FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Ending the housing crisis

Ending the housing crisis

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Research by the National Housing Federation to mark the Homes for Britain rally reveals that property values in England increased by £289 billion in the first three years of the current government, but £282 billion of that wealth growth (97%) took place in the capital and the South East.

The price of the average house in London, now a staggering £502,000, has been increasing each year by more than the average annual wage.

Most home-owners in the capital have seen their property earn more than they do. Small wonder that Generation Rent struggles to find anything it can afford.

In a sense, the housing crisis plays into that wider public view that Londoners, and in particular the 'Westminster-elite', are coining it - while the rest of the country struggles to pay the electricity and gas bills.

The value of property in the North West and north-east of England has fallen slightly.

All the political parties will go into the election promising answers to the housing crisis, in most cases with pledges to build many more homes.

So we can be sure that the crisis is going to get worse before it gets better.

According to projections by the Town and Country Planning Association, using data from the last census, England needs 245,000 extra homes every year from 2011 right the way to 2031. Completions are currently only half of what is required and the country has already fallen more than half a million homes behind, pushing the annual demand even higher.

The reason we need so many extra homes is due to household formation: the elderly are living longer and, increasingly, in their own homes; relationship breakdown has created a big demand for more single-person homes; high levels of net-migration puts pressure on housing supply.

A British Social Attitudes survey published by the government last week suggests that most people in England (56%) are now supportive of house building in their local area, up from 28% in 2010.

Although public attitudes are changing, surveys suggest people don't tend to regard housing as a priority at the election.

I think that more and more of us will rent rather than own a property. I wish more was done though to stop private landlords from charging exorbitant rents for shoddy properties!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A third of privately rented properties don't meet the government's Decent Homes standard, that's a scandal.

It is such a big issue, on the thread about debt the other day one or two people were referencing buying houses in cash etc. - which is completely ludicrous now. I'm lucky enough that my parents had money to give me a bit of a leg up and help me with my 10% deposit to buy my first house. If I was saving up while renting or if I lived anywhere near London I wouldn't have a hope in hell. It's a massive generational issue, for most of my friends owning a home isn't even on the horizon and I live in an "affordable" part of the country.

A shift to a more rental focused society more like the European model wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing but we don't have the security of tenancies or regulation of the market for it to be a good thing in the UK at the moment. And I wonder what will happen to all the pensioners who are still paying market rents when they're 80.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

My borough are building more homes in a deal with private housing developers. They call it affordable housing but it's double the rent of the old housing stock so not everyone can actually afford it. They are beautiful new builds though,carpeted throughout.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"My borough are building more homes in a deal with private housing developers. They call it affordable housing but it's double the rent of the old housing stock so not everyone can actually afford it. They are beautiful new builds though,carpeted throughout. "

I think that's 80% of private rental prices. I can understand frustrations for those that pay their own rent. Carpeted throughout - that's unheard of for affordable housing near me !

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"A third of privately rented properties don't meet the government's Decent Homes standard, that's a scandal.

Unfortunately , many have also been caught out with interest only mortgages going into their 70's with no means of repaying it at the end of the term.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

I rent privately and my rent is a killer but as a single person with no kids or medical health issues I'm entitled to fuck all so just have to carry on until I can afford to buy. My parents hate me renting they believe it's dead money but I've not got a great credit rating so can't get a mortgage. They are looking into helping me by buying a house outright but it's a big step for them and one that would eat into a chunk of their savings.

I do believe that more has to be done in regards to housing. We do not have enough social housing to go around and landlords and letting agencies are cottoning on to this. It is a lucrative market with often the dregs of landlords and agents preying on the most vulnerable.

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By *ot monkey71Couple over a year ago

middlesbrough

The bedroom tax is been blamed for a lot of the social housing problems. Accent homes were reportedly selling off houses for £1 and the bedroom tax was stated as a reason for this.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I rent privately and my rent is a killer but as a single person with no kids or medical health issues I'm entitled to fuck all so just have to carry on until I can afford to buy. My parents hate me renting they believe it's dead money but I've not got a great credit rating so can't get a mortgage. They are looking into helping me by buying a house outright but it's a big step for them and one that would eat into a chunk of their savings.

If your parents have the cash, and you are willing to pay to them the same rent you might pay to a landlord, you might find it is a very good way for them to increase significantly their income in an index linked low risk way.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

I've told them this and they are aware but they are being catious I guess and I can understand that.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The British have an obsession about home ownership that Europe doesn't have.

I believe it's because people see it as easy money!.

But we all know nothing lasts forever, I'd be very wary of entering into the housing market if I was a first time buyer.

It's been propped up through the financial crises by cheap money and has yet to see it's true market value.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think that's 80% of private rental prices. I can understand frustrations for those that pay their own rent. Carpeted throughout - that's unheard of for affordable housing near me ! "

The rent for a 3 bedroom flat is £180-£220 per week. A lot less than private renting but for single parents and low earners it's a huge chunk of their wages.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The British have an obsession about home ownership that Europe doesn't have.

I believe it's because people see it as easy money!.

But we all know nothing lasts forever, I'd be very wary of entering into the housing market if I was a first time buyer.

It's been propped up through the financial crises by cheap money and has yet to see it's true market value."

Europe is geared up to long term renting in a way we're not. When I was renting there was always so much uncertainty, your rent would go up every year, the landlord could sell up and turf you out with a month's notice, many landlords are total arseholes, you couldn't do much to decorate the property....those are the reasons I wanted to buy, not because I wanted to make money out of it. Also the mortgage was cheaper than renting the equivalent property.

Do you rent, or do you own your property?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The British have an obsession about home ownership that Europe doesn't have.

I believe it's because people see it as easy money!.

But we all know nothing lasts forever, I'd be very wary of entering into the housing market if I was a first time buyer.

It's been propped up through the financial crises by cheap money and has yet to see it's true market value.

Do you rent, or do you own your property?"
.

We rented for quite a few years while we were in London but like you we bought when we move to Bristol as (more me) we wanted to have a go at an eco friendly house.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

People want to buy a property so they aren't paying a landlord's mortgage for them. Why put money into someone else's pocket and have no say in what decorating or building goes on in the rented place,or be wary you may have to keep moving when the landlord wants to sell.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"People want to buy a property so they aren't paying a landlord's mortgage for them. Why put money into someone else's pocket and have no say in what decorating or building goes on in the rented place,or be wary you may have to keep moving when the landlord wants to sell."

I agree I have a converted loft that is a brothel red I'm dying to paint it but I don't want to as I just think I'm not going to get anything out of it..my landlord has allowed me to decorate but I'm going to do it on a budget as I don't want him to reap the reward. I think I did him a favour renting this place it needs so much work but it's quirky and it has a garden something I missed living like a caged animal in an apartment

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"The bedroom tax is been blamed for a lot of the social housing problems. Accent homes were reportedly selling off houses for £1 and the bedroom tax was stated as a reason for this."

I think I hold an unpopular viewpoint as I do understand why they brought that tax in. There may well have been better ways to introduce it and some cases were not thought through. But I understand the theory of not paying full benefit to cover an excess of bedrooms. It has caused movement in social housing stock. Helped release larger properties. There is a lack of one bedroom properties though and that causes an issue. I think more exemptions for extenuating circumstance should have been applied. But overall - something had to be done. At the moment I'm not sure of anything that would have worked better.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"The bedroom tax is been blamed for a lot of the social housing problems. Accent homes were reportedly selling off houses for £1 and the bedroom tax was stated as a reason for this.

There is assistant for those who can't afford to pay the bedroom tax. Local authorities are paying out DHP on a huge number of bedroom tax cases. I also understand the theory around bedroom tax I just don't think they thought it out well enough before rolling it out

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I am lucky and have got on the mortgage ladder. The one thing I don't understand with lenders is if person A can afford to pay £1000 plus in rent London prices. Then why not give them a mortgage regardless of deposit. Start at 21 a 25 to 30 year mortgage paid off before retirement. Everyone is a winner the lender has the profit of interest and the person has a house to live in and own eventually. Regarding house prices on your house insurance and original survey cost to rebuild. That is what we should be paying for a property which is nothing like the inflated price paid.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The bedroom tax is been blamed for a lot of the social housing problems. Accent homes were reportedly selling off houses for £1 and the bedroom tax was stated as a reason for this.

I agree actually. And I don't think its legitimate to blame the bedroom tax for a housing crisis, because its a policy that's only been in place for a couple of years but a problem that's been around for much longer than that, and which isn't limited to social housing.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple over a year ago

Derbyshire

Thank you OP for a very detailed thread. I've been considering something like this every since all the parties published their plans for new houses a fortnight ago and I was shocked how few they were all planning to build, but didn't know any figures myself.

The fact is, the answer is exactly to build at least this many houses, and it doesn't particularly matter whether they're for sale or rent. The sad truth is that everyone wants cheap housing for their kids, but opposes all housing developments in their local area. Politicians are mindful that those with houses are more likely to vote, and are scared about a repeat of the negative equity of the 90s, so prefer to see house-price inflation.

Yes some people rent shitty houses (I did) but people also own shitty houses, and cannot afford to improve them because of mortgage costs.

I also think it would help if, rather than cutting inheritance tax, they doubled it. Thus elderly people would be encouraged to sell their large, family homes and either use the money, or pass it on.

Also they should remove the capital gains tax exemption for homes. It is absurd that everyone is taxed on money earned through hard work, but get a free ride on property values. The Government, hence the tax payer, should benefit from gains which rise more due to government policy than anything else.

Put together, these three measures would go a long way to reducing house prices.

Mr ddc

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We all fell for the great tory con of house ownership in the 80's, me included. Radical action is now needed to sort out the housing crisis here, but no politacal party with any clout has got the balls to do it! Council house sales should be reversed, increase the tax on rental profits whilst capping the amount than can be charged per square foot. Compulsory purchase orders on all residential property that landlords cannot or will not put back into use. But the most unpopular measure would be to cap proprty value increases to below the rate of inflation for a while and the to match inflation forever.

Houses are for living in, not just a money making scheme.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"The bedroom tax is been blamed for a lot of the social housing problems. Accent homes were reportedly selling off houses for £1 and the bedroom tax was stated as a reason for this.

Social housing will be the thing of the past soon. Local authorities now how the power to discharge homeless duty into private rented accommodation under the localism act. People need to know that it is not their right to have social housing it is there for the most vulnerable of society however it's hard to break as it's often a generation thing.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Thank you OP for a very detailed thread. I've been considering something like this every since all the parties published their plans for new houses a fortnight ago and I was shocked how few they were all planning to build, but didn't know any figures myself.

Yes some people rent shitty houses (I did) but people also own shitty houses, and cannot afford to improve them because of mortgage costs.

I also think it would help if, rather than cutting inheritance tax, they doubled it. Thus elderly people would be encouraged to sell their large, family homes and either use the money, or pass it on.

Put together, these three measures would go a long way to reducing house prices.

Mr ddc"
.

Errr yes I agree completely, although I don't think they'll ever build enough houses as it would pop the bubble they created as an industry.

Let's get back to the 70s where councils would release large sections of council land for individual and self builders only, for too many years now the large building companies have had way to much control on housing.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple over a year ago

Derbyshire

Errr yes I agree completely, although Io don't think they'll ever build enough houses as it would pop the bubble they created as an industry.

Let's get back to the 70s where councils would release large sections of counocil land for individual and self builders only, for too many years now the large building companies have had way to much control on housing."

Lol, you see, I can be socialist at times

Or pre.1947, when councils compulsory purchased land for development, then sold it on. So the taxpayer got the mark-up from change of use and potential for abuse was removed. I'd even go further and instead of selling development land to developers, making them competitively bid for the right to build houses on it for a three-year period. This would hopefully encourage them to build, rather than sitting on existing landbanks waiting for prices to peak.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think that's 80% of private rental prices. I can understand frustrations for those that pay their own rent. Carpeted throughout - that's unheard of for affordable housing near me ! "

My house was linoed for me when i moved in. Had a flood last year and the landloard even replaced it for us.

I don't think it's fair that we have to pay for a property we'll never own just because we can't afford to buy one. I'd rather give it to the landlord i have now though because they are a charity so nobody personally profits from me needing a home.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The bedroom tax is been blamed for a lot of the social housing problems. Accent homes were reportedly selling off houses for £1 and the bedroom tax was stated as a reason for this.

spot on, least bad option given housing shortage.

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By *icolerobbieCouple over a year ago

walsall

I think the housing problem could be sorted overnight by simply banning owning any more than one house. But that will never happen as private renting is a huge industry.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"I think the housing problem could be sorted overnight by simply banning owning any more than one house. But that will never happen as private renting is a huge industry. "

But then there would be empty homes there was a big thing a couple of years ago regarding empty homes. Everyone needs housing but what we need a lot more of is decent affordable housing.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple over a year ago

Derbyshire

There was also talk, a few years ago, about making it compulsory for all landlords to be licensed and pass a minimum set of standards.

Forcing people to sell won't work since the most vulnerable will never be in a position to obtain a mortgage.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think the availability of commercial mortgages has a large part to play in inflating private rents while siphoning off housing benefit into bank coffers.

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By *icolerobbieCouple over a year ago

walsall

"I think the housing problem could be sorted overnight by simply banning owning any more than one house. But that will never happen as private renting is a huge industry.

But then there would be empty homes there was a big thing a couple of years ago regarding empty homes. Everyone needs housing but what we need a lot more of is decent affordable housing. "

How would there be empty homes? Do you think house prices would be so high if you were only allowed one to live in and not own as an investment or let. If a house was in poor repair, the price would be even lower and you would be able to spend on renovations.

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By *icolerobbieCouple over a year ago

walsall

"There was also talk, a few years ago, about making it compulsory for all landlords to be licensed and pass a minimum set of standards.

Forcing people to sell won't work since the most vulnerable will never be in a position to obtain a mortgage. "

There will always be a need for social housing.

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By *icolerobbieCouple over a year ago

walsall

"I think the availability of commercial mortgages has a large part to play in inflating private rents while siphoning off housing benefit into bank coffers."

Definately this.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the availability of commercial mortgages has a large part to play in inflating private rents while siphoning off housing benefit into bank coffers."
.

What all that ridiculously cheap money at 0.5% but only available to massive corporations or banks but subsidised by the tax payer as we pay around 2.5% as a country, you mean all that money is just pushing house prices past the availability of the very people who are subsidising it and forcing them into a life paying rent to the people who are benefiting the most by receiving this cheap money but then avoiding the tax they make on the profit..... Oh that commercial mortgage you mean.

Still them greens with their stupid unfunded ideas and lack of numbers hey... At least we're fucking honest! And you'll get what you voted for.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

We are told owning is the dream as that's your pension/safety net/way to make money.

My home is not worth what I could sell it for and the reality is that I make NO money on selling it if I want to remain in London. It's only "worth" something if I sell up and move up North.

The trend near me is for prices to be pushed up by the buy-to-let who then rent out rooms at £500-£800 a month.

An elderly neighbour refused to sell to anyone but a family moving into his four bedroom house. He got a lot less than the market price because he thought the market price was ridiculous and would mean no family could afford to buy the house. There are very few people like that.

I bought at the tail end of the early 90s crash when property was being repossessed and people had negative equity. I bought because at the time I couldn't find anywhere to rent for longer than a year. I hate moving and couldn't face the thought of renting short term. I was lucky that I was looking to buy when the market was at a reasonable rate.

The other issue is that the private sector developments in partnership with local authorities are very uneven. I have seen differing build quality and design on the same estates. One high-profile regeneration development has mould growing in the social housing stock after just 18 months of occupancy. It hasn't been reported in the private sale stock as I guess snagging was more thorough for those properties, as they should be for flats selling at £500k.

Developers held onto land and release the land and build the stock in ways that ensure we have an increase in prices. Until that can be stopped we will have a shortage as that keeps prices high.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This was Osbourne's worst idea but one that the general public seem to not realise.

He started out telling us the only way out of this problem was exporting and returning to a balanced trade deficit... Oh oh totally failed... Roll out plan b, throw cheap money at wealthy people via QE and let them make a quick killing ploughing this cheap money on to the stock market and housing market causing the current boom.... General public idiots think weyhey good old Torys bring back a good economy... When you point out to them that the condems have spent more money in five years than labour spent in ten... They look at you as if.. What your crazy, look how good this economy is now under the Tories.

It's going to go bad very soon and when it does thanks to Georgie porgies fat useless fucking fingers it's going to be much much much worse

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"This was Osbourne's worst idea but one that the general public seem to not realise.

It's going to go bad very soon and when it does thanks to Georgie porgies fat useless fucking fingers it's going to be much much much worse"

The thing that I see that has helped the boom is the Help to Buy scheme. In theory it's great to give people a helping hand to buy their first home but it has had the effect of pushing up prices, particularly in the SE, as sellers add the "government" money into the price now.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This was Osbourne's worst idea but one that the general public seem to not realise.

It's going to go bad very soon and when it does thanks to Georgie porgies fat useless fucking fingers it's going to be much much much worse

Take up of Help to Buy has actually been lowest in the SE, it's been used far more in areas like the NW and Yorkshire. I don't think the number of completions under the scheme is sufficient to suggest it's fuelling the market - although I'm sure it probably doesn't help.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The developers where always going to inflate prices to soak up the right to buy deposits on top, the simple truth is that house prices are unsustainably high but no government wants to be the bogyman so the charade continues.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This was Osbourne's worst idea but one that the general public seem to not realise.

It's going to go bad very soon and when it does thanks to Georgie porgies fat useless fucking fingers it's going to be much much much worse

"
.

Yeah and how many first time buyers want a 600,000 pound mortgage or even should have it.

That scheme benefited the rich more than the poor, now any rich dude can sign there 20 year old kid up get a free deposit and before you can say hsbc secret account they've got a nice little earner....

Osbourne's entire plan was a stock market house market boom right from the start... It's where you can cream the most fat off quickly for the wealthy.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I know take up has been lowest in the SE. One of the reasons has been that even with the help the costs are so high that securing a mortgage is too difficult.

I know one couple who got Help to Buy money and had that augmented (essentially doubled) by their parents. They could then secure a mortgage with this very large deposit.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The developers where always going to inflate prices to soak up the right to buy deposits on top, the simple truth is that house prices are unsustainably high but no government wants to be the bogyman so the charade continues."
.

The facts are the banks are still insolvent and Osbourne's done fuck all to solve the problem... In fact he's made it five times worse as now any house price crash will crash the banks... And we can't have that now can we

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Public housing policy is now designed by private developers.

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By *icolehertsCouple over a year ago

Milton Keynes

Keep the Red Flag Flying High Brothers

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I know take up has been lowest in the SE. One of the reasons has been that even with the help the costs are so high that securing a mortgage is too difficult.

I know one couple who got Help to Buy money and had that augmented (essentially doubled) by their parents. They could then secure a mortgage with this very large deposit.

And know people up here for whom it's been a godsend, who've used the scheme as intended and bought relatively modest homes that they couldn't otherwise have done because of the vicious cycle of paying high private sector rents and working in lower wage areas. I don't doubt it's being manipulated, but I don't think the data is there to say it's contributed to the boom, the numbers just aren't great enough. That's not to say I necessarily agree with it as a policy - but it should be properly evaluated, not just anecdotally.

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