FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Firing squad

Firing squad

By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

The very successful work of Reprieve, under the interesting Clive Stafford Smith, means that US states with the death penalty are finding it difficult to get hold of lethal injections.

Utah is planning to introduce death by firing squad. They are saying it will be more humane too.

I'm against the death penalty but what are your thoughts on the humanity of death by firing squad?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

Humanity and death by firing squad do not belong in the same sentence.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *udistnorthantsMan over a year ago

Desborough

Having read the biography on Albert Pierrepoint, the most humane way is Hanging

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

'Humane Execution'

Another one of my top ten oxymorons.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Is there a humane way of executing someone ?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Death by lethal injection is not as humane as it sounds

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In terms of speed and accuracy, it could be argued that it's more humane. I'm not sure about the impact on the executors.

Given that I don't believe in the death penalty, I'm not sure any means of the state ending a life deliberately deserves to be described as humane.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Humanity and death by firing squad do not belong in the same sentence."

If find capital punishment in whatever way it is administered barbaric. It has proved to be no deterrent in the US given their crime stats so what does it achieve?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

I think that if a society has arrived at a point where the death sentence is carried out then the most humane method should be used. If it were to be me being killed I would prefer firing squad to stoning but I don't consider either of these things could be carried out with any humanity.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

[Removed by poster at 24/03/15 08:22:22]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If Americas record is anything to go by, the death penalty doesn't seem to reduce crime because their prisons are full and there's a queue in death row.

Having said that, I'm in favour of it - at least it's one less to contend with, sadly there are probably ten waiting to take his/her place.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *isexmistressWoman over a year ago

Prestwich

If we assume the penalty has passed for some truly atrocious crime,has been appealed ,turned down etc etc etc.. then I have no problem with it..

Get on with it and get on to the next one I say.

Most of these on death row chappies have no conscience or soul and there are far more people in the justice system deserving of our time and attention.

The only exception id make to the death penalty is where someone protests their innocence,possibly a wrong conviction scenario..

If its beyond doubt and they have admitted it,no problem..

We are too soft on baddies

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Taking someone elses life isn't humane or compassionate, unless they want to die and ask for it. Using such words to describe legalised murder is wrong.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

state sponsored murder is exactly that .... murder. people who are weak minded enough to believe that executing people is ok obviously haven't thought about it properly.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I do find it interesting that America is reliant on UK and European manufacturers, who are being persuaded to stop supplying. Why don't they make their own drugs?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I do find it interesting that America is reliant on UK and European manufacturers, who are being persuaded to stop supplying. Why don't they make their own drugs?"

Could they be concerned about the manufacturers of the drugs being targeted by protestors, more so if they were US companies?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *randmrsminxyCouple over a year ago

Gloucester

The death penalty is what it says on the tin , no matter how its done someone has to carry out the act and take that burden home with them . But here is an idea . A person in your street or family meets a grizzly end , the culprit is caught and tried and found guilty . You are offered the choice of that person going free or you get to administer the death of that person . So I ask would your thoughts still be the same . Some will say you cant let them go free, but a prison sentence is freedom as they are still alive and as a rule a 16 year old murderer will be on parole before he is 26 years old

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Dignitas provide a humane way of ending your life. However persuading someone who has been condemned to death to drink a glass of barbiturates the Dignitas way willingly may prove problematic.

Given the choice I would rather be shot standing up rather than lying down and having a chemical pumped into my veins that potentially won't kill me straight away.

Not a choice I would like to make though either way.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"I do find it interesting that America is reliant on UK and European manufacturers, who are being persuaded to stop supplying. Why don't they make their own drugs?

Could they be concerned about the manufacturers of the drugs being targeted by protestors, more so if they were US companies?"

They are. It doesn't fit the message on drugs for health. It's the social PR message Reprieve uses when talking to UK and European manufacturers now. They are having success with that message hence the lack of injections.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The death penalty is what it says on the tin , no matter how its done someone has to carry out the act and take that burden home with them . But here is an idea . A person in your street or family meets a grizzly end , the culprit is caught and tried and found guilty . You are offered the choice of that person going free or you get to administer the death of that person . So I ask would your thoughts still be the same . Some will say you cant let them go free, but a prison sentence is freedom as they are still alive and as a rule a 16 year old murderer will be on parole before he is 26 years old "

Yes my thoughts would still be the same. And I don't believe a prison sentence is freedom in any shape or form.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"'Humane Execution'

Another one of my top ten oxymorons. "
.

Tell us the rest

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If memory serves (which it rarely does) then the most humane form of execution is hypoxia (sp) the starving of oxygen to the brain. During the process the subject experiences euphoric sensations and then falls asleep, no pain, no anguish. But I think that's too kind for the Americans who want to see the subject suffer

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *appyguy17Man over a year ago

walthamstow

Firing squad is more humane !!!

I believe there should be a deterrent..

In this country you can kill someone and be back on the streets in 6 years !!

Is that right ????

In America...it's more their guns laws that keep the homicide rate up...

In this country ...we can effectively "get away with murder"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

It's not much of a principle if you can change your mind just to suit your own needs.

I'm opposed in all circumstances.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

In my opinion you can't argue for or against the death penalty based on one specific set of circumstances. But what if the 16 year old was a victim of mistaken identity, didn't commit the grizzly crime and you had killed him? I would argue that loss of liberty is not freedom and in some cases neither is being alive.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In terms of speed and accuracy, it could be argued that it's more humane. I'm not sure about the impact on the executors.

Given that I don't believe in the death penalty, I'm not sure any means of the state ending a life deliberately deserves to be described as humane. "

One of the firing squad normally has blanks but none know which so they can believe they had the blanks..

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Firing squad is more humane !!!

I believe there should be a deterrent..

In this country you can kill someone and be back on the streets in 6 years !!

Is that right ????

In America...it's more their guns laws that keep the homicide rate up...

In this country ...we can effectively "get away with murder"

And innocent people sit in prison, in the US on death row, for years before the proof of their innocence is heard.

People do not effectively get away with murder in this country.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *appyguy17Man over a year ago

walthamstow

Lickety....

You pick some tough subjects !!!

I had an Aunt who was murdered with a butcher's knife....and the guy is out,living his life as if nothing has happened....

Is that right ???

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In terms of speed and accuracy, it could be argued that it's more humane. I'm not sure about the impact on the executors.

Given that I don't believe in the death penalty, I'm not sure any means of the state ending a life deliberately deserves to be described as humane.

One of the firing squad normally has blanks but none know which so they can believe they had the blanks.."

But there's still evidence from firing squads of an unconscious bias to deliberately try to miss the target. I'd suggest that means they don't want to be the one who's done it.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *randmrsminxyCouple over a year ago

Gloucester

Yes sometimes the wrong person is found guilty . But DNA will prove your guilt or innocence . Have you seen inside a young offenders unit lately , TV , games ,hot meals , free prescriptions and NHS queue jumping . They have more human rights than the victim.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Lickety....

You pick some tough subjects !!!

I had an Aunt who was murdered with a butcher's knife....and the guy is out,living his life as if nothing has happened....

Is that right ???"

Probably not for you but I believe in rehabilitation, or at least the chance of it. I don't have your experience but I have worked with victims and criminals in the past and I still hold to my principle.

The person who attacked me was out within a year but I understood why. Seeing him in the street the first time was difficult but he had served his time and was receiving treatment.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"'Humane Execution'

Another one of my top ten oxymorons. .

Tell us the rest "

Awfully Good

True Lies

New & Improved

Military Intelligence

Friendly Fire

Crash Landing

Negative Growth

Original Copy

Monopoly

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"The very successful work of Reprieve, under the interesting Clive Stafford Smith, means that US states with the death penalty are finding it difficult to get hold of lethal injections.

Utah is planning to introduce death by firing squad. They are saying it will be more humane too.

I'm against the death penalty but what are your thoughts on the humanity of death by firing squad?"

It will certainly create a great deal more mess than lethal injection. Just a single round of the ammunition used will literally rip the heart out of the condemned. Multiply that effect by eight.

I spend a lot of time in the US, probably two months in total throughout the year and it is just not possible for a Brit to associate very much that is American other than a common language. The culture of guns, violence and death is completely mainstream and embedded in society. For example, I was watching the local morning news last week about a d*unk motorcyclist who was performing stunts whilst travelling down the highway whilst being chased by around 8 police vehicles made up of State Troopers, Sheriff and local police cars. The guy eventually pulled over and lay down prone, arms and legs outstretched and clearly compliant. Up to ten Policemen all with guns drawn and pointed at the guy approached him as if he were a suicide bomber about to attack the White House. It was a completely excessive use of the threat of deadly force against one guy on a motorbike who was d*unk and it was shown throughout the day on news broadcasts from morning all the way through to the evening. When you see that kind of thing day in and day out it must surely alter your sense of perception as to what is normal and what is not.

I doubt many Americans will be too alarmed about firing squads being brought back when it is much more the American way anyway.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In terms of speed and accuracy, it could be argued that it's more humane. I'm not sure about the impact on the executors.

Given that I don't believe in the death penalty, I'm not sure any means of the state ending a life deliberately deserves to be described as humane.

One of the firing squad normally has blanks but none know which so they can believe they had the blanks..

But there's still evidence from firing squads of an unconscious bias to deliberately try to miss the target. I'd suggest that means they don't want to be the one who's done it. "

Having re-read that I'm not sure how they can be showing an unconscious bias to deliberately do something. Hmm. Add me to the oxymoron list. I'll come back after another coffee.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

[Removed by poster at 24/03/15 08:58:03]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In terms of speed and accuracy, it could be argued that it's more humane. I'm not sure about the impact on the executors.

Given that I don't believe in the death penalty, I'm not sure any means of the state ending a life deliberately deserves to be described as humane.

One of the firing squad normally has blanks but none know which so they can believe they had the blanks..

But there's still evidence from firing squads of an unconscious bias to deliberately try to miss the target. I'd suggest that means they don't want to be the one who's done it. "

We may believe in retribution but when it comes to killing its an impossible quandary, and until we face this we do not truly know our reaction

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"In terms of speed and accuracy, it could be argued that it's more humane. I'm not sure about the impact on the executors.

Given that I don't believe in the death penalty, I'm not sure any means of the state ending a life deliberately deserves to be described as humane.

One of the firing squad normally has blanks but none know which so they can believe they had the blanks..

But there's still evidence from firing squads of an unconscious bias to deliberately try to miss the target. I'd suggest that means they don't want to be the one who's done it. "

From the bbc illustration, it would be pretty difficult to miss at the distances involved and any impact on any part of the body with that kind of ammunition would cause massive traumatic injury.

Fortunately in this country we get spared the images of the effects on the human body of modern ammunition, particularly hollow point, soft head bullets that are devastating to soft tissue and only accurate over fairly short distances.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

if i was being executed and given the choice i`d choose firing squad

or just a bullet to the head close range

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Am I wrong in thinking that they want to inflict suffering? Death from a bullet is far from instant

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Its rather irrelevant the method of death, its whether or not you think its a rational response to a irrational crime.

I think to a certain extent it lets the criminal off the hook and of course they have got it wrong in the past.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think the death penalty is a way of venting our anger at the person who did the crime.

I do not think it stops the crime from happening in the future.

I know which I would rather focus on.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *-elleWoman over a year ago

Romford

Each case is unique that's why we need courts of law. We are not judge and jury. This is a debate about societies tolerance levels. So whilst we deliberate a perpetrators human rights we may wish to consider what right his/her victims were given.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

"Yes sometimes the wrong person is found guilty . But DNA will prove your guilt or innocence . Have you seen inside a young offenders unit lately , TV , games ,hot meals , free prescriptions and NHS queue jumping . They have more human rights than the victim. "

yes i have and it's nothing like you've described at all

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman over a year ago

West Midlands

My humanity

wavers once I think of these people's victims and I wonder how humanely they treated the people they almost certainly murdered to be given the death sentence in the first place

As a previous victim of violent crime in the workplace myself... I'd ask the victims family and friends to choose the method of death if they wanted to

Me personally?

I'd make sure it hurt the fuckers like hell on earth before they departed

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"If we assume the penalty has passed for some truly atrocious crime,has been appealed ,turned down etc etc etc.. then I have no problem with it..

Get on with it and get on to the next one I say.

Most of these on death row chappies have no conscience or soul and there are far more people in the justice system deserving of our time and attention.

I'm not sure if the religious concept of a soul should have any bearing on a temporal discussion but if it does then surly a soul, if anything, is a God given gift to all and not selectively given to an elect few.

The only exception id make to the death penalty is where someone protests their innocence,possibly a wrong conviction scenario..

If its beyond doubt and they have admitted it,no problem..

With very few exceptions I'm pretty sure most people convicted of murder would profess their innocence, especially if their life depended on it.

The bar for a successful conviction in the US is the same as here: that is 'beyond reasonable doubt' not 'beyond doubt'. It's all but impossible to prove anything beyond any doubt.

We are too soft on baddies

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *reelove1969Couple over a year ago

bristol

"state sponsored murder is exactly that .... murder. people who are weak minded enough to believe that executing people is ok obviously haven't thought about it properly."

what ?? ...everyone in the military ?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"state sponsored murder is exactly that .... murder. people who are weak minded enough to believe that executing people is ok obviously haven't thought about it properly."

The definition of murder is:- The illegal killing of one human ring by another.

If the killing is legal, such as an act of war, execution or self defence, then it's not murder.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This is a very sensitive subject.

Death by lethal injection, satisfactory, the person has the chance to apologise for anything he does to the loved ones he has hurt.

Death by firing Squad, I am not to sure from this, as the calibre of the round (bullet) would have to come into play.

For instance, British army use 5.56mm to injure people not kill! that enters the body and bounces around bones causing massive internal damage, which in turn takes another two soldiers out the fight to treat him. So that calibre shouldn't be used.

7.62mm, designed to pass straight through the body,which can kill the person within minutes if not instantly. This would be more satisfactory.

9mm (pistol) would probably be the most effective, as it is a large(ish) size bullet.

However, people have been found to still be alive after ebing shot in the head. remember Malala Yousafzai the 15 year old girl shot in the head. that was 7.62mm

Hanging is probably the most humane method of execution. only if done correctly, length of rope etc

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"Taking someone elses life isn't humane or compassionate, unless they want to die and ask for it. Using such words to describe legalised murder is wrong."

By definition, you can not have legalised murder. The term is a true oxymoron.

See my post above.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

sounds like a good idea.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

I believe the most common form of death on death row is old age.

Firing squads aren't humane for anyone. During the Final Solution, the SS had to cease using firing squads as it was having a bad effect on the Einsatztruppen who were involved. I can't see if having a positive effect in Utah on anyone, either.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

Sounds a bit like some aspects of sharia law. We've all seen where that leads. Vengeance is never a good bases for justice and just outcomes.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman over a year ago

West Midlands

Sounds a bit like some aspects of sharia law. We've all seen where that leads. Vengeance is never a good bases for justice and just outcomes."

An eye for an eye I feel

Where's the deterrent otherwise

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"Firing squad is more humane !!!

I believe there should be a deterrent..

In this country you can kill someone and be back on the streets in 6 years !!

Is that right ????

In America...it's more their guns laws that keep the homicide rate up...

In this country ...we can effectively "get away with murder"

Not all states in the US allow capitol punishment. There is not statistical evidence to suggest that the murder rate is higher or lower between states that allow and practice capitol punishment and those that don't. In short, there is absolutely no evidence that capitol punishment is any deterrent to people committing murder.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman over a year ago

West Midlands

"Firing squad is more humane !!!

I believe there should be a deterrent..

In this country you can kill someone and be back on the streets in 6 years !!

Is that right ????

In America...it's more their guns laws that keep the homicide rate up...

In this country ...we can effectively "get away with murder"

I don't even care

They dish it out

Let them experience how it feels

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

"state sponsored murder is exactly that .... murder. people who are weak minded enough to believe that executing people is ok obviously haven't thought about it properly.

The definition of murder is:- The illegal killing of one human ring by another.

If the killing is legal, such as an act of war, execution or self defence, then it's not murder."

interesting concept but a concept none the less

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"Lickety....

You pick some tough subjects !!!

I had an Aunt who was murdered with a butcher's knife....and the guy is out,living his life as if nothing has happened....

Is that right ???"

superficialy I'd say no but, without knowing the full circumstances of the case it's not possible not to really comment.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Incarceration and rehabilitation punishes and repairs.

Capital punishment is revenge.

The state should be above revenge. Murder is not humane however it's carried out.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

This thread is about capitol punishment not prison conditions.

How many of those are in there for murder? How would executing the few who maybe make any difference.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Incarceration and rehabilitation punishes and repairs.

Capital punishment is revenge.

The state should be above revenge. Murder is not humane however it's carried out. "

Why should a mass murderer be allowed to be rehabilitated, he has taken lives, hurt many more lives in the process. why should he be allowed to live his life.

Incarceration doesn't always punish, There has been many occasions when an ex prisoner has committed ac rime once released just because they have an easier life inside. No bills to pay, x3 meals a day, a warm bed, shelter, showers, heating, clothing, free gym membership

, more phone call time a week than soldiers on an operational tour get. It can be a lifestyle choice for some inmates because its easy. Yet to get back in the cause somebody else a lifetime of hurt and pain.

Death penalty is required on some cases, not all! And no I am not saying all repeat offenders should be given the death sentence, they should just not be allowed out again!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman over a year ago

West Midlands

"Lickety....

You pick some tough subjects !!!

I had an Aunt who was murdered with a butcher's knife....and the guy is out,living his life as if nothing has happened....

Is that right ???"

I'm on the same side as you

I witnessed a drug adict (interestingly I now teach drug addicts voluntarily so some are actually my friends) slit the throat of my 19 year old colleague

He then used the blade to insert it in her vagina

Forcing me to watch

Then he did the same thing to me

We're both scarred mentally and physically for ever

I'd slit his throat in public if they let me and not shed one tear

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *reelove1969Couple over a year ago

bristol

Check out Louis Theroux on catch up from Sunday night ...illuminating doesn't touch on it !

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"state sponsored murder is exactly that .... murder. people who are weak minded enough to believe that executing people is ok obviously haven't thought about it properly.

The definition of murder is:- The illegal killing of one human ring by another.

If the killing is legal, such as an act of war, execution or self defence, then it's not murder.

interesting concept but a concept none the less

It's not a concept it's a matter of law. Murder means what it means. If the killing does not fit the definition of the word murder then it's not murder.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"Incarceration and rehabilitation punishes and repairs.

Capital punishment is revenge.

The state should be above revenge. Murder is not humane however it's carried out. "

Legal execution, by definition, can not be murder. Murder has to be the illegal killing of a person.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Incarceration and rehabilitation punishes and repairs.

Capital punishment is revenge.

The state should be above revenge. Murder is not humane however it's carried out.

Why should a mass murderer be allowed to be rehabilitated, he has taken lives, hurt many more lives in the process. why should he be allowed to live his life.

Death penalty is required on some cases, not all! And no I am not saying all repeat offenders should be given the death sentence, they should just not be allowed out again!"

I disagree with you. Society creates the criminals who are in my opinion victims themselves.

The sanctity of human life should not be reduced to a cost exercise.

Murder is never a requirement, it is always a choice.

Murder motivated by revenge is not what a progressive state should aspire to, it is a sign of failure and acknowledgement of that failure.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"Incarceration and rehabilitation punishes and repairs.

Capital punishment is revenge.

The state should be above revenge. Murder is not humane however it's carried out.

Why should a mass murderer be allowed to be rehabilitated, he has taken lives, hurt many more lives in the process. why should he be allowed to live his life.

Death penalty is required on some cases, not all! And no I am not saying all repeat offenders should be given the death sentence, they should just not be allowed out again!"

I don't know of many, or even any, cases of murders who have re offended by committing another murder after being released on license.

There maybe some I don't know about or can't remember but there's definitely not loads

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Humanity and death by firing squad do not belong in the same sentence."

Why Not?

If they are actually guilty?..

Some people are murdered in the most brutal and terrible way.

That wasn't humane.

So why should their execution be humane.

I'm just playing "Devils advocate" here as often with these threads the actual victims are normally never considered.

$0.02

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *reelove1969Couple over a year ago

bristol

the alternative _iew is that you are relentlessly trying to solve a problem that can't be solved ...hamster on a wheel !

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"the alternative _iew is that you are relentlessly trying to solve a problem that can't be solved ...hamster on a wheel !"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *heBirminghamWeekendMan over a year ago

here

Quick and without fuss

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *airy_HettyWoman over a year ago

Greater London

"Humanity and death by firing squad do not belong in the same sentence."

Barbarism legalised

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Humanity and death by firing squad do not belong in the same sentence.

Why Not?

If they are actually guilty?..

Some people are murdered in the most brutal and terrible way.

That wasn't humane.

So why should their execution be humane.

I'm just playing "Devils advocate" here as often with these threads the actual victims are normally never considered.

$0.02"

The state should not become a tool of revenge for the victim.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

An accurately placed round in the Madula Ablongata would be the only 'humane' way of shooting someone as death is truly instant. However, given that it is only the size of an apricot and in the head I highly doubt they'll pick that spot for the execution.

I have no issue with the death penalty in certain circumstances but absolutely proof of guilt has to be there.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

*Medulla Oblongata*

Stupid frikking phone!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Capital punishment was outlawed not for the sake of the victim but for the sake of society!.

It's not about the defendant or the crime but about taking us away from our natural aggressive side.

Nearly all crimes are committed through mental illness or the perception of scarcity, all of the symptoms of it are fixable today should you wish it so!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A quick effective end for the proven guilty prisoner, Hanging or Guillotine, OK the guillotine is a wee bit messy requiring a clean up, as does hanging if the job is botched and the head is removed in the act (a rare occurrence!)

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icky999Man over a year ago

warrington

3665 americans die of heroin overdoses last year. If your being out performed by smack heads perhaps taking some ones life should not be your profesion.

The only reason to ban the death penalty is the incompetence of the courts/police.

Reoffending rates in executed prisoners are 0. Scientifically proven science fact.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

All crime lowers a societies moral outlook.

That's why it should be tackled by government, however there's no evidence that capital punishment lowers crime, so all it serves is to lower societies take on killing people as it normalises it!.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"3665 americans die of heroin overdoses last year. If your being out performed by smack heads perhaps taking some ones life should not be your profesion.

The only reason to ban the death penalty is the incompetence of the courts/police.

Reoffending rates in executed prisoners are 0. Scientifically proven science fact. "

As indeed are adequate corrections to miscarriages of justice.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"An accurately placed round in the Madula Ablongata would be the only 'humane' way of shooting someone as death is truly instant. However, given that it is only the size of an apricot and in the head I highly doubt they'll pick that spot for the execution.

I have no issue with the death penalty in certain circumstances but absolutely proof of guilt has to be there."

The level of proof required for conviction is 'beyond reasonable doubt'. It is never possible to prove anything absolutely.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Reoffending rates in executed prisoners are 0. Scientifically proven science fact. "

I raise the Birmingham 6. Their rate of anything would have been cut to zero if they had been shot.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

"state sponsored murder is exactly that .... murder. people who are weak minded enough to believe that executing people is ok obviously haven't thought about it properly.

The definition of murder is:- The illegal killing of one human ring by another.

If the killing is legal, such as an act of war, execution or self defence, then it's not murder.

interesting concept but a concept none the less

It's not a concept it's a matter of law. Murder means what it means. If the killing does not fit the definition of the word murder then it's not murder."

on the one hand you've attempted to argue that the taking of a life isn't murder just because the state carry out the act whilst on the other hand you've managed to side-step defining murder with some clever word play but i did notice you doing it. if you think that the taking of life is somehow justified as a punishment then you are merely offering that as a concept or are you just debating as devils advocate now?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Reoffending rates in executed prisoners are 0. Scientifically proven science fact.

I raise the Birmingham 6. Their rate of anything would have been cut to zero if they had been shot. "
.

I see your Birmingham 6

And raise my Guildford 4

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Reoffending rates in executed prisoners are 0. Scientifically proven science fact.

I raise the Birmingham 6. Their rate of anything would have been cut to zero if they had been shot. .

I see your Birmingham 6

And raise my Guildford 4

I'll raise with Timothy Evans

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

Reoffending rates in executed prisoners are 0. Scientifically proven science fact.

I raise the Birmingham 6. Their rate of anything would have been cut to zero if they had been shot. .

I see your Birmingham 6

And raise my Guildford 4

i might fold as only have a cardiff 3

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

I am quiintessentially against the death penalty and therefore, I cannot think of a humane way of executing another human being.

That said in the light of public beheadings of people and the subsequent display of those recordings on the internet I am finding my stance on this quite challenged at the moment... and I am not sure what to think at the moment.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Reoffending rates in executed prisoners are 0. Scientifically proven science fact.

I raise the Birmingham 6. Their rate of anything would have been cut to zero if they had been shot. .

I see your Birmingham 6

And raise my Guildford 4

I'll raise with Timothy Evans

"
.

I'll trump you with my guy Fawkes who's been set fire to a million times and still hasn't learnt his lesson

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

Reoffending rates in executed prisoners are 0. Scientifically proven science fact.

I raise the Birmingham 6. Their rate of anything would have been cut to zero if they had been shot. .

I see your Birmingham 6

And raise my Guildford 4

i might fold as only have a cardiff 3"

Stefan Kiszko

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Humanity and death by firing squad do not belong in the same sentence.

If find capital punishment in whatever way it is administered barbaric. It has proved to be no deterrent in the US given their crime stats so what does it achieve?"

panders to the need in some for revenge, not just the families of the victims either..

cant be undone once its done and one innocent life taken due to human error, incompetence, corrupt practise etc is a stain upon us all in society..

glad its gone and wont come back..

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

Reoffending rates in executed prisoners are 0. Scientifically proven science fact.

I raise the Birmingham 6. Their rate of anything would have been cut to zero if they had been shot. .

I see your Birmingham 6

And raise my Guildford 4

i might fold as only have a cardiff 3

Stefan Kiszko"

that has to be one of the most appauling miscarriages of justice ever in the history of british law .... dick holland should've died in prison instead of living it up on a full pension after early retirement for his perverting of the course of justice

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Humanity and death by firing squad do not belong in the same sentence.

Why Not?

If they are actually guilty?..

Some people are murdered in the most brutal and terrible way.

That wasn't humane.

So why should their execution be humane.

I'm just playing "Devils advocate" here as often with these threads the actual victims are normally never considered.

$0.02"

My personal opinion is that anyone who wants to claim themselves as an authority should lead by example, they should treat others around them in the way they want the people of that society to become.

Yes a very few people are brutal compared to the rest of the population, but by treating them the same way, with brutality, you are saying its ok to be like that- even if only subliminally.

This is why most people are saying it's not even humane to kill someone else, because they wouldn't do it. They know they don't have that right.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"Humanity and death by firing squad do not belong in the same sentence.

If find capital punishment in whatever way it is administered barbaric. It has proved to be no deterrent in the US given their crime stats so what does it achieve?

panders to the need in some for revenge, not just the families of the victims either..

cant be undone once its done and one innocent life taken due to human error, incompetence, corrupt practise etc is a stain upon us all in society..

glad its gone and wont come back..

"
This

I just found with some of the barbaric IS actions I found myself a little drawn back to drastic action but of course, there is that thought of revenge and also putting an end to their barbarism....

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I must have wondered into the literary site , not a sex site haha

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"I must have wondered into the literary site , not a sex site haha "

It is a good thread and it has invited many good posts - what is wrong with it?

And I was under the impression it was a swingers site not a sex site?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"state sponsored murder is exactly that .... murder. people who are weak minded enough to believe that executing people is ok obviously haven't thought about it properly.

The definition of murder is:- The illegal killing of one human ring by another.

If the killing is legal, such as an act of war, execution or self defence, then it's not murder.

interesting concept but a concept none the less

It's not a concept it's a matter of law. Murder means what it means. If the killing does not fit the definition of the word murder then it's not murder.

Firstly I am totally and absolutely opposed to capitol punishment on both pragmatic and moral grounds.

However capitol punishment is not murder because the definition of murder is the illegal killing of one human being by another. Capitol punishment, however immoral, is legal by definition so can not be murder. That's just a point of law.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Humanity and death by firing squad do not belong in the same sentence.

If find capital punishment in whatever way it is administered barbaric. It has proved to be no deterrent in the US given their crime stats so what does it achieve?

panders to the need in some for revenge, not just the families of the victims either..

cant be undone once its done and one innocent life taken due to human error, incompetence, corrupt practise etc is a stain upon us all in society..

glad its gone and wont come back..

This

I just found with some of the barbaric IS actions I found myself a little drawn back to drastic action but of course, there is that thought of revenge and also putting an end to their barbarism...."

its part of the reaction that they want to see, they want to 'terrorise, shock and be barbaric' and for us to become in some ways like them where barbarity is acceptable as a response..

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"Humanity and death by firing squad do not belong in the same sentence.

If find capital punishment in whatever way it is administered barbaric. It has proved to be no deterrent in the US given their crime stats so what does it achieve?

panders to the need in some for revenge, not just the families of the victims either..

cant be undone once its done and one innocent life taken due to human error, incompetence, corrupt practise etc is a stain upon us all in society..

glad its gone and wont come back..

This

I just found with some of the barbaric IS actions I found myself a little drawn back to drastic action but of course, there is that thought of revenge and also putting an end to their barbarism....

its part of the reaction that they want to see, they want to 'terrorise, shock and be barbaric' and for us to become in some ways like them where barbarity is acceptable as a response..

"
I guess you are right and I have to remind myself of that.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"I must have wondered into the literary site , not a sex site haha "

interesting analogy, there are several different sections within the site..

bit like a modern library..

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icky999Man over a year ago

warrington

Reoffending rates in executed prisoners are 0. Scientifically proven science fact.

I raise the Birmingham 6. Their rate of anything would have been cut to zero if they had been shot. .

I see your Birmingham 6

And raise my Guildford 4

i might fold as only have a cardiff 3

Stefan Kiszko"

I wonder how many were jailed after having coments taken out of context?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

[Removed by poster at 24/03/15 12:56:57]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"Humanity and death by firing squad do not belong in the same sentence.

If find capital punishment in whatever way it is administered barbaric. It has proved to be no deterrent in the US given their crime stats so what does it achieve?

panders to the need in some for revenge, not just the families of the victims either..

cant be undone once its done and one innocent life taken due to human error, incompetence, corrupt practise etc is a stain upon us all in society..

glad its gone and wont come back..

This

I just found with some of the barbaric IS actions I found myself a little drawn back to drastic action but of course, there is that thought of revenge and also putting an end to their barbarism....

its part of the reaction that they want to see, they want to 'terrorise, shock and be barbaric' and for us to become in some ways like them where barbarity is acceptable as a response..

I guess you are right and I have to remind myself of that. "

I also find it hard at times to stand by what I know to be right when it comes to ISIS etc. but that's the real test of our convictions. Do we stand by them when we're truly tested and distressed? I hope I can!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"Humanity and death by firing squad do not belong in the same sentence.

If find capital punishment in whatever way it is administered barbaric. It has proved to be no deterrent in the US given their crime stats so what does it achieve?

panders to the need in some for revenge, not just the families of the victims either..

cant be undone once its done and one innocent life taken due to human error, incompetence, corrupt practise etc is a stain upon us all in society..

glad its gone and wont come back..

This

I just found with some of the barbaric IS actions I found myself a little drawn back to drastic action but of course, there is that thought of revenge and also putting an end to their barbarism....

its part of the reaction that they want to see, they want to 'terrorise, shock and be barbaric' and for us to become in some ways like them where barbarity is acceptable as a response..

I guess you are right and I have to remind myself of that.

I think talking about this with other people helps including on here.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *heOwlMan over a year ago

Altrincham

"The very successful work of Reprieve, under the interesting Clive Stafford Smith, means that US states with the death penalty are finding it difficult to get hold of lethal injections.

Utah is planning to introduce death by firing squad. They are saying it will be more humane too.

I'm against the death penalty but what are your thoughts on the humanity of death by firing squad?"

Not words that should be sharing a paragraph, never mind a sentence!

First and formost, no state should even consider executing its own citizens, no matter what they are alledged to have done - too many inocent people have been removed because of crap, cash based legal systems.

So with that in mind, surely one should be using the same methods as are used on livestock - and if those methods are not humane enough then what the heck are they being used on animals for?

There is also the question of the effect any method will have on those carrying it out, afterall the average abatoir is a great place to desensatize a person.

Sorry but state santioned murder is still murder. (Oh and, assuming one could proove 100% guilt, which we cannot, murdering the guilty party is far too quick.)

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

"state sponsored murder is exactly that .... murder. people who are weak minded enough to believe that executing people is ok obviously haven't thought about it properly.

The definition of murder is:- The illegal killing of one human ring by another.

If the killing is legal, such as an act of war, execution or self defence, then it's not murder.

interesting concept but a concept none the less

It's not a concept it's a matter of law. Murder means what it means. If the killing does not fit the definition of the word murder then it's not murder.

Firstly I am totally and absolutely opposed to capitol punishment on both pragmatic and moral grounds.

execution is not legal in british law and therefor can be considered murder

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The UK used to execute lots of people for lots of crimes.

We currently have a much lower murder rate than the US.

Is it possible that the extensive use of capital punishment earlier in our history has removed those with genes linked to violence making society in general less likely to commit these crimes?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Reoffending rates in executed prisoners are 0. Scientifically proven science fact.

I raise the Birmingham 6. Their rate of anything would have been cut to zero if they had been shot. .

I see your Birmingham 6

And raise my Guildford 4

i might fold as only have a cardiff 3

Stefan Kiszko

Yeah if only he'd been the ce of a blue chip company like oooo I don't know say Guinness!.

He'd have been out on some illness that's incurable only to be touched by Jesus and hallelujah your cured and free to get a job with car phone warehouse

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"The UK used to execute lots of people for lots of crimes.

We currently have a much lower murder rate than the US.

Is it possible that the extensive use of capital punishment earlier in our history has removed those with genes linked to violence making society in general less likely to commit these crimes?"

No, violence is an endemic part of US society in comparison to the UK.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The UK used to execute lots of people for lots of crimes.

We currently have a much lower murder rate than the US.

Is it possible that the extensive use of capital punishment earlier in our history has removed those with genes linked to violence making society in general less likely to commit these crimes?

No, violence is an endemic part of US society in comparison to the UK. "

Should that not be a yes then?

If violence in the UK is less than in the US.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"The very successful work of Reprieve, under the interesting Clive Stafford Smith, means that US states with the death penalty are finding it difficult to get hold of lethal injections.

Utah is planning to introduce death by firing squad. They are saying it will be more humane too.

I'm against the death penalty but what are your thoughts on the humanity of death by firing squad?

Not words that should be sharing a paragraph, never mind a sentence!

So with that in mind, surely one should be using the same methods as are used on livestock - and if those methods are not humane enough then what the heck are they being used on animals for?

There is also the question of the effect any method will have on those carrying it out, afterall the average abatoir is a great place to desensatize a person.

Sorry but state santioned murder is still murder. (Oh and, assuming one could proove 100% guilt, which we cannot, murdering the guilty party is far too quick.)"

Capitol punishment is not murder because murder has to be an illegal killing. An execution under the law is legal by definition so can not be illegal so can not be murder.

You may want murder to mean the killing of one person by another but it doesn't; it means the illegal killing of one person by another.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman over a year ago

West Midlands

JUST WAIT UNTIL THE KNIFE OR WEAPON IS AIMED AT YOU

You'll all feel very different I can assure you!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"state sponsored murder is exactly that .... murder. people who are weak minded enough to believe that executing people is ok obviously haven't thought about it properly.

The definition of murder is:- The illegal killing of one human ring by another.

If the killing is legal, such as an act of war, execution or self defence, then it's not murder.

interesting concept but a concept none the less

It's not a concept it's a matter of law. Murder means what it means. If the killing does not fit the definition of the word murder then it's not murder.

Firstly I am totally and absolutely opposed to capitol punishment on both pragmatic and moral grounds.

execution is not legal in british law and therefor can be considered murder"

Capitol punishment is no longer practiced or under any British mainland jurisdiction having been finally removed for High Treason in 1995 (ish). However there is nothing in law that stops it being reintroduced (although some may argue that European law would forbid it).

Execution, in accordance with the law, can never be murder by definition. If it's not in accordance with law then it may be murder but then it is not capitol punishment it's just another crime.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

"it's just another crime."

finally!! but then again you had no option but to concede

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ere-for-my-convenienceWoman over a year ago

West Midlands

"state sponsored murder is exactly that .... murder. people who are weak minded enough to believe that executing people is ok obviously haven't thought about it properly.

The definition of murder is:- The illegal killing of one human ring by another.

If the killing is legal, such as an act of war, execution or self defence, then it's not murder.

interesting concept but a concept none the less

It's not a concept it's a matter of law. Murder means what it means. If the killing does not fit the definition of the word murder then it's not murder.

Firstly I am totally and absolutely opposed to capitol punishment on both pragmatic and moral grounds.

execution is not legal in british law and therefor can be considered murder

Execution, in accordance with the law, can never be murder by definition. If it's not in accordance with law then it may be murder but then it is not capitol punishment it's just another crime."

Ignore my comments

I don't give a f@@k

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"it's just another crime.

finally!! but then again you had no option but to concede"

Have you lost your ability to read or something. There is nothing to concede.

Capitol punishment is legal execution.

Murder is illegal killing

Therefore Capitol punishment can not, by definition, be murder.

Of course the real irony of your continued Insistence that you're right when you actually already know you're wrong is that you're not actually improving your argument for the main argument that capitol punishment is wrong.

Ditch the ego and go google the word murder. It always includes the word illegal or unlawful in it's definition. There is nothing to argue about. It means what it means.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 24/03/15 16:20:39]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"JUST WAIT UNTIL THE KNIFE OR WEAPON IS AIMED AT YOU

You'll all feel very different I can assure you! "

I have had a knife waved in front of my face and yes I was scared. It scared and humiliated me so much I wanted the person dead. I still do but I was and still am wrong to want that.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"The UK used to execute lots of people for lots of crimes.

We currently have a much lower murder rate than the US.

Is it possible that the extensive use of capital punishment earlier in our history has removed those with genes linked to violence making society in general less likely to commit these crimes?

No, violence is an endemic part of US society in comparison to the UK.

Should that not be a yes then?

If violence in the UK is less than in the US."

Not really... From an earlier post... "The culture of guns, violence and death is completely mainstream and embedded in society. For example, I was watching the local morning news last week about a d*unk motorcyclist who was performing stunts whilst travelling down the highway whilst being chased by around 8 police vehicles made up of State Troopers, Sheriff and local police cars. The guy eventually pulled over and lay down prone, arms and legs outstretched and clearly compliant. Up to ten Policemen all with guns drawn and pointed at the guy approached him as if he were a suicide bomber about to attack the White House. It was a completely excessive use of the threat of deadly force against one guy on a motorbike who was d*unk and it was shown throughout the day on news broadcasts from morning all the way through to the evening. When you see that kind of thing day in and day out it must surely alter your sense of perception as to what is normal and what is not...."

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The UK used to execute lots of people for lots of crimes.

We currently have a much lower murder rate than the US.

Is it possible that the extensive use of capital punishment earlier in our history has removed those with genes linked to violence making society in general less likely to commit these crimes?

No, violence is an endemic part of US society in comparison to the UK.

Should that not be a yes then?

If violence in the UK is less than in the US.

I think your example is showing the police in a good light though, they contained the danger to other road users and even though they drew their weapons no shots were fired. Armed police would have their weapons drawn and held ready to ensure that if they did have to fire then the shots would be accurate and minimise the risk to anyone other than the target.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The UK used to execute lots of people for lots of crimes.

We currently have a much lower murder rate than the US.

Is it possible that the extensive use of capital punishment earlier in our history has removed those with genes linked to violence making society in general less likely to commit these crimes?

No, violence is an endemic part of US society in comparison to the UK.

Should that not be a yes then?

If violence in the UK is less than in the US.

Excessive?!

If you were armed and there was a high chance that the suspect was armed wouldn't you draw your weapon, or would you wait until he fired the first shot?

Yes, there may have been multiple officers but one could possibly see what the other 9 couldn't.

Like the old saying goes, better to have a condom and not need it than need it and not have one.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"The UK used to execute lots of people for lots of crimes.

We currently have a much lower murder rate than the US.

Is it possible that the extensive use of capital punishment earlier in our history has removed those with genes linked to violence making society in general less likely to commit these crimes?

No, violence is an endemic part of US society in comparison to the UK.

Should that not be a yes then?

If violence in the UK is less than in the US.

Excessive?!

If you were armed and there was a high chance that the suspect was armed wouldn't you draw your weapon, or would you wait until he fired the first shot?

Yes, there may have been multiple officers but one could possibly see what the other 9 couldn't.

Like the old saying goes, better to have a condom and not need it than need it and not have one."

I am just giving this as an example of the culture of excessive violence. The guy was d*unk and laid prone arms and legs stretched out - he was no threat to one policeman, let alone ten. The chase was made by State Troopers, County Sheriffs and City Police and all had guns drawn on an already prone and compliant person. This is not a one off. There are daily doses of fly on the wall murder investigations, reports of shoot-outs and killings and it is on almost every channel, all day, every day - you just can't get away from it.

It is not just about guns in America - but about the way that they are normalised. The NRA is up in arms at the moment because the Obama administration want to ban a .380 armour piercing bullet from general sale. The result is that people are now stocking up on a bullet that if it hit you in the head would probably remove it from your shoulders - whilst you were stood behind a wall!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"The UK used to execute lots of people for lots of crimes.

We currently have a much lower murder rate than the US.

Is it possible that the extensive use of capital punishment earlier in our history has removed those with genes linked to violence making society in general less likely to commit these crimes?

No, violence is an endemic part of US society in comparison to the UK.

Should that not be a yes then?

If violence in the UK is less than in the US.

Do you see how many unarmed, prone and compliant people get shot by the Police every week in the USA? If it were happening in another country, the USA would call it state sponsored terrorism.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The UK used to execute lots of people for lots of crimes.

We currently have a much lower murder rate than the US.

Is it possible that the extensive use of capital punishment earlier in our history has removed those with genes linked to violence making society in general less likely to commit these crimes?

No, violence is an endemic part of US society in comparison to the UK.

Should that not be a yes then?

If violence in the UK is less than in the US.

Do you see how many unarmed, prone and compliant people get shot by the Police every week in the USA? If it were happening in another country, the USA would call it state sponsored terrorism."

Do you hear how many police are killed or injured every week?

The media focuses on stories with a shock factor so it's easy to be led by a few headlines.

What about if your prone, compliant d*unk suddenly rolled over and and fired at the officers, if they had approached with their weapons holstered would they be able to react in time?

I think the main problem is that you've picked an example which shows the police tactics resulting in a successful arrest with no injuries to anyone.

In terms of executions I think that if an individual can't be rehabilitated and continues to pose a risk to the public then it is justifiable. As to how humane it is I'm sure that every methos has its pros and cons and will never be 100% effective at delivering painless, rapid death.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

In terms of executions I think that if an individual can't be rehabilitated and continues to pose a risk to the public then it is justifiable.

How would that work?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *arry247Couple over a year ago

Wakefield

The death penalty does prevent multimurders murdering again.

It is doubtful whether it prevents others from commiting such crimes.

My main worry about the death penalty is there is no way to prevent a miscarriage of justice, innocent people have been convicted in the past and will be convicted in the future

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The UK used to execute lots of people for lots of crimes.

We currently have a much lower murder rate than the US.

Is it possible that the extensive use of capital punishment earlier in our history has removed those with genes linked to violence making society in general less likely to commit these crimes?

No, violence is an endemic part of US society in comparison to the UK.

Should that not be a yes then?

If violence in the UK is less than in the US.

Excessive?!

If you were armed and there was a high chance that the suspect was armed wouldn't you draw your weapon, or would you wait until he fired the first shot?

Yes, there may have been multiple officers but one could possibly see what the other 9 couldn't.

Like the old saying goes, better to have a condom and not need it than need it and not have one.

Compliance gets you killed.

Obama was trying to ban 5.56/.223 ammunition, one of the most popular calibres in the world (most armed forces use it too). His theory was that he can't ban the guns but banning the ammunition would work the same in the end.

It's actually a less lethal round anyway, very high velocity and small calibre means it's more likely to seriously wound than kill because it passes through the body and causes less wound cavitation than a round that dumps all its kinetic energy into a target.

Sorry to sound geeky, I'm a long range shooter and ballistics is one of my things.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm against capital punishment . But if it's a must I would take away all the theatre , witnesses etc , give the person a general anaesthetic and have it done surgically in private by a surgiene I'm sure it wouldn't be hard with the right cut ect then , possibly key hole surgery , no mess , no fuss .

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *randmrsminxyCouple over a year ago

Gloucester

yes i have and it's nothing like you've described at all "

What as in there human rights or the life style that they have . So the programs on TV that show these units are filming in a different location and my partner who works with offenders comes home and makes it all up .

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Sounds a bit like some aspects of sharia law. We've all seen where that leads. Vengeance is never a good bases for justice and just outcomes.

An eye for an eye I feel

Where's the deterrent otherwise

Just catching up so someone may have said it already. The death penalty is not in any way shape or form a deterrent. More people on death row shows that.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

Just awful....

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Incarceration and rehabilitation punishes and repairs.

Capital punishment is revenge.

The state should be above revenge. Murder is not humane however it's carried out.

Why should a mass murderer be allowed to be rehabilitated, he has taken lives, hurt many more lives in the process. why should he be allowed to live his life.

Death penalty is required on some cases, not all! And no I am not saying all repeat offenders should be given the death sentence, they should just not be allowed out again!"

Just because someone has lost all concept of how to live freely doesn't mean they have it so cushy they are "happy" there. What sort of mental state are you in that being told what to do and when to do it with no contact with the world is preferable?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

"it's just another crime.

finally!! but then again you had no option but to concede

Have you lost your ability to read or something. There is nothing to concede.

Capitol punishment is legal execution.

Murder is illegal killing

Therefore Capitol punishment can not, by definition, be murder.

Ditch the ego and go google the word murder. It always includes the word illegal or unlawful in it's definition. There is nothing to argue about. It means what it means."

stop clutching at straws that don't exist

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"JUST WAIT UNTIL THE KNIFE OR WEAPON IS AIMED AT YOU

You'll all feel very different I can assure you! "

It has been and I don't.

I have had 23 stitches in my head following a fairly brutal attack. I have never once felt the best solution would be to batter the perpetrators head.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"JUST WAIT UNTIL THE KNIFE OR WEAPON IS AIMED AT YOU

You'll all feel very different I can assure you! "

Not everyone who has been a victim of a serious crime responds in the same way, that's why while victims _iews should be taken into account they shouldn't be used to set policy or sentencing guidelines or law, because they're only _iewing it through the prism of their own experience not the bigger picture.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"it's just another crime.

finally!! but then again you had no option but to concede

Have you lost your ability to read or something. There is nothing to concede.

Capitol punishment is legal execution.

Murder is illegal killing

Therefore Capitol punishment can not, by definition, be murder.

Ditch the ego and go google the word murder. It always includes the word illegal or unlawful in it's definition. There is nothing to argue about. It means what it means.

stop clutching at straws that don't exist"

What are you on about?. Have you just come back from the pub or something?

Make your case if you want but don't just reply with banal comments totally unrelated to what's been said.

You may be making me look pedantic on this but your making yourself look a fool. I would suggest you stop now.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

so you're just resorting to personal attacks now then

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"so you're just resorting to personal attacks now then"

What ever!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *B9 QueenWoman over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"Is there a humane way of executing someone ? "

It's human rather than humane.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *eovilcouple76Couple over a year ago

yeovil

All you lot that don't agree with the death penalty or think it's not humane, when the grim reaper comes knocking at your family door and takes someone away from you, maybe you'll change your mind.

You know absolutely nothing.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"All you lot that don't agree with the death penalty or think it's not humane, when the grim reaper comes knocking at your family door and takes someone away from you, maybe you'll change your mind.

You know absolutely nothing. "

I honestly don't think I will but I hope and pray I never find out for sure.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"All you lot that don't agree with the death penalty or think it's not humane, when the grim reaper comes knocking at your family door and takes someone away from you, maybe you'll change your mind.

You know absolutely nothing. "

Please remember you know nothing about people on here except what they have chosen to tell. Don't presume to know people's circumstances just because their _iew isn't the same as yours.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"All you lot that don't agree with the death penalty or think it's not humane, when the grim reaper comes knocking at your family door and takes someone away from you, maybe you'll change your mind.

You know absolutely nothing. "

I don't presume that everyone will react in the same way. Nor should you.

Peace and reconciliation and, yes, even forgiveness, is possible for some. I am privileged to have met some who have forgiven the most horrific murders. The fact that they could forgive always gives me hope that others can too.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

At the risk of ostracising myself yet again , here's how I see it .

We seem to be saying that revenge is not a good thing , so an eye for an eye is politically incorrect .

We are also saying that rehabilitation is a much better option for the criminal , no matter how heinous his crime .

Some have said if the perpetrator wants to face the firing squad then that's ok , but not if he doesn't because that would be murder .

What a strange world we live in , where we as a society are happy to let the criminal choose their punishment for fear that we are no better than them if we do it !

I would have no issue with a firing squad for the Isis beheading scum .

And for many of the filth that scour the human race , soulless paedophiles and murderers .

But then again , I like Jeremy Clarkson too , and still take D&G stance over Elton John so what do I know . I feel more like a dinosaur every day !

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"At the risk of ostracising myself yet again , here's how I see it .

We seem to be saying that revenge is not a good thing , so an eye for an eye is politically incorrect .

We are also saying that rehabilitation is a much better option for the criminal , no matter how heinous his crime .

Some have said if the perpetrator wants to face the firing squad then that's ok , but not if he doesn't because that would be murder .

What a strange world we live in , where we as a society are happy to let the criminal choose their punishment for fear that we are no better than them if we do it !

I would have no issue with a firing squad for the Isis beheading scum .

And for many of the filth that scour the human race , soulless paedophiles and murderers .

But then again , I like Jeremy Clarkson too , and still take D&G stance over Elton John so what do I know . I feel more like a dinosaur every day !

I don't believe criminals should choose their punishment. I do believe in punishment but with rehabilitation. I accept that some people cannot be rehabilitated.

I will never believe in an eye for an eye though.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Firing squad is more humane !!!

I believe there should be a deterrent..

In this country you can kill someone and be back on the streets in 6 years !!

Is that right ????

In America...it's more their guns laws that keep the homicide rate up...

In this country ...we can effectively "get away with murder"

I don't even care

They dish it out

Let them experience how it feels "

Sorry but I just can't agree with this comment. Most murderers/violent criminals/sex offenders etc were - if you look into their childhood history - abused, sometimes horrifically, themselves! I can't believe that it's right to take the life of someone who's whole life until that moment of execution has probably been one of misery! Surely as human beings we should be focussing on education and rehabilitation?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *randmrsminxyCouple over a year ago

Gloucester

There does seem to be a lot of comments on execution being in-humane .

So simple question to those who quote this . When the person carries out this attack ,does the victim get a humane death . Does the murderer act like a animal thus loosing is thoughts that make that person a civilised human .

Therefore should we treat them from that point on as a animal.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *randmrsminxyCouple over a year ago

Gloucester

"Firing squad is more humane !!!

I believe there should be a deterrent..

In this country you can kill someone and be back on the streets in 6 years !!

Is that right ????

In America...it's more their guns laws that keep the homicide rate up...

In this country ...we can effectively "get away with murder"

I don't even care

They dish it out

Let them experience how it feels

So you are saying two wrongs make a right