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By *icky999 OP Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"What makes you think there is an amnesty? "
I asked should there be?
Armies have a ceasefire to collect injured from the battlefield.
Police have weapons amnesties.
Corporations are given an amnesty for being the first to come forward in a price fixing scam.
Im asking is it morally exceptable to do a deal with the enemy for a greater good?b |
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It was only returned because the thief realised that it is unsellable. It couldn't even be sold as scrap unless it was melted down and few have the kit to do that.
Why give amnesty to someone who would do the same again if they knew there was a way to profit from it? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What makes you think there is an amnesty?
I asked should there be?
Armies have a ceasefire to collect injured from the battlefield.
Police have weapons amnesties.
Corporations are given an amnesty for being the first to come forward in a price fixing scam.
Im asking is it morally exceptable to do a deal with the enemy for a greater good?b"
But this isn't comparable to any of those scenarios?  |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"I'm also confused by mention of a DNA test, there would be potentially so much cross contamination it would be pointless"
It wouldn't necessarily help in tracking down the thief/thieves but once they have suspects it could prove that they've handled it. |
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Returning something that has been stolen is not a criminal offence.
The police should do all they can to find whoever returned it as it is highly likely that that person will have information that would nr useful in finding the person who actually stole it in the first place.
If it turns out that the person who returned it is also the person who actually stole it then they should be prosecuted. The fact that they eventually returned it and their motivation for returning it could only be considered as mitigation when it came to their sentence upon conviction. |
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"Can't we just do a pregnancy test instead of a dna test and offer an international amnesty to whoever stole my garden canes? "
You can't let people get away with that Tina, next they'll be pinching your runners from right under your nose and claiming diplomatic immunity. Poor form. |
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By *icky999 OP Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"It was only returned because the thief realised that it is unsellable. It couldn't even be sold as scrap unless it was melted down and few have the kit to do that.
Why give amnesty to someone who would do the same again if they knew there was a way to profit from it?"
beacause they could just of easily of dumped it in a ditch an never been caught?
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"It was only returned because the thief realised that it is unsellable. It couldn't even be sold as scrap unless it was melted down and few have the kit to do that.
Why give amnesty to someone who would do the same again if they knew there was a way to profit from it?
beacause they could just of easily of dumped it in a ditch an never been caught?
"
But they did dump it. And dumping in a ditch is no guarantee of it never being found, ditches are important drainage systems and are regularly maintained. |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"I'm also confused by mention of a DNA test, there would be potentially so much cross contamination it would be pointless
dont test a stolen and recovered item for dna?
"
Not usually, unless there's a very specific reason to.
Forensics labs are overloaded with cases now. It's not like CSI in real life, where a team work one or two cases at a time. |
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By *icky999 OP Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"I'm also confused by mention of a DNA test, there would be potentially so much cross contamination it would be pointless
dont test a stolen and recovered item for dna?
Not usually, unless there's a very specific reason to.
Forensics labs are overloaded with cases
now. It's not like CSI in real life, where a team work one or two cases at a time."
Its a national story about the stolen statue of a murdered school girl. Sure they'll find the funds.
Its a moral question to inspire debate not about actual police procedures. |
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By *icky999 OP Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"It was only returned because the thief realised that it is unsellable. It couldn't even be sold as scrap unless it was melted down and few have the kit to do that.
Why give amnesty to someone who would do the same again if they knew there was a way to profit from it?
beacause they could just of easily of dumped it in a ditch an never been caught?
But they did dump it. And dumping in a ditch is no guarantee of it never being found, ditches are important drainage systems and are regularly maintained."
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By *icky999 OP Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"It was only returned because the thief realised that it is unsellable. It couldn't even be sold as scrap unless it was melted down and few have the kit to do that.
Why give amnesty to someone who would do the same again if they knew there was a way to profit from it?
beacause they could just of easily of dumped it in a ditch an never been caught?
But they did dump it. And dumping in a ditch is no guarantee of it never being found, ditches are important drainage systems and are regularly maintained."
It was left outide a house. I didnt mean specificaly a ditch. Just not handing it in as it were.
The question is about yhe morality of doing a deal with the enemy. |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"I'm also confused by mention of a DNA test, there would be potentially so much cross contamination it would be pointless
dont test a stolen and recovered item for dna?
Not usually, unless there's a very specific reason to.
Forensics labs are overloaded with cases
now. It's not like CSI in real life, where a team work one or two cases at a time.
Its a national story about the stolen statue of a murdered school girl. Sure they'll find the funds.
Its a moral question to inspire debate not about actual police procedures. "
Do you know how many more serious crimes than a theft they have to deal with? It's a sentimental item to some but sorry, it's not a national treasure. Hundreds of items with sentimental value are stolen every day.
Look up some crime statistics on murders, suspicious deaths, organised crime (including narcotics, firearms crime and sex trafficking), serious assault (including sexual assault), arson... Get back to us on how important a statue is. |
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"It was only returned because the thief realised that it is unsellable. It couldn't even be sold as scrap unless it was melted down and few have the kit to do that.
Why give amnesty to someone who would do the same again if they knew there was a way to profit from it?
beacause they could just of easily of dumped it in a ditch an never been caught?
But they did dump it. And dumping in a ditch is no guarantee of it never being found, ditches are important drainage systems and are regularly maintained.
It was left outide a house. I didnt mean specificaly a ditch. Just not handing it in as it were.
The question is about yhe morality of doing a deal with the enemy. "
Like most ethics questions it's a very grey area with few clear right and wrongs.
Should you give amnesty to someone willing to steal something paid for by charitable donation which is a representation of someone held very dear both locally and nationally? Someone who stole for profit and only returned/dumped the statue because there was no profit to be made and would probably have been pilloried by any fences/dealers for stealing and trying to sell a charity item. |
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By *icky999 OP Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"I'm also confused by mention of a DNA test, there would be potentially so much cross contamination it would be pointless
dont test a stolen and recovered item for dna?
Not usually, unless there's a very specific reason to.
Forensics labs are overloaded with cases
now. It's not like CSI in real life, where a team work one or two cases at a time.
Its a national story about the stolen statue of a murdered school girl. Sure they'll find the funds.
Its a moral question to inspire debate not about actual police procedures.
Do you know how many more serious crimes than a theft they have to deal with? It's a sentimental item to some but sorry, it's not a national treasure. Hundreds of items with sentimental value are stolen every day.
Look up some crime statistics on murders, suspicious deaths, organised crime (including narcotics, firearms crime and sex trafficking), serious assault (including sexual assault), arson... Get back to us on how important a statue is."
Its not a garden gnome its made the national media for a reason. Your confusing what the police will do with what they should do. |
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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago
Titz Towers, North Notts |
"Can't we just do a pregnancy test instead of a dna test and offer an international amnesty to whoever stole my garden canes?
You can't let people get away with that Tina, next they'll be pinching your runners from right under your nose and claiming diplomatic immunity. Poor form."
Yes, the only mitigating circumstance for the bounders responsible is that Zorro had been on telly that day  |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"I'm also confused by mention of a DNA test, there would be potentially so much cross contamination it would be pointless
dont test a stolen and recovered item for dna?
Not usually, unless there's a very specific reason to.
Forensics labs are overloaded with cases
now. It's not like CSI in real life, where a team work one or two cases at a time.
Its a national story about the stolen statue of a murdered school girl. Sure they'll find the funds.
Its a moral question to inspire debate not about actual police procedures.
Do you know how many more serious crimes than a theft they have to deal with? It's a sentimental item to some but sorry, it's not a national treasure. Hundreds of items with sentimental value are stolen every day.
Look up some crime statistics on murders, suspicious deaths, organised crime (including narcotics, firearms crime and sex trafficking), serious assault (including sexual assault), arson... Get back to us on how important a statue is.
Its not a garden gnome its made the national media for a reason. Your confusing what the police will do with what they should do. "
No, I'm not. You're confusing the theft of a statue with serious crime and you obviously have no idea how much forensic work costs or how strained the services are. It's not a garden gnome but it's also not the Crown jewels.
Ask yourself, would a murdered girl, her family and friends rather limited resources were used to find the person(s) who stole a statue or murderers currently free to kill again?
It's an item that is important to many people and has a degree of national significance but ultimately, in crime prioritisation terms, it's a relatively low value theft. |
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"I'm also confused by mention of a DNA test, there would be potentially so much cross contamination it would be pointless
dont test a stolen and recovered item for dna?
Not usually, unless there's a very specific reason to.
Forensics labs are overloaded with cases
now. It's not like CSI in real life, where a team work one or two cases at a time.
Its a national story about the stolen statue of a murdered school girl. Sure they'll find the funds.
Its a moral question to inspire debate not about actual police procedures. "
While its morally wrong it's not deed as a serious crime. The police are over stretched with limited budgets |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Should there be an amnesty with regards to any evidence from the return?"
Why does THAT^ require a fucking amnesty?...
So I totally couldn't stumble across it/something while out walking my dogs in case I might get prosecuted for returning it?..
You haven't thought that question through. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's a horrible crime to steal it, but are we even sure the thieves knew that's what it was? Was it deliberately targeted? I'm inclined to agree there are much bigger priorities for the police and CPS to be focusing on. |
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Ok let's use this scenario
A police force has £100 left in its budget and on that day a child is murdered and a report comes in that a statue was taken from a child's grave...a DNA test cost £100 which crime would you allocate the last £100 to? Of course the murder investigation |
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By *icky999 OP Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"I'm also confused by mention of a DNA test, there would be potentially so much cross contamination it would be pointless
dont test a stolen and recovered item for dna?
Not usually, unless there's a very specific reason to.
Forensics labs are overloaded with cases
now. It's not like CSI in real life, where a team work one or two cases at a time.
Its a national story about the stolen statue of a murdered school girl. Sure they'll find the funds.
Its a moral question to inspire debate not about actual police procedures.
Do you know how many more serious crimes than a theft they have to deal with? It's a sentimental item to some but sorry, it's not a national treasure. Hundreds of items with sentimental value are stolen every day.
Look up some crime statistics on murders, suspicious deaths, organised crime (including narcotics, firearms crime and sex trafficking), serious assault (including sexual assault), arson... Get back to us on how important a statue is.
Its not a garden gnome its made the national media for a reason. Your confusing what the police will do with what they should do.
No, I'm not. You're confusing the theft of a statue with serious crime and you obviously have no idea how much forensic work costs or how strained the services are. It's not a garden gnome but it's also not the Crown jewels.
Ask yourself, would a murdered girl, her family and friends rather limited resources were used to find the person(s) who stole a statue or murderers currently free to kill again?
It's an item that is important to many people and has a degree of national significance but ultimately, in crime prioritisation terms, it's a relatively low value theft."
its not important to me. im sure its important to the elected police commissioner though. |
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By *icky999 OP Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"Should there be an amnesty with regards to any evidence from the return?
Why does THAT^ require a fucking amnesty?...
to encourage the return?
So I totally couldn't stumble across it/something while out walking my dogs in case I might get prosecuted for returning it?.
You haven't thought that question through."
for the person who left it not for the person who handed it over to the police. |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"I'm also confused by mention of a DNA test, there would be potentially so much cross contamination it would be pointless
dont test a stolen and recovered item for dna?
Not usually, unless there's a very specific reason to.
Forensics labs are overloaded with cases
now. It's not like CSI in real life, where a team work one or two cases at a time.
Its a national story about the stolen statue of a murdered school girl. Sure they'll find the funds.
Its a moral question to inspire debate not about actual police procedures.
Do you know how many more serious crimes than a theft they have to deal with? It's a sentimental item to some but sorry, it's not a national treasure. Hundreds of items with sentimental value are stolen every day.
Look up some crime statistics on murders, suspicious deaths, organised crime (including narcotics, firearms crime and sex trafficking), serious assault (including sexual assault), arson... Get back to us on how important a statue is.
Its not a garden gnome its made the national media for a reason. Your confusing what the police will do with what they should do.
No, I'm not. You're confusing the theft of a statue with serious crime and you obviously have no idea how much forensic work costs or how strained the services are. It's not a garden gnome but it's also not the Crown jewels.
Ask yourself, would a murdered girl, her family and friends rather limited resources were used to find the person(s) who stole a statue or murderers currently free to kill again?
It's an item that is important to many people and has a degree of national significance but ultimately, in crime prioritisation terms, it's a relatively low value theft.
its not important to me. im sure its important to the elected police commissioner though."
Not more important than murders, serious assaults, narcotics and gun crime, sex trafficking, etc. etc.
You can see that even a very large theft doesn't compare to trying to identify and catch murderers? |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"Should there be an amnesty with regards to any evidence from the return?
Why does THAT^ require a fucking amnesty?...
to encourage the return?
So I totally couldn't stumble across it/something while out walking my dogs in case I might get prosecuted for returning it?.
You haven't thought that question through.
for the person who left it not for the person who handed it over to the police."
How would you expect them to know the person handing it over wasn't the thief? |
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By *icky999 OP Man
over a year ago
warrington |
You need to tell this to the chief constable not me. The press arent going to ask me why I didnt find the theif. Your making out they may stop a murder investigation. Im sure there a cop available who deals with neighbourhood crime. |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"You need to tell this to the chief constable not me. The press arent going to ask me why I didnt find the theif. Your making out they may stop a murder investigation. Im sure there a cop available who deals with neighbourhood crime. "
We're talking about a local police officer now? Last time I looked you had forensics services allocated to the matter. That's what might set a murder investigation back, giving a theft case a higher priority. As has been mentioned once or twice, resources are very limited and forensic services are expensive.
And trust me, the Chief Constable would rather be able to provide statistics to show a murderer had been caught, convicted and incarcerated instead of a thief, no matter how morally wrong the theft.
I'm pretty sure serious crime is morally wrong too and is a much greater concern to a larger proportion of the population than theft.
Anyway, I'm done repeating myself. If you can't get that there are serious crimes that rightly get a higher priority than a theft case, by now, I don't think you're going to.
And no, there should be no amnesty. |
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By *icky999 OP Man
over a year ago
warrington |
"You need to tell this to the chief constable not me. The press arent going to ask me why I didnt find the theif. Your making out they may stop a murder investigation. Im sure there a cop available who deals with neighbourhood crime.
We're talking about a local police officer now? Last time I looked you had forensics services allocated to the matter. That's what might set a murder investigation back, giving a theft case a higher priority. As has been mentioned once or twice, resources are very limited and forensic services are expensive.
And trust me, the Chief Constable would rather be able to provide statistics to show a murderer had been caught, convicted and incarcerated instead of a thief, no matter how morally wrong the theft.
I'm pretty sure serious crime is morally wrong too and is a much greater concern to a larger proportion of the population than theft.
Anyway, I'm done repeating myself. If you can't get that there are serious crimes that rightly get a higher priority than a theft case, by now, I don't think you're going to.
I do understand, youve been arguing with yourself for 2 hours. The police will obviously give higher priority to a case with media attention.
And no, there should be no amnesty."
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"I do understand, youve been arguing with yourself for 2 hours."
I've been writing your replies too? That's clever of me.
"The police will obviously give higher priority to a case with media attention."
Obviously? Yeah, whatever. If you genuinely believe that, you carry on.  |
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