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Suicide - why is it higher in men than women?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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After the recent plane crash, I ended up having a discussion at work today, heated at times, about suicide in general. The person I was speaking to, felt it was a selfish act (regardless of circumstances), I disagreed* (*obviously if they are not taking someone else's life as well as their own.)
In 2013, 78% of suicides were in men. The most vulnerable age group were those aged between 45 and 59, however, the rates have been increasing in all age groups except in the under thirties.
SANE's(the mental health charity) own research shows that many suicides could be prevented, if people were able to talk more openly about their feelings and felt able to seek therapy or other help.
I always think that Mental health is still difficult for many to talk about and especially if it is not something you have ever suffered from before. I imagine, it must be harder for men to talk about how they are feeling, as they are expected to always be strong ( I am not saying that is right, I think society seems to still expect it, although it is slowly evolving).I just wondered what others thought?
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Because men bottle things up and feel that they are weak if they speak out that they are depressed. Women (not all) tend to speak out as to how they feel. For men it's a pride thing and often don't want to say anything as they feel that their mates would take the piss and lose this masculinity |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Because men bottle things up and feel that they are weak if they speak out that they are depressed. Women (not all) tend to speak out as to how they feel. For men it's a pride thing and often don't want to say anything as they feel that their mates would take the piss and lose this masculinity "
This  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Because men bottle things up and feel that they are weak if they speak out that they are depressed. Women (not all) tend to speak out as to how they feel. For men it's a pride thing and often don't want to say anything as they feel that their mates would take the piss and lose this masculinity
This "
Yep |
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I think that it's simply a question of
Women talk more about everything generally
Men are more guarded especially with feelings
And also they're less likely to seek any kind of medical help for anything
I've spent some years in mental hospitals
I am neither ashamed nor embarrassed to say so and I'm now councilling others to assist in their recovery
And it's never ever ever selfish to want to commit suicide
Most people wanting to, feel too much of a burden on everyone else that they feel that they're doing them a favour by disappearing forever |
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"Because men bottle things up and feel that they are weak if they speak out that they are depressed. Women (not all) tend to speak out as to how they feel. For men it's a pride thing and often don't want to say anything as they feel that their mates would take the piss and lose this masculinity "
Their not this. Also men often don't want to burden others with their issues and don't want their family to worry often taking the whole world on their shoulders which for anyone has its breaking points and often they feel that suicide is the only way out as then the family will not have to deal with the problems such as debt etc.. |
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By *tloversCouple
over a year ago
Warrington |
I wonder how young it starts tho..This is something I been thinking about a lot recently.
My daughter went on a brownie holiday. .One of the girls was homesick and crying. The other girls pulled together, gave her a hug and made sure she wasn't on her own.
My son went on a cub camp. One of the boys was homesick and crying. The other boys ignored him and carried on with what they were doing.
This really upset me. My son and daughter come from a loving open home full of hugs and we talk about feelings. I know a lot of those other cubs come from lovely homes.
Who has taught little boys that it is ok to ignore someone who is upset? Who has taught little girls that someone upset needs someone to talk to?
It's like it is an innate reaction even at that early age. It upset me so much. There is no hope for young men in our society when 7yr old boys react like that
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Not so much macho about not speaking out it's also to do with how male brains are wired- in that being logical ( no chauvinism intended) we try to work through a problem that unfortunatly is in our heads and becomes a viscious circle as we cannot solve it ourselves. Think a computer that freezes when under load. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Because men bottle things up and feel that they are weak if they speak out that they are depressed. Women (not all) tend to speak out as to how they feel. For men it's a pride thing and often don't want to say anything as they feel that their mates would take the piss and lose this masculinity "
Sad but true |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I did manage to speak out before it was too late, but depressed thinking has a warped logic that is impossible to explain to those that haven't experienced it.
But, but you HAVE to trust the person you speak to i think that was very important. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I did manage to speak out before it was too late, but depressed thinking has a warped logic that is impossible to explain to those that haven't experienced it.
But, but you HAVE to trust the person you speak to i think that was very important."
I'm glad you were able to talk to someone.
The Samaritans are fantastic too, so no-one ever needs to feel alone. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There could be an aspect that more women than men are primary carers (to children, parents) which may make them feel they are needed by someone which means they can't take their own life.
There is definitely something in the cultural conditions we place on men and women - "man up", "grow some balls", "strap a pair on" - a thousand tiny reminders to men that they are expected to bottle it up rather than showing emotions.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Totally agree, one thing i have noticed that is quite subtle is that people generally view me as level headed and sound so the last person they expect to have problems. In fact these people should be the first on the radar in my opinion |
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"Because men bottle things up and feel that they are weak if they speak out that they are depressed. Women (not all) tend to speak out as to how they feel. For men it's a pride thing and often don't want to say anything as they feel that their mates would take the piss and lose this masculinity "
well im certainly not like that ..were not all the same . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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i to have suffered and you dont understand whats happening to you let alone be able to explain and you dont want people to notice so you paint a smile on and many family and friends had no idea
you also drop to such deep depths that rational thinking and asking for help dont come into your thoughts sadly |
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On my step family's side, they've had 7 suicides since I think mid 60s. 1 x shotgun, 2 x underground, 3 x trains, and the most recent and upsetting, my female (but recently out) cousin of 40, hung herself because she was turned down for adoption. God knows how many times her brother has tried, but I hope he doesn't succeed. All men apart from the last, marriage break ups, redundancy and general financial difficulties were thought to be the main causes. That side of the family don't speak, don't argue openly, or generally show feelings. Wouldn't say that I knew my step grandparents well, even though I saw them twice a month, wouldn't say I even know my step dad well after 40 years. Whereas my side who sometimes I see once a year, cousins 26 years, but feel really close and we air feelings and deal with them. |
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By *unkysoulWoman
over a year ago
Mitcham, Surrey |
Is suicide a selfish act? Surely this 'label' is a result of the emotion of those left behind, most definitely not reflective of the person themselves.
Suicide is a desperate act by someone who is in intense pain and wants their pain to stop. That is a HUMAN response to extreme pain, not a selfish one. And over 90 percent of the people who die by suicide have a mental illness at the time of their death, so they are not thinking clearly |
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Sometimes we assume why a person ended it all, this however may not be the real reason. Obviously this is impossible to establish after a person has gone, but if we knew, it may help us to understand why there are more male suicides than female. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Years ago I used to work in bars. I mixed a lot with men in a social sense, listened to all the banter and the bravado and we all had a good laugh. More often than not, after a fair soaking of alcohol, they would open up and chat honestly. I always thought it was a great shame that they were chatting to me and not their partner (if they had one) and that they had to get pissed up to open up.
Men are stronger physically. Women are stronger mentally. Put that together in a society that sees male emotions as weak and we have the statistic above. |
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"Because men bottle things up and feel that they are weak if they speak out that they are depressed. Women (not all) tend to speak out as to how they feel. For men it's a pride thing and often don't want to say anything as they feel that their mates would take the piss and lose this masculinity
well im certainly not like that ..were not all the same ."
Never said you were I was giving a general consensus with the amount of training I've completed around issues around suicide. |
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"Just a question to fem's & couples . Would you meet a guy if you knew he had previous mental issues given that you had the choice of several fit men that attracted you "
Yes and I have dated someone with mental health issues |
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I am proud i sought help for my issues and i will never hide hide the fact i had and still have therapy for a whole host of reasons, triggered by a death in the family and then my best friend dying in my arms, without seeking professional help i wouldn't be here today and i wouldn't be the person i am. |
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"I am proud i sought help for my issues and i will never hide hide the fact i had and still have therapy for a whole host of reasons, triggered by a death in the family and then my best friend dying in my arms, without seeking professional help i wouldn't be here today and i wouldn't be the person i am."
Very brave thing to do and well done for seeking the help I hope you are on the mend  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Ok inane answer...its due to all the single guys on fab who cant cope with getting no attention! Seriously though, while i agree with what people have said about men Not being able to talk, i think there's also the issue of gender roles. I'm not at all sexist and i know plenty of women who are the bread winner in the family and in highly professional jobs. However it is genetically encoded into the male psyche to be the provider for his family. many men still have that expectation of themselves and if they feel unable to perform that function, they see themselves as failures on a very deep personal level. (maybe through redundancy etc) and then cant cope. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ok inane answer...its due to all the single guys on fab who cant cope with getting no attention! Seriously though, while i agree with what people have said about men Not being able to talk, i think there's also the issue of gender roles. I'm not at all sexist and i know plenty of women who are the bread winner in the family and in highly professional jobs. However it is
genetically encoded into the male psyche to be the provider for his family. many men still have that expectation of themselves and if they feel unable to perform that function, they see themselves as failures on a very deep personal level. (maybe through redundancy etc) and then cant cope. "
Very much an element of this. |
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By *er himWoman
over a year ago
Essex |
"Just a question to fem's & couples . Would you meet a guy if you knew he had previous mental issues given that you had the choice of several fit men that attracted you
Yes and I have dated someone with mental health issues "
Glad to hear you genuine. It was just a question as to whether female expectation of the strong male figure had any influence on men hiding problems. Most depression is caused by a lack of the body producing certain chemicals. Much the same as diabetes but society accept and open about a medical condition. |
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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago
Titz Towers, North Notts |
I think too many chaps find it hard to talk about things, be open and ask for help. Cripes, I know lads who would leave it till they were up to their neck in quicksand before mentioning that things may have gotten a slight bit ticklish and they may, possibly, need a helping hand.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think the male preference for not expressing feelings may well be a significant factor in both clinical depression and suicides. I am probably unusual as a man as I express feelings and emotions freely, perhaps too often for others. However I rarely feel in a negative mood for very long as, once I recognise the state, I feel able to express it and deal with it. As a result I feel pretty emotionally and mentally healthy. I was raised by Mum to believe emotions were OK and expressing them was ok so never suffered the need to bottle my feelings up. My Dad on the other hand struggled with it until later in life. He has learned it's value more recently. Having someone willing to listen without judging helps too |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just a question to fem's & couples . Would you meet a guy if you knew he had previous mental issues given that you had the choice of several fit men that attracted you "
It would depend what the 'mental issues' were.
If they were something that was incompatible with my own life and my own issues, then I wouldn't meet them. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
One of the elements in the number of suicides in men and women is that men are often more successful in their methods. Generally, they present later for help. They may have been acting out (aggressive behaviour, addictions, withdrawing etc.) long before but these were seen as being a bloke.
There was a programme on suicide last week, letting the people they have left behind talk and explain how it affects them. They featured one of my favourite charities: it's a house in Islington where you can check yourself in if you're feeling suicidal. It's just a couple of days but it can be enough.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just a question to fem's & couples . Would you meet a guy if you knew he had previous mental issues given that you had the choice of several fit men that attracted you "
If they felt it was a serious enough mental health problem that they had to tell me about it, then honestly that could put me off. I'm not in this for a relationship after all. There are things about myself I don't feel the need to tell people I'm going to meet, so I'd expect the same to be true for a lot of people. Statistically, I most likely HAVE met men who've had mental health issues, but they haven't told me, because why would I need to know. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There could be an aspect that more women than men are primary carers (to children, parents) which may make them feel they are needed by someone which means they can't take their own life.
There is definitely something in the cultural conditions we place on men and women - "man up", "grow some balls", "strap a pair on" - a thousand tiny reminders to men that they are expected to bottle it up rather than showing emotions.
"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Because men bottle things up and feel that they are weak if they speak out that they are depressed. Women (not all) tend to speak out as to how they feel. For men it's a pride thing and often don't want to say anything as they feel that their mates would take the piss and lose this masculinity
Their not this. Also men often don't want to burden others with their issues and don't want their family to worry often taking the whole world on their shoulders which for anyone has its breaking points and often they feel that suicide is the only way out as then the family will not have to deal with the problems such as debt etc.."
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By *heOwlMan
over a year ago
Altrincham |
I can't speak for anyone else but, in my case I learnt to keep anything that could be used (wishes, dreams and most importantly emotions) tightly hidden (think of The Wall and one has the idea). A friend reciently described it nicely when he said we all learn't to be emotionally independant and not really need anyone.
Not really what societly likes, as others like to feel needed.
Trouble is that it also makes it rather hard to ask for help when needed, and there have been at least two ocasions where the division between living and not has run a little thin to say the least. I rather suspect that there will be other occasions, but at least today I understand the reasons so might be better prepared. Whether I'd be any better at asking for help - no idea.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Because men bottle things up and feel that they are weak if they speak out that they are depressed. Women (not all) tend to speak out as to how they feel. For men it's a pride thing and often don't want to say anything as they feel that their mates would take the piss and lose this masculinity "
Sorry, but having personal experience with this issue, and having met many men who suffer the same, and have indeed made multiple attempts to reach out and get help and yet continue to struggle, this is a cop out answer that ultimately places the blame on the suffers themselves for not being more effective in addressing their problems. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think that it's simply a question of
Women talk more about everything generally
Men are more guarded especially with feelings
And also they're less likely to seek any kind of medical help for anything
I've spent some years in mental hospitals
I am neither ashamed nor embarrassed to say so and I'm now councilling others to assist in their recovery
And it's never ever ever selfish to want to commit suicide
Most people wanting to, feel too much of a burden on everyone else that they feel that they're doing them a favour by disappearing forever "
This x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Most people wanting to, feel too much of a burden on everyone else that they feel that they're doing them a favour by disappearing forever
This x"
It's possibly the most wretched thing anyone can experience, when your self esteem has fallen so low that not only do you perceive yourself as having no value, worse, you feel as though your life drags down and burdens those around you, and the only thing that keeps you from ending it all is the desire to not hurt the few people who still love you. Ultimately, you find yourself trapped in your painful existence by what's left of the best part of you, the part that still cares and wants to do right by others, in a world that just doesn't seem to want to offer you the same. |
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Research has shown that men and women's brains are indeed wired very differently. Because women's brains show much greater connectivity between the left and right sides this apparently means they are far more able to verbalise (left) their emotions (right), where as men find that connection innately more difficult.
There's a diagram here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-25198063
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just a question to fem's & couples . Would you meet a guy if you knew he had previous mental issues given that you had the choice of several fit men that attracted you "
Honest reply, not if they hadn't dealt with it i wouldn't. I'm just not up for making myself that vulnerable. I have chatted to people on here that are obviously depressed and tbh only you can change your own life and the way you think, with help of course if you want that, but don't expect the average person who doesn't really know you want to help you deal with it.
Otherwise if he had other people to rely on when he needed it then yes i would. Don't like being in the position where someone might take their problems out on me, this can include stalking, becoming obsessive etc and no i don't need that, and yes it has happened and i'm much more wary now.
No offence meant. I have a sister who is ill and i'm always there for her when she needs me and when she doesn't, but she's my sister and i love her and known her most of my life, so obviously i am gonna know how to help her and be some use to her and don't mind her taking up my time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Research has shown that men and women's brains are indeed wired very differently. Because women's brains show much greater connectivity between the left and right sides this apparently means they are far more able to verbalise (left) their emotions (right), where as men find that connection innately more difficult.
There's a diagram here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-25198063
"
Do you know why though? Wiring isn't hard wired, it comes from learned behaviours, so it can change. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There is a large gap between the reality of life and the masculine ideal of what life should and people just can't cope. "
I agree with this, probably more in an expectations way in that when people have expectations and they are let down then they lose a bit of themselves and their own identity.
I'd hate to have to 'man up' if i had emotions i needed to get out and explore and deal with, really would.
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By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
People who commit suicide are more than welcome to it. Just don't take the rest of us down in your pathetic, self-pitying selfishness
Ofcourse, the sympathisers are welcome too to go down with them, if they wish to |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People who commit suicide are more than welcome to it. Just don't take the rest of us down in your pathetic, self-pitying selfishness
Ofcourse, the sympathisers are welcome too to go down with them, if they wish to"
somebody fuck her brains out ffs!  fiesty one you are!  |
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By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
"People who commit suicide are more than welcome to it. Just don't take the rest of us down in your pathetic, self-pitying selfishness
Ofcourse, the sympathisers are welcome too to go down with them, if they wish to somebody fuck her brains out ffs! fiesty one you are! "
Why? you wanted to be on that aircraft; ffs, be my guest |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A big part of it is that it's more social acceptable for a woman to discus problems a man should simply "man up"
Also there is significantly less support for men, a straight, working class white male has pretty much zero support groups available (and make up the biggest section of suicides)
Between the ages of 16 and 25 suicide is the biggest single cause of death in men.
One thing to look at though is the attempts women tend to attempt suicide more than men however they are much less likely to succeed, men tend to chose more violent and assured methods (hanging rather than over dose for example) and also are less likely to communicate thier intentions |
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"Because men bottle things up and feel that they are weak if they speak out that they are depressed. Women (not all) tend to speak out as to how they feel. For men it's a pride thing and often don't want to say anything as they feel that their mates would take the piss and lose this masculinity "
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By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
"A big part of it is that it's more social acceptable for a woman to discus problems a man should simply "man up"
Also there is significantly less support for men, a straight, working class white male has pretty much zero support groups available (and make up the biggest section of suicides)
Between the ages of 16 and 25 suicide is the biggest single cause of death in men.
One thing to look at though is the attempts women tend to attempt suicide more than men however they are much less likely to succeed, men tend to chose more violent and assured methods (hanging rather than over dose for example) and also are less likely to communicate thier intentions"
Totally disagree with you
Women are the ones who pick up the pieces in a crises; we think of rational and logical ways out of a problem. These days, men take the 'gay way' into 'glory'
Agree with you on the methods of suicide though. We plan a suicide where the least number of people will be affected (sleeping pills, slashed wrists in a bathtub) whereas men exit in a more 'drama-queen' manner (jumping in front of a train, taking down 150 innocent people with them on an aircraft, etc) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There are many reasons why someone might decide to take their own life. Through personal experiences I could never conclude it as an act of cowardice or selfishness although I can see why some people might think that way. Some suicides are brought about by physical problems that make life seem unbearable. More often than not, they're mental health issues. Whilst some problems can be helped with a hug and a chat, many cannot. That said. We should reach out to eachother more. Let someone know they're still valued, loved, needed and desired. You might just save their life.
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By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
"There are many reasons why someone might decide to take their own life. Through personal experiences I could never conclude it as an act of cowardice or selfishness although I can see why some people might think that way. Some suicides are brought about by physical problems that make life seem unbearable. More often than not, they're mental health issues. Whilst some problems can be helped with a hug and a chat, many cannot. That said. We should reach out to eachother more. Let someone know they're still valued, loved, needed and desired. You might just save their life.
"
NO. We should lock the lunatics in a cell so that they cannot kill 150 totally innocent people!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The bbc should do a documentary about it to see how deppression and anxiety can lead to suicide they should speak to people off all age ranges and the people should tell them there story on how they feel about it and how its affected them and the people round them , I think its a good idea and it will raise awareness and it may make people step out the dark and into the light , this has probably already been done but I think its a great way to help people , it could save a persons life. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People who commit suicide are more than welcome to it. Just don't take the rest of us down in your pathetic, self-pitying selfishness
Ofcourse, the sympathisers are welcome too to go down with them, if they wish to somebody fuck her brains out ffs! fiesty one you are!
Why? you wanted to be on that aircraft; ffs, be my guest"
after reading about you i wouldn't want to be your guest thanks all the same and if i was on the "aircraft" id hope it hit you miss happy cunt! or maybe not eh?! shouted jump to anyone lately? |
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By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
"People who commit suicide are more than welcome to it. Just don't take the rest of us down in your pathetic, self-pitying selfishness
Ofcourse, the sympathisers are welcome too to go down with them, if they wish to somebody fuck her brains out ffs! fiesty one you are!
Why? you wanted to be on that aircraft; ffs, be my guest after reading about you i wouldn't want to be your guest thanks all the same and if i was on the "aircraft" id hope it hit you miss happy cunt! or maybe not eh?! shouted jump to anyone lately?"
Oh ffs, it was a figure of speech; I am not much into circus dwarfs  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There are many reasons why someone might decide to take their own life. Through personal experiences I could never conclude it as an act of cowardice or selfishness although I can see why some people might think that way. Some suicides are brought about by physical problems that make life seem unbearable. More often than not, they're mental health issues. Whilst some problems can be helped with a hug and a chat, many cannot. That said. We should reach out to eachother more. Let someone know they're still valued, loved, needed and desired. You might just save their life.
NO. We should lock the lunatics in a cell so that they cannot kill 150 totally innocent people!!!"
Really? You're not thinking this through. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A big part of it is that it's more social acceptable for a woman to discus problems a man should simply "man up"
Also there is significantly less support for men, a straight, working class white male has pretty much zero support groups available (and make up the biggest section of suicides)
Between the ages of 16 and 25 suicide is the biggest single cause of death in men.
One thing to look at though is the attempts women tend to attempt suicide more than men however they are much less likely to succeed, men tend to chose more violent and assured methods (hanging rather than over dose for example) and also are less likely to communicate thier intentions
Totally disagree with you
Women are the ones who pick up the pieces in a crises; we think of rational and logical ways out of a problem. These days, men take the 'gay way' into 'glory'
Agree with you on the methods of suicide though. We plan a suicide where the least number of people will be affected (sleeping pills, slashed wrists in a bathtub) whereas men exit in a more 'drama-queen' manner (jumping in front of a train, taking down 150 innocent people with them on an aircraft, etc)"
What exactly do you disagree with?
That there is not a massive shortage of support mechanisms for men, ranging from the "ordinary" man to victims of sexual emotional or physical abuse.
That is is the largest cause of death in the 16 -25 bracket?
I'm not sure what the fuck you're talking about when you say that men who suicide are taking "the gay way into glory".
And the disparity in success has nothing much to do with "drama queenness" or planning women tend to fail because they choose less painful less scary and less successful methods overdose being the highest choice and the lowest success rate.
hanging is the preferred male option and it is almost always effective, even if not quick depending on the drop.
you seem to be making some form.of suicide top trumps here and tbh it's kinda sick
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People who commit suicide are more than welcome to it. Just don't take the rest of us down in your pathetic, self-pitying selfishness
Ofcourse, the sympathisers are welcome too to go down with them, if they wish to somebody fuck her brains out ffs! fiesty one you are!
Why? you wanted to be on that aircraft; ffs, be my guest after reading about you i wouldn't want to be your guest thanks all the same and if i was on the "aircraft" id hope it hit you miss happy cunt! or maybe not eh?! shouted jump to anyone lately?
Oh ffs, it was a figure of speech; I am not much into circus dwarfs "
oh ive seen what your into no worries and im a ex jockey not a dwarf! |
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By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
"There are many reasons why someone might decide to take their own life. Through personal experiences I could never conclude it as an act of cowardice or selfishness although I can see why some people might think that way. Some suicides are brought about by physical problems that make life seem unbearable. More often than not, they're mental health issues. Whilst some problems can be helped with a hug and a chat, many cannot. That said. We should reach out to eachother more. Let someone know they're still valued, loved, needed and desired. You might just save their life.
NO. We should lock the lunatics in a cell so that they cannot kill 150 totally innocent people!!!
Really? You're not thinking this through. "
Lock up (or terminate) one sad, pathetic, lunatic vs. sacrifice 150 worthwhile lives; no brainier! |
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By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
"People who commit suicide are more than welcome to it. Just don't take the rest of us down in your pathetic, self-pitying selfishness
Ofcourse, the sympathisers are welcome too to go down with them, if they wish to somebody fuck her brains out ffs! fiesty one you are!
Why? you wanted to be on that aircraft; ffs, be my guest after reading about you i wouldn't want to be your guest thanks all the same and if i was on the "aircraft" id hope it hit you miss happy cunt! or maybe not eh?! shouted jump to anyone lately?
Oh ffs, it was a figure of speech; I am not much into circus dwarfs oh ive seen what your into no worries and im a ex jockey not a dwarf! "
Good for you, at all of 5'7" and the horses Byeeee |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Lock up (or terminate) one sad, pathetic, lunatic vs. sacrifice 150 worthwhile lives; no brainier!"
How do you decide who to lock up?
What criteria do they have to meet to be considered as dangerous?
There are experts, who have studied mental health and anthropology and neurology for decades and even they aren't psychic enough to know how to do what you're proposing, so if you can answer the above then your argument is valid. |
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By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
"Lock up (or terminate) one sad, pathetic, lunatic vs. sacrifice 150 worthwhile lives; no brainier!
How do you decide who to lock up?
What criteria do they have to meet to be considered as dangerous?
There are experts, who have studied mental health and anthropology and neurology for decades and even they aren't psychic enough to know how to do what you're proposing, so if you can answer the above then your argument is valid."
It is the same argument as the death penalty. How does one know that the one found guilty is really guilty? So, I vote against the death penalty for this reason and this reason alone
But I know one thing for certain; if this sad garbage in the guise of a human [sic] had survived, he should have have put to death in the most painful and prolonged manner. And any tree-hugging lefties can join him for my sympathies are with the 150 innocent women, children and men who were simply going home!!! |
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"Research has shown that men and women's brains are indeed wired very differently. Because women's brains show much greater connectivity between the left and right sides this apparently means they are far more able to verbalise (left) their emotions (right), where as men find that connection innately more difficult.
There's a diagram here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-25198063
Do you know why though? Wiring isn't hard wired,"
It is - that's the point!! The difference is innate, it's nature. You can modify it or confirm it by nurture, of course, but it will always be different. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Lock up (or terminate) one sad, pathetic, lunatic vs. sacrifice 150 worthwhile lives; no brainier!
How do you decide who to lock up?
What criteria do they have to meet to be considered as dangerous?
There are experts, who have studied mental health and anthropology and neurology for decades and even they aren't psychic enough to know how to do what you're proposing, so if you can answer the above then your argument is valid.
It is the same argument as the death penalty. How does one know that the one found guilty is really guilty? So, I vote against the death penalty for this reason and this reason alone
But I know one thing for certain; if this sad garbage in the guise of a human [sic] had survived, he should have have put to death in the most painful and prolonged manner. And any tree-hugging lefties can join him for my sympathies are with the 150 innocent women, children and men who were simply going home!!!"
I don't have any sympathy for him, but no way did anyone guess that he was gonna kill all those people else it wouldn't have happened in the first place.
You can't lock up people before they commit a crime, if you suspect someone of being dangerous (and a professional agrees) then they can be placed somewhere for their own safety and the safety of others. But you can't charge them with anything because they haven't actually done anything, they just might.
Even experts don't know everything and aren't psychic, they just have go off what knowledge they have from others and their own previous experience.
So yes, this is also why we did away with the death penalty, because there's no way to be sure but also because most people agree it is not proper justice to take someone elses life, because we tend to think before we act. The guy flying that plane didn't agree with that, and i'm guessing his crime was based on opportunity more than anything because he took the opportunity to take that plane down when he had it, although it was likely premeditated too but the opportunity hadn't arose before, we don't know though because we aren't him and don't know if he'd had the opportunity before then. Everything is speculation until proved. |
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By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
"Lock up (or terminate) one sad, pathetic, lunatic vs. sacrifice 150 worthwhile lives; no brainier!
How do you decide who to lock up?
What criteria do they have to meet to be considered as dangerous?
There are experts, who have studied mental health and anthropology and neurology for decades and even they aren't psychic enough to know how to do what you're proposing, so if you can answer the above then your argument is valid.
It is the same argument as the death penalty. How does one know that the one found guilty is really guilty? So, I vote against the death penalty for this reason and this reason alone
But I know one thing for certain; if this sad garbage in the guise of a human [sic] had survived, he should have have put to death in the most painful and prolonged manner. And any tree-hugging lefties can join him for my sympathies are with the 150 innocent women, children and men who were simply going home!!!
I don't have any sympathy for him, but no way did anyone guess that he was gonna kill all those people else it wouldn't have happened in the first place.
You can't lock up people before they commit a crime, if you suspect someone of being dangerous (and a professional agrees) then they can be placed somewhere for their own safety and the safety of others. But you can't charge them with anything because they haven't actually done anything, they just might.
Even experts don't know everything and aren't psychic, they just have go off what knowledge they have from others and their own previous experience.
So yes, this is also why we did away with the death penalty, because there's no way to be sure but also because most people agree it is not proper justice to take someone elses life, because we tend to think before we act. The guy flying that plane didn't agree with that, and i'm guessing his crime was based on opportunity more than anything because he took the opportunity to take that plane down when he had it, although it was likely premeditated too but the opportunity hadn't arose before, we don't know though because we aren't him and don't know if he'd had the opportunity before then. Everything is speculation until proved."
Ofcourse everything is speculation. We will now never know since the voice recorder did not pick up anything but the sound of breathing
I guess I am really torn up [humiliated, angry, sorry, ashamed] because he was one of us and I never imagined that we could be like that; apologies, I won't comment on this thread again |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Research has shown that men and women's brains are indeed wired very differently. Because women's brains show much greater connectivity between the left and right sides this apparently means they are far more able to verbalise (left) their emotions (right), where as men find that connection innately more difficult.
There's a diagram here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-25198063
Do you know why though? Wiring isn't hard wired,
It is - that's the point!! The difference is innate, it's nature. You can modify it or confirm it by nurture, of course, but it will always be different."
Actually this an old study, i have studied neurology and had discussions about it years ago, probably be better for me to see what advances have been made since then, something interesting for me to do now lol.
But yeah hormones and a lot of other things affect the brain. But the brain isn't hard wired at all, so the study didn't come to the conclusion then men and women are different because of their make up. All it did was see that mens brains looked different to womens when it came to connections and they're not sure why because like i said the wiring can change through experiences so they do know that experience affect these connections and think might be the reason for them in the first place.
So they don't actually know anything yet. It is a good point to bring up in a debate about why men do something and women are less likely though and could be a valid point with other studies to back it up, i'll go google, not done anything sciencey for ages.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Agree with you on the methods of suicide though. We plan a suicide where the least number of people will be affected (sleeping pills, slashed wrists in a bathtub) whereas men exit in a more 'drama-queen' manner (jumping in front of a train, taking down 150 innocent people with them on an aircraft, etc)"
Can you back up this statement with some evidence? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ofcourse everything is speculation. We will now never know since the voice recorder did not pick up anything but the sound of breathing
I guess I am really torn up [humiliated, angry, sorry, ashamed] because he was one of us and I never imagined that we could be like that; apologies, I won't comment on this thread again"
I'm not here to shame you, just saying it's not possible to do what you were saying. And letting you know that there are people out there trying to prevent this stuff from happening who really are experts and even they can't stop stuff like this from happening.
Debates are never personal, don't take it personal. They are exchanges of information. |
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That pilot didn't commit suicide, there's more going on than that.
But for me its feeling shitty, anxious, like I just fucked up real bad, flat and deflated, unwanted and unwantable, nothing to live for, useless, inevitability of it all. And thinking wise its like the veil has been lifted and you see the truth. But it can effect other thinking, doing stuff often feels like treacle now.
And feeling like crying alot |
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By *heOwlMan
over a year ago
Altrincham |
"People who commit suicide are more than welcome to it. Just don't take the rest of us down in your pathetic, self-pitying selfishness
Ofcourse, the sympathisers are welcome too to go down with them, if they wish to"
Well I must say I am really glad that you have obviously never been depressed in your life, amd I seriously hope that remains the case... |
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By *heOwlMan
over a year ago
Altrincham |
"A big part of it is that it's more social acceptable for a woman to discus problems a man should simply "man up"
Also there is significantly less support for men, a straight, working class white male has pretty much zero support groups available (and make up the biggest section of suicides)
Between the ages of 16 and 25 suicide is the biggest single cause of death in men.
One thing to look at though is the attempts women tend to attempt suicide more than men however they are much less likely to succeed, men tend to chose more violent and assured methods (hanging rather than over dose for example) and also are less likely to communicate thier intentions
Totally disagree with you
Women are the ones who pick up the pieces in a crises; we think of rational and logical ways out of a problem. These days, men take the 'gay way' into 'glory'
Agree with you on the methods of suicide though. We plan a suicide where the least number of people will be affected (sleeping pills, slashed wrists in a bathtub) whereas men exit in a more 'drama-queen' manner (jumping in front of a train, taking down 150 innocent people with them on an aircraft, etc)"
In a wprd, rubish.
Ok there are always exceptions, and perhaps in this instance oit is me or perhaps it is the likes of the pilot - I really havent spent too much time studying other peoples choices in the matter.
However I can say that I my case both times I have wanter to pull the plug I have spent a very long time thinking through the available methods, looking foe one that wold behighly effective - no way I would wish to f that up - and whish would cause the least impact on others. In both cases ultimately it was the impact on others that just outweighed my wish to no longer be here. |
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By *heOwlMan
over a year ago
Altrincham |
"Most people wanting to, feel too much of a burden on everyone else that they feel that they're doing them a favour by disappearing forever
This x
It's possibly the most wretched thing anyone can experience, when your self esteem has fallen so low that not only do you perceive yourself as having no value, worse, you feel as though your life drags down and burdens those around you, and the only thing that keeps you from ending it all is the desire to not hurt the few people who still love you. Ultimately, you find yourself trapped in your painful existence by what's left of the best part of you, the part that still cares and wants to do right by others, in a world that just doesn't seem to want to offer you the same."
So very true |
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6 years ago someone I shared my life I with committed suicid.he went out one day and never returned was found a week later in the river. After years of depression he had succeeded. Once a mental health worker told me that once ur in that mind set that's it. I do sometimes think did he have regrets when he hit the water and it was too late???
As for been selfish I think to commit suicide u have to have some balls and courage to commit such a act. But on the other hand they don't know what consequence and devastation they leave behind.xx |
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"Because men bottle things up and feel that they are weak if they speak out that they are depressed. Women (not all) tend to speak out as to how they feel. For men it's a pride thing and often don't want to say anything as they feel that their mates would take the piss and lose this masculinity
Sorry, but having personal experience with this issue, and having met many men who suffer the same, and have indeed made multiple attempts to reach out and get help and yet continue to struggle, this is a cop out answer that ultimately places the blame on the suffers themselves for not being more effective in addressing their problems."
It is not a cop out answer and no where am I placing the blame on the sufferer stop twisting what I say. I've worked with many men for many years who have attempted to take their own life and some have succeeded so I too have had personal and professional experience with dealing with suicide. I've also found a victim of suicide. |
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By *heOwlMan
over a year ago
Altrincham |
"That pilot didn't commit suicide, there's more going on than that.
But for me its feeling shitty, anxious, like I just fucked up real bad, flat and deflated, unwanted and unwantable, nothing to live for, useless, inevitability of it all. And thinking wise its like the veil has been lifted and you see the truth. But it can effect other thinking, doing stuff often feels like treacle now.
And feeling like crying alot"
Yup.
I wish there was something I could say that would help, but though I understand, I am probably not the best person to help.
I do hope that you either manage to find a way through, or that something presents itself that help (it does happen - in my case I found a rowing club and concentrating on the technique stopped me from thinking of anything else, giving me a couple of hour reprieve from my own head)
It may not feel like it but things can and will get better. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A high number of the men that end up tragically taking there life's, ex or serving servicemen from all the services but mainly soldiers who after returning from ops do not get the help they need. Mental health issues are still regarded as an illness that will stop you career within the forces, which is wrong!!! But it's a reality that happens
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"A high number of the men that end up tragically taking there life's, ex or serving servicemen from all the services but mainly soldiers who after returning from ops do not get the help they need. Mental health issues are still regarded as an illness that will stop you career within the forces, which is wrong!!! But it's a reality that happens
"
It's getting better within the armed forces and treating mental health to serving soldiers. However I agree a lot more can be done |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Because men bottle things up and feel that they are weak if they speak out that they are depressed. Women (not all) tend to speak out as to how they feel. For men it's a pride thing and often don't want to say anything as they feel that their mates would take the piss and lose this masculinity "
I think this is right , my cousin did it he was a jack the lad you would never have expected it . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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At that age 45+ usually the marriage is over and the man is stuck with huge divorce bills and alimony ...usually the woman gets the house and carrys on normally whIle the man's life is basically over .....there you go |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Imho men normally have more worries. All my wife needs to worry about is getting the kids to school on time. She gets up, and there's electric in the sockets, gas in the pipes, water in the taps, sky on the box, food in the fridge, and all the while no sign of a bailiff to sling us out. Then there's petrol in the shiny new car, no fear passing anpr cams as it's taxed tested and insured. She throws what she wants in the trolley at the supermarket, browses holidays on her iPhone, all in a blissful bubble, meanwhile I have all the headache and worry of paying for it all  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I really hope the two posts above mine are trying to be funny. Otherwise I pity you both for how deluded you sound, and that you have not realised it's 2015 rather than 1956. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A big part of it is that it's more social acceptable for a woman to discus problems a man should simply "man up"
Also there is significantly less support for men, a straight, working class white male has pretty much zero support groups available (and make up the biggest section of suicides)
Between the ages of 16 and 25 suicide is the biggest single cause of death in men.
One thing to look at though is the attempts women tend to attempt suicide more than men however they are much less likely to succeed, men tend to chose more violent and assured methods (hanging rather than over dose for example) and also are less likely to communicate thier intentions
Totally disagree with you
Women are the ones who pick up the pieces in a crises; we think of rational and logical ways out of a problem. These days, men take the 'gay way' into 'glory'
Agree with you on the methods of suicide though. We plan a suicide where the least number of people will be affected (sleeping pills, slashed wrists in a bathtub) whereas men exit in a more 'drama-queen' manner (jumping in front of a train, taking down 150 innocent people with them on an aircraft, etc)"
WOW! the waves of Hatred fo men just knocked my Coffee Cup off the Desk 
This may be one part of the reason why Men tend to be more introverted about their thoughts..The dislike of Ridicule and vitriotic attacks by "The Superior" Female species
Gimp |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"At that age 45+ usually the marriage is over and the man is stuck with huge divorce bills and alimony ...usually the woman gets the house and carrys on normally whIle the man's life is basically over .....there you go"
This is the uk there is no such thing as alimony |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think that there are two questions here.
Do men attempt suicide more than women
and
Why are men more likely to die from the attempt
Men are more likely to die from an attempt because of their chosen method, which if normally more brutal .. like jumping in front of a train or off a bridge.
I used to be a samaritan and heard many different reasons why people want to take their own lives, even heard a few die while on the phone to them.
The only common thing with all, was that they believed that it was their only way out of a situation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Not trying to be funny at all, it was an honest opinion. My wife floats around in a bubble. She has no care in the world. I only have one worry, and that's money. I know there's plenty of women in the same boat, but I'd be surprised if the rate combined for both men and women, was less than 80% down to money worries |
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"Not trying to be funny at all, it was an honest opinion. My wife floats around in a bubble. She has no care in the world. I only have one worry, and that's money. I know there's plenty of women in the same boat, but I'd be surprised if the rate combined for both men and women, was less than 80% down to money worries "
Have you tried speaking with her you sound resentful that you are providing all of the above to her |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Not trying to be funny at all, it was an honest opinion. My wife floats around in a bubble. She has no care in the world. I only have one worry, and that's money. I know there's plenty of women in the same boat, but I'd be surprised if the rate combined for both men and women, was less than 80% down to money worries "
Why is she your wife then, since you don't sound as though you like her very much? Of my female friends, at least half are the main breadwinner. In the most part they are about equal. We certainly don't float around in little bubbles of fluff and shoes and handbags, we are equal partners in our relationships with all that entails. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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She could get a job, but with childcare we'd be no better off. No resentment, I'm the bread winner and that's the way it is for the vast majority. Like they say, one swallow doesn't make a summer. And by that I mean, just because you know a few women that are the breadwinners, it's a minority |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"She could get a job, but with childcare we'd be no better off. No resentment, I'm the bread winner and that's the way it is for the vast majority. Like they say, one swallow doesn't make a summer. And by that I mean, just because you know a few women that are the breadwinners, it's a minority "
You should probably discuss your worries with her though. Even if you're the main earner, surely it's about your life together.
It's not all about pure money either, it was the suggestion that women don't have to care or worry their pretty little heads about such things. I earn less than my husband but I still worry about money, pay a lot of the bills, get involved with our finances and would support him if we needed it.
Your description is incredibly outdated and outmoded and to be honest quite offensive as well in this day and age - it's not just that I know 'a few people'. That 'a few people' is pretty much all of my friends, family and colleagues, in fact my entire social circle. Even 30 years ago, my mum didn't work when my siblings and I were young. My dad was always the breadwinner. The suggestion that she didn't have any involvement in anything to do with money or how to pay for their life together is ridiculous. |
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"Research has shown that men and women's brains are indeed wired very differently. Because women's brains show much greater connectivity between the left and right sides this apparently means they are far more able to verbalise (left) their emotions (right), where as men find that connection innately more difficult.
There's a diagram here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-25198063
Do you know why though? Wiring isn't hard wired,
It is - that's the point!! The difference is innate, it's nature. You can modify it or confirm it by nurture, of course, but it will always be different.
Actually this an old study, i have studied neurology and had discussions about it years ago, probably be better for me to see what advances have been made since then, something interesting for me to do now lol.
But yeah hormones and a lot of other things affect the brain. But the brain isn't hard wired at all, so the study didn't come to the conclusion then men and women are different because of their make up. All it did was see that mens brains looked different to womens when it came to connections and they're not sure why because like i said the wiring can change through experiences so they do know that experience affect these connections and think might be the reason for them in the first place.
So they don't actually know anything yet. It is a good point to bring up in a debate about why men do something and women are less likely though and could be a valid point with other studies to back it up, i'll go google, not done anything sciencey for ages.
"
Do, and let me know. Basically I will say from my life experience my opinion is that they are indeed hard wired differently. I actually have quite a 'male' brain - I am very logical, have a brilliant sense of direction, read maps, parallel park, can have nsa sex with hot tottie.... yada, yada, yada.
And yet at times I still find men to be totally 'other' in the way they think. Women are much more relationally oriented, men are far more topical - the same 'fact' often means entirely different things to the two sexes.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"People who commit suicide are more than welcome to it. Just don't take the rest of us down in your pathetic, self-pitying selfishness
Ofcourse, the sympathisers are welcome too to go down with them, if they wish to"
Appalling comment
I am not ashamed to say I've attempted suicide several times. The reasons why are complex: in my case the underlying cause was being the victim of sexual abuse at the hands of my mother, aged eight. Matt
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's all about the circles we move in I suppose. For us and everyone we know it's how our lives work. Your circles are different to mine. I was brought up in the same environment too. And just because a comment offends, it doesn't make it offensive |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Research has shown that men and women's brains are indeed wired very differently. Because women's brains show much greater connectivity between the left and right sides this apparently means they are far more able to verbalise (left) their emotions (right), where as men find that connection innately more difficult.
There's a diagram here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-25198063
Do you know why though? Wiring isn't hard wired,
It is - that's the point!! The difference is innate, it's nature. You can modify it or confirm it by nurture, of course, but it will always be different.
Actually this an old study, i have studied neurology and had discussions about it years ago, probably be better for me to see what advances have been made since then, something interesting for me to do now lol.
But yeah hormones and a lot of other things affect the brain. But the brain isn't hard wired at all, so the study didn't come to the conclusion then men and women are different because of their make up. All it did was see that mens brains looked different to womens when it came to connections and they're not sure why because like i said the wiring can change through experiences so they do know that experience affect these connections and think might be the reason for them in the first place.
So they don't actually know anything yet. It is a good point to bring up in a debate about why men do something and women are less likely though and could be a valid point with other studies to back it up, i'll go google, not done anything sciencey for ages.
Do, and let me know. Basically I will say from my life experience my opinion is that they are indeed hard wired differently. I actually have quite a 'male' brain - I am very logical, have a brilliant sense of direction, read maps, parallel park, can have nsa sex with hot tottie.... yada, yada, yada.
And yet at times I still find men to be totally 'other' in the way they think. Women are much more relationally oriented, men are far more topical - the same 'fact' often means entirely different things to the two sexes.
"
Had an interesting read about Professor Dick Swaab, he holds some good theories and claims to have found that transvestites are wired the same as the opposite sex, he also claims that it happens because our brains develop at a different time as out genitals in the womb and it's hormones in the womb that cause this. It's not proved, apart from the wiring like in your example, there's a lot more to research yet.
He also holds some strange theories as well though about what causes people to be gay that could be taken as offensive, but science often holds offensive views at times. Can depend why the person is doing the research. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's all about the circles we move in I suppose. For us and everyone we know it's how our lives work. Your circles are different to mine. I was brought up in the same environment too. And just because a comment offends, it doesn't make it offensive "
I actually wasn't offended, because my reality is completely different from your description. That doesn't mean it's not an offensive generalisation about women.
I'm glad I live and work in my circles, not yours. And I think mine is much closer to the norm, but I'll leave you to it, because it sounds like a shitty situation to be in. |
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A lot of men have limited support from others, outside of relationships and often don't discuss emotional stuff with peers. There's also major pressure to 'man up', which is dehumanizing. So society puts pressure on men to struggle alone.
Men's health is generally more poorly supported, as they often don't pursue help until too late. Lots of harsh pressures and long standing prejudices is not good for guys. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Because men bottle things up and feel that they are weak if they speak out that they are depressed. Women (not all) tend to speak out as to how they feel. For men it's a pride thing and often don't want to say anything as they feel that their mates would take the piss and lose this masculinity o
Their not this. Also men often don't want to burden others with their issues and don't want their family to worry often taking the whole world on their shoulders which for anyone has its breaking points and often they feel that suicide is the only way out as then the family will not have to deal with the problems such as debt etc.."
Another factor is that men tend to (and this is a generalisation) select more 'effective' methods of suicide: jumping, shotgun, hanging etc. These leave no opportunity for 'opting out' when the suicide attempt has been impulsively taken. So, so sad. And for anybody who says suicide is selfish: imagine the agony a person must be experiencing that the best alternative is to feel nothing, forever. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Been to 14 suicide funerals, 13 male and 1 female.
Also for just under 2 years I was a crime, trauma and biohazard engineer (technical term!) basically cleaned up nasty things. With regards to suicides there were way more males than females but I found that women were tidier. If they chose to overdose and slit their wrists, women tended to do it in the bathroom or bedroom and stay in one place whereas men would walk all over the house in every room getting blood everywhere all up walls which to me suggested that they were panicking and distressed. A woman staying in one place suggested to me that she'd thought about it and thought about it and had accepted what she was gonna do and just died calmly.
Hanging was the most popular way round where I live and even then there was a mess especially if they weren't discovered for a few days. |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
I am once again surprised at the number of generalisations and sweeping statements about what men do/ don't do and how women pick up the pieces to quote just one statement.
Suicide is way more complex than this; it can be connected to mental health but not necessarily so. Men tend to struggle more talking about it but this is not always the case as it depends on the kind of upbringing the had and the support they have at the time of suicidal ideation.
I do not subscribe to the notion that suicide is selfish as selfish to me implies the deliberate act to harm others beside oneself.
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"Because men bottle things up and feel that they are weak if they speak out that they are depressed. Women (not all) tend to speak out as to how they feel. For men it's a pride thing and often don't want to say anything as they feel that their mates would take the piss and lose this masculinity
well im certainly not like that ..were not all the same ."
I was making a general comment most men won't talk, yet you hear of women coming back from lunch or a coffee meeting and finding out so much that is going on with their friends. As someone pointed out the majority of blokes only talk when they have had a few pints, I know of some men who won't go to the Dr's when they have something wrong with them. We really do need to opeN up more to the right people (I know I am guilty of this once or twice). |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"There are many reasons why someone might decide to take their own life. Through personal experiences I could never conclude it as an act of cowardice or selfishness although I can see why some people might think that way. Some suicides are brought about by physical problems that make life seem unbearable. More often than not, they're mental health issues. Whilst some problems can be helped with a hug and a chat, many cannot. That said. We should reach out to eachother more. Let someone know they're still valued, loved, needed and desired. You might just save their life.
NO. We should lock the lunatics in a cell so that they cannot kill 150 totally innocent people!!!"
Not all of us attempt to or take the lives of others when we are suicidal. On your assertion I am a lunatic and should have been locked up from the age of 10 - just in case.
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"6 years ago someone I shared my life I with committed suicid.he went out one day and never returned was found a week later in the river. After years of depression he had succeeded. Once a mental health worker told me that once ur in that mind set that's it. I do sometimes think did he have regrets when he hit the water and it was too late???
As for been selfish I think to commit suicide u have to have some balls and courage to commit such a act. But on the other hand they don't know what consequence and devastation they leave behind.xx"
We do when we are well but when we are suicidal none of that matters. Someone above wrote that the suicidal aren't trying to die but to end the pain. I understand that - death is the one certain way to ensure the pain never returns.
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By *umourCouple
over a year ago
Rushden |
I have read a lot on here that suicide is not selfish. I see the aftermath regularly. Here is just one case..
I work for a charity and I had to go to a house to look at some things they wanted to donate to us. On arrival, the door was opened by an attractive 30 something. In the room directly in front of me were two young girls, about 11 and 13 I would say.
I knew it was a bereavement and I knew it was the father. What I didn't know was that he had taken his own life. As part of the process, we talk about the person who has passed on and try to do a little to comfort those left behind.
It became evident that this family were torn apart by the actions of this man! The children were angry and at the mention of their dads name, looked daggers at their mum! It was as if they blamed her for what had happened, although as I understand it, she had gone above and beyond...
She did tell me that no matter how hard you try to keep an eye on someone, there are always times when you have to go for a short while and she had to go to the toilet one day when no one else was around to look out for him.. She didn't know that this was the day when she should have held on...
She is still distraught, two years later and the kids are quiet and withdrawn around others. They can't understand why their dad didn't want to be with them any more and why they were just not good enough to hold him here.. No amount of kind words will heal them.
So, don't tell me suicide is not selfish. That does a disservice to those who loved and lost... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Rumour- of course it can be viewed as selfish but I can assure you -as someone who has been in that state of mind- that you feel utterly trapped by your own mind and nothing external can penetrate that.
You can only hope that you have the mental strength to hold it off but come the day the will to survive isn't enough you sink. I never attempted to but stood at the cross roads as to weather I should or not and it haunts me to this day. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I have read a lot on here that suicide is not selfish. I see the aftermath regularly. Here is just one case..
I work for a charity and I had to go to a house to look at some things they wanted to donate to us. On arrival, the door was opened by an attractive 30 something. In the room directly in front of me were two young girls, about 11 and 13 I would say.
I knew it was a bereavement and I knew it was the father. What I didn't know was that he had taken his own life. As part of the process, we talk about the person who has passed on and try to do a little to comfort those left behind.
It became evident that this family were torn apart by the actions of this man! The children were angry and at the mention of their dads name, looked daggers at their mum! It was as if they blamed her for what had happened, although as I understand it, she had gone above and beyond...
She did tell me that no matter how hard you try to keep an eye on someone, there are always times when you have to go for a short while and she had to go to the toilet one day when no one else was around to look out for him.. She didn't know that this was the day when she should have held on...
She is still distraught, two years later and the kids are quiet and withdrawn around others. They can't understand why their dad didn't want to be with them any more and why they were just not good enough to hold him here.. No amount of kind words will heal them.
So, don't tell me suicide is not selfish. That does a disservice to those who loved and lost..."
The devastation left behind is real - I understand that from my work, from the loss of friends and from the words of my nearest and dearest when I have tried to end it all. When I am well I can see that it looks selfish and leaves pain for others.
All I can say is that when it's THAT bad selfish isn't what you feel. I have genuinely felt that life would be better for all those who know me if I no longer existed. I have genuinely felt that I would be doing them a favour by allowing them to get on with their lives and not have to look after me. It feels selfless in that sense. The selfish bit is that any action to end the pain is better than living with the pain.
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By *umourCouple
over a year ago
Rushden |
I am not talking about the person sitting there and thinking that they want to do this for them! The consequences for those left behind make it a selfish act, even if that is not the intention!I have been to four suicides in the last six months and for those left behind, this action is selfish!
Believe me, I know what it feels like to feel that everything is hopeless, I have been lucky I guess, but dealing with the aftermath is very traumatic for me, but also therapeutic. It reminds me just how lucky I am to have been steered away from that path before I had walked too far |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am not talking about the person sitting there and thinking that they want to do this for them! The consequences for those left behind make it a selfish act, even if that is not the intention!I have been to four suicides in the last six months and for those left behind, this action is selfish!
Believe me, I know what it feels like to feel that everything is hopeless, I have been lucky I guess, but dealing with the aftermath is very traumatic for me, but also therapeutic. It reminds me just how lucky I am to have been steered away from that path before I had walked too far "
I'd say it's quite selfish expecting someone to live through such agony just so you don't have to feel grief at their passing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It took me months to gather enough strength to talk to my other half about how I was feeling. Explained that I thought something was wrong and I didn't know what to do. That I'd been feeling very down and couldn't shift it. She told me to "Man up!" Then launched into a scathing monologue about depression being a load of rubbish and should just cheer up and get on with it.
Two months later I had a complete break down. I lost a year of my life and nearly two years to get anywhere near better. Suicide was a very real option for me at several points. The Samaritans are there for all of us and made a huge impact on me. I'm here because some strangers wanted to help, for no other reason than being kind. They gave me the hug I needed when I needed it most. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"It took me months to gather enough strength to talk to my other half about how I was feeling. Explained that I thought something was wrong and I didn't know what to do. That I'd been feeling very down and couldn't shift it. She told me to "Man up!" Then launched into a scathing monologue about depression being a load of rubbish and should just cheer up and get on with it.
Two months later I had a complete break down. I lost a year of my life and nearly two years to get anywhere near better. Suicide was a very real option for me at several points. The Samaritans are there for all of us and made a huge impact on me. I'm here because some strangers wanted to help, for no other reason than being kind. They gave me the hug I needed when I needed it most. "
I hope you continue to feel well for many years to come.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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That's a harsh criticism, and compounds the reason sometimes men won't speak out.
I'm Thinking of giving them a ring - not suicidal but totally burnt out and don't want to talk to people I know |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My cousin committed suicide, it'll be 10 years ago in July.
She left behind a 2 year old little boy and even left a note for him.
She'd suffered for years with depression and anxiety and then post natal depression on top.
She'd been in and out of many hospitals, was regularly attending counselling and group therapy sessions, she had a huge support network from her family and was getting the help she needed, yet she still made the decision to end her life.
I personally think suicide is selfish, that's my opinion. I saw the devastation it caused. Her own mother found her dead in her bed after taking pills and alcohol. Her little boy grew up not really knowing his mother and will be told one day that she killed herself, the trauma of hearing that would be horrific.
If she'd persevered with the help she was getting I believe she'd still be here but she gave up and didn't contemplate the aftermath or consequences of her actions, therefore I believe it was a selfish act. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That's a harsh criticism, and compounds the reason sometimes men won't speak out.
I'm Thinking of giving them a ring - not suicidal but totally burnt out and don't want to talk to people I know"
Phoning them restored my faith in being human. Knowing they'd listen no matter what. They don't judge they just listen. The only thing they want is for you a complete stranger they'll never meet is to feel better than when you dialed.
Phone them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It took me months to gather enough strength to talk to my other half about how I was feeling. Explained that I thought something was wrong and I didn't know what to do. That I'd been feeling very down and couldn't shift it. She told me to "Man up!" Then launched into a scathing monologue about depression being a load of rubbish and should just cheer up and get on with it.
Two months later I had a complete break down. I lost a year of my life and nearly two years to get anywhere near better. Suicide was a very real option for me at several points. The Samaritans are there for all of us and made a huge impact on me. I'm here because some strangers wanted to help, for no other reason than being kind. They gave me the hug I needed when I needed it most.
I hope you continue to feel well for many years to come.
"
Thank you xx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The suicides that happened here were just fucked up, the people were selfish at one point in 4 weeks there had been 7 suicides and the people that done it had been attended the funerals then killed themselves that day or the next day.
I'm from bridgend and knew a lot of people who took their own lives. Plus I've worked around death so kind of numb to it. It's got to the point here where it's like another one, oh well. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That's a harsh criticism, and compounds the reason sometimes men won't speak out.
I'm Thinking of giving them a ring - not suicidal but totally burnt out and don't want to talk to people I know"
Talk, don't bottle it up. Please talk to someone, as some who has worked in mental health... Give me a try, I'm a stranger, sometimes it's just who you need. Do not suffer in silence, there is no need!! Hope to hear from you! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The suicides that happened here were just fucked up, the people were selfish at one point in 4 weeks there had been 7 suicides and the people that done it had been attended the funerals then killed themselves that day or the next day. A pact perhaps??..
Bizarre and so sad!
I'm from bridgend and knew a lot of people who took their own lives. Plus I've worked around death so kind of numb to it. It's got to the point here where it's like another one, oh well. "
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By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
"...
NO. We should lock the lunatics in a cell so that they cannot kill 150 totally innocent people!!!
Not all of us attempt to or take the lives of others when we are suicidal. On your assertion I am a lunatic and should have been locked up from the age of 10 - just in case.
"
My comment is about the selfish pilot of the German Wings aircraft who killed 150 innocent people
Are you you that German pilot? If so, then you know what my opinion is
If not, then I have no opinion about you as I do not know you and your choices are your business, not mine |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"...
NO. We should lock the lunatics in a cell so that they cannot kill 150 totally innocent people!!!
Not all of us attempt to or take the lives of others when we are suicidal. On your assertion I am a lunatic and should have been locked up from the age of 10 - just in case.
My comment is about the selfish pilot of the German Wings aircraft who killed 150 innocent people
Are you you that German pilot? If so, then you know what my opinion is
If not, then I have no opinion about you as I do not know you and your choices are your business, not mine"
He wasn't any of your business either. As has been pointed out, which of us suicidal people will you lock up when we haven't done anything? On your comments I'm just as much a lunatic as he was before he crashed the plane.
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By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
"...
NO. We should lock the lunatics in a cell so that they cannot kill 150 totally innocent people!!!
Not all of us attempt to or take the lives of others when we are suicidal. On your assertion I am a lunatic and should have been locked up from the age of 10 - just in case.
My comment is about the selfish pilot of the German Wings aircraft who killed 150 innocent people
Are you you that German pilot? If so, then you know what my opinion is
If not, then I have no opinion about you as I do not know you and your choices are your business, not mine
He wasn't any of your business either. As has been pointed out, which of us suicidal people will you lock up when we haven't done anything? On your comments I'm just as much a lunatic as he was before he crashed the plane.
"
My comment was about him. He is my business; you don't know anything about me or about who was travelling on that flight
What you do or what you are is your business as long as it does not affect me or my family
Now leave it at that |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"My cousin committed suicide, it'll be 10 years ago in July.
She left behind a 2 year old little boy and even left a note for him.
She'd suffered for years with depression and anxiety and then post natal depression on top.
She'd been in and out of many hospitals, was regularly attending counselling and group therapy sessions, she had a huge support network from her family and was getting the help she needed, yet she still made the decision to end her life.
I personally think suicide is selfish, that's my opinion. I saw the devastation it caused. Her own mother found her dead in her bed after taking pills and alcohol. Her little boy grew up not really knowing his mother and will be told one day that she killed herself, the trauma of hearing that would be horrific.
If she'd persevered with the help she was getting I believe she'd still be here but she gave up and didn't contemplate the aftermath or consequences of her actions, therefore I believe it was a selfish act."
I know it seems incomprehensible as she left you all to pick up the pieces. I've been involved with Post Natal Depression support groups and spoken to a couple of ladies who had postnatal psychosis as well. It really can take you to the darkest place. Depression alone will unknowingly make you selfish , as you can't focus on the feelings of others. It's not out of choice though , it's the nature of the beast. I wish there was more out there to help mothers with post natal depression, as there is nowhere near enough. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"That's a harsh criticism, and compounds the reason sometimes men won't speak out.
I'm Thinking of giving them a ring - not suicidal but totally burnt out and don't want to talk to people I know
Talk, don't bottle it up. Please talk to someone, as some who has worked in mental health... Give me a try, I'm a stranger, sometimes it's just who you need. Do not suffer in silence, there is no need!! Hope to hear from you! "
if you didn't call them I hope you do. The Samaritans do a fantastic job and it can really help. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wonder how young it starts tho..This is something I been thinking about a lot recently.
My daughter went on a brownie holiday. .One of the girls was homesick and crying. The other girls pulled together, gave her a hug and made sure she wasn't on her own.
My son went on a cub camp. One of the boys was homesick and crying. The other boys ignored him and carried on with what they were doing.
This really upset me. My son and daughter come from a loving open home full of hugs and we talk about feelings. I know a lot of those other cubs come from lovely homes.
Who has taught little boys that it is ok to ignore someone who is upset? Who has taught little girls that someone upset needs someone to talk to?
It's like it is an innate reaction even at that early age. It upset me so much. There is no hope for young men in our society when 7yr old boys react like that
"
That's really sad. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There are many reasons why someone might decide to take their own life. Through personal experiences I could never conclude it as an act of cowardice or selfishness although I can see why some people might think that way. Some suicides are brought about by physical problems that make life seem unbearable. More often than not, they're mental health issues. Whilst some problems can be helped with a hug and a chat, many cannot. That said. We should reach out to eachother more. Let someone know they're still valued, loved, needed and desired. You might just save their life.
NO. We should lock the lunatics in a cell so that they cannot kill 150 totally innocent people!!!
Not all of us attempt to or take the lives of others when we are suicidal. On your assertion I am a lunatic and should have been locked up from the age of 10 - just in case.
"
We can share a cell if you like ^_^ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wonder how young it starts tho..This is something I been thinking about a lot recently.
My daughter went on a brownie holiday. .One of the girls was homesick and crying. The other girls pulled together, gave her a hug and made sure she wasn't on her own.
My son went on a cub camp. One of the boys was homesick and crying. The other boys ignored him and carried on with what they were doing.
This really upset me. My son and daughter come from a loving open home full of hugs and we talk about feelings. I know a lot of those other cubs come from lovely homes.
Who has taught little boys that it is ok to ignore someone who is upset? Who has taught little girls that someone upset needs someone to talk to?
It's like it is an innate reaction even at that early age. It upset me so much. There is no hope for young men in our society when 7yr old boys react like that
That's really sad. "
I think part of it might be treating others how we like to be treated, I know when I was younger if I was feeling like that everyone rallying round being all touchy feel would have kinda made me feel worse like I was a burden or problem that needed to be solved.
So I can see why young lads leave each other to deal with stuff like that on their own because it's what's they'd want to.
Youth is wasted on the young lol. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"My cousin committed suicide, it'll be 10 years ago in July.
She left behind a 2 year old little boy and even left a note for him.
She'd suffered for years with depression and anxiety and then post natal depression on top.
She'd been in and out of many hospitals, was regularly attending counselling and group therapy sessions, she had a huge support network from her family and was getting the help she needed, yet she still made the decision to end her life.
I personally think suicide is selfish, that's my opinion. I saw the devastation it caused. Her own mother found her dead in her bed after taking pills and alcohol. Her little boy grew up not really knowing his mother and will be told one day that she killed herself, the trauma of hearing that would be horrific.
If she'd persevered with the help she was getting I believe she'd still be here but she gave up and didn't contemplate the aftermath or consequences of her actions, therefore I believe it was a selfish act.
I know it seems incomprehensible as she left you all to pick up the pieces. I've been involved with Post Natal Depression support groups and spoken to a couple of ladies who had postnatal psychosis as well. It really can take you to the darkest place. Depression alone will unknowingly make you selfish , as you can't focus on the feelings of others. It's not out of choice though , it's the nature of the beast. I wish there was more out there to help mothers with post natal depression, as there is nowhere near enough. "
I've lived around depression pretty much all my life, seen my mum and sister suffer on and off as well as the issues with my cousin.
I understand that because of their illness they sometimes struggle to comprehend what else is going on around them. It's like they are in their own bubble at times.
However in my cousins case she knew exactly what she was doing, she lied to her mum in order to have the time to carry it out.
It was completely pre-meditated and planned. When her mum didn't hear from her as she expected she got worried, she went to her house and could see her keys and bag on the coffee table through the window but she didn't answer the door. She decided to let herself in with the spare key knowing something was wrong and found her dead.
Maybe it isn't right to label every single suicide act as selfish but in this particular situation I believe my cousin was very selfish.
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"...
NO. We should lock the lunatics in a cell so that they cannot kill 150 totally innocent people!!!
Not all of us attempt to or take the lives of others when we are suicidal. On your assertion I am a lunatic and should have been locked up from the age of 10 - just in case.
My comment is about the selfish pilot of the German Wings aircraft who killed 150 innocent people
Are you you that German pilot? If so, then you know what my opinion is
If not, then I have no opinion about you as I do not know you and your choices are your business, not mine
He wasn't any of your business either. As has been pointed out, which of us suicidal people will you lock up when we haven't done anything?
"
This |
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By *umourCouple
over a year ago
Rushden |
"I am not talking about the person sitting there and thinking that they want to do this for them! The consequences for those left behind make it a selfish act, even if that is not the intention!I have been to four suicides in the last six months and for those left behind, this action is selfish!
Believe me, I know what it feels like to feel that everything is hopeless, I have been lucky I guess, but dealing with the aftermath is very traumatic for me, but also therapeutic. It reminds me just how lucky I am to have been steered away from that path before I had walked too far
I'd say it's quite selfish expecting someone to live through such agony just so you don't have to feel grief at their passing."
Perhaps you should read the post again, instead of jumping to conclusions! I tried to point out that maybe the people are not doing it with selfish thoughts, but the very nature of the beast makes it a selfish act!
I never said they should live through anything, your take not mine! I don't think they have to live through any agony once they seek help. Yes it is a long road, but it is do-able. Not everyone will feel able to take the road I took, it is not right for everyone. But seeking help is the sensible thing to do, it is just that when under such stress, sensible is not always an option |
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"People who commit suicide are more than welcome to it. Just don't take the rest of us down in your pathetic, self-pitying selfishness
Ofcourse, the sympathisers are welcome too to go down with them, if they wish to"
Simply unkind comment
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Suicide does seem like the cowards way out, from an outsiders point of view. Imagine for a second how bad the person is to even think about killing themselves, I can't imagine being in that position.
As for living with the aftermath of It, I only know the heartache and pain coming from people who have died naturally, I can't begin to comprehend the devastation left behind due to it happening. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Suicide - why is it higher in men than women?
Because of women !!  "
Crass and already covered a couple of times on here.
People being in pain, killing themselves, upsetting friends and families is just not funny to me.
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
"Suicide - why is it higher in men than women?
Because of women !!
Crass and already covered a couple of times on here.
People being in pain, killing themselves, upsetting friends and families is just not funny to me.
"
Once again, this! |
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