the industrialised world? |
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"Education is..........failing the majority of kids in this country
I sometimes feel like that and, incidentally not limited to this country but perhaps a global development?
What needs to happen to reverse this?
Parents to take more responsibility. Teachers can only do so much.
Playing devil's advocate here.. what if the parents are unable to take that repsonsibility through perhaps lack of understanding, gaps in their own education or even being overwhelmed by say being a single parent?
I am just asking - not saying it is right.
All a child needs to do is to turn up ready to learn. Any parent can teach manners and discipline.
Every parent can, unfortunately not every parent does.....
It still isn't up to teachers.
There have always been srotey ne'er do wells. Always will be.
I agree, teachers should not have to teach disruptive kids, bad enough having classes of 30 without having a small number making it almost impossible because they can't behave."
I disagree.
I appreciate that dealing with disruptive children is agony but so is sitting through a dull and uninspiring lesson. Students need to listen but Teachers also need to engage. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I recently met and spent some time with a 17 year old girl that had been home educated. No GCSE's...but the most switched on girl of that age I think I've ever met. She was taught all the basics...but the focus was a lot more on practical things that actually prepare her for life, money management, cooking, sewing, politics, gardening and so on. She regularly attended loads of mixed age clubs and courses, and learnt boat building, sail making, traditional upholstery, and was just about to start an antique furniture restoration course. She said she hasnt done any GCSE's, but if she finds she needs the gongs in the future she can always take them then.
She said back in the day it was typical to either train your kids to follow in your trade, or you sent them off to apprentice with someone else. Then along came the industrial revolution and the school system was based on wanting to raise the basic reading writing and arithmetic levels to the same to churn out good factory workers, and the school system has evolved to a point that individuality and creativity is being squashed.
I have to agree, and we will likely be looking at our local Steiner school for our future kids. |
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"I recently met and spent some time with a 17 year old girl that had been home educated. No GCSE's...but the most switched on girl of that age I think I've ever met. She was taught all the basics...but the focus was a lot more on practical things that actually prepare her for life, money management, cooking, sewing, politics, gardening and so on. She regularly attended loads of mixed age clubs and courses, and learnt boat building, sail making, traditional upholstery, and was just about to start an antique furniture restoration course. She said she hasnt done any GCSE's, but if she finds she needs the gongs in the future she can always take them then.
She said back in the day it was typical to either train your kids to follow in your trade, or you sent them off to apprentice with someone else. Then along came the industrial revolution and the school system was based on wanting to raise the basic reading writing and arithmetic levels to the same to churn out good factory workers, and the school system has evolved to a point that individuality and creativity is being squashed.
I have to agree, and we will likely be looking at our local Steiner school for our future kids. "
Nice to know there is other ways and means of succeeding in life. |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"I recently met and spent some time with a 17 year old girl that had been home educated. No GCSE's...but the most switched on girl of that age I think I've ever met. She was taught all the basics...but the focus was a lot more on practical things that actually prepare her for life, money management, cooking, sewing, politics, gardening and so on. She regularly attended loads of mixed age clubs and courses, and learnt boat building, sail making, traditional upholstery, and was just about to start an antique furniture restoration course. She said she hasnt done any GCSE's, but if she finds she needs the gongs in the future she can always take them then.
She said back in the day it was typical to either train your kids to follow in your trade, or you sent them off to apprentice with someone else. Then along came the industrial revolution and the school system was based on wanting to raise the basic reading writing and arithmetic levels to the same to churn out good factory workers, and the school system has evolved to a point that individuality and creativity is being squashed.
I have to agree, and we will likely be looking at our local Steiner school for our future kids. "
Mine spent time at Steiner at pre-school age and it was a really good choice before they went on to the state system. I was a bit concerned about continuity in their education if they had stayed within the Montessori/ Steiner environment as I did not completely agree with their values. Also I worried about how they would fit into secondary and tertiary education if they had stayed at Steiner - but perhaps I worried unnecessarily. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I agree, teachers should not have to teach disruptive kids, bad enough having classes of 30 without having a small number making it almost impossible because they can't behave.
I disagree.
I appreciate that dealing with disruptive children is agony but so is sitting through a dull and uninspiring lesson. Students need to listen but Teachers also need to engage."
It's not just agony... it damages the education of the other children in the class who are engaged. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I agree, teachers should not have to teach disruptive kids, bad enough having classes of 30 without having a small number making it almost impossible because they can't behave.
I disagree.
I appreciate that dealing with disruptive children is agony but so is sitting through a dull and uninspiring lesson. Students need to listen but Teachers also need to engage.
It's not just agony... it damages the education of the other children in the class who are engaged."
by having to deal with the lowest common denominator everyone gets dumbed down. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It seems to me that given the obsession with league tables that the pressure on teachers is to teach the kids how to pass an exam, not necessarily impart knowledge.
I guess I'm a little idealistic but kids need to be taught how to learn, to develop a thirst for knowledge and shown how to develop that knowledge, not a snapshot on the basis of what is going to be an exam question.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems to me that given the obsession with league tables that the pressure on teachers is to teach the kids how to pass an exam, not necessarily impart knowledge.
I guess I'm a little idealistic but kids need to be taught how to learn, to develop a thirst for knowledge and shown how to develop that knowledge, not a snapshot on the basis of what is going to be an exam question.
"
I agree. Finland does not have league tables, the children have fewer lessons than here and don't sit as many standardised tests. I don't believe what you are saying is idealistic at all. There are countries where such systems exist. The teacher/parent lobby isn't strong enough to influence government, and while that remains the case.....things will remain as they are.
"...We want to do two things in modern society. We want one class of persons to have a liberal education, and we want another class of persons, a very much larger class, of necessity, in every society, to forego the privileges of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks."
"We are either trying to make liberally-educated persons out of them, or we are trying to make skillful servants of society along mechanical lines..."
Woodrow Wilson (January 9, 1909)
I don't think much has changed.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems to me that given the obsession with league tables that the pressure on teachers is to teach the kids how to pass an exam, not necessarily impart knowledge.
I guess I'm a little idealistic but kids need to be taught how to learn, to develop a thirst for knowledge and shown how to develop that knowledge, not a snapshot on the basis of what is going to be an exam question.
I agree. Finland does not have league tables, the children have fewer lessons than here and don't sit as many standardised tests. I don't believe what you are saying is idealistic at all. There are countries where such systems exist. The teacher/parent lobby isn't strong enough to influence government, and while that remains the case.....things will remain as they are.
"...We want to do two things in modern society. We want one class of persons to have a liberal education, and we want another class of persons, a very much larger class, of necessity, in every society, to forego the privileges of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks."
"We are either trying to make liberally-educated persons out of them, or we are trying to make skillful servants of society along mechanical lines..."
Woodrow Wilson (January 9, 1909)
I don't think much has changed.
"
I think a lot has changed, and not necessarily for the better. People, irrespective of their ability have been given a sense of entitlement due to the proliferation of 3rd rate higher education establishments offering courses of no real value. While real and valuable careers have been devalued. |
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That would depend on how education is being defined here.
It does exist outside of 'the system'. To read this thread it would seem that most overlook any informal education or the purpose of education, without which we cannot decide what to include or omit. |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"That would depend on how education is being defined here.
It does exist outside of 'the system'. To read this thread it would seem that most overlook any informal education or the purpose of education, without which we cannot decide what to include or omit."
Good point - how would you rephrase it so it becomes clearer? |
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"That would depend on how education is being defined here.
It does exist outside of 'the system'. To read this thread it would seem that most overlook any informal education or the purpose of education, without which we cannot decide what to include or omit.Good point - how would you rephrase it so it becomes clearer? "
What is education ?
Do we need formal institutionalised education ?
Should formal education be for the individual or the nation ?
How can formal education best serve our economy ?
What type of education can save us from soul less capitalistic existences?
I think question 1 is a good starting place.
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"That would depend on how education is being defined here.
It does exist outside of 'the system'. To read this thread it would seem that most overlook any informal education or the purpose of education, without which we cannot decide what to include or omit.Good point - how would you rephrase it so it becomes clearer?
What is education ?
Do we need formal institutionalised education ?
Should formal education be for the individual or the nation ?
How can formal education best serve our economy ?
What type of education can save us from soul less capitalistic existences?
I think question 1 is a good starting place.
"
Brilliant - I knew I could rely on your logical mind!
So guys and girls... you heard Granny!
What IS education? |
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"
I agree, teachers should not have to teach disruptive kids, bad enough having classes of 30 without having a small number making it almost impossible because they can't behave.
I disagree.
I appreciate that dealing with disruptive children is agony but so is sitting through a dull and uninspiring lesson. Students need to listen but Teachers also need to engage.
It's not just agony... it damages the education of the other children in the class who are engaged."
If there's one I've learned from schools is that children rarely misbehave alone. Plus, raise your hand if you was an absolute angel at school. I wasn't but I wasn't unbearable either.
When I talk about engaging with children, it's not just the passing of information they need to pass an exam set by the state but inspiration and guidance. Forgive me if I sound a bit soft but children spend just as much time with teachers as they do with their parents during their academic years so are a very important figure in a child's life. Any teacher that doesn't understand that should look at why they do the job. That said, there should be more communication between parents and teachers in regards to children's behaviour and development.
As I said earlier, I do appreciate some teachers' agony. I have family members who are teachers. But they would never turn their back on a child as they remember who the adult in this situation is.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I agree, teachers should not have to teach disruptive kids, bad enough having classes of 30 without having a small number making it almost impossible because they can't behave.
I disagree.
I appreciate that dealing with disruptive children is agony but so is sitting through a dull and uninspiring lesson. Students need to listen but Teachers also need to engage.
It's not just agony... it damages the education of the other children in the class who are engaged.
If there's one I've learned from schools is that children rarely misbehave alone. Plus, raise your hand if you was an absolute angel at school. I wasn't but I wasn't unbearable either.
When I talk about engaging with children, it's not just the passing of information they need to pass an exam set by the state but inspiration and guidance. Forgive me if I sound a bit soft but children spend just as much time with teachers as they do with their parents during their academic years so are a very important figure in a child's life. Any teacher that doesn't understand that should look at why they do the job. That said, there should be more communication between parents and teachers in regards to children's behaviour and development.
As I said earlier, I do appreciate some teachers' agony. I have family members who are teachers. But they would never turn their back on a child as they remember who the adult in this situation is.
"
If you speak with those family members that are teachers or work in education, they'll tell you that pastoral staff are regularly in contact with parents of children that break rules. In most schools, persistent offenders may be about 5-10% of the school population. As you say, students don't misbehave alone, unless they suffer from certain variations of autism. However, classroom dynamics work in such a way that one or two children can steal the attention/concentration of students by misbehaving. That can be costly, both emotionally and academically, for all concerned.
Granny does raise an interesting question...?
If, in my view, most children are schooled in order to pass tests... what is education?
I'm going to chew on that for a while...
The thirst for learning and love of knowledge someone mentioned earlier struck a chord. Though, continuing further down the rabbit hole, what is learning? What is it to learn..beyond committing something to memory at least. If we don't know, how can we place any value on it? |
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By *phrodite OP Woman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"
The thirst for learning and love of knowledge someone mentioned earlier struck a chord. Though, continuing further down the rabbit hole, what is learning? What is it to learn..beyond committing something to memory at least. If we don't know, how can we place any value on it?"
I am just selecting this part of your post as it equally strikes a chord with me.
Yes, there is learning in order to pass the education system, obtain relevant qualifications, get a job etc.
But learning is so much more than that, isnt' it?
It is about discovering those very things that are not taught at school, it is about independent, critical thinking, about having meaningful conversations (and relationships) with others and lastly it is about making sense of what we are and what we want out of that short period called life.
What else is there? |
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"
I agree, teachers should not have to teach disruptive kids, bad enough having classes of 30 without having a small number making it almost impossible because they can't behave.
I disagree.
I appreciate that dealing with disruptive children is agony but so is sitting through a dull and uninspiring lesson. Students need to listen but Teachers also need to engage.
It's not just agony... it damages the education of the other children in the class who are engaged.
If there's one I've learned from schools is that children rarely misbehave alone. Plus, raise your hand if you was an absolute angel at school. I wasn't but I wasn't unbearable either.
When I talk about engaging with children, it's not just the passing of information they need to pass an exam set by the state but inspiration and guidance. Forgive me if I sound a bit soft but children spend just as much time with teachers as they do with their parents during their academic years so are a very important figure in a child's life. Any teacher that doesn't understand that should look at why they do the job. That said, there should be more communication between parents and teachers in regards to children's behaviour and development.
As I said earlier, I do appreciate some teachers' agony. I have family members who are teachers. But they would never turn their back on a child as they remember who the adult in this situation is.
If you speak with those family members that are teachers or work in education, they'll tell you that pastoral staff are regularly in contact with parents of children that break rules. In most schools, persistent offenders may be about 5-10% of the school population. As you say, students don't misbehave alone, unless they suffer from certain variations of autism. However, classroom dynamics work in such a way that one or two children can steal the attention/concentration of students by misbehaving. That can be costly, both emotionally and academically, for all concerned.
Granny does raise an interesting question...?
If, in my view, most children are schooled in order to pass tests... what is education?
I'm going to chew on that for a while...
The thirst for learning and love of knowledge someone mentioned earlier struck a chord. Though, continuing further down the rabbit hole, what is learning? What is it to learn..beyond committing something to memory at least. If we don't know, how can we place any value on it?"
Well, this is the thing. We all learn differently.
As I said earlier, Education shouldn't be one size fits all. For me, it's about learning what you're good at or passionate about, honing those skills and traits towards bettering yourself, whether academically or not. I think it's very unfair to judge someone on strict parameters when they could actually be exceptional at something else. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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""Education is our passport for the future, for tomorrow belongs to the people who prepare for it today. " Malcolm X"
Being educated I know that's Malcolm Ten |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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""Education is our passport for the future, for tomorrow belongs to the people who prepare for it today. " Malcolm X
Being educated I know that's Malcolm Ten
Don't be stupid. It's Malcolm Kiss. "
No,it's Malcolm this is where the treasure is buried arrrrrrr! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The greatest thing I ever 'learned' was common sense.
My ex said I had none. It's all subjective in my opinion "
My point being, not everything in life comes from a book or a board, or even that Encarta thingy. |
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